Education

Report: School Teachers Paid More Than Their Fair Share

  • Study by the American Enterprise Institute and The Heritage Foundation factors in measures in addition to wages (i.e., fringe benefits), compares public school teachers with private, non-teacher workers of similar education and experience and finds teachers make more.
  • Authors equate this to 52 percent more in wages costing up to $120 billion per year.
  • American Federation Of Teachers responds saying the assertions made in the study are of poor reasoning and should get a “flunking grade.”

A new study produced by the American Enterprise Institute and The Heritage Foundation reports that when you compare public school teachers to private-sector, non-teacher workers with similar educational backgrounds and work experience using standard comparison techniques, the two groups come in about equal.

But Hertiage’s Jason Richwine, who co-authored the report with AEI resident scholar Andrew Biggs, seems to think that where public school teachers are involved, more analytics should come into play in evaluating what their compensation really is. This includes comparing not only wages but benefits and what the authors call “fringe benefits.” When you weigh all the factors that Richwine and Biggs take into account comparing public school teachers and non-teacher private workers, teachers win making 52 percent more. The report authors equate this to $120 billion overcharged to tax payers each year.

Report Says Teachers Are Overpaid

Here are several highlights from Richwine and Biggs’ report:

  • Public school teachers earn less wages compared to non-teachers for the similar level of education they have received.
  • There is no wage gap between the two groups when they are matched on an objective measure of cognitive ability rather than on years of education.
  • Public school teachers earn more than private school teachers, when both schools compared are secular and follow the standard curriculum.
  • Workers who switch from non-teaching jobs to teaching get a pay raise of about 9 percent. Teachers who switch to non-teacher jobs have decreased wages by 3 percent.

And what of the “fringe benefits”? According to the report, public school teachers receive better pensions and more generous retiree health care (which is excluded from Bureau of Labor Statistics and therefore overlooked making health care seem more modest, the authors write) compared to non-teachers at a similar level. The  report also notes higher job security for public school teachers. The report authors state “we find that job security for typical teachers is worth about an extra 1 percent of wages, rising to 8.6 percent when considering that extra job security protects a premium paid in terms of salaries and benefits.” Public school teachers have a lower unemployment rate compared to private workers, according to the report.

Report Says Teachers Are Overpaid

Report Says Teachers Are Overpaid

With the teaching profession being “crucial to America’s society and economy,” the report states that teachers should be paid neither under nor over the market rate. US News reports Biggs saying at a briefing that their findings don’t suggest we should cut teacher salaries but perhaps other things:

“Does this mean we should go out and arbitrarily cut teacher salaries? No,” he said. But reducing benefits or pay won’t cause a mass exodus from the profession, he argued. “People worry that if you reduce these benefits at all, [then] all the teachers are going to quit. You only get high quit rates if they’re being paid below market value.”

He said schools should focus on setting pay to reward the best teachers. “The question is how should your pay structures be set so that you’re rewarding the teachers you want?”

The American Federation Of Teachers’s statement responding to the report, according to NPR, calls the analytics of the report “ridiculous” and in some cases “pure fiction”:

This report contains a number of ridiculous assertions, such as arbitrarily assigning 8.6 percent as a “job security premium” teachers supposedly enjoy. This “job security premium” is pure fiction, given the 278,000 public education jobs that have been lost during this recession. There’s no basis for this claim—it‘s simply a placeholder used to lead to AEI’s conclusion. In our business, such reasoning would get a flunking grade.

The truth—backed by reputable research—is that few, if any, workers subsidize their professions like teachers. America’s teachers spend hundreds of dollars per year on classroom supplies for their students and work longer hours than their peers in other nations, including late afternoons, evenings and weekends grading papers, preparing lesson plans, talking with students and their parents, and other school-related work.

Politico reported a response by Michelle Rhee, a advocate against teacher’s unions, as saying that she doesn’t not agree that teachers are overpaid. In her statement, she says that moving money from administration to increase teachers’ salaries actually saw an improvement in student learning.

Comments (121)

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  • Kinnison
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 10:10am

    So, it is not only Democrats who lie with statistics. The Heritage Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute are full of crap on this issue. Teachers’ salaries vary greatly across the nation, set by states and/or local school district contracts. I live and taught in the Idaho Panhandle for 16 years, primarily teaching AP U.S. History to high school students. I have a Masters’ degree in my field and the equivalent of another in post-Masters graduate credits. The last year I taught I made $51,000. Beginning teachers in this state make about $27,500, and if they have a family they can qualify for food stamps. Many of us who teach in the so-called “fly-over states” are neither registered Democrats nor liberal NEA supporters. I am a retired lieutenant colonel of Marines and a Conservative. Guess how excited I am now about contributing any campaign money to Republican causes after this hatchet job on all teachers? Again, I am a Conservative and an Historian, not a Republican… As John Nance Garner, FDR’s 2nd VP, once said, and what this “study” proves, is that “there ain‘t a nickel’s worth of difference between the Republicans and the Democrats”. You can tell if politicians are lying because their lips move.

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    • JRook
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 10:19am

      So this is the work of the Heritage Foundation that Rush always promotes and quotes on his show. As they say you can get a lawyer to argue anything for a price and I guess you can get a “researcher” to research and write any findings you want for a price. Thanks for the BS Koch brothers.

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    • dmerwin
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 10:56am

      Thank you for your service. I must point out that the figures you cite are for working the equivalent of 7-8 months a year. If you had the average of 2-4 weeks of leave that the other occupations normally can use you might have a point. Where I am, Christmas break is about 1.5 weeks, spring break 1 week school ends in early June and restarts in late August. And finally, the highest paid teachers in this school district don’t teach but hold some admin job.

