As the constitutionality of Obamacare is examined this week by the highest court in the land, increased scrutiny has come under President Obama’s support of the most controversial provision of the healthcare reform bill: the “individual mandate” that requires individuals to have health insurance by 2014 or pay a penalty.
And now, an internal Obama administration memo sheds light on how Obama went from trashing the mandate during the campaign to embracing it as a cornerstone of the controversial legislation.
As we mentioned on Monday, the group American Crossroads released a web video illuminating Obama’s on-and-off support for the mandate. During the 2008 Democratic presidential primary campaign, strong support of the individual mandate was one of the few issues separating Hillary Clinton from Barack Obama. Obama pounded Clinton for her mandate proposal in ads leading up to the pivotal Pennsylvania Democratic primary, telling voters ”It forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can’t afford it, and you pay a penalty if you don’t.”
Buzzfeed’s Andrew Kaczynski assembled a highlight reel in January revealing the extent of Obama’s criticisms of the mandate during the 2008 campaign:
But when Obama entered the oval office and saw resistance towards his health care plan from Democrats in both the House and Senate the president began to change his tune. In search of where the flip-flop first occurred, The New Yorker published yesterday a seven-page April 2009 memo to President Obama from his top healthcare adviser Nancy-Ann DeParle:
The entire memo is worth reading—it reveals, among other things, that the Administration’s early estimate for its plan was $1.4 trillion and that it debated partially paying for health care with “a 10-cent excise tax on sugar-sweetened beverages”—but of particular interest are passages that include one of the earliest discussions with the President about how he would have to reverse the position he took during the campaign.
DeParle begins by summarizing for Obama the status of legislation in Congress. She notes that Democrats in both chambers are pro-mandate, meaning that Obama’s campaign position now makes him an outlier in the debate. Perhaps to nudge him in the mandate direction, she also reminds him that late in the campaign he started to make some pro-mandate noises.
[...]
Later in the document, there are two more notable items. One is that DeParle does not frame the case for the mandate strictly on the merits of the idea. Instead, she points out—somewhat grudgingly—that Obama would almost have to reverse his campaign position because of the way the Congressional Budget Office would treat a health-care bill without an individual mandate. [Emphasis added]
To sell the individual mandate to middle-class families, the memo reveals that DeParle went on to nudge the president to look to the plan in Massachusetts, AKA “Romneycare.” The New Yorker closes by acknowledging a July 2009 CBS interview, three months after the DeParle memo, where the president states his new position on the individual requirement to have health insurance.
Nancy-Ann DeParle (AP)
“I have come to that conclusion,” Obama said to CBS. “During the campaign I was opposed to this idea because my general attitude was the reason people don’t have health insurance is not because they don’t want it, it’s because they can’t afford it. And if you make it affordable, then they’ll come. I am now in favor of some sort of individual mandate as long as there’s a hardship exemption.”
In 2012, the individual mandate is at the heart of public resistance to Obamacare. A Gallup survey in February revealed that Americans, by an overwhelming margin of 52 percent, believe the mandate is unconstitutional.
IMPEACH the damn SOCIALIST NOW NO FURTHER WAITING its clear HE evita obama tax n speech DETESTS AMERICA.. save that which he FORKS out to his “FRIENDS” with OUR us tax dollars so sick of his BS.. he gave 50 grand each to MURDERING MUSLUM families.. yet doesnt demand a APOLOGY or cash for the hundreds of soildgers who were KILLED by MURDERING MUSLUMS.. NO he forks out CASH to HIS PEOPLE. n GIVES monies to the MUSLUM brotherhood.. its clear hes a traitor to the usa n us constitution IMPEACH OBAMA NOW
Mitt Romney called for a Federal Health Care plan based on RomneyCare back in 2009. Using RomneyCare as a template, Obama brought in several of Romney’s closest advisors to help structure the Federal version. Everyone from Barack Obama to Sarah Palin agrees that RomneyCare was the prototype for ObamaCare.
And so remind me again why the Republican Establishment is shoving a Massachusetts liberal down our throats? Oh that’s right … he’s really really really good looking.
With all these flip-flops and what are obvious lies to any honest observer, it should be clear that they have something they are hiding from the people they are supposed to be representing. They are hiding an agenda or multiple agendas from the people. It’s a tax, it’s a penalty, it’s a penalty tax, it doesn’t matter because our agenda is all that matters, truth and transparency must be denied. The ends justify the means? If you were honestly trying to help the people, there would be no reason for flip-flops, lies and secrets. You’re hiding the truth and constantly changing your stance because your agenda and your means are both corrupt and are not in the best interest of the people. If they were in our best interest, you would be gloating and giving yourself a medal and a statue for your blind followers to worship in your honor. Hail Caesar Obama. Nyet!
I doubt most Blaze readers are nominating Romney willingly. I voted for Santorum because Bachmann dropped out. Romney is being forced on us by the Republicans who fear that Libertarians and Conservatives won’t get the Independent votes. I think they’re wrong. I never cared about the parties before. I didn‘t really pay attention to politics until the debates in ’92, but I know I don’t want the Progressives telling us what to eat, what to do, what to buy… We need more people to understand the differences between Marxism and the free market and between Progressivism and Libertarianism. Everyone’s focused on the wrong thing… Republicans versus Democrats. Politicians will switch parties and positions when they think it gets them more votes. We need emphasis on character, honesty, and individual responsibility with our politicians and ourselves. If we continue to ignore these things, America will likely fail and we leave posterity a very bleak future. Romney’s better than what we have. I’ll vote for whomever the nominee is.
ABO
i have heard and read people who say hussien is a brilliant man, from what i have wittnesed lately i think he is as dumb as a bag of rocks. he does not have any new ideas, only the old marxist tune. he cannot speak unless the words are written down in front of him. his rigid marxist ideology makes him very dangerous because he has nothing else on his mind.
Okay let look at what libertarians want. Get rid of all government funded health programs:
1. No more veterans hospitals or clinics-you are on your own.
2. No more military health insurance- military and retirees you are on your own.
3. No more Medicaid- Let the working poor, the elderly poor, poor children and disabled go without health care.
4. No more Medicare. Seniors who can afford those pay $,000 per month private premiums get care. If they cannot too bad they can go without care, just them die.
We just paid for Dick Cheney’s heart transplant. He worked for the government his entire adult life,. Why not just let him die.
Wow, who taught you to do a strawman argument. Bravo! Of course libertarians don’t believe any of this, so that makes it even better! Do you work for Obama? Because that’s the only arguments he can muster. You mistate an opposing view and then say you disagree with it. Strawman. Good job.
Okay, let‘s phrase someone else’s argument from our own perspective!
Let’s oversimplify our opponents stances, so we can cast them in a negative light. Maybe we can trap them into arguing OUR version of their points. Won’t that be fun?
Bernbart, I don’t know a single Libertarian who thinks a country can exist without taxation. I don’t know a single person who thinks we should do without roads, or firemen.
I do know many people who think private companies generally provide better service for your dollars. Does that mean all things can be provided privately? I don‘t think that’s realistic, but there are many instances of cities moving to privatized water treatment, and road construction and maintenance. Those cities have been very successful, to my knowledge.
Let us assume we can’t privately supply good roads and clean water in every instance. Can we logically extrapolate (as you have) that clean water and safe roads are the same as personal health decisions? I don’t think so.
A road performs pretty much the same function, regardless of who uses it. Now, some cars are going to cause more wear than others, simply by virtue of their weight. I know this to be a fact.
Will a single doctor, or treatment, provide the same benefit to different people, regardless of who uses them? Seems to me your argument falls apart really fast, Bernbart.
Yeah, he also engages in painting every Libertarian, Liberal, and Christian with very broad brushes. Almost makes you think Bernbart is prejudiced in his narrow-minded thinking.
I don’t know about my fellow Blazers, but I don’t assume I know how all Christians think, much less all Liberals. I know plenty of Christians who are Progressives, so it’s really stupid for non-Christian Progressives to bash the religion. I suppose if you’re a religious bigot, though, that you can make logical leaps like those I’ve seen on this thread today.
BERNBART you’re an idiot, I will simplify libertarian beliefs so you won’t be confused or misled so easily. We libertarians believe in the smallest amount of FEDERAL government as possible, (i.e. the 16 enumerated powers layed out in that old piece of paper, you know that pesky Constitution you despise :) THEN, all other regualtions, rules, laws, ordinances, and so on are regulated by the States. THEN, whatever the States are not allowed to regulate, per that pesky piece of paper, then those rights are reserved to the people. it’s funny because making that definition just described the Constitution in a summed up definition. Funny how that coincides :)
Wow, Bernbart. That is probably the most clueless thing I’ve read. Libertarians don’t want to eliminate government – those are called anarchists, not Libertarians. We just want to reduce it’s size! Where on Earth did you ever learn that?!?! Whoever your teacher was was dishonest or crazy.
Millions of people do not want health insurance. They want ‘free” healthcare. Of those millions who are said not to have health insurance, they choose not too purchase it. Meanwhile they arre waiting for hours outside an Apple store to purchase $800.00 I – pads, while someone else is footing the bill for their health care. If the Obama mandate is held to be Constitutional, all registered Democrats and other leftist organizations will be given exemption from the mandate, by an Obama executive order if he is reelected, which means Republicans and Independents will pay for health care for Obama supporters.
Gee I see no liberals arguing against the Affordable Health care, only right wingers. Besides those people buying IPads are well educated people with jobs.
great , then they can pay for my HC or penalty..right???BTW..have some solar panels , they don’t work BUT YOU HAVE TO BUY THEM…comrade…after all it’s just YO MONEY..
Amen to That! You may find the following info very Interesting.
One of big benefits to Romneycare (Massachusetts government run healthcare) and Obamacare is that their supposed to cover everyone and do it at a significantly reduced cost all could afford. The government run healthcare of Massachusetts is not only a petri dish experiment showing this not to be the case, but that the exact opposite effect takes place.
The Massachusetts government designed the system to have the businesses carry the burden of costs for healthcare, but smaller businesses which make up the majority of employers simply can’t afford the costs of government run healthcare. As a result small businesses in Massachusetts are terminating their insurance plans for employees and instead depending on the state run healthcare system (Commonwealth Care) to take care of their employees.
For small businesses dropping employees from their heathcare roles has become a necessity due to high costs and an economy that is hitting their bottom lines hard. Sending employees to government run healthcare can mean the difference between closing their businesses or laying off employees just to stay afloat.
