Faith

Richard Dawkins to Release Kids’ Book About Evolution & the ‘Judeo-Christian Myth’

Famed atheist Richard Dawkins is entering uncharted waters. The infamous, yet culturally influential, non-believer is preparing to release a pro-evolutionary children’s book.

The literary work, entitled, “The Magic of Reality: How We Know What’s Really True,” is focused upon delving into some of the world’s greatest wonders. Dawkins, of course, can’t help but include what he calls ”the Judeo-Christian myth,” as he apparently seeks to pass his atheism on to young readers.

While the book is, indeed, written for youths and adults, alike, Dawkins says that he imagines families reading it together and enjoying his take on the universe’s “truths.” NewScientist’s Andy Coghlan describes the book as follows:

Dawkins has repackaged his passion for atheism – and for the capacity of science to deliver demonstrable truths about nature – in a book designed to appeal to teenagers. [...]

The writing is also masterly, if a little waffly in places. From the strident polemicism of The God Delusion, Dawkins has shifted into “wise grandad” mode. His strategy is laid bare in the list of chapters, a clear “scientific” rewrite of the contents of Genesis. The formula is simple: each chapter addresses a basic question: “Who was the first person?“ or ”When and how did everything begin?” Dawkins then supplies imaginative answers provided by ancient myths from around the world – among them prominent tales from the Bible. Finally, he demolishes these myths by supplying the “real” answers provided by science.

Below, watch Dawkins further discuss this controversial book project on the BBC:

In an interview with The New York Times, Dawkins explains his motivation behind writing, “The Magic of Reality.” “I’ve had perfectly wonderful conversations with Anglican bishops, and I rather suspect if you asked in a candid moment, they’d say they don’t believe in the virgin birth.” He continues: “But for every one of them, four others would tell a child she’ll rot in hell for doubting.”

This, apparently, is the reason why he’s targeting children in his latest literary work. Dawkins claims that he wants to raise basic educational questions for kids, helping them better understand the sun, earthquakes and other natural phenomenon. Apparently, he also told the Times that he’s considered launching his own state-sponsored school, though he says it wouldn’t be a school for atheists.

“I am almost pathologically afraid of indoctrinating children,” he says, claiming that “It would be a ‘Think for Yourself Academy.’” While this may be a genuine sentiment, there are many who will see his new book as an attempt to indoctrinate young minds to believe, early on, that faith and religion are mere figments of the human imagination. How would his school differ in its goals and works?

Atheist Richard Dawkins to Release Childrens Book on Evolution

In an article on The Christian Post, Dawkins’ intentions to do what many would deem “indoctrination” seem evident:

“When children ask ‘where did I come from’ they are quite capable of understanding – and being taught – evolution,” Dawkins penned. “Evolution could be taught in such a way as to make it easier to understand than a myth.”

That is because, he said, “myths leave the child’s questions unanswered, or they raise more questions than they appear to answer. Evolution is a truly satisfying and complete explanation of existence, and I suspect that this thing is something a child can appreciate from an early age.”

It seems he’s focusing upon children simply because they will more easily grasp his theoretical constructs. Instead of fighting against the personal beliefs that have worked their way into adults, Dawkins has an easier time reaching children (who are more willing to believe the information they are being taught).

This, in itself, will inspire controversy. But Dawkins has proven himself little interested in avoiding debate in the past.

(h/t BuzzFeed.com)

Comments (516)

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  • DontTalk2Commies
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:04am

    This idiot is going to speak at my college on Oct. 6th. The campus email sent out to everyone glossed over the fact that he’s an atheist and his book is trying to teach(indoctrinate) kids that God doesn’t exist and other such nonsense. You’d think that he’d be such a proud atheist that he’d want that to be known, but that fact had to be hid apparently.

    Report Post »  
    • InversionTheory
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:22am

      I would suggest it is more likely the school downplaying his lack of faith as opposed to Dr Dawkins himself, though I could be wrong. Most colleges try to avoid controversy…makes the alumni donors nervous.

       
    • beckisnuts.
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:47am

      Evolution is science and science trumps myth every time;

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14947363

       
    • Firebrand
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:51am

      Hermano,
      That is a weak argument. Look up transpons and retroviruses. Also, look up prophage. Additionally, look up homologous recombination and indel mutation. You may also want to brush up on aging and the length of telomeres. You may be asking why we don’t see increases or decreases in chromosome number or genome size, and the answer is we do.

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:54am

      nuts…evolution is nothing more than an atheist fairy tale…nothing in the fossil record to support it, nothing in the lab, no ‘junk dna’ no ‘vestigial organs’

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • last frontier
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:55am

      I thought this guy got on the hale bopp comet?

      Report Post » last frontier  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:56am

      Hey Joe1234,

      I see Beckisnuts has found this thread. Any bets your clone will show up, or did he get busted for that one?

      Heh…heh heh.

      Report Post »  
    • Nick84
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:00am

      To call Richard Dawkins an idiot is completely ridiculous. You have every right to disagree with him, but to insult his intelligence shows a clear lack in yours.

       
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:01am

      LOL I’ve got a couple of clones…its an honor….I love irritating the wackos…

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • HUGGINGMYBABIES
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:01am

      Its a THEORY of evolution not a FACT of evolution. Therein lies the mystery. If we evolved then middle species would still exist would they not? Read The Devil‘s Delusion as well as Dawkin’s God Delusion. It uses science to poke all osrts of holes in Dawkin’s THEORIES.

      Report Post » HUGGINGMYBABIES  
    • beckisnuts.
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:04am

      Scroll halfway down this page (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/could-your-shotgun-soon-be-outlawed/) and then click on the name “beckisnuts” – it will take you to Troll Train’s comment page. Busted yet again old man. First for stealing sugar substitute packages at the earlybird special and now for impersonating others here on this forum. lolol Off you go.

      Report Post »  
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:08am

      @Beck is nuts — if evolution is so cast in concrete then this question I put to you:

      Why is it called the “THEORY of evolution?”

      If it is still called a theory, therefore it is not a proven fact; you have to take it on faith, which is the same basis as belief in the Almighty.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • FoxholeAtheist
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:12am

      Evolution is both a theory and a fact.

      Report Post » FoxholeAtheist  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:13am

      @huggin
      You are correct that there is no Law of Evolution. Why is it so hard then for people to think of evolution as a theory with an open mind? The fact that it is a theory means that it is incomplete. The possibility that it is true is just as valid as the possibility that it isn’t scientifically. Why is it so important to deny the current hypothesis knowing that information is still being gained every day? There have been numerous articles that have come out in the last 2-3 months eluding to a better understanding of the fossil record. The point I‘m trying to make is that you are no more correct in saying that evolution doesn’t exist than a person who says that it does.

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • FoxholeAtheist
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:13am

      This is going to be a wonderful book.

      Report Post » FoxholeAtheist  
    • NES
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:19am

      Dick Dorkins, like Gnome Chimpsky, is a pseudo-intellectual. Speaking as a scientist, it is completely unscientific to use science as a basis for disproving the existence of God. Science develops understanding through making empirical measurements of the natural world. God is supernatural and cannot therefore be measured, quantified, or studied using the scientific method. Science attempts to answer the questions of the “how” part of creation. Religion answers the “Who” part of creation. It’s not even the same argument.

      Many of the great scientists of the past studied nature as a way to better understand the works of God rather than to somehow disprove His existence. For example, Sir Isaac Newton, the Father of Newtonian Mechanics, wrote and published more about religion than he did about science.

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:20am

      It is actually common knowledge that he is an atheist, you don;t need to say the Pope is Catholic. Also, given the various chrisitian idiots assualt on science and evolution, its time for parents to have an option based on facts and science to counter the myths of ID and Creationism.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:21am

      uh yeah to all you who think evolution is a fact, explain why the fossil record shows creation rather than evolution…

      explain why the predictions of evolution are false..such as ‘vestigial organs’ ‘junk dna’ the ‘tree of life’ etc.

      I know you’re going to bring up bacterial resistance to anti-biotics as the crown jewel of evolution…

      Resistance to Antibiotics Is Ancient

      ScienceDaily (Aug. 31, 2011) — Scientists were surprised at how fast bacteria developed resistance to the miracle antibiotic drugs when they were developed less than a century ago. Now scientists at McMaster University have found that resistance has been around for at least 30,000 years.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110831155334.htm

      oops…

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • HUGGINGMYBABIES
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:26am

      So you‘ve read The Devil’s Delusion then? Remeber both sides of an arguement are valid, when supported or discounted with facts.

      Report Post » HUGGINGMYBABIES  
    • gwssacredcause
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:34am

      The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Proverbs 9:10 How wise is this man?

      Report Post »  
    • Gold Coin & Economic News
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:40am

      @Beckisnuts

      Evolution is rife with fraud, infighting, pride, corruption and and outright forgery. The only unified thing that is common about most evolutionists is that they will all be rotting in hell for such a pernicious lie perpetrated on this earth about God’s image bearer.

      Here’s just one example many were all taught in school that turned out to be complete fabrication:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man

      Not convinced? Okay here’s another evolution lie. Human embryo drawings in textbooks even though it is know they were fraudulent:
      http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=9926

      It goes on and on.

      Report Post » Gold Coin & Economic News  
    • woodyb
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:45am

      Beck’sNuts —
      If evolution is science, then why is it called the THEORY of evolution and not the SCIENCE of evolution??????????

      And, if the IS NO GOD, then what, or who, made whatever it is we are supposed to have EVOLVED FROM????????????

      Report Post »  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:47am

      @Joe
      Have you ever read up on AvrPto and the R-genes in tomato? The biological arms race between plants and bacteria? What is it about the DNA in fossils that allow us to build a phylogentic relationship between species that doesn’t trump the phenotypic relationships in your mind?

      To say that every nucleotide base in a genome is needed and used for something is a far stretch of the scientific imagination. I‘m not saying that it isn’t true, because I don’t know. The opposite IS true though, you don’t know for sure either. What is the point of finger bones and structures at the tip of some bird’s wings? Where did they come from? Why are they there? Why does every mammal have a bipolar appendage relationship if segregated along the median plane? These are questions that are still unanswered and that no one knows the answer to.

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • TangoMike79
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:52am

      Actually, it can be proven that “evolution” in the terms of genetic mutations within DNA creates stable phenotypes and adaptations for an organism to adapt/survive in given environments given. However, to take an atheistic stance on the creation of the universe and to discredit intelligent design is absolutely absurd. Here is an example for the atheists out there (I tried to make it simple):

      Proteins are the machinery of life and are needed to couple biochemical reactions to ensure that free energy can be utilized to drive metabolic processes for life to exist. Given that very generalized information let’s take a simple prokaryote organism E. coli (bacterial) and explore the protein folding pattern of a protein composed of 100 Amino Acid (AA) which would equate to a DNA sequence of at least 300 base pairs.

      This protein’s 100 AA can adopt 10 conformation prior to each and every AA “Randomly” & “Chaotically” (I’m referring to chaos theory in which everything arises out of chaos and disorder) adopting the conformations needed for the protein to fold into a functional protein needed for the bacteria’s survival.

      That is 10^(100) different probable conformations. If each of these conformations can exist at 10^(-13) seconds it would take 10^(87) seconds to adopt the proteins AA’s functional conformation allowing secondary and tertiary folding patterns of the protein. That is around 10^(70) times the life of the universe (according to the big bang).

      Report Post » TangoMike79  
    • Cesium
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:52am

      @joe1234 There goes Joe playing his “atheist racist fairy tale” record over and over and over again.. Hey Joe, what happens when you play your record backwards? It goes SATAN SATAN SATAN!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

      It’s telling to NOT ONCE see you rail against so many of your fellow christians on the Blaze that are overtly racist in many articles when race seems to be your biggest concern in morality. You obviously don’t care about racism. It is your ad hoc argument to rail against evolution. I would bet the bucks you would never date outside your own race.

      Report Post »  
    • TangoMike79
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:53am

      Therefore, given 1 protein in a very “simple” organism gives rise to the conclusion that protein folding CANNOT be random and arise from chaotic events. This is called the Levinthal’s Paradox…

      Now, if you compare what I’ve explained to ultra-complex eukaryotic organisms like us humans (who have thousands upon thousands of proteins needed for survival) on the time line based on Darwinian Evolution I cannot reasonably see how it is possible to not believe in intelligent design.

      It takes just as much to believe as it does to not believe.

      Report Post » TangoMike79  
    • OhForGodsSake
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:53am

      @Snowleopard

      “Why is it called the “THEORY of evolution?”

      It is also called the THEORY of gravity.

      Lay people often misinterpret the language used by scientists. And for that reason, they sometimes draw the wrong conclusions as to what the scientific terms mean.

      A theory is what one or more hypotheses become once they have been verified and accepted to be true. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. Unfortunately, even some scientists often use the term “theory” in a more colloquial sense, when they really mean to say “hypothesis.” That makes its true meaning in science even more confusing to the general public.

      Report Post »  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:55am

      @tango
      Levinthal’s paradox…nice.

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • Cesium
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:57am

      @firebrand… joe is a broken record… I wish there was nothing vestigial as I am not looking forward to having my impacted wisdom teeth removed next week. Luckily my 3rd nipple will not be removed…and luckily woman that have third nipples don’t lactate from them, that would be gross.
      http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tzMD0KnsBEo/ThKJQ37vzGI/AAAAAAAAARM/JwI_sWt9B2I/s1600/wisdom+tooth+fail.jpg

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 12:03pm

      @Joe
      Have you ever read up on AvrPto and the R-genes in tomato? no why don’t you enlighten me?

      The biological arms race between plants and bacteria? yeah so?

      What is it about the DNA in fossils that allow us to build a phylogentic relationship between species that doesn’t trump the phenotypic relationships in your mind? it does trump phenotypic relationships…so?

      “To say that every nucleotide base in a genome is needed and used for something is a far stretch of the scientific imagination.” really??

      “I think this will come to be a classic story of orthodoxy derailing objective analysis of the facts, in this case for a quarter of a century,” Mattick says. “The failure to recognize the full implications of this-particularly the possibility that the intervening noncoding sequences may be transmitting parallel information in the form of RNA molecules-may well go down as one of the biggest mistakes in the history of molecular biology.”
      The article summarizes John Mattick’s view with these striking words: “The failure to recognize the importance of introns ‘may well go down as one of the biggest mistakes in the history of molecular biology.’” Yet that is what Dr. Falk does in Coming to Peace with Science by repeatedly calling introns “gibberish.”

      http://www.evolutionnews.org/2009/10/how_the_junk_dna_hypothesis_ha026421.html

      ‘junk dna’ is a darwiniac fantasy.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 12:06pm

      “@joe1234 There goes Joe playing his “atheist racist fairy tale” record over and over and over again..”

      I didn’t mention the racism in this thread yet, but yeah evolution is racist as hell…even the title of your bible is all about race….

      On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life

      so list for us those FAVOURED RACES, why don’t you?

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 12:07pm

      @tango
      The argument for protein folding is a little misguided. The paradox doesn’t support intelligent design, but is a thinking exercise that refutes random sampling during protein folding along the energetic funnel leading to the native state. There have to be other factors that increase the rate of native state formation.

      These include but are likely not limited to, hydrophobic collapse and the hydrophobic effect, hoffmeister effects, brownian motions, ionic interactions, hydrogen bonding, topological distributions, disulfide bonds, Van der Walls’s interactions, secondary structure rearrangements, chaperone interactions, and yes even some random sampling. Mix that with the fact that some proteins have intrinsic and stable disordered regions and/or use GroEL and GroES to fold and you have a very reasonable explanation why proteins fold up so quickly.

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 12:08pm

      @cesium are you going to threaten me again you piece of trash?

      as far as never dating outside my race….you prove again what a laughable POS you are.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 12:13pm

      @tango Mike79 The paradox you cite to is a thought expirement and an incomplete one at that, further studies have found holes with it, included the proven rapid rate of protein folding. http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2004-12/1103152480.Bc.r.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfinsen%27s_dogma

      In fact, a critique of Levinthal’s paradox is unnecessary: few scientists in the field have ever believed that proteins fold via an exhaustive, random search of their configurational space. The Levinthal paradox simply serves to demonstrate that an intensive, purely random search cannot succeed. Levinthal himself was aware that proteins fold spontaneously and on short timescales, and that a random conformational search is therefore impossible: his original paper discusses the resolution of the paradox. Christian B. Anfinsen’s 1971 Nobel Prize lecture revisits some of the same themes.

