Revealed: Friendly Neighborhood Communists Also Have Game Night
- Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:00pm by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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We’ve already brought you glimpses of your friendly neighborhood communists (watch them introduce themselves here). In sum, they want you to know they’re just like you and me (minus the slaughter of millions, of course). Now, the New York Times is making sure you know some other things about your communist neighbors: they smile and have game night, too.
“[A]t the Brecht Forum, a community center on West Street [in New York City] where revolutionaries and radicals gather daily to ponder and to pontificate, they also play. (Smiles abound),” the Times writes in a recent piece. Amid conversations about labor theory and worker exploitation, the article says, “there is also the monthly Game Night, when regulars put down their copies of ‘Das Kapital’ [Karl Marx's manifesto] and immerse themselves in table tennis, foosball and a complicated Marxist version of Monopoly called, appropriately, Class Struggle.”
What is “Class Struggle” all about? Naturally, revolution. The game’s description explains:
“Class Struggle” reflects the real struggle between the classes in our society. THE OBJECT OF THE GAME IS TO WIN THE REVOLUTION . . . ULTIMATELY. Until then, classes—represented by different players—advance around the board, making and breaking alliances, and picking up strengths and weaknesses that determine the outcome of the elections and general strikes which occur along the way.
Like your other friendly neighborhood communists, Brecht Forum regulars are also pretty normal folks. They get together, talk, have speakers, and sometimes oh, you know, “conspire”:
The Brecht Forum began in 1975 as the New York Marxist School. It is named after long-time Marxist and German playwright Bertold Brecht, who once wrote “MUTTER COURAGE UND IHRE KINDER,” which one biography calls “an attempt to demonstrate that greedy small entrepreneurs make devastating wars possible.”
Its website describes the forum as “a place for people who are working for social justice, equality and a new culture that puts human needs first.”
In between rounds of “Class Struggle” the forum does find time to invite guests to speak, such as this gentleman, who likes to call Glenn Beck a “fascist whore”:
Yup, just like you and me.
(H/T: Hot Air)
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Comments (114)
EP46
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:46pmThis is what Communism offers (if you manage to stay alive)
Report Post »Government education…only subjects chosen by the government, only government teachers
Government job…not a job of your choice..at government wage …maybe $20 per month
Government housing…no private homes, housing cost deducted from government wage
Government approved food…only what they allow at prices they set
Government transportation…no personal vehicles
Government health care…only if you can work and contribute to society
Government controlled family size…maybe one or two children, government forced abortion
Government controlled media…no personal computers, phones, etc
Guess these kids are happy.
Government utopia !
stinkybisquit
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:37pm“Theater of the Oppressed?”
I need to keep a bottle of milk by my computer for shots like that, just so I can drink it & have it come out of my nose when I laugh.
Report Post »stinkybisquit
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:35pmI’ve noticed something between this, and the new “I’m a Communist” commercial: they’re trying to show they normal Americans like you and me.
Do they consider the enjoyment of everyday things the validation of a political system? I think Hitler enjoyed skiing, and Kim Jung Il likes to golf. What next?
“Hi, I like baseball games and hot dogs. My name is Jeffrey Daumer.”
Report Post »Star Spangled
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:27pmI think they should be charged with treason .
Report Post »varptr
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:24pmYou want to play poker, go out and earn your own danged money!!!!
Report Post »spirited
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:21pmIf Rod Blagojevich was ‘investigated’ (more like, set-up)
for trying to sell the Illinois Senator’s seat,
….There’s gotta be an Inspector General (….somewhere in the world)
or, an under-cover something… going on.
….And, they’re –just– waiting for the right time to take him out.
No?
>How many other’s received The Face In The Crowd (or other) DVDs?
Report Post »or,
Is it simply Soros’ benevolence?
DagneyT
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:20pmBoy oh boy, has obama given these guys guts; they’re coming out of the woodwork, and telling us who they are on a regular basis lately!
Report Post »GadsdenGurl
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:20pmThere is a list on our state Tea Party site of communist and socialist organizations. They never even HIT on the ones that don‘t have the word ’communist‘ or ’socialist’ in the name! But this is one.. They even got hate mail from them the night before the election.
Report Post »Kathleen
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:18pmI bet you they’re atheists as well.
Can we have an episode dissecting the promises of Communism and the realities. More interviews with people who escaped Communism. Maybe even a debate with a present Communist in and someone who knows the realities of it.
Report Post »GadsdenGurl
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:15pmI can’t wait for some talented young turk to create a video that starts out with. “Hello. I’m a communist. I’m not a murderer, I’m YOU”.
LOL
Report Post »dablooz
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:59pmSo, at the end of the Monopoly game, everybody wins?
Report Post »Flagwaver
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:58pmI’d rather play a special game of Life that is called McCarthyism! It’s where you get extra money for turning in Communists!
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:56pmsomething tells us that when these people riot and march on us Americans, we will have no qualms at all defending ourselves and Saving America from their sick soros/obama agenda. .
Report Post »RightPolitically
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:43pmThese bastards need to be defeated COMPLETELY at the polls from here on out. If not, they will make certain that things get very ugly for America. Back to the Constitution, back to INDIVIDUALISM. Back to SANITY!
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:42pmThey have game night. My family has gun/range night. Both are teaching life skills.
Theirs teaches them how to be belligerent sniveling brats.
Ours teaches us how to appropriately deal with people who have Marxist game night.
Report Post »mallsniper
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:50pmYou, sir, just hit the mark!!
(pun intended)
Report Post »independentvoteril
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:33pmAfter watching the tape from this group I can see they are all HIGH and it’s not on life.. the police should raid them.. One thing this clown better not even try is to take ANYTHING from the working class of this country apparently he forgot the citizens are armed.. the 3rd world countries are that way because their citizens are not allowed to defend themselves against the COMMUNISTS who took them over..
Report Post »JD Carp
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:31pm“Misery loves company” I am pleased to see a place like this and there should be more of them so they can gather together, in one place and stop polluting the rest of America.
Report Post »J.C. McGlynn
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:30pmNot only does not work, is not working now. Look at Greece, England and Spain. Students in England just got a rude awakening that someone does pay for college, and it ain’t cheap.
Report Post »EPROM
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:25pmI got A’s all the time at The Brecht Forum but I ended up with a C average in the end. ….Turns out they gave all of my A‘s to the people who were failing so that we’d all end up, …well …“average”..
Report Post »blue eyed devil
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:19pmThe people in the video a the geeks we kick the Sh-t out of in school. They do not scare me at all. As history has proved many of times, socialism does not work.