These businesses don’t get off Scott free though. The state government penalizes the business for doing this, but the cost in Massachusetts is only $295 annually per employee which is far less than if the companies continued to pay the insurance premiums. For example the Early Learning Child Care center
@FEDUPALREADY– It sounds like you are defending RomneyCare. At this point I need to remind you that RomneyCare and ObamaCare are both based on the same premise— FORCING PEOPLE TO BUY HEALTH INSURANCE AT THE BARREL OF A GUN. This is the very definition of Socialism.
Jaycen.
My religious beliefs or non beliefs are none of your business. This is a Democracy, not a Chrisian nation, so it does not matter what my religion is or even if I am a religious person. I do know that is the teachings of Jesus did not did not include the selfishness of the libertarian, Christian right.
Complain that I brought up religion, then dictate religion to me. Slick.
I’m pretty sure I keep telling you that all of your personal affairs are none of my business. The problem is, you seem to think all my personal affairs ARE your business.
Dude, try to stick to one side of your own argument. It’s less confusing for the rest of us.
BERNHART, I disagree with you and believe RELIGION, One Nation Under (Jahovah)God, to have been the cornerstone of America’s Blessings of Freedom and Liberty. We now have a MUSLIM President who mocks OUR God on every front, who is a proven Liar, a Communist and an Apologizing Destroyer of our once great Nation; INTENTIONLLY, it appears to many. But not to worry; America has not had a truly “Born from Above” President, Democrat or Republcan, in many years. Thusly, we are getting the WRATH of God for abortions, pornography, WARS, false imprisonments, Broken Families (divorces) and Drug abuse. Back in the Old Days, religion was not
worn on one’s sleeve to get votes; a man was said to be either “God Fearing” or nothing was said at all. And, for the most part, before POWER and GREED got our Elected to “sell out”, the majority abhored dishonesty, lying and cheating. These are now considered to simply be part of the programj,
to get MINE and to Hell with the rest of the Country.
BERNBART, Just because you say something does not make it so. This is not a Democracy we live in it is a Constituitional Republic. You and your kind have twisted the American people into believing that nonsense for the past 100 years but the proof lies in plain sight. The first sentence of the Pledge of Allegiance states “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all” Nowhere in there did I see Democracy. But its ok I can see why you would want to switch to a Democracy instead of a Republic if you had more nefarius reasons. Definiton of a Republic: A republic is a form of government in which the government is officially apportioned to the control of the people, or a significant portion of which, and where offices of state are subsequently directly or indirectly elected or appointed. Cant really get anything you want accomplished if all those pesky people are standing in your way. Then we go to definition of a Democracy:Democracy is an egalitarian form of government in which all the citizens of a nation together determine public policy, the laws and the actions of their state, requiring that all citizens (meeting certain qualifications) have an equal opportunity to express their opinion, then all you have to do is sway 51% of the people through handouts, free housing, free paychecks, free food, and other handouts and you achieve your goals
Yeah, you’re so right Bernbart. Jesus said give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, so that obviously means give to the government because they can best achieve the utmost success when it comes to using others’ money to do good and charitable endeavors with, right? Is that what he meant? Was it that we should be there to help Caesar out, especially if we are wealthy, because Jesus is looking at us as a collective society, where our eternal fate will be decided through collective salvation? Was he telling us to learn from Caesar and go out upon this earth and set up “benevolent” governments as collective societies so we can cure poverty and all other ills?
Seriously, where does individual responsibility come into play here? Oh, that’s right. Jesus said the only ones who are individually resonsible in society to the rest of society are the ones who are well-off, right? It’s harder for a rich man to get into heaven, yet if the ones who are rich are also the ones with the most responsibility according to you, then aren’t they doing much more good than the rest of society; thus, should be entitled to a spot in heaven? After all, they are the ones making sure that society and especially government are functioning properly with more than enough money.
How’s that for some anti-socialist logic? Please tell me where I’m mistaken, by all means.
Just for kicks, what Jesus meant when he said give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, I tend to believe as do many others, that he wanted people to pay their taxes that was demanded of them, BUT NOT A PENNY MORE! Yes, Jesus was saying go ahead and make sure you are “legal” but don’t go out of your way to make sure Caesar was getting taken care of. The moral of the story here is: be responsible as an individual, not a collective through despotism and government. The only way to salvation is individual, and any of these preachers who say it is collective have an alterior agenda that was not Jesus’.
Roundup_Logan:
Your proverb has no place in discussing benefit in our Democracy. This a Democracy, religion is private and should be kept that way, and out our government policies.
This is not a democracy…. It is a representative republic. Look the difference up on your iPad and read about the country. Jesus’s teachings are clear…Induviduals are free to give to the needy, and most Christians are happy to do so. He also said that you must live by the laws of the land…meaning in our case, the constitution, not unlawful legislation.
No this is not a democracy, if it was the popular vote would win elections. This is an electoral college system where we vote for some one to represent us. This is a land of laws that we elect people to represent us in making laws for us to follow.
@bernbart – your logic and comments I find of great humor as well as the shallowness of your deee of logical thinking. I‘ll keep reading your posts and delight in the ample beating you’ll take in you rebuke. If you had study the great minds of the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries instead of spending time playing your Xbox – I might be able to take you on a more serious level.
Um…first..you are clueless… The Founders specifically sited and quoted from scripture in support of the Declaration, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution. Try reading their notes, letters, and papers on the subject, even the Federalist and Anti-federalist papers are filled with references to God and the need for morality, ethics, and justice – all of which they deemed came from the Bible, with the exception of maybe 3-5 of the nearly 60 Founders. And even those that were deists or agnostic STILL acknowledged that the Bible was the PRIMARY source for knowing the Rights of Man.
Next, religious faith and belief have EVERYTHING to do with this discussion because it frames your thinking and your world view. It places you as someone that believes the government can control and ration and oversee mankind or that mankind was ENDOWED by his CREATOR with certain UNALIENABLE RIGHTS which a government can not and will not EVER be able to take away.
LAST and most important..
THIS IS A REPUBLIC! “and to the Republic for which it stands”. The USA has NEVER been a democracy. As for the teaching of Christ…if you don’t work, you don’t eat..comes to mind.. Charity is to be your individual duty NOT the governments…your first responsibility is to take care of your own family – one generation up, two down…then your neighbors (whom Jesus considers ALL Mankind).. Jesus NEVER taught people to sit on their BUTT and have the government ROB Peter to pay Paul
Thank you Scout187, BJRingo for clearing up the whole “democracy” thing. In my opinion, if Bernbrat doesn’t even know the difference between a constitutional representative republic and a European-style democracy, he has no leg to stand on. As usual, socialists make up the history and the facts as they go; otherwise they would have no platform whatsoever.
Medicare is an abysmal failure, and, Medicaid is growing in leaps and bounds, neither of these programs pay to the doctors and hospitals the cost of their services. MedicAid reinburses the states for health services they provide for the low income. However, Medicare doesn’t even come close to paying for services. I got a statement that said Medicare was billed $4,178.00 I owed a deductible of $179.00 and
they paid the hospital $508.00. I have a supplemental plan that covers my deductibles, thank God. If anyone didn‘t have any insurance they’d owe the whole amount while the Gov. and insurance companies pay a small pittance of the actual cost. No wonder doctors don’t want to accept MedicAid, and, Medicare patients and for all this I get to pay Medicare $110.00 a month out of my huge $219.00 SS check and $550.00 a month for my Supplemental plan. When the Gov. gets involved everyone gets screwed, but, those who get everything for nothing. I know because I live in Massachusetts and have to have insurance, so welcome to ObamaCare, you‘ll pay huge premiums for everyone else’s coverage.
You would be paying much bigger premiums if you did not have Medicare. What were your premiums before you went on Medicare … think about it. Besides Medicare is the most efficiently administered program. Private insurance costs to administer their programs are much higher than Medicare. By 2014 The Affordable Care act is going to require insurance companies to spend 80% of the premiums to pay for health care. Medcaire uses only 6% to administer it’s program.
Other countries are deliver better health care outcomes, at a much lower cost, because everyone pays into the health insurance.
@bernbart:
How much did Medicare have to pay in income tax? Just a guess but I am thinking that the insurance companys that are paying out 80% of premiums in health cost are also having to take a piece (34%) of what is left over and hand it to the IRS. Medicare, not so much. Sure helps when you get to use all of what you take in vs. having to pay a third of it out to the IRS. Wonder how long the government would stay afloat if they had to pay 1/3 of what they take in to someone else…would be preatty ugly considering that they already borrow $0.40 of every dollar that they spend.
If other countries paid for their own defense, then they wouldn’t have all of this wonderful extra money to spend on Social Programs.
They would have to be more innovative and would have to take the boot off of their economy and allow it to grow, and then…. yikes, there might be enough prosperity to allow INCENTIVES for social outcomes that were desired.
Imagine: “Hey Insurance companies, wanna compete for a tax write-off? See those uninsurable out there? Work out a deal with health care providers, and provide some basic coverage for them and we will underwrite the enterprize with a tax break”!!!
But no,no,no, that would not give the government dictator powers over the small details of business and individuals. Can’t have the people work out the details and leave us out of the fun and excitement of people living their lives without our direct input. THAT JUST WOULD NOT DO!
So we will have a blood sucking behemoth that will not respond to our pleas that it is killing us. And to think,…. we could have had an incentivized, responsive, competetive private sector going after tax write off candy serving the needs of those few left outside the safety net… wiped our hands and moved on to bringing WORLD PEACE.
Thanks Socialists. World Peace will elude us thanks to your selfishly demanding on having things “your way”!
Why is it that everytime Obama changes his position on things like this they always say “he flip flopped” when in fact what he did was “LIE” to the American people bold faced.
Jaycen;
Typical right winger, You have no good or logical arguments so you pull out the old tired,‘communists’ arguement, and now the new right wing argument, “atheists ,and neither has anything to do with the Affordable Care act. Nobody taking your freedom away, this is also an invalid argument. The affordable Care Act offers more choices and more health services, not less. Are yo telling me you have no health insurance?
Most doctors won’t even take patents who do not have health insurance. Hospitals will not take you as patients unless they have health insurance. So people who no insurance show up at emergency rooms and that costs the rest of us a lots of money. I say if they get rid of the mandate then emergency rooms should be allowed to turn away those uninsured, who refuse to buy insurance.
You public education and shallowness on the topic are true to form. It’s humurous to read such posts as these. And sense you seem to take exception to christians – I’ll leave you with Proverbs 30:15.
