Faith

See Christian Priests Attack One Another With Brooms at Jesus’ Suspected Birthplace

Tis the season for Christian leaders to engage in an intense and violent battle inside of the Church of the Nativity (believed to be Jesus’ birthplace) in Bethlehem.

A rip-roar fight apparently broke out between up to 100 Greek Orthodox and Armenian Apostolic priests and monks as they were cleaning the church in preparation for Orthodox Christmas celebrations coming in early January.

The clergy did everything but “turn the other cheek,” as they swung brooms and attacked one another in what the USA Today called a “frenzied turf battle.” The situation got so out of control that Palestinian police had to come in and break the fighting up.

Here’s some footage:

The Telegraph has more:

Riot police were forced to restore order inside the basilica of the Nativity in Bethlehem after rival groups of Orthodox and Armenian clerics clashed in a dispute over the boundaries of their respective jurisdictions inside the church. [...]

Witnesses said the former Palestinian Minister of Tourism and Head of the Palestinian forces in the West Bank town were slightly injured during the incident.

Administration of the church is shared by Catholic, Orthodox, and Armenian Apostolic clerics and the relationships among the different groups have frequently been contentious with similar scuffles having broken out in previous years.

(H/T: USA Today)

Comments (265)

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  • bullcrapbuster
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:33pm

    So mormons are not real Christians, but these church leader folks are? The biggest problem with Christian churches in America are the devisive, money hungry, prideful, preachers. Fortunately there are a few honorable humble pastors that do much good.

    Report Post » bullcrapbuster  
    • This_Individual
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:45pm

      The Churches in America have been inflitrated by Bellamy socialists.
      http://rexcurry.net/

      Report Post »  
    • dogdr
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 1:13pm

      Just the beginning of the end. It has been coming for a long time but seems to be ramping up speed lately. The world comes to an end in a violent worldwide clash over whose imaginary friend is the real god. Why can’t people stay out of it. Just let all your imaginary friends fight it out amongst themselves. I envision a NCAA bracket sort of thing. Maybe krishna vs. Joseph Smith in one bracket. Jesus vs. Mohamed in another. You get the idea. The final battle could be at one of the megachurches. MMA rules apply and the winner gets to be worshipped by everybody and rule the world (probably also a development deal with ABC).

      Report Post »  
    • KAWLME
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 1:18pm

      The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is most certainly a christian church. I think the name speaks for itself. Not a paid ministry church, and every building paid for before being built. Believes in good works that all people and churches do in this world. Willing to give food supplies through out the world during disasters with no strings attached.
      Please open your heart and hear the message the Lord wants to give to you.

      KAWLME  
    • Huguenot Descendant
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 1:42pm

      Off topic, the members of the LDS church are Christians and it saddens me that people from other Christian faiths don’t believe so. I don’t know why there are such grudges against us Mormons, even on my mission there was a Catholic priest who insisted to fight with us saying that we weren’t Christians and how we did not believe in his God… Well isn‘t he everyone’s God regardless of faith?

      On topic it doesn’t make sense how these “Christian” leaders can call themselves that and act like this. On the celebrated day of Christ’s birth, in the place of his birth they act like gang members. Is this what our world is coming to when even Christian’s fight against each other now? Don’t we have the world against us already which includes Government, Muslims, Atheists, ACLU, schools. OWS, and so much more isn’t that enough?

      Report Post » Huguenot Descendant  
    • riaf-decnalab
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 2:29pm

      To all:
      Please don’t confuse these so-called priests with those under the leadership of the Holy Pope. They are splintered and divided from Christ’s founded Church (I see no mention of Catholic priest rioters). That’s not to say that Catholic priests are flawless. They’re just as sinful as the Mormon hierarchy, Coptics and other Christian leaders and certainly no better. I’ve never heard it said that as a result of me arguing with someone about my faith that I brought about their conversion to my faith. True holiness is brought with humility and lack of pride none of which was exhibited by these so-called priests. Look toward the Pope of the one true Church as our leader. Catholic priests should not be confused with other denominational priests because they have different leadership.