Report Post »abc
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:42pmAs history has shown time and time again, pure socialism doesn’t exist. But Germany and Holland and Finland and Switzerland and Sweden have lots of socialism in their capitalistic systems, and they have great standards of living.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:52pm@ABC
All having financial problems out the wazoo. And it’s interesting the nations you left OUT of your little post. Quite interesting.
Americans are not cut out for socialism. The elements we have now are tearing us apart, any more and we’re going down in flames. Socialism is a horror show fantasy, a set of promises given to you by politicians so that they can have total dominion over your life. If you want to be a serf, that’s your call, but you have no right to demand that I become a serf along with you.
Cheers
Report Post »OneRepublic4us
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:10pm@abc I have a friend that lives in Holland and she recently expressed her frustration of the “censorship” of the internet over there. Socialism causes loss of freedom. It’s as simple as that.
Report Post »Dustyluv
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:33pmABC…You are FREE to move there if you like it so damn much!! Go NOW!!!!
Report Post »abc
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 6:57pmGhost, Germany’s economy is killing it, as is Finland and Holland. The fact that a subset of more socialistic countries are doing better than ours means that you ought to rethink the generalizations that you make about economies with bigger union power, larger safety nets and the like. If you stick with the facts, then you find your little narrative around the freest economies are always the best falls apart.
One, China has a smoking hot economy and massive internet censorship. So what? You can have free speech and a social safety net. You act as though socialism is a monolithic thing when in reality it is a set of policies that you pick and choose from. I cannot believe how simplistically people here speak about policy. It must be Beck messing up your minds.
Report Post »Marylou7
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:19pmThis is absolutely sick. Communism doesn’t help anyone except the elites calling the shots.
Report Post »HillBillySam1
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:17pmA good time had by all. I think that my favorite game would be “Pin the Tail On the Counter-Revolutionary”. Although “Bobbin-for-Che“ and the ”Trotsky Run” are close seconds.
Report Post »Frolickers of the world unite!!
Bigrod58
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:11pmBirds of a feather. Buzzards.
Report Post »Bigrod58
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:11pmAdd your comments
Report Post »Funkeyfantum
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:09pmHey You,
Report Post »Contact your Senator, Congressman and Congressman Darryl Issa to get a probe on Soros and his organizations of his treasonous attempt to ovethrow our governement…This is what they should be looking at…
DimmuBorgir
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:16pmUgh, i hate all these people.
i guess we should blame the generation that gave birth to these kids. They told them they were special waaaaaaaay too much and now they think that they can all change the world.
on a side note, these are the same type of people who think being in a “Flash Mob” is something significant and shows the “power of the people”
no one cares about you and hopefully you all wake up someday and end your entitlement mentality
Report Post »Citizen
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:28pmyes dimm thats what happens when you make everyone a winner – they think they are intitled to win even though they did not work for it.
Report Post »HKS
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:29pmOne of the big problems as I see it. Kids are taught that in our miserable education system. It‘s a ploy to strangle creativity and it’s by design. Soros probably has an organization for that. The history of man is about evolution, one building block on top of the other and you build something. Tearing down and starting over is like re-inventing the wheel, over and over and over. Can’t make it better just make it new. So all you ever accomplish is the wheel. No progress by design. That’s probably went on for longer than we know as most of man kinds advances have been in the last hundred years. I think we are headed backwards, by design.
Report Post »CarolynAnn
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:32pmFunkeyfantum
Contact your Senator, Congressman and Congressman Darryl Issa to get a probe on Soros
And you REALLY think they don’t already know this???????
abc
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:37pmState Soros’ treasonous acts. And please be specific. There is no law against claiming that class warfare exists in America. The interests of labor and capital are not aligned. This is an economic fact. How you get from that uncontroversial comment and worldview to treason is beyond me. And the comments about Beck, while hurtful to his fans, are hardly against the law. You guys need to realize that other people have a right to a different viewpoint. To think otherwise is truly fascist.
Report Post »abc
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:40pmHKS, news out today says that only 38% of whites and 11% of blacks are at appropriate level for reading in the fourth grade. It’s 44% and 11%, respectively, for math. And the numbers get worse as you move into middle and high school. I think we all can agree to focus on getting our kids to the point that they can do algebra and read Mark Twain by the time they graduate. We’re so far from those basics, but you complain about political bias in the school. You‘re rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic and don’t even know it. And if you cannot recognize the problems, you certainly have no credibility in offering solutions.
Report Post »Citizen
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:48pmabc – at some point the parents have to take responsibility for their childrens education. im sure many parents are bad ones and think its the governments responsibility.
If your kid is dumb its your fault not the governments. But i understand if you need hand holding and the government to raise your kids.
when the ignorant and weak get left behind thats darwinism working as intended.
Report Post »ClassicalLiberal
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 1:55pmSelf-ownership and by extension the right to own the fruits of ones own labor (private property) is evil?
The freedom of mutual exchange to mutual benefit should end?
Class warfare is so old. Its as they are trying to “conserve” this ideology and notion that a group is not mere a sum of individuals.
Collectivism/statism is slavery.
http://traditionalliberalism.blogspot.com/2010/10/terminological-theft-liberalism.html
Report Post »vic138
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:04pmYa, I’ll call boxer up right now…
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:06pm@ABC
You are correct, we have serious problems in our schools and with basic literacy and math skills for most graduates of said schools. I’m actually agreeing with you without reservation or cynicism.
The best thing we can hope for is to get government out of the school business. They are the ones more focused on “agendas” than they are teaching, and just try to read Mark Twain in school sometime. Ain’t happening, they’re too busy focusing kids on “alternate authors” and shielding them from canonical Western authors. As to math, that’s a scary thing. My kids are taught all kinds of convoluted rubrics, rubrics which will in fact prevent them from ever being able to do even basic math in their head (assuming I didn’t step in and teach them, which I did). Our education system is literally and I’m led to believe, intentionally, crippling our children intellectually.
It’s up to parents to pick up the slack now. Our schools are so over funded that it’s ludicrous to scream for more money to “solve the problem”. The problem is, that schools are being setup to create failure, intentionally.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:08pm@ABC
The Founding Fathers did not promote a public financed education. Up until the early 20th century most all schools were private (small, and private). The Founders promoted universal education as a worthy goal for living in a constitutional republic, I can‘t recall them calling for government to fund local schools and to set educational ’standards’.