      Report Post »  
    • joei234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 12:19pm

      Cesium, you are right about everything. Evolution is true and Blazers are racists.

      Report Post » joei234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 12:23pm

      joei234 I knew one of my evil clone duplicates would come out…

      you wackos sure are desperate…LOL loser….loser……loser….

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Cesium
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 12:25pm

      @tangomike So you think it’s sky wizard magic? You forgot to consider heat-shock proteins in cellular protein folding. Most proteins cannot fold properly(nor very quickly) on their own into the correct conformation without them. Even if small proteins don’t require them there are so many thermodynamic intermediates, picosecond transition states, and nuances in protein folding that occur inside the cell milieu that favors the proper fold. You cannot conclude that protein folding is too complex without ID to direct it..(magically?) As soon as one residue folds on another, that changes the properties of the adjacent and distal thermodynamic properties and their interactions with other cell molecules. In the realm of detection in vitro, you may see a 1000 fold products occur at the end and they may have have the same energy state and different conformations. This ignores that no one has exactly recapitulated, in vitro, the cellular mileu. Proteins fold properly inside the cell and we know that it is not 100% accurate all the time… Many proteins stochastically are misfolded. Even in the cell IT IS NOT PERFECT. It is adequate for homeostasis. If the folding inside the cell goes even farther than less than perfect you get disease. Why would god make protein folding inside the cell imperfect?

      Report Post »  
    • joei234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 12:48pm

      Cesium, you obviously know what you‘re talking about and that’s why you have more credibility than the fantasy world people here do. You make much more sense than the nutters. I stand corrected.

      Report Post » joei234  
    • joei234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:05pm

      At least Dawkins is all about facts and he sticks to them. How can Beck mock him on the air about what Dawkins believes when Glenn himself is a member of a religion founded by a conman who claimed to have gold plates with angel writing on them? Mormonism is riddled with nonsensical beliefs so much so that it is easy to lampoon and make fun of. How about that Glenn? Do you want to explain about the golden plates and all the other silly crapola you believe too be true when it’s all just made up over the past 100+ years?

      joei234  
    • TangoMike79
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:12pm

      @Firebrand & Encinom:

      Exactly right… The paradox repudiates random & chaotic events leading to protein folding and that is what I am trying to elucidate here, there are perfectly “designed” mechanisms for such complex organization to occur. On a grand scale of things it boils down to the fact that I personally see intelligent design behind it all. Perhaps you don’t, perhaps you do? I just don’t see nor can I comprehend how random & chaotic events could have led to the rise of everything.

      I choose the metaphysical to explain the physically unexplainable and so far that has worked pretty darn well for me in life. I guess my Molecular Cellular Biology, Chemistry, & Medical Course professors/instructors didn’t do a very good job on me, LOL.

      Report Post » TangoMike79  
    • A1955Rosie
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:16pm

      Counter battle this evil that steals our childrens blessings with a simple book that teaches parents/chldren. It can be read at so many times, like right befor driving them to school to discuss, at the table where we ask God’s blessings, bedtime to think about and quiet the little minds.
      It is “Jesus calling: 365 Devotions for Kids” Amazon has this, or put it in your phone. Make it a game to find as many a child is entertained w/our readers.
      http://www.thomasnelson.com/consumer/product_detail.asp?sku=1400316340

      Report Post » A1955Rosie  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:18pm

      Interesting topic.

      You get the libs on there that try to talk way above everyone’s head, talk about protein folding, thermodynamics, and all manner of wiz bang topics. truth be known, they have no clue, and they know that it is all a theory. Thay also know that the Darwin crap given in public schools is all a lie.

      Want to watch them run for the hills? challenge them to a debate with a Christian scientist who can talk there talk. They will not do it. The fear creation, because they are still stabbing in the dark with their various theories.

      They still have no animal or organism in transition. The fossil records do not back up their claims, but show an explosion of life, and then an abrupt stop. They have been caught in numerous lies, where they take a bone or fossil and try to make something that they know is false.

      It takes more faith for all of their theories. We just need enough faith to take the first four words of the Bible “In the beginning God…..”

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • Cesium
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:19pm

      Yea, desperate of not living in a world ruled by myth. Our modern world works because of the properties of actual physical law. But to believers life is always too miraculous to be explained by physics every step of the way. Joe doesn’t even realize that what he accepts as truth in biology now he would have scoffed at 60 years ago as bogus ideas. Go in a time machine and try to explain to a Joe1234 of the past that there‘s a molecule in the nucleus that codes for life and its activity aligns perfectly with mendel’s discovery in support of darwin. That would have been evidence dismissed by joe then because only god makes different species and us unique and not some science magic. Yet,he currently accepts DNA is a code and it segregates in meiosis and determines traits and species, evidence that supports darwin’s original thesis. Joe is another denier of physical law (these people exist since the age of enlightenment). He uses what has not been shown by science at this exact point in time as ammunition for the existence of the god of the bible. To Joe, what hasn’t been proved in the last 150 years is proof that certain theories are not true even if evidence does exist in favor of a theory. If a certain experiment does not yield a supportive result, to Joe the theory TOTALLY fails..even if other experiments and evidence do support the theory.

      Report Post »  
    • TangoMike79
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:21pm

      This will be my last post, I’m done feeding TROLLS for the day…
      @Cesium:

      Yes..

      Of course I believe the “sky wizard” AKA GOD designed and implemented physical processes so that we can exist. I love exploring the mechanisms that were intelligently designed to give rise to life and how to utilize those mechanisms to make beneficial contributions to society.

      I conjecture from your post that you don’t? LOL…

      Report Post » TangoMike79  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:25pm

      The idea that “nothing works until everything works.” The classic example is a mousetrap, which is irreducibly complex in that if one of its several pieces is missing or not in the right place, it will not function as a mousetrap and no mice will be caught. The systems, features, and processes of life are irreducibly complex. What good is a circulatory system without a heart? An eye without a brain to interpret the signals? What good is a half-formed wing? Doesn’t matching male and female reproductive machinery need to exist at the same time, fully-functioning if any reproduction is to take place? Remember, natural selection has no foresight, and works to eliminate anything not providing an immediate benefit.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:26pm

      The Second Law of Thermodynamics refers to the universal tendency for things, on their own, to “mix” with their surrounding environment over time, becoming less ordered and eventually reaching a steady-state. A glass of hot water becomes room temperature, buildings decay into rubble, and the stars will eventually burn out leading to the “heat death” of the universe. However, the evolutionary scenario proposes that over time things, on their own, became more ordered and structured. Somehow the energy of a “Big Bang” structured itself into stars, galaxies, planets, and living things, contrary to the Second Law. It is sometimes said that the energy of the Sun was enough to overcome this tendency and allow for the formation of life on earth. However, application of energy alone is not enough to overcome this tendency; the energy must be channeled by a machine. A human must repair a building to keep it from decaying. Likewise, it is the machinery of photosynthesis which harnesses the energy of the Sun, allowing life to exist, and photosynthesis is itself a complex chemical process. The maturing of an acorn into a tree, or a zygote (the first cell resulting from fertilization) into a mature human being does not violate the Second Law as these processes are guided by the information already present in the acorn or zygote.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • en2deep
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:26pm

      If someone chooses to believe in evolution, so be it, I really do not care. Why are the believers in Darwin so threatened by those who disagree w/them? It‘s almost like you’re trying to shove your beliefs down every ones throat. The same thing they accuse christians of doing. For all atheists: Practice what you preach.

      Report Post » en2deep  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:26pm

      By definition, something must be eternal (as we have “something” today and something cannot come from “nothing”, so there was never a time when there was “nothing”). Either the universe itself is eternal, or something/someone outside of and greater than the universe is eternal. We know that the universe is not eternal, it had a beginning (as evidenced by its expansion). Therefore, God (the something/someone outside of the universe) must exist and must have created the universe. Einstein showed that space and time are related. If there is no space there is no time. Before the universe was created there was no space and therefore no concept of time. This is hard for us to understand as we are space-time creatures, but it allows for God to be an eternal being, completely consistent with scientific laws. The question “who created God” is therefore an improper/invalid question, as it is a time-based question (concerning the point in time at which God came into existence) but God exists outside of time as the un-caused first cause.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:28pm

      The fine-tuning of the physical constants that control the physics of the universe – the settings of the basic forces (strong nuclear force constant, weak nuclear force constant, gravitational force constant, and electromagnetic force constant) are on a knife’s edge. A minor change in these or any of dozens of other universal parameters would make life impossible.
      The “multiverse” idea that there may be many universes and ours “just happened” to have these proper values is outside of science and could never be proven. Even then we would have to ask “what was the cause of all these universes?”

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:30pm

      @TangoMike 79…Yep, you professors failed you if you believe the nonsense of Intelligent Design.

      @RangerDan…a book of myths and fables is not the foundation of science, God is not always the answer. 2+2=4, not God.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:30pm

      “Go in a time machine and try to explain to a Joe1234 of the past that there‘s a molecule in the nucleus that codes for life and its activity aligns perfectly with mendel’s discovery in support of darwin”

      mendel didn’t have anyting to do with darwin…and evolution didn’t have anything to do with genetics until the 1930s when people like Mayer included genetics in evolution to come up with the synthesis…evolution needed some REAL science to glom onto. lying for darwin, its what you do…

      oh and explain, in detail, how the DNA CODE evolved…since CODES are created by intelligence.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Cesium
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:31pm

      @tango mike… again, you have failed to consider a huge number of factors involved in protein folding. So then, the easy answer is ID. You are a perfect example of how a religious mind works… You want to put the work to rest with the simple answer and kick back. Peer further into this topic and make sure you understand the difference between protein folding experiments that take place in vitro (outside the cell/body) and the considerations for protein folding inside an actual cell. Remember protein folding inside a cell is not 100% perfect either as I said in previous comment.

      Report Post »  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:31pm

      This law of entropy is, by any measure, one of the most universal, bestproved laws of nature. It applies not only in physical and chemical systems, but also in biological and geological systems — in fact, in all systems, without exception.

      No exception to the second law of thermodynamics has ever been found — not even a tiny one. Like conservation of energy (the “first law”), the existence of a law so precise and so independent of details of models must have a logical foundation that is independent of the fact that matter is composed of interacting particles.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:31pm

      @‘cesium I noticed you didn’t have the guts to list the ‘favoured races’ your racist bloody god darwin was talking about…

      oh and evolution is useless to real science..

      In 1942, Nobel Laureate Ernst Chain wrote that his discovery of penicillin (with Howard Florey and Alexander Fleming) and the development of bacterial resistance to that antibiotic owed nothing to Darwin‘s and Alfred Russel Wallace’s evolutionary theories.
      The same can be said about a variety of other 20th-century findings: the discovery of the structure of the double helix; the characterization of the ribosome; the mapping of genomes; research on medications and drug reactions; improvements in food production and sanitation; new surgeries; and other developments.
      Additionally, I have queried biologists working in areas where one might have thought the Darwinian paradigm could guide research, such as the emergence of resistance to antibiotics and pesticides. Here, as elsewhere, I learned that evolutionary theory provides no guidance when it comes to choosing the experimental designs. Rather, after the breakthrough discoveries, it is brought in as a narrative gloss.
      http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/23/evolution-creation-debate-biology-opinions-contributors_darwin.html

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:33pm

      In no way does the idea of particles-to-people evolution meet the long-accepted criteria of a scientific theory. There are no such evolutionary transitions that have ever been observed in the fossil record of the past; and the universal law of entropy seems to make it impossible on any significant scale.

      Evolutionists claim that evolution is a scientific fact, but they almost always lose scientific debates with creationist scientists. Accordingly, most evolutionists now decline opportunities for scientific debates, preferring instead to make unilateral attacks on creationists.

      Scientists should refuse formal debates because they do more harm than good, but scientists still need to counter the creationist message.
      The question is, just why do they need to counter the creationist message? Why are they so adamantly committed to anti-creationism?

      The fact is that evolutionists believe in evolution because they want to. It is their desire at all costs to explain the origin of everything without a Creator. Evolutionism is thus intrinsically an atheistic religion. Some may prefer to call it humanism, and “new age” evolutionists place it in the context of some form of pantheism, but they all amount to the same thing. Whether atheism or humanism (or even pantheism), the purpose is to eliminate a personal God from any active role in the origin of the universe and all its components, including man

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:37pm

      God created Darwin. Imagine that.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • RLTW
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:45pm

      Cesium
      Have you ever heard the sayings “history teaches us nothing” or “history repeats itself”? conservatives/religious people attempt to use history as a measure to prepare for future events and situations, so in many ways history is science and myth is man’s history.

      Based on your beliefs history teaches you nothing.

      Report Post »  
    • Cesium
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:47pm

      @mike sorry I missed your last response… No, I don’t claim to know ID is behind life. But, I can certainly see why one would conclude that. My position is that it may or may not be true. Take a look at Plato’s “Allegory of the Cave.” Our reality and perception suggest an IDr, but our scientific results suggest it need not necessarily be true either. Neither has been proven, but people will satisfy themselves with whatever they think should be reality. Our minds assume complexity in nature is designed because we design complex things like wheels with axles and then differential transmissions. Anything more complex must be therefore be created by ID, but does that make it true? Joe knows.. I don’t, I am not that arrogant or righteous to claim knowledge on that which there is really isn’t. Understanding how vastly complex cell activity is (at this point) and all the nuances of newly discovered molecules interacting with each other in the ultimate thermodynamic butterfly effect makes it easy for me to see how evolution works even without a designer.

      Report Post »  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:01pm

      @ranger
      Your questions on what good is X without Y actually support adaptive change. In every case where a mutation would occur to prevent formation of a heart, there would be no organism. In every case where there was no brain, sperm, or mammalian genitalia due to some mutation, genes couldn’t be passed from mutant to offspring. With that being said. Selective pressure is only a small part of the theory of evolution. I don’t know of any scientist that would argue that it is the only means for adaptive change.

      The scientific community as a whole agrees that there are still questions to be answered. That doesn‘t and shouldn’t mean that the answers will or won’t be found. There’s an old saying, “Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.” With intelligent design, how do you prove it empirically? What is the test? What are the controls? Do you consider it a theory of intelligent design? If so, what is the hypothesis?

      My point is that the vast majority evolutionary biologist and molecular biologist seek to explain the variability between species, not their origin. The fact that so much DNA is similar leads many to believe that they must share common ancestors. If DNA encodes proteins and the same proteins are seen used across several species, then those species have the same DNA sequence. How did that happen? That’s the basic question they ask. Not, “How did life begin?”.

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:09pm

      “I don’t, I am not that arrogant or righteous to claim knowledge on that which there is really isn’t. Understanding how vastly complex cell activity is (at this point) and all the nuances of newly discovered molecules interacting with each other in the ultimate thermodynamic butterfly effect makes it easy for me to see how evolution works even without a designer.”

      you really don’t read what you write do you now? LOL you’re not arrogant enough to claim knowledge…but it HAD TO EVOLVE!!

      what a clown.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:14pm

      “The scientific community as a whole agrees that there are still questions to be answered. ”

      uh yeah right…and the answer is ALWAYS evolution.

      “Selective pressure is only a small part of the theory of evolution. I don’t know of any scientist that would argue that it is the only means for adaptive change. ”

      ok explain the tuatara, which has the fastest rate of molecular evolution ever found, and is still a living dinosaur.

      “With intelligent design, how do you prove it empirically? What is the test? ” its rather simple, if you can evolve it, then its not ID…but so far you’ve had no luck in evolving much have you now?

      why do you think miller runs around claiming he has disproven irreducable complexity if it wasn’t testable science? hmmm?

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:16pm

      “How did that happen? That’s the basic question they ask. Not, “How did life begin?”.”

      really?