      Report Post »  
    • amerigramma
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 2:40pm

      As Christian Priests, those men should be reprimanded by their superiors. God will deal with them as well. When they feel slighted by the others, they are called by Christ Himself to come together to offer help to each other and go the extra mile to be very generous to each other. Whatever their theological differences are that should not matter when they share a Holy site. They are called to love each other and talk with and try to understand each other. Shame, shame, shame on them. They are also called to be THE example for the whole world to witness how Christians are required to respond when there is a disagreement. Of all places in the world, they are to witness How the Lord is supposed to work in our lives. They all need to be counseled, and publicly respond with love and forgiveness and co-operation with each other in order for all of us to heal from this incident. This display hurts all Christians and is blasphemous in God’s House. It displays a bad example of everything we stand for. I am non-denominational but respect for others to interpret the Bible in their own way. May the Lord Bless them with reflection, love, growth and peace within them.

      Report Post »  
    • scheduler
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 2:48pm

      Ridiculous fools.

      http://politicalbowl.com – Political Videos

      Report Post »  
    • TH30PH1LUS
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 4:07pm

      These “christians” have given the entire world a reason to mock faith through their disobedience to the Lord.

      “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.” ~ JESUS

      Report Post » TH30PH1LUS  
    • AvengerK
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 4:12pm

      This is not the first time Greek and Amernian orthodox priests have behaved like this. I’m thoroughly ashamed of them. This does however demonstrate that the only credible stewards for Jerusalem are the Jews. Not the Christians and DEFINITELY not the Muslims.

      Report Post »  
    • ZengaPA65
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 6:48pm

      Christianity at it’s finest.

      Report Post » ZengaPA65  
    • snooop1e
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 9:14pm

      @Huguenot Descendant and the rest- Mormon Doctrine teaches that God was originally a human being (a man) who eventually became God and that all Christians also eventually become a god with their own planet and their own human beings who worship them. Christian? Really? Joseph Smith was the Christian version of Muhamad.

      Report Post » snooop1e  
    • mean_conservative_teacher
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:08pm

      This is not the kind of thing that we need to see going on in the church. It is disgraceful. And as to the LDS matter, I would not worry overmuch about it. The Catholics think that they are the only True Church(c) established and endorsed by Jesus Himself and that everyone else is apostate. Now, I do not happen to agree with our LDS friends, but I say all of this to say that they should not take it personally. If they think they are right, then they shouldn’t care what others think. I know I certainly don’t care how many people think that I am a heretic, and it’s a good thing too because that number is large.

      Report Post »  
    • Worldsapart
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:09pm

      If Mormons are Christians then why are Mormons always trying to convert Christians to Mormonism? You guys could at least be intellectually honest with us and tell us what you really believe, That Mormons are the ONLY Christians.

      P.S.”For God so loved the world that He gave His ONLY begotten Son…” –John 3:16 King James Version
      Ergo, Jesus and Satan/Lucifer are not brothers.
      Oh and Mormons think they can become Gods; that’s what Lucifer wanted and it got him kicked out of Heaven. It’s SO Evil!

      Report Post »  
    • ZengaPA65
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:26pm

      LOL Good point. You tell em Worlds.

      Report Post » ZengaPA65  
    • heartitorleaveit
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:47pm

      .If the principle of “progression” is eternally true, why is it that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not gods of their own worlds?
      2.If it is necessary to have a body in order to become a God, then how did the Holy Spirit, who does not have a body, attain the status of godhood?
      3.If the book of Mormon is the most correct book of any on earth and contains the fullness of the gospel, then why does it not contain the essential Mormon doctrines of eternal progression, the priesthoods, the plurality of gods, that God is an exalted man, and the 3 degrees of glory?
      4.If the book of Mormon was transmitted to us by the power of God, why does it have thousands of changes in it?
      Claiming to be Christian while denying Christian doctrine seems kinda risky to me! :]

      Report Post » heartitorleaveit  
    • Darren
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 3:48am

      Snooop1e;

      “Mormon Doctrine teaches that God was originally a human being (a man) who eventually became God and that all Christians also eventually become a god with their own planet and their own human beings who worship them. Christian? Really? Joseph Smith was the Christian version of Muhamad.”

      /Yaaaawwwwnnnn

      Please wake me when you have an original thought to share.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 4:15am

      Heartitorleaveit;

      “.If the principle of “progression” is eternally true, why is it that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not gods of their own worlds?”

      I could be wrong but no offical Mormon doctrine teaches that one will obtain their own world. I believe we will but that’s an idea, not an official teaching. And if there is such an official doctrine, there is most likely no timeline given as to when it will happen. That would be beyond any mortal comprehension.

