Reports: Netanyahu Has ‘Almost Finally’ Made Decision to Attack Iran Nuke Plants — But Cabinet Colleagues Oppose
- Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:28am by
Sharona Schwartz
- Print »
- Email »
Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Visit Troops on Sinai Border (Photo: Israeli GPO)
Israel’s Channel 2 News – the most widely watched television news show in Israel – is quoting sources close to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who say he and Defense Minister Ehud Barak have “almost finally” made their decision to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities.
But the country’s widely-read newspaper Yediot Aharonot reports the two leaders – whom it says both favor an attack in the fall before U.S. elections — are facing stiff opposition from both cabinet colleagues and Israeli President Shimon Peres, who oppose a strike just yet. The paper says Israeli officials are worried military action during that time could embarrass President Barack Obama as he faces Republican opponent Mitt Romney.
The challenge facing Israeli decision-makers is great. Channel 2 News’ Diplomatic Correspondent Udi Segal reports that Netanyahu and Barak believe the price of a strike on Iran is smaller than the price Israel will have to pay in the future to deal with a nuclear-armed Iran.
On the other hand, military sources provide a sober assessment of the effectiveness of any strike, suggesting that it will most likely delay the Islamic Republic’s nuclear march by only one to two years, which will require at the very least intensive diplomatic work and in the worst case more military action to thwart the long-term prospects of the program.
Last week, Netanyahu said in the wake of the terrorist attack in the Sinai: “When it comes to the security of the citizens of Israel, the State of Israel must and can rely only on itself. Nobody can fulfill this role other than the IDF and the security services of the State of Israel and this is how we will continue to act.”
Though he was officially referring to Egypt’s slow response to terror threats in the Sinai, his words also reflect the growing belief in Jerusalem that it cannot count on the U.S. to defend it from Iran’s nuclear program. Reporter Segal said [Hebrew link]:
Israel is convinced the United States won’t act. President Obama doesn’t want to act before the elections and it’s doubtful if he will act afterwards. There are those around the prime minister who believe that Obama can be drawn in by and live with the Iranian threat.
Segal quotes a senior Israeli official who says, “America is willing to accept Iran as a nuclear threshold state. In Israel’s perspective, a ‘threshold state’ is a nuclear state.” There is deep concern in Jerusalem over strong signs from Washington that the U.S. is nowhere near committing to military action to root out the Iranian nuclear threat. Channel 2 reviewed the most recent signs by which Israeli officials are drawing their conclusions:
*The U.S. still hasn’t shown Israel any attack plan.
*Obama has not committed to attacking Iran and cannot commit.
*Defense Secretary Panetta defined the conditions for attack which include: Iran’s immediate transition to assembling a nuclear weapon, at attack on American targets, a blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, a massive attack on Israel.
Adding to the conviction that they are on their own, Israeli officials believe that in the past, Obama did not act without the approval of the UN Security Council and the Arab League both of which tend to vote solidly against Israel. The official also told Channel 2 that even if Romney is elected, his ability to take action during his first year in office will be limited.
Former Mossad chief Shabtai Shavit summed up the Israeli position, telling Channel 2: “I don’t believe even if speaking about friends and the greatest allies. When speaking about my fate, my existence, my survival, I don’t hand over this subject to a foreign actor to handle it. The U.S. can also live with a nuclear Iran.”
Netanyahu views Iran’s nuclear challenge as an historical imperative. He has compared the Iranian threat to the Nazi Holocaust and believes that stopping Iran means stopping Iran’s plans to destroy the Israeli state and the Jewish people.
Another anecdote which reflects Israel’s sense it might have to “go-it-alone.” It’s quite rare and most definitely undiplomatic to criticize a White House spokesman, which is why an Israeli official insisted on anonymity when he took a swipe at Obama spokesman Jay Carney who on Friday said the U.S. would know if Iran had made a major breakthrough toward becoming a nuclear power. Carney said:
I would also say that we have eyes — we have visibility into the program, and we would know if and when Iran made what’s called a breakout move towards acquiring a weapon.
Israel’s Channel 2 News obtained a response from “sources in Jerusalem” who responded to Carney, saying: the U.S. “didn’t see 9/11 coming.”
(H/T: Times of Israel)
Popular Stories
Paper Details Obama Admin’s Alleged Secret Note Sent to Iran: If Israel Attacks, We Won’t Get Involved 582 Comments
‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 411 Comments
This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 408 Comments
Roseanne Barr: Most Billionaires ‘Violent Pedophiles’ & ‘Heartless’ Cocaine Addicts 373 Comments
President Obama Issues Major ‘Green Energy’ Executive Order 363 Comments
Faith
- This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 408 Comments
Pakistani Muslim Cleric Accused of Framing Disabled Christian Girl in Koran-Burning Case Read More- ‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 411 Comments
Meet the Controversial German Imam Accused of Brutally Beating His Wife & Pushing Sharia Law Read More
‘Self-Proclaimed Messiah’ & Unification Church Leader the Rev. Sun Myung Moon Has Died — Here’s His Life Story Read More
Business
- President Obama Issues Major ‘Green Energy’ Executive Order 363 Comments
- Germany’s Upcoming Court Ruling Will be Huge for the EU Read More
Ford Looks to Beat Toyota for Best-Selling Car in 2012 With This Model 151 Comments
Bernanke & QE3: Here’s What You Need to Know Read More- ‘Extortion’: Why Did the Labor Department ‘Drop the Hammer’ on Oregon Farmers? 302 Comments
Technology
- This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 408 Comments
‘TaserDrone’: Hackers Weaponize Quadcopter With Actual ‘Shocking’ Technology Read More
Ever Heard of the Wild ‘Burning Man’ Festival in the Middle of the Nev. Desert? Here’s Your Primer Read More
Stanford Develops Technology ‘Better Than Steroids’ for Athlete Recovery Read More
Have You Pretended to Know What ‘the Cloud’ Is? You’re Not Alone Read More
Submitting your tip... please wait!
Comments (290)
LeadNotFollow
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:42am…
Israel has been very patient with Iran. Israel has tried it’s best to settle matters peacefully with Iran, for MANY years.
The Iranian Muslims hate the Israeli Jews. Iran does not want peace with Israel. They want to annihilate the Israeli people and take their land.
Muslims hate Christians too. America is next on their list.
Iran would not even attempt to attack Israel, if Iran knew that Israel had the support of America.
Report Post »America is an ally of Israel. We should be standing with them, but Barack Hussein Obama is standing with Iran instead.
The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:49am“Israel has been very patient with Iran. Israel has tried it’s best to settle matters peacefully with Iran, for MANY years.”
Let’s just call this what it is. A bold face lie. A propaganda lie.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:58am@Jerk
Report Post »Israel has a standing peace offer with the entire Arab Middle East. So far that offer has only been accepted twice and Iran wasn’t one of those that did. Iran could have agreed to peace with Israel at any time in the last 60 years.
The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:04pmTZion, good morning.
Israel’s idea of peace is:”Do it my way or hit the highway.” Listen, Israel has nuclear weapons. Why is it unreasonable for its neighbors to want the same?
Report Post »Bluefish49
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:11pm@the_jerk….you named yourself correctly…..Isreal has no other choice that to target Iran. And yes it will probably start WW3….but so be it.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:13pmIsrael’s “do it my way” is actually “leave us alone and don’t bother us”. If Iran wants nukes and peace, why haven’t they even tried to make peace? Building nukes while calling for the destruction of the “Zionist Regime” doesn’t sound like a defensive plan to me. Add in Iran ongoing sponsorship of terrorist groups that actively seek Israel‘s annihilation and it’s clear what they really want. Actions speak louder than words and neither the words nor actions of Iran in any way suggest peaceful intentions.
Report Post »woodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:16pm@ the jerk. For the same reason we had nukes during and after WW2 and DIDN’T use them – it kept our enemies from using theirs. But considering that Israel is only minutes away from a self-described enemy hell-bent on it’s destruction, the ONLY option left them is defensive. Deterrence WOULD NOT save them from an Iranian first strike.
Sort of like if your neighbor said he was going to bash your head in with a baseball bat, and one Sunday morning he appears at your front step with said bat asking to be let in for a cup of sugar –
Report Post »as the Israel YOU want, you’d have no problem letting him into your home because after all, all he wants is a cup of sugar…right?
LeadNotFollow
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:19pm…
Report Post »“The_Jerk” got up on the wrong side of GOD this morning.
Don’t feed the TROLL.
woodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:21pm@ the jerk – The ROMANS named them Palestine.
@ kidcharlemagne – Yep, we went into Iraq and Afghanistan, neither allies of Iran. Yep, Obammy went into Libya and Egypt and Tunisia against the war powers act and the majority of BOTH sides of our political spectrum, so your point is?
Report Post »(As an aside, did you pick your Blaze name re: Steely Dan?)
The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:33pmTZion and Woodyee, none of these nations are peaceful nations, including Israel. Like the Nazis wanted an ethnically pure German state, Israel wants an ethnically pure Jewish state.
My point is, if one dog nation has nukes, then all of the dog nations should have nukes. Since we allowed, aided, Israel in getting its nukes, then we have no standing in stopping others from doing the same.
Report Post »It is precisely this double standard that turned the Middle East against America. There was a time when the Arabs wanted America as the overseer of the mandate, and not Britain.
The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:35pmLeadNotFollow, actually I got up with G-d this morning and he told me to have the strength and wisdom to set the record straight.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:43pmWould you give Hitler a nuke?
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:44pm@Jerk
Israel does NOT want an ethnically pure state. They have Arabs in government, voting, doing business, and even serving as judges. The PA, on the other hand, headed by Fatah, is looking to create an ethnically pure Palestinian state, or at least one with no Jews. Under PA law, it is illegal to sell land to a Jew. It is the PA demanding that Israel dismantle all Jewish residences in the area they want for a state while Israel has yet to demand that the PA force all Palestinians to live under their rule. Abbas himself even publicly declared that the future state would be free of Jews.
Who wants an ethnically pure state again (besides Techengineer11)?
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:47pmThe_Cabrito_Goat, I would not give the Nazis a nuke for the same reasons that I would not give Zionists a nuke. Sadly, we have given the Zionists a nuke, and now we are acting as hypocrites.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:54pmDon’t you realize how many times Israel has been sacked by other nations in the last century? Of course they deserve a nuke, to deter anybody from trying it again.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:05pmThe_Cabrito_Goat, don’t you realize how many times the nuclear armed Israel has sacked many other nations in the past half century? Those other nations need nukes. Fairness, parity, justice, demands no less.
