Media

S.E. Cupp Defends Bachmann on MSNBC: Media Hype Over Clinic Intended to ‘Make Her Look Scary’

S.E. Cupp Defends Bachmann on MSNBC: Media Hype Over Clinic Intended to Make Her Look ScaryOn Tuesday, conservative pundit S.E. Cupp appeared on Martin Bashir’s MSNBC show to discuss the controversy surrounding Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann and her husband Dr. Marcus Bachmann’s clinic.

While stating her belief that reparative therapy (a controversial measure used in treating homosexual patients) is “junk science,” Cupp defends Bachmann and claims that the media is seizing upon this story as a distraction intended to make the presidential candidate look “scary.” She says:

“I think this makes for a really perfectly-timed story. When everyone else is talking about the economy and it’s really hard to make her look dumb, let’s make her look scary. So then the media starts to look for these kooky, quirky, religious social issues stories…Because they can‘t talk about her positions on the economy because they’re better than Obama’s would be.”

Bashir, though, argues that Cupp‘s statements about the media aren’t fair. But, Cupp stands her ground. In addressing her junk science remark, she says it’s not fair to “implicate 80 percent of the population which is Christian, who believe that homosexuality is a sin as crazy and kooky and extreme.” Cupp continues, attempting to differentiate between those who would call reparative therapy junk science and those who adhere to their faith:

If you are a Christian who believes like she does, that homosexuality is a sin, creationism is the story of how we all got here, then I don’t think you would call it junk science, I think you would call that, you know, Scripture, Christianity.

Watch the dialogue below (starts around 8:00):

(h/t Newsbusters)

Comments (221)

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  • dthej
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:01am

    try to imagine the press calling the lefts position on homosexuality “controversial” …have you noticed that it’s only called this when it comes from a conservative? Like S.E. said 80% of the country claims to be Christian so shouldn’t the lefts position be considered controversial being in the minority?
    outside of “marriage equality” a religious institution, what is it the media and homosexuals want? Simply put they want their lifestyle accepted the same as heterosexuals … They say they want acceptance from Christians but refuse to accept the Christian view that it’s wrong..so i ask who is it that is intolerant?

    Report Post »  
    • justafollower
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:39am

      I love S.E. Cupp. nuff said.

      Report Post » justafollower  
    • JRook
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:41am

      If you are a Christian who believes like she does, that homosexuality is a sin, creationism is the story of how we all got here, then I don’t think you would call it junk science, I think you would call that, you know, Scripture, Christianity. Talk about validating the opposing point.

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    • Gonzo
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 10:08am

      It’s not going to get any better dthej, it’s only going to get worse. That’s OK though when the truth is on our side!

      Report Post » Gonzo  
    • saranda
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 10:34am

      With 80% of America being Christian, why then are we seriously considering putting a former tax collector in the White House? Her only job outside politics has been to get more tax dollars out of taxpayers. How does TEA reconcile that?

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    • BoiseBaked
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 10:37am

      Oh what scandal – praying with gay people who don’t want to be gay anymore… Unbelievable! It’s coming, it’s just around the corner – a law to enforce politically correct prayer. Sick!

      Report Post »  
    • JRook
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 10:41am

      So where are all stories about Bachmann’s superior positions on the issues? Enough already with the Palin, O’donnell, Angle, they aren’t treating her fair stuff. Get people fired up for a lot of nothing. About we move on to some substance here.

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    • urrybr
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 11:01am

      Exactly! The wicked take the truth to be hard. They feel guilty, so if they can get everyone in the world to think that their behaviour is normal, and right . . . their guilt is assuaged.

      Report Post » urrybr  
    • jimay
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 11:01am

      The interviewer looks stupid because he isn’t actually listening to her replies to his questions.

      Report Post »  
    • Blackhawk1
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 11:06am

      saranda

      Too bad she didn’t go after Tim the Tax Cheat and put him in jail. Any bets most of the tax collecting she did was on liberals? Someone honest had to do it.