I don’t know how typical you are. I don’t care. Communist is not an argument, it’s a label. I labeled you, I didn’t argue the point. It’s obvious to anyone who reads your words that you are a Communist, so there’s no need for supporting points from me.
I asked if you were an atheist, and offered some reasons why I thought you might be. It‘s important to know where you’re coming from, because I don’t think we can have a logic debate if one of us refuses to stick to any logic. Right?
In terms of the rest of your argument about Socialist Health Care – I know doctors who take patients without insurance. I know several. In fact, my chiropractor is seeing my wife and daughters at a loss right now, because we fall outside of his coverage. We have a long history with him, and he told us flat out he didn’t mind cutting us a deal to keep our business. The fact is, you cannot dictate the behavior of all doctors or all patients. You can‘t know what they will or won’t do. Only the individuals can know that.
More importantly, it’s none of your business and none of mine, unless I happen to be dealing with a specific doctor. Stay out of my business, Bernbart. I don’t want to be involved in yours. Why do you insist on poking your nose into mine?
bernbart….Gee have any of you “New age progressive communists” In case you didn’t get the memo a “New age progressive communist” like yourself believes in the government giving you the right to job, housing, health care , schooling, retirement,food,then believes strictly in the total control and regulation of the state..as in the EPA, USDA,FDA, Then the government using these and other government agencies to control what and whom commerce is done with and what commerce is done, and what goods and services are available to consume. Today the “New age progressive communist”Such as yourself wants this government control and Czar and elite control of our society. There is no middle ground in a nations founded and formed on individual liberty and freedom. Also the “New age progressive communist” is desperately trying to enact this communism without the blood on their hands of a Mao, or Stalin…So now getting back to health care…Have you ever given thought to what the cost or growth and efficiency of medicine would have been today without the government intervention. You “New age progressive communist” never, ever want to give the free market place the freedom to do what it does best create goods and services and promote prosperity for the nation…
Bernbart, your Messiah Obama is a commie and he’s counting on lemmings like you to push his agenda forward. He’s hoping that by the time you wake up government will be in complete control and his idea of a “social justice” society will have been established.
If the health care stands it will signal the END of theREPUBLIC
The constition will be null & void
All power left to the states will go to the Dicktater FEDS,And all rights with it.
Being NO disrespect to Flag or what it stands for,and with my time in Uniform
Defending same.
One US Flag at my house is flying upside down
And will stay that way untill the progressives COMMIES are nolonger a threat
to our Nation.I need your help
Starting on wed.I would like to see others showing support for the Country .and a sign to
the commies
OVER MY DEAD BODY.
I WOULD LIKE ALL WHO HAVE AND ARE IN UNIFORM TO STOP AND THINK……
I could never again put that uniform for this adm.
but for My Country My Government (WE THE PEOPLE) My oath still STANDS
Merci. It is a good idea. I have already hung a small flag in my front window…,upside down, until President Dunham and his Progressive ilk are flushed from government.
You’re finally right! I am a threat to your “democracy”. People like me (Tea Partiers) believe in the power of the Republic. Direct democracy has been a dismal failure everywhere it’s been tried. The founders knew this, because they studied history ferociously.
You fail to understand it. I doubt you care. Democracy is mob rule. Republicanism helps preserve freedom, because it slows down change.
Thank you HALF, this explains everything anyone needs to know about this administration in 7 steps that are easily attached to their approach to promote their agenda.
Romeeycare in MA is working quit well. Let’s not forget the affordable Care act was negotiated and passed in a bipartisan vote in Congress. Rove’s Crossroads is out to destroy Medicare via this SC ruling and protect only the coroporate interests who donate money to his political apparatus. The majority support Health Care Reform. Of those who oppose it are liberals who thought it did not go far enough, and include a pubic option. Of those who oppose it most do not even understand what is included in the bill, and the oppositon has used nothing but lies to shore up support.
If the SC rules against the federal mandate for Health reform will not over turn the entire law, only the mandate which would eventually reduce premium costs for all. Many states are already in the process of setting up their health insurance exchanges. If the federal mandate is over turned many state are ready to pass a mandate at the state level. In those states which do not participate those who buy insurance will continue to pay higher premiums.
Just do not get why anyone would not want to have health insurance. It seems pretty irresponsible not to have health insurance.
I just don’t understand why people like you want to dictate to everyone else how to live their life. Like it’s any business of yours what I do with my money, or with whom, or when, or WHY!
Bernbart, you are a Communist. Your entire first two paragraphs of your comment assume you know why people are doing what they do. You can’t possibly know any of that, but you assume you do. You think you know more than everyone around you. Are you an atheist? I’m asking, because I can only conceive of an atheist thinking he knows what’s in the hearts and minds of everyone around him.
In my world, only God can know that, and you’re no God. Just another busy-body jerk who wants to push everyone else around. What’s the matter? Don‘t feel like you’re in control of your own life, so you try to control everyone else? Hate freedom much? No…I’m sure you love freedom, so long as it’s your own.
Romeeycare in MA is working quit well.
============================
It ought to……..since the federal government is pick up nearly 2/3 of the cost:
——————————-
“But first, it must be noted that Romneycare’s health insurance coverage gains are not all that impressive. Before Romneycare became law, already only 6.4 percent of Massachusetts residents did not have health insurance. By 2010 Romneycare drove the number down to 1.9 percent. That’s just a 4.5 percent gain. And nearly 80 percent of those who gained coverage did so through taxpayer funded government programs.
And those government programs are proving far more expensive than projected. Last year the program cost $2.12 billion, but Massachusetts only ended up picking up 18 percent of the tab. Thanks to waivers, special deals with the federal government, and stimulus dollars, the federal government picked up another 64 percent of the costs while private health insurance consumers picked up the rest of the tab (through higher premiums and co-pays passed on by hospitals and insurers). Looking ahead to next year, the state is expected to be almost $200 million short of paying for the program. Overall, total state health care spending has grown from 30 percent of the budget in 2006 to 40 percent today. The national average is 25 percent.” http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/beltway-confidential/2011/06/romneycare-has-not-%E2%80%9Cworke
I dare ask do you have:
Funeral Insurance
Disability Insurance
Life Insurance
Home Owners Insurance
Auto Insurance
Flood Insurance
Long term care Insurance
I‘m sure there’s a lot of other insurance out there that would be cheaper if everyone was forced to buy it. I don’t carry health insurance, but i don’t get treated at the emergency room either. I pay cash at the doctor every time I go. I know lots of other folks who do the same thing. So to lump everyone together as deadbeats who don’t have health insurance is a false argument to begin wit. You’ve been brainwashed by the media into your line of thinking. It’s because of Medicare and Medicaide and the government regulations already in place which have driven the cost sky high. I actually get a rather large discount by paying cash at the doctors office and I make them justify each and every test they want to run. Those that have insurance don‘t really care because like any good democrate they’re spending other peoples money – in this case the insurance companies money.
I understand OldGuy49. Sorry to chew you out over Term Limits yesterday.
I have been guilty of the Progressive mindset, myself in the past. It’s easy to slip into the pattern that “everyone ought to…” The problem is, no matter how awesome I am I’m still in no position to tell everyone else what they “ought to do”.
Freedom must be our default mode of operation. On every subject, we must consider “does this make my neighbor more free or less free?” We must think of our neighbor’s freedom, not our own. Only when our neighbor’s freedom starts to impinge on ours does their freedom end.
Remember, if it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg, it’s not my business.
The fact that MY money pays for YOUR insurance is the whole problem for me.
If EVERYONE – poor included – had to pay the same rate, I would feel MUCH better about it,
although I still don’t like the gvmt FORCING me to do/buy anything.
How about for every dollar WE spend on YOUR healthcare, we deduct a dollar from your
unemployment/welfare/food stamp/WIC/etc freeloading AZZ?
I’m TIRED of supporting employable BUMS.
I’d even give a pass to truely indigent/incapable people.
But if they ever get caught walking/lifting/using their hands, I’d lock
them up for life – or worse.
Faking illness/injury is a lot of what has risen the price for the REST of us.
I used to take your position on the “truely indigent”, but the fact is, I know too many people who are poor.
I know too many poor people who:
*ate themselves into obesity and diabetes, even years after being warned by their doctor these people won’t change their lifestyle.
*used drugs to ignore reality, then complained they were fired for not showing up to work.
*drank alcohol and smashed up a car, only to have mommy and daddy pay for their mistake. Then watched them do it again.
Of all the very poor people I know, not a single one is poor “through no fault of his own”. I even have an in-law who lost his job. I offered to get him a job where I worked, but it was $10K less a year than he made before, and he scoffed at me. This was after 8 months on unemployment and complaining that he was about to run out. This was from a 50 year old man.
You think there are “millions of poor Americans” who desperately need your help? For the most part, that’s simply not true. And in the rare case when it is true, then get off your butt and help someone. Collect food, run a fundraiser. My wife is setting one up now to help out her aunt who had brain cancer. Other than the time investment, it’s not that hard to do, and people are very generous.
The government can’t do it as effectively as individuals. Collectivism is a collective FAIL.
Bernbart…
Romneycare is working well?? Really? Did you know that Romneycare relies HEAVILY on Federal funding? That is right, without it, the costs would skyrocket. The bill offsets that cost to citizens of MA by reallocating funding for the state Medicaid program (given to them by the Feds) into the insurance exchange. And there are still quite a few MA citizens that do not have insurance, why? They CHOOSE not to and the small fine isn’t worth paying the thousands insurance would cost them.
OH, and lets not forget.. STATES are Sovereign and CAN do this…the Federal government CAN’T!! the 10th Amendment says so!!
Next…88% of the US had insurance BEFORE Obamacare….of the supposed 43 million without, 1/3 were illegals so they don‘t deserve to have taxpayer paid for insurance since they DON’T pay taxes for the most part and are here ILLEGALLY. Another 1/3 can afford insurance and have it offered through their employer they just CHOOSE not to get it..mainly because they are single and in good health and see no reason to pay about 6-8000 a year for something, it is easier just to pay out of pocket.
As for that last 1/3, about 12-15 million people…most of those ALREADY qualify for Medicare or Medicaid or some other form of subsidized insurance and just have not applied or don’t know they could apply.
So we are spending 1.4 Trillion now to insure 15 million people at most.. Wow…90K per person for something that costs 6-8000.. 12 times MORE!! IDIO
We used to make the equivalent of six figures when I was in the military. When I got out of the military, my husband ended up taking a huge pay cut from what he was making before I got into the military because he couldn’t work in his profession overseas and he lost years of experience.