      Next to life itself, the origin of complex cells is one of the most fundamental, and intractable, problems in evolutionary biology. Progress in this area relies heavily on an understanding of the relationships between present-day organisms, yet despite tremendous advances over the last half-century scientists remain firmly divided on how to best classify cellular life.

      2. John M. Archibald, “The Eocyte Hypothesis and the Origin of Eukaryotic Cells,” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA, Published online before print December 17, 2008, doi: 10.1073/pnas.0811118106.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • TangoMike79
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:18pm

      This will be my last post I promise, I can’t resist to feed the TROLL one more time…
      @Cesium:

      I do not have the time or the desire to list and describe all of the H bonding, electrostatic, hydrophilic, hydrophobic, AA residue modifications, chaperone proteins, etcetera in ensuring that the final functioning protein folding pattern is achieved. BTW, you started to go off on a tangent about protein folding in the cell and how I’m not considering it. It was never my purpose to consider everything involved in protein folding (vitro or vivo).

      Since it appears that you’re incapable of exercising critical thinking skills and analyzing earlier posts this is the main point I was attempting to convey toward the agnostic train of thought when compared to the Levinthal Paradox:

      The paradox repudiates random & chaotic events leading to protein folding and that is what I am trying to elucidate here, there are perfectly “designed” mechanisms for such complex organization to occur. On a grand scale of things it boils down to the fact that I personally see intelligent design behind it all. Perhaps you don’t, perhaps you do? I just don’t see nor can I comprehend how random & chaotic events could have led to the rise of everything.

      I choose the metaphysical to explain the physically unexplainable and so far that has worked pretty darn well for me in life. I guess my Molecular Cellular Biology, Chemistry, & Medical Course professors/instructors didn’t do a very goo

      Report Post » TangoMike79  
    • loriann12
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:24pm

      I think we should ask Pelosi if it’s a theory of evolution or fact……wasn’t she there?

      Report Post »  
    • loriann12
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:27pm

      Let me get this straight, evolution means that something evolved from something else to become more perfect and able to live better. I believe there is a bit of evolving, as in some species separated on islands, could evolve a bit and even to the point that they can’t breed anymore. But as far as an amoeba becoming a tree? If men evolved from apes, why do we still have apes?

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:28pm

      (cesium) “Since it appears that you’re incapable of exercising critical thinking skills and analyzing earlier posts ”

      yeah quite a few others have noticed that too….

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • jkendal
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:34pm

      “Speaking as a scientist, it is completely unscientific to use science as a basis for disproving the existence of God. Science develops understanding through making empirical measurements of the natural world.”

      In other words, science is nothing more than the sum of all human observations. And notice how it has changed over the centuries as humans’ observations have changed (the world used to be flat – so said those who were once considered scientists). That‘s why when I hear people say science is based on fact and religion isn’t (nevermind that nothing about evolution has ever been directly observed – it’s all been theorized, which is why it’s called a THEORY), they’re just confirming their own lack of intelligence. The idea that just because no human ever observed something therefore it never happened is ludicrous. And forget about all the human observations of God‘s direct revelation that were written down in a book called the Holy Bible because to the atheist that couldn’t possibly be true – it was just written by a bunch of stupid religious zealots in the 1500‘s when at the same time they reject SCIENTIFIC evidence that points to some of the Bible’s “stories” actually happening at the time the Bible says they did.

      But you’re never going to convince those that “believe” science is somehow more than just the sum of all human observation (how is that different than faith?) – they’ve already made up their minds, scientific evidence to the contrary

      Report Post »  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:35pm

      @joe
      I would argue to you that if you evolve it, it could still be intelligent design. The discovery of one doesn’t negate the other. This is a point I’ve tried to make to you ad nauseum. The problem is that religious believers (both fundamentalists and atheists) for some reason want to denigrate the act of science as it pertains to the research of evolution. As if the study of evolution is trying to disprove the existence of a deity. All it does is try to find an explanation as to why there are both similarities and variances within species using the scientific method. I still for the life of me can‘t understand how you don’t get that.

      To put it simply. The theory of evolution does not try to disprove the existence of G-d. In the same way, ID doesn’t negate the possibility for adaptive change. We were created in G-d’s image, but nowhere in the bible does it state that we had to stay that way.

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • joei234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:45pm

      Tangodike69 and Rangerp, feel free to wallow in your ignorance and delusions. The rest of civilization will continue to move forward without you and others like you. Cesium is correct, you two goofs are wrong.

      Report Post » joei234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:49pm

      “would argue to you that if you evolve it, it could still be intelligent design. ”

      I doubt anyone would think Lenski’s experiments for example, are an example of intelligent design.

      “The theory of evolution does not try to disprove the existence of G-d” really???

      Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent.”

      Provine, William B. [Professor of Biological Sciences, Cornell University], “, “Evolution: Free will and punishment and meaning in life”, Abstract of Will Provine’s 1998 Darwin Day Keynote Address.

      why don’t you write Provine and tell him that? same for dawkins, PZ myers, etc…..

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:50pm

      @joei234 or should I say cesium? you libs really aren’t nearly as clever as you think you are LOL

      can you praise your alter-ego anymore? nauseating…LOL

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • encinom
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:51pm

      @Rangerdan,

      Maybe you should credit your sources:

      According to Henry Morris, Ph.D. “Evolutionists claim that evolution is a scientific fact, but they almost always lose scientific debates with creationist scientists. Accordingly, most evolutionists now decline opportunities for scientific debates, preferring instead to make unilateral attacks on creationists.”
      http://www.icr.org/article/455/

      I mean the Creationist created journal is not going to be biased, by the founder of said jounral (who happens to be an engineer and with no background in biology.

      Again Ranger Dan, you need facts, which you lack. You have nothing but the writing of a loon that beleives the earth is 6,000 years old.

      Report Post »  
    • docvet
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 3:05pm

      Some of you are still beating the THEORY of evolution drum, huh? And, yes, there is no law of evolution, that’s true. There was a time that there was a theory that the earth is round, not flat. Well, it is round. And we still don’t have a “law of the earth is round”. I guess I am just going to have to accept the validity of tons of fossils, molecular biology that is leading to medical cures and the considerable evidence that the earth is round over the unprovable theory that the earth is 6000 years old. If I have a choice to treating a strep throat with prayer or penicillin, I will take the penicillin every time.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 3:19pm

      “guess I am just going to have to accept the validity of tons of fossils,”

      then you wouldn’t believe in evolution…the fossil record shows creation, not evolution.

      “If I have a choice to treating a strep throat with prayer or penicillin, I will take the penicillin every time.”

      which has nothing to do with evolution….LOL

      from a previous post of mine…

      In 1942, Nobel Laureate Ernst Chain wrote that his discovery of penicillin (with Howard Florey and Alexander Fleming) and the development of bacterial resistance to that antibiotic owed nothing to Darwin‘s and Alfred Russel Wallace’s evolutionary theories.
      The same can be said about a variety of other 20th-century findings: the discovery of the structure of the double helix; the characterization of the ribosome; the mapping of genomes; research on medications and drug reactions; improvements in food production and sanitation; new surgeries; and other developments.

      I would say get a clue, but you darwiniacs are remarkably dense…

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 3:29pm

      @joe
      Yes. Really. Those men you quote are using evolution as a basis to disprove the existence of G-d. This is like the gun debate. Guns don‘t kill people just like pencils don’t misspell words. The same goes for evolution. I know we have had this conversation before. Don’t blame the tried, true, and noble scientific endeavor and questioning with the interpretation and application of the endeavor for personal gain.
      As a comparable example, the Romans, Spanish, and Germans all used religion as a justification for their role in persecution of one group or another. Does that make the Bible bad? Does that mean that the study of scripture is bad? No, it means that anyone can misuse knowledge as a means to justify their opinion. The men you quote are fervent atheists, and as such, they will use any scientific fact they can to try and bolster or buttress their view point. I know someone else that does the same thing for the opposite side…

      The problem is that because of the gross misuse of the facts to support opinion, the scientific endeavor of researching evolution suffers. What I’m asking is, just because you don’t want to believe that it could exist, does that mean we shouldn’t study it? The funny thing is that you believe the science that negates it, but not the science that supports it. Obviously you think that the negating science is better. Why?

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • scarebear83
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 3:31pm

      he (Dawkins) said, “myths leave the child’s questions unanswered, or they raise more questions than they appear to answer. Evolution is a truly satisfying and complete explanation of existence…”

      How many times have I heard evolutionists tell me that evolution doesn’t explain how life got here and now Dawkins is saying it explains existence? So which is it? Unfortunately abiogenesis and evolution cannot be separated no matter how much an evolutionist tries. It ends up being the very same question game Dawkins applies to “myths.“ ”Well where did the stuff from the first organism come from? Where did that come from? Where’d the matter come from to create the big bang?” And their answer to the child? “Well, we don’t know, but it’s ok cause science is perfectly fine saying it.” In the mind of the child that answer most likely won’t work, it’s the same as telling them “because I said so.“ Sorry Dawkins but these ”myths” make a lot more sense than nothing exploding and creating something and then a billion years later non-living pieces somehow finding their way and piecing themselves together in the right order to create living organisms.

      Report Post » scarebear83  
    • Cesium
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 3:44pm

      @Firebrand Don’t waste your time with Joe, he will never understand. He wants the love of a sky wizard so let him have it.

      @tangomike “I just don’t see nor can I comprehend how random & chaotic events could have led to the rise of everything” Then that is how we differ as molecular biologists. Yes, I can see how random chaotic events could lead to rise of life. Mindless algorithms exist in nature ie, El nino comes every 4 years, small grains of sand on the beach are sorted from large ones, The moon brings in the tide every night, RNA molecules can synthesize themselves if purines and pyrimidines just so happen to form the proper ribozymatic sequence. http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6026/209.short
      “Directed Evolution” proves production of Random RNAs can confer enzyme activity. You just need a physical barrier to allow these things to take place in close quarters. Maybe ID is behind the laws for this, I concede that, but I don‘t think it’s required either. I’m more willing to see validity in ID than religious claims on what that ID is. That is all myth 100% I just choose to view it as something I don’t have an answer for. I’m not convinced by molecular biology that ID must exist.

      Don’t give me that critical thinking BS. I read your posts.

      Report Post »  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 3:50pm

      talk your evolution untill you are blue in the face, you still can not account for how it all got here.

      You also know that if you teach evolution side by side with creation, many of use will believe creation.

      You fear God, so you try to explain away with science. You are no closer now, than Darwin was.

      “In the beginning God…….” I know, it terrifies you.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 3:51pm

      “Yes. Really. Those men you quote are using evolution as a basis to disprove the existence of G-d. This is like the gun debate. Guns don‘t kill people just like pencils don’t misspell words”

      no not really….you don’t speak for evolution…PROVINE DOES. lets see who should I believe, a world famous scientist or an anonymous poster on the internet…hmm…LOL

      “As a comparable example, the Romans, Spanish, and Germans all used religion as a justification for their role in persecution of one group or another. Does that make the Bible bad? Does that mean that the study of scripture is bad?” according to the atheists, YES.

      of course men can use anything to justify anything, your point is rather meaningless. evolution is racist to its core…eugenic to its core…the bible is not.

      Provine understand the theory, you do not.

      “The problem is that because of the gross misuse of the facts to support opinion, the scientific endeavor of researching evolution suffers”

      but you haven’t shown how provine misuses the theory of evolution….and he’s not the only one that says this…

      It was Darwin’s greatest accomplishment to show that the complex organization and functionality of living beings can be explained as the result of a natural process—natural selection—without any need to resort to a Creator or other external agent. (Francisco J. Ayala, “Darwin’s greatest discovery: Design without designer,” Proceedings of the National Academy

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 3:57pm

      “He wants the love of a sky wizard so let him have it. ”

      and one day you will FEAR Him beyond anything you can imagine….

      maybe since you hate God so, He feels the same way about you that He does about Esau….

      Malachi 1:

      2) “I have loved you,” says the LORD.
      “But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’

      “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.”

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • LibertarianForLife
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 4:35pm

      Nonsense? You must have slipped up and meant to refer to your imaginary friend that you have no evidence for. Logic my friend, try it some time.

      Report Post »  
    • nuttyvet
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 4:53pm

      Would you be upset if a Evangelical came to your school and indoctrinated… I mean taught the students the beliefs of Christianity> Just askin?

      Report Post » nuttyvet  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 5:03pm

      Parents who are believers indoctrinate their children everyday. When you do it,it‘s because you’re “teaching your children” when someone else does it, it’s “indoctrination.”

      Report Post »  
    • uncle Blake
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 5:09pm

      The “Origion Of Species” never deals with the actual ORIGIN OF SPECIES……. if you push the evolutionist far enough as to the actual origion of life on earth….. they give PANSPERMIA as the origion…. ask them where THAT life came from and they have no answer….. this is typical….

      Report Post »  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 5:21pm

      @joe1234

      If you want to see murder in the name of religion, look at humanism (the religion of socialist, communists, atheists).

      Hitler did not claim Bible when he exterminated six million Jews; he was a follower of Nietzsche’s teachings.

      Stalin was another humanist atheist; he killed around 20 million of his own.

      Mao another communist and atheist killed around 70 million.

      Part of the problem with such arguments as these, is you cannot discuss the real side of Christianity and have an atheist even understand what you are talking about. I have never known a drunk, or drug addict turn to atheism to get their life right, but sure have seen some bad folks get Jesus, and get on a new track.

      I do not know of any atheist groups that train, go to remote parts of the earth, live with the local population, just to bring them the good news of the Bible/.

      It is more than words on paper, a theory, a thought inside our heads. For some of us, Christianity is something we see in all manner of places. We can see work in people; we see creation as being ordered and for a reason. We read prophecy concerning the world and the nation of Israel, and see it play out before our own eyes. We read a living book, and no other book compares. We have a friendship and relationship with a Holy God that you have no knowledge of. Thus the reason I do not generally get angry when dealing with atheist, I feel sorry for them. Some call Christianity a crutch. I am thankful for such

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • Cesium
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 5:27pm

      @joe1234 “and one day you will FEAR Him beyond anything you can imagine….” And you have come to certitude about that statement through the bible? You can quote the bible until your blue in the face, it doesn’t make it anymore true. Even if you find archaeological evidence of biblical places or people of the bible it still doesn’t give any credence to the supernatural being fact.

      Report Post »  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 5:48pm

      @Ranger P

      Love the posts! 2nd law of thermodynamics is proof itself of God’s existence. Something had to wind the clock. It is that simple. 

      Science is nothing but the study of how God works but so many try to use it to say God doesn’t exist when actual science states the opposite. It is an agenda. 

      I hope you are doing good man. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 5:53pm

      @Okie from Muskogee

      Good to hear from you my friend.

      Little side note I find interesting. Look at American public schools, when we instructed via creation. Back then, we were top in the world in math and science.

      Look whap happened when we introduced humanism, evolution, and got rid of prayer, creation…. Now we are sitting about the 50th percentile world wide, and when we told them that they came from a monkey, they began to act like it. Education went down, school murder, suicide, drug use, gang activity, teen pregnancy….. all went up. Some of these problems never even existed in our schools prior to 63.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 6:12pm

      rangerrp…you need to see the difference between joei234 and me…you’re talking to the wrong person…it shows how effective I am that the wackos have to try to clone me to confuse people like you

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 6:14pm

      “And you have come to certitude about that statement through the bible? ”

      yep absolutely…and all you wackos have tried for centuries to falsify the bible…all to no avail…

      the bible stands, its critics are dust…I would say get a clue, but thats impossible in your case..

      you made your choice…don’t whine about the consequences.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 6:41pm

      Ranger P

      I agree our schools went strait down hill since around that timescale but I believe it has more to do with home structure. I feel the values and morals in the home lead to what a pupil studies or drives the school to study. It all starts in the home to me. 

      To be honest, I do not want the public school teaching my children about God like a Church would. I see nothing wrong with acknowledging of God in essence of Science and something started the clock but I do not want a public school being a Bible study for my children. I could only imagine the crazy stuff they would be taught. 