      Report Post » Blackhawk1  
    • chazman
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 2:28pm

      S.E. Cupp is cute … did I say that I despise MSPMS lately? Well, I do.

      Report Post »  
    • THE-FINAL-ACT
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 3:37pm

      Homosexuality is a abomination.

      Report Post » THE-FINAL-ACT  
    • Clive
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 3:44pm

      To say that all christians are creationists is ret@rded. Even the pope has said creationism and evolution are not mutually exclusive beliefs systems. Also, plenty of christians support gay marriage as well.

      PS. SE cupp is hot.

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    • ShotgunB
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 5:30pm

      Hey JROOK- It’s the liberal media who wants to talk about these fringe issues, because they can’t win a debate about substantive issues! The economy? ” What economy, Bachmann wants to pray the gay away!” At least she will stand for something, unlike that mush in the White House that would change his mind over and over again for political gain (SPINELESS JELLYFISH)!

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    • Chet Hempstead
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 6:39pm

      Part of the controversy comes from the fact that Marcus Bachmann lied about whether he employed this kind of therapy. The Bachmanns would be in a much less embarrassing position if he had been fhonest and defended his own practices instead of leaving it up to S.E Cupp and others to do damage control. The fact that he has still failed to do so makes me suspect that the claims that he has used this therapy on kids whose parents want them to change whether the patient wants it or not are may be true. That would be a serious ethical problem. Since homosexuality is no longer considered an illness by the medical community, trying to “cure” it for any reason other than that it’s what the patient himself wants is brain-washing and could leave the patient much worse off than if he had just been left alone.

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    • 4blackhorses
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 7:13pm

      An interesting comparision, homosexuality and the media wanting approval from Christians. Does the medias want approval for which they know what they know is wrong in their actions?

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  • fortyshooter
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:59am

    If media want to know what‘s going on in the clinic they should ask someone who’s been released. Then, if the patient wants to tell about his experiences, he or she can. But a clinic or hospital has no obligation to explain or reveal its therapy to liberal newsmedia. Personally, I have no interest in helping homosexuals out of their maladies, but if the Bachmann’s want to do it and it is legal, then go for it.

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    • sWampy
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:01am

      If you don’t want to be treated to cure your homosexuality why would you go there. Those that follow these gay rights morons without questioning are going to end up like the ones that followed the gays that brought Hitler to power, they will end up being executed for war crimes.

      Report Post »  
  • Islesfordian
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:52am

    one responce to Bashir would be to point out that a large percentage of Pychology is junk science. They gave us shock therapy and lobotomies as “solutions” to mental problems. How many people have been cured through pschoanalysis? These clowns mix medical science with a dash of counceling filtered through their own philosophy and call it science.

    Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • vanhook99
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 10:07am

      That is an excellent point. The conversation could go as follows: Cupp might ask, “So you believe whatever an expert tells you?” Bashir: “Of course not.” Cupp: “So why are you assuming, then, based solely on opinion that Buchamans have heinously erred?” Bashir: “It isn’t solely opinion; it is science.” Cupp: “You’ve only referred to the opinion of a group of people so far.” Bashir: “Credible scientists.” Cupp: “So you admit then that you don’t know for sure about this you are just taking the word of others?” With liberals NEVER assume what they assume and you’ll win debates with them more often. They are good at framing the debate–don’t play in their game; play yours.

      Report Post »  
    • JRook
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 11:55am

      Wait she joined GB.com. How convenient that the Blaze would reference her. Geez this is what biased news operations have provided us with. Cycled news with each component referencing the other. Really sad.

      Report Post »  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 1:00pm

      @jrook
      Pretty common practice. Have you ever visited HuffPo/Politico/The Atlantic. Even worse are Engadget/Gizmodo/Gawker.