Report Post »WAKEUPUSA2012
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:34pmYou neoconservatives and zionist who want this war are some sick SOBs. Wars of aggression are bull, as was made clear in Nuremburg. Im praying this does not hapen. You fake christians saying praise God WW3 is coming that means Jesus will be here soon, wow you are one sick POS. Your viewes of the world have been twisted so much that only YOU can be right. And how dare another country do what it thinks is good for itself. I pray to Jesus and I talk to God, but I want nothing to do with you freaks. Have you read your bible? Do you know what Israel will be doing in the end days? ITS NO PRETTY. You people are asking for HELL on EARTH. Be very carefull you slime ball neocons and zionist.
Report Post »Constantine Ivanov
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:34pm@BLUEFISH49
1. The total world Jewish population is 13-14 Million, based on available slightly different statistics reports.
As of 2010, there were 5,703,700 Jews in Israel; 5,275,000 Jews in the USA; about 1.5 Million Jews in Europe, 400,000 in Latin America and 350,000 in Canada.
Out of less than 100,000 Jews in Africa, 90% live in the Republic of South Africa.
There are about 100,000 Jews in Australia and New Zealand combined and about 50,000 Jews in Asia (not including Israel).
2. The death toll in the World War II (fatal casualties only) reportedly varies from 62 to 78 million.
3. I bet that in case of actual WWIII, out of 5 Million American Jews, only at best a few hundred will enroll in the Army in the Field.
Isn’t this an irrefutable fact that very few America Jews immigrate to Israel?
4. Only an individual who never saw a real war, who never personally actually fought in a war (not as a man serving in rear) can light-heartedly say “it will probably start WW3….but so be it.”
I am curious would you be able to talk like this to an American mom who received a “killed in action” notice?
By the way, if you are going to call me anti-Semite, fyi, I am a Jew.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:47pmFine, let the Jews get vaporized, I’m not discussing this anymore with you.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:54pm@Constantine
Report Post »You make an interesting point. However, in the unfortunate event there is a WWIII, it would necessitate the re-institution of the national draft.
WAKEUPUSA2012
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:01pmWhy dont you war mongering chicken hawks go read Constantine Ivanov post. Those are FACTS he is saying. Ive never been in war. Ive never even been in the military. But I have listened to enough elders to know, war is HELL. You FAKE christians are the worst. You act so holy and so knowledgeable. Have you any idea what ww3 will be like. This is idiot that says “so be it” YOU GO FIGHT. You send your KIDS out there. You let your partener DIE in some hell hole alone and scared. We as a nation need to take a deep long look at our flawed foreign policy. BECK is a war monger. The preachers in these mega churches are war mongers. “LET IT BE” WHAT A JOKE. I dont wanna bomb people. I dont wanna be bombed. The golden rule. Treat others the way you wanna be treated. Israel has just as many terror groups as Iran and thats the truth. I will not comply. I will not Romans 13 A illegitimate government like this that has people like Bill Krystal calling for more war. I WILL NOT COMPLY.
Report Post »Captain77
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:09pmBefore all you war happy people start cheering on Israel you should realize that both Russia and China has strong interests in Iran; China even went so far as to say that should Iran be attacked, they will take it as an attack on China. Should Israel attack Iran, the war and bloodshed will most surely spill beyond its borders, perhaps even into our own. Think I’m exaggerating? Look at the history of WW1. One small act of war, an assassination, ended causing the death of 16 million people.
Report Post »sillyfreshness
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:30pmThe only reason why Israel has been peaceful with Iran is because they are waiting to get US backing in this attack. Until they get definite backing, they won’t mess with Iran. Iran is a bigger military adversary than any other country in the region. They may be taking on more than they anticipate.
Report Post »Constantine Ivanov
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:41pm@WAKEUPUSA2012:
1. First of all, Mr/Mrs. WakeUp, even though I am a Jew, I am very much Conservative: I am against government intrusion is private lives; against giving the government more and more uncontrollable power; against endless and enormous corrupted bureaucracy, which particularly with Dems grows like cancer metastasises; against any attempts to convert our country into a Socialist/Marxist system; against late-term abortions; against promoting same-sex marriage, etc.
You call people like me “neocons,” which is both theoretically and practically ignorant. But this is a different topic.
2. I may be wrong, but I think that many problems we all are facing, are rooted in a misconception about so-called “Judeo-Christian values.”
I met very few Christians who know Tanakh and Talmud, and I met almost no Jews who know the New Testament.
So, it’s pretty easy to fool the both sides and inject – first of all, into Christians’ common brain – a mantra about “common values” (which, as I know from my Jewish milieu, no one Jews believes in).
Why was/is this “mantra” needed? To me, the answer seems evident. It’s like Obama gathering votes by all means, at all and any cost. Support. As broad support as possible.
By the way, Stalin played a crucial role in establishing Israel. Why? Because he wanted the new Jewish state be a Communism outpost in the Middle East.
Report Post »Did anybody of you live in Israel? Yes, it’s not a Socialist state, but how much different?
WAKEUPUSA2012
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:01pmConstantine Ivanov
I was agreeing with you. Lol I think you didnt get the context of my post. I love everything you said, cause its the truth. I myself am a conservaitve. Im all for war, when it is justified.Thats the only problem the zioniest and neocons have, how to justify a war?
Report Post »Crazymind
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:21pmI guess you are waiting for Iran to nuke Israel as they say they will do ?
Report Post »lel2007
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:39pmI hope the Israelis hold off until Nov 3, and then crush Iran. It’d be a tragedy and disaster were the American electorate decided to stay the course with the communist in office now. A tragedy for both America and Israel.
Report Post »hayesstephen
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 4:01pmIsrael is alone in this world.United Islamic States of America will not help Israel.American Jews love NoBalma,they support NoBama with their time, money.Look back to the 1930′s.Jews voted for Hitler and the Nazis party!! Look what a great idea that was.You vote for the very people who are actively working to get Sharia Law into the U.S.A. The camps have been rebuilt , each camp has a railroad running up to it, each camp will have separate quarters for OberKapo Juden. This time will not be one of you will escape. Believe this or not, some Jews wish Israel and Jerusalem would just go away.Christians will be given a chance to convert, those who remain faithful will be executed. Jews will not be offered the choice. Gays will stand on the gallows. Remember you voted for NoBama our first muslim President. In 2013 the United States will cease to exist. Should it seem likely that NoBama would lose the election he will declare martial law and suspend the election and all civil liberties. You manics voted for your own ruin and deaths.My Yeshua is A Jew, I love Israel and her people, how could I not? When the day comes for me to answer will I convert?I pray I will refuse to become an apostate and walk proudly unafraid to the WALL and be martyred.Yeshua give me the strength not to weaken. Now all you crazy liberals have a good laugh and call me names,I don’t mind because I will have the last laugh as they stand you next to me facing the firing squad. I bet you’ll call out Yeshua!!
Report Post »EspaldaMojada
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 4:39pmHis brothers are in Iran. See 2016 Obama’s America. We must remove this menace to the US. Vote and vote often. mas rapido possible adios obama
Report Post »EspaldaMojada
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 4:54pmJerk and others,
The discussion here is moronic. It doesn’t matter who called it Palestine. God gave it to Israel. Iran’s beliefs make them unfit for nukes. Judeo-Christian beliefs are very different. There is not control or deterrent when you worship death and suicide. Iran is Shiite, nuts, statan worshiping and dangerous. Obama supports Iran. God will intervene if Iran is not stopped. I say the USA should stop them cold. First, we need to vote their brother from office.
Report Post »christos
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 6:44pmthe __ jerk – Is being an enemy of +JESUS+GOD+ on your short list,you can certainly check that off now mission accomplished.
Report Post »christos
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 7:09pmconstatine You may want to read the book of Revelation,your idealistic views sound great yet everyone know freedom isn’t free,you claim to be Jewish ok,,,+GOD+ said people who are not brave are not worthy of the Kingdom of +GOD+ all through history people have had to have wars or be taken over Israel is surrounded by evil people about 357 million Israel is the size of a postage stamp,Israel is not going to be Pushed around or Bullied,Jewish people are kind natured people after what they have been through you should be ashamed of talking this way,,,also don‘t you think the Jewish people’s enemies know where the Jewish people spread around the world are,the enemy would not stop with Israel they would go world wide destroying anyone in their path you are Naive.
Report Post »Alky
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 7:35pmAn attack on Iran by Israel would be the perfect crisis for Obama to become the permanent dictator-in-chief!
Report Post »christos
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:12pmTo HAYES STEPHEN – I believe you,yet I also believe we/believers will be “caught up in the Clouds” to meet +JESUS+GOD+ your stand point how people are blind to these things is right on,it is amazing how ignorant,someone said lately they thought +JESUS+GOD+ has sent the strong delusions so they can not discern the truth,the Bible does speak of this,I know you love +GOD+ by the way you speak of +HIM+ & your Trust in +HIM+ +GOD+ is the Best,soon all of this bad will pass & we will be living in the Millennium with +JESUS+GOD+ running the Government out of Jerusalem,and as Promised we will each have our own fig trees,stand on the Promises of +GOD+ our ROCK+
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:22pm@The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:04pm
TZion, good morning.
Israel’s idea of peace is:”Do it my way or hit the highway.” Listen, Israel has nuclear weapons. Why is it unreasonable for its neighbors to want the same?
Report Post »***
Very simple: ISRAEL HAS NEVER SAID THEY INTEND TO ANNIHILATE IRAN OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH!
Mil Mom
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:36pmIt’s a good thing God promises to watch over Israel, (Isaiah anyone?)
Report Post »Because the posters here on the Blaze, primarily would be the kind to stab them there it sounds like!
Walkabout
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:26pmMuslim Brotherhood anti-army coup in Cairo. Tanks move up to Israel border
http://debka.com/article/22268/Muslim-Brotherhood-anti-army-coup-in-Cairo-Tanks-move-up-to-Israel-border
Bluster or War?
Egypt has 15 Billion in Foreign Currency Reserves. They are losing 1 billion a month. Do the math. They import 1/23 their wheat.
My guess is that the MB will allow this or that terrorists group newly formed, golden oldie, or one that has changed it’s name fire into Israel hopefully provoking an Israeli response which can be met by the Egyptian Army (of course the Egyptians can stop(?) the Israelis but somehow not the terrorists. How convenient).
). If the Egyptians inflict casualties great. If the Egyptians come off the worse, then Morsi agitates for War or goes to war. Morsi Expect Hezbollah or someone to attack form the North. Well they are knee deep in Syria. They will not do as well as they did in 2006. Maybe he is waiting for Syria to sort itself out & counting on the victor to side with him.
Just like the Balkans Wars that preceded WW1.