Report Post »abc
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:08pmClassicalliberal,
Self-ownership and by extension the right to own the fruits of ones own labor (private property) is evil?
Not evil. Very good. But only capital (i.e., owners of companies and people wealthy enough to derive most of their living from debt and equity) gets to enjoy this position. Labor doesn’t own the fruits of its labor. They get a wage only, which has been stagnant and declining in real terms since 1970 in this country, while returns to capital have been at the highest level in human history.
The freedom of mutual exchange to mutual benefit should end?
What freedom do you have when you have no job prospects and a family to feed? Freedom is not a black and white concept. All of our contract law is based upon the lack of duress and much of it designed to avoid duress and deception, which would invalidate contracts. When there is doubt that contracts lack duress or deception, then you cannot throw around the freedom moniker. And yes, the government plays a key role in regulating contract making to ensure the lack of fraud, deception and duress, among other things.
Class warfare is so old. Its as they are trying to “conserve” this ideology and notion that a group is not mere a sum of individuals.
Of course a group is not the mere sum of individuals, but compelling economic interests can unite groups in powerful ways. It is why rich people line up against higher cap gains taxes, limits on their campaign contributions, and the like. But to ignore the basic difference between those who earn their living on the returns of equity and debt on the one hand, and those who earn it via labor on the other, is to pretend that a conflict of interest, which clearly exists in reality, is a political fiction. I assure you it is not.
Collectivism/statism is slavery.
Stating that workers and capitalists have different interests is not an endorsement of collectivism, much less slavery. And there is a huge difference between collectivism and slavery. That you don’t understand that, means that you understand nearly nothing about the issue.
Report Post »roguetea
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:10pmrogue, Targeting Extreme Armchairs
Game nights are lots of fun. Wish I had time and means to indulge so frivolously, regularly. I am too busy fighting the socializing of free enterprise. Obviously these folks never felt the take a number, cross your fingers, and wait endlessly and poor to have a few high and mighty herd you where you never wanted to go. You do not have to live it to imagine the horrors that are extremely well documented. My daughter spent a year in Czech. The scars of communism run long, deep and severe.
Yea, a bunch of fakes routinely game it, philosophizing on reality they will never live. There little nights are about as real as playing risk or monopoly. Most of us will never know the fields of combat or the luxuries of excess. ‘Game’ is indeed what it is all about, the only reality they face is paying the bar bill of free enterprise. The proprietor must laugh his way to the bank, or he/she is the biggest hypocrite imaginable. Instead of investigating these fools, we ought to hope and pray some who personally know communism go play a few games and explain reality.
Report Post »tea party, Own 11, ROGUE ON
abc
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:18pmGhost,
“You are correct, we have serious problems in our schools and with basic literacy and math skills for most graduates of said schools. I’m actually agreeing with you without reservation or cynicism.”
Good. A place for discussion rather than mindless political polemics.
“The best thing we can hope for is to get government out of the school business. They are the ones more focused on “agendas” than they are teaching, and just try to read Mark Twain in school sometime. Ain’t happening, they’re too busy focusing kids on “alternate authors” and shielding them from canonical Western authors. As to math, that’s a scary thing. My kids are taught all kinds of convoluted rubrics, rubrics which will in fact prevent them from ever being able to do even basic math in their head (assuming I didn’t step in and teach them, which I did). Our education system is literally and I’m led to believe, intentionally, crippling our children intellectually.”
This is wrong. One of the leading experts on child psychological development and early education is Jim Trelease. I heard him talk at Caltech some years ago. He said that the public vs. private schools debate is beside the point. There are kids failing everywhere. More on the public side, but mostly because the private schools skim the cream. It is not because they are inherently doing something different. My kids go to a school ranked in the top 5 in the entire US, according to the WSJ, but they are so liberal that it would make people here pull their hair out. The liberal-conservative debate should be thrown out the window. Back to Trelease, he pointed out in his talk at CalTech that both Bush Sr and the Clinton WH did expensive studies to see what was driving school failure and they found the same conclusion, which was statistically significant and compelling. The reason? The kids were entering school with inadequate exposure to words. They could correlate at a very high R-squared the number of words the kids heard before entering kindergarten with their performance in school. And that early performance has a high correlation with later performance. The conclusion? The failing kids had failing parents. But politicians cannot tell voters that the problem isn’t the teachers or the unions or the left-wing or right-wing agenda of the school board, but the parents. The politicians count of pandering to the parents for their votes. So these conclusions stay buried at the Dept. of Education.
What to do? The parents are failing because they are now working two jobs and are not around to expose their kids to more words. The correlations studies had been done prior to Bush I, and they show that women entering the workforce has been a key driver of declining school performance. Given that people need to work to survive, and most households need two salaries to make it, this is a very difficult problem that no doubt requires early intervention by the state, the private sector and God knows what else. But to blame this on the Dems and the teachers’ union is so far from the reality that it really is a waste of time even attempting to make that point–unless you just want to score political points in a campaign.
“It’s up to parents to pick up the slack now. Our schools are so over funded that it’s ludicrous to scream for more money to “solve the problem”. The problem is, that schools are being setup to create failure, intentionally.”
The parents have not been picking up the slack for a while. And that is the problem. BUt in many cases, they lack the means and time to do so. Given that our system of government requires well educated people, what is to be done? I think the state and private sectors need to address this issue so that early childhood education doesn’t continue to decline and destroy prospects for people for the following two decades.
Report Post »abc
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:20pmGhost, if they wanted to fund libraries, it seems to me that at least some of them were for public funding of schools. They also didn’t envision public funding of roads, but we wouldn’t have interstate highways today without state intervention. I’m obviously not an originalist, but I bet you that thinkers like Ben Franklin would have been advocates of public schools to ensure that everyone had enough of an education to vote intelligently.
Report Post »Dustyluv
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:30pmI finally figured out where the LOONEY BIN is located!
Report Post »Citizen
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:49pmi will address your opening line – you said – social darwinism. – i spoke of no such thing and you did not address my point at all.
darwinism is darwinism, when you are born into this life you are guaranteed nothing, if you think man can give guarantees then i suggest you read more history, if you put your faith in a guarantee given by man then thats when TRUE darwinism takes place. the weak are the weak no matter what you do, and darwinism always trumps what you call social darwninsm.
you can make up social darwinism but people are responsible for themselves and it will always remain so.
government has a responsibility to allow people to be free to educate themselves how they want, you want the government to educate people how you want, huge difference.
you think the governments has the ability to outweigh the parents,the weak die off, you just have yet to learn that.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 2:59pm@ABC
>>Good. A place for discussion rather than mindless political polemics.<>This is wrong. One of the leading experts on child psychological development and early education is Jim Trelease. I heard him talk at Caltech some years ago. He said that the public vs. private schools debate is beside the point. There are kids failing everywhere. More on the public side, but mostly because the private schools skim the cream. <>It is not because they are inherently doing something different.<>My kids go to a school ranked in the top 5 in the entire US, according to the WSJ, but they are so liberal that it would make people here pull their hair out. The liberal-conservative debate should be thrown out the window.