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • JRook
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 5:20pm

      @Firebrand thanks for agreeing. It is indeed sad regardless of which bias and slant people choose. That is the point, that is the real problem in the country now. People don‘t want the news they want it presented in a manner that reinforces their ideology and vilifies those who don’t agree with them.

      Report Post »  
    • jeff.cooper
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 6:18pm

      @JRook
      And are you under the impression that TheBlaze.com is unbiased and offers pure journalism? Or are you simply being sarcastic?

      Perhaps you should read http://www.theblaze.com/about/ – you will find nothing that states readers will get unbiased commentary and analysis, nor will you find a statement that TheBlaze.com won’t link stories or reference S.E. to push a bias. Why do you find it a problem that people get their information from sources that reinforce their existing opinions? Should one be forced to watch unbiased news just for the sake of it being unbiased? Should one be forced to watch news from “the other side” in order to get a balanced story? Or should one simply be able to choose what they desire to watch while shutting out the whining of others about a perceived bias?

      Report Post » jeff.cooper  
    • Chet Hempstead
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 6:20pm

      You are correct that much of what we think we know about psychology is wrong, but this is to be expected. It’s only been a real science for a couple of hundred years. Look at how much we still diidn’t know about Physics or Medicine when people had been studying them for over a thousand years.

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  • TerryJ70
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:46am

    I thought S.E. handled herself very well. I like her passion.
    Incidentally, he should have been asked the same question on “junk science” of all the global warming followers. I suspect he would have a different view of that.

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  • gbtv4free
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:45am

    Why should you miss out on vital information because of a tight budget when you can get GBTV for free? Look for info that will keep you in the loop during these end times in the days ahead.

    Report Post » gbtv4free  
  • aprilsINflorida
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:45am

    Smart girl…she didn’t let him have his gotcha moment!!!!

    Report Post »  
    • JRook
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 10:28am

      What is smart about an obvious spin and diversion. M. Bachmann‘s less than forthright responses regarding the operations of a clinic that she is part owner of don’t make here look scary, they make her look like another Christine O’donnell or Sharon Angle. Someone who is being handled or managed by her campaign team in order to present her as more electable. Like the other two M. Bachmann got attention for some off the wall statements and conservative religious statements that won’t play well with the broader electorate. So now she is trying to rewrite and deflect. Such half truths and selective ignorance regarding the actions of the clinic are particularly damaging given that she presents herself as being on higher moral ground. Plays well in Iowa though.

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    • dcart888
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 10:35am

      What‘s funniest is I bet MSDNC didn’t realize she is an Athiest not a Christian.

      Report Post » dcart888  
    • Bluebonnet
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 10:41am

      She is very bright and knows how to use it. Bashir is an un-creditable man in all his reporting and story telling. Don’t like him, will never like him. Don’t like Michael Jackson, but I still think Bashir did some dirty reporting on him after acting like they were friends & buddies. Don’t trust anything from him.

      Report Post »  
    • paulusmaximus
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 4:05pm

      You know the trolls like jrock won’t allow replies to their stupid remarks but they sure use up a lot of others to make stupid remarks

      Report Post » paulusmaximus  
    • Spudd
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 5:39pm

      She is a smart cookie ! ;)

      Report Post » Spudd  
  • hightide
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:43am

    The Bible tells us that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. So we all have our sin. The Bible tells us that sex outside of marriage between and man and a woman is immoral and is a sin. It also tells us to turn away from our sin. To turn away from sin and to God. To turn is the Greek word repent. That is what Christians do. We have an obligation to tell sinners to do the same, not to force them but to tell them the consequences of not turning from their sin. After that it is a choice. To follow sin, or to follow God.
    So there is nothing wrong with what Bachman’s husband is doing. It still comes down to a choice. If you don’t like it, you can continue to live in sin and will spend eternity separated from God. It’s your choice.