      Adults have given up authority of teaching their children to public schools after accepting the rat race we call life now so we can provide “stuff”. The same “stuff” we really do not need and is nothing but distractions. Imagine how smart our children would be without all the distractions….Children raised by the world will think as the world. We believers are not to be of the World! 

      Side thought-If we stood with Israel since that time why have we declined since and not received God’s blessing for doing so?  I find that strange…..

      It is all part of His plan and is following God’s Word to the letter. Stay strong bro! 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • AnAppealToGod
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 6:47pm

      Supernatural = things we weren’t made to comprehend.

      My dog doesn’t know there is a wireless signal in the air that is allowing me to order his food and treats while sitting next to him. But I do. You’re a complete ego maniac if you think we were made to comprehend and figure everything out with our little 3lb brains.

      Report Post » AnAppealToGod  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 6:57pm

      @Cesium

      You do not believe in God. Understand that does not pick my pocket. That’s your choice. Let’s hold an intellectual conversation just to compare thoughts. 

      What started the clock or chaos? And does chaos follow an order? 

      If man did evolve, why did we stop? Why has another species of man not formed? 

      @Joe
      Please tone down your rhetoric. If you believe in God and Jesus, speak as Jesus did, don’t come shouting people down like you are God. Your rhetoric makes other believers as myself look foolish. Speak with love…

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 6:57pm

      @joe1234

      dude, you are like famous on here. You got your own fan club, and copy cat crowd. There is a saying about those that try to emulate you, but it aint coming to me right this minute (I think I am devolving)

      Keep hooking and jabbing, you are doing well. Put yourself a little pic with your screen name, and see if turd burger the copy cat puts up the same pic.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 6:59pm

      “Hitler did not claim Bible when he exterminated six million Jews; he was a follower of Nietzsche’s teachings.”

      actually he was a follower of darwin…

      The Darwin-Hitler connection is no recent discovery. In her classic 1951 work The Origins of Totalitarianism, Hannah Arendt wrote: “Underlying the Nazis’ belief in race laws as the expression of the law of nature in man, is Darwin’s idea of man as the product of a natural development which does not necessarily stop with the present species of human being.”

      The standard biographies of Hitler almost all point to the influence of Darwinism on their subject. In Hitler: A Study in Tyranny, Alan Bullock writes: “The basis of Hitler’s political beliefs was a crude Darwinism.” What Hitler found objectionable about Christianity was its rejection of Darwin’s theory: “Its teaching, he declared, was a rebellion against the natural law of selection by struggle and the survival of the fittest.”

      John Toland’s Adolf Hitler: The Definitive Biography says this of Hitler’s Second Book published in 1928: “An essential of Hitler’s conclusions in this book was the conviction drawn from Darwin that might makes right.”

      In his biography, Hitler: 1889-1936: Hubris, Ian Kershaw explains that “crude social-Darwinism” gave Hitler “his entire political ‘world-view.’ ” Hitler, like lots of other Europeans and Americans of his day, saw Darwinism as offering a total picture of social reality. This v

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 7:09pm

      Okie from Muskogee

      I generally stay away from “I think”, “I believe”, “ I feel” sort of arguments, and prefer to lay down history, facts, statistics. I am just not into the mushy, but being you asked, I will give a stab.

      I believe whole hearted that in Genesis 12, God told Abraham that he would bless those that bless Israel, and also curse those that curse Isreal. I think history does a pretty good job of backing that up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FspfOI_YRU

      We have been a huge supporter of Israel, and most likely their best friend. With out a doubt, we are one of the most blessed nations on the face of the earth, and our standard of living, is……. Well, it is the standard.

      There are also many other promises in the Bible, other than just supporting Israel. God curses nations that accept homosexuality and partake in wickedness. As a nation, we embrace all manner of wickedness.

      This is just my thoughts, and no way to prove, but I believe our support of Israel is the one thing holding back God’s hand of judgement on us as a nation. I believe as we embrace homosexuality, and as Obama turns his back on Israel, you will see chaos in the U.S in days ahead that are beyond the imagination of most. Just my opinion, and not worth dog snot.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 7:17pm

      ranger, I’ll take your advise…and post a picture of the emporer from star wars…you don’t know the power of dark side…

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • S G Applebee
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 7:26pm

      It’s sometimes tough to be a fan of Beck because so many of his followers spout off on subjects in which they know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about.

      Report Post »  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 7:28pm

      @joe1234

      Cool pic, let us see if copy cat tries to emulate.

      If you really break it down, some of the most vile folks in world history that murdered millions all were followers of godless men. they were worshipers of their own minds.

      take socrates. Mr ” One thing only I know, and that is that I know nothing”. He has sex with a young boy, sacrificed a chicken to a false snake god, then killed himself.

      Do a little history study and see how most of the so called smart ones died. Most died in mysery. They worship their own brain, until one day they realize their own mortality, then they lose it. Hitler, Mao, Lennin, Stallin, and on down the line. The folks always get good press, but the Bible is mocked. Nothing new, been going on for centuries.

      I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate, and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge. And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit. For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 7:38pm

      @Ranger P

      Your thought are important whether found true or false as it leads to other thought which eventually leads to factual truth. Every action has a reaction. It’s natural law…. 

      This is the one problem I have issue with, the thought we have to stand with Israel. I believe you know I hate no one so do not think that. My faith believes Jesus made Jerusalem desolate for turning their back on God. And by the US and UN recreating a partial Israel they have went against God (Jesus) and are trying to be God. Daniel 9:25-27 I believe these verses have been twisted to fit an agenda. Was just curious on your thoughts and thank you for them. 

      Gotta go hay, I’ll be back! 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 7:55pm

      @Ranger P
      @Joe1234

      I contend you are both wrong on history. Let’s take the man at his own words as we are told to today..

      “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so” — Adolf Hitler

      “Hitler was also ready to discuss with the Bishop his views on the Jewish question: “As for the Jews, I am just carrying on with the same policy which the Catholic church has adopted for fifteen hundred years, when it has regarded the Jews as dangerous and pushed them into ghettos etc., because it knew what the Jews were like. I don’t put race above religion, but I do see the danger in the representatives of this race for Church and State, and perhaps I am doing Christianity a great service.” -“The Nazi Persecution of the Churches” by J.S. Conway, Pgs. 25, 26 & 162. 

      “The Pope said to me…that Germany must become the sword of the Catholic Church.”  - WILHELM II Emperor of Germany -

      “There has never been anything more grandiose on the earth than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic Church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party.” – Adolph Hitler – (The Nazi Persecution of the Churches” by J.S. Conway – Pgs. 25, 26 & 162)

      The only Nazi ever excommunicated by the church of Rome, even after all the war crime tribunals was Joseph Gerbils. His crime? He married a Protestant..

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 7:58pm

      In my faith the Roman Catholic Church is not of God as the Pope declares to be Christ on Earth. A lot of history has been scrubbed. You can google for pics and find many of Catholic pope and bishops with Hitler. Do your own research. Remember, we entered the war because of Japan, not Germany. I just found this interesting and something to think about since it is his own words and pictures are out there. 

      Now I gotta hay……

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 8:03pm

      @okie…please stop referring to yourself as a christian, you’re an embarrassment to the Name.

      uh yeah all those historians are wrong…they’re all part of the CONSPIRACY!!

      if hitler was such a christian, then why did he put so many christians in concentration camps, and start his own religion the deutschen christen church? hmmm??

      who cares what wilhelm the II says? I mean seriously we’ve talked before, and you’re a nut-case.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 8:40pm

      Joe

      Considering the Catholic Church murdered, burned, beheaded and tortured about 25 times more people then Hitler for not bowing to the Pope I wouldn’t rush to say Hitler or Catholic are Christian. They may call themselves Christian, as many who are not today do, but their actions and fruit show other wise. Kind of like those on the board saying they are Christian yet speak like Satan full of hate. 

      You are right, why listen to the words these people say. Let’s just make it up as we go along to fit the agenda. 

      If you believe I’m a nutcase, what does that make you for conversing with me? Go on now and find someone else to talk down to and yell at and see where that gets you. Your hate isn’t welcome with me. Take care. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • lisa61
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 8:52pm

      LOL… why would Richard spend SOOO Much time trying for YEARS & at a huge cost to himself to downplay a myth? If MY LORD AND SAVIOUR is a Myth..they why would he bother ? see that is the part I don’t understand ? WHY does it bother him so ? for those of you who support him, why does it matter to u what I think ? you have taken Christ from the Schools.. you teach your hate there daily.. so be happy, don;t worry…. be happy :-) AW !! but you can’t !
      why does he spend ONE minute ,let alone a life time chasing his ‘tail’ just to demystify MY LORD ?LOL he needs to prove his “Theory is truth” and then get on with his life. WHY oh why does my presence as a Christian bother him? Is he being played ? yes he is . by the USER of ALL USERS.
      what did his Grandmother teach him? did his fav . uncle abuse him? what deprivation did he endure as a child ? there is always a back ground…… has he told the truth ? Hum?????

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 8:59pm

      “Considering the Catholic Church murdered, burned, beheaded and tortured about 25 times more people then Hitler for not bowing to the Pope I wouldn’t rush to say Hitler or Catholic are Christian.”

      this is seriously stupid…you are a deluded liar….the spanish inquisition killed a couple HUNDRED people during the CENTURIES of its existence….

      you proclaim yourself christian, but are an embarrassment to the Name.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:27pm

      Joe

      Go read John Paul’s own admission of these acts in the “Mea Culpa”. Or read John Foxe’s “Book of Martyrs”. But of course, I should believe you and not them. What’s odd is, if you are Protestant and say the Roman Catholic Church isn’t ani-Christ, you believe opposite then the founders of your own Church and Faith……And you call me nuts?!!!! 

      Have a good night Joe. We have nothing further to discuss.  

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:34pm

      @Okie from Muskogee

      You my friend are lock step with what I believe about the roman catholic empire. I still believe Hitler a athiest, but he did pay tribute to the catholic church, and they in turn looked the other way while he slaughtered the jews.

      Ever read the Fox’s Book of Martyrs? http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/home.html
      gives a very detailed account of the many murders of the catholic church against christians. they were especially brutal to anyone who tried to translate the Bible.

      Known many catholic people I love, but I have no love for the catholic church. I am no theologan, but have read the Bible a few times over. Never found a pope, pergatory, prayer to Mary, infant baptism, and a whole lot more.

      I think it would be true to say that there is much in common between the Catholic Church and Muslims. Both corrupted the Bible, turned religion into govenrment, and ruled with an iron fist

      Joe 123. If you are catholic, I sill like you, but not your church.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:51pm

      Ranger P

      Two thumbs up! I could go deeper with how this ties to God’s Word but will respect the board and the topic. If you do study it with an open mind and look at history it is amazing what one can see and how far along in prophesy we actually are. Okiefrommuskogee33@yahoo.com if you ever want to chat or talk God’s Word. 

      I agree, a lot of good Catholics but the actual Church is anti-Christ. Satan is the master manipulator. And yes, Muslim‘s and Catholic’s have much in common and a history. 

      Stay safe my friend. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • veruca salt
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:26pm

      I’m sure Dawkins would visit Glenn and discuss or debate his views with our favorite Mormon. You’re not afraid to invite him on, are you Mr. Beck? Mr. O’Reilly did and surely he has no more Courage than you, Mr. Beck. Come on, Dawkins is just a crazy old “intellectual” and you’re the man with all the facts, Glenn. You can take him!

      But then again, it’s always easier to take pot shots from the safety of the Blaze.

      Report Post »  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 1:28am

      Dawkins writing a book like this was inevitable, particularly given the statistically insignificant societal impact of the “new atheism”. He aims to get them while they’re young…indoctrination, thy name is RIchard Dawkins.

      On a related note…does anyone else find it amusing that “indoctrination” to the atheist is shorthand for “that with which I disagree”?

      I also enjoyed this bit from the article:

      “But Dawkins has proven himself little interested in avoiding debate in the past.”

      Unless of course that debate is with Bill Craig.

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 2:04am

      @VERUCASALT – Before Dawkins debates Glenn Beck, perhaps he should warm up with WIlliam Lane Craig. I’m sure the brave Sir Dawkins would relish the chance, if only he were given the opportunity. Oh wait…

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
    • veruca salt
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 6:16am

      Fair enough. And Glenn should probably do a little stretching and warming up himself. You know, he just hasn’t been up to debating an opposing view since the ladies on the View pummeled him.

      Report Post »  
    • NukeHaze
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 7:09am

      The guy is a fruit. Anyone seeing the vid or hearing the audio as I did on the show today could deduce that using the scientific method.

      Firebrand:
      You spew a lot of big words acting like you know more than youe do. You can tell how much a persone really knows about the subject by how well they can explain it to and empathize with the lay reader. I am not a lay reader, however, and still see much incoherent babble that is completely unrelated to proving the “theory of evolution” much less your dream of turning it into a “law of evolution” which would be your fantasy, I am sure.

      This guy is just as cracked as the Fabian Socialists that state they would smother a baby with a pillow if it was retarded. There is your survival of the fittest and “evolution of species” incarnate. The next step up from a theory is a law. NOT a “science”. Whoever controls the minds of the youth will control the society when they are grown up and in charge. This is nothing more than another leftist pregressive attack against anything that their demigod Darwin (who admitted how much he could not explain and never truly convinced himself of his “theory) who never wished to be worshipped as he is. He is used far more today as an excuse to remove God from anything today than he is actually accepted as being correct. He was right that there is environmental adaptation. There always has been. Why are human beings the only species in the biosphere that can CHOOSE where they want to live and

      Report Post »  
    • joei234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 8:14am

      This is great:
      http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/02/glenn-beck-off-the-rails-and-into-the-abyss-with-joel-richardson-and-zuhdi-jasser/

      Report Post » joei234  
    • NHwinter
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 8:16am

      Wasn’t Madaline Murray, the atheist, found dead and her son became a Christian? Never know what will happen to these people.

      Report Post » NHwinter  
    • joei234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 8:19am

      What we are really seeing from Glenn Beck and the Christian Right crowd that he is pandering to with these insane antics is a classic case of PROJECTION. It is in fact many in the Christian Right who believe that the End Times, the Last Days can be hastened. They actually believe they have a role in bringing Jesus Christ back to Earth!

      One of the violent consequences of this disastrous theology is that they believe the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque must be destroyed and the Third Jewish Temple be built for Jesus to return to earth. Imagine the repercussions if they are successful in this mad dash to instigate cataclysm?

      The one piece of evidence that Islamophobes, Beck and his ilk use to try to instill fear in the populace is their de-contextualized recital of a hadith (saying of the Prophet Muhammad) and its variations that says, ‘the Last Day will not arrive until the Jews fight the Muslims and the Muslims defeat them.’

      Report Post » joei234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 9:30am

      @okie…you’re a liar with your statement:

      “Considering the Catholic Church murdered, burned, beheaded and tortured about 25 times more people then Hitler for not bowing to the Pope”

      post your proof for that, or admit you’re a liar. thats over 100 million people…no one had the technology to kill that many people until the 20th century….you are evil and vile….

      a reference to a book doesn’t cut it.

      the catholic church has killed those they disagreed with, as has the protestant church…look at martin luther’s vile statements against the jews…I’m sure you have no problem with that though….

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • ireport uderide
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:02am

      Firebrand
      Rather than spend all day looking up all these fancy words and phrases lets go with, “homologous recombination”.

      As stolen from wisegeek.com
      Genetic engineers also utilize homologous recombination in their work. It allows them to target a specific area of the genome for modification, allowing for the insertion or deletion of genes without damaging or changing the genome as a whole. As the field of genetic engineering advances, the technique is refined and adjusted. Labs which study the genomes of various organisms often have equipment which can be used for homologous recombination, and the technique can be used for everything from studying the impact of various genes on physical development to creating custom lab animals for experimentation.
      Can you pick out the words that have to do with the activities sentient beings manipulating genomes?
      Yes I think this example stands on the solid foundation of sand/science.