I agree, schools should not be propaganda factories for ANY political ideology. That’s something I think we really need to address as a society, and unfortunately that’s going to come down harder on “your side” than mine, given the broad liberal agendas being pushed in schools since at least the late 1980′s, if not earlier.
>>Back to Trelease, he pointed out in his talk at CalTech that both Bush Sr and the Clinton WH did expensive studies to see what was driving school failure and they found the same conclusion, which was statistically significant and compelling. The reason? The kids were entering school with inadequate exposure to words. They could correlate at a very high R-squared the number of words the kids heard before entering kindergarten with their performance in school. And that early performance has a high correlation with later performance. The conclusion? The failing kids had failing parents. But politicians cannot tell voters that the problem isn’t the teachers or the unions or the left-wing or right-wing agenda of the school board, but the parents. The politicians count of pandering to the parents for their votes. So these conclusions stay buried at the Dept. of Education.<>What to do? The parents are failing because they are now working two jobs and are not around to expose their kids to more words. The correlations studies had been done prior to Bush I, and they show that women entering the workforce has been a key driver of declining school performance. Given that people need to work to survive, and most households need two salaries to make it, this is a very difficult problem that no doubt requires early intervention by the state, the private sector and God knows what else. <>But to blame this on the Dems and the teachers’ union is so far from the reality that it really is a waste of time even attempting to make that point–unless you just want to score political points in a campaign.<>The parents have not been picking up the slack for a while. And that is the problem. BUt in many cases, they lack the means and time to do so. <>Given that our system of government requires well educated people, what is to be done? I think the state and private sectors need to address this issue so that early childhood education doesn’t continue to decline and destroy prospects for people for the following two decades.<<
It would take a cultural change *back* to some traditional values ABC. It would take communicating to women that the end all be all of life is NOT the workplace, and that equal or greater value can be had in raising one's children. It would also take reducing overall taxation across the nation, and I don't just mean the income tax, I mean wholesale reductions in a way that would make your friends on the left, as you say, pull out their hair. :)
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 3:10pm@ABC
Formatting problems, sorry, re-posting.
@ABC
**Good. A place for discussion rather than mindless political polemics.**
Well, mindless political polemics is the domain of every political forum these days. I’ve been a libertarian since I was of voting age (1985-86), and it’s something of a task for me to discuss things sometimes here with some of the “new to libertarianism/constitutionalism” types. I went through the same thing, I think all of us have regardless of our ideology, we “wake up” to our particular ideology and tend to fall into something resembling a dogmatic mentality fairly quickly. The philosophical, logical and rhetorical refinement comes with time. I have the highest of hopes for the new libertarian generation I see growing here and other places, and am enjoying helping those willing to listen come up to speed. It’s probably not something you relish, but for me it’s something resembling a renaissance. :)
**This is wrong. One of the leading experts on child psychological development and early education is Jim Trelease. I heard him talk at Caltech some years ago. He said that the public vs. private schools debate is beside the point. There are kids failing everywhere. More on the public side, but mostly because the private schools skim the cream. **
That’s not logical. It’s a statement that more money = higher intelligence. Keep in mind that public schools have plenty of “rich” kids in them as well, which you yourself have pointed out to other posters on this thread. And not all “rich” parents take great concern in their children’s education, so one cannot make the blanket assumption that the “rich” will automatically hire those five tutors. I‘d go so far as to wager that you’d be hard pressed to find many people, rich or poor, who take more than a passing interest in their children’s grades.
**It is not because they are inherently doing something different.**
I disagree. Having put my children in private school at one time, as well as having them in public school, I can tell you for a fact that the private schools did in fact do something different. They had much higher standards, pressed the students much harder academically than public schools, and didn’t accept tomfoolery. Public schools, because they teach towards the mean and not the upper end (nor lower end) end up with a much less rigorous academic curriculum.
Additionally, there are plenty of good home school programs out there now, and parents are starting to team up and “share” the teaching responsibilities with great results. The home schooling movement started out a bit slow but it is really catching on, the methods are improving and organizational models are popping up that rival or out-perform public and private school models.
**My kids go to a school ranked in the top 5 in the entire US, according to the WSJ, but they are so liberal that it would make people here pull their hair out. The liberal-conservative debate should be thrown out the window. **
I agree, schools should not be propaganda factories for ANY political ideology. That’s something I think we really need to address as a society, and unfortunately that’s going to come down harder on “your side” than mine, given the broad liberal agendas being pushed in schools since at least the late 1980′s, if not earlier.
**Back to Trelease, he pointed out in his talk at CalTech that both Bush Sr and the Clinton WH did expensive studies to see what was driving school failure and they found the same conclusion, which was statistically significant and compelling. The reason? The kids were entering school with inadequate exposure to words. They could correlate at a very high R-squared the number of words the kids heard before entering kindergarten with their performance in school. And that early performance has a high correlation with later performance. The conclusion? The failing kids had failing parents. But politicians cannot tell voters that the problem isn’t the teachers or the unions or the left-wing or right-wing agenda of the school board, but the parents. The politicians count of pandering to the parents for their votes. So these conclusions stay buried at the Dept. of Education.**
I’m not entirely certain that I buy that. Exposure to words do not come only from parents or perhaps better put from aural means, there is also reading to take into consideration. I do think that there may be some merit to the notion that parents having less exposure to their children’s lives than they used to might contribute to some educational deficiency, but to call it the Prime Mover seems a bit presumptuous of the researcher you cite.
**What to do? The parents are failing because they are now working two jobs and are not around to expose their kids to more words. The correlations studies had been done prior to Bush I, and they show that women entering the workforce has been a key driver of declining school performance. Given that people need to work to survive, and most households need two salaries to make it, this is a very difficult problem that no doubt requires early intervention by the state, the private sector and God knows what else. **
Well, we have an onerous level of taxation to pay for these days, our levels of taxation with all things taken into account run from 55% to 90%, which is stunning. I do agree that (married) women abandoning their children for the workforce has had a detrimental effect on children (and families in general), both in relation to education and in realms outside of primary education (social skills, a lack of traditional family structure, no transmitting of family life skills, etc).