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    • docmd
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:13am

      Amem !!!!!!!!!!!! __GOD__ Loves the Sinner But Hates the sin ……………

      Report Post »  
    • AmericanSince1619
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 12:04pm

      James 3:11
      My friends, don’t say cruel things about others! If you do, or if you condemn others, you are condemning God’s Law. And if you condemn the Law, you put yourself above the Law and refuse to obey either it or God who gave it. God is our judge, and he can save or destroy us. What right do you have to condemn anyone?

      Report Post » AmericanSince1619  
  • studentofeib
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:42am

    Wheres the news story on Moochelle’s “no show ” 300k job at a chicago hospital? That didnt exist before Obama was elected to the senate. and wasnt refilled when she went off to the white house? No interest in that?

    Report Post » studentofeib  
  • nysparkie
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:41am

    Media Hype Over Clinic Intended to ‘Make Her Look Scary’
    I would add; Traditional Main Stream Media Hype.
    Trying to save one from a life of idiocy doesn’t appear “SCARY” to me at all.

    Report Post » nysparkie  
  • beenaroundyaknow
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:37am

    Bashir is as dense and as dumb as a box of rocks. If you don’t agree with his views you are stupid. A typical elitist liberal philosophy and choice of false alternatives.

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  • UBETHECHANGE
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:28am

    S.E. Cupp rocks! Thank you for bringing diversity to Glenn Beck’s team! I am a gay conservative woman and am sick and tired of the gay bashing on this site from the so called Christian readers. GB has gay friends and gay employees get over it and let’s leave our personal lives out of this, come together, and beat Obummer in 2012!

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    • Mil-Dot
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:08am

      S.E. Cupp needs to lose the goofy glasses. Trouble is , she is so hot and good looking that it would distract people. So, she puts the glasses on to tone down the beauty. But, I would like to see her at least once without them on. Oh well, I digress.

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    • ablisterin
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:42am

      UBETHECHANGE: You hit the nail on the head when you talk about being bashed by the “so called Christians” on here. I am a Christian but I try to not “bash” anyone. It does harm not good. I love you because you also are one of Gods children and my neighbor. However, I disagree with what you do as I’m sure you would disagree with things I do. God loves us but he also will allow us to suffer the consequenses of our sins and wrongdoings. Our society (GOVT) has tried to take away consequenses of most peoples actions these days as people demand they do so.

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    • BuckarooBanzai
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:46am

      I agree. I believe the whole issue of homosexuality is being used as nothing more than a distraction from the REAL issues. Plus, as a Christian, I don‘t feel it is my place to judge someone else’s personal life or beliefs. We should not let this issue divide us; we need to stand united against the progressive left that is destroying our country.

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    • Anonymous T. Irrelevant
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:51am

      @UBETHECHANGE
      I agree. I don’t care if you are gay or not, My only problem is with gays who feel the need to constantly remind people they are gay. It is none of my business what goes on behind doors, as long as it is not illegal.
      Let’s beat Barry by a landslide in 2012! Conservatism is common sense.

      Report Post » Anonymous T. Irrelevant  
  • GRAMPA-D-NH
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:27am

    What was scary to me was learning the full truth about Obama’s past and true beleifs. Connections to leftist radicals, racists, marxists, me coming to understand what a community organizer is, his murky past with his educational records, birth certificate, social security number (this has gone awfully quiet lately), his radio interview where he admits the constitution is flawed and the civil rights movement did not go far enough by achieving redistribution of wealth, his “under the radar” efforts to undermine the 2nd ammendment, the full implications of his association with Reverand Wright – social justice, racism, anti-Israel, etc, etc. This is the real scary stuff that liberal media has buried or glossed over. Instead, “scary” and deserving of ridicule for them is now a Christian who attempts to live their faith. We live in interesting times hostile to truth and good.

    Report Post » GRAMPA-D-NH  
  • tifosa
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:23am

    The attention is valid. Their “operation” received hundreds of thousands in taxpayer subsidies/benefits and “conversion” therapy is not just ineffective, it’s downright criminal.