      Here’s one to look up. “Punctuated Equilibria” or the “Hopeful Monster Theory”.
      I’ll give you a clue. A dinosaur lays an egg and out pops a chicken. I know it’s just a “Theory”, but it’s being taught as fact in our schools. I’m sure you’ve heard all of the “In crowd” describing the little chickadees flying about were once great big Stegosaurus’s.
      ROFLMAO…

      Report Post » ireport uderide  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:42am

      Joe

      Oh Joe, please, say it ain’t so…..Are you back here speaking from the heart and spewing hatred….Poor soul….Bless your heart….

      You may be ignorant of the fact fire, guillotines, swords, rope and torture were all in good use way before the 20th century so please educate yourself so you don’t sound so foolish. 

      Pagan Rome actually had law persecuting all Christians until Constantine mixed paganism and Christianity together. Then Papal Rome took over and began persecuting any who didn’t believe and bow to the Pope. And yes Joe, over time it equaled at least 25 times more then Hitler slaughtered. Open a book and educate yourself so you stop sounding so foolish. Foxes book of Martyrs is a good start…. 

      You will believe how you want to believe. If you seek truth, you will find it. If you are a coward, you will deny it and run from it. Once you decide to be responsible and admit these truths of the Catholic Church we will then have a discussion on Martin Luther and his “anti-Semitic” writings. Martin Luther never killed the Jews. Roman Catholics did. Before trying to find a speck in my faith’s eye, pull that log out of your own. Denying these atrocities is the same as Iran’s president denying the Holocaust! 

      Have a great day Joe and please, educate yourself so you don’t sound so foolish.  

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:49am

      @ Joe 1234 (aka the copy cat)

      My good frined Okie appears to be tied up, so let me help him out.

      Medieval Christian persecution of heresyIn the medieval period the Roman Catholic Church moved to suppress the Cathar heresy, the Pope having sanctioned a crusade against the Albigensians, during the course of which the massacre of Béziers took place, with between seven and twenty thousand deaths. Papal legate Arnaud Amalric, when asked how Catholics could be distinguished from Cathars once the city fell, famously replied, “Kill them all, God will know His own.” Over the twenty-year period of this campaign an estimated 200,000 to 1,000,000 people were killed

      John Huss, a Bohemian preacher of reformation, was burned at the stake on 6 July 1415. Pope Martin V issued a bull on 17 March 1420 which proclaimed a crusade “for the destruction of the Wycliffites, Hussites and all other heretics in Bohemia”.

      The Crusades in the Middle East also spilled over into conquest of Eastern Orthodox Christians by Roman Catholics and attempted suppression of the Orthodox Church. The Waldenses were as well persecuted by the Catholic Church, but survive up to this day.

      http://www.iiipublishing.com/franco.htm Here is another two million

      http://richleonardi.blogspot.com/2005/08/25-million-killed-by-catholic-church.html Got 25 million on this one

      It is not that hard copy cat dude, just throw “catholic and murder” into google, and start reading.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • rangerp
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:56am

      @joe 1234

      dude, you changed your pic and screwed me up. I see copy cat did use your pic. He is a slick one aint he.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 12:16pm

      ranger…..from the site you linked to…

      The 25 million figure is laughable. The Black Death didn’t even kill that many people, and it wiped-out approximately 1/3 of Europe with casualty rates among Catholic clergy much higher due to their ministry to the infected.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 12:21pm

      “And yes Joe, over time it equaled at least 25 times more then Hitler slaughtered. Open a book and educate yourself so you stop sounding so foolish. Foxes book of Martyrs is a good start…. ”

      thats just insane….assuming the 6 million jews, and hitler killed more than just jews…6 x 25 = 150 MILLION people….not a chance…hell there probably weren’t that many people in europe as a whole between the fall of rome and the rise of protestantism.

      you sound like a hate-filled wacko. oh and the pope isn’t the anti-christ..the MAHDI is…get a clue.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 1:11pm

      @VERUCA SALT – Let’s forget Glenn Beck, as he is neither a philosopher, academic, engineer, or a scientist. I just want to see Dawkins and Craig go at it. To borrow from your namesake, “I want it now!”

      That should be more than enough to rid Dawkins of whatever small shred of credibility he has left as an academic or scientist. We already know he’s a godawful philosopher, that he knows nothing of theology, that he sullied his previous Oxford post with his militant atheism, that he is an exceedingly poor debater, and that everyone is controlled by their “selfish genes”…except for Dawkins that is, which he makes quite clear.

      No wonder one of his fellow atheists at Oxford stated that Dawkins’ “The God Delusion” makes him “ashamed” to be an atheist. I think a debate with Craig would pretty much do it in for poor Dickie D, and then he would be left as nothing more than a fading piece of British pop culture.

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 1:22pm

      @nukehaze
      Don’t you think that you are making an assumption about my knowledge on the subject? Considering that this is an anonymous forum, you have no idea what my level of expertise is… Second, I have NEVER claimed that I want a LAW of evolution. All I’ve said is that we will get to an answer as more information is gained. Please, please read my statements in context. All I have ever said is that the study of evolution is a scientific endeavor and that the answer as to whether or not it exists is still unproven. By definition, that means that the validity of saying it does or does not occur is equal at this time. So, based on that, the people who say it doesn’t occur have as valid a point as the people that say it does, but that doesn’t mean that the study of or endeavor to study it should be abandoned.

      In other words, just because you don‘t want evolution to be shown to be likely doesn’t mean we shouldn’t study it. Research will show whether it does or does not occur. The argument that the fossil record, or vestigial organs or complex tissues, DISPROVES it are completely wrong. Again, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

      To answer your accusation, am I an evolutionary biologist? No, but I am a biochemist and molecular biologist. I do believe in the scientific method and that “the answer is the answer no matter what the answer”. The truth has no agenda, whether political, scientific, or religious in nature.

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 1:36pm

      @ireport
      Genetic engineers do use homologous recombination, a naturally occurring process, for their research. They use it in order to introduce, replace, or remove specific areas of DNA, just like it is used “in the wild”. This process was discovered first and then used. It wasn’t dreamed up in a lab. In other words, Mt. Everest was the tallest mountain in the world even before it was discovered.
      With that being said, I was trying to make two points. 1) that there are examples of naturally occurring additions and deletions to the genome (to counter Herm’s post) and 2) to give some information that people could look up to become more educated on the subject of genetics and mol/bio.

      Are there those that use the information to push an agenda? Yes, for both sides. All I have ever said is that the research is the research and the answer will be the answer. So, research should continue and the chips should fall where they may. That’s just my point of view, I‘m not trying to change anyone else’s mind, just explaining why I hold my point of view. This is not the case for Joe who wants to brow beat people into seeing things by his point of view.

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • gn123
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 2:34pm

      Ask your college if it is going to have an intelligent Christian next so that the college can provide a choice for the students; otherwise the college is taking sides; and this taking sides should make the donors REALLY nervous.

      Report Post »  
    • riverdog1
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 2:39pm

      i prefer not to be indoctrinated by religeon. school is for learning, not myths and fables.

      Report Post »  
    • Infidelephant
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 3:57pm

      JOE1234 (the real one)

      Sorry dude, you consistently do sound quite stupid. Seriously.

      Report Post » Infidelephant  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 5:58pm

      Joe 

      You throw insults to almost everyone you converse with and then say I’m hate filled. Thank you again for proving the point. You speaking is proof in itself. 

      Yes Joe 25 x 6 = 150. I‘m glad to see your math isn’t as poor as your history and your courage in facing truth. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over expecting a different result. Insanity would be by definition combining Church/State and expecting them not to kill those they disagree with like they have during Roman times over and over and over and over and over again. 

      Insanity would be calling names and insulting people over and over and over and over expecting people to listen to you each time. Something to ponder……

      Unless you really believe in the Mhadhi and that the Mhadhi will come out from under a rock, like Muslims do, I’m unsure how you get the idea the Mhadhi is the Anti-Christ. Don‘t tell the Muslims but the Mhadhi doesn’t exist………….There is no evidence from God’s Word to back your opinion up either. Now there is evidence Islam is the 3 Woes of Revelations. 

      So Joe, do you really believe a Mhadhi is coming? What are you trying to say Joe? Say it ain’t so Joe………….

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Thomas
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 6:15pm

      Ask Richard Dawkins to define reality.

      Illusion is that which appears, seems real, but then disappears like a mirage but Truth (reality) is that which is and has been always. Self is a delusion that mixes and dilutes Truth (reality) with illusion. Time is a word we use to describe illusion and its nature while Life is Truth and is always. Life is already Eternal but it is the deluded mind that mixes Life and time and then lives by the philosophy of “lifetime”. We have been given time in order to make a decision of which we want more Truth which brings us the nature of the Truth or more illusion which brings us the nature of illusion. Death is the result of the nature of illusion. We must reap what we sow. God simply doesn’t want us to wait til we die but to realize the Truth now and humble the time created and therefore illusory self identity for the sake of the Truth which is the imagless Spirit of Life our loving Father whom Jesus came to introduce us to and to teach us how to humble the self.

      Report Post » Thomas  
    • Lucy Larue
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 6:54pm

      DONTTALK2COMMIES,

      And he IS an IDIOT!
      He is a smug, narcissistic,shallow, moral relativist, IDIOT!
      He believes he knows EVERYTHING! He knows NOTHING! UGH!

      I despise him. He is a destroyer. His filthy lucre comes from destruction. He does not care.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 7:50pm

      @Infidelephant you mean I make atheist wackos like you look stupid…you sure don’t have the guts or intelligence to debate me, its painfully obvious…LOL

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 7:56pm

      “You throw insults to almost everyone you converse with and then say I’m hate filled. ”

      oh yeah Okie, you insult the largest christian church in the world, over a billion people, with hate-filled wacko lies….and then you accuse me of hate…right, its called projection, we’ve talked about this before, you really need professional help.

      “Insanity would be calling names and insulting people over and over and over and over expecting people to listen to you each time. Something to ponder……”

      uh yeah you may want to take the log out of your eyes before you take the spec out of another’s…I didn’t insult 1 BILLION people with UNSUBSTANTIATED LIES. you spew some of the worst hatred I’ve ever seen on a message board….you should be ashamed of yourself, you bring shame to the Name of Christ.

      “I’m unsure how you get the idea the Mhadhi is the Anti-Christ” oh I don’t know, maybe because I’m educated and have read enough about him to realize he matches up with the anti-christ in an uncanny way….and given that the anti-christ BEHEADS those who oppose him..wonder where he gets that idea from…duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

      “So Joe, do you really believe a Mhadhi is coming? What are you trying to say”

      yeah he sure is..and you bill bow down and get your mark….

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 8:07pm

      “Insanity would be by definition combining Church/State and expecting them not to kill those they disagree with like they have during Roman times over and over and over and over and over again. ”

      oh okie, since you are SO good at history, explain Poland (before the nazis took over) which was a VERY catholic country…and yet had one of, if not the largest populations of jews in europe….

      according to you thats impossible…I look forward to your ‘logic’ *smirk*

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 9:47pm

      Joe

      Truth isn’t an insult, it’s love. To deny the Church murdered these people is the same as Muslims denying the Holocaust. That is your choice. Believe as you wish, just understand facts do not agree with your opinion. 

      Who were the first and most famous for beheading? The guillotine? The Roman Catholic Church………………How was Paul martyred? Beheaded….Was Islam around then, NOPE……History Joe, History….

      If you are educated around the Mhadhi and Islam have you educated yourself around Islam’s origin? Do so and then we will talk. All signs point to the Catholics and even said so by Muslims in Qatar……..I don’t believe you to be educated around the Mhadhi, Islam and where it is found in God’s Words. 

      If you do know history you know Poland was Pagan, like Western Rome for a while, until about 900 or so and then became Catholic under Mieszko 1. Casimir III gave royal protection to the Jews and considering the black plague really didn’t reach Poland there is no wonder why Jews began to migrate there. After the King Casimir dies Golden Liberty came into effect and soon after the Protestant Reformation dug deep in Poland leading to tolerance of religion and Jews migrated even more. You surely do not think Jews living in Poland disproves the Catholic Church murdered millions? Surely you are not that foolish. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 9:57pm

      “To deny the Church murdered these people is the same as Muslims denying the Holocaust. That is your choice. Believe as you wish, just understand facts do not agree with your opinion.”

      you don’t have any facts. you have shown me nothing that supports your laughable lie…you reference ONE BOOK, but have nothing from that book that indicates it is A) reliable or B) says anything that backs up your statements.

      you ‘sir’ are a liar. a hateful liar.

      “Who were the first and most famous for beheading? The guillotine? The Roman Catholic Church………………How was Paul martyred? Beheaded….Was Islam around then, NOPE”

      wow that is amazingly STUPID…..we don’t know exactly how paul was martyred…apparently beheaded by ROME…you know NERO…..not the pope, there was none…not the roman catholic church….a pathetic slander on your part. the guillotine wasn’t invented until at least a MILLENIA later…best known for its use in atheist france..the TERROR…you are ignorant as hell.,

      “If you are educated around the Mhadhi and Islam have you educated yourself around Islam’s origin? ”

      much better than you obviously…

      “You surely do not think Jews living in Poland disproves the Catholic Church murdered millions”

      it sure proves you were lying about the combination of church and state killing those they disagree with you ignorant dumba**

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 9:58pm

      Teutonics Knights, a Catholic order from Germany fought the Poles for quite some time, centuries. Catholics fighting Catholics for power…

      Have you ever read the Jesuit oath? Might want to do that…..

      The only shame is the shame of the man proclaiming to be Christ on Earth, the Pope, who says he can forgive your sin. The same Pope who says Catholics and Muslims worship the same God. Same Pope who reaches out to the Palestinians. Same Pope who preaches Liberation Theology. Same Pope who say all shall worship thru him. Same Pope who teaches opposite of the Bible. Same Pope who matches Biblical prophecy to the letter….

      Have a great night Joe. I’ll pray for you! 

      P.S. No Mhadhi is coming……Islam is a false religion…..Unless your calling the Pope Mhadhi these days……

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • webpreacher
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:06pm

      Waste of time, covering these blasphemous idiots. their nothing new, neither is their foolish rhetoric. The Blaze needs to stop wasting their time with the atheist, along with the rest of America, who out number the atheist by 10,000 to 1, Anything more need be said ?

      good christian web site should anybody be interested.

      http://www.Jesus-is-Savior.com

      Report Post » webpreacher  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:07pm

      “The only shame is the shame of the man proclaiming to be Christ on Earth, ”

      this is another despicable lie. the Pope claims to be Christ’s vicar, His chief representative…not Christ himself. have you no shame? your constant lies shows whom you belong to….and it definately is not Christ.

      “the Pope, who says he can forgive your sin.”

      Jesus told His followers they can forgive sins..

      John 20:23:
      “If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

      perhaps you should read the bible before making a bigger fool out of yourself…

      as far as your other laughable claims post your proof…put up or shut up.

      “Same Pope who reaches out to the Palestinians.”

      Christians are supposed to reach out to everyone

      “Same Pope who preaches Liberation Theology”

      BS the popes have come out against liberation theology for quite some time…get a clue

      ” Same Pope who say all shall worship thru him. Same Pope who teaches opposite of the Bible. Same Pope who matches Biblical prophecy to the letter….”

      more lies and BS, you really are full of it.

      oh yeah knights fought each other …YAWN….any other brilliant insights there gomer??

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:09pm

      @okie, what dark evil god do you pray to?

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:30pm

      Joe

      You sound just as Iran’s President…Sad…Your right, the Catholic Church killed no one. 

      I was simply pointing out beheading came into existence before Islam and was used later after Pagan Rome fell by the Catholic Church. Guillotines were later installed for a cleaner kill. 

      Your right, because Islam beheads now they are the anti-Christ. That makes so much sense……Didn‘t answer the question on Islam’s roots?…..

      No actually it doesn’t prove anything other then Jews migrated to Poland and Poland had some good people. The Church/State mixing of 1260 years lead to many deaths in most European countries. Some factions fought it, others didn’t. It still happened. 

