Report: Federal Predator Drones Being Used on U.S. Citizens in America
- Posted on December 13, 2011 at 12:45pm by
Buck Sexton
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The aerial drones that have become a critical tool in Uncle Sam’s wars abroad are now in use for local law enforcement purposes, according to recent report, raising a host of legal and ethical questions as military and law enforcement functions increasingly blend together.
One case that has raised this issue to national attention is the drone-assisted capture of a rancher family suspected of rustling cattle in North Dakota this past summer.
According to a wire story on Stars and Stripes, in late June a sheriff went looking for six missing cows on the Brossart ranch, and three men brandishing rifles allegedly chased him off the property.
Fearing a standoff, the sheriff called in ”reinforcements from the state Highway Patrol, a regional SWAT team, a bomb squad, ambulances and deputy sheriffs from three other counties.”
On top of all that, the sheriff also called in an unarmed Predator B (MQ-9 Reaper) drone, which belonged to the border patrol. He said the men on the ranch were carrying rifles, so law enforcement stood down for the night.
The next morning, the predator circled 2 miles above and, with its highly advanced sensor system, ascertained that the ranchers were unarmed. Police then swooped in and made arrests.
This was the first time that the predator — an unmanned aerial vehicle that has become the global symbol of America’s “War on Terror” — has been used to assist local law enforcement apprehend a U.S. Citizen on U.S. soil.
But this predator drone incident is just the tip of the hellfire missile, so to speak.
Back in 2005, Predator drones were appropriated by Congress to assist Customs and Border Patrol to protect the U.S. borders with Canada and Mexico. There are at least eight active duty drones patrolling the skies over the U.S. Homeland, and since June 2011 they have been “loaned” to domestic law enforcement agencies in North Dakota over a dozen times, according to Stars and Stripes.
The FBI and DEA have also borrowed the CBP drones on numerous occasions, according to law enforcement officials, but no exact figures are available.
Here is a video clip showing a Predator drone in action over the U.S.- Mexico border:
Retired Air Force General Michael C. Kostelnik heads the office that supervises the drones, and he has stated in the past that Predators are flown “in many areas around the country, not only for federal operators, but also for state and local law enforcement and emergency responders in times of crisis.”
At a minimum, it would appear the usage of drones for local law enforcement could violate the Posse Comitatus Act, a federal law passed in 1878 that sought to separate the military and law enforcement functions unless a specific Congressional authorization is enacted.
But the expansion of the national security apparatus in the U.S. may have already outpaced some elements of Posse Comitatus. The Coast Guard, for example, falls under the enormous Department of Homeland Security bureaucracy, and neither one is therefore legally covered as part of the U.S. military under Posse Comitatus.
In addition, courts have affirmed for many years that outside aerial surveillance does not require a warrant. The justification from this is that if a civilian plane or helicopter passing overhead can see something in plain view, so can law enforcement. The DEA has made extensive use of this privacy loophole to find drug growing operations with low-flying aircraft.
Many law enforcement advocates point to the usefulness of the drones, and the possibility that they could provide police with critical and even life-saving information during hostage standoffs or disaster scenarios.
When police finally did swoop in on the Brossart ranch last June, they did find the six missing cows. Five of the Brossarts now face a total of eleven felony charges, including terrorizing a sheriff.
A victory for law enforcement, perhaps, but it opens many questions for Americans concerned about government’s technological intrusion into the lives of ordinary citizens.
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Comments (133)
junior1971
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:24pmIf you put all the stories together, you had better find common ground, regardless of your politics, social perspective, left-right rivalries. You are all the same to those who only follow orders. You are all the same to the drones infrared “unarmed” camera eye. I will say it again. Do you remember the tsa video warning the public about what to look for in a terrorist?! You all look alike to me.
Report Post »V-MAN MACE
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 3:03pmIf you don’t like government tyranny, then you just go find a country with more freedom than we have! You have a choice!
——-
sarcasm end.
Report Post »JRook
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 3:15pmAnd people are worried about wasteful government spending. Like this incident warranted using a $$$ million drone plane.
Report Post »4xeverything
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 4:25pmV-MAN MACE and JROOK, do you two get up and call each other in the morning to see what you’re going to say today? You know, like when you were teenage girls and you wanted to make sure your outfits wouldn’t clash? It would be nice for once to read anything from a lib that included an ounce of independent thought.
Report Post »V-MAN MACE
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 4:36pm4xeverything
I don’t know JRook.
I’m not a liberal, I’m a Conservative Libertarian, a REGISTERED Independent, and a Tea Party member.