We’ve been spending the last 10 years trying to get back to a decent income. We were starting to do pretty well… my husband started college and had a decent paying job, and we were quite comfortable. Then he lost 4 jobs in 2007… every time he would get hired, the company would go out of business or make drastic cutbacks 2 months later.
So now both my husband and I have started our own businesses. My husband is in law school. I homeschool my kids, so I save the government about $10,000 a year by not using the public school system. Yet, we make below the poverty level, so we are technically “poor” by definition.
I average about one alcoholic drink a year, have never smoked or did any drugs (although I was a caffeine addict, but am no longer). I don’t plan on remaining poor, but I happen to be here, probably until my husband gets out of law school. I was also poor (temporarily) when I got out of high school.
People can be poor temporarily without doing anything wrong.
Brooke- you sound like someone TEMPORARILY in need of help. I can appreciate that. Especially in this obamanation of an economy.
I could be wrong but wouldn’t you and your husband HAVE insurance – being vets?
Anyone who puts their life out there for us should.
But I also remember Obama saying back 3 years ago when campaigning that vets were all “volunteers” and therefore deserve to PAY for their own insurance.
His intent was to show his hatred for the military in general to a crowd of worshippers…
Damned if I can find a video of it but I know what I heard. I was shocked.
A lot like his 57 state tour…
Temporary assistance SHOULD be available to anyone down on their luck. Obamacare is not THAT.
Much like the unemployed who REFUSE jobs because they can get toooo much for NOT working, it is a plan for permanent dependance.
MAKE people dependant, they will do anything you say…
Bernbart – I’d love to hear your thoughts on Greece.
poor citizens – no more massive gvmt perks for ALL.
And WE are further in debt than THEY are.
The only difference is we can PRINT more money, but it deflates the value therefore “necessarily” making prices skyrocket on EVERYTHING.
But again, that puts more companies out of work and makes more people dependant on the Gvmt,
SOME folks in Congress LIKE it that way…
Anyone who has ever read t/he constitution and all the state arguments during its ratification along with the Federalist/Anti-Federalist papers know whether or not this law holds water as to its constitutionality. But those that have a limited education and get their news from the media line up waiting for their handouts from the federal government. There is a super majority of voters now in this country that have been so dumbed down by the education system I find it hard to believe they could survive without the federal government.
I’d say those who have been dumbed down the most are those right wing Christians who are home schooled, and those who watch FOX.
The Anti government libertarians want to destroy all government programs and thus our Democracy.
Don;tyou depend on government for defense, police, fire departments, roads bridges, sewers, schools.
Why not the mos basic need in life health care.
Of course the affordable care Act did not create any government run insurance, and consumer now have more health choices, more care, not less.
@bernbart – According to our constitution the federal government is suppose to provide national defense. Police, fire, and other services are not provided by the federal government because they’re not in our constitution. Roads are provided for in the cconstitution – but healthcare was never mentioned by the founding fathers. Certainly they had doctors back then – but they never put your healthcare as a “right” protected by the constitution. With regards to homeschooling- I’d take that over the current public school system everyday. The greatness of our public school system is reflected by our ranking in the world with math and sciences. Your logic is humurous.
@bernbart – you’re the prime example of what I was talking about. Your post just afirms what I said as being true. All’s I can do is laugh at the shallowness of your thought process.
bernbart
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:35pm
I’d say those who have been dumbed down the most are those right wing Christians who are home schooled, and those who watch FOX.
The Anti government libertarians want to destroy all government programs and thus our Democracy.
Don;tyou depend on government for defense, police, fire departments, roads bridges, sewers, schools.
Why not the mos basic need in life health care.
Of course the affordable care Act did not create any government run insurance, and consumer now have more health choices, more care, not less.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of course you’d say that, Bernbart, because you don‘t really know if it’s true or not, and you don’t care. You’d say anything that advanced your viewpoint, because in your philosophy, you don’t adjust your theory to match the facts, you invent facts to support your theory. In your mind, you can’t possibly be wrong, so when you find yourself wrong, you simply ignore the obvious and make up something about the world around you that casts you as the righteous victim of an unjust world.
The dumbest thing you said was in your first sentence – “right wing Christians”. If you despise the Christians who want to legislate their morality, then you hate “Left-wing Christians”. The right is all about freedom. The left is all about Statism.
Nice to know that Mitt Romney and his Romneycare helped nudge Obama to this mandate. I am sure Obama will thank him in the debates. Romney should give serious thought to the suggestions of Steve Forbes on this whole Romneycare business.
Hey, who cares if it was a “State issue”? On its face, socialized medicine is a bad idea. No Constitutional Conservative (or anyone with an ounce of common sense) would think this is a good idea, so who cares if he implemented Socialism at the State level or the Federal level.
Romney fans keep saying that Conservatives should support RomneyCare because “it’s a states rights issue”
So if a state makes a law that taxpayers have to pay for other people’s abortions, we as Conservatives have to support that? If a state says that heterosexual marriage is now illegal we Conservatives have to support that? Conservatives have to support everything that States do? Is that seriously what you’re saying?
The health care bill was passed even though 75% of the people rejected it!
They are supposed to respect our wishes not a socialist agenda.
Even as I post they know we do not want it but they will not relent.
Their could only be one reason for this.
The bill gives them more power over our lives which will allow them to better control us.
The song that best fits this situation is “What’s Wrong With This Song” http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_9134749
But the best song for NObama is
“The Devils Song” http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_10789987
.
”It forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can’t afford it, and you pay a penalty if you don’t.”
In other words Bend over, Spread your legs, & Grab your cheeks and listen for those immortal words, “We’re from the Government and we’re here to Help!”…….
lloyd, If this were the true reason for the mandate, wheres the outcry about all the illegal aliens freeloading? Barack spews garbage about personal responsibility as he pushes social and economic justice, well, which is it, Personal responsibility or socialism? Pick one ya idiot, you can’t have both!
If you cannot afford to buy health insurance you can go on Medicaid,or get assistance in buying it. If you are not poor enough to be on Medicaid then you can afford to buy health insurance, and yo do not then you are irresponsible.
Obamacare is not socialism. You want an example of socialism, consider VA medical care, where facilities are owned by, and doctors work for, the government. Obamacare is something different. Rather than being “a government takeover of health care.” it attempts to expand the coverage provided by private insurance. The question of illegal aliens is a red herring. The 30 million or so people who have neither Medicare, Medicaid or employer-sponsored insurance include rich and poor, legal and illegal, all races and conditions. People like you and me, who are responsibly insured, pay for these people’s care. Under Obamacare, this problem will be alleviated, though not solved.
VA Medical care is Not socialism by any means. I am a 26yr Veteran an I don’t get VA Medical care because I was not injured in the service of my country. Veterans who receive injuries were promised and are owed appropriate health compensation.. This is an earned benefit.
Socialism is where you simply have to be born to collect a benefit, which is apparently the case with you. Stick to examples that you have experience in , slacker.
OldVet:
Socialism means government ownership of productive or distributive property. Its definition has nothing directly to do with the earned/entitled distinction with regard to government benefits. Wounded veterans do in fact receive care at government facilities, from medical personnel who are government employees. To that extent, and for that limited clientele, the VA is socialist, exactly like the British NHS.
the gallows at Leavenworth would be too humane for that rabid communist animal obama after what he has done to destroy America across every single category imaginable.
That 2700 pages was crammed full full with quotes like this “ to be deemed later”. The estimates for the final page count (if this monstrosity is kept in place) would place it somewhere in the vicinity of 100,000 pages of regulations,rules , legalize ….the entire excorcise is to so confuse, make it so difficult for the private insurance industry to cope with that they will get out of the business altogether thus giving the Feds (and the liberals) what they wanbted from the outset… a single payer system wholly run by the Feds…In other words a true socialist medicine model (that has been a disaster in the UK and anywhere else stupid enough to adopt it).
‘…as long as there‘s a hardship exemption’.. say, like, it being Unconstituional? Is that a ‘hardship’ Barry? This guy couldn’t pass an 8th grade civics class, let alone graduate from High School.
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Comments (190)
zoro51
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:41pmIMPEACH the damn SOCIALIST NOW NO FURTHER WAITING its clear HE evita obama tax n speech DETESTS AMERICA.. save that which he FORKS out to his “FRIENDS” with OUR us tax dollars so sick of his BS.. he gave 50 grand each to MURDERING MUSLUM families.. yet doesnt demand a APOLOGY or cash for the hundreds of soildgers who were KILLED by MURDERING MUSLUMS.. NO he forks out CASH to HIS PEOPLE. n GIVES monies to the MUSLUM brotherhood.. its clear hes a traitor to the usa n us constitution IMPEACH OBAMA NOW
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 5:30pmThe Senate Democrats are the RoadBlock!
Report Post »southernORcobra
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 6:07pmAnd you idiots theink Romney i the guy? LMFAO
Report Post »gsp9993
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 7:25pmI agree. He should be impeached and impaled.
Report Post »BarackStalin
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 7:28pmBefore his election someone else was getting paid by the insurance companies to sell the American people into slavery…
After his election, he was getting paid by the insurance companies to sell the American people into slavery…
That’s the difference…
Report Post »tnarc2
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:05amIf we hate ObamaCare so much why are we nominating the guy who invented it?
Report Post »tnarc2
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:31amMitt Romney called for a Federal Health Care plan based on RomneyCare back in 2009. Using RomneyCare as a template, Obama brought in several of Romney’s closest advisors to help structure the Federal version. Everyone from Barack Obama to Sarah Palin agrees that RomneyCare was the prototype for ObamaCare.
Report Post »And so remind me again why the Republican Establishment is shoving a Massachusetts liberal down our throats? Oh that’s right … he’s really really really good looking.
Shiroi Raion
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 2:11amWith all these flip-flops and what are obvious lies to any honest observer, it should be clear that they have something they are hiding from the people they are supposed to be representing. They are hiding an agenda or multiple agendas from the people. It’s a tax, it’s a penalty, it’s a penalty tax, it doesn’t matter because our agenda is all that matters, truth and transparency must be denied. The ends justify the means? If you were honestly trying to help the people, there would be no reason for flip-flops, lies and secrets. You’re hiding the truth and constantly changing your stance because your agenda and your means are both corrupt and are not in the best interest of the people. If they were in our best interest, you would be gloating and giving yourself a medal and a statue for your blind followers to worship in your honor. Hail Caesar Obama. Nyet!