    Report Post » tifosa  
    • 13th Imam
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:38am

      Michelle must be appealing to many Democrats. Only the Republicans that are not suitable to the Progressive way of thinking, get attacked and marginilized. Tif seems to enjoy 17% unemployment, a crashing housing market, $4.00 /Gal gas, 3 Wars, Mercury filled lightbulbs, a 14 TRILLION dollar Deficit , . There is nothing like a Socialist, Liberal, Communist, Progressive,, Anarchist, DEMOCRATS ALL, to stand beside a Failed Barry.

      Report Post » 13th Imam  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:40am

      Criminal? right. Someone isn’t happy with his desires and feelings and wants them changed and these people have the nerve to offer to help him. That’s soooo evil.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • GRAMPA-D-NH
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:01am

      Last I knew, our God eradicating big government hasn’t yet made this “criminal” so I’ll take your comment as rhetorical. With that said, all we have here are patients going to a private practice expressing a desired outcome. Apparently some changed their mind or didn’t like the therapy ending it or taking their business elsewhere. Happens everyday, in every business including healthcare. This is a story because there is contempt and hatred toward Christians.

      Report Post » GRAMPA-D-NH  
    • Blackhawk1
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:59am

      I think murder is still criminal yet Planned Parenthood continues to receive taxpayer money. I‘ll bet the Bachmanns clinic hasn’t murdered anyone!

      Report Post » Blackhawk1  
    • tifosa
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 11:19am

      They billed Medicare and Medicaid for a technique that has been discredited by the APA, AT LEAST. I‘d LOVE to see how they rationalized what they were doing on OTR’s~is likely that they had to falsify records to get the payments. Let’s take a look :^)

      Report Post » tifosa  
    • Voice of Reason
      Posted on July 14, 2011 at 10:34am

      Sorry Tiff….but if they billed Medicare for a procedure that was not reimbursable, that is on the Federal Govt. to determine via inspection of the charges and assessment versus the law…..not via conjecture and inuendo by a know nothing tinkerbell wannabe poster trolling a conservative blog. They do it all the time to us during audits. They question charges where we have reimbursed utilities for work and we have to justify those expenditures or they don’t reimburse us. They do a VERY thorough job too. Forenesic accountants don’t play.

      But really…..we know why your knickers are in a twist and why you lickspittles have been sent forth to proffer your libelous meme……..she’s come up in national polling enough to a “problem” and that just can’t be stand, right commrade?

      Destroyed at all costs.

      It would be comical if I didn’t have 2008 as evidence of national stupidity to bring this streaking back to a very frightening reality.

      Report Post »  
  • TRONINTHEMORNING
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:22am

    Get ‘em S.E! How’s life, kid? My listeners love ya.

    Report Post »  
  • NJTMATO
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:18am

    Culturally, the forces continue to try to push us down a path which goes against our grain. It’s refreshing to know that S.E., even though is an athiest, will defend Christians and our belief in Scripture. The progressives are giving everything a big push against all of our morals, ethics, religions, etc. It is time for us to remember to come together and stay close in our hearts with our Lord…keeping His words written in our hearts. Not to judge others, as that is not our place, but to keep strong in our beliefs and pray. (S.E. is on my prayer list that someday soon enough, she will become a believer)

    Report Post » NJTMATO  
  • The Toad
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:17am

    The Bachmanns should be vetted more than the Media is doing now. These people look shady to me!

    Report Post »  
    • studentofeib
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:27am

      How about the media do some vetting of the current president,,, ooo wait,, too late!! and what is shady about her? SHes a conservative?

      Report Post » studentofeib  
    • Anonymous T. Irrelevant
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:40am

      @studentofeib
      Consider the source.