      Report Post » dmerwin  
    • Carlinpa
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 11:41am

      You are a prime example of why we need teacher evaluations and merit pay. You cited the “Pay” in your rebuttal , however. if you had READ, “This includes comparing –>not only wages<— but benefits and what the authors call “fringe benefits.” When you weigh all the factors that Richwine and Biggs take into account comparing public school teachers and non-teacher private workers, teachers win making 52 percent more." You would have understood this story and survey

      If I were you, I would consider filing a law suit against the school you graduated from, because it seems you have been a victim of fraud.

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    • AJAYW
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 11:52am

      Yes, many of you who teach shouldn’t be teachers. Maybe you should try working

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    • JennyZ
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 12:01pm

      Of course compensation varies throughout the country, as the average Minneapolis teacher’s package is $102,000. Your education is exceptional among teachers. All of these variables were factored in. Because our local schools teach so poorly, I homeschool my children, but still pay the teachers. (This week we are studying about variables in scientific experiments.)

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    • Jaycen
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 12:34pm

      Those poor teachers sometimes pay for their own supplies? Not at my school. We pay the some of the highest tax rates in our district, and the school still begs for supplies every year. Where’s the money going? If it’s not teacher salaries, then what about administrators?

      Our PTO bought some of the smart boards our teachers use. We buy a lot of the other things you’d assume the district pays for (carpet in some cases).

      Anyone see Stossel’s report over the weekend called “Stupid in America”? He showed an example of a wharehouse full of supplies that didn’t make it to a district due to incompetent, bloated bureaucracy. It makes me wonder how much of that happens in our district.

      Charter schools and choice. Free markets are the only way to solve the “education problem”. Central planning and equivocating over percentages is douche-baggery.

      Report Post » Jaycen  
    • baldartist
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 12:41pm

      @ Demerwin – Tour figures are wrong. The schedule you list is when the kids are in school, not when the teachers are working. Teachers work at least 10 months out of the year. Understandable the starting pay for teachers in this comment was 27k. That would mean if they worked for 12 months they should make about 32k. As you do not get paid for the time off. Thats is still a low wage to raise a family on. So sure you could try to get an additional job during the summer, which for a teacher is really only about a 6 weeks, but jobs that hire on hat basis are only going to make you around minimum wage.

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    • Stoic one
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 2:06pm

      KINNISON

      I am not going to get into the semantics of pay. Here in Ohio this is the problem: the state is broke, the local gov’t is broke, the schools ask for more money through levies, the GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES, all of them cry they are not paid enough. REALLY????? I in the private sector did not receive a raise for nearly ten years, then two years ago the company was sold and scales down 50%.
      I never see government cut/ scale back….reallocation and smoke and mirrors is what I see. Three years ago nearly all of the levies in my county & municipality FAILED…MY next property tax bill—a 25% increase in value while the housing market crashes!!!

      You get NO SYMPATHY FROM ME– you government employee! Hrumph

      Report Post » Stoic one  
    • Kinnison
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 2:26pm

      Guys, every state I know of has continuing education recertification requirements for their teachers. That means we don’t “get 2-3 months off” every summer, it means that we are paying to go to the university nearest us to take graduate courses instead of getting paid for teaching, not sunning at the pool. And those long Christmas and Easter breaks you talk about, at least for me, were used to correct research papers for my students. Yeah, I was a government employee. I was also a government employee for the 22 years I spent in uniform—almost 9 years of which I spent outside the U.S., mostly getting shot at. Does that make me a deadbeat? I don’t know what your problem with teachers is, but you had better have some concrete examples to use, because there are a bunch of us that take our jobs very seriously and who work our butts off to give kids the best possible education we can. Can we do better? Oh yeah. We spend more per capita on education than any country in the world and we should be doing a better job. Fire about 3/4 of the non-teaching administrative bureaucrats, make it easier to fire those bad apples that are doing a lousy job in the classroom and don’t spend their nights, weekends and “vacations” working for their kids, and remove NCLB—the feds have no business dictating what local school districts do—and then stand back and see what we can do. Oh, and get rid of the Department of Education if you want to help us out in actually teaching kids

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    • bmwrider
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 8:13pm

      Isn’t this Heritage/AEI standard operating procedure? Release a report that is proven as BS in a couple of days, get the rightwing media talking about it, and ignore it after its proven wrong?

      Remember the heritage report that said the Ryan bill would lower unemployment to 2%?

      Report Post » bmwrider  
    • CraftyandSly1
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 8:37pm

      Mr. Kinnison, your commentary only further enhances this article’s quite valid points, and, further, exposes your commentary as purposely fraudulent. Why? Because you poorly attempted to rigidly ignore the entire crux of the story‘s main emphasis on employee BENEFITS PLUS SALARIES by mentioning only a small part a teacher’s earned salary. No where do you mention the huge costs to the taxpayer’s when including *MATCHING* RETIREMENT PLANS, HEALTH INSURANCE PLANS, GROUP LIFE INSURANCE, GROUP SHORT/LONG TERM DISABILITY and other benefits.

      Furthermore, as a ten year veteran of a high school board whose school system is the second largest in my state, I am perplexed to read that you claim to be a ‘Conservative’ when in reality you have admittedly lived your entire working life on the government dole – from the military to a public school and, now, into retirement. No conservative I know ever showed such a pathetic expectation of even more taxpayer money as you have indicated in your commentary. Shame on you.

      As an admitted, retired colonel you are pulling down a cool $5,000 in taxpayer money, per month, in military ‘retirement’ alone. This doesn’t even include the $3-4,000 in taxpayer money per month you are pulling down for your admitted 20+ years as a teacher. Thus, your taxpayer RETIREMENT is paying you close to $10,000 per month, and you are still complaining.