      “2.If it is necessary to have a body in order to become a God, then how did the Holy Spirit, who does not have a body, attain the status of godhood?”

      Foreordination by God’s omniscience would make the Holy Spirit a god. One day the holy Spirit will gain abody of flesh and bone. The best I‘ve heard is that this will be during Christ’s Millenial reign when all knowledge is absolute and thus the Holy Spirit no longer needed.

      “3.If the book of Mormon is the most correct book of any on earth and contains the fullness of the gospel, then why does it not contain the essential Mormon doctrines of eternal progression, the priesthoods, the plurality of gods, that God is an exalted man, and the 3 degrees of glory?”

      It is the most correct of any book because it testifies, more than any other book that Jesus is hte Christ, the Son ofthe living God and that it is only by Him that we are saved. All others things are appendages to this truth (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 4:19am

      (con’t);

      The Book of Mormon also confirms the truthfulness of the Bible and its own divine and eternal truth to come unto Christ. Neither book says, “this is the only book you’ll ever need”.

      “4.If the book of Mormon was transmitted to us by the power of God, why does it have thousands of changes in it?”

      God is perfect, man is not. The things of God God are perfect, the things of man are not. This includes man’s comprehension of God and things like the printing press without Spell Check.

      “Claiming to be Christian while denying Christian doctrine seems kinda risky to me! :]”

      I agree. I don‘t see who’s doing that. :>)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Shelby2012
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 8:11am

      These groups need to go read the new testament. I think Paul explains the implications of Christians fighting in almost every letter he wrote in teh new testament. Its ridiculous that we can not show a united front to the world. These people have just pulled people away from christ and I’m sure God will judge them fairly for that. ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS! I bet neither of the churches apologizes to the other either.

      Report Post » Shelby2012  
    • mean_conservative_teacher
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 9:45am

      Darren: I cannot believe that you imply that there is a point where the Holy Spirit “will no longer be needed”. He is God. You say we will not need Him? Not only is that illogical and dangerous (it seems very akin to the one unforgivable sin) but it reads as a rejection of God. It chilled my heart to read it. Is He nothing to you save an eternal Wikipedia? If that is the case, then I think you need to seriously re-examine your relationship with Him.

      On a slightly different topic, Jesus uses the language “my Father and your Father”, etc. to show that, at His Resurrection, He has made possible our adoption to God as promised in the covenant to Abraham (that God would be our God and we would be His people). It is a very precious and wonderful statement in the Word that fills me with joy every time I read it, and I’ll not see it misconstrued.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 12:04pm

      Yo Darren:
      I believe you are off on many issues and will not even attempt to correct them all. The bible clearly states that Jesus is the manifestation of God in the flesh. The Holy spirit is spirit AND eternal, how could God eliminate part of Himself.. that is like you saying that you no longer need your arm and cut it off… this would be very stupid.
      Also scripture directly says to not ADD or SUBTRACT from it … this is kindergarden simple… no insult intended.
      If you adhere to you’re principle then I or anyone else can come up with “The Book Of Me” an say; thus saith the LORD!

      The mathamatical principle of this would be 1+0=1, you do this 1+1=1 The mathamatics involved here are about as simple as it gets, and yet you do not abide … are you so easily deceived ? God‘s Word explains God’s Word … He needs no help from anyone else, no place, no time, ever !

      Report Post »  
    • joel228
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 1:03pm

      Book of 4truth2all 1:1:1

      Your math is not exactly compelling. In asserting the ridiculous Nicene creed of the trinity you essentially say 1+1+1=1. There is nothing clearer in the bible than the distinct nature and characteristics of God the Father, his son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. Jesus prayed that his people would all be “one” in the same sense that he and his Father were one but I’m sure you have already heard that before and from my perspective it is getting tiring having to repeat that over and over to people who ignore it and continue to spout the same old tripe.