Report Post »Shiroi Raion
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 2:50amI doubt most Blaze readers are nominating Romney willingly. I voted for Santorum because Bachmann dropped out. Romney is being forced on us by the Republicans who fear that Libertarians and Conservatives won’t get the Independent votes. I think they’re wrong. I never cared about the parties before. I didn‘t really pay attention to politics until the debates in ’92, but I know I don’t want the Progressives telling us what to eat, what to do, what to buy… We need more people to understand the differences between Marxism and the free market and between Progressivism and Libertarianism. Everyone’s focused on the wrong thing… Republicans versus Democrats. Politicians will switch parties and positions when they think it gets them more votes. We need emphasis on character, honesty, and individual responsibility with our politicians and ourselves. If we continue to ignore these things, America will likely fail and we leave posterity a very bleak future. Romney’s better than what we have. I’ll vote for whomever the nominee is.
Report Post »ABO
old white guy
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 6:21ami have heard and read people who say hussien is a brilliant man, from what i have wittnesed lately i think he is as dumb as a bag of rocks. he does not have any new ideas, only the old marxist tune. he cannot speak unless the words are written down in front of him. his rigid marxist ideology makes him very dangerous because he has nothing else on his mind.
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 7:53amSouthern, get a clue. Federal versus state. Big difference.
Report Post »bernbart
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:37pmOkay let look at what libertarians want. Get rid of all government funded health programs:
1. No more veterans hospitals or clinics-you are on your own.
2. No more military health insurance- military and retirees you are on your own.
3. No more Medicaid- Let the working poor, the elderly poor, poor children and disabled go without health care.
4. No more Medicare. Seniors who can afford those pay $,000 per month private premiums get care. If they cannot too bad they can go without care, just them die.
We just paid for Dick Cheney’s heart transplant. He worked for the government his entire adult life,. Why not just let him die.
Report Post »cliffattheblaze
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:51pmWow, who taught you to do a strawman argument. Bravo! Of course libertarians don’t believe any of this, so that makes it even better! Do you work for Obama? Because that’s the only arguments he can muster. You mistate an opposing view and then say you disagree with it. Strawman. Good job.
Jaycen
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:59pmOkay, let‘s phrase someone else’s argument from our own perspective!
Let’s oversimplify our opponents stances, so we can cast them in a negative light. Maybe we can trap them into arguing OUR version of their points. Won’t that be fun?
Bernbart, I don’t know a single Libertarian who thinks a country can exist without taxation. I don’t know a single person who thinks we should do without roads, or firemen.
I do know many people who think private companies generally provide better service for your dollars. Does that mean all things can be provided privately? I don‘t think that’s realistic, but there are many instances of cities moving to privatized water treatment, and road construction and maintenance. Those cities have been very successful, to my knowledge.
Let us assume we can’t privately supply good roads and clean water in every instance. Can we logically extrapolate (as you have) that clean water and safe roads are the same as personal health decisions? I don’t think so.
A road performs pretty much the same function, regardless of who uses it. Now, some cars are going to cause more wear than others, simply by virtue of their weight. I know this to be a fact.
Will a single doctor, or treatment, provide the same benefit to different people, regardless of who uses them? Seems to me your argument falls apart really fast, Bernbart.
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 3:02pm@Cliffattheblaze
Yeah, he also engages in painting every Libertarian, Liberal, and Christian with very broad brushes. Almost makes you think Bernbart is prejudiced in his narrow-minded thinking.
I don’t know about my fellow Blazers, but I don’t assume I know how all Christians think, much less all Liberals. I know plenty of Christians who are Progressives, so it’s really stupid for non-Christian Progressives to bash the religion. I suppose if you’re a religious bigot, though, that you can make logical leaps like those I’ve seen on this thread today.
Report Post »jakartaman
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 3:44pmWhat type of name is Bernbart??
Whatever you are an idiot!
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 4:06pmdont respond to him – obviously a troll
Report Post »US_SOLDIER
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 5:02pmBERNBART you’re an idiot, I will simplify libertarian beliefs so you won’t be confused or misled so easily. We libertarians believe in the smallest amount of FEDERAL government as possible, (i.e. the 16 enumerated powers layed out in that old piece of paper, you know that pesky Constitution you despise :) THEN, all other regualtions, rules, laws, ordinances, and so on are regulated by the States. THEN, whatever the States are not allowed to regulate, per that pesky piece of paper, then those rights are reserved to the people. it’s funny because making that definition just described the Constitution in a summed up definition. Funny how that coincides :)
Report Post »jerkie93
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 5:24pmAll of those are money losers for our Country. Why should we add more?
Report Post »Anything the Government runs is a money loser PERIOD.
hstowell
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 5:48pmBernbart, is that what Comrade Obama told you to write?
Report Post »hstowell
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 5:53pmBernbart, did Comrade Obama tell you to say that?
Report Post »MeMadMax
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 8:39pmhehe.
Report Post »Your argument has merit, but you forgot one thing:
Insurance companies still exist…………..
Mr.ManZ
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 1:07amYou got some real damage !
Report Post »Shiroi Raion
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 2:59amWow, Bernbart. That is probably the most clueless thing I’ve read. Libertarians don’t want to eliminate government – those are called anarchists, not Libertarians. We just want to reduce it’s size! Where on Earth did you ever learn that?!?! Whoever your teacher was was dishonest or crazy.
Report Post »inferno
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:31pmMillions of people do not want health insurance. They want ‘free” healthcare. Of those millions who are said not to have health insurance, they choose not too purchase it. Meanwhile they arre waiting for hours outside an Apple store to purchase $800.00 I – pads, while someone else is footing the bill for their health care. If the Obama mandate is held to be Constitutional, all registered Democrats and other leftist organizations will be given exemption from the mandate, by an Obama executive order if he is reelected, which means Republicans and Independents will pay for health care for Obama supporters.
Report Post »bernbart
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:41pmGee I see no liberals arguing against the Affordable Health care, only right wingers. Besides those people buying IPads are well educated people with jobs.
Report Post »michael48
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 3:48pmgreat , then they can pay for my HC or penalty..right???BTW..have some solar panels , they don’t work BUT YOU HAVE TO BUY THEM…comrade…after all it’s just YO MONEY..
Report Post »FedUpAlready
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 4:40pmAmen to That! You may find the following info very Interesting.
One of big benefits to Romneycare (Massachusetts government run healthcare) and Obamacare is that their supposed to cover everyone and do it at a significantly reduced cost all could afford. The government run healthcare of Massachusetts is not only a petri dish experiment showing this not to be the case, but that the exact opposite effect takes place.
The Massachusetts government designed the system to have the businesses carry the burden of costs for healthcare, but smaller businesses which make up the majority of employers simply can’t afford the costs of government run healthcare. As a result small businesses in Massachusetts are terminating their insurance plans for employees and instead depending on the state run healthcare system (Commonwealth Care) to take care of their employees.
For small businesses dropping employees from their heathcare roles has become a necessity due to high costs and an economy that is hitting their bottom lines hard. Sending employees to government run healthcare can mean the difference between closing their businesses or laying off employees just to stay afloat.
These businesses don’t get off Scott free though. The state government penalizes the business for doing this, but the cost in Massachusetts is only $295 annually per employee which is far less than if the companies continued to pay the insurance premiums. For example the Early Learning Child Care center
Report Post »tnarc2
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 11:53pm@FEDUPALREADY– It sounds like you are defending RomneyCare. At this point I need to remind you that RomneyCare and ObamaCare are both based on the same premise— FORCING PEOPLE TO BUY HEALTH INSURANCE AT THE BARREL OF A GUN. This is the very definition of Socialism.
Report Post »bernbart
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:26pmJaycen.
Report Post »My religious beliefs or non beliefs are none of your business. This is a Democracy, not a Chrisian nation, so it does not matter what my religion is or even if I am a religious person. I do know that is the teachings of Jesus did not did not include the selfishness of the libertarian, Christian right.
Jaycen
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:54pmI mark you, “HYPOCRITE”.
Complain that I brought up religion, then dictate religion to me. Slick.
I’m pretty sure I keep telling you that all of your personal affairs are none of my business. The problem is, you seem to think all my personal affairs ARE your business.
Dude, try to stick to one side of your own argument. It’s less confusing for the rest of us.
Report Post »G.W. Dobbs
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 6:12pmBERNHART, I disagree with you and believe RELIGION, One Nation Under (Jahovah)God, to have been the cornerstone of America’s Blessings of Freedom and Liberty. We now have a MUSLIM President who mocks OUR God on every front, who is a proven Liar, a Communist and an Apologizing Destroyer of our once great Nation; INTENTIONLLY, it appears to many. But not to worry; America has not had a truly “Born from Above” President, Democrat or Republcan, in many years. Thusly, we are getting the WRATH of God for abortions, pornography, WARS, false imprisonments, Broken Families (divorces) and Drug abuse. Back in the Old Days, religion was not
Report Post »worn on one’s sleeve to get votes; a man was said to be either “God Fearing” or nothing was said at all. And, for the most part, before POWER and GREED got our Elected to “sell out”, the majority abhored dishonesty, lying and cheating. These are now considered to simply be part of the programj,
to get MINE and to Hell with the rest of the Country.
US_SOLDIER
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 6:24pmBERNBART, Just because you say something does not make it so. This is not a Democracy we live in it is a Constituitional Republic. You and your kind have twisted the American people into believing that nonsense for the past 100 years but the proof lies in plain sight. The first sentence of the Pledge of Allegiance states “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all” Nowhere in there did I see Democracy. But its ok I can see why you would want to switch to a Democracy instead of a Republic if you had more nefarius reasons. Definiton of a Republic: A republic is a form of government in which the government is officially apportioned to the control of the people, or a significant portion of which, and where offices of state are subsequently directly or indirectly elected or appointed. Cant really get anything you want accomplished if all those pesky people are standing in your way. Then we go to definition of a Democracy:Democracy is an egalitarian form of government in which all the citizens of a nation together determine public policy, the laws and the actions of their state, requiring that all citizens (meeting certain qualifications) have an equal opportunity to express their opinion, then all you have to do is sway 51% of the people through handouts, free housing, free paychecks, free food, and other handouts and you achieve your goals
Report Post »jeffersonian1776
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 1:01amYeah, you’re so right Bernbart. Jesus said give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, so that obviously means give to the government because they can best achieve the utmost success when it comes to using others’ money to do good and charitable endeavors with, right? Is that what he meant? Was it that we should be there to help Caesar out, especially if we are wealthy, because Jesus is looking at us as a collective society, where our eternal fate will be decided through collective salvation? Was he telling us to learn from Caesar and go out upon this earth and set up “benevolent” governments as collective societies so we can cure poverty and all other ills?