Come again?
Report Post »Top_Down
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 4:36pmDid you see the video showing the Russian anti-Putin protests calling out UFO and pointing out something in the sky, what do you think it is ( http://url2it.com/klka )
This, I think, is hilarious.
Report Post »4xeverything
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:00pmWell my dear V-man, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. Please don’t get your panties in a bunch. You have nothing to prove to me, but do try to write your sarcasm a little more clearly.
Report Post »Mil-Dot
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:36pmLol. Yet another new guy coming on here thinking the V-man is a prog. Ha ha, now THAT’S funny!
Report Post »Ruler4You
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:02pmWell, if America has now been defined as a ‘Battlefield’ then that means Americans have the right to defend themselves against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
If you aren’t carrying now, you should be in the morning.
Report Post »Rayblue
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:41pmAll of you be quiet….. I thought I heard something buzzing the second story window.
Report Post »wbalzley
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:05amIn my view this is the official start of the Police State…when the police begin using MILITARY equipment in their operations. This opens the door to chip away at Posse Comitatus–for those who don’t know this is what prevents the government from using military force against its own citizens in times of peace.
It begins with borrowing surveillance equipment, then expands to include ASSAULT equipment…then PERSONNEL…then establishing permanent Military-Police relationships…Until the line between the police and military are blurred to the point that there is no difference…FASCISM 101…
Report Post »banjarmon
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 1:10amWHERE”S THe BEEF????
Report Post »Blazen420
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:21pmSome lazy rancher wasn’t taking care of his cattle and let them wander off and the police arrest the people who own the property where the cattle roamed too? That don’t make sense……. I‘d say they sheriff wanted this family in jail because he didn’t like there beliefs and was afraid of them.
Report Post »Wishkah
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:33pmhaving no data whatsoever sure doesn’t stop you from making outlandish statements… wtg
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 3:40pmSome people are just born stupid and some just say stupid things. Which are you Blazen?
Report Post »c0mm0nsense
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 4:22pmI think blazen read the article and maybe knows more about the missing cows then the article tells. The question is did they find the cows? If so im all for these drones.
Report Post »c0mm0nsense
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 4:24pmfunny how the name callers become the name.
Report Post »jungle J
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:41pmwhack.
Report Post »gaijinsamurai
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:53pmDid you pass high school English class Blazen?
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:44pmState police have used Cessna & other prop driven planes for speed enforcement along interstate in the 70s before gas prices made it unfeasible.
If you can see it with a piper cub, then why would it be worse to see it with an UAV?
The owners don’t own the air space above their property. They should own some of it, just not all the way up.
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:47pmBlazen has a valid hypothesis. He should have written more as one is all.
I don’t know about the sheriff not liking the group of people at that farm/ranch, but if they were all that bad, we would be hearing about a search for a missing sheriff.
The owner of the cattle might not be lazy. A windstorm or something might have broken a fence. Stuff like that happens.
Report Post »hud
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 5:07pmHey, you think the cows had something to do with the METH operation he was running.
Report Post »hud
Posted on December 15, 2011 at 5:11pmI’m positive the sheriff, and other law enforcement involved were just out to replenish their depleted meth stashes, for personal use only.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:11pmFolks, we are closer to being Russia (USSR) than we are America… sad. Very sad indeed.
Report Post »Oldphoto678
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:36pmOh grow-up CESSNA152. The government has always done exactly what it’s doing now, only now they have drones to do it better. I know, you‘d like to believe that all these things didn’t happen back in the imaginary past that you and your ilk have dreamed up. Well guess what, J Edgar would tell you different. Besides the Constitution that you say you want so desperately to get back to doesn‘t give you any right to privicy if you’re out in plain sight. So go hide in your closet… ******!
Report Post »Nathaniel Horn
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:42pmWith our technology we’re going to make one hellofa great Evil Empire! All we need now is an emergency, (in the works) a seemingly beneficent yet evil dictator, (duh) and a big and really scary enemy. Can you say global Caliphate?! If we don’t soon come back to God and Constitution and ask forgiveness for our amazing arrogance and stupidity, we’re finished. But not before we take most of the rest of the world out with us. End times perhaps? A giant, Godless child with really, really big guns. I’m sure it will all end well…
Report Post »V-MAN MACE
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 3:02pmYea you shut up how dare you not like big brother!
You’re a racist!…or something…
Report Post »hidden_lion
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 3:07pmOld photo-
Report Post »The reaper can carry 500lb bombs as well as hellfire missles. Depending on the sensor array it can see you inside your closet. Military assets should not and are not legal for civilian law enforcement. Since they are blurring the lines and dismantling the right to trial it should be of concern to every american, not just the ones who wish to keep their privacy.