Report Post »wgmedlin
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:27pmto “The_Jerk” when Isreal is totally surrounded by Islam, and we know that the entire land of Isreal belongs to the Isrealites“ the jews ” why should they give up there land to the muslims who already own everything surrounding Isreal. We also know for a fact that the Dome of th Rock was built on the site of the Jewish temple, you can plainly see it for yourself, even though it is denied, you have eyes LOOK. The Jews got there land back after it was taken by the persians “iran” many, many years ago, so why should isreal give anything to a people that never exsisted the “palastinians”, and its also not there land either. There was never a place called Palastine, until the british made it up and in 1988 they claimed to be a real state,,, NONSENSE,,, Isreal should never give in,,, Never, Never, Never,,,,, and if so WHY.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:42pmTHE_JERK — We find ourselves in agreement.
Consider Iran’s situation. Yes, the Muslim world does find itself united under the “Palestine question.” However, the Arab (remember, the Iranians are not Arabs) world does not like the Iranians. If Israel/Palestine were removed from the equation, the Arab world would be united against the Iranians they despise so much, for being ethnically different and following a different form of Islam (and for long memories of Persian conquest centuries before). In addition, it finds its chief rival in the region, Saudi Arabia, not only protected by the most powerful military in the world, belonging to a nation that has invaded two neighbors. Every state bordering or near Iran is an ally with or houses troops belonging to this military. Afghanistan and Iraq houses American troops. Turkey is a US ally. Not to mention Bahrain, Qatar, Yemen, Kuwait. Iran finds itself beset at all sides.
Imagine if China or Russia conquered Mexico and Canada, and had allies in Cuba, every Central American and Caribbean state. Wouldn’t you want every weapon, up to and including nuclear, to protect ourselves from the very near threat?
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:04pmThis is not to say, however, that Iran is right to sponsor terrorism against in the region or its threats to Israel.
However, we cannot condemn them for sponsoring terrorist groups when we do the same thing. The Joint Operations Group has given training and aid to the MEK, a terrorist group that has killed Americans, for anti-Iran operations. Michele Bachmann has pushed for the State Dept to de-list the MEK as a terrorist group so that it can receive more money from the US.
(http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/04/mek.html)
We have also engaged in efforts to destablize the country, through manipulation and interference in their banking, and to sponsor anti-regime groups. If another country did that to us, we would be rightly pissed. This is not to say, who started it first, or who is more deserving of it, or any of that immature, childish nonsense. Simply, if it is wrong for them to do it, it is wrong for us. If it is right for us, it is right for them.
Also, yes, Ahmedinejad has engaged in scary rhetoric concerning Iran. But so have US leaders, including fundamentalist golden boy Rick Santorum; he stated unequivocally that he would attack Iran if Iran did not behave properly. If we think Iran is a threat because of their rhetoric, then the same most hold true for them when they look at our rhetoric.
Especially if they look at our internet forums. We sit here and condemn them for wanting to kill us, when we demand they all die too…
Report Post »Constantine Ivanov
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 12:29am@CHRISTOS
1. You misspelled my name, but I know it’s not intentional.
2. “You may want to read the book of Revelation” – I did. Many times.
As I already said, I am “a white crow”: a very rare type of Jews: Conservative, with pretty substantial knowledge of both Tanakh and the New Testament and therefore very skeptical with regard to so-called “common Judeo-Christian values” (from my Jewish milieu, I know that Jews share almost no Christian values and vice versa – Christians share almost nothing besides Ten Commandments, which essentially are rules usual for almost all religions and all nations.)
2. 3. I don’t “claim to be Jewish,” I am.
3. “freedom isn’t free,” you bombastically said.
Well, there are many local wars available for you to join fighting “for freedom.” Did some country attack you today? Did somebody ask you to pay for their freedom [of what]?
4. You need God because you are afraid of Death and console yourself with a dream of the God’s Kingdom.
Report Post »I am with one of my legs already in my grave and have already accustomed to the very thought of my forthcoming death and I don’t console myself with anything except for works I managed to accomplish.
But I don‘t want that my children and grandchildren become victims of somebody’s bravado, stupidity…and dirty political games.
Armed Patriot
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 12:19pmThe paper says Israeli officials are worried military action during that time could embarrass President Barack Obama as he faces Republican opponent Mitt Romney.
So Israel is prepared to risk the Israeli population to help Obama (the worst President to the Israeli people) to help his reelection? Obama has shunned, rejected and offended the Israelis…and Israeli officials are worried military action that could embarrass President Barack Obama???
Dont you people understand??? Obama is an antisemite. He doesnt like jews. He embraces Islam, has aided Hamas and Al Queda, and has invitede the Muslim Brotherhood into the White House. He has washed the Muslim terrorist from the FBI/Homeland Security training manuals. He has these islamists working in the highest level of FBI, Homeland Security, NSA, etc. He has given billions of dollars to fund Hamas in Gaza and Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.
I disagree with the the assertion that Romney would not act in his first year. If Israel attack, Iran will respond with force against US interests/military in the region. Who do you want to respond? Obama with a strongly worded message to the UN or Romney with the full force and power of the US military?
The only solution is to bomb Iran back to the days of Xerxes.
Report Post »blackyb
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:33amIran may be waiting to see if Obama is going to stay in office before attacking Israel. If they see Obama is going to leave office, they may make the first move before Obama leaves office. He told Russia he would have more felixibility after the elections. That could have meant anything and I do not trust him to stand by Israel. Israel may have no choice but to act soon.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:37amBlackyb, please educate us. When was the last time Iran attacked any of its neighbors?
Report Post »woodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:54am@ the jerk – Well, if you disregard Iranian incursions into Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and Syria since 2003 then I’d have to agree you.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:00pm@Jerk
Report Post »Hamas and Hezbollah are sponsored and funded by the Iranian regime. Any action taken by them is on Iran hands. So I’d say the last time Iran attacked someone was that bus bombing earlier this summer. Seems like such a long time ago, right?
woodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:05pm@ the jerk – here’s the tip of the iceberg for you, and I didn’t have to reach into the 11th century to do it –
http://www.cfr.org/iran/irans-involvement-iraq/p12521
Report Post »http://www.irantracker.org/analysis/fulton-iran-middle-east-arab-spring-september-28-2011
http://www.mepc.org/journal/middle-east-policy-archives/egypt-and-iran-30-year-estrangement?print
http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=1&id=29749
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/02/09/egypt-unrest-iran-secretary-clinton-needs/
RANGER1965
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:09pmWow…the ******** are really scraping the bottom of the barrel this morning.
Jerk‘s reasoning is so off the wall that it isn’t even coherent.
It’s like having a rabid mad dog in a pen. You can see him biting at everything that comes close to the wire. Then saying, oh well he hasn’t bitten anyone for months, let’s let him go free.
Not even considering that the reason he hasn’t bitten anyone, is because you have him penned in.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:12pmWoodye and Tzion, if we are going to talk incursions, then let’s start with the incursion of European and American Jews into the land then called Palestine. The founder of Zionism, Theodor Herzl, called it Palestine. The Balfour Declaration and the White Papers called it Palestine. Encyclopedias at the time called it Palestine.
Report Post »If you are talking about a nation attacking another nation, then tell me, when was the last time Iran attacked any of its neighbors?
KidCharlemagne
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:13pmwoodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:54am
@ the jerk – Well, if you disregard Iranian incursions into Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and Syria since 2003 then I’d have to agree you.
=======================================
The irony here is that the list of countries that you cite here are all places where the U.S. has made incursions since 2003 too.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:20pm@Jerk
Did I mention incursions? Hamas calls for the annihilation of Israel and is sponsored by Iran. Hezbollah calls for the annihilation of Israel and is sponsored by Iran. Both have attacked Israel directly by targeting civilians. Hezbollah has attacked Israelis on foreign soil. Both are tools of Iran.
People traveling to a scarcely populated and mostly desolate region, buying or settling land, and making a home there aren’t part an incursion. By that argument the American settlers was an incursion.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:23pmWoodyee, none of your links answers the question. When was the last time the nation of Iran attacked any of its neighbors? By your standards, America has been attacking nations on just about every continent throughout the 20th century; multiple nations simultaneously. (Cuba, Philippines, Nicaragua, Grenada, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Columbia, Venezuela, Chile, Argentina, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Panama, El Salvador, Libya, Lebanon… hell, I’d have to write another 50 or 60.)
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:23pmtzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:00pm
So I’d say the last time Iran attacked someone was that bus bombing earlier this summer.
===============================
I’d say that your imagination has run completely wild:
“Bulgarian police say suspect was long-haired Caucasian in sportswear”
Report Post »Jul.19, 2012 | 1:42 PM
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/watch-footage-of-suspected-suicide-bomber-in-attack-on-israelis-in-bulgaria-1.452240
woodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:25pm@ the jerk – The ROMANS named them Palestine.
@ kidcharlemagne – Yep, we went into Iraq and Afghanistan, neither allies of Iran. Yep, Obammy went into Libya and Egypt and Tunisia against the war powers act and the majority of BOTH sides of our political spectrum, so your point is?
Report Post »(As an aside, did you pick your Blaze name re: Steely Dan?)
woodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:31pm@ the jerk (bro, can’t you change that handle? No dis intended, it‘s just that it lends to you an attribute that I don’t think applies.) ;-)
I don’t like the US incursions any more than you do, but the subject is Iranian nuclear threat on Israel, and we’ve strayed from that. The point I was trying to make is that Iran is a political and military destabilizer in the Middle East and have historically given no nation on Earth a reason to disbelieve a threat.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:37pmRANGER1965, with all of that writing, you’ve said nothing. Substance man, substance.
Report Post »historyguy48
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:42pmHey Jerk; haven’t you ever heard of the Iraq and Iran war? Saddam preemptively attacked Iran because Iran was going to attack him. One Million dead came from that war.
Report Post »Israel has a problem trying to take out Iran’s nuclear facilities because they are so numerous and Israel needs out help to do so. Somehow, since Dear Leader celebrated Ramadan last night, I doubt if he is going to support their attack.
This could very well develop into a nuclear war in the middle east and we will be hit also. That is why Dear Leader has made a point of leaving our borders open while reducing, unilaterally, our nuclear arsenal. He has also made a point of putting a large chunk of our navy at risk of defeat in detail by the Iranians.
RANGER1965
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:43pm@Jerk,
Critical thinking skills Jerk. Get some. It does a mind good.
You might consider a few college classes, or read a book or two.
Jus’ sayin.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:44pmTZion, Hamas and Hezbollah are not Iran. This is a fact. Al Qaeda was once supported by America, just like Hamas and Hezbollah are supported by Iran. Is al Qaeda America? Was the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan America? Cease with the obfuscations. When was the last time the nation of Iran attacked any of its neighbors?