Report Post »Seriously, where does individual responsibility come into play here? Oh, that’s right. Jesus said the only ones who are individually resonsible in society to the rest of society are the ones who are well-off, right? It’s harder for a rich man to get into heaven, yet if the ones who are rich are also the ones with the most responsibility according to you, then aren’t they doing much more good than the rest of society; thus, should be entitled to a spot in heaven? After all, they are the ones making sure that society and especially government are functioning properly with more than enough money.
How’s that for some anti-socialist logic? Please tell me where I’m mistaken, by all means.
jeffersonian1776
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 1:19amJust for kicks, what Jesus meant when he said give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, I tend to believe as do many others, that he wanted people to pay their taxes that was demanded of them, BUT NOT A PENNY MORE! Yes, Jesus was saying go ahead and make sure you are “legal” but don’t go out of your way to make sure Caesar was getting taken care of. The moral of the story here is: be responsible as an individual, not a collective through despotism and government. The only way to salvation is individual, and any of these preachers who say it is collective have an alterior agenda that was not Jesus’.
Report Post »bernbart
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:20pmRoundup_Logan:
Report Post »Your proverb has no place in discussing benefit in our Democracy. This a Democracy, religion is private and should be kept that way, and out our government policies.
Scout187
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 3:00pmThis is not a democracy…. It is a representative republic. Look the difference up on your iPad and read about the country. Jesus’s teachings are clear…Induviduals are free to give to the needy, and most Christians are happy to do so. He also said that you must live by the laws of the land…meaning in our case, the constitution, not unlawful legislation.
Report Post »Bjringo
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 3:02pmNo this is not a democracy, if it was the popular vote would win elections. This is an electoral college system where we vote for some one to represent us. This is a land of laws that we elect people to represent us in making laws for us to follow.
Report Post »Roundup_Logan
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 3:28pm@bernbart – your logic and comments I find of great humor as well as the shallowness of your deee of logical thinking. I‘ll keep reading your posts and delight in the ample beating you’ll take in you rebuke. If you had study the great minds of the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries instead of spending time playing your Xbox – I might be able to take you on a more serious level.
Report Post »VRW Conspirator
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 3:38pmUm…first..you are clueless… The Founders specifically sited and quoted from scripture in support of the Declaration, the Articles of Confederation, and the Constitution. Try reading their notes, letters, and papers on the subject, even the Federalist and Anti-federalist papers are filled with references to God and the need for morality, ethics, and justice – all of which they deemed came from the Bible, with the exception of maybe 3-5 of the nearly 60 Founders. And even those that were deists or agnostic STILL acknowledged that the Bible was the PRIMARY source for knowing the Rights of Man.
Report Post »Next, religious faith and belief have EVERYTHING to do with this discussion because it frames your thinking and your world view. It places you as someone that believes the government can control and ration and oversee mankind or that mankind was ENDOWED by his CREATOR with certain UNALIENABLE RIGHTS which a government can not and will not EVER be able to take away.
LAST and most important..
THIS IS A REPUBLIC! “and to the Republic for which it stands”. The USA has NEVER been a democracy. As for the teaching of Christ…if you don’t work, you don’t eat..comes to mind.. Charity is to be your individual duty NOT the governments…your first responsibility is to take care of your own family – one generation up, two down…then your neighbors (whom Jesus considers ALL Mankind).. Jesus NEVER taught people to sit on their BUTT and have the government ROB Peter to pay Paul
bamamontana
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 4:35pmThank you Scout187, BJRingo for clearing up the whole “democracy” thing. In my opinion, if Bernbrat doesn’t even know the difference between a constitutional representative republic and a European-style democracy, he has no leg to stand on. As usual, socialists make up the history and the facts as they go; otherwise they would have no platform whatsoever.
Report Post »FedUpAlready
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:02pmMedicare is an abysmal failure, and, Medicaid is growing in leaps and bounds, neither of these programs pay to the doctors and hospitals the cost of their services. MedicAid reinburses the states for health services they provide for the low income. However, Medicare doesn’t even come close to paying for services. I got a statement that said Medicare was billed $4,178.00 I owed a deductible of $179.00 and
Report Post »they paid the hospital $508.00. I have a supplemental plan that covers my deductibles, thank God. If anyone didn‘t have any insurance they’d owe the whole amount while the Gov. and insurance companies pay a small pittance of the actual cost. No wonder doctors don’t want to accept MedicAid, and, Medicare patients and for all this I get to pay Medicare $110.00 a month out of my huge $219.00 SS check and $550.00 a month for my Supplemental plan. When the Gov. gets involved everyone gets screwed, but, those who get everything for nothing. I know because I live in Massachusetts and have to have insurance, so welcome to ObamaCare, you‘ll pay huge premiums for everyone else’s coverage.
bernbart
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:16pmYou would be paying much bigger premiums if you did not have Medicare. What were your premiums before you went on Medicare … think about it. Besides Medicare is the most efficiently administered program. Private insurance costs to administer their programs are much higher than Medicare. By 2014 The Affordable Care act is going to require insurance companies to spend 80% of the premiums to pay for health care. Medcaire uses only 6% to administer it’s program.
Other countries are deliver better health care outcomes, at a much lower cost, because everyone pays into the health insurance.
Report Post »COjohngalt
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 4:46pm@bernbart:
Report Post »How much did Medicare have to pay in income tax? Just a guess but I am thinking that the insurance companys that are paying out 80% of premiums in health cost are also having to take a piece (34%) of what is left over and hand it to the IRS. Medicare, not so much. Sure helps when you get to use all of what you take in vs. having to pay a third of it out to the IRS. Wonder how long the government would stay afloat if they had to pay 1/3 of what they take in to someone else…would be preatty ugly considering that they already borrow $0.40 of every dollar that they spend.
ZeitgeistBuster
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 7:24pmBernBart
If other countries paid for their own defense, then they wouldn’t have all of this wonderful extra money to spend on Social Programs.
They would have to be more innovative and would have to take the boot off of their economy and allow it to grow, and then…. yikes, there might be enough prosperity to allow INCENTIVES for social outcomes that were desired.
Imagine: “Hey Insurance companies, wanna compete for a tax write-off? See those uninsurable out there? Work out a deal with health care providers, and provide some basic coverage for them and we will underwrite the enterprize with a tax break”!!!
But no,no,no, that would not give the government dictator powers over the small details of business and individuals. Can’t have the people work out the details and leave us out of the fun and excitement of people living their lives without our direct input. THAT JUST WOULD NOT DO!
So we will have a blood sucking behemoth that will not respond to our pleas that it is killing us. And to think,…. we could have had an incentivized, responsive, competetive private sector going after tax write off candy serving the needs of those few left outside the safety net… wiped our hands and moved on to bringing WORLD PEACE.
Thanks Socialists. World Peace will elude us thanks to your selfishly demanding on having things “your way”!
Report Post »ZeitgeistBuster
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 7:29pmWell maybe not World Peace, but we darn sure would have had enough left over to buy the world a Coke and keep it company!! ha ha ha!
Report Post »jmgair
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:57pmWhy is it that everytime Obama changes his position on things like this they always say “he flip flopped” when in fact what he did was “LIE” to the American people bold faced.
Report Post »NancyBee
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 9:49pmAbsolutely right…..HE LIED
Report Post »bernbart
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:50pmJaycen;
Typical right winger, You have no good or logical arguments so you pull out the old tired,‘communists’ arguement, and now the new right wing argument, “atheists ,and neither has anything to do with the Affordable Care act. Nobody taking your freedom away, this is also an invalid argument. The affordable Care Act offers more choices and more health services, not less. Are yo telling me you have no health insurance?
Most doctors won’t even take patents who do not have health insurance. Hospitals will not take you as patients unless they have health insurance. So people who no insurance show up at emergency rooms and that costs the rest of us a lots of money. I say if they get rid of the mandate then emergency rooms should be allowed to turn away those uninsured, who refuse to buy insurance.
Report Post »Roundup_Logan
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:04pmYou public education and shallowness on the topic are true to form. It’s humurous to read such posts as these. And sense you seem to take exception to christians – I’ll leave you with Proverbs 30:15.
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:10pmBernbart,
I don’t know how typical you are. I don’t care. Communist is not an argument, it’s a label. I labeled you, I didn’t argue the point. It’s obvious to anyone who reads your words that you are a Communist, so there’s no need for supporting points from me.
I asked if you were an atheist, and offered some reasons why I thought you might be. It‘s important to know where you’re coming from, because I don’t think we can have a logic debate if one of us refuses to stick to any logic. Right?
In terms of the rest of your argument about Socialist Health Care – I know doctors who take patients without insurance. I know several. In fact, my chiropractor is seeing my wife and daughters at a loss right now, because we fall outside of his coverage. We have a long history with him, and he told us flat out he didn’t mind cutting us a deal to keep our business. The fact is, you cannot dictate the behavior of all doctors or all patients. You can‘t know what they will or won’t do. Only the individuals can know that.
More importantly, it’s none of your business and none of mine, unless I happen to be dealing with a specific doctor. Stay out of my business, Bernbart. I don’t want to be involved in yours. Why do you insist on poking your nose into mine?
Report Post »bharris0
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:14pmMore and more doctors are refusing insurance and operate on a cash basis as it saves EVERYONE money.
I never expect liberals to know the facts and you are no exception.
Report Post »Thevoice
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:33pmbernbart….Gee have any of you “New age progressive communists” In case you didn’t get the memo a “New age progressive communist” like yourself believes in the government giving you the right to job, housing, health care , schooling, retirement,food,then believes strictly in the total control and regulation of the state..as in the EPA, USDA,FDA, Then the government using these and other government agencies to control what and whom commerce is done with and what commerce is done, and what goods and services are available to consume. Today the “New age progressive communist”Such as yourself wants this government control and Czar and elite control of our society. There is no middle ground in a nations founded and formed on individual liberty and freedom. Also the “New age progressive communist” is desperately trying to enact this communism without the blood on their hands of a Mao, or Stalin…So now getting back to health care…Have you ever given thought to what the cost or growth and efficiency of medicine would have been today without the government intervention. You “New age progressive communist” never, ever want to give the free market place the freedom to do what it does best create goods and services and promote prosperity for the nation…
Report Post »hstowell
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 5:51pmBernbart, your Messiah Obama is a commie and he’s counting on lemmings like you to push his agenda forward. He’s hoping that by the time you wake up government will be in complete control and his idea of a “social justice” society will have been established.