      Why am I not surprised?

      Report Post » CraftyandSly1  
    • CraftyandSly1
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 8:52pm

      Mr. Kinnison,

      A teacher works only 180 days per year. That’s it. For you and others, here, to make the false claim that they work 10 months out of a school year is preposterous. Teachers are contracted by their respective school districts, and all teachers have each and every weekend, major holidays, and sick days off. Not only that, but each school district pays for the 3 days, each summer, a teachers is supposed to sit through for completing their state mandatory, continuing education credits. All professionals are required to pass state mandated, continuing education credits – regardless their profession.

      So, let’s add up the actual time worked – 180 days amounts to an equivalent of six months – THAT’S IT, Mr. Kinnison. Which means that all public school teachers work LESS than 1/2 a calendar year, as per their union contracts. After all, we all know there are 365 days in a year, and when one takes away the 180 days a public school teacher is *supposed* to teach (they rarely complete 180 days due to a wide variety of reasons – but suffice it to say that each and every school district must employ substitute teachers to make up for the days these contracted, full-time teachers have missed).

      So, let’s agree to stop pulling the wool over the eyes of the public, Mr. Kinnison. The NCLB nationalized test scores prove that the current system isn’t working, and these teachers are asking for even MORE taxpayer money for their well-below average performances. Enough is

      Report Post » CraftyandSly1  
    • CraftyandSly1
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:01pm

      Well, for some odd reason my last sentences in each of the last two paragraphs didn’t post – they should have read:

      2nd paragraph, “and when one takes away the 180 days a public school teacher is *supposed* to teach (they rarely complete 180 days due to a wide variety of reasons – but suffice it to say that each and every school district must employ substitute teachers to make up for the days these contracted, full-time teachers have missed), that leaves 185 days where a teacher is free to do whatever they wish, to include earning income elsewhere (many do so by private tutoring).”

      3rd paragraph, “Enough is enough. For as Barack Obama opined, “”You can‘t defend a status quo when you’ve got 2,000 schools across the country that are dropout factories.” I couldn’t agree more.

      Report Post » CraftyandSly1  
    • MinorityRightsAdvocate
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:34pm

      Kinnison,
      I find it hard to believe you are really a retired LCOL, because if you were you’d better know the pathetic pay we offer young marines, who face much more demanding work and danger.
      2011 pay, E-1 base is about 18K and O-1 about 33K. Think about how much more we demand of our military for this work, and there is NO tenure, no summer break with all kinds of breaks during the school year.
      I assume you have a history degree, an education that seriously limits options, mostly to teaching, that was YOUR choice.
      I also have a masters, and after 10 years I felt lucky to find a job with base pay under 60K, and that is with an Engineering Degree, and business masters, with Nuclear training. No summer breaks, and 50 plus hour weeks and a horrible commute.
      Teachers in the government schools have decent deal, as evidenced by the lack of openings. If the pay was so horrible, they’d have a shortage of applicants, supply and demand.
      In contrast I know of some private church school teachers that really have low pay, and do much more than the government school teachers, to include coaching, bus driving and even administration. They don’t whine about the pay, they truly serve and enjoy the work, knowing that more pay means no school because the parents are not rich and they have to compete with free government schools.
      Stop your whining, I can’t believe a LCOL marine would whine like that.

      Report Post » MinorityRightsAdvocate  
    • 1389AD
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:39pm

      It is not about partisan politics, it is all about simple math.

      We have completely run out of other people’s money to pay teachers and other government employees.

      The “gods of the copybook headings” don’t care whether you like it or not, but it’s a fact, Jack. The piggy bank is empty, there are no coins in the sofa crevices, the last of the blood has been squeezed out of the turnip, and that‘s all there is and there ain’t no more.

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    • TexasKnight
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 10:01pm

      Thank you very much for your service.
      Please note the article said average. They are not lying, or using misinformation.
      The fact that your distict started at 27,500 is averaged out by mine where the starting pay is in the low 60ks. Teachers topping out at 105k.
      I can attest that most of the teachers in our district do not take work home. They work 190 days a year, by contract.
      Those classes your are talking about help many of them get a masters degree and the 5k bonus that goes with it.
      Are teachers overpaid? In our district yes. In yours, no way.
      Want more money? May I suggest you look at school districts in W.PA.

      Report Post » TexasKnight  
    • jlwb
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 11:21pm

      1st, thank you for your sevice! I have 2 sons who serve and with their may tours have been in harms way.
      You are in a Red area. We live in a liberal town. I’m an RN with a BSN and BS in zoology. I now tutor math and science. I wish our teachers were as hard working as you! We have one really good math teacher in our High School, one that is OK, and 2 who suck! I get my little ones up and running with math. Not unusual for them to get skipped a year…….then they get to High School and get one of the bad teachers……..and they come back to me! Good for my pocket book, sad for the students that do not have the safety net of a tutor! Those poor students will always hate math!
      Our 4th graders do great in the TIMSS (The International Math and Science Survey), or 8th graders score middle of the pack. Our 12 graders out scored Cyprus and South Africa a few years ago. Yea :-(
      Those math teachers…..our teachers went on strike this fall so their salaries were posted. $70 and $75 thousand for 180 days a year. The science teacher (who I saw, personally, drive away from the school 5 minutes after school ended when I picked up my sons) who told us at open house “don’t bother to call me, e-mail me, or write me. I’m too busy to answer” gets $85,000. He is also the one that sent our sons home with an “important” science article they had to outline! The artic was melting and the sea level was going to go up 200 feet.