V-MAN MACE
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 4:33pmI say if they can blur the lines between military and police, then we ought to- as citizens- blur the lines bewteen military and citizens.
Get my drift?
Start your own militias. Now.
Start off with a Neighborhood Watch, then expand it from there.
Report Post »gaijinsamurai
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 5:57pmLion,
Report Post »Blackhawk helos have been used by police departments for years.
hidden_lion
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:46pmGajinSamurai-
Report Post »Standard blackhawk helicopter is not different than many civilian helicopters, but if they were using the specops version with all the sensors and/or armaments than it would be a violation. State law enforcement using federal military assets is bad. Don‘t know if you remember in the 90’s the ATF was trying to purchase several OV-10 Bronco’s. Once word got out it was shut down, because the planes still had mountings for rockets, machine gun, etc…Law enforcement has no business with this kind of gear and capability. As all the recent Swat team murder incidents clearly demonstrate.
West Coast Patriot
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:57pmOldphoto, Yes, you are right to a degree. Progressives have been chipping away at the Constitution for a century now and to most, who have not actually sat down and read the Constitution, do not know any different. “When the people fear the government their is tyranny, when the government fears the people, there is Liberty.” Thomas Jefferson.
Report Post »korbin
Posted on December 14, 2011 at 2:33am@oldphoto, your a dork. Go buy a large quantity of ammo I think your Government says 500 rds is a cache, don’t forget a pair of night vision, and definitely make sure to whether proof the ammo and buy 7 cases of mre’s or more. You too can be on the Homeland insecurity FBI watch list. This sh i t is real, quit living in a progressive dream land.
Report Post »PApeacemaker
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:11pmGood Bye America…..You were a beautiful thing while you lasted. I think i’d rather commit suicide then live in the Police State which is coming our way in the next few years. As soon as the riots start that will be it they will declare martial law, suspend the Constitution & we will be no better off then the Soviet Union was after World War 2. It might be worth staying alive & fighting the Tyrants as long as a good chunk of our military resists the Tyrants in the Government…but if they have the full power of the US military it would be one hell of a hard struggle esp. if they invite other countries in to help control the population. Which I gurantee they would do because US soldiers would have a hard time shooting American citizens, but Mexican, Canadian & Russian soldiers could careless about us. Dark times may be ahead America so brace yourselves.
Report Post »Rightallalong
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 10:02pmIts a bit old news but back in 2009 the NLE 2009 we had foreign troops participate. Good to teach them how to treat those bad ol’ homegrown American terrorist that just want to be left alone to take care of themselves. Certainly can’t have that now here in the land of the cowards and home of the slaves.
Report Post »This_Individual
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:06pmRuh roh.
Report Post »FlamingFartSyndrome
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:13pmRon Paul or we will never be free
Report Post »biohazard23
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:05pmThat explains the funny looking “traffic planes” over I-4…….
Report Post »Blazen420
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:02pmThey’d feel different about it if it were private citizens spying in on them………….
Report Post »Cuthalu
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:21pmOh they do, trust me. In some states like Illinois where I live it is illegal to video tape police in public. Too many times them being caught on tape breaking the law, beating people up or violating the rights of people for them to be confortable with it ever being recorded. Their excuse, it is putting “possible” future police who “might” or “maybe” will be undercover, sometime in the future at risk.
No. They just don’t want to be held accountable if they do something wrong because without a video recording of them doing something wrong, it will be your word against theirs in a court of law. And we all know the outcome there, don’t we?
Report Post »gaijinsamurai
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:01pmThe reason it is illegal to film is because people edit the video and put it up on the internet trying to make the police look as bad as possible. Most modern PD’s have dash cams and many have a camera that is worn on the head or uniform. Cameras save more LE careers than they kill.
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:02pmOtherwise known as the ‘Federalization’ of Local Law Enforcement:
“The Pentagon Is Offering Free Military Hardware To Every Police Department In The US
Robert Johnson
Dec. 5, 2011, 11:09 AM
The U.S. military has some of the most advanced killing equipment in the world that allows it to invade almost wherever it likes at will.
We produce so much military equipment that inventories of military robots, M-16 assault rifles, helicopters, armored vehicles, and grenade launchers eventually start to pile up and it turns out a lot of these weapons are going straight to American police forces to be used against US citizens.
Benjamin Carlson at The Daily reports on a little known endeavor called the “1033 Program” that gave more than $500 million of military gear to U.S. police forces in 2011 alone.”