**But to blame this on the Dems and the teachers’ union is so far from the reality that it really is a waste of time even attempting to make that point–unless you just want to score political points in a campaign.**
It’s not entirely wrong to look towards the teachers and unions. As I said, there is no one Prime Mover we’re dealing with there, this is a complex issue and has a lot of contributing factors. One of those factors however is the hard liberal push with agendas in schools, as well as teacher’s unions. One of, but not “the only”, mind you.
**The parents have not been picking up the slack for a while. And that is the problem. BUt in many cases, they lack the means and time to do so. **
Again, you’re looking for a single cause. That’s simply not logical.
**Given that our system of government requires well educated people, what is to be done? I think the state and private sectors need to address this issue so that early childhood education doesn’t continue to decline and destroy prospects for people for the following two decades.**
It would take a cultural change *back* to some traditional values ABC. It would take communicating to women that the end all be all of life is NOT the workplace, and that equal or greater value can be had in raising one’s children. It would also take reducing overall taxation across the nation, and I don’t just mean the income tax, I mean wholesale reductions in a way that would make your friends on the left, as you say, pull out their hair. :)
Report Post »Citizen
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 3:18pmsomeone said this ?
**The parents have not been picking up the slack for a while. And that is the problem. BUt in many cases, they lack the means and time to do so. **
if you dont have the means or time to take care of your most important responsibility on earth then you should not have had one, if you did then that is on you not the government and other peoples money to pay for your ignorant bloodline.
you push personal responsibility onto the government – read a history book see how that turns out.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 3:25pm@ Citizen
Great point actually. Having children is a choice, a conscious decision (because frankly, having sex is a conscious decision except in cases of rape or incest). Ergo, if you decide to do the bed dance, then you must necessarily be ready to deal with and cope with having another life in the world that you are responsible for.
Report Post »HouseNegro
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 3:26pmNow that we know where ya’ll are. I smell a drone attack……………
Report Post »Funkeyfantum
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 3:29pmso you mean to tell me a man can topple a country and it is legal? We can’t request an investigation? So steroids in baseball congress will look at but destroing a country, no??
Report Post »southsik
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 3:52pmI really do wish there were these places in open areas where we know where they are.
Report Post »rebel
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 3:59pmhmmm their game sucks. the music sucks. the dancing sucks. the chicks all have hairy armpits. they talk love while waiting for a violent overthrow. their god is the earth. and the room probably stinks of BO and petchuli(spell check).
Hippies!
Thank god for capitalism, razors, and deodorant
Report Post »mizflame98
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 4:56pmI want a copy of that game so I can teach my children why communism sucks.
Report Post »Doc_Slammin
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 5:04pm@ABC : Nice attempt to categorize and label people who believe in individual responsibility.
ABC claims,”My wife teaches school and sees the millionaire kids who are dumb getting five tutors in to help them, while the struggling kid whose parents are very poor fall out of school.”
- So by your own admission, economic situation has little to do with education. Millionaires and struggling kids whose parents are very poor all suffer the same fate. Ignorance.
ABC exclaims, “This is not just. A child cannot help or control what type of income he is born into. And a democracy requires voters who have a clue.”
- So, you’re insinuating that poor children are forced to drop out of school to help support the family while rich children are allowed to remain in school? You sir, have no clue… and no matter how you dislike the idea, the United States is a Republic, not a Democracy. Since you brought up the topic of justice, is it just to allow the government to decide each man’s worth based on ideology?
ABC states, “Also, the state has a responsibility to ensure a certain level of educational attainment in order for democracy to function. Our founding fathers promoted public libraries and schools in order for this to happen. Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson would strongly disagree with your contention that the state has no role in ensuring a good education system.”
- You are correct that the State has a responsibility to the education of it’s constituency, however, where does education cease and indoctrination begin? Too often, I see ‘theory’ being taught as ‘fact’ in our education system offering no ‘proof’. This is the direct result of allowing the State to have too much educational influence upon it’s populace. Franklin and Jefferson would STRONGLY agree with my stance that the role of government education should be limited to non-biased basic subjects to encourage ‘outside of the box’ thinking instead of indoctrination and politically correct facts.
ABC says, “Two-parent working families barely making it in a tough economic time need other systems of support, including the government, to prevent their kids from entering prison rather than college. And don’t think that being tough on crime will make any difference. We are either going to spend more money on jails or on schools.”
- On this, we can agree that education is important in preventing ignorance of law and social crime.
Where I disagree with your arguments are “what is the government’s responsible for education“ and that ”social economics have something to do with a successful education”.
ABC says, “But go on pushing your social darwinism crap that was determined sadly wrong only 100 years ago.”
- Determined wrong by whom? Government educators and professors? Again, how many ‘theories’ are taught as educational ‘fact’ to the public? Evolution? Religions? Our forefathers intent’s and hypocrisies? Minorities freeing themselves from civil rights abuses without majority support? How to deal with climate change? These are all examples of THEORIES that are being forced as fact.
ABC says, “You lack credibility in my eyes.”
- Likewise, to your arguments! You seem to be a decent person, but your arguments that education cannot be privately run are flawed.
Report Post »abc
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 5:43pmCitizen,
“i will address your opening line – you said – social darwinism. – i spoke of no such thing and you did not address my point at all…darwinism is darwinism, when you are born into this life you are guaranteed nothing, if you think man can give guarantees then i suggest you read more history, if you put your faith in a guarantee given by man then thats when TRUE darwinism takes place. the weak are the weak no matter what you do, and darwinism always trumps what you call social darwninsm.”
What you are calling darwinism is the same thing as social darwinism. it is a bankrupt theory that uses evolutionary biology as a cover to say that those who are weak should die off. Hitler’s eugenics programs, as well as those who fought against social reforms of the dark satanic mills in the UK and US, made use of it. That you call it something else is irrelevant.
“you can make up social darwinism but people are responsible for themselves and it will always remain so. government has a responsibility to allow people to be free to educate themselves how they want, you want the government to educate people how you want, huge difference.”
That is not true. I want the government to make sure people can do basic math and algebra and statistics, because you cannot evaluate health care reform or tax policy without these skills. I have heard personally from top CEOs (e.g., Chambers at Cisco) that he needs more US engineers and expects the public schools to deliver this. So clearly the private sector wants this as well.