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    • pacomj60
      Posted on November 4, 2011 at 8:24am

      I agree with you Classic BS! I have been a Superintendent twice and the comparison simply misses the point. Public schools must take any student entering its doors while nonpublic schools pick and choose. If the parents have the money their children come from an enriched environment thus they don’t take the home or neighborhood environment into the classroom.
      Frankly, public school teachers are underpaid for the work they do. Let me remind all that outside of the US teachers are highly respected and receive appropriate compensation. The latest example of this is the national news report last night on Shanghai China. Note the respect and pay. Also note the academic result.
      Clearly China isn’t the best comparison as they are a single culture, however Canada is very much like the US and it is number 5 in academic performance on the international assessments. The point is that our teachers are hammered by this type of comparison as it does not assess climate or challenge.
      This same convoluted logic as is the current discussion on military benefits. I served 3 decades and commanded 5 units, served in 2 wars and nothing in civilian life compares. Today’s teachers in some ways are under fire just as is my daughter in Afghanistan with one huge difference she is facing rockets, riffles, and suicide bombers to name a few – she can come back in a body bag. Teachers burn out.
      So be careful of comparisons, because I am confident teachers will leave if stupidity r

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  • Copper Catfish
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 10:06am

    What do they consider a “fair share” for someone with 50 semester hours beyond a Master’s Degree and 29 years of experience? $30,000?

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    • THERepublic
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 11:03am

      I challenge that rate of pay.

      Report Post » THERepublic  
    • AJAYW
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 11:54am

      I challenge that rate as well and just come out and call you a LIAR

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    • calvet53
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 3:39pm

      I am surrounded by teachers in my family as well as my friends. Wife works in Admin. Mothe in law teaches in the university, sister in law teaches elementary, another is assistant principal. They work hard but make good $$ as well compared to private sector. My buddy has a PHd, teaches 1st and 2nd grade reading and makes $80K per year. Yes, she has 2 months off per year and she travels. Her husband is a retired Warrant Officer, teaches High School, has a Masters, and makes $40K. Both of them, along with my family have more time off than I do and they better benefits. Wife works in the Admin. and tells me of all the waste she see’s in there. I think that there are almost two Admin. workers to every three teachers and they pay administrators well. Maybe that is where a lot of waste is????

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    • 1389AD
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:47pm

      If someone over 55 years of age with a BA, Phi Beta Kappa at that, 30 years of IT experience, and recently updated skills, can find nothing other than part-time retail work at just over the minimum wage, then yes, you should content yourself with 30K/year and all the benefits that go with it. Yes.

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    • csbulldog
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 10:22pm

      Copper Catfish
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 10:06am

      “What do they consider a “fair share” for someone with 50 semester hours beyond a Master’s Degree and 29 years of experience? $30,000?”

      I’d say that if you have 50 semester hrs past a M.D. + 29 yrs experience and making $30,000, you’re not too bright and all that “education” wasn’t worth your time or money. After all you CHOSE to stay in a job that didn’t pay you your “fair share”! In the private sector we don’t get paid “our fair” share, we earn our income based on our output and not some share of the proverbial pie.

      Report Post » csbulldog  
  • baldartist
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:42am

    This varies greatly from state to state, I was a teacher here in North Carolina. I started out making 26k per year, that is 2k less than I made as a bartender the previous year. Keeping in mind that teachers only work 10 months out of the year traditionally. Even if was paid for an additional two months (your not really paid for the two summer months) that would make you about 31k. A techie with a A+ certification and an associates degree makes more than that. easily. Then you do work 60 hour weeks as a public school teacher. Here is the why I got out. POLITICIANS decided what we are to teach. We didn’t teach the basics because POLITICIANS decided that all kids needed to pass tests. So what we teach now is how to pass tests. Testing kids more does not make them smarter or more educated, it only makes them good at passing tests, it does not transfer to anything else. The things kids do not learn in school will baffle you. But it not the teachers fault in most cases. There are bad teachers. But there are bad people in ever occupation, it is the law of averages. Teachers have no say, the administration, the school board and the POLITICIANS have the say. All you need to do is look at the successful education programs around the world to realize American schools are not going to get better as long as the government is in charge of them. In North Carolina there is not a teacher’s union. I‘m not going to mention how bad the kids are because you don’t parent them.

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    • Detroit paperboy
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:55am

      We have the technolgy to put cameras in the classroom , parents could watch and listen to their children being indoctrinated as future global welfare recipients and democrat voters… CAMERAS IN THE CLASSROOM… monitor it from your iphone……

      Report Post »  
    • AJAYW
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 12:02pm

      @Detroit paperboy
      I agree cameras should be in all classrooms and parents could on request watch and see what is going on in a class

      Report Post »  
  • okdrummer
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:34am

    This article serves no purpose other than to heap “fire” on teachers. It won’t reform education, uncorrupt the unions, make parents accountable, or make government smaller. It is the exact same idea that the “occupiers” have, “Let’s all harass the people just doing their job and trying to get by.” It just seems petty. I would expect more from our conservative agenda, solutions not rhetoric. The problem is government intrusion. ie testing, etc., parents who don’t care, and yes, some very bad teachers. The teachers are just the workers, sure there are some bad ones. However, there are plenty of great ones. We do need to reward the good ones. One way we tried to accomplish this was with teacher retirement systems. They were a conscious way of saying, “we appreciate your service to our children and have planned for your retirement.” I know that doesn‘t happen in the private sector but teachers also don’t get bonuses and their salary is pretty much static from year one to year thirty. It was a compromise. Now we say we can’t afford it due to mismanagement, the recession, etc. I say let’s just pay them what their worth, obviously the good one will get more, and let them plan for their own future. The only problem with this is most economists say that the cost for this plan is far more than states are paying now. So what to do….what to do….I know, let’s just write an article that will make people angry at them and offer no real solution. We are b

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    • Detroit paperboy
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:47am

      This has always been about the money , not the children, and certainly not about a quality education. Most of these kids cant read their diploma. These teachers get how many days off per year ? Like 4 months…..i thank God my kids were able to attend private school even though i still paid for public schools thru my property taxes. The govt. Has a virtual monopoly on education and that means cost goes up and quality goes down. Vouchers scare these people to death!!!!!