      Report Post » Anonymous T. Irrelevant  
    • Blackhawk1
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:56am

      If the Media vets Obama this time around there is no way he gets elected. Talk about shady people like Bill Ayers, Bernadette Dohrn, Van Jones, Tony Rezko, Bill Richardson, Tax Cheat Timmie Geithner, Rashid Khalidi. The list goes on and on.

      Report Post » Blackhawk1  
    • tifosa
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 3:18pm

      If nobody else does the vetting, Mitt’s team will :^)

      Report Post » tifosa  
  • The Toad
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:15am

    This clinic is something out of the twilight zone. Forget about the clinic the Bachmanns lied about what’s going on in there. Marcus in the past said they didn‘t use methods like that in the clinic and Michele keeps dodging questions about what’s going on in there! These good christians have a habit of not telling the truth!

    Report Post »  
    • Shamrock241
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 12:49pm

      Was your Barrak the Magic ***** telling the truth when he promisses you he would close GitMo?? What about leaving Iraq or Afganahstan ?????? And tell me about his vetting Where are his grades from school, probably filed under F for FAILED MISERABLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Report Post »  
  • kralspaces
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:14am

    I like SE. I’m glad she is staying with GBTV. Don‘t you just love these aganda news anchors who won’t accept an answer unless it is the one they want.

    Report Post » kralspaces  
  • Scrubpuppy
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:12am

    I just spent 8 minutes watching to look at Cupp. Worth it.

    Report Post »  
  • Stfwud
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:11am

    Who cares, C Cup is hot!

    Report Post » Stfwud  
  • DonaldH
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:10am

    The Blaze really needs to put more film of S.E. up

    Report Post » DonaldH  
  • MinutemanOnTheBorder
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:10am

    Hezbollah in Mexico. http://www.americanborder.blogspot.com for info. Proof comes from AZ DPS hacked memos!

    Report Post » MinutemanOnTheBorder  
  • danmsnyder
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:07am

    To Progressives, “junk science” is anything they disagree with or can’t get a grant from the government to study.

    Report Post »  
    • Locked
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:16am

      Problem is, even this “conservative” pundit fails to realize this “junk science” is happening at a clinic that received taxpayer money. So when Mrs. Bachmann goes on a tizzy arguing against frivolous spending, it looks hypocritical that her own clinic receives funding for pseudo-science.

      If people want anti-gay therapy, that’s fine. But if it’s not a legitimate practice (and it’s not; the APA disavows it), then taxpayer money shouldn’t go toward it… especially not if the owner of the clinic makes it a pillar of her speeches.

      TL;DR: I’m fine with Bachmann being a social conservative, but her fiscal conservative planks look increasingly flimsy.

      Report Post »  
    • 13th Imam
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:11am

      Guess we should of opened this clinic under the ACORN NUT. Then it would have been legitimate,?

      Report Post » 13th Imam  
    • Locked
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:40am

      @Imam

      No. If it had the stamp of approval by, say, the APA, ACM, any decent body of scientists… then it would be “legitimate.” As is, Dr. Bachmann is unlicensed in MN and has a degree from an unaccredited school, is practicing dubious therapy, and his clinic is receiving tax-payer money.

      Let’s be honest. The only reason we know about this is because he’s Rep. Bachmann’s husband and they own the clinic. But if they were NOT Republicans, we‘d say exactly what I’m saying. The motives for going after them are politically slimy, but there is an actual issue.

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    • 13th Imam
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 10:11am

      This seems to mean that Only Democrats can use Tax Money sent in to the DC cesspool. Only Democrats can bring Any American Taxpayers stolen cash,back to their districts. If a Republican uses Any money they are hypocrites.

      Report Post » 13th Imam  
    • Blackhawk1
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 10:14am

      Locked

      “If people want anti-gay therapy, that’s fine. But if it’s not a legitimate practice (and it’s not; the APA disavows it), then taxpayer money shouldn’t go toward it…”

      Would this also apply to Abortions? The big difference here is when someone goes into the Bachmann clinic a murder isn’t committed unlike Planned Parenthood.