      I could give you an elementary education about the nature of spirits and mortal flesh but I suspect you would not be able to grasp that concept until you are willing to let go of the false but Nicene declared “unknowable” nature of the three members of the Godhead. The bible (John for one) said life eternal depends on knowing God.
      Hundreds of years after the bible was compiled the Nicene council said to know or understand God is not possible. Therefore contrary to the bible “life eternal” is not possible. Isn’t that both adding to and subtracting from scripture? No wonder they did all they could up until William Tyndale to prevent an english translation of the bible and to keep it out of the hands of the average person. Hundreds of years teaching the same garbage has cemented in a false idea that is proving difficult to uproot even now with the truth in your hands. Now live up to your nam

      Report Post » joel228  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 2:22pm

      Yo Joel228:
      I do not have intentions of writing the book of “4truth2all”.. but you did make me laugh… not so much with the rest of it. I just got accused of not accepting others thoughts or opinions so maybe I should just me quiet. However, you take my math example and apply it to something unrelated to it’s intent. That is illogical, and is like saying a car is a boat. Please, give me your elementary ideas, not to insult you as you have me, but I doubt they are beyond my grasp… though I am not so interested in your ideas as to the truth of scripture.
      Concerning the Nicene …I do not base my understanding on that; I base it on scripture. So ,you also assume that incorrectly. If you wish to speak AT me please do not bother. If however you can speak WITH me without insult fine. And stay on subject… do not bring other stuff into the discussion.
      Are you a Morman or JW ? Helps to know who one speaks with…

      Report Post »  
    • Huguenot Descendant
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 3:06pm

      @snooop1e

      Don’t all kids want to be like their parents someday? Especially when their parent is perfect, isn’t that what we strive for is to be like them? But I fail to see why our belief that we can be like our father in heaven detracts us from being Christian. Being Christian specifically means a belief in “Christ” that he is the savior of the world, the only begotten son, the messiah and we who belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints do believe this with all our hearts. So I don’t see how your argument detracts from the fact that we are Christians/

      Report Post » Huguenot Descendant  
    • Huguenot Descendant
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 3:22pm

      @Worldsapart

      Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism

      Yes we as followers of the bible believe that there is one faith. You may discern it however you want but it’s pretty blunt there should be only one faith, one baptism under one Lord. I do believe my church is true, doesn’t everyone believe their own faiths is true?

      If you are Catholic are you going to be thinking that the Protestant or even Muslim faith is the true faith? If you say so than why was there so many religious wars? I know quite well about persecution from other faiths, I am descendant of the Huguenots whom were slaughtered by the Catholics because of their different beliefs, and a Mormon who were persecuted and killed because of our different beliefs. Even you whom claim to be Christian will do anything to attack the LDS faith claiming we are not Christian when I who am member testify we are.

      I went to a Catholic church once because a friend asked me to go and up on the pulpit the priest criticized the Mormons. Why is this necessary if you are trying to act like Christ? And although we try to convert others to our church, we do not and will never criticize other Christian faiths for their beliefs. We do not look our nose up upon other faiths, and in fact are very humbled that there are other Christians out there whom are faithful to the Lord, and no we do not believe anyone who doesn’t join our church is damned either. I again testify unto you that we the LDS faith are Christians.

      Report Post » Huguenot Descendant  
    • Darren
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 3:49pm

      Mean Conservative;

      “Darren: I cannot believe that you imply that there is a point where the Holy Spirit “will no longer be needed”. He is God. ”

      The holy Spirit testifies the truth of all things and He is an eternal being and one person ofthe godhead. That is all true. But when one stands n the poresence of God Himself having passed through all their trials to come unto Hm and have already been sanctified in Him then one has absolute knowledge. This knowledge is first-hand. Why is the holy spirit needed then to confirm truth one already has and has embraced. There wikll be forever gratfulness and indebtedness for the holy Spirit in guiding indidivuals to truth and in sanctifiying them to be one with the Father as Christ is one with the Father. After that process is done, however, why is the holy Spirit needed? The Holy Spirit is an an individual being who, like all beings, is subject and subordnate to God the Father, who is the Most High God.

      Yes, blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is the unpardonable sin but one cannot possibly come anywhere near the point of deification/glorification without fully embracing the Holy Spirit through Christ. That, is far from, even the very antithesis of, blashpemy agianst the holy Spirit or any other member of the Godhead.

      (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 4:07pm

      4Truth2all;

      “The Holy spirit is spirit AND eternal, how could God eliminate part of Himself.. ”

      I don‘t think He’ll eliminate any part of Himself or the Godhead. I think God will fulfill all things and that all things will glorify Him in the end.