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  • sethklinefelter
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:28am

    Since the report does not compare teachers with their peers in other countries, doesn’t the statement “work longer hours than their peers in other nations” fall into the category of “such reasoning would get a flunking grade.” I would think that if this representative of teachers was going to grade the report, they could at least do a better job of using logic then the people they are grading.

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  • South Philly Boy
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:24am

    The PROBLEM IS THE UNIONS

    Report Post » South Philly Boy  
    • sethklinefelter
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:31am

      Until the teachers remove themselves from the unions, they are the unions. The teachers have the power to fight the unions or change them from the inside, but they do not. Therefore the problem is the teachers. When teachers fight (figuratively) against the unions, then I will stand with the teachers. Until then, they are part of the problem.

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  • loveliberty83
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:22am

    i think the classroom teaching should be set to a certain program -sick of teachers teaching what they think is right

    Report Post »  
  • Hickory
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:08am

    Why not? Everyone else in industry has either been laid off or had to take a pay cut. Time to bring some of the public employee madness back to reason.

    Report Post » Hickory  
  • normbal
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 8:27am

    Repeat after me: Teachers don’t pay taxes.

    Say this as many times as you need to until is sinks in. NO public employee pays ANYthing for taxes, retirement, unemployment insurance, medical benefits, ANY of it.

    This is a fundament of economics as simple as “you get more of what you subsidize and less of what you tax.” and almost no one gets it and certainly no one is talking about it.

    How can someone who is PAID by taxing the wage-earners, the ones who CREATE value in the economy, pay taxes? It may say they do on their pay stub, sure, and they are asked to “put in a little more” for benefits, but in reality, every time a public employee from The Obama down to the least-paid
    garbage collector (cough-cough… don’t they make something like $200,000 a year in New York City?) gets a raise, it is paid for by someone who MAKES that money. The money they are paid is redistributed from wage-earners.

    Think it over. Change the conversation. Pass it along. Open someone else’s eyes.

    The discussion should be, are we truly getting value for our money spent and how do we take control of the situation back from politicians corrupted by taxpayers dollars laundered through teachers and public employee unions?

    Ron Paul or Herman Cain seem like a good start to me.

    Report Post » normbal  
    • baldartist
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:48am

      That is funny I paid taxes when I was a teacher. State and federal. I paid taxes when I was in the Army as well, and when I worked for the fed.

      Report Post »  
    • AJAYW
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:56am

      @ baldartist

      looks to me like you have been living off the working class your whole life. Why not get out and work for a change see the other side

      Report Post »  
    • normbal
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 11:46am

      Just proves my point about public education victims, bald artist.

      You were duped. You didn’t pay any tax. You didn’t CREATE anything of value to the gross domestic product, your earnings TOOK from it.

      Yeah, I know, on paper it said you “paid” but it’s an illusion created to ensure that shallow-thinking people believe they’re part of the wage-CREATING class, not the feeding at the public trough class.
      Your “taxes” were illusory at best, criminal misrepresentation at worst.

      I’m sorry you were ever a teacher. Someone‘s children’s thinking was seriously distorted in the process.

      Report Post » normbal  
  • hauschild
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 8:17am

    It‘s a joke considering most teachers teach because it’s an easy major, so you’ve got the least smart amongst us teaching the kids, for exorbitant amounts of pay and benefits.

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    • Detroit paperboy
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 10:12am

      @baldartist
      No offense , but you’ve LIVED off taxes your whole life… try working in the private sector on the next go round !!!

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  • Baikonur
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 8:14am

    Silly and outrageous! Teachers are grossly underpaid. Their work is as important as a doctor’s, and they should be compensated as upper middle class professionals. Currently, most teachers earn about as much as an Administrative Assistant in a private firm. That is why the profession does not attract the best and the brightest.

    Report Post » Baikonur  
    • AJAYW
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 8:25am

      You have been brain washes by the system or you are a cry baby teacher…

      Report Post »  
    • AJAYW
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 8:27am

      Oh yea I forgot your ( Upper CLASS ) remark– you must be like Obama

      Report Post »  
    • justice41
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 8:39am

      You must be a teacher. The truth is that it is the bottom quintile of college students in the education department‘s teachers’ program. The rules in most states are written so as to keep out those with better qualifications such as those working in a profession in the subject matter such as a biologist, engineer, statistion, etc., that would now like to pass on their knowledge and experience. Even with a Phd, one would have to go back to college for several more years to qualify as a teacher. The professors thatg teach the courses to the prospective teachers do not qualify to teach in the public K12 system because of rules to keep out competition. As a school volunteer I have seen good and bad teachers and there are too many of the later and the just uncaring incompetent that have never upgraded their knowledge and skills. I do not dislike teachers but I do have strong objections to teacher unions that represent only the teachers and care nothing for students who do not pay union dues. Too many school boards are a farce with teachers and union employees sitting on them. Again no one cares for the students who are short changed.

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    • hdog2012
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 8:50am

      definitely brainwashed……. I went to private catholic school where teachers made nothing. Now I’m a senior in the top public high school in our state. It is pretty sad. the teachers are paid insane amounts and the school wastes millions on crap. We just shut down a bail out thing thank god. It was calling for 4 million more a year. Its insane and they made false claims they would have to make cuts and fire people. guess what no one was cut. I dont even want to go there. The public education is a joke. Its a waste of money half the kids dont want to be there and the other half want a better education……… that can only come from a private school.