      You asked for facts from God’s Word showing your Pope is anti-Christ. Post will be up shortly. After that post, you can contact me at the email I provide to further discuss. This is not the topic of the board. I ask you again to keep your devil tongue in check and stop with the insults. It is not needed. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:35pm

      To Joe

      Peter not Pope Scriptures

      And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 16:18 KJV)

      The only verse used as evidence of Peter being first “Pope” seems firm but does anything else confirm it, no, it shows it falsely taught. 

      -Paul says their equal; 2 Corinthians 11:5
      -Paul censors Peter; Galatians 2:11-16
      -Peter is a pillar of Church, not the Pillar. Galatians 2:8-10
      -Peter was sent to preach by others; Acts 8
      -Peter did not preside the Council of Jerusalem; Acts 15
      -Peter refused to have Cornelius kneel to him; Acts 10:25-26
      -Peter professes he can’t forgive sin, like popes today; Acts 8:22
      -Peter says he’s a pastor or elder; I Peter 5: 1-3

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:38pm

      Joe

      Daniel 7 breakdown

      1 day = one year Ezekiel 4:6 
      The Bible uses a 30 day month. This can be shown thru Noah and flood.  Rain started on 17th day 2nd month.(Genesis 7:11)  Water receded 150 days later.(Genesis 8:3,4) Ark rested on 17th day of 7th month.(Genesis 8:3,4) 150/5=30 

      Time = 30 days x 12 months = 360 years
      Times = 720 years
      Half time = 180 years
      = 1260 years reign

      9 keys to the Little horn in Daniel 7

      It came up from within the 10 nations (v8)
      It arose after the 10 nations began (after 476ad) (v 24)
      It has a greater appearance than the 10 (v20)
      A man sits at its head (eyes like a man) (v8)
      It plucked up 3 nations: Heruli 493ad; Vandals 534ad and Ostrogoths in 538ad (v 21,25)
      It blasphemed against God speaking pompous words (v8,20,25)
      It will make war with the saints (v 21,25)
      Changes times and laws (v 25)
      Will reign 1260 years (7.25)

      538 Ad-Papal Rome begins reign 
      1798 Ad-Papal Rome received head wound
      =1260 years

      Head wound of Rome was healed in Lateran Treaty 1929 Vatican becomes church and state, again. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:45pm

      2 Thessalonians 2:4 says,”Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”

      “Most Divine of all Heads.”
      “Holy Father of Fathers.”
      “Pontiff Supreme Over Prelates.”
      “Overseer of the Christian Religion.”
      “Pastor of Pastors.”
      “Christ by Unction.”
      “Abraham by Patriachate.”
      “Melchisedec in Order.”
      “Moses in Authority.”
      “Samuel in the Judicial Office.”
      “High Priest, Supreme Bishop.”
      “Heir to the Apostles; Peter in Power.”
      “Key-bearer of the Kingdom of Heaven.”
      “Pontiff Appointed with Plenitude of Power.”
      “Vicar of Christ.”
      “Vicar of the Son of God.”
      “Sovereign Priest.”
      “Head of all the Holy Churches.”
      “Chief of the Universal Church.”
      “Bishop of Bishops.”
      “Ruler of the House of the Lord.”
      “Apostolic Lord and Father of Fathers.”
      “Chief Pastor and Teacher.”
      “Physician of Souls.”
      “Rock against which the proud gates of hell prevail not.”
      “Infallible Pope.”
      “Head of All the Holy Priests of God”
      “Chief bridge maker”

      Pontifix Maximus is a papal title meaning in Latin “chief bridge maker” between earth and heaven. However, Jesus Christ is the only One who can claim this title because “no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6.

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:57pm

      Joe

      When asked about… “Liberation theology.” Ratzinger said.. “The ‘absolute good’ (and this means building a just socialist society) becomes the moral norm that justifies everything else, including–if necessary–violence, homicide, mendacity.” Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger ~  US News & World Report, Dec 2, 1985  

      Be ready for your Pope to encourage you and Muslim together to worship thru him…..

      Believe as you wish. I could hit you with the stick of truth and you would still deny it. You want to converse more, shoot me an email. Take care and have a good night. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • NukeHaze
      Posted on September 22, 2011 at 7:55am

      @ Firebrand:

      I am a nuclear physicist and have had to study likely as much biochemistry as you have. I was pointing out that LAW is the next step from THEORY… nothing else. I never said that evolution should not be studied but believe it shows some good points in the existence of environmental adaptation ad “survival of the fittest”. Darwin never did explain during his lifetime, by the way. why humans began growing such massive brain matter over other animals and never could extrapolate where or what the “missing link” was. I propose that pure vegetarian diets have a lot to do with losing brain matter since more of the body’s resources must be diverted to the digestive system which was considered to be a more vital organ for the survival of the organism. When we reached the top of the food chain and became omnivores, brain matter began forming as a side effect to not requiring as massive of a digestive system to digest meat. Dr. Atkins was really onto something big until he slipped on that sidewalk. Hmmm, does this mean that the liberal agenda who is currently destroying the farmland in rural America (which is also whre they get their vegetarian, vegan, and everyday produce) is going to in any way shape or form help sustain their lifestyles? What the heck are they thinking when they vote?!? You make a lot of accusations and defend yourself as if my statements are personal attacks. My proposition is simply not give absolute teaching power to the teachers’ unions as

      Report Post »  
    • NukeHaze
      Posted on September 22, 2011 at 8:05am

      It has always ended badly and just like ANY “progressive” idea, it devalues life of human beings and gives more value to the planet and the animals. If you progressives hate humans so much, maybe you should give up your citizenship to humanity in favor of belonging to another species. A noble peacock perhaps so you can strut around pompously flaring your tails at others or perhaps a blowfish since you all seem to have so much hot air for your accusations and counter acusations. You hae come the closest I have ever seen on the Blaze to ever being one who actually would approach a debating point and do so with some (perhaps) level of intelligence instead of regurgitated talking points from a book on rule for radicals. Try sticking to one point and debating it through before you move on to the next one and THEN sum them ALL up by saying that we therefore have no case because we haven’t sufficiently answered a single one of them. That is ludicrous. You do not even address the point itself but rather the messenger who dared oppose your point instead. Way off topic. Now, where were you? I PERSONALLY believe that God is the ultimate scientist and that the degree of complexity of life and difference in human growth over thousands of years is proof itself of the divine and not simply tossing a trillion pennies in the air and end up with them all landing on heads which is what likening the conditions of life and spontaneous collisions of microbes into organisms later mutating togeth

      Report Post »  
    • NukeHaze
      Posted on September 22, 2011 at 8:19am

      …together to form all the species we have on this planet now from a single event is utterly implausible just as the idea of the pennies all landing on heads is. Sure there is a remote possibility but Occam’s Razor will cut you every time. “The only logical explanation to the existence of the universe is God.” We need to teach facts in schools and less absolute speculation. Most of wat we find in even the study of anthropology and how societies behaved is abstract guesswork even assuming some cultures having performed human sacrifices not ever admitting the possibility that structures perhaps later used for those rituals had originally a much different purpose but were later retasked by a new dominant culture because the buildings were already there and they mayhaps just did not want to let a good “temple” go to waste. So much is taught as “fact” due to lack of some other explanation or it not being one that is in favor in politics at that moment. All we want is the truth no matter where it leads us. I am confident we will find certain things but many others I have had to unlearn so that I could be open to new ideas. Our schools are teaching our children to have CLOSED minds and not think for themselves. They are devaluing the lives of humans so that the goals of the progressives such as inscribed on the Georgia guidestones capping the world population at 500,000 will become much easier to accomplish and justify one day. Scientific truth today leads us to the $ fundin

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 22, 2011 at 8:59am

      “is not the topic of the board. I ask you again to keep your devil tongue in check and stop with the insults. It is not needed. ”

      LOL talk about a devil tongue….another clear case of projection….what a nut-job you are.

      whats to answer about your idiotic ASSertions about islam? you don’t make any points, you just ramble on….

      as far as liberation theology…

      The case against liberation theology

      The late Pope John Paul II was frequently criticised for the severity with which he dealt with the liberation movement.

      His main object was to stop the highly politicised form of liberation theology prevalent in the 1980s, which could be seen as a fusion of Christianity and Marxism. He was particularly criticised for the firmness with which he closed institutions that taught Liberation Theology and with which he removed or rebuked the movement’s activists, such as Leonardo Boff and Gustavo Gutierrez.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/beliefs/liberationtheology.shtml

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 22, 2011 at 9:06am

      Pope Benedict Rebukes Liberation Theology

      By Jay Richards
      March 15, 2010, 10:10 pm

      Apart from stressing how certain liberation theologians drew heavily upon Marxist concepts, the pope also described these ideas as “deceitful.” This is very strong language for a pope. But Benedict then underscored the damage that liberation theology did to the Catholic Church. “The more or less visible consequences,” he told the bishops, “of that approach—characterised by rebellion, division, dissent, offence and anarchy—still linger today, producing great suffering and a serious loss of vital energies in your diocesan communities.”

      http://blog.american.com/2010/03/pope-benedict-rebukes-liberation-theology/

      “538 Ad-Papal Rome begins reign
      1798 Ad-Papal Rome received head wound
      =1260 years

      Head wound of Rome was healed in Lateran Treaty 1929 Vatican becomes church and state, again.
      ”

      this is idiotic drivel…it means nothing, and proves nothing…..and you want me to email you and discuss this?? why would I want a deeper discussion with an obvious lunatic? you’re seriously unhinged, I would strongly urge you to get professional help before you hurt someone or yourself.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 22, 2011 at 9:09am

      “No actually it doesn’t prove anything other then Jews migrated to Poland and Poland had some good people. The Church/State mixing of 1260 years lead to many deaths in most European countries. Some factions fought it, others didn’t. It still happened. ”

      it proves your ASSertions about ‘when church and state mix they kill everyone who disagrees’ to be as moronic as all the other idiocy you post.

      Poland was catholic as hell…and it was there that the jews found refuge…..that would tell anyone who had an ounce of intelligence something, but its lost on you…

      I’m done casting pearls before swine.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on September 22, 2011 at 11:31am

      @nuke
      If you’re going to lie, you’re going to lose all credibility. Biochemistry is taught to those pursuing degrees in life sciences, not physical sciences. Even if you did take a biochemistry course (or two), it would have been for a non-major field of study elective. On top of that if you are pursuing or have obtained a higher degree, you wouldn‘t have taken a biochemistry course at all for your Master’s or PhD in Nuclear Physics unless you were specializing. I don‘t understand then why you wouldn’t have picked Biophysics. What is the topic of your research (i.e. – what do you write on the grants to get get funding)?

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 22, 2011 at 4:35pm

      Joe

      Anyone proclaiming to follow Jesus and then comes cursing is clearly not following Jesus. Your tongue speaks what is in your heart. 

      When God humbles you and knocks that smug arrogance out of you, you won’t be speaking like that and falsely speaking in His name. 

      If you actually wanted to have a friendly conversation, without insults and seeking truth, then ya I’d love to communicate thru email. Unfortunately, you have shown you are not capable of acting in that manner so I’d prefer that you not contact me until God sets you down, which is coming. 

      I hope your day is good and hope you find God soon along with manners and respect for your fellow humans. Take care. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
  • KingDawg
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:58am

    when he dies…..then he will regret his decisions…pray for him

    Report Post »  
    • joei234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 2:48pm

      No he won’t kingdouche. Your fairy tales are not the burdens of others, you flipping clown.

      Report Post » joei234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 3:00pm

      @joei234 your savior darwin is waiting for you in hell…..

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Cesium
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 3:48pm

      @king.. you assume there is an afterlife to regret in? That’s pretty wishful and if you hope for people to be suffering in the afterlife to support your own ego, that is the definition of evil. Bin Laden shares your views.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 3:53pm

      @cesium, stalin shares your views

      notice how cesium and joei234 are on the same page….

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joei234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 5:19pm

      joe1234, you and I are the same person, we just have a split personality. I am the good joe BTW. lolololol You flipping moron. Humanity and science will leave knuckle-draggers like you in the dust. We always have, joe-neanderthal.

      Report Post » joei234  
    • Cesium
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 5:43pm

      Stalin does not share my views on morality! Just as your witch burning relatives and the like don’t share my views on morality!

      I see you trying to suggest somehow I’m Joei1234 by evidence of us being on the same thread.. This is perfect. You will delude yourself and see whatever you want to see obviously. Way to think critically. You still assume I’m this left wing nut liberal too which is totally wrong.. but you believe what you want as truth…I voted for a republican house, Hopefully we get a republican in office to fix the economy as well which is more important than their religious views. Left wingers think i’m Right, Right wingers think I’m left, It just shows I think for myself unlike you who lets 2000 year old nuts think for you. You even use scientists like Gould who oppose your views on evolution to disprove evolution?!?! nice job.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 6:10pm

      @cesium…why not? you’re both atheists. and from your wacko rantings I have no doubt you have a ‘final solution’ in mind for christians..your hatred is so obvious.

      as far as you and joei234 being the same…even if you’re not the same person, you’re both wackos…fascists of a feather flock together….and its hard to tell one nut-case from another…

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Cesium
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 7:56pm

      ok great, now I’m a fascist too and want to kill christians. Are you serious? I’m an American Libertarian… I don’t love Ron Paul as much as his staunch followers but I agree with a lot of his views. I even partially agree with his views on abortion! bet you didn’t expect that from me! I think a society that enables it will negatively affect liberty but it should (and always will) be legal to those who decide (early within a couple month limit) on their own, with their families, and pay out of their own pocket, not from taxes. That is just to show I don’t think in black and white like you on the extreme-right or people on the nutty left who who want abortion made easy. But you made your own assumptions. Neither you nor a lefty can makes sense of an American libertarian. For one, we are all different yet share in free thinking unlike you, who is trapped by dogma. Another example for you, If up to me, the government would have no role in recognizing any marriages. If you’re gay, marry under your own organization and call it yourself. Everyone wants the same governments rights! and in the end everyone fights! I know for a fact you want the feds to ban gay marriage because you’re an easy read! What you don’t get is the fighting will go on and on forever now. You will never read me correct. Just as you cannot understand what truth is. Sure, first I’m a liberal, then I’m a fascist. wrroooong!

      Report Post »  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 8:49pm

      @Cesium

      Please ignore Joe. He does not speak for all of us who do believe in God. In Joe’s little brain he believes you believe as him or you are wrong even without factual proof and then insults to distract from not having any proof other then his small thought. 

      I apologize for someone proclaiming to be a believer speaking so negative and hateful to you. Most of us will hold a conversation respectfully and intelligently regardless of agreeing or disagreeing. Hope your nights good. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 8:57pm

      “ok great, now I’m a fascist too and want to kill christians. Are you serious?”

      yeah if the jack-boots fit….your hatred for christians is obvious…and we’ve all seen what happens when atheists get power…

      “I don’t love Ron Paul as much as his staunch followers but I agree with a lot of his views.”

      Ron Paul would abandon Israel…. very interesting….

      “That is just to show I don’t think in black and white like you on the extreme-right or people on the nutty left who who want abortion made easy”.

      yeah you moderates always talk like this… “@tangomike So you think it’s sky wizard magic? ” and of course issue threats to those you disagree with….I haven’t forgotten.

      “For one, we are all different yet share in free thinking unlike you, who is trapped by dogma”

      BWAHAHAHAHHA oh thats a good one..‘free thinking’ as long as it agrees with your racist bloodthirstly god darwin…..you don’t know how blind you are…the presumptuous arrogance so typical of the athiest darwiniac.

      .and I knew you’d be for gay marriage…you’re an easy read…same for polygamists and pedophiles getting married too…since they’re all just sexual orientations, and since you believe homosexuality is inborn and deserving special rights, then pedophilia is too….and of course you’ll protest that pedophilia is illegal….yeah homosexuality used to be illegal too…

      you wackos are SO predictable….

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 8:58pm

      @okie…oh yeah you’re real nice to other wackos…but a hate-filled bigot to real christians like me…I find your hypocrisy laughable and typical…..get some professional help, take the tin-foil off and get back on your meds….

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:10pm

      oh and gomer LIBERALS ARE FASCISTS.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:33pm

      Joe

      Jesus tells us to love our neighbors and treat others how we want to be treated. Cesium has shown no disrespect until you attacked. You do not speak like a believer or follower of Jesus. 