      “that is like you saying that you no longer need your arm and cut it off…”

      That’s funny because I was born with one and a half arms. I only have two fingers on the right arm which is only half its normal length. ;>)

      But, anyway, I say my positin would be like my providing a way for my children to receive all the blessings I have to offer them. When that way is taken then whatever they needed tat one point in their progression will no longer be needed in the future. Thiswould be like whispering to their minds and hearts along their sojourn towards me but as they progress that whispering will become less needed for they already know what to do and are doing it. Now, their certainty of doing what is right will increase as will their “bond” with me but if they are doing my will already, why continue to teach them to do what they are already doing? Instead I will whisper confirmation intheir souls that what they are doing is pleasing and good.

      “Also scripture directly says to not ADD or SUBTRACT from it … this is kindergarden simple… no insult intended.”

      I agree. As opposed tothe Nicene Creed, the Book of Mormon confirms the truthfulness of the Bible. no more, no less. (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • joel228
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 4:14pm

      Very well 4truth2all, I’ll take you up on it. No insults intended but I do find that if the biblical teachings about the nature of God, Christ and the Holy Ghost are not understood then this part is also rarely understood. It‘s going to take 4 postings so if you don’t see 4 then the blaze is again causing me grief in posting.

      I’m Mormon (not morman with an “a”). It’s better stated as Latter Day Saint (LDS). The biblical church members were also called saints. The word saint has been distorted over the centuries of apostasy.

      This is the elementary education which in no way contradicts the bible. You may say it adds to what is taught in the bible and I agree. The scriptural references that say do not add to or subtract from the writings refer to specific books (Deuteronomy and Revelation) not to the yet un compiled bible. The scripture of Paul that says teach no other gospel does not indicate all truths exist in the bible. Many truths have minimal illusions to in the bible but are not expanded on because the people knew them already. They have been lost and distorted over the centuries of apostasy.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 4:17pm

      (2 of 4)
      Elementary truth number one.

      A spirit, is a living, thinking being, and has the same form as the flesh with which it is eventually clothed. The Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit just like Jesus before his birth in the flesh, and like each of us before we were born. We existed before the world was. Jesus we are told was first born in spirit and only begotten in the flesh (into mortality) of God the Father. Worlds are and were created by his power and he had the status of God under the Father before he was born. He was chosen to implement the plan of the Father before the earth was created.

      So are anti Mormons right that we teach Jesus and Satan are brothers? This is where anti Mormons get that idea.
      Lucifer was also in heaven, else how could he have fallen from there? All the hosts of heaven including us were spirit children of God and as such were brothers and sisters (yes spirits have gender). But all elements are eternal including whatever makes us, us. God did not create evil as the standard Christian teachings imply.
      Lucifer rejected the Father’s plan and proposed his own so that “not one sole would be lost”. His plan essential sought his own exaltation at the expense of all others. He would have taken God’s power and with it removed the ability of others to sin. But that also removes the ability to prove, improve, repent, accept Christ as Savior and be exalted through his atoning sacrifice.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • Darren
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 4:19pm

      (con’t);

      “The mathamatical principle of this would be 1+0=1, you do this 1+1=1″

      I‘ll include Joel228’s response in this where he correctly asserts, “In asserting the ridiculous Nicene creed of the trinity you essentially say 1+1+1=1.“ You are incorrectly applying what ”1″ means. The numercic unit “1” in biblical Hebrew is “yachid” and in Greek it is “mono”. “One” like Adam and Eve being “one” flesh meaning “unity” in biblical Hebrew is “echad” and in Greek “hen”. Every single tme the bible says that the Son and the Father are “one” it uses either “echad” or “hen”; never “yachid” or “mono”. So the correct LDS mathematical equation would be 1+1+1= Unity. It is the creeds of man, such as the Nicene and Athanasian creeds which say that 1+1+1=1. But there simple is no biblical support for such an equation or belief.

      Now, I ask you if man may become perfect, even godlike perfect? (And being “like God” does not mean to be His equal). Is thee biblical support for this belief? I say absolutely yes to both.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • joel228
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 4:19pm

      (3 of 4)
      Lucifer who became Satan used the agency that God gave him and sought to take away our’s. That was his sin not his desire to be like God. Lucifer and a third of the hosts of heaven became devils. Satan is also a spirit person who by rejecting God’s plan did not keep his “first estate” and will never receive a body of flesh and bone to be advanced to a “second estate”. Those who keep their second estate will be exalted and inherit all the Father has. That adds to the Father’s own glory and in no way takes away from him. Satan’s sin was to exalt himself rather than abase himself as Christ did. He is no longer called a son of God so in that sense can not be considered a brother of Jesus who is still and always will be the son of God in spirit and flesh. He is also our God and the only way for us to go back to the presence of the Father and receive our own exaltation as resurrected beings. A resurrected being has spirit, flesh and bones. Not all resurrected beings will be exalted. The exalted are described as the “few that find it”. “Wide is the gate” for all the others. However few suffer forever and your idea of heaven is probably most like the lower kingdoms that receive no exaltation and never reach the potential that God’s plan provides and that he desires for all.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 4:21pm