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:56pmWoodyee: “The point I was trying to make is that Iran is a political and military destabilizer in the Middle East and have historically given no nation on Earth a reason to disbelieve a threat.”
The point I was trying to make is that Israel is a political and military destabilizer in the Middle East and that it has historically given no nation on Earth a reason to disbelieve a threat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_van_Creveld#Views_on_current_affairs
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:50pm@Jerk
America funded the Afghans to repel the Soviet invasion of their country. At the time they were acting on our behalf and fighting both our battle and theirs. When we stopped funding them they turned to other places for their funding and with new sponsors came new battles and enemies, namely us. We couldn’t engage Russia directly without risking a nuclear response so we sent in someone else. That‘s why Russia didn’t directly engage us in Korea and Vietnam. Delude yourself if you want but all three of those conflicts were major fronts in the Cold War.
If Iran is funding terrorists against Israel it is taking action to attempt to bring about Israel’s demise. That is an act of war just as much as blockading a major harbor or shipping route is an act of aggression. What exists between Israel and Iran now is halfway to becoming what the US and Russia had during the Cold War but with several key differences. For one, for the US, we had very few places nearby that would help the Russians. Cuba was as close as they ever got. Israel is surrounded by countries that are indifferent at best and supportive of Iran at worst. But more importantly, Iran hasn’t acquired the ultimate deterrent. Do you seriously think Iran getting a nuke would be the end of it? With the whole world too scared to stand in their way they’d walk all over everyone. Either we prevent them from getting nukes today or we ensure they can’t use them tomorrow.
Report Post »KevINtampa
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:00pmHistorically speaking, 90% of Palestinian land is now within the Jordanian and Egyptian borders. Israel doesn’t even make up 5% of what their land was. Those who argue for Palestinian “independence” never make any requirements for Jordan or Egypt though. The reason is the same as it’s always been, the Palestinians are always used as proxies by other mid-east countries. Palestine isn’t a region, nor ever a country, as much as it is an idea for a method of giving war legitimacy. This idea and propaganda has been used time and time again, even when there wasn’t an Israel, and it’s completely sad that the ignorance of history is placed on so many they believe the first ounce of propaganda they read, and worse, they then fight for it.
Those in the region have an excuse, they’ve been censored from any historical scripts outlining this very real and often used technique of war. Those in the free world have no excuse for this ignorance if they want to partake in the debate. They are simply lazy anti-Semites living in tandem with Baal. To me, that’s the only way to make sense of their utter ignorance.
That’s the truth. Look it up.
Report Post »Daveed
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:29amOnly God can answer that for Bebe and the other person in power. As the current administration and congress, the house, has confused all Americans also, have made the most stupifying idiotic public responses that leave us scratching our heads in disbelief. Why, if this article is not just propaganda also, would Shimone Perez not want to embarass Barack Obama? Is there one part of the Jewish nation that has a heart for God and another part that’s heart is hardened? Which is BeBe and which is Peres? Has Barack Barry Soetoro Hussien Obama shown an incredible insight into world affairs, he is not even sure how many States are in our union, he is a coward when it comes to showing his true BC, all his college transcripts, his birthright, how he paid for Ivy league education, if he attended at all, his disdain for anything American our values, traditions, our history, wants to make a treaty that spells out our children will be wards of evil, calls us colonialists but I think that was what we were running away from. United Nations so that he may control any uprising against dismantling and destruction of America. I hate what Barry is doing. I will pray for him and about him to God. Our Founding Fathers were Godly honorable men who told the truth and anyone of them would be a better leader than what America has had to suffer and be stuck with since them. Israel is in God’s hands whether anyone stands with her or not. No matter if the legions of hell came against her.
Report Post »Wango
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:26am“almost finally” . . . I guess journalism isn’t dead. I think Bebe should lead the attack himself. He can dress up as Paul Ryan, sneak out his back door, run through the woods to Iran stopping at Appleby’s for some battered jumbo shrimp, and then stand up announce that he’s going to attack. Yeah, that’s a good plan.
Report Post »RANGER1965
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:10pm“almost funny”
I guess Wango‘s since of humor isn’t dead. Just on life support.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:48pmHe’s like a bizarro-Gonzo sometimes
Report Post »proliance
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:24amThis won’t be an “attack on a nuclear site” it will be an all out war. Syria and Iraq let their reactors get bombed and didn’t retaliate. Iran will.
But ask yourself how Israel can strike Iran. Israel doesn’t have any long range aircraft that can reach Iran without refuleling, and their refueling capability is extremely limited. Plug this lat/long into Google Earth to see where the nuke site is located.
34.3734°N 49.2408°E
Look at the countries that Israel will have to overfly. Do they ask prior permission and risk an intelligence leak or do they overlfy without permission and risk getting shot down by Syria/Jordan/Lebanon/Iraq/Turkey?
Or does Israel have a secret treaty with Azerbaijan where they can land their planes after the attack, and possibly launch search and rescue attempts from?
Will the US (Obama) supply tankers for refueling?
Will Netanyahu wait until after the election before he launches an attack to hopefully get a friendlier ally in the US?
Just some things to think about.
Report Post »woodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:50amYou forgot to ask “And, what about Naomi?”
Report Post »RANGER1965
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:21pmThe Saudi’s have granted Israel an Airbase in Tabuk. In fact the Saudi’s have granted Israel overfly rights as well.
However…
There is a rumor that the last talks involving Saudia Arabia, Iran, and Egypt may change that. But currently Israel can strike Iran.
Report Post »OperationNorthwoods
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:24amGod will protect Israel. Oh yea of little faith.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:36amIf he does, then he’s a G-d of evil. Israel is a belligerent, warmongering nation. It was before 722 B.C. and it is today.
Report Post »woodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:48am@the Jerk – Please cite your references. Warmongering on the part of Israel is pretty serious in light of today’s sitrep.
But for the sake of credibility, please stick to post 1948 when responding, or you’ll sound like the anti-religious zealots who claim religion has killed more people than anything since sliced bread, but when you factor in the 20th century alone, they’d be hard-pressed to equal 1/1000 the murders of millions by the god-less since WW2.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:01pmWoodye, I can see why you’d want to skip over the biblical Israel, but it is there for all to read in the Old Testament or Torah. As for the new Israel forged out of terrorism in the 20th century, you should begin with the Stern Gang and Irgun:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avraham_Stern
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks
Report Post »GoodStuff
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:08pm“Israel is a belligerent, warmongering nation”
Oh look, the Paulistinians have arrived.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:37pm@Jerk
Report Post »So to prove Israel is belligerent you cite two terrorist groups, neither of which was ever recognized as being representative of the interests of the Jews nor was either placed in control of the newly formed state. And all this happened before Israel became a state. Lechi (Sten’s gang) was even declared a terrorist organization by Israel in September of 1948 and what little was left of the group was completely eradicated. Under the Prevention of Terrorism Ordinance passed both groups became illegal. Even the Jewish Agency, from which the Israeli government would be formed, condemned the groups.
The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:49pm722 B.C.? I think you’re getting Rome mixed up with Judea.
(but thank you for not calling it “B.C.E.” instead)
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:11pmThe_Cabrito_Goat, no. I’m historically accurate:
Report Post »http://www.zionismontheweb.org/middle_east/Israel/timeline_of_Israel.htm
Al J Zira
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:46pm@OperationNorthwoods: Why would God protect Israel? And please don‘t tell me they’re His chosen people. That ended with the crucifixion of Christ.
Report Post »RANGER1965
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:12amThe dynamic is simple.
Attack now before the election, and you have a cantidate who fully supports you, and a president hamstrung by his need to cultivate the Jewish vote, and at least pretend to support Israel.
If you wait until after the election and Romney wins, then you’re still good.
But if Obama wins then you’re really stuck, because he can now show his true feelings for Israel. …And since military aid, and military cooperation requires executive power and the ok of the commander-in-chief, Obama will completely control our partipation, or lack of it.
It is in Israel’s best interest to attack before November.
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:22amIf Israel attacks, do not be shocked if Obama orders retaliatory strikes against Israel; the hatered he has for them is immense and capable of being unleashed at any moment.
Report Post »LeadNotFollow
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:10am…
Israel is America’s ally, but Barack Hussein Obama hates the Israeli people, so he will not demand that Iran discontinue threatening Israel with nuclear attack.
Obama will not demand that Iran stop building nuclear weapons.
Obama will do nothing, to anger his fellow Muslims in Iran.
Does anyone remember that Obama had America’s nuclear missiles disarmed and ground up into scrap metal?
Does anyone remember that Obama cut funding for the NASA missile defense system, for satellites that are capable of detecting and shooting down foreign missiles, before they reach American soil?
Obama is setting us up for Iran and Russia to attack us.
(Reuters) – President Barack Obama was caught on camera assuring outgoing Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that he will have “more flexibility” to deal with contentious issues like missile defense after the U.S. presidential election.
In my opinion, Obama is a spy and a traitor. He should be impeached and tried for treason.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:41amIsrael is not America’s ally. It is America’s albatross.
Report Post »RobbieTLHughie
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:07amIf Netanyahu decides to attack Iran it will realistically be a disaster for all involved. I think a lot of people here claiming to be religious have lost a giant amount of foresite to what might happen if this actually occured. Millions could die, easily on both sides of this conflict… This is not a sacrafice anyone should be willing to make. We live in 2012 and we can handle this like adults. Iran may be a dangerous state run by a madman but what we should not do is elimate the nuclear plants, if Netanyahu thinks that won’t bring down Hell on him he must be out of his mind.
If he decides to do this he will go down in history, I think as one of the most impossibly ignorant men in history, who doomed his people to destrution. Despite what many here think the Jews have no “Protection of God” and they will die like the rest of us, I would implore Netanyahu to not do this, for the lives of many millions are at stake.
Report Post »woodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:42amI don’t know about that Robbie. In reality Iran has yet to renege on the threat – it‘s just that they haven’t had a smooth row to hoe on the way to nuclear proficiency, but they’ve remained on the road despite the obstacles. They’ve made up for that deficiency by consistently providing arms and personnel to fighters in Egypt, Lybia and now Syria. Every one of the countries that Obammy Inc., LLC has helped will in turn help Iran against the US. And Israel.
Of this we can be sure – leave Israel alone and you’ll be left alone. Threaten her with nukes, and she’d be FOOLISH not to heed the warning and fail to do something about it. You can butter your opinion all you want to make it palatable, but reality is just that – reality.
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:30pmwoodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:42am
They’ve made up for that deficiency by consistently providing arms and personnel to fighters in Egypt, Lybia and now Syria.