      Take care. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • joei234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 7:54am

      The proof is in. Joe1234 is an evil SOB, and Cesium is an intelligent, decent person. Just read through the posts here and you’ll see how obvious it is.

      Report Post » joei234  
    • joei234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 8:42am

      Look out…….Hillary will run.

      Report Post » joei234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 9:05am

      @okie…the last time I talked you sure didnt’ show me any love or respect..you holier-than-thou hypocrite.

      @joei234…I got you to post a real picture of yourself….BWAHAHAHAHA…..you’ve been played…LOSER

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • NukeHaze
      Posted on September 22, 2011 at 8:42am

      JOEl234 (NOT JOE 1 2 3 4):

      You are getting paid to be here and probably out of the last jobs package. Save everyone a bunch of grief and just fess up to it.

      You are painfully and clearly, apparently not an expert on religion of any kind especially anything Judeo-Christian. And, yes, that would include LDS expertise in which you are obviously lacking. You need to start by asking yourself, from what you can gather after sorting the rubbish out of your brain pan, what sequence of events would have taken place over time in the formation of the Sun, Earth, waters, land, vegetation, animals, and humans. You will likely find that in order for this sequence to have been recounted in Genesis several thousand years ago, some divine r unearthly influence must have had a conversation with Moses about it in order to deliver this information to him accurately reflecting what science has now apparently found (of course taking all the credit for discovery, uncovering what was already there, the truth, previously known to or by others). The sequence of events in Genesis is accurate even if curches don’t all agree on specific timelines. I ask you what the likelihood of Moses making such an accurate “guess” since that’s what you believe it to be if not mythology and being correct on just those simple things not even counting other things yet. Let‘s not move on so fast that you can’t accurately come to a resolution on any single debate point just like FireBrand, your cubicle farm ne

      Report Post »  
  • Xlugon Pyro
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:56am

    I think he’s an Atheist just because God gave him an ugly face. I know that‘d be a good enough reason to reject God’s existence for a lot of people.

    Report Post »  
  • Khedewia
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:56am

    Well, no one can say Richard is not a believer. He certainly believes in what he is doing. Now, someone just needs to write a book about the myth of Richard Dawkins. LOL

    Report Post »  
  • John2
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:55am

    The left needs to destroy the power of the Judeo-Christian belief system inorder for the Government to replace it with the Goverment (Pagan) belief system.

    Report Post »  
  • TEIN
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:50am

    Ok Dick Dawkins..here is a question I have asked time and time again, but have never received an answer….Within “The Magic of Reality” does an offspring lose or gain a pair of chromosomes to break off a new species?? Because as far as I know, when you breed chickens you get chickens. Darwin researched a way for variety to occur, but never, NEVER shows how one species spin from another.. If I am incorrect, please show me when and where, that a dog has been breed and instead of puppies, out come a lizard or some chromosomal changed evolution creature. That is what you are saying happened, happens, and will happen for new life to emerge…

    Report Post »  
    • GodHatesFigs
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:04am

      Sometimes chromosome are fused, as with chromosome 2 in humans. It sounds like you have just a basic understanding of evolution. I recommend visiting the website talkorigins dot org. It is pretty easy to navigate and it might answer some of the questions you have about evolution.

      Report Post » GodHatesFigs  
    • cgizzy
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:20am

      Thats something that people dont understand. There are essentially two parts of the “evolution” theory.

      The part that explains how variety occurs, ‘Survival of the fitist” is one part. And this revolves around the idea that animals with certain traits will fair better than animals with different traits. For instance, if its easier for a large beaked bird to break and eat the large seeds, but the little beaked bird can not break and eat the large seeds then the little beaked bird will die and the large beaked bird will live and reproduce. Over years the birds with the largest beak with continue to live and the rest will die leaving a new tyep of large beaked bird which will then go extinct when the seeds become small because their beaks are too big to grab the seeds. That part of evolution is true.

      The part that a species can create another species by the chromosomes chaning like in the idea that men and ape share an ancester, is baloney.

      Report Post »  
    • TEIN
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:49am

      GodHateFigs…I have much more of a basic understanding…Evolution ignores what has to happen with genetics…Big whoopee they get fused!! That would have to occur all the time, not just per chance. You would have to have the fuse happen thousands of times in one generation, because there has to be a mating pair come from all of this, they would have to be close enough in geographic region to find each other…then the possibility that their offspring surviving from such a mutation is almost nil… So, if I am so uneducated, please, PLEASE show me the success of an offspring of your more educated scenario… I will be waiting….

      Report Post »  
    • GodHatesFigs
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:54am

      I never called you uneducated. I never claimed I was more educated. From your statements, you seemed to lack a more full understanding of evolution. I was merely trying to direct you to information on the subject. You don’t always have to be such an anus.

      Report Post » GodHatesFigs  
    • Bad_Ashe
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 2:20am

      @TEIN – Please stop asking questions. There is no room for doubt amongst the worshippers of St. Darwin of the Galapagos.

      These are people who bitterly cling to their fruit flies and natural selection studies, even though a 25 year experiment to demonstrate speciation in fruit flies, that was once heralded in its scope, had failed miserably by the time it finally concluded last year, and even though Penn State and NIG released a study demonstrating that hundreds of studies in natural selection could be (and likely were) wrong. Yet they cling.

      After all, if you’re not with the followers of Evolution by (we think) Natural Selection….and Genetic Drift, and Biased Mutation….and…Gene Flow (that’s alot of “ands”) you are against them. You are the “other”.

      Report Post » Bad_Ashe  
  • mattmo79
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:49am

    Evolution is a joke. There is no concrete evidence on how creatures evolve. There is however, lots of therory and conjecture, but no real facts.

    Report Post » mattmo79  
    • TheCalvinistPastor
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:05am

      Just to forewarn you, a scientist will walk all over this statement. Be careful how you word things. To a scientist a “Theory” is a based on multiple tested facts. a Hypothesis is basically a best guess. So if you say that evolution is only a theory, they will laugh at that comment and agree since they belive its based on multiple facts

      Report Post » TheCalvinistPastor  
    • smithclar3nc3
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:07am

      Exactly, just because alot of scientist believe a theory it doesn’t take away the fact that it is just a theory and not concrete fact. I saw a comedian that put it best ‘IF WE EVOLVED FROM MONKEYS WHY ARE THERE STILL MONKEYS?
      Think about the concensus of AUW and the new evidence that shows heat is escaping at a much greater rate and not being trapped by CO2 as the scientist were so settled on.

      Report Post »  
    • kryss187
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:18am

      Wow…A theory is an explanation based on FACT. it take a very long time and allot of evidence before a theory is written. Then it goes under a massive pier review before published. The further scrutiny before excepted. It is always questioned and either updated or retired based on new evidence when found. I dont understand how people can’t understand this.

      Report Post »  
    • GodHatesFigs
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:26am

      @SMITHCLAR3NC3
      Because we didn’t evolve from monkeys. Monkeys and humans share a common ancestor. You should check out talkorigins dot org if you are interested more in the facts behind the theory of evolution.

      Report Post » GodHatesFigs  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:44am

      so tell us what this common ancestor is…name it…since you‘re SO ’scientific’

      you cannot, its just a statement of faith.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • beckisnuts.
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:14am

      Matmo, religion is the joke, and it‘s a big one that’s all on you believers.

      Report Post »  
    • smithclar3nc3
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 12:25pm

      KRYSS,
      Theory is a theory because of the lack of fact. See the theorize is the guess based on precieve evidence and in Darwin’s case ideology. Darwin was an atheist and hated religion a FACT(not theory) he confessed after his daughter’s death. Is It any wonder he would search out and grasp any straws to disprove Religion. As he despised it.
      The fact that nature has a balance and that animals can adapt could be argued as intelligent design just as easy as evolution. One could argue that a super being set the wheels in motion and some atheist could and mostly likely would if you replaced God with extraterrestrial.
      Here’s my theory based in facts Bigfoot like creatures have never been captured because they are aliens who use earth as a temperary nudist colony. It‘s as belivable as evolution people have seen bigfoot and UFO’s but neither have been captured. It‘s the only logical conclusion just like the big bang or evolution or creation it can neither be proven or disproven it’s just a matter of where your faith lies.

      Report Post »  
    • Arr-dey
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 2:25am

      A scientific theory is a group of observations supported by data, and having predictive value. Gravity is not a scientific fact – it is a theory, just like evolution.

      Report Post »  
    • smithclar3nc3
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 7:32am

      ARR-DEY,
      Gravity started out as a theory by Issac Newton it is now a proval fact. Newton theory on the effect of gravity however have been disproven as we now know air mass, and the shape of objects can counter gravitational pull.

      Report Post »  
    • Arr-dey
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 8:39am

      When scientists talk about gravity, they discuss the Theory of Gravity, not the Fact of Gravity. It is a theory for the same reason that evolution is a theory. It is information, supported by data, and having predictive value. You can use mathematics that describes gravitational force to calculate the trajectory of a planet or asteroid, for example, or to determine when to launch a satellite so it will go into orbit where you want it.

      The Theory of Gravity (TOG) is like any scientific theory, provisional. If something comes along that defies the TOG, then scientists will begin to look for other information to add to their theory or look for other information entirely.

      That is the impetus behind the search for a “Theory of Everything” – the theory of gravity does not apply at the sub-atomic level, physicists use quantum mechanics instead. That does not make sense, so physicists are looking for some way to unify those two. String Theory, now “M” Theory (I think) are two options that have had some play recently but I don’t know how the work there is going.

      That is part of the justification for the super-collider in Cern.

      Report Post »  
    • smithclar3nc3
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:47am

      ARR,
      In astro-physic gravity is still in it theory phase.
      How ever here on earth where garvity and restistance is proven and tested it’s refered as gravitional principles not theory.
      See the effect of planetary pull based on mass,rotation,curviture,vacuum and a other varibles is never been tested to the point where all imformation is known. It’s all theory that needs testing
      DO YOU GET IT.
      understand the language why and how it’s used
      Theory An assumption based on limited information or knowledge
      Fact Knowledge or information based on real occurrences
      And even if there is a broad acceptance of a theory it hardly constitutes FACT.
      Theory and fact are hardly interchangeable therir means are as different than night and day.

      Report Post »  
    • Arr-dey
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 6:04pm

      Nope, it is always the Theory of Gravity. You accept it as fact because of its predictive value. I would wager you have never had anything “go up” that didn’t “come down.” That is what you expect from a well-grounded theory that explains things well.

      That is not to say that the TOG will not be replaced later with a more correct explanation. It is the best we have for now, and it works pretty well except at the sub-atomic level. There you switch to quantum mechanics.

      That in itself indicates there is more to the story – the rules we use to explain a physical object’s behavior in the universe should be universal (ha, that’s funny.)

      Report Post »  
    • Howyinthehills
      Posted on September 22, 2011 at 1:43am

      Many of the comments pro and con on Dawkins and his new endeavour seem disconnected from one another. There appears to be a great confusion on what arguments are valid for and against almost everything imaginable. so I will add a few details.
      Genesis has the birds of the air preceeding the fishes of the sea. The record of the fossils has the fishes of the sea preceeding the birds of the air by long periods of geological time.
      Entropy applies to a closed system over its total “energy lifetime” within that lifetime portions of the system can increase energy at the expense of other portions of the system. an animal is not a closed system, it is constantly acquiring new energy input from outside itself.
      To talk of something outside of the universe is meaningless. The word “universe” means everything that exists or has existed including pre big bang or pre creation if those be your particular shibboleths. It is like the universal set in mathematics, relationships used between sets inside that set do not apply to the universal set itself. Inside and outside, before and after apply to things within the universe, not to the universe itself.
      Finally, many of our discussions are philosophical, not scientific. Science is one branch of philosophy as is logic. The branch of philosophy dealing with the nature of reality is metaphysics. If you wish your beliefs to be taken seriously, start with “what is the nature of reality & how do I know it and what validates it.”
      Back to

      Report Post » Howyinthehills  
  • Xlugon Pyro
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:48am

    Interesting.

    Because children need help learning evolution which is the sole origin ideology taught in most schools.

    Report Post »  
    • HKS
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:53am

      I would just call them snake oil salesman. Anything can be sold to someone, somewhere.

      Report Post » HKS  
  • GENEPAGLIARI
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:46am

    There is time for him to change. We all did at some time or other.

    Report Post »  
    • TennesseeConservative
      Posted on September 22, 2011 at 9:36am

      Thats right, I was shown my ultra ignorance and utter doom, by the Grace of GOD. GOD chooses whom he wants. No matter how stupid we are. But as we say here in Tennessee, all yall are fixin to find out. The great All Mighty Sovereign does what HE wants, when He wants, if HE wants. Is that not what the name infers? Who else can say that? Dawkins cancer man. Soon you will see for yourself, Repent and believe. Abandon your insanity Fool.

      Report Post » TennesseeConservative  
  • MammalOne
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:46am

    Honestly, I don’t see the big deal. Christians have made thousands of children‘s books telling children that God is real and evolution isn’t. Now that an atheist makes a book telling children the opposite, it’s an outrage? (see: double standard)

    Report Post » MammalOne  
    • Hanny
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:54am

      I agree… even though I don’t agree with him. I see a huge problem in double standard these days. We can’t win with that.

      Report Post » Hanny  
    • TheCalvinistPastor
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:17am

      I agree, I believe that there should be multiple opinions out there to make an educated decision. I think the problem is when parents only equip the child with ONE worldview. By the time they hit middle school or high school, they are being challenged and dont know how to respond.

      Report Post » TheCalvinistPastor  
    • drhopkins
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 12:20pm

      The only problem I have with Evolutionists and Atheists is that they claim science indisputable when the real truth is it takes just as much faith to believe their “answers” as it does anyone else’s. If they admitted their beliefs were religious in nature (the absence of Religion IS a Religion) then I would be fine with it. I would be fine with them producing a children’s book like this. But that is not the position they present or are allowed. That is the imbalance and the problem.

      Report Post » drhopkins  
    • paulusmaximus
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:42pm

      The difference is the stand of allowing as fact a premiss base on opinion, I have no problem with honest debate I also know my opinion is based on my interpretation of the facts OF SCIENCE. I also have a opinion on the title of his book it sounds like a title I would have used in the fifth grade. A so called genius’s best shot?!

      Report Post » paulusmaximus  
  • joe1234
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:46am

    just more proof that evolution is nothing more than atheism posing as science.

    Report Post » joe1234  
    • joei234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 9:35am

      Wrong again evil one. Science is real, religion is myth.

      Report Post » joei234  
    • Arr-dey
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 6:08pm

      How do you account then for Francis Collins support of the theory of evolution? He is a respected scientist and a christian.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 8:01pm

      arrday…there are always quislings aren’t there now?

      of course evolution is nothing more than atheism….as the evolutionists freely admit…

      Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent.”

      Provine, William B. [Professor of Biological Sciences, Cornell University], “, “Evolution: Free will and punishment and meaning in life”, Abstract of Will Provine’s 1998 Darwin Day Keynote Address.

      Report Post » joe1234  
  • Glenn is Right
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:46am

    As long as there is Sunday School teaching children about God, I don’t have a problem with an opposing point of view.

    Any arguemnet against this book can also be argued against Youth ministries.

    If there is trueth in Religion, there should be no concern about Atheism.

    Report Post » Glenn is Right  
  • 65Mustang
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:45am

    I would pray for this man but I am too busy to pray for someone who doesn‘t stand a chance to ever enter a place he doesn’t believe in…heaven. Sorry about all the people he is tragically trying to influence.

    Report Post »  
  • Ghostrider
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:45am

    Again the left, attacks the Christian faith and trys to explain existence by the religion of evolution. Which is unprovable, bad theory, but now it is a religion to the left. Ask one to explain if evolution was a fact, then why don’t we see people that are in stages of another form, animals in another form, birds with 4 wings, or two heads, fish with some other form. They cannot. The fossil record they expouse is also a myth. They do not want to admit that God does exist, the cannot come to terms that they are not a little god running around. They refuse to accept Jesus because they do not want to see their sins. No evolution is bad theory, bad science, and a bad religion.