“you think the governments has the ability to outweigh the parents,the weak die off, you just have yet to learn that.”
You read a bunch of stuff into what I say that isn’t there and is a logical non-sequitur. I said that the government ought to help early school education for people who cannot afford it because there is a huge public good associated with an informed electorate. You don’t see this because you are ideologically committed to a different point of view–facts be darned.
Report Post »abc
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 6:02pmGhost,
I agree that liberals dominate a lot of school’s, but you’ll have a lot of work fixing the TX schools that are pulling good science and history out of the classroom at a horrifying rate, all in the name of religion, which doesn’t belong there in the first place.
As for the comment about women learning to take care of kids, the stats on stay-at-home mothers is clear. It is now an economic luxury that the average American family cannot afford. It is arrogant to assume that mothers do not want to stay home with their kids when the vast majority would like more time but cannot afford it. Wages have stagnated since the 1970s while corporate profits are at all-time highs on a percentage basis. This is a real problem: corporations exploit labor and then when that labor hurts its own children to hold a job, the corporations simply move overseas where the next generation of engineers willing to drink dirty water and breathe dirty air live. You must see that corporations’ interests are not the same as their workers, but our democracy counts those workers as the vast majority of people voting here.
Report Post »abc
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 6:24pmGhost,
“Well, mindless political polemics is the domain of every political forum these days. I’ve been a libertarian since I was of voting age (1985-86), and it’s something of a task for me to discuss things sometimes here with some of the “new to libertarianism/constitutionalism” types. I went through the same thing, I think all of us have regardless of our ideology, we “wake up” to our particular ideology and tend to fall into something resembling a dogmatic mentality fairly quickly. The philosophical, logical and rhetorical refinement comes with time. I have the highest of hopes for the new libertarian generation I see growing here and other places, and am enjoying helping those willing to listen come up to speed. It’s probably not something you relish, but for me it’s something resembling a renaissance. :)”
It doesn’t solve problems to focus on it many times. There are legitimate debates over political philosophy, but when the debate is divorced from empirical data, you might as well be debating the number of angels that sit atop a pin head. Totally useless conversation. That is why I‘d rather discuss the data gathered by the gov’t and used by Trelease to highlight that the real problem isn’t necessarily teachers or funding or unions but kids who lack a good first start, which compounds over time.
“That’s not logical. It’s a statement that more money = higher intelligence. Keep in mind that public schools have plenty of “rich” kids in them as well, which you yourself have pointed out to other posters on this thread. And not all “rich” parents take great concern in their children’s education, so one cannot make the blanket assumption that the “rich” will automatically hire those five tutors. I‘d go so far as to wager that you’d be hard pressed to find many people, rich or poor, who take more than a passing interest in their children’s grades.”
First, stop making assumptions. The data shows that wealthier people use more words and their kids hear more words, so they do better in school. It is the poor that need the help, and should not simply die–as Citizen argues, in support of outgoing Congressman Grayson’s comment that this is REALLY what the GOP wants–but should be helped with state aid since there is a public good to education. There is a correlation between educational attainment and wealth and kids’ educational success that is proven. Because the average wealth level of families with kids in private schools is higher, the average kid is a better student. This is cream skimming. The very smartest kids in America are in public schools, but the average kid in public school is not as strong as the average private school kid. This should be clear. It is basic stuff.
Second, the downside to the rich kid who does struggle and whose parents are not there is not as bad as the downside for the poor kid. Now, some would say, this is the law of the jungle, and we have no right to change it. I am not arguing that we change it to make it more fair. I am saying make sure that the problem of uneducated kids who don’t do math or reading and cannot intelligently vote but are guaranteed that right, which is largely a problem of the poor and lower middle class, needs to be addressed so our democracy works. Conservatives talk about freedom all the time, but they fail to recognize that you are not free if you lack the education to critically think and evaluate the speaker. You are a slave to a fast-talking leader or a particular ideology, but you are not free. Only an independent thinker is free. And to be that, you need an education.
“I disagree. Having put my children in private school at one time, as well as having them in public school, I can tell you for a fact that the private schools did in fact do something different. They had much higher standards, pressed the students much harder academically than public schools, and didn’t accept tomfoolery. Public schools, because they teach towards the mean and not the upper end (nor lower end) end up with a much less rigorous academic curriculum.”
My kids go to a top-5 private school in the country, and my son is bored in his classes. They do a poor job of advancing him to challenge him. The public schools would do a better job and we are considering pulling him out. So there are all types of anecdotal stories. Also, private schools allow kids to learn from other smart kids in the class, as I did having gone to the best university in the country. It is far less about the teacher than you give credit to, and the research shows this. You choose to argue otherwise without empirical support.
“Additionally, there are plenty of good home school programs out there now, and parents are starting to team up and “share” the teaching responsibilities with great results. The home schooling movement started out a bit slow but it is really catching on, the methods are improving and organizational models are popping up that rival or out-perform public and private school models.”
The home schooling movement is largely driven by people who do not want their kids to learn about evolution and want a religious education that the Constitution forbids be taught in the public school. This is not resource sharing, and even a fairly large group of parents cannot solve the problem of two-working parent households. Day care programs need to be adjusted to be more academic and promote early school readiness. The problem is that the private sector has done a terrible job at this, for whatever reason.
“I agree, schools should not be propaganda factories for ANY political ideology. That’s something I think we really need to address as a society, and unfortunately that’s going to come down harder on “your side” than mine, given the broad liberal agendas being pushed in schools since at least the late 1980′s, if not earlier.”
You take care of the crazy people in TX seeking to “teach the controversy” and wanting to eliminate the historical record showing that our founding fathers, while Christian, sought a separation of church and state, and I‘ll address the mild liberal bias in our nation’s other schools.
“I’m not entirely certain that I buy that. Exposure to words do not come only from parents or perhaps better put from aural means, there is also reading to take into consideration. I do think that there may be some merit to the notion that parents having less exposure to their children’s lives than they used to might contribute to some educational deficiency, but to call it the Prime Mover seems a bit presumptuous of the researcher you cite.”
This is work undertaken over a 20 year period by the Dept of Education under GOP and Dem presidents. it is being reported by a world expert. Whether you buy it or not is not really relevant. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. If those researchers and experts call it the main explanatory variable, then you ought to take it seriously.
“Well, we have an onerous level of taxation to pay for these days, our levels of taxation with all things taken into account run from 55% to 90%, which is stunning.”
Show me the person with a 90% tax rate. Tax rates are at record lows since WWII.