      (4 of 4)
      No revelation has even been given about the future of the Holy Ghost. However we do know that he is a distinct being just as much as Christ is. Christ existed as a living, thinking, spirit before his birth and after the death of his flesh. Within three days of his death his spirit took on flesh once more never to be separated again. The purpose of the Holy Ghost is to testify spirit to spirit (which we still have and are) of Christ and God the Father. After we reach that sure knowledge and our final resurrected destination he will no longer need to testify to our spirits of God the Father or of Jesus Christ. God continues to create worlds without end, this is scripture. On the speculation side I’m sure they have similar plans and needs of a testator like the Holy Ghost.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • mean_conservative_teacher
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 5:01pm

      Darren, the Spirit is so much more than a revelator of divine truths. He is God with us, the Comforter and Friend and Lover. He is a Being with a mind and a personality. He is the One who is with us now and He is the One who works within us to change not just our minds but our hearts, our perceptions, our very beings. He will not become obsolete even as Jesus is not obsolete although the work of His death and Resurrection has already been accomplished. You need to spend some time getting to know Him. He is living and active in those who are His. If you don’t know Him as such, then I would pray because, like it or not, you may not know Him at all. And if you have been treating Him like a concept in a book and not as a Being, then He probably doesn’t know you either.

      Report Post »  
    • Darren
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 6:51pm

      Mean-conservative;

      “Darren, the Spirit is so much more than a revelator of divine truths. He is God with us, the Comforter and Friend and Lover. He is a Being with a mind and a personality. He is the One who is with us now and He is the One who works within us to change not just our minds but our hearts, our perceptions, our very beings.”

      I 100% agree.

      “He will not become obsolete even as Jesus is not obsolete although the work of His death and Resurrection has already been accomplished. ”

      I agree to this also but perhaps not for the same reasons. Joel228 hit on two very good points regarding the Holy Ghost. The first is that there is no revelation given regarding te future f the Holy Ghost. So, in light of that, I need to say that my explanatinon was based on an idea I once heard which I think has merit. I could be wrong and that‘s fine with me but i have no reason to think I’m wrong. Second, Joel said, “After we reach that sure knowledge and our final resurrected destination ”. I think that is important for when we do, al things are known unto us first-hand. I do not want ot say that the Holy Ghost will become “obsolete”. I think we will be forever grateful for His divine role in our salvation and give glory to the Father for sending the Second Comforter. I know I’ve needed it.

      (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 6:57pm

      (con’t);

      “He will not become obsolete even as Jesus is not obsolete although the work of His death and Resurrection has already been accomplished.”

      But, like the *purpose* of Jesus’ death and resurrection will eventually be fulfilled and also no longer needed to be repeated, the *purpose* of the Holy Ghost will no longer be needed. We know onlu by the power ofthe Holy Ghost that Jesus‘ death and resurrection are real and that Jesus is neeed as out personal Lord and Savior but when we are in the Lord’s presence gaining first-hand knowledge of his divine hand in our lives, why would the Holy Ghost need to testify to us as to its truth when we are then part of that truth?

      Again, it is not the being who is obsolete; but the works of that being being fulfilled and no longer needed to be repeated. The same is true for Christ‘s death and resurrection and the same is true fr the Holy Ghost to testify of God’s truth to our minds and hearts.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 8:10pm

      Yo Darren:
      Correct me if I am wrong but you state that the Holy Spirit will no longer be need…post 12/29@4:15 under #2, you also say a number of other things … please show me in scripture where this is mentioned.
      Concerning you’re paragraph starting…“But anyway”…I am not sure why you responded back with this as I never spoke to it… what you do state is nothing more then the process of santification. We are “born again”, made new. As we walk with the LORD our relationship matures this is ALL scriptural though you do not alude to scripture.

      Concerning my math equation you do the same as Joel in that you take it out of context and apply it to something unrelated and the meanings that you state are irrelevant to my intended purpose and have no bearing.