Report Post »USAMEDIC3008
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:43pmIf the health care stands it will signal the END of theREPUBLIC
Report Post »The constition will be null & void
All power left to the states will go to the Dicktater FEDS,And all rights with it.
Being NO disrespect to Flag or what it stands for,and with my time in Uniform
Defending same.
One US Flag at my house is flying upside down
And will stay that way untill the progressives COMMIES are nolonger a threat
to our Nation.I need your help
Starting on wed.I would like to see others showing support for the Country .and a sign to
the commies
OVER MY DEAD BODY.
I WOULD LIKE ALL WHO HAVE AND ARE IN UNIFORM TO STOP AND THINK……
I could never again put that uniform for this adm.
but for My Country My Government (WE THE PEOPLE) My oath still STANDS
Lucy Larue
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 3:17pmMerci. It is a good idea. I have already hung a small flag in my front window…,upside down, until President Dunham and his Progressive ilk are flushed from government.
Vox Populi Vox Dei! We are awake!
Report Post »USAMEDIC3008
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 3:30pmI Love Lucy…
Report Post »Lucy Larue
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 4:49pmUSAMEDIC3008,
Merci and HOOAH!
Report Post »mcsledge
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:35pmThe greatest threat to Americans resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
Report Post »llotus
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:32pmWas the idea of funeral and burrial insurance slipped out today? Mandated funeral and burrial insurance. If that were so where would it stop? Lotus.
Report Post »bernbart
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:55pmThe greatest threat to our Democracy are the fringe Christian right and their libertarian Tea party allies.
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:13pm@Bernbart
You’re finally right! I am a threat to your “democracy”. People like me (Tea Partiers) believe in the power of the Republic. Direct democracy has been a dismal failure everywhere it’s been tried. The founders knew this, because they studied history ferociously.
You fail to understand it. I doubt you care. Democracy is mob rule. Republicanism helps preserve freedom, because it slows down change.
Report Post »Half
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:25pmLook at this to understand their plan:
http://mises.org/daily/5955/The-Seven-Rules-of-Bureaucracy
Report Post »jmgair
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:02pmThank you HALF, this explains everything anyone needs to know about this administration in 7 steps that are easily attached to their approach to promote their agenda.
Report Post »bernbart
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:20pmRomeeycare in MA is working quit well. Let’s not forget the affordable Care act was negotiated and passed in a bipartisan vote in Congress. Rove’s Crossroads is out to destroy Medicare via this SC ruling and protect only the coroporate interests who donate money to his political apparatus. The majority support Health Care Reform. Of those who oppose it are liberals who thought it did not go far enough, and include a pubic option. Of those who oppose it most do not even understand what is included in the bill, and the oppositon has used nothing but lies to shore up support.
If the SC rules against the federal mandate for Health reform will not over turn the entire law, only the mandate which would eventually reduce premium costs for all. Many states are already in the process of setting up their health insurance exchanges. If the federal mandate is over turned many state are ready to pass a mandate at the state level. In those states which do not participate those who buy insurance will continue to pay higher premiums.
Just do not get why anyone would not want to have health insurance. It seems pretty irresponsible not to have health insurance.
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:29pmI just don’t understand why people like you want to dictate to everyone else how to live their life. Like it’s any business of yours what I do with my money, or with whom, or when, or WHY!
Bernbart, you are a Communist. Your entire first two paragraphs of your comment assume you know why people are doing what they do. You can’t possibly know any of that, but you assume you do. You think you know more than everyone around you. Are you an atheist? I’m asking, because I can only conceive of an atheist thinking he knows what’s in the hearts and minds of everyone around him.
In my world, only God can know that, and you’re no God. Just another busy-body jerk who wants to push everyone else around. What’s the matter? Don‘t feel like you’re in control of your own life, so you try to control everyone else? Hate freedom much? No…I’m sure you love freedom, so long as it’s your own.
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:35pmbernbart
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:20pm
Romeeycare in MA is working quit well.
============================
It ought to……..since the federal government is pick up nearly 2/3 of the cost:
——————————-
“But first, it must be noted that Romneycare’s health insurance coverage gains are not all that impressive. Before Romneycare became law, already only 6.4 percent of Massachusetts residents did not have health insurance. By 2010 Romneycare drove the number down to 1.9 percent. That’s just a 4.5 percent gain. And nearly 80 percent of those who gained coverage did so through taxpayer funded government programs.
And those government programs are proving far more expensive than projected. Last year the program cost $2.12 billion, but Massachusetts only ended up picking up 18 percent of the tab. Thanks to waivers, special deals with the federal government, and stimulus dollars, the federal government picked up another 64 percent of the costs while private health insurance consumers picked up the rest of the tab (through higher premiums and co-pays passed on by hospitals and insurers). Looking ahead to next year, the state is expected to be almost $200 million short of paying for the program. Overall, total state health care spending has grown from 30 percent of the budget in 2006 to 40 percent today. The national average is 25 percent.”
Report Post »http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/beltway-confidential/2011/06/romneycare-has-not-%E2%80%9Cworke
oldguy49
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:35pmjaycen……….amen
Report Post »Roundup_Logan
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:35pmI dare ask do you have:
Funeral Insurance
Disability Insurance
Life Insurance
Home Owners Insurance
Auto Insurance
Flood Insurance
Long term care Insurance
I‘m sure there’s a lot of other insurance out there that would be cheaper if everyone was forced to buy it. I don’t carry health insurance, but i don’t get treated at the emergency room either. I pay cash at the doctor every time I go. I know lots of other folks who do the same thing. So to lump everyone together as deadbeats who don’t have health insurance is a false argument to begin wit. You’ve been brainwashed by the media into your line of thinking. It’s because of Medicare and Medicaide and the government regulations already in place which have driven the cost sky high. I actually get a rather large discount by paying cash at the doctors office and I make them justify each and every test they want to run. Those that have insurance don‘t really care because like any good democrate they’re spending other peoples money – in this case the insurance companies money.
Report Post »oldguy49
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:36pmthat was a good amen jaysen
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:48pmLOL
I understand OldGuy49. Sorry to chew you out over Term Limits yesterday.
I have been guilty of the Progressive mindset, myself in the past. It’s easy to slip into the pattern that “everyone ought to…” The problem is, no matter how awesome I am I’m still in no position to tell everyone else what they “ought to do”.
Freedom must be our default mode of operation. On every subject, we must consider “does this make my neighbor more free or less free?” We must think of our neighbor’s freedom, not our own. Only when our neighbor’s freedom starts to impinge on ours does their freedom end.
Remember, if it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg, it’s not my business.
Report Post »antiprogressive
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:53pmThe fact that MY money pays for YOUR insurance is the whole problem for me.
If EVERYONE – poor included – had to pay the same rate, I would feel MUCH better about it,
although I still don’t like the gvmt FORCING me to do/buy anything.
How about for every dollar WE spend on YOUR healthcare, we deduct a dollar from your
unemployment/welfare/food stamp/WIC/etc freeloading AZZ?
I’m TIRED of supporting employable BUMS.
I’d even give a pass to truely indigent/incapable people.
Report Post »But if they ever get caught walking/lifting/using their hands, I’d lock
them up for life – or worse.
Faking illness/injury is a lot of what has risen the price for the REST of us.
Jaycen
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:00pm@antiprogressive
I used to take your position on the “truely indigent”, but the fact is, I know too many people who are poor.
I know too many poor people who:
*ate themselves into obesity and diabetes, even years after being warned by their doctor these people won’t change their lifestyle.
*used drugs to ignore reality, then complained they were fired for not showing up to work.
*drank alcohol and smashed up a car, only to have mommy and daddy pay for their mistake. Then watched them do it again.
Of all the very poor people I know, not a single one is poor “through no fault of his own”. I even have an in-law who lost his job. I offered to get him a job where I worked, but it was $10K less a year than he made before, and he scoffed at me. This was after 8 months on unemployment and complaining that he was about to run out. This was from a 50 year old man.
You think there are “millions of poor Americans” who desperately need your help? For the most part, that’s simply not true. And in the rare case when it is true, then get off your butt and help someone. Collect food, run a fundraiser. My wife is setting one up now to help out her aunt who had brain cancer. Other than the time investment, it’s not that hard to do, and people are very generous.
The government can’t do it as effectively as individuals. Collectivism is a collective FAIL.
Report Post »VRW Conspirator
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 2:25pmBernbart…
Romneycare is working well?? Really? Did you know that Romneycare relies HEAVILY on Federal funding? That is right, without it, the costs would skyrocket. The bill offsets that cost to citizens of MA by reallocating funding for the state Medicaid program (given to them by the Feds) into the insurance exchange. And there are still quite a few MA citizens that do not have insurance, why? They CHOOSE not to and the small fine isn’t worth paying the thousands insurance would cost them.
OH, and lets not forget.. STATES are Sovereign and CAN do this…the Federal government CAN’T!! the 10th Amendment says so!!
Next…88% of the US had insurance BEFORE Obamacare….of the supposed 43 million without, 1/3 were illegals so they don‘t deserve to have taxpayer paid for insurance since they DON’T pay taxes for the most part and are here ILLEGALLY. Another 1/3 can afford insurance and have it offered through their employer they just CHOOSE not to get it..mainly because they are single and in good health and see no reason to pay about 6-8000 a year for something, it is easier just to pay out of pocket.
Report Post »As for that last 1/3, about 12-15 million people…most of those ALREADY qualify for Medicare or Medicaid or some other form of subsidized insurance and just have not applied or don’t know they could apply.
So we are spending 1.4 Trillion now to insure 15 million people at most.. Wow…90K per person for something that costs 6-8000.. 12 times MORE!! IDIO
Brooke Lorren
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 3:56pmI don’t know… I’m poor… temporarily.
We used to make the equivalent of six figures when I was in the military. When I got out of the military, my husband ended up taking a huge pay cut from what he was making before I got into the military because he couldn’t work in his profession overseas and he lost years of experience.
We’ve been spending the last 10 years trying to get back to a decent income. We were starting to do pretty well… my husband started college and had a decent paying job, and we were quite comfortable. Then he lost 4 jobs in 2007… every time he would get hired, the company would go out of business or make drastic cutbacks 2 months later.
So now both my husband and I have started our own businesses. My husband is in law school. I homeschool my kids, so I save the government about $10,000 a year by not using the public school system. Yet, we make below the poverty level, so we are technically “poor” by definition.