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  • Ampleforth
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 8:02am

    Just on wages alone, a starting teacher has a better salary than almost 60% of the residents of the county in which I live. That’s just wages and does not include benefits. The school system has built Taj Mahal like schools and pay their administrators princely sums. Meanwhile, in the last six years my property tax bill has increased by nearly 40%, most of it driven by school tax increases. My utility bills include school taxes, and my personal property taxes include a school tax that is distributed throughout the state.

    Simultaneously, teachers confiscate my childrens’ school supplies to be redistributed among their classmates, and the school system can’t afford to purchase text books.

    It’s insanity. Now, the teachers poor mouth about how they don’t earn a living wage. It’s absolute bull squeeze.

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  • cemerius
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:55am

    Teachers can NEVER have enough money! The way I see it Billy and Sally will finally learn to read by the 9th grade only if the Teachers can ALL how Rolls Royce Chauffered rides!!! How can a Teacher grasp the realitites of modern Marxism so they can pass it on to their 2nd graders if they have to survive on anything less than a million dollars a year for the 9 months of actual work time they use??? I say all them rich 99%’s ought to just write checks to their local school until EVERY kid gets an IPod and IPad…….

    Report Post » cemerius  
    • cemerius
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 8:02am

      OK this is sarcasm of course with intended spelling and grammatical errors!

      Report Post » cemerius  
  • beekeeper
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:25am

    Whenever I discuss teacher salary/benefits with a teacher they like to pick-and-choose their point-by-point comparisons – they compare salary with one job, benefits with another, hours with a third, etc. And they always argue how much more they’d earn in the private sector – in theory – if they were a top-performer in that field, always based on the assumption that a 4 year degree qualifies them to do ANY job…

    Report Post » beekeeper  
    • lukerw
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:39am

      In a Major Computer Manufacturer, the Vice President of Marketing, MBA Harvard… asked me, how to flaten sales, in order to have a normalized Monthly Production. This confirmed… he was an IDIOT!

      Report Post » lukerw  
  • Fight for America
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:13am

    In Illinois (land of no bucks in the cupboard), teachers are “required” to pay 9.4% into their TRS (retirement). That “required”, however, doesn’t keep them from negotiating their contracts so that the Board/District/TAXPAYERS pick up that contribution as well. It’s not just a matter of passing the money on for the teachers, it’s actually the Taxpayers paying even that portion of the contribution. So much for the word “required”. Yes, these facts are on the ISBE site. Oh, and they still have the right to strike in Illinois. It’s still almost impossible to fire a teacher. As to what teachers spend for supplies – seems to me they can also take a deduction at tax time.

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    • obfuscatenot
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:39am

      We are homeschooling in Illinois BECAUSE we can’t afford public school. $ wise. We have to pay all fees, and because we aren’t on “aid” of any kind we were ALWAYS hit up by the school for donations for this or that. Secondarily, the quality of the education has decreased so much because there are those who “have no skin in the game”- they don’t value an education- so we are dumbed down further. Dear public school teachers, what happens when all that’s left to “pay” your salary are the other public school teachers. 57 percent of the folks in our district don’t pay a dime, and I can confidently say that number has gone up at least 10-15% this year alone……Now what, you are the wealthy in our lovely State of Illinois public teacher. Congrats.

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  • Danola
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:05am

    I would like to see Heritage do the same comparison to University Profs. And show the high cost of room and board at Univs. Good job Heritage!

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  • beekeeper
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:04am

    Teachers take hundreds out of their own pockets for school supplies? That ignores the thousands their salaries increase each year that forces districts to cut funding for classroom supplies.

    When teachers say they’ll leave the profession if salary/benefits are cut it undermines their argument that they are not doing what they do for the money/benefits…

    Report Post » beekeeper  
  • Shiroi Raion
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:04am

    I wanted to be a math teacher. I’ve corrected the mistakes of engineers and even explained why the digit-by-digit method of solving square roots works to an engineer. I’ve taught some kids some simple algebra and EVERY time, I was told either, “You should be a math teacher,“ or ”You’re better than my math teacher.” I would be happy if I got half their pay and I’d never want to retire because I love math and I love seeing that look in their eyes when they finally understand how to solve the problem and why it works. Their eyes just light up like they’ve seen a miracle.
    Yes, they’re paid too much. Schools should be privatized or at least be localized so people can get the “best bang for their buck” and so money isn’t wasted or stolen by going through all those countless middlemen that have little or nothing to do with education.

    Report Post » Shiroi Raion  
    • jlwb
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 9:32pm

      @Shiroi Raion so, tutor. Know EXACTLY what you are talking about when that light goes on, and the smile comes, and you hear “give me another problem!”

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  • MO_Mule
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:00am

    While I agree there are probably some States where they are over paid, they sure aren’t here. My wife has been a teacher for 6 years, and total wages and benefits are only 35K a year, and the state ranks 41 out of 50. I wish they wouldn’t demonize everyone because of something going on in the center of the universe.

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    • SamIamTwo
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:13am

      A cop in WA state starts out at 25K…with more years of service they catch up…so will your wife…so don’t worry…and if you live in MO, then your standard of living should be OK?

      If we move to TX we plan on living in a place where the taxes are not as high as the cities in TX…man you talk about being taxed to death, check out WACO…some are paying 8K a year in property taxes and those people are the middle class…

      Report Post » SamIamTwo  
    • MO_Mule
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:22am

      Here, being part of the NEA is optional, and most teachers, locally, choose not to be a part of it. I don’t think we could ever live in a state with the taxes you mention. When it comes down to it, the only people you can blame are the people in that state for allowing it to happen. Complacency, and apathy are like anger… gets you no where… you have to stand up and say Enough!