“I do agree that (married) women abandoning their children for the workforce has had a detrimental effect on children (and families in general), both in relation to education and in realms outside of primary education (social skills, a lack of traditional family structure, no transmitting of family life skills, etc).”
This is often not by choice. Statistica data show that the higher up the income ladder you move, the less likely the mother goes to work full time.
“It’s not entirely wrong to look towards the teachers and unions. As I said, there is no one Prime Mover we’re dealing with there, this is a complex issue and has a lot of contributing factors. One of those factors however is the hard liberal push with agendas in schools, as well as teacher’s unions. One of, but not “the only”, mind you.”
You are spinning again. The data shows one thing, but you want to play make believe and assign equal weight to far less important variables. You do this because it is what you are used to doing, what other know-nothing political partisans do when they seek to explain every problem with a bogus theory that has no grounding in reality. Again, we might as well debate the number of angels that sit atop a pin head.
“Again, you’re looking for a single cause. That’s simply not logical.”
Not a single cause, but a limited set of causes that relate to the problem of poor math and verbal skills. This is not my opinion. This is driven by the data. Ignoring the data. Now that is really the illogical tact, which you are taking.
“It would take a cultural change *back* to some traditional values ABC. It would take communicating to women that the end all be all of life is NOT the workplace, and that equal or greater value can be had in raising one’s children. It would also take reducing overall taxation across the nation, and I don’t just mean the income tax, I mean wholesale reductions in a way that would make your friends on the left, as you say, pull out their hair. :)”
Again, women work because they have to. That is why the higher income levels see fewer two income households. You ignore the data and make up explanations. Not smart. Also, taxation levels don’t have anything to do with the problem. They might limit viable solutions, but they are not an explanatory variable in why kids are not learning.
Report Post »abc
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 6:29pmCitizen,
“you push personal responsibility onto the government – read a history book see how that turns out.”
Yeah, let’s see how that turns out. Bush and Cheney invade a country claiming WMDs and torture people who are not terrorists and what happens? Nothing. Good personal responsibility.
Companies make terrible decisions and blow up the economy and what happens? Bush gives them a bailout package…multiple times (airlines after 9/11, steel companies get tariffs, banks get bailouts, corporations get tax holidays, etc.). And he’s not alone Reagan did the same for the S&L’s. It is not the GOP but Ralph Nader that decries corporate welfare, but you want poor people to suck it up. Nice philosophy.
You are a social darwinist of the worst kind.
Report Post »abc
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 6:54pmDoc,
“@ABC : Nice attempt to categorize and label people who believe in individual responsibility. ”
Not labeling, but explaining why kids are underperforming in school and why they might not be able to solve the problem. By the way, either way, we all suffer when people without an education attempt to vote, and it is not pretty. I believe in personal responsibility and have an income and kids to prove that I have shown it in spades–better than most here, when judged on that basis. But you can be for personal responsibility and still support a safety net. Only dogmatic ideologues see things only in black and white. Hopefully, there are very few of those.
“ABC claims,”My wife teaches school and sees the millionaire kids who are dumb getting five tutors in to help them, while the struggling kid whose parents are very poor fall out of school.” – So by your own admission, economic situation has little to do with education. Millionaires and struggling kids whose parents are very poor all suffer the same fate. Ignorance.”
Nope. The millionaire kid doesn’t suffer ignorance. He makes it through. His dad writes a check for $1M so he is not kicked out of school. He gets into college for the same reason. And his father’s connections land him a job he has no business in. The poor dumb kid. He ends up in jail. if you think these two kids are in the same spot, then you are kidding yourself. One can vote, while the other cannot. One contributes to society, while the other is a net drain. And the starting intelligence had nothing to do with it.
“ABC exclaims, “This is not just. A child cannot help or control what type of income he is born into. And a democracy requires voters who have a clue.” – So, you’re insinuating that poor children are forced to drop out of school to help support the family while rich children are allowed to remain in school? You sir, have no clue… and no matter how you dislike the idea, the United States is a Republic, not a Democracy. Since you brought up the topic of justice, is it just to allow the government to decide each man’s worth based on ideology?”
First, you misstate what I said. I said it was not just, but I don’t advocate doing something about it because of my subjective opinion. I am making an argument based upon the objective observation that you cannot vote on issues if you cannot do basic reading and math. That basic minimum should be guaranteed not because it is just but because it is necessary for democracy to function. Second, I never said that kids are dropping out of school because they need to take care of their poor family. I said that given a certain level of school readiness, the rich kids is still more likely to stay in school than the poor kids because his parents have the resources to address the problems, while the poof family lacks them. In order to avoid the poor family’s kid from being a drain on society–and yes, it would be great if the kid weren’t ever born, but we cannot have that option after the fact–is to appropriate resources to avoid the expense of keeping them in prison later on.
“ABC states, “Also, the state has a responsibility to ensure a certain level of educational attainment in order for democracy to function. Our founding fathers promoted public libraries and schools in order for this to happen. Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson would strongly disagree with your contention that the state has no role in ensuring a good education system.” – You are correct that the State has a responsibility to the education of it’s constituency, however, where does education cease and indoctrination begin? Too often, I see ‘theory’ being taught as ‘fact’ in our education system offering no ‘proof’. This is the direct result of allowing the State to have too much educational influence upon it’s populace. Franklin and Jefferson would STRONGLY agree with my stance that the role of government education should be limited to non-biased basic subjects to encourage ‘outside of the box’ thinking instead of indoctrination and politically correct facts.”
Don’t be stupid. I am talking about math and reading here. If you think that algebra is indoctrination, then you are as dumb as the high school dropouts I am worried about. American students are a joke. They test the highest in self-confidence and the lowest in math. Out of the box thinking, without numbers properly crunched, is actually off the reservation thinking. You belong in the looney bin if you laud these outcomes.
“ABC says, “Two-parent working families barely making it in a tough economic time need other systems of support, including the government, to prevent their kids from entering prison rather than college. And don’t think that being tough on crime will make any difference. We are either going to spend more money on jails or on schools.” – On this, we can agree that education is important in preventing ignorance of law and social crime. Where I disagree with your arguments are “what is the government’s responsible for education“ and that ”social economics have something to do with a successful education”.
Either you pay for education or prison. Education is far cheaper. The point stands. I’ve no idea what social economics is.