      Report Post » Blackhawk1  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 10:39am

      “No. If it had the stamp of approval by, say, the APA, ACM, any decent body of scientists… then it would be “legitimate.” ”

      Since when is our government ruled by self-appointed experts? What law establishes the APA as the body that gets to validate psychological therapies? To me that comes close to establishing a philosophy, as the “science” behind psychotherapy is anything but impirical. What if there was an organization of economists that uniformly decided that Keynsianism was true and other theories were junk economics? I don’t think it is that far retched a concept. Should we accept their “authoritative” pronouncements? How about chiropractic medicine? Is that junk science? The AMA used to say so.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • Locked
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 11:02am

      @Isles

      “Since when is our government ruled by self-appointed experts? What law establishes the APA as the body that gets to validate psychological therapies? ”

      Don’t strawman an argument; it serves no purpose but to make you look foolish. “Legitimacy” in this case is bestowed by a peer-reviewed, respected organization, not unlicensed doctors’ views with which you happen to agree. The APA is the foremost authority on psychology and the largest association of psychologists in the world.

      The largest association of professionals says it’s not recommended, because it can be extremely harmful and doesn’t have proven effectiveness. My point is taxpayer money shouldn’t go to it.

      @Blackhawk

      That’s kind of the idea, right? There’s no logical way to be against one without being against the other… but Bachmann is. It makes sense because she’s a social conservative, and I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with her fiscal policies, because she’s coming out as NOT being a conservative. I love my Christian beliefs, but I never want to see them legislated. Taxpayer money for “pray away the gay” is exactly that.

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    • Islesfordian
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 11:20am

      “it’s not recommended, because it can be extremely harmful and doesn’t have proven effectiveness.”

      I would say that there isn‘t much in the realm of psychotherapy that couldn’t be accuse of that. How many people undergoing psychiatric care commit suicide? A lot. Could that be used to indict psychotherapy? Yes. Does that make it a legitimate argument? No.The problem with priveleging professional organizations with certifying the legitimacy of practices in their field is that it presumes they are truly professional and unbiased. Any objective study of professional organizations will reveal the strong role ideology plays within them. If you allow for government money to go to APA approved procedures but not non-APA approved you are establishing them as the authority for the people’s money spent rather than the representatives of the people.

      Who has more success with alcoholocs; AA that invokes God, or non-religious psychotherapy? The evidence points to the religious based therapy. Why then does the APA not encourage religious based therapies? Because their ideology opposes it.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • Locked
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 11:38am

      @Isles

      Your response has been issues, and I‘m not sure if you’re purposely obscuring or just unaware. First, you seem against psychotherapy of all kinds, but support the use of Dr. Bachmann’s version of it. Next you claim politics, as you have in previous articles, without any actual proof. I do see your point of money going to APA-approved versus non-APA approved practices… but I feel you have selective blinders on here. If the Bachmanns run (as they claim) a Christian therapy clinic, that is crossing the line of endorsing religion when taxpayer money goes specifically to prayer programs. I would not support our money going to prayer groups dedicated to Allah than I would to God, because once you open one door, the rats flood in.

      You then launch into AA, which is a dubious leap in multiple ways. First: AA has a very small success rate. Some folks will say single digit; surveys show that over 90% of participants leave within a year (doesn’t mean they fall off the wagon, but once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic). Second, it’s group therapy, not psychotherapy. Third, AA does not invoke God, but a “higher power.“ It can be the Force or the sun or anything ”bigger than ourselves.” I’m not sure what your point on this part is, but it seems like it isn’t going the way you mean for it to go.

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    • Islesfordian
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 12:03pm

      My point is not that all psychotherapy is wrong, but that it isn’t the clear cut science that many claim, so to rule out procedures as illegitimate presumes a level of scientific certainty that doesn’t exist. It also presumes that public money should only be spent where the majority of a certain subset accepts rather than where the politicians decide is appropriate.