Report Post »http://www.businessinsider.com/program-1033-military-equipment-police-2011-12
bboatmanable
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:24pmWhat are you talking about????? Military robots……are you serious! I’ve been in the military for 10 years now, and have YET to see a “military robot.”
Report Post »MetalPatriot
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 9:54pm@BBoatmanable
Respectfully, you must be aware of anything using remote/wireless is considered “robotic”. A drone may be considered robotic, the M-16 on wheels is considered one. If you think about it, the Air Force is already training “pilots” to “fly” unmanned jet aircraft. That could also be considered robotic. (military channel stuff, i don’t have any special knowledge).
It sounded like he was suggesting “robot men” or something. That’s not for 12-15 yrs from now…lol!
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:01pmDon’t get too paranoid. Remember wanting drones patrolling the border? Well they are just the wrong border.
If the drones are run by the CBP, this is not a violation of Posse Comitatus. CBP is a law enforcement agency not the military.
Report Post »hidden_lion
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 3:12pmThe drones are owned and operated by the US Air Force. The reaper is a combat drone, with more munitions capability than the predator drones.
Report Post »hidden_lion
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 3:14pmThe article says border patrol owns them, but not sure why they would be using anything other than the predator, unless the article screwed up on the model.
Report Post »uzi4u2
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 6:01pmIf these are reapers, then it’s the USAF that is controlling them, not the police. I KNEW when they said they would use these things on the board it wouldn’t take long before they used them elsewhere. What’s next, arm them and use them against speeders out on I-70? After all it could be a safety/security problem if the police say you ran from them, so you obviously are either a crimenal or terrorist or both, so light ‘em up, right?
Report Post »last frontier
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:57pmSoon it will be the county making sure you have a permit for that Garage sale or outdoor barbecue, things like this my friends is why they need to raise our taxes the price of the federal toybox has way gone up.
Report Post »Cuthalu
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:15pmAlso don’t forget that police departments and other government agencies prey upon citizens to fill their coffers. I think many or all of us know full well departments have to meet certian quotas no matter how many times law enforcement “claims” they are not trying to generate income by those means. I am not dissing police, I am dissing their absurb policies of quotas law enforcement and other government agencies.
And people need to put a stop to them enacting ridiculus, petty laws that are designed for one purpose only, wealth generation.
Report Post »whosafraidofspookydude1
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 3:07pmin central Fl the counties are collecting for garage sales and you pay extra loot for garbage hell some fd wont put out fire if you don’t have fire fee paid up….but if you can’t speak english or even belong here legally you get ebt card in taxpayers dollar….just saying™
Report Post »Freedomtothink
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:54pmIt‘s difficult to understand why they can see three unarmed guys chasing six cows but they can’t see hundreds of armed illegal drug transporters or over twelve million people crossing the border illegally. I guess the moral of the story is you’re better off transporting drugs and crossing the border illegally than you are stealing some cows.
Report Post »LLATPOH
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:53pmI‘d have to say that if the sheriff’s office didn’t own the drone, it cannot be used without congressional approval, just like a state trooper can’t go down to the armory and pick up an M1A1 Abrams for traffic stops.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 3:47pmWhere oh where have my little brains gone, where oh where can they be.
Ah the sheriff called the Border Patrol, they owned the drone. All he needs is approval from the border patrol, it is their call to utilize the drone. Where do you get the idea you need congressional approval?
Report Post »Cuthalu
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:50pmSo this sherriff illegally goes onto someone’s private property to look for some cattle, without a search warrant, the people on the property “brandish weapons” to get him to leave so he runs off with his tail between his legs and gets all these other law enforcement as well as a predator drone to desend on them, that we are suppose to overlook the fact the sherriff had NO warrant?
I suppose it would be all fine what went on …if we remove due process, rule of law, innocent until proven guilty and do away with illegal search and seizure. Why even bother stopping the progressives from wanting to dismantle to bill of rights and consitution if many americans are EAGER to do all the work for progressives, willinging and cheering for it? What a sad and pathetic state this country is in.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:08pmRead the Stars & Stripes article. He had a warrant.
Report Post »handsoffmystuff
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:46pmSo why are these things being used by the border patrol? Who, exactly is being prevented from crossing the border? Anyone … anyone?
Report Post »PATRIOTGRUNT
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:39pm@ HANDSOFFMYSTUFF : Yea , you and I .