“ABC says, “But go on pushing your social darwinism crap that was determined sadly wrong only 100 years ago.” – Determined wrong by whom? Government educators and professors? Again, how many ‘theories’ are taught as educational ‘fact’ to the public? Evolution? Religions? Our forefathers intent’s and hypocrisies? Minorities freeing themselves from civil rights abuses without majority support? How to deal with climate change? These are all examples of THEORIES that are being forced as fact.”
We as a society do not believe that a family should starve to death or be broken up because the parents have lost their job. The looney fringe might believe this, but they are happily in the minority. This was not the case in 1810 US or UK, but it is true in 2010. it is not merely the educated elite that say this, but the vast majority of people living in advanced post-modern societies.
“ABC says, “You lack credibility in my eyes.” – Likewise, to your arguments! You seem to be a decent person, but your arguments that education cannot be privately run are flawed.”
I never said you cannot have private education, but I have pointed out that private solutions to early childhood readiness have not solved the problem. Continue to put words in my mouth and I’ll end this little discussion. It’s not playing fair on your part.
Report Post »Citizen
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 10:19pm“i will address your opening line – you said – social darwinism. – i spoke of no such thing and you did not address my point at all…darwinism is darwinism, when you are born into this life you are guaranteed nothing, if you think man can give guarantees then i suggest you read more history, if you put your faith in a guarantee given by man then thats when TRUE darwinism takes place. the weak are the weak no matter what you do, and darwinism always trumps what you call social darwninsm.”
What you are calling darwinism is the same thing as social darwinism. it is a bankrupt theory that uses evolutionary biology as a cover to say that those who are weak should die off. Hitler’s eugenics programs, as well as those who fought against social reforms of the dark satanic mills in the UK and US, made use of it. That you call it something else is irrelevant.
abc -its clear you dont even know what darwanism is – here is the definition -A theory of biological evolution developed by Charles Darwin and others, stating that all species of organisms arise and develop through the natural selection of small, inherited variations that increase the individuals ability to compete, survive, and reproduce. Also called Darwinian theory.
i never said those who are weak should die off – i said those who are weak will die off – have you not seen it happen to species on earth ? they cant adapt fast enough they die.
you in an attempt to distort what i say claim i say they should die off in an attempt to paint me as a fringe hate filled person, lol at your tie in to hitler. I wish everyone could live on clouds and eat candy and live forever – but thats not the way the world works.
when an ignorant person raises ignorant kids and they do something ignorant that gets themselves killed – thats darwinism
when a smart person makes wealth for themselves and creates a secure environment to raise children and his child goes on to grow in that environment and carries on his fathers wealth – that also is darwinism.
you ever watch the discovery channel ? you see when the weak or sick animal is stalked and killed by another animal – i dont condone that at all – but thats darwinism in action
Report Post »Citizen
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 10:32pmABC exclaims, “This is not just. A child cannot help or control what type of income he is born into. And a democracy requires voters who have a clue.”
the parents can control what type of income they are born into.
If you are poor and lazy and diseased and you want to have 8 kids the country can not afford to do so. You want a fantasy land where money is unlimited and all the ignorant can sponge off the rich.
you use an example of saying – in this country no one wants a family to starve to death because they lost their job.
first off no one starves to death because they lost their job – they starve to death because they are not prepared for the day they lose their job.
If you have a raft that holds one hundred people and you have 200 people drowning, you can fill the ship up to 100 but then you have to deny people to get on or you all will drown again. only so many resources and darwnism dictates the strong and smart will get it and the weak will die off.
but i do like your fantasy land idea where everything is free and everyone is happy – gosh i wish it was true
also i never say let the weak die – i say thats what does happen – scroll up and look at my words before you try to paint me as someone who wants the weak to die.
Report Post »Citizen
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 11:24pmoh and abc – perhaps it might be worth your while to understand why we are a republic and not a democracy.
Report Post »Doc_Slammin
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 11:52pm@ABC: Here are my ideas on education reform. They are too long to post here.
http://theindependentrant.blogspot.com/2010/11/education-reform.html
Feel free to comment or add su
Report Post »Doc_Slammin
Posted on November 11, 2010 at 11:54pm@ABC : My views on education are too lengthy to post here.
Visit : http://theindependentrant.blogspot.com/2010/11/education-reform.html
Report Post »fatpatriot
Posted on November 12, 2010 at 7:31am@ABC
Report Post »I have read your posts and although I think you make your points in a civil and thoughtful way,which I admire, there are a couple of points that are lost in this discussion or maybe I missed them. The idea that there is a “class struggle” between the Corpoartions and the workers is disingenuous. Most businesses are not GM, GE, Ford, IBM etc… The vast majority of employers are people who at some point sat around their kitchen table and made a decision to take a risk and “go into business”. That decision and risk may very well have jeopardized their economic future. But because of the opportunities afforded us as citizens of a free Republic they took the chance and struck out on their own. No safety net. They did it based on thoughtful planning and a belief in their abilities to provide a “better mousetrap.” Every citizen of the U.S. ahs the same opportunities as anyone employing 1-1000 employees. That is the Free Market System.
The fact that Corporations are more profitable today has more to do with the streamlining of operations than an attempt to purposely “screw” the workers. The economy has forced corporate America to do more with less in order to remain viable. I know how much I made as a teenager in the 60′s and I know how much a teenager makes today. In purchasing power, which is the real marker that should be used, that purchasing power is indeed higher. It cost me a month’s wages to buy a used stereo when I first started working and today because of advances in technology it is an awful lot less. Yes, energy costs, food cost, shelter costs have all risen dramatically, but people today that are trying to pay for these items aren’t working for minimum wage either. To raise a family today it is higher but it’s got nothing to do with Corporate profits vs worker pay. They are both subject to “whatever the market will bear”.
This has begun to ramble more than I wanted it to so I’ll stop now. I’ll try to respond again maybe if I can make my thoughts a little more coherent. It’s way to early in the morning.
GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 12, 2010 at 9:36am@ABC
Well, I thought you didn’t want to engage in political polemics, yet your answer(s) to the answer I gave you yesterday were condescending, arrogant, had no give-and-take, had you positing yourself as the only correct view and didn’t strike me as anything other than polemics.
Too bad. I was hoping you had a breakthrough yesterday and were interested in more than pushing your dogma. Mea culpa.
Report Post »janedough1
Posted on November 12, 2010 at 11:14pmHey cool! I thought I was the only person in the world who remembered the Funky Phantom!
Report Post »Inuyasha
Posted on November 16, 2010 at 5:05pmWherever there is a Socialist or Communist article on here you can be sure that ABC is out there to stand for it. Just move to China already.
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