      As for the religious element, surely you must be aware that most conservatives see as specious the idea that public funding of programs that include religious concepts is nothing like the establishing of a religion.

      Should their clinic receive public funds? A libertarian answer would be no. That would be the same answer for any clinic regardless of therapies. But if we are going to fund some clinics then it seems best to leave the decision of which clinics to fund up the the politicians who are elected to spend the money, not to professionals who may be biased in their judgments and who aren’t accountable to the people.

      The point about AA is that God is part of the therapy. Yes, I know they say “higher power” but let’s be honest, what does higher power practically mean except God? The word games that some play, even within AA programs is rather silly. I had one councelor say that you could make a chair your higher power. Nonsense. If you create your higher power it isn’t really higher, is it? The point of the higher power is that you don’t have it in you to fix yourself. You have to surrender the

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 12:15pm

      Most “legitimate” psychologists do not operate from the idea that surrender to God is a necessary part of sobriety.

      Now I did not say what AA’s success rate was, so your point about its low rate is pointless. The fact is that it has a higher rate than non-religious methods. It does not claim to cure but to give the tools to stay sober. I disagree with their strong statement that “once an alcoholic always an alchoholic”. I‘m not certain that total healing isn’t possible. But I admit that the likelyhood is slim and that prudence mandates a more humble acceptance that healing may not happen in this life. I would say that a similar approach to sexual disfunction is likely to be the best. Once strong neuropathways have been formed in the brain and dependencies developed upon the chemical reactions within the brain, these things cannot be so easily overcome without deliberate acts of the will and constant new habbits of sobriety/sexual purity that counter the old psycho/chemical habbits. Telling someone they can just “pray the gay away” is likely too optimistic and thus a disservice. But I have no knowledge that the kind of reparative therapy employed in their clinic is that simple minded.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 12:20pm

      This line:
      “most conservatives see as specious the idea that public funding of programs that include religious concepts is nothing like the establishing of a religion.”

      should be:
      most conservatives see as specious the idea that public funding of programs that include religious concepts is just like the establishing of a religion.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • Voice of Reason
      Posted on July 14, 2011 at 10:37am

      Then just like any other fraudulent claim for Medicare reimbrusement Locked, the federal govt. should have denied the claims.

      Kind of shoots your whole crap theory in the hiney.

      Troll.

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    • Locked
      Posted on July 14, 2011 at 1:25pm

      @Reason

      What crap theory? I didn’t think I even posited a theory… although it seems you feel the Bachmanns are making fraudulent claims. Surely that’s the pillar of fiscal conservatism we want in the White House, right?

      I usually find when people throw out “troll,” it‘s because they’re frustrated or have nothing left to contribute. Which one is your issue?

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  • Rob
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:06am

    I would feed the media and liberals to the lions…. really. Sell tickets, pay per view, raise money. Plus there would be a lot of homes opening up, more room in schools….Put me in coach, I’m ready to play.

    Report Post »  
  • jedi.kep
    Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:04am

    An athiest defending a Christian? No wonder it sounds kooky. lol.

    Report Post » jedi.kep  
    • jhaydeng
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:14am

      I agree kinda weird!

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    • kralspaces
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:17am

      Common sense vs a liberal.

      Report Post » kralspaces  
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 8:20am

      It may be kooky, yet she is standing up for what is right in not dumping all people in one pot for the beliefs of one or two people.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • Josiah914
      Posted on July 13, 2011 at 9:29am

      S.E. missed the opportunity to hold Bashir over the flames: Bashir implicated the Bachmanns simply because a therapist was acting on his own. She should’ve jumped right on top of that and declared: I will say that the Bachmanns are responsible in this loose association if you will, once and for all, declare that Barack Obama is a racist & anti-American because of his membership at and association with Jeremiah Wright’s church. Deal? Let’s do it!

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