=========================================
So has the U.S. though:
April 14, 2011: “U.S. secretly backed Syrian opposition groups, cables released by WikiLeaks show”
Report Post »RobbieTLHughie
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:20pmYou didn’t acknowledge at all the loss of human life that could occur of either one of these countries struck at one another. It would be catastrophic no matter which way it went. The world would lose too many good people, I can‘t stand for that and I’d hope no others would either. We have moved on since the days of Hiroshima and I’d hope we can work together to prevent that again. Ahmadenijad is certainly mad but he still has people who he is responsible to and that must weigh, even on a corrupt conscience.
Report Post »1me2ao
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:03amI like this idea because pm of israel is causing iran to burn through cash reserves to stay on guard. He is literally bankrupting the country with media reports.
Report Post »JOE
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:57amI believe in 12 -22-12 it will happen maybe not the destruction of the world ………but the order of the
Report Post »world the way we know it ………….GOD HELP US ALL~~~~~~~~~!
RobbieTLHughie
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:09amThat was debunked earlier this year and you have no evidence aside from your own belief to back it up.
Report Post »Wango
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:21amROBBIE . . .Evidence? You forgot what site you’re on.
Report Post »TROLLMONGER
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:16pmOh boy. Another naive and uneducated Mayan apocalypse moron. Keep reading your koolaid bible.
Report Post »RobbieTLHughie
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:59pmEnjoy… http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/BibleStudyAndTheology/perspectives/2012-mayan-prophecy-wrong-hensley.aspx?mobile=false and from your own folks no less!
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:47am“and believes that stopping Iran means stopping Iran’s plans to destroy the Israeli state and the Jewish people.”
=============================================
If Iran REALLY wanted to destroy the Jewish people, then there are literally thousands of them living in Iran:
Iran’s Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel
· Our identity is not for sale, say community leaders
12 July 2007
Iran’s Jews have given the country a loyalty pledge in the face of cash offers aimed at encouraging them to move to Israel, the arch-enemy of its Islamic rulers.
The incentives — ranging from £5,000 a person to £30,000 for families — were offered from a special fund established by wealthy expatriate Jews in an effort to prompt a mass migration to Israel from among Iran’s 25,000-strong Jewish community. The offers were made with Israel’s official blessing and were additional to the usual state packages it provides to Jews emigrating from the diaspora.
However, the Society of Iranian Jews dismissed them as “immature political enticements” and said their national identity was not for sale.
“The identity of Iranian Jews is not tradeable for any amount of money,” the society said in a statement. “Iranian Jews are among the most ancient Iranians. Iran’s Jews love their Iranian identity and their culture, so threats and this immature political enticement will not achieve their aim of wiping out the identity of Iranian Jews.”
Report Post »http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/j
SacredHonor1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:09amhttp://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iranjews.html
Unfortunately I think your above article is actually filled with some Iranian propaganda. Life isn’t 100% cheery for Iranian jews. They are treated as second class citizens in their own country. They are limited from traveling, they cannot take their families out of the country, and they have to be very careful to not be accused of being “Zionists” lest the government kills them, sometimes without trial. In places they have been forced to abandon practice of worshipping on Saturdays instead children are made to go to school. Some places they don’t even have head rabbis.
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:24amSacredHonor1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:09am
Life isn’t 100% cheery for Iranian jews.
============================
Maybe so, but they could have taken the money and run to Israel long ago but they didn’t.
Unfortunately, the corporate media never tells us that Iran has the 2nd largest population of Jews living in the Middle East. We only get the propaganda about Ahmadinejad and the next Holocaust delivered to us on a daily basis when its abundantly clear that if that’s really what Iran wanted, then they have the perfect opportunity to start within the confines of their own geographical boundaries but have not done so.
So instead of broadcasting Netanyahu’s sound bytes on a 24/7 basis, then the corporate media should go out and get the other side of the story (from Iran’s Jews) and see what they have to say about all of this.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:30amAlso if you think Dhimmitude is non-apartheid, I have a bridge to sell you.
Also quoting the Guardian on a subject like this is laughable… It‘s pretty much Britain’s most biased of leftist papers. It is full of spin. It’s almost the MSNBC of the paper world…
Any honest discussion of Iran should look at complete picture, and not leave out the negative treatment of “Dhimmis” in Iran…
Keep in mind I don’t recommend following the Daily Mail 100% either. It it does suffer from a bit of editorial spin. It is after all a British tabloid.
The Daily Telegraph is a more balanced newspaper in my opinion (though it and Daily Mail are generally in agreement on topics that count). But as a paper it is highly respected over there. Including scholary and academically. Keep in mind that it is still pretty much opposite of the Guardian on topics. About as conservative as you can get in Britain… More honest than most American media.
But no paper is perfect.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:33amSeriously if they had “tried to take the money and run”, more than likely they would have been captured and killed by Iranian authorities… Like most people accused of having ‘zionist’ symphasies there… Actually the few that did attempt to ‘accept the money’ IIRC were killed. But you won’t hear that from a paper like the Guardian.
It’s not as simple or black and white as you make it out to be…
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:43amAlso how do you expect for a group to be ‘honest’ and tell the truth about their position in the country when they are under fear of death if they say the wrong thing? They are literally under rifle point…
Literally the fact is we reliably know about the negative side of dhimmitude in Iran, because of the few iranian jews that found a way to escape!
It’s not much different than Cubans who escape, and tell us what life is like under the Cuban regime…
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:05pmhttp://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007463
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/CzechRepublic/Theresienstadt/TheresienstadtGhetto/History/RedCrossVisit.html
Also dictators controlling what outside countries see, is a propaganda tactic that’s been going on a long time… A good example is the Red Cross visits to Theresienstadt where the Red Cross and journalists were only able to see “good” treatment of the prisoners. They saw children being served good food, and candy. They were shown to have fun and games. The ghetto was made to look beautiful with planted flowers and trees.
However th darkside was that as soon as Red Cross left all that was stripped from them. It was purely a facade… Also while the children were being shown to be served food, they were never allowed to actually eat that food. Soldiers threatened the children telling them to smile for the Red Cross, and if they didn’t they would be severely punished. If they talked to the Red Cross explaining how they were really treated they were also threatened with torture or death.
When the Red Cross/jouranlists were away, the families were ‘deported’ to other camps.
It had these false showings to Red Cross, to portray a sense of normalcy to outsiders… Yet, in reality the Jews were being mistreated…
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:07pmSacredHonor1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:33am
It’s not as simple or black and white as you make it out to be…
==========================
Agreed:
“Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them with Hebrew schools. It has two kosher restaurants, and a Jewish hospital, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish representative in the Iranian parliament. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles, its reading room decorated with a photograph of the Ayatollah Khomeini.”
Report Post »IRAN: Life of Jews Living in Iran
SacredHonor1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:31pmhttp://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2003/March/Jews/
This article has a very detailed look into life and threatened or existing persecution of Jews under the Iranian regime… Written by “Pooya Dayanim is president of the Iranian Jewish Public Affairs Committee (IJPAC).”
http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/14/opinion/choksy-iran-zoroastrian/index.html?hpt=hp_bn9
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/11/iran-zoroastrians-often-forgotten-victims-of-systematic-institutionalized-abuse-since-islamic-revolu.html
Life for Zorastrians isn’t fun and games either…
“Protections offered by the Islamic Republic’s constitution have been rendered meaningless in practice. Not surprisingly, the daily regimen of discrimination makes Zoroastrians feel wholly unwelcome in their Iranian homeland. Only between 35,000 and 90,000 now remain in a country of approximately 74 million citizens — and, fearing persecution, many do not readily identify themselves as Zoroastrians.”
Just having a single member in parliment doesn‘t mean they aren’t still persecuted… Hell, even the nazis put Jewish elders into special councels.. But their job was mostly involved picking and choosing who to deport from the ghettos…
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:39pmhttp://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2003/March/Jews/
This article has a very detailed look into life and threatened or existing persecution of Jews under the Iranian regime… Written by “the president of the Iranian Jewish Public Affairs Committee (IJPAC).”
http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/14/opinion/choksy-iran-zoroastrian/index.html?hpt=hp_bn9
Life for Zorastrians isn’t fun and games either…
“Protections offered by the Islamic Republic’s constitution have been rendered meaningless in practice. Not surprisingly, the daily regimen of discrimination makes Zoroastrians feel wholly unwelcome in their Iranian homeland. Only between 35,000 and 90,000 now remain in a country of approximately 74 million citizens — and, fearing persecution, many do not readily identify themselves as Zoroastrians.”
Just having a single member in parliment doesn‘t mean they aren’t still persecuted… Hell, even the nazis put Jewish elders into special councils. But their job was mostly involved picking and choosing who to deport from the ghettos…
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:32pmSacredHonor1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:33am
Like most people accused of having ‘zionist’ symphasies there… Actually the few that did attempt to ‘accept the money’ IIRC were killed.
=======================================
Huh???:
—————————————–
“Whatever they say abroad is lies – we are comfortable in Iran – if you‘re not political and don’t bother them then they won’t bother you,” he explains.
His customer, middle-aged housewife Giti agrees, saying she can easily talk to her two sons in Tel Aviv on the telephone and visit them.
“It’s not a problem coming and going; I went to Israel once through Turkey and once through Cyprus and it was not problem at all,” she says.
Gone are the early days of the Iranian revolution when Jews – and many Muslims – found it hard to get passports to travel abroad.”
Report Post »http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5367892.stm
SacredHonor1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:37pmhttp://newsflavor.com/world/middle-east/persecuted-iranian-jews/
Contrary to the claims made by Tehran’s apologists [particularly those on the political left like Roger Cohen], Iranian Jews suffer under one of the worst forms of persecution under Iran’s Islamic regime.
Over and over again, we keep on hearing about how life for Iranian Jews is swell to the point that, to many people, it became seen as accepted fact that life is wonderful for Jews in Iran. The narrative is that life in Iran is great for Jews and that they join their “fellow Iranians” in protesting against Israeli “atrocities”. And, according to the narrative, life is so great for them that many Jews chose to stay in Iran despite Israeli “attempts” to “bribe” them to come to Israel. It’s used as “proof” that the Iranian regime is not anti-Semitic; but just anti-Zionist, with the famous “I don’t hate Jews. I hate Zionists” line that is used by anti-Semites in order to disguise their anti-Semitism as legitimate criticism of Israel.
Read more in Middle East
Report Post »« Massive Unexpected Drill in Israel Leaves Locals Stunned and Syria FumingReal Footage of Usa Attacking Baghdad »
This narrative thrives among politically correct left-wing Islam apologists and apologists of Iran’s regime. It thrives among Neturai Karta, a group of anti-Israel Orthodox Jews, who believe that Israel’s existence contradicts Judaism and who collaborate with notorious anti-Semites like Ahmadine
BurntHills
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:34amGod bless Bibi.. we can just hear him …”watch THIS hand, watch THIS hand…”
Report Post »AUsername
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:24amI stand with America and the Troops and i don‘t want them to die for Israel’s wars, they should only risk their lives for America.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:35amThen maybe we should have sent all those British and French troops helping us in Afghanistan and Iraq home. That way more Americans could die for America’s war instead of foreigners. Sound about right to you?