I average about one alcoholic drink a year, have never smoked or did any drugs (although I was a caffeine addict, but am no longer). I don’t plan on remaining poor, but I happen to be here, probably until my husband gets out of law school. I was also poor (temporarily) when I got out of high school.
People can be poor temporarily without doing anything wrong.
Report Post »BillnGA
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 8:14pmYou don’t know your arse from first base! Democraps only pushed Bummercare!!
Report Post »antiprogressive
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 8:53pmJaycen – rock on…
Brooke- you sound like someone TEMPORARILY in need of help. I can appreciate that. Especially in this obamanation of an economy.
I could be wrong but wouldn’t you and your husband HAVE insurance – being vets?
Anyone who puts their life out there for us should.
But I also remember Obama saying back 3 years ago when campaigning that vets were all “volunteers” and therefore deserve to PAY for their own insurance.
His intent was to show his hatred for the military in general to a crowd of worshippers…
Damned if I can find a video of it but I know what I heard. I was shocked.
A lot like his 57 state tour…
Temporary assistance SHOULD be available to anyone down on their luck. Obamacare is not THAT.
Much like the unemployed who REFUSE jobs because they can get toooo much for NOT working, it is a plan for permanent dependance.
MAKE people dependant, they will do anything you say…
Bernbart – I’d love to hear your thoughts on Greece.
poor citizens – no more massive gvmt perks for ALL.
And WE are further in debt than THEY are.
The only difference is we can PRINT more money, but it deflates the value therefore “necessarily” making prices skyrocket on EVERYTHING.
But again, that puts more companies out of work and makes more people dependant on the Gvmt,
SOME folks in Congress LIKE it that way…
Good luck Brooke…
Report Post »sajack
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 9:48pmBernbart,
First off, it was not passed with a bipartisan vote. Not one Republican in the House or Senate voted for the bill.
Report Post »Roundup_Logan
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:15pmAnyone who has ever read t/he constitution and all the state arguments during its ratification along with the Federalist/Anti-Federalist papers know whether or not this law holds water as to its constitutionality. But those that have a limited education and get their news from the media line up waiting for their handouts from the federal government. There is a super majority of voters now in this country that have been so dumbed down by the education system I find it hard to believe they could survive without the federal government.
Report Post »bernbart
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:35pmI’d say those who have been dumbed down the most are those right wing Christians who are home schooled, and those who watch FOX.
The Anti government libertarians want to destroy all government programs and thus our Democracy.
Don;tyou depend on government for defense, police, fire departments, roads bridges, sewers, schools.
Why not the mos basic need in life health care.
Of course the affordable care Act did not create any government run insurance, and consumer now have more health choices, more care, not less.
Report Post »Roundup_Logan
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:45pm@bernbart – According to our constitution the federal government is suppose to provide national defense. Police, fire, and other services are not provided by the federal government because they’re not in our constitution. Roads are provided for in the cconstitution – but healthcare was never mentioned by the founding fathers. Certainly they had doctors back then – but they never put your healthcare as a “right” protected by the constitution. With regards to homeschooling- I’d take that over the current public school system everyday. The greatness of our public school system is reflected by our ranking in the world with math and sciences. Your logic is humurous.
Report Post »Roundup_Logan
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:51pm@bernbart – you’re the prime example of what I was talking about. Your post just afirms what I said as being true. All’s I can do is laugh at the shallowness of your thought process.
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:52pmbernbart
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:35pm
I’d say those who have been dumbed down the most are those right wing Christians who are home schooled, and those who watch FOX.
The Anti government libertarians want to destroy all government programs and thus our Democracy.
Don;tyou depend on government for defense, police, fire departments, roads bridges, sewers, schools.
Why not the mos basic need in life health care.
Of course the affordable care Act did not create any government run insurance, and consumer now have more health choices, more care, not less.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of course you’d say that, Bernbart, because you don‘t really know if it’s true or not, and you don’t care. You’d say anything that advanced your viewpoint, because in your philosophy, you don’t adjust your theory to match the facts, you invent facts to support your theory. In your mind, you can’t possibly be wrong, so when you find yourself wrong, you simply ignore the obvious and make up something about the world around you that casts you as the righteous victim of an unjust world.
The dumbest thing you said was in your first sentence – “right wing Christians”. If you despise the Christians who want to legislate their morality, then you hate “Left-wing Christians”. The right is all about freedom. The left is all about Statism.
Report Post »NILAP
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:55pmNice to know that Mitt Romney and his Romneycare helped nudge Obama to this mandate. I am sure Obama will thank him in the debates. Romney should give serious thought to the suggestions of Steve Forbes on this whole Romneycare business.
Report Post »welovetheUSA
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:23pmIt was a state issue………not a federal government issue.
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:41pm@WELOVETHEUSA
Hey, who cares if it was a “State issue”? On its face, socialized medicine is a bad idea. No Constitutional Conservative (or anyone with an ounce of common sense) would think this is a good idea, so who cares if he implemented Socialism at the State level or the Federal level.
Your argument is a non-starter.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:44pmit’s a government vs the people argument
Report Post »tnarc2
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 11:49pmRomney fans keep saying that Conservatives should support RomneyCare because “it’s a states rights issue”
Report Post »So if a state makes a law that taxpayers have to pay for other people’s abortions, we as Conservatives have to support that? If a state says that heterosexual marriage is now illegal we Conservatives have to support that? Conservatives have to support everything that States do? Is that seriously what you’re saying?
tnarc2
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 11:51pmCan anyone argue that RomneyCare is not redistributive Socialism? It is the very definition of Socialism…and Mitt Romney still defends it.
Report Post »cuinsong
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:48pmThe health care bill was passed even though 75% of the people rejected it!
Report Post »They are supposed to respect our wishes not a socialist agenda.
Even as I post they know we do not want it but they will not relent.
Their could only be one reason for this.
The bill gives them more power over our lives which will allow them to better control us.
The song that best fits this situation is “What’s Wrong With This Song” http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_9134749
But the best song for NObama is
“The Devils Song” http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_10789987
izukiddin
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:44pmWe don’t want to give him any “flexibility” or we’re done.
Report Post »SpankDaMonkey
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:37pm.
”It forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can’t afford it, and you pay a penalty if you don’t.”
In other words Bend over, Spread your legs, & Grab your cheeks and listen for those immortal words, “We’re from the Government and we’re here to Help!”…….
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:42pmYou left out the BSNBC motto…and lean forward.
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:45pmNo, it says man up, stop being a freeloader battening on the taxpayers at the emergency room and contribute something to your own health care.
Report Post »biohazard23
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:48pmBOHICA: bend over, here it comes again
Report Post »USPATRIOT101
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:17pmlloyd, If this were the true reason for the mandate, wheres the outcry about all the illegal aliens freeloading? Barack spews garbage about personal responsibility as he pushes social and economic justice, well, which is it, Personal responsibility or socialism? Pick one ya idiot, you can’t have both!
Report Post »bernbart
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:26pmIf you cannot afford to buy health insurance you can go on Medicaid,or get assistance in buying it. If you are not poor enough to be on Medicaid then you can afford to buy health insurance, and yo do not then you are irresponsible.
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:36pmObamacare is not socialism. You want an example of socialism, consider VA medical care, where facilities are owned by, and doctors work for, the government. Obamacare is something different. Rather than being “a government takeover of health care.” it attempts to expand the coverage provided by private insurance. The question of illegal aliens is a red herring. The 30 million or so people who have neither Medicare, Medicaid or employer-sponsored insurance include rich and poor, legal and illegal, all races and conditions. People like you and me, who are responsibly insured, pay for these people’s care. Under Obamacare, this problem will be alleviated, though not solved.
Report Post »OldVet
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 4:58pmVA Medical care is Not socialism by any means. I am a 26yr Veteran an I don’t get VA Medical care because I was not injured in the service of my country. Veterans who receive injuries were promised and are owed appropriate health compensation.. This is an earned benefit.
Report Post »Socialism is where you simply have to be born to collect a benefit, which is apparently the case with you. Stick to examples that you have experience in , slacker.
Lloyd Drako
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:02amOldVet:
Report Post »Socialism means government ownership of productive or distributive property. Its definition has nothing directly to do with the earned/entitled distinction with regard to government benefits. Wounded veterans do in fact receive care at government facilities, from medical personnel who are government employees. To that extent, and for that limited clientele, the VA is socialist, exactly like the British NHS.
possom
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:37pmDon’t want no obama! Don’t want no obamacare!
Report Post »hi
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:35pmAfter Obama is re-elected, he will have flexibility to do and say what he really wants.
Report Post »SpeckledPup
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:33pmthe gallows at Leavenworth would be too humane for that rabid communist animal obama after what he has done to destroy America across every single category imaginable.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:38pmThey don’t have a gallows. A selected elevator shaft was used with a temporary floor modified with a trap door.
Report Post »MidWestMom
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:45pmPutting him in Leavenworth would inflict cruel and unusual punishment on the other inmates.
Report Post »Stoic one
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:33pmI do not need to read a memo……. the potus‘s 2700 page ’you have to pass it to know what is in it’ fascist piece of legislation is unconstitutional.
Report Post »riseandshine
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:08pmClearly unconstitutional.
Report Post »Puddle Duck
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 9:29pmThat 2700 pages was crammed full full with quotes like this “ to be deemed later”. The estimates for the final page count (if this monstrosity is kept in place) would place it somewhere in the vicinity of 100,000 pages of regulations,rules , legalize ….the entire excorcise is to so confuse, make it so difficult for the private insurance industry to cope with that they will get out of the business altogether thus giving the Feds (and the liberals) what they wanbted from the outset… a single payer system wholly run by the Feds…In other words a true socialist medicine model (that has been a disaster in the UK and anywhere else stupid enough to adopt it).
Report Post »BeingThere
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:30pmSo now we know another behind the scenes traitor that should be tried for treason!!!!
Report Post »MidWestMom
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:39pmYep. The list is long…and getting longer everyday.
Report Post »Mark0331
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:23pm‘…as long as there‘s a hardship exemption’.. say, like, it being Unconstituional? Is that a ‘hardship’ Barry? This guy couldn’t pass an 8th grade civics class, let alone graduate from High School.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:20pmHe had more “flexibility” after that election too.
Report Post »MidWestMom
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 12:42pmIf he get’s any more “flexibility” anyone who is caught not complying with his regime will be flogged to death in the town square.
Report Post »USPATRIOT101
Posted on March 27, 2012 at 1:19pmI swear barack mimicks Chavez’s every move.
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