    Report Post »  
    • Red1492
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:52am

      Don’t like it? Don’t buy it. It’s no more of an attack on christianity than christian books are attacks on atheists. Everyone has an opinion. You don’t have to purchase the book if you agree with the material. It‘s the same reason I don’t purchase pornography.

      Report Post » Red1492  
    • MammalOne
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:53am

      I can‘t explain all of the fallacies in your understanding of evolution in 1500 characters other than say you simply don’t understand the theory of evolution (and there’s a difference between evolution and theories regarding the emergence of life). In fact, you don’t seem to even understand how science works. It’s not a collection of facts but of theories that are iteratively changed as new experimental evidence emerges. I would suggest actually learning about evolutionary theory or just stop talking about something you clearly know nothing about. Thanks.

      Report Post » MammalOne  
    • Ghostrider
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:04am

      Red, no worries there. However, the left, athesist are ALWAYS on the attack against Christians. It continues to this hour. Christians do not attack them. They attempt to convert them, but no attacks. At least as far as I know. Remember, it was the left who got prayer out of schools and are on a relentless attack against anything Christian, including Christmas. No mention of Christmas, Jesus, God. No Christmas break, no Easter break. It’s now winter break, spring break. Can’t have a nativity set up. Where do you see Christians attacking them with sayings like, no can’t believe what you want here? It’s not a matter of me buying it, it is a matter of schools putting it out. And last time I looked, I was an American, I do still have the right to voice my concerns.

      Report Post »  
    • biohazard23
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:12am

      I can’t look at Dawkins with a straight face after seeing the entire “I’m a Monkey” episode of South Park.

      http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155360/im-a-monkey

      Report Post » biohazard23  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:38am

      mammalone,

      I trad his post several times and I do not see where he has any misunderstanding on the theory of evolution? He actually asks a great question, why do we not see MORE diverse life-forms? If evolution is true then should we not all look like X-Men? Some of us with wings, some with gills, some with 6 legs…You get my meaning. Why are we all still basically alike? Why are ALL species of animals so similar to one another? This organization alone disproves amoeba to man evolution and you do not like that.

      So instead of refuting it you turn to personal attack. We are all just ignorant flat-earthers because we will not drink your kool-aide. You have nothing to say so you have to make your opponent look ignorant. The ignorance belongs to you! You show me evolution…and I do not mean adaptation by the loss of genetic information…then I might start listening to your delusions.

      Report Post »  
    • weeblewacker1
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:03am

      hmmm,once again,what would be the survival advantage of having “two heads”? or 4 wings? and,whats the deal about fish in another form? have you ever seen the diversity in fish? just go to your local pet store and take a look whats in the aquariums! then you say this:The fossil record they expouse is also a myth. the fossil record is a myth? wow!! have you ever been to a museum of natural history? have you ever reached down and looked at a rock that you can find anywhere and seen the fossils in it? i suppose your one of those that thinks people where around when they roamed the earth,and man rode them around like horses? at least i can see prove of the fossil record everyday! the tea-party just loves the ignorant!

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:12am

      @weeblewacker1 that fossil record doesn’t show evolution, rather creation…

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Arr-dey
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 2:29am

      Dear Zeus, how many things are wrong with this paragraph?

      Change is gradual, and takes time. The time is based on the reproduction rate of the organism. One of my favorite examples: Greenish warblers – http://www.zoology.ubc.ca/~irwin/GreenishWarblers.html

      Report Post »  
  • orion1958
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:45am

    He is wrong and he will have a sad live as most atheist are. They are not happy people. He will most likely have a worm spot to spend all of time.

    Report Post » orion1958  
    • InversionTheory
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:19am

      The only sad part of my life as an atheist is the constant barrage by people of faith insisting I must be miserable (I’m not, it’s quite satisfying to only be responsible to myself and my ideals), a leftist (nope, Classical Liberal), a communist (nope, libertarian leaning to anarchocapitalism) or that I simply haven’t tried a life of faith (patently false, but most detractors won’t believe me when I say that).

      My parents didn’t indoctrinate me to be an atheist, what they taught me was to always ask questions and to never be satisfied with “because I said so” as an answer. Dad was a Lutheran who later became a Deist and Mom was a Lutheran who later became a lapsed Methodist.

      I personally studied the Bible for 3 years before moving to studying early Christian history. There’s nothing there that is as compelling as answers I can question and I am even encouraged to tear apart the answers of science (that’s how you get better answers in science).

      I will cheer if evolution is overturned by a better explanation, something that explains the natural world better is a huge step forward. But enshrining the beliefs of ancient people’s who had no other explanation than God for…well…everything, doesn’t lead to better answers.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:32am

      evolution will never be overturned, because no matter what the data says, it supports evolution…

      seems that this latest study is just adding to our knowledge of the functions of the appendix. And what is the response from the Darwinists? In the words of Brandeis University biochemistry professor Douglas Theobald, “It makes evolutionary sense.” Oh really?

      Dr. Theobald happens to have authored the notorious TalkOrigins’ “29+ Evidences for Macroevolution“ where he claims that the appendix is a ”vestige of our herbivorous ancestry” whose lack of a robust function provides evidence for macroevolution (he admits that the appendix may have “a function of some sort” but contends this is a vestige of its once-important function). But now that we’ve found robust function for the appendix, Dr. Theobald claims, “It makes evolutionary sense.”

      http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/10/for_decades_darwinists_have_be.html#more

      thats ‘evolutionary thinking’ for ya….

      evolution is nothing more than atheist faith.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • cgizzy
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:44am

      InversionTheory, I used to be an atheist, for a long time I was. I had the same exact thought as you did. However, I was raised in a southern baptist home and the strength of my families religious beliefes were what really pushed me away. I spent many years learning about different religions, even christianity. About 2 years ago, a lot was happening and somehow my brain reasoned that god did exist. I now believe strongly in god, but you wont catch me near any organized religion or church (I still have a bad taste in my mouth left over from growing up).

      As to evolution, there are certain parts of it agree whole heartedly do exist. Other parts of it, are lacking in substantial evidence. And I dont think god and evolution or science have to be seperate. To me, god created everything in a certain order and gave us the brains to be able to learn and figure it out. That doesnt mean he made it easy to figure out. I‘d like to think he’s sitting back laughing at how idiotic our fights about evolution are, all the while he‘s thinking we’ll never know the answer for a few more hundred years.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:52am

      cgizzy unfortunately our fights about evolution are deadly serious…evolution gave us the eugenics movement, which led to the gas chambers…..marx thought evolution provided his theory ‘scientific’ evidence…

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • cgizzy
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 11:01am

      Joe, Too true. And it’s a atrocious how people could believe or justify such movements.

      Report Post »  
    • Arr-dey
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 8:43am

      Evolution is neither evil nor good. It is like anything else generated by science, it can be put to any use a person can imagine – atomic bombs anyone?

      Evolution just is, like gravity is. We as people are responsible for how we use information provided by scientific discoveries.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:31am

      actually arr-day evolution is evil as hell…eugenics came from evolution…

      A direct line runs from Darwin, through the founder of the eugenics movement-Darwin’s cousin, Francis Galton-to the extermination camps of Nazi Europe.” (Brookes, Martin.,”Ripe old age,“ Review of ”Of Flies, Mice and Men,” by Francois Jacob, Harvard University Press, 1999. New Scientist, Vol. 161, No. 2171, 30 January 1999, p.41).

      and its racist as hell….why don‘t you list the ’lower races’ your savior darwin refers to…

      “The more civilized so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of the lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilised races throughout the world.” (Darwin, Charles R. [English naturalist and founder of the modern theory of evolution], “The Life of Charles Darwin”, [1902], Senate: London, 1995, reprint, p.64).

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Arr-dey
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 6:14pm

      I disagree about the theory of evolution being evil. It is the same as the germ theory of disease, or atomic theory. It is neither evil, nor good. The application of the theory can be described as evil or good.

      Why do you keep carping on Darwin’s racism? I agree, his view of non-white people was horrific, and in fact, typical of most Europeans at that time. Here in the U.S. we enslaved Africans, justifying with passages from the bible that describe how to treat slaves.

      That does not change the truth and beauty of the theory he described in his book.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 7:28pm

      hate to tell you, but evolution is RACIST as a theory…why do you think the very title of your bible is:

      On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life

      so which are the favoured races? hmmm?? your slavish defense of your faith is just laughable, and shows that evolution isn’t science to you, its your religion.

      since, according to evolution, the races evolved in isolation, one has to be superior to the others…little wonder which one darwin thought was superior….hell even Gould had the guts to admit the truth….

      “Biological arguments for racism may have been common before 1859, but they increased by orders of magnitude following the acceptance of evolutionary theory.” Stephen Jay Gould,
      1.Stephen Jay Gould, Ontogeny and Phylogeny (Cambridge, Mass: Harvard University Press, 1977), p. 127.

      and Watson, illustrated EVOLUTIONARY RACISM…

      Watson is credited with discovering the double helix along with Maurice Wilkins and Francis Crick in 1962.
      In the newspaper interview, he said there was no reason to think that races which had grown up in separate geographical locations should have evolved identically. He went on to say that although he hoped everyone was equal, “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true”.

      straight from the theory of evolution…and then lets talk about eugenics and the gas chambers…

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 7:30pm

      “justifying with passages from the bible that describe how to treat slaves.”

      oh of course…but I thought you atheists said we weren’t a christian nation..but a secular one…so which is it? oh yeah the country is ‘christian’ when you talk about slavery, but atheist in everything else…the hypocrisy of you atheists and intellectual dishonesty is pathetic.

      you can thank Christianity for freeing the slaves….I don’t know of any atheist abolitionists do you?? WILBERFORCE anyone??

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Arr-dey
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 10:28pm

      You are not talking about the theory, you are talking about its application by imperfect people who have their own clear (in hindsight) biases. What do you think your great-great-grandchildren will think of your attitudes? I hope you’re not egotistical enough to think that your every word will be enshrined in some library of blog-topia.

      The claims of people being of different abilities or intelligence because of their race has been debunked. It is a non-starter.

      That’s what science does. Sometimes slowly. Pull data, performs tests, examine results and draw conclusions. The problem is that we are talking about people here, not the theory of evolution. People bring their own biases to the table – see Watson, a brilliant scientist, but blind in this respect.

      Over time attitudes change, things are re-evaluated and things get better, human society makes progress.

      I did not say anything about whether “we” are a christian nation. I mentioned using the bible to justify slavery as an example. Do you accept slavery as an acceptable practice? I doubt the answer is yes. Using the bible to justify slavery is the same thing as using Darwin’s book to justify racism. My point is that any philosophy, religion, lifestance, whatever vocabulary word you want to use, can be mis-applied to do bad things.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 22, 2011 at 8:52am

      I am talking about the theory itself….the theory states that groups that exist in isolation evolve at different rates….thats evolution…thats racist as hell…get a clue.

      this has nothing to do with what someone does with the theory, racism is embedded into the theory, just as eugenics is….

      “‘Social Darwinism’ is often taken to be something extraneous, an ugly concretion added to the pure Darwinian corpus after the event, tarnishing Darwin’s image. But his notebooks make plain that competition, free trade, imperialism, racial extermination, and sexual inequality were written into the equation from the start- ‘Darwinism’ was always intended to explain human society.” (Desmond, Adrian [Science historian, University College, London] & Moore, James [Science historian, The Open University, UK], “Darwin,” [1991], Penguin: London, 1992, reprint, pp.xix).

      I mean seriously how much of a lap dog are you for darwin?

      and no using the bible to justify slavery is NOT the same thing as using evolution to justify racism…slavery in the bible was far different than what we think of as slavery in our country….it wasn’t based upon race…for example…

      He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.” (Exodus 21:16)

      the slavery in our country directly contradicts the bible…whereas racism and eugenics are at the heart of evolution…..eugenics is just applied evolutionl

      Report Post » joe1234  
  • listeninginVT
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:45am

    ‘the wisdom of man is foolishness with God’ —enough said.

    Report Post »  
  • Mandors
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:44am

    “I am almost pathologically afraid of indoctrinating children,” he says

    That’s exactly what you ARE doing!

    I’m not a creationist but there are plenty of holes in the our current “understanding” of evolution. Starting first and foremost with how human beings supposedly evolved. The out of Africa notion is most likely false.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050328174826.htm

    Report Post » Mandors  
  • javasport
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:44am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl1MClbdCj0&feature=grec_index

    Report Post »  
  • TomFerrari
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:42am

    Complete?

    Splain where matter came from to me one more time.
    .
    .
    .
    FAITH !

    Report Post » TomFerrari  
    • NHwinter
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:48am

      There is no way possible that anyone could convince me that the complexity of every living thing just happened or evolved. What an empty, sad person he is!

      Report Post » NHwinter  
    • MammalOne
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:59am

      NHWinter – you don’t believe that the complexity of the universe “just happened”? That’s what the bible tells us. God was sitting around and one day BOOM the universe just happened.

      Report Post » MammalOne  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:32am

      Ferrari, they have no explanation for it, especially since it’s true that spontaneous generation was disproved over 120 years ago. As Former Nobel Prize winner evolutionist and Biologist from Harvard said (paraphrasing), “There are 2 possibilities for life. 1. Spontaneous generation leading to evolution. 2. A divine act of God.” He further stated that since spontaneous generation had died with the finding of Pasteur and others, there was only 1 solution. That God created life, BUT, because he didn’t want to believe in God, he chose to continue forward in that which he knew for certain was wrong. People who stick with Darwin already know that uniformity was a pack of useless lies, and the punctuated equilibrium of Gould just another theory that’s impossible to prove. Gould changed scientific truths definition to being whatever the top scientific minds decided was true, regardless of the absence of facts.

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
    • trolltrainer
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 10:51am

      Mammalone one, sorry to pick on you,, but you write:

      “NHWinter – you don’t believe that the complexity of the universe “just happened”? That’s what the bible tells us. God was sitting around and one day BOOM the universe just happened.”

      ————————————————————————————

      That is simply not true. It did not just happen while God looked on. God CREATED it. Intelligently. This intelligence is obvious throughout creation and cannot be explained as pure chance or accident. This again goes back to your response to another post asking why we do not see everything mutated. Differing numbers of appendages, cross-species, nothing following lines and patterns of taxonomic rank.

      God CREATED.

      Report Post »  
    • ChadCottle
      Posted on September 21, 2011 at 12:40am

      God created everything? Then what created god? And what created whatever created the thing that created god?

      Report Post »  
  • Gonzo
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:42am

    That one will be under every leftist’s winter solstice tree this year!

    Report Post » Gonzo  
    • vennoye
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 1:40pm

      Sad, but true! Is looking like belief in the “Theory of evolution” is going to be a SERIOUS misconception!!

      Report Post » vennoye  
  • db321
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:41am

    We will soon be see this fool in a field eating grass on all fours.

    Report Post » db321  
  • rab3
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:40am

    How we know what’s really true? So he has proven the negative that God does not exist.

    Report Post »  
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:46am

      That guy needs to recall there were times when “scientists” were convinced the earth was flat; that there are architectual achievements of the ancients we have no idea how they did it, with proof right in front of them and declaring it impossible and still “there it is…”

      First rule of energy I learned in science — “Energy can neither be created or destroyed, it can only be changed.” i.e. solid to liquid to gas, and the like.

      So if energy cannot be created or destroyed; then where did it come from in the first place?

      I wish he would answer that one — did energy simply “evolve” from something else? how did it come about then, for if it cannot be created or destroyed and was eternal, then how is that possible?

      One simple answer “God.”

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
  • johnconnersmom
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:39am

    WHAT!?!? INDOCTRINATION!?!?
    Hopefully he goes the way of Al Gore when his hypocrisy is discovered….

    Report Post »  
    • rab3
      Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:43am

      His knee will bow and his tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and it may burn in his mouth after he says it.

      Report Post »  
  • IvanK
    Posted on September 20, 2011 at 9:37am

    On his day of reckoning, He will have some ‘splainin to do!

    Report Post » IvanK  
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