Report Post »woodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:39amReally? You would want to abandon the ONLY consistent friend and ally our people have had in the Middle East since it’s inception in1948?
I wouldn’t give you the dried road-shredded arse of a 6 week old road-kill rat off a California freeway in the middle of a heatwave in summer for a NYC Lib Jew, but they’re far and few between the number of OUR OWN that hold dual citizenship in Israel and our US.
I don’t disparage your opinion, I just hope you don’t have many neighbors who might count on you…for anything.
Report Post »AUsername
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:47amour friend? what friend constantly drags you into wars? there using us like many other countries, taking advantage of us. my neighbors and community does stuff for me and i do for them, loyalty to country is what this is about and not letting another country destroy your country or your fellow men (troops).
Report Post »RamonPreston
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:51amWould you turn your back on your brother if he got in a fight? Nations are only families grown large. The nation of Israel are the descendents of Judah the son of Jacob; the United States and the British commonwealth are the descendants of Joseph, the brother of Judah. Skipped that one in your Sunday school classes didn’t they?
Report Post »QuincySmith
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:01amAUsername;
Perhaps you are not talking of Israel, but what wars did Israel drag us into?
Report Post »AUsername
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:43amIraq and now they want us to go after Iran and Syria.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:43amIsrael stands by us or we stand by Israel?/What business do we have in the MD except for oil? So far as Israel being run by Jews..it is not..try to find the faith of Benjamin Netanyahu.. They are Communist/Zionists..google the Blaze..Israeli bill would make it illegal to draw comparisons to Nazism..a 2,000 dollar fine..Now feature them doing that here in America..The Rothschilds behind the 13 family unFederal Reserve..pick our Presidents..and get rid of our Presidents if they go against them..THink Abraham Lincoln..John and his brother Bobby Kennedy and President Garfield..and an failed attempt was made on Andrew Jackson. He got them kicked out..Woodrow Wilson allowed them back in..and lamented on it upon leaving office..700 billion in TARP paid to Sharia Compliant Banks..which fund organizations funding terrorism. Israel says we didn’t see 9/11 coming..well..not all of us..They certainly did..and had a birds eye view as it happened..were dancing around and celebrating..Investigation inoto 9/11
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28tE0fKpISM
Rev 2:9 I know those of you who call yourselves Jews who are not..but you are the synogogue of Satan.The Rothschilds are said to be from the Tribe of Dan..called the serpent in the Bible.
These are the torah observant and obedient to God Jews.They are against Zionism. Yes they are a small sect of Jews. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNLJY-x1ssc
The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:44amIt’s a farce to call Israel our friend. Israel has been a taker of American lives and wealth since its founding in 1948.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:08pm@Ashes
Report Post »You keep mentioning that bill as proof that everyone in the Israeli government is socialist. However, you never tell us which party or people proposed that bill and never mention whether it passed or not. You want to prove that Bibi, who isn’t part of the socialist Labor party, is a socialist? Then prove it. Don’t pull this guilt by association bull. By your logic Ron Paul supported Obamacare because he was a Congressman when it passed.
ashestoashes
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:07pm@TZION..No..I did not call Netanyahu a Socialist..I called him a Communist..The bill would not have been presented if the people hadn’t been comparing the state of Israel to the Nazis..Why would the government of Israel propose such a bill if it were not so..and whether or not it passed is of no relevance..To find out if the Jews feel that they are living in a Communist state..google Jews against ZIonism..I provided a utube link for that Here is another..
Report Post »http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/differencejudzion.html
I am a believer in peace..and I believe that the only way to peace is through Jesus Christ..Son of God.
I believe that every war from Hitler’s killing of the 13 million in Germany..the Russian Revolution in (which 20 million Russians by the Rothchild controlled Bolsheviks).the War of 1812..the American Civil War..the 1rst and 2nd world wars and the impending 3rd world war have one thing in common..the Rothschids..whom I understand have instigated and funded all sides..Go figure.I stand with Jesus. Not the anti-Christ..The Jews say we have made Israel our golden calf..I say we have made Netanyahu our “god”
tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:28pm@ashes
Your entire argument is speculative at best and still has yet to tie Bibi directly to any of it. You have ascribed a motive to people that fits your argument. How can you be so sure of why the bill was proposed? And how is its not passing irrelevant? If it didn’t pass then the majority opposed it. To say that’s irrelevant defies all reason. The only reason for you to refuse to acknowledge it is that it is contrary to point you wish to argue. So rather than acknowledge it and face the possibility you’re wrong you declare it to be unimportant.
The fact is Ashes, you’re what I would term a conspiracy disciple. Your views on this conspiracy nonsense are taken purely on faith without any tangible proof that you yourself can attest to. It’s your religion. Youtube and other baseless internet sources are your bible. And you will twist the facts to preserve your narrative even if it means claiming evidence is fabricated without proof, dismissing key facts, and shattering Occam’s Razor into a million pieces.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:48pm@2TZION I can turn the argument you just made against you.. We listen to a Rothschild owned media..The videos and articles are the voice of the people. Saul Alinsky tactics..Conspiracy Theories will remain just that..even when proven true..I understand now that through the Freedom of Information Act..A Salt Lake City Attorney obtained docucments revealing that The Clinton Administration’s Eric Holder..gave orders to the FBI to give bombs to TIm McVeigh and Terry Nichols for the Oklahoma City Bombing..and that they were involved in Ruby Ridge and Waco for the purpose of causing a revolt of Evangelicals and Militias so that the Justice Dept could crush them.
Report Post »If you go to this article on the Blaze and read the 4 posts of Colt1860..you might just understand about the Conspiracy Theories and how our government works.. Colt supplies the URLS.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/wikileaks-americans-being-monitored-by-secret-surveillance-system-trapwire/
woodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:24amWhile Obammy Inc. LLC stroke the erect members of our enemies, they coalesce in combat zones like the streets of Tunisia, Yemen, Egypt, Libya and now Syria. Despite the fact that in each case, “rebels” have been drawn to the hired guns of Al Qaeda and to the Muslim Bro’s., Obammy Inc., LLC. not ONLY provide verbal encouragement, they provide material and military assistance, and they provide assistance by intentionally ignoring the elephant in the room – nuclear IRAN.
BB and Israel have been FORCED by the UN and it’s allies in Obammy Inc., LLC., to decide it’s future – an act of war in self-defense or annihilation as promised by the enemies that surround their tiny country. May God be with BB and the Israeli people whatever they choose, because it’s a SURE BET that Obammy Inc., LLC won’t be.
Report Post »jkronc
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:19amI stand with Israel. They should do whatever it takes to protect themselves, and forget about trying to protect this administration or any other.
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:25amI agree. If Israel believes it needs to do this then so be it. How many times does Iran have to say they’ll wipe them off the map before Israel acts to prevent it? However, it is Israels fight, not ours. I don‘t want my son coming home in a box for someone else’s responsibility.
Report Post »Polarized America
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:56amI’m sure no American lives will die if Israel strikes Iran ( in Iran ) But terrorism is another story,
And it’s not only lives, it’s our treasure.
“”A Reuters survey in March found that most Americans would support such action, by their government or Israel’s, should there be evidence Iran was building nuclear weapons – even if the result was a rise in gas prices.”"
Report Post »randy
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:17amThe paper says Israeli officials are worried military action during that time could embarrass President Barack Obama as he faces Republican opponent Mitt Romney.
Who gives a rats a$$ about embarrassing Obama!
Report Post »The MAJORITY of AMERICANS are already embarrassed with him.
QuincySmith
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:15amOur fearful president: “I mean think about it. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don’t pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us….You know, Iran, they spend one-one hundredth of what we spend on the military. If Iran ever tried to pose a serious threat to us, they wouldn’t stand a chance.And we should use that position of strength that we have to be bold enough to go ahead and listen. That doesn’t mean we agree with them on everything. We might not compromise on any issues, but at least we should find out other areas of potential common interest, and we can reduce some of the tensions that has caused us so many problems around the world.
He later said: “Iran is a grave threat. It has an illicit nuclear program. It supports terrorism across the region and militias in Iraq. It threatens Israel’s existence. It denies the Holocaust…”
Iran is 77 times larger than Israel, based on either oblama view, it poses a clear and present danger to Israel.
Report Post »abunchofbullshit
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:05amHey Individualism, I heard they were giving more handouts at your local state office, better get in line. You aren’t on the Daily Kos sight, you must have found the wrong place! “If I mention”, a typical Harry Reid approach to ‘get it out there’! Go ahead, mention some facts you mental midget! How about chewing on this…..the Ramadamadingdong meeting at the White House with our has-been President, now there is something to jump on! Tell me these clowns aren‘t ’in our government’! Wake up, but then again I think you know exactly what you are trying to do with these stupid little quips that I have seen you put here and on Breitbart yesterday. GFY
Report Post »qpwillie
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:13am@abunchofbullshit
Report Post »When you breed progressives with an anarchists, they produce libertarians.
Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:22am@QP,
That’s simply not true. Libertarians aren‘t anarchists and they certainly aren’t progressive. We are what conservatives claim to be. Y’all claim to want freedom but you vote for totalitarians. Y‘all claim to want smaller gov’t but you vote for people who grow it. Y’all want fiscal responsibility but you vote for people who spend like sailors.
You can hate on us all you want, it‘s just sad that you can’t grasp the lunacy of your attacks on us.
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:43am‘BARDIAN. “We are what conservatives claim to be.”
Horse crap. Being a thrifty-Liberal (fiscally Conservative and socially Liberal) is NOT what Conservatives claim to be. That’s why Rothbardian islolationist, extreme anti-war zealots (like Paul, like you) are left holding their peckers in their hands time and time again. You are NOT what America wants. You are part-time Conservatives. The voter proves your Rothbardian Libertarian ideology sham time and time again.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:48amEveryone I have ever talked to has turned out to be a wack job, wanting almost anarchy, legal drugs, and are the types that get pissed and vote democratic or 3rd party out of spite giving the democrats the victory.
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:13amTIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:43am
Horse crap. Being a thrifty-Liberal (fiscally Conservative and socially Liberal) is NOT what Conservatives claim to be.
==========================================
President George Washington was a Libertarian:
“Excessive partiality for one foreign nation (Israel) and excessive dislike of another (Iran) cause those whom they actuate (TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12) to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots (aka ‘Paulbots) who may resist the intrigues of the favorite (Israel) are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes (Netanyahu) usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests.