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    • AJAYW
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:41am

      States ranked by median household incomeMedian Household Income by State [1][2]

      Rank State 2009 2008 2007 2004-2006
      1 Maryland $69,272 $70,545 $68,080 $62,372
      2 New Jersey $68,342 $70,378 $67,035 $64,169
      3 Connecticut $67,034 $68,595 $65,967 $59,972
      4 Alaska $66,953 $68,460 $64,333 $57,639
      5 Hawaii $64,098 $67,214 $63,746 $60,681
      6 Massachusetts $64,081 $65,401 $62,365 $56,236
      7 New Hampshire $60,567 $63,731 $62,369 $60,489
      8 Virginia $59,330 $61,233 $59,562 $55,108
      District of Columbia $59,290 $57,936 $54,317 $47,221 (2005)[3]PDF
      9 California $58,931 $61,021 $59,948 $53,770
      10 Delaware $56,860 $57,989 $54,610 $52,214
      11 Washington $56,548 $58,078 $55,591 $53,439
      12 Minnesota $55,616 $57,288 $55,082 $57,363
      13 Colorado $55,430 $56,993 $55,212 $54,039
      14 Utah $55,117 $56,633 $55,109 $55,179
      15 New York $54,659 $56,033 $53,514 $48,201
      16 Rhode Island $54,119 $55,701 $53,568 $52,003
      17 Illinois $53,966 $56,235 $54,124 $49,280
      18 Nevada $53,341 $56,361 $55,062 $50,819
      19 Wyoming $52,664 $53,207 $51,731 $47,227
      20 Vermont $51,618 $52,104 $49,907 $51,622
      United States $50,221 $52,029 $50,740 $46,242 (2005) [4]PDF
      21 Wisconsin $49,993 $52,094 $50,578 $48,874
      22 Pennsylvania $49,520 $50,713 $48,576 $47,791
      23 Arizona $48,745 $50,958 $49,889 $46,729
      24 Oregon $48,457 $50,169 $48,730 $45,485
      25 Texas $48,259 $50,043 $47,548 $43,425
      26 Iowa $48,044 $48,980 $47,292 $47,489
      27 North Dakota $47,827 $45,685 $43,753 $43,753
      28

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  • davuf
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 6:55am

    @Samiamtwo
    Local taxes are suppose to be used for education. I’m more concerned with federal dollars being used for that purpose. My arguement is teachers should have reduced benefits, no retirement and increased pay.

    I’ll give teacehrs this, it is hard for new teachers starting out. There are few positions and the starting salary is extreemly low.

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    • SamIamTwo
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:03am

      yeah, I agree but still they have been begging and winning at the ballot box for more taxes…they are getting it in more ways that one…and been doing so for many many years.

      They new young teachers, who came out of the liberal colleges? Meh, homeschooling is a proven process that allows the child to exceed those who attended public schools.

      Till they get it, I will vote no for more local taxes for the so called poor teachers protected by Unions.

      It did not start with the feds, it started recently with Obama…but they reached those sweet pay scales and great benefits via the state. And people voted for it…

      Who would not vote yes for the poor teachers, we the voters allowed it…and now the feds feel they need to supplement what we allowed.

      Report Post » SamIamTwo  
    • SamIamTwo
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:04am

      BTW, in my family we have 4 that were teachers in the 50‘s and 60’s when pay was bad.

      Report Post » SamIamTwo  
  • SamIamTwo
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 6:51am

    I have been hearing how they are paid so poorly since the 60′s…sort of getting old now that they are paid more than some select professional jobs. Especially when the students are flat-lined in learning…no improvement for the students but more pay for the teachers…

    Time to cut their pay and the benefits…

    One would think it would be the taxpayers protesting them.

    Report Post » SamIamTwo  
  • davuf
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 6:51am

    Are you kidding? Every job I’ve ever worked required more than 40 hours a week without overtime. Most salary jobs I’ve seen do. I am getting a little sick of hearing the ‘ode of the teacher’ when there is absolutely no accountability on the quality of education. I‘m at the point I’m blaming teachers. All they seem to do is bitch about the sacrifices they go through for the kids. If they hate it so much change jobs. If they don’t stop bitching.

    As far as the compensation claims – yeah it sucks, doesn’t it? I have no doubt the comparisan is true. It sucks when the majority of your salary is composed of benefits instead of actual cash. Sure if you make it to retirement or need the health care it’s great – but how about reducing those benefits and paying me what I’m worth for the rest of my career.

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    • SamIamTwo
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 6:55am

      I’m there, retired and now employed at 63. LOL

      Sick and tired of the children telling me that they will have to work and never retire…most of us now have to work to make ends meet.

      So to those who think they are in a bad way, suck it up buttercup and get with the program…there are ways to survive this mess that Obama is pushing us into. And that is not directed at anyone personally but you gotta watch your backside and take care of your family…

      Stay Chill
      Peace

      Report Post » SamIamTwo  
  • SamIamTwo
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 6:46am

    I’ve known for years that they get paid good pay, great benefits…

    Cities, county and state employees get great pay and benifits.

    The federal employe does not…collective bargaining taken away under Jimmy Carter and they converted their retirement system into a commercial type of retirement system during the Regan times of 1993…401s, savings account etc. Much like the companies in the commercial sector.

    The states were to have done the same at the time but they did not follow feds. Too bad.

    The teachers complain about pay and don’t teach the basics, and then raise up a bunch of more useful idiots.