Report Post »PossumRoadkill
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:45pmIs anyone surprised by this? The radicals (big government) on both sides are marching us towards a prison planet. How long will it be until this is a daily occurrence ? Drones flying over our cities and towns “to protect us” from the bad guys? We will see this in the near future unless we stand together and stand up against BIG GOVERNMENT.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:09pmHow long? I assume before next election or after the next BIG government progressive gets in office. How do we reverse this course because it really sucks!
Report Post »mrsalvage2
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:44pmSWAT Teams against Amish selling Whole Raw Milk
Reaper Drones rescue 6 wayward Cows
Lions, Tigers, and Bears Oh My! What unmitigated madness and insanity, becasue people might have guns.
They are Ranchers, they most certainly have guns!
Oh they believe they are Sovereign Citizens so we need…. Holy Crap! Since when did we FEAR beliefs of a family to cancel Posse Comatatus? (yeah Waco)
DHS aramble Predator B which is really a “Reaper” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predator_B)
Report Post »The velvet Glove is already off!
The Radical Right Wing would have never evolved and grown if the Progressives had not reconstructed America under their secret Communist agendas while holding up U.S. Supreme Court Rulings, the Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Magna Carta as the fundamental Law of America.
This terrorism of the Lawyer and Intellegencia Aristocracies is the cause of normal people being called “Crazies”, because they have detected the CFR and TC policies running their lives into the ground, exporting their Jobs and those of their Children, while the Officials of Government take an Oath to uphold the Constitution.
Those who have detected this fraud and switched into Cognitive Dissonance have been the Canaries in the Coal Mine. Now, they will all be killed by either Hellfire Missiles (explained as Meth Lab Explosions) or hauled off to the FEMA camp under the NDAA.
Hello Sleep away camps. even Allan West is covering this up. otherwi
TheWholeTruth
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:44pmOld News
Report Post »blaaaaackwoman
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:39pmThey’ve been used for years to detect pot farms. Get used to it. There are a lot of toys for kids with cameras being marketed as spy toys. Imagine if this were a Muslim country using drones.
Report Post »PossumRoadkill
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:50pmSo you see no problem with this? How about when they point the infrared cameras at your house? How about when they eavesdrop on your conversations, email, chats, phone calls? Go on, stick your head a little deeper in the sand.
Report Post »IntegrityFirst
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:37pmAt a minimum, it would appear the usage of drones for local law enforcement could violate the Posse Comitatus Act, a federal law passed in 1878 that sought to separate the military and law enforcement functions unless a specific Congressional authorization is enacted.
REALLY?! NO?! YOU THINK!
Report Post »J.C. McGlynn
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:36pmDoes anyone know how to shut down the next story pop-up? It is truly irritating.
Report Post »junior1971
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 2:16pmx
Report Post »lisa2994
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:35pmThis does disturb me..
Report Post »ChiefGeorge
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:35pmStart with cattle rustlers then move onto other uses.
Report Post »IntegrityFirst
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:58pmOkay, I would suggest then we start using anything that is anti-Constitutional, on you. I suggest next we force you to house soldiers, that is of course, after we illegally search your house. Then we tell you who to vote for, or better yet, remove your right to vote. We’ll take all your guns (likely you don’t have any in the first place). Then we tell you exactly what to say, and when to say it, effectively removing your right to free speech.
How’s that? Mr. chief?
Report Post »J.C. McGlynn
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:32pmJanet Napalitano and the Gestapo at work.
Report Post »Reload
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 4:06pmHalt!!!
Hammerzeit!!!!!
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 7:57pmThe people on the farm do sound squirrelly. Read the last few paragraphs of the link.
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/predator-drone-spy-planes-used-in-civilian-arrests-1.163154
They had previous, unspecified run-ins with the law. Not sure what law was broken or if there should have been a law in the 1st place.
They have a misdemeanor charge with the cattle. I assume that was because they were going to take them because they had wandered.
Maybe a better way to handle it was to call the neighbor & tell him to get the cattle. This would have engendered some good will, which is nice if you want to law enforcement problems. The second call would be get the cattle off our land or we sue for damages.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:31pmSocialism… has only Two flavors… COMMUNISM & FASCISM!
Report Post »MaxineH20Sux
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 1:30pmIs tat what I heard outside my window last night?!?!
Report Post »jackbauer
Posted on December 13, 2011 at 11:56pmBe verry, verry, quite, I tink I heard a predator drone! I did! I did!
I guess anything is fair game now that Congress has deemed the USA a battle field. Next thing you know Janet Incompenano will be using drones to search for prepper food stashes.
“Boys, don’t get any ideas. I got two words for you, predator drones,” Barrack Hussein Obama
Report Post »