The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible.”
Report Post »-President George Washington, September 19, 1796
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp
Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:46pm@swampy,
That’s kinda funny. The legalizing drugs things really gets the conservatives. Despite evidence that the policy doesn’t work they adhere to a doctrine of banning them. The amusing irony of it is watching conservatives battle liberals over gun control on the other side of the coin. Oh that’s different right?
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:47pmI always laught at “extreme anti-war zealots”. Always a hoot.
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:43pmKID. I see none of your compatriots corrected your willful and purposeful incorrect statement. George Washington was NOT a Libertarian… he was (as were the other Founders) a Constitutionalist. And they weren’t isolationists (ooops, non-interventionists) either. But that’s okay…. you go ahead and listen to Paul and parrot that nonsense he preaches.
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:52pm‘BARDIAN. Pretty pithy way to describe you “BARDS (zealots). I also like using the word “cult” as well as “acolytes” an appropriate description whenever the opportunity arises…
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:53pmPlease explain how Washington and Jefferson were not non-interventionalists. Also, as constitutionalists, how would they feel about a decade of undeclared wars?
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:20pm‘BARDIAN. Well like Paul stating that he happens to believe the Founders were Libertarians (which is incorrect), the quotes isolationists like Paul use are from Washington‘s 1796 Farewell Address and Thomas Jefferson’s 1801 first inaugural which advocated “entangling alliances with none.” The advice was excellent for their time ‘BARD, but not for all time, and the Founders fully understood the importance of foreign alliances. With substantial foreign assistance, the Founders were able to take a disorderly, outnumbered and ill-equipped army, and to defeat the greatest empire on earth at the time.
More than anyone, they knew that without foreign alliances, America would have remained a British colony. The Continental Army initially had only 3% of the country’s support, was completely under-funded by its own people, but not by France and other allies.
Numerous foreigners embarked for America as soon as the Declaration of Independence was published. Pierre L’Enfant (who designed Washington, D.C.) and the Marquis de Lafayette both enlisted in 1776.
The assistance was essential. Washington lost the majority of battles he fought during the Revolution, and there was no power to tax. The Continental Army was paid at one time because of a large loan from Holland in 1782.
Con’t…
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:24pm‘BARDIAN. (Con’t) The war cost France one billion livre tournois, and the first American Congress listed a $13 million war debt to France. This is equivalent to $164 billion today, and the war debt greatly contributed to the French financial crisis. It was a major factor in the French Revolution which overthrew the monarchy in the same year Washington was inaugurated. Ironically, Britain, not France, became America’s major trading partner after the war.
The isolationists like Ron Paul claim the Founders were in agreement, but Washington, John Adams and Alexander Hamilton became bitter foes of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. Their conflict was the beginning of our two party system.
Washington was identified with the Federalist Party which was trying to establish an Army and Navy. James Madison was in the forefront of the opposition, and instead wanted to hire the Portuguese Navy to protect America. He was later president during the War of 1812 and realized his mistake. He then advovated a strong defense and also reversed his earlier oppositon to a central bank.
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:39pm‘BARDIAN. I could go on and on and on proving my points, but the fact is… you folks already know the truth to these statements and your questions but are just unwilling to accept the facts because Ron Paul hasn’t take the dog collar with the zapping device off of your necks.I heard when he croaks… the zap feature becomes inert… ssshhhh, be vewy, vewy quite… and pass it along. lol
As far as what the Founders would say in relation to your question? Ask Ron Paul to channel them for you in his next meet the Founder round table discussion and seance…
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:10pmTIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:24pm
James Madison was in the forefront of the opposition, and instead wanted to hire the Portuguese Navy to protect America. He was later president during the War of 1812 and realized his mistake. He then advovated a strong defense and also reversed his earlier oppositon to a central bank.
===================================================
The only reason that he reversed his opposition to a central bank is because America was nearly bankrupt from the War of 1812:
1812: The First Test of Debt
The War of 1812 was financed mainly through the use of borrowed funds. Total public debt increased from $45.2 million on January 1, 1812, to $119.2 million as of September 30, 1815.
http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/history/1800.htm
In that sense, James Madison was absolutely correct:
“Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few.”
-James Madison, Political Observations, April 20, 1795
You go bankrupt when nobody will lend you money anymore:
Closing the ‘Collapse Gap’: the USSR was better prepared for collapse than the US
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:52ami see it opposite – i think an israel/iran war would actually help Obama in the polls
Report Post »qpwillie
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:01am@soybomb315_II
Don’t you hope?
Sorry soybomb, most Americans believe we should stand by our allies.
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:02amThat’s the case historically,every sitting president gets support in time of war and Barry would like the boost in the polls.People getting killed in war really is of no significance to the narcissist in chief,getting reelected is the goal.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:10amI think Obama would do better in the polls if he didn’t get involved. it would rally his base together towards you know how big the anti war folks are.
Report Post »Sirfoldallot
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:26amyup, just hold on Isreal. Plz don’t help out the nut job adminstration.
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:28amby having iran/israel at war, Obama would get the historical support that occurs whenever there is a war (country patriotism/solidarity). At the same time, he would have the support of the majority of people in this country who are not ready for another voluntary war.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:36amDon’t the war loving neo cons stay Republican anyways, i think they hate Obama enough right now not to suddenly go over to him. But also the economy is pretty bad and when it gets bad people become more self caring and nationalistic so a war could potentially hurt someone in times like that, but i am not sure whether its that time yet.
Report Post »justangry
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:52amDon’t do it, Netanyahu. I don’t think anything would rally support against Israel more than a preemptive strike. I believe too many people will suffer. They’ll attempt to close that choke point in the Strait of Hormuz and things will escalate quickly. Maybe that’s it. They close the strait and it draws us into the conflict.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:38amIran could end this at any time. They want it to escalate. So does Russia. Israel won’t be given a choice.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:52amIran hasn’t done a thing to Israel to escalate it.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:55amIran sponsors terrorism against Israel and its citizens. That’s practically an act of war. Strangely you have yet to respond to that point. You claim Russia never used nukes and you’re right. But they did use the threat of nukes to bully the rest of the world. Iran already is trying to control the Middle East through terror. Nukes would make them untouchable.
Report Post »justangry
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:04pmYa, it‘s always someone else’s fault. I still believe it will only cause human suffering. Not to the idiots in charge, they’ll be fine. It will cause suffering to people that are just trying to live their lives and raise a family in peace. Both Israeli and Iranian innocents will die for the ego’s of hawkish leaders. It‘s only the people that don’t have to fight that always push this nonsense.
Report Post »christhefanatic
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:14pmIn a Teletubby world isolationism would be the way to go. The reality is that Russia, China, the muslim world …all of them are hands-on kind of guys.
Report Post »I know nothing at all about military strategy, and since the time of Vietnam I have never really understood the logic of sending troops anywhere. We have technicians sitting behind computers who with a push of some buttons can make a location on the other side of the world “go away”.
I heard an interview with Barry Goldwater, shortly before he died, in which he said that, had he been elected, North Vietnam would have surrendered…or it would be an uninhabited swamp to this day. Made sense to me then…makes sense to me now.
This world is not made out of people like you…people who want peace, people who believe“thou shall not kill” and just want to be left alone. It is made out of people who want you dead.
Am I rambling? Yes, I am. Sorry.
America First Forever!..and may all who fight her go to hell.
KidCharlemagne
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:49pmtzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:55am
Iran sponsors terrorism against Israel and its citizens.
=========================================
You were saying?:
January 11, 2012: “Iranian scientist involved in nuclear program killed in Tehran bomb attack”
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:49pm@Kid
Report Post »So Iran sponsors the targeted killing of Israeli tourists, the rocket bombardment of towns and villages, the bombing of schools, marketplaces, and even hospitals and your response to me pointing this out is to indicate that a scientist working to develop nuclear weapons for the government that funds these acts was the subject of a targeted assassination? Is that supposed to justify it? Next you’ll tell me that the response to the Trayvon Martin case was justified. Or are you one of those antisemitic types that tries to justify the Holocaust as being “retribution” for some nonviolent protest on the part of some American Jews against Germany?
justangry
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 6:17pmTzion, All the attacks on one another are very bad indeed. An all out war will be much worse. It’s a disgusting business. I’d urge everyone to put the past attrocities behind them and work towards peace. It doesn’t matter who started it, who was dirtier in the fight, or who stole whose land when. War will only lead to suffering for all involved PERIOD.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:56pm@justangry
Report Post »Do you think I want war? Of course not. But as you should very well know, peace is a two way street. Unless both sides want it it will never be realized. Israel has tolerated quite a lot from Iran without launching a full scale response but even Israel’s patience has its limits. Israel has been under almost constant attack since its inception but you can count the number of offensive wars they’ve launched on two hands. Israel doesn’t seek war or start wars, but it does do everything it can to win them.
justangry
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 12:03am@Tzion, I’ve always known you to be a rational and decent fella, so no I don’t believe you want a war. I do believe it’s easy as humans to let emotions get the best of us and too many people on both sides want revenge for the injustices they see. I believe the cost of that revenge will be greater than anyone can imagine while they’re emotions are going haywire.
Report Post »RIGHTHOOK
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:48amBan Ki-moon has invited Obama to join Ahmadinejad, Morsi at a VIP lunch on opening day of U.N. General Assembly in NY.
Report Post »Yup, always good foreign relations to have a meal with our Islamic enemy and one that will draw the USA in with clever charisma and then jam the dagger in our back while hugging. This administration is on the enemy’s team as many of of realize. OMG 2012
servant100
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:08pmActually…since Obama is the puppet of Soros…you need to look to the source… One of Soros’ plans leading to his achievement of an “open society” is the creation of the worldwide Islamic caliphate the meekly operates under his control as the new world ruler. If this harks back to the Christian concept of the anti or fake christ…the similarities are so obviously as to be intuitively clear. There is a super (beyond) natural element at work here that should be obvious to even the most cynical observer…
“There is more on heaven and earth my dear Horatio than is contained in your philosophy…”
Report Post »RIGHTHOOK
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:02pmServ – I am inclined to agree! This last 3+ years has been an eyeopener for me who previously went about my business and figured life ebbs and flows or “the pendulum swings”. No longer the case. BO and his Marxist regime have rocked the USA and everyone should take notice. This county could simply evaporate.
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:48amI stand with Netanyahu. When a maniacal regime, like Iran’s, says they want to annihilate you, you should listen and take counter action immediately.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:42amIf i mentioned what that country was doing to certain group of people and the legality of the state and what they would be doing i would be advocating war.