    Report Post » SamIamTwo  
  • beebacksoon
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 6:45am

    Isn’t one of the reasons public teachers get paid more is the fact the “stimulus” or “Jobs Bill” Obama is running all over the US spewing lies about, is dumped into the unions to do just that (pay better wages/benefits)?
    I know not all public teachers are union members, however, here in FL, when a new teacher is hired, the union offers them a better price for health insurance. My neighbor said she would never have become a union member but for that reason.

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    • SamIamTwo
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 6:48am

      Check out how your state taxes are distributed to the teachers. County taxes, city taxes…they are raping you and you don’t know it…you in the general sense…not to be personalized.

      Report Post » SamIamTwo  
  • GeorgeWashingtonslept here
    Posted on November 3, 2011 at 6:34am

    Okay all you teacher haters, don’t even start. I can tell you this…………….teachers work more than 40 hours per week. And DO NOT get paid for it. And they DO NOT get paid for being off in the summer. If any of you anti-teachers worked ONE frigging hour over your 40 and didn’t get paid for it, you’d be bit@hing your heads off . Nuf said.

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    • RabiaDiluvio
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 6:54am

      Not disputing the basics…only the final statement. Every non-teaching job I have worked in the past 20 years has demanded that I work overtime and yet not receive paid overtime. Instead I was compensated with theoretical “comp time” which I could almost never use. My average work week: 50-70, not 40. In my experience, non-comp overtime has become the norm.

      Ironically one of the jobs I used to work when I was very young was in teaching supply. I got to see first hand how hard teachers work and how much of their own money they spend for the classroom.

      Alas, if only the public education system were in better shape…

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    • Gump
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:10am

      Wow, you are really clueless to the real world. Yes you are correct most are on 10 month contracts and they make more in 10 months than most do in 12 months. They get off a couple of weeks for Christmas break, another week for spring break, and they get more holidays than I get in hoildays and vacation. Guess what….they get paid for all of it! Try to get tenure in the real world! Performance is a whole different issue ….or lack of.

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    • trench99
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:16am

      I’ve got three kids, never in twenty years have I so much as seen a teacher stay after school, buy supplies, or work 40 hours much less a weekend. School runs 180 days, teachers have the option of flex pay ( have their salary paid all year or just during the work year ), the receive a full benefit package including pension, health, term life, as well as perks ( buy a house 1.00 down, discounted insurances, discounts to entertainment, ect ) Teachers here start out at 34K, plus benefits. That’s damn good considering most folks here earn that per year without any benefits, and the teacher is working half a year.

      Report Post »  
    • AJAYW
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:19am

      @ GeorgeWashingtonslept here

      ******** they are over paid and only work 184 days of the year, and 6 hrs a day.= 1196 hrs a year. If they manages their time and used the FREE periods they get (2 to 3 @,45 min each ) day for something other than setting in the teachers lounge bitching they could get their paper work done.Teachers get 90% of their wages after 35 years of teaching allowing some to make 80,000. plus a year in retirement. They are paid for any eatra they do at school. Everyone else works 5 days a week @ 8hrs= 40 hrs a week Avg. 52 weeks= 2080 hrs a year This is a bunch of spin on their part claming their 4 yrs of higher edu. is better than the rest.. I say teachers do it because its easy money good bennies AND NO ACCOUNABILITY FOR THEIR POOR WORK..

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    • beebacksoon
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:20am

      I, for one, would never say anything negative about teachers, except those that hide behind “tenure” and are hideous teachers!
      I have several family members, and friends, that are teachers. I started school in the late 50′s. “Reading, Writing and Arithmetic” was taught with vigor.
      Teachers were NOT required to:
      Keep track of students with ADD, or any other like acronym.
      Go to work early and stay late for “babysitting”.
      Accept bad behaviour
      Be traffic or bus monitor.
      Have “student aide” to help.
      Fear for their life.
      Learn “Lock Down” procedures

      STUDENTS:
      Had respect for their teacher.
      Dressed appropriately.
      Did not talk or act up during class (heaven forbid you were chewing gum!)
      Did not use calculators in math.
      Did not have a pre-printed, required, list of school supplies to buy.
      Were not overwhelmed with studying for the FCAT test.
      Did not have 2+ hours of homework to do.

      Tenure should be omitted for all.
      “Grade” teachers on their performance (weed out bad teachers cruising until retirement); and give raises accordingly (more if they teach in a difficult school district).
      Get the federal government out of the schools; give the funding to the states, with no strings attached, and let the states decide the cirriculum. (Our governor now realizes when our state accepts federal funding, they are required to teach certain criteria; start new “community programs”, etc.)

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    • theborgster
      Posted on November 3, 2011 at 7:31am

      Sorry, teachers get paid by contract. They are paid for the days they are physically in the building. This year for most, it is a 180 day contract. They don’t get paid for summer, holidays, spring or christmas break. Each year, thanks to hopenchange, the contract days get shorter. Has gone from 186 to 180 in the last three years. This translates to a smaller salary due to fewer contract days…

      Report Post »  
    • Pianobabe
      Posted on November 4, 2011 at 8:41am

      I am a financial advisor. In performing analyses for pre- and post-retirement individuals in my community, there is a VAST difference between the lifestyles of teachers/state/federal/county employees and other-occupation workers. Career teachers usually retire between ages 55 and 60. Their health care is either paid for, or is an inexpensive group policy with little or no copays or deductibles. Or their Health Savings Account is funded by taxpayer money. Their spouses’ healthcare is usually paid for as well. The majority of the retired teachers live in lake homes or other expensive homes. They drive late model cars, take nice vacations and have expensive hobbies. Contrast this with the 82-year-old woman who works fulltime at the local WalMart to make ends meet. And she is helping to fund the retirement of the upper class, a/k/a union employees.

      Report Post »  
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