Report Post »Steelhead
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:49amthe election is getting closer and the neocons are trying to whip the evangelicals into another frenzy
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:58amnice icon indi. couple more weeks until the reinforcements arrive
Report Post »QuincySmith
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:59amWhat’s stopping you?
Report Post »RepubliCorp
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:59amPalestinian loving Ron Paul, the clear choice for the NeoLib.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:19pmit was Mr Bush you neo con hero who told Israel to give up Gaza to appease the Palestinians.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:36pm@collectivism
Your most recent comment was a complete waste. Do you really think any of us care what Bush did? I don’t know one person who says that the Gaza pullout was a good solely because Bush suggested it. Guess what? Bush was mistaken.
Maybe you should double check the meaning of hypocrisy. Generally it means contradicting yourself not someone else you disagree with. For example, you choose the name “Individualism” and proceed to espouse collectivist ideologies. You hate the military for being a tool of fascism yet admire Ron Paul for his years of service. I could on but that would be redundant.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:34amGet ready to boycott Israel and get everyone you can to as well, this country needs to get our of our goverment once in for all.
Report Post »DoomsdayProphet
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:47amHow much do you make an hour to wait for posts? You’re pretty pathetic. Seriously? As far as I am concerned, Israel should take em all out. You should boycott oxygen.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:51amif they do than they are showing they are bullies and the IDF is the IOF.
Report Post »Hobbs57
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:55amYou have to be a 12 year old , yes ?? How do you believe your libertarian utopia could exist in this day and age if the middle east is absent our strongest ally ?? As I have stated in the past, your kind is no different than the intellectual elite’s of the left. All of you ideology and philosophy is purely based in theory, with no actual proof that such a state could exist in reality. World history points to the fact humans will never allow such a state to exist. As a matter of fact, it wasn’t until the US became a super power, that the world has been able to function in peace. Toke another bro, off to never never land …
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:56amSo are you not going to buy from Motorola, Microsoft, or Cisco? All three have their development centers in Israel. Motorola even invented the cell phone in Israel.
Report Post »Steelhead
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:57amdoomsday for profit- sounds like you want it all to end,why?
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:58amhttp://www.inminds.com/boycott-brands.html
here are a list of companies and products for a start.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:03amwe may not be able to 100 percent get them out but we can do enough damage so their economy takes a hit and they pay attention to our message, to stay out of our politics.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:05amWhile your at it, you should recall that it was in Israel that voicemail and IM were both invented and that Intel also has facilities there. Maybe you should just throw your computer out the window right now. At least then we wouldn’t have to listen to collectivist viewpoints. Your name is an insult to every true conservative out there. Even your hero Ron Paul would be ashamed. At least he believes in not getting involved instead of boycotting a country for acting in its own interest.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:15amactually its not for acting in its own interests its for dragging our country to do its dirty work and we need to stand up against that.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:23am@Collectivism
Report Post »Showing your true colors now? No judging people on an individual basis for “Individualism”. All Israelis are evil, all companies that do business with Israel are evil, and everyone who works for a company that does business in or with Israel deserves to lose their job. And you seriously expect us to believe that you support the free market system? You’re just a socialist whose upset because your not on the receiving end (welfare recipients) or are one of the ones who people pay to do absolutely nothing except pretend to care.
TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:23amHOBBS. Excellent post. There was a time when Libertarians were held in a higher esteem and even Reagan praised them “briefly.” They were Libertarian-Conservatives.
Reagan noticed a change… a shift… and started to pull away from their new strain (Rothbardian Libertarians). This is what we have now with the likes of INDI and others here with their “extreme” anti-war zealotry and dangerous isolationist musings while hiding behind the Constitution and touting a thrifty economic platform as a ruse.
Report Post »QuincySmith
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:29amI only saw four companies that I would buy from, however; I believe I’ll have a Coke with my chocolate (Nestle), followed by some yogurt (Danone) and later a Big Mac.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:29amits simple don’t buy goods made in Israel simple as that. their goverment like ours is corrupt and treats their people like criminals.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:33am@collectivism
So attacking Iran isn’t Israel acting in its own interests? Like to see you explain what is. Fact is if you knew anything about history you’d know that every country tries to find allies in times of war. Britain reached out in WWII. Germany got the support of the Swiss and Japanese in the same war. America reached out for allies when invading Afghanistan, Vietnam, Iraq (both times), and many others. Why is Israel suddenly evil for acting the same way everyone else does? The same exact way we ourselves act. Even Iran has allies in the form of Russia, China, and Syria and that’s not counting all the terrorists they sponsor.
Every country in the modern world asks for assistance, military or otherwise, when faced with war. Yet only Israel deserves to be boycotted for doing so?
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:41amattacking Iran is fascist war monger interests not the people of America or Israel, Iran has not threatened them and has never attacked another country. Iran minds their own business and look at pakistan and ussr they had them and never used them to. if they use them they know they will get nuked back.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:47am@Collectivism
So Israel‘s government is corrupt so we shouldn’t buy from those PRIVATE companies that aren’t part of the government. By that logic the rest of the world should boycott us. By your own admission our government is also corrupt. That’s REALLY individualistic of you Collectivism. Punish the collective for the crimes of the few individuals. Why didn’t our founders think of that one?
Oh and by the way, “our message”? There is no “our”. There’s you and your elitist ideas that you should be able to decide which companies succeed and fail. You don’t try to get people thinking for themselves, only thinking like you. You want your words to be reality. You‘re just an Obama wannabe who couldn’t get people to idolize him.
Report Post »christhefanatic
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:53amConsidering that Obama and Hillary just turned Libya and Egypt over to the muslim brotherhood and, one assumes, will do likewise in Syria, Israel should consider sending a covert IDF team to Washington.
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:54amTIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:23am
HOBBS. Excellent post. There was a time when Libertarians were held in a higher esteem and even Reagan praised them “briefly.”
==================================
That was before Iran-Contra though.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:55amboycott those who are hurting your country and getting your troops killed. that is the peaceful way to tell them to stop and money gets their attention. stand up for your country and don‘t let another country’s goverment take advantage of you. if a product comes form Israel don’t buy it simple until Israel gets out of our politics for good. its about protecting your country.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:00am@Collectivism
You really are ignorant aren’t you? During the Cold War the US and the USSR were both building up nukes to keep the other from using them and to prevent either from engaging the other directly. Meanwhile Russia used the imposed impotence of the US as an opportunity to do as it pleased by taking over half of Europe and much of Asia. What finally stopped them was when Reagan threatened, but never actually implemented, a plan that would neutralize the USSR’s ability to use its nukes against us. Unable to keep up, they collapsed.
Iran is no different. They already fund and sponsor terrorism against Israel and the US which makes them an enemy to any clear minded individual (you collectivist don’t count). Give them nukes and Israel will be castrated because any attempt to interfere with Iran’s actions would provoke a nuclear response. You think the Straits of Hormuz are a source of tension now? Wait until everyone is too frightened to stand up to Iran’s threats to close them.
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:06amKID. Iran-Contra? Dig a little deeper KID and do your homework on the USS Liberty too before you start spouting THAT nonsense as a follow-up…
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:22am“During the Cold War the US and the USSR were both building up nukes to keep the other from using them and to prevent either from engaging the other directly.” Yeah and Iran doesn’t want any more countries trying to take them over, so there doing it for their defense. if you threaten to bomb them like USA and Israel are doing it will only remind them in the first place of why there doing it, for the defense of their country. Iran won’t nuke anyone unless they get attacked.
Report Post »Look4DBigPicture
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:28pm@Individualism
It must be nice living in that naive world of yours. For someone who fancies the idea of individualism, you’re clearly standing up for the wrong side freedom. Wake up from your dream world and learn the history of both Iran and Israel.
To simplify this where even you might understand … The current leaders of Iran (not the average Iranian) want to annihilate all infidels (including moderate Muslims) in all countries in the world not adhering to Sharia Law. These are not rational people … they’re dangerous idealogues very similar to Stalin and Hitler. Israel and USA are freedom loving countries believing in the rights of all religious practices, therefore we are their biggest targets. Israel has always been America’s most faithful ally, and we don’t turn out back on allies.
Israel targeting Iran’s nukes and weaponry is a far more desirable means of crippling their capabilities than starving or destroying the livelihoods of average Iranians.
Report Post »WAKEUPUSA2012
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:45pmTime_to_B_A_Disinfo_whore
Better to hid behind the constutition, than behind picture that says “combat survivor” what kind of self serving BS is that? Did you not get enough love as a child? Do you want the world to know how badass you are? You cant be a man and keep all your “badassness” to yourself? No I suspect your a lying chicken hawk. Anyone who makes sure everyone knows they served, most likely never served.
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:09pmWAKEUP(GOBACKTOSLEEP). The real Vets on here have to distinguish themselves from the fraudulent ones (Ron Paul posers) who will say anything, do anything to make Paul look like America‘s and our Military’s saviour… even game donations to make it look like Paul is the fighting man’s favorate… lol.
Out of the many Paul supporters who have come and gone here and who claim/claimed to have Military experience. I can probably count on one hand those who may have (based on what they’ve written) and those who are just plain FOS. If you Ron Paul insurgents are going to make arguments, claims and blather on about chicken hawks, this and chicken hawk that… expect to be challenged and identified for what you and most of your lying and posturing ilk are by those that actually took the Oath and “proudly” Served our country and have absolutely no problem talking about it so you may learn you shameful and disrespectful twerp.
Now be gone with you trainee and thank a Soldier, Airman, Sailor and Marine for their Service.
Report Post »WAKEUPUSA2012
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:56pmLol Ive never claimed to anything but what I am. You on the other hand have to make sure people know exactly who you are. Dont worry. We do. Another dumbass whos (fake) Patriotism has been used and expolited. You got some real cute remarks, but no meat. Just this and that which weve all heard before. IM A VET IM THE REASON YOUR BREATHING. I CREATED THE HEVANS AND THE EARTH. Lol its so pathetic. “combat survivor”
HAHAHAHAHAHA
You’re too cool for me DISINFO_WH*RE
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:59pmTIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:06am
KID. Iran-Contra? Dig a little deeper KID
===============================
I did:
“Address to the Nation on Iran-Contra (March 4, 1987)
Ronald Wilson Reagan
My fellow Americans:
Report Post »Let’s start with the part that is the most controversial. A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that’s true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not. As the Tower board reported, what began as a strategic opening to Iran deteriorated, in its implementation, into trading arms for hostages. This runs counter to my own beliefs, to administration policy, and to the original strategy we had in mind. There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses. It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.
“Address to the Nation on Iran-Contra (March 4, 1987)” Ronald Wilson Reagan
christos
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 6:40pmindividualism – Your posts are proof of Brain Out Sourcing must have been costly.
Report Post »