      Also, please show me in scripture were in this life we can be perfect when we are born sinful and continue to fall short of the glory of God.

      Finally … I would again reinerate that scripture needs NO outside confirmation from anyone; it stands on it’s own strength not only that but your “confirmation” comes over 1800 years latter.

      I will be working 14 hrs. the next two days but if this story goes off the main page I will follow it.

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 9:46pm

      Yo not Morman with an a or better yet LDS also known as Joel228:
      As I understand scripture all those “born again” that were sinners are now looked apon by the LORD as saints. I will not list scripture unless I need to prove to you what I say is correct according to it.

      I believe that the verses in Deut. and Rev. do in fact apply to the entire bible as God in his omnipotence understood and was in control of what would become our present day bible of 66 books. Moses and John did not know this but God did.
      All scripture is God breathed and all he wants us to know in this present age is included, and there is NO reason to add which, if I understand you say you are going to do. I was going to stop here (due to time) but I read the other three posts – twice… you ARE CORRECT… I do not believe much of anything in you’re last three posts is accurate according to the 66 books of the bible. So my question is do you get what you have written in the last 3 posts from The Book of Mormon ?
      Do you know who Hymenaeus and Philetus are? They are mentioned in 2Timothy 2:14-18 it would seem that you are doing what they did in principle.
      Grasp; comprehension, holding or attaining
      I mean no disrespect … I comprehend what you say but God’s Word tells me to not hold it or keep it… I am sorry but my math equation stands firm in it’s purpose and intent. It is so simple yet you will not see it. You do the same as I, yet it is opposite.

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    • joel228
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 9:53pm

      What? No comment from 4truth2all for me? I feel bad. Either you just dismiss all that I said off hand as not worth a follow up or you are so blown away with the facts that it leaves you speechless (yea right).

      I was hoping you would at least challenge one point so I could defend it biblically. Most of what I said does have at least a few allusions to in the bible. Some adds to the bible (additional truth is not a sin) but nothing contradicts it.

      So was I initially right that failure to understand the nature of God also makes it difficult to understand our own nature and pre-mortal existence as his spirit children?

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 10:11pm

      4truth2all, glad you did read my posts. So your points of discussion and disagreement are at least
      1) meaning of the word saint
      2) additional scripture to the bible
      3) Where does knowledge of pre earth life come from
      4) something about math

      Before I find supporting evidence in the bible and show where the additional truth comes from can I get you to admit one thing and answer one quick question?

      Does the bible contain all knowledge and truth? I’m sure you will say no it does not.
      But the real question is does God want us to remain ignorant to all else? If yes why do you think so? Is it just because of the two scriptures in Deut and the one in Rev that says don’t add to or take away from these things? Please help me understand your opposition to God revealing more than what he has given us in the compilation of the bible. Should I now call you 4limitedtruth2all?

      Report Post » joel228  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 10:53pm

      Yo Joel228:
      You can call me whatever you want.. that does not make it TRUE. It is late and I have to work two 14 hr. days in a row. I will follow this story if it goes off the main page as I do have a reply. Do you know how to follow it?

      Report Post »  
    • Darren
      Posted on December 30, 2011 at 12:01am

      4Truth;

      “Correct me if I am wrong but you state that the Holy Spirit will no longer be need…post 12/29@4:15 under #2, you also say a number of other things … please show me in scripture where this is mentioned.”

      As I told ConservativeTeacher, that was an idea which I distinguish from official doctrine. I could be entirely wrong about it and if so I’m perfectly fne with that. Please note that I also clarified to the same poster that it is not the being who becomes, using the same terminology, “no longer needed” but that the being’s role is fulfilled. Just like it is no longer needed for God to become flesh and die for our sins, for that has been done and thus fulfilled, so too, I think, the role of the Holy Spirit. We do not know for sure as this matter of discussion has not been revealed to man.

      “what you do state is nothing more then the process of santification. We are “born again”, made new. As we walk with the LORD our relationship matures this is ALL scriptural though you do not alude to scripture.”

      Here’s wat I was getting at. When accused of blasphemy, Jesus told the Jews, “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?” (John 10:34). this refers directly to Psalms 82:6, “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.“ Being a ”god“ and a child of the ”most High” gives us the potential to be like God. (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on December 30, 2011 at 12:11am

      (con’t);

      “48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Mathew 5); “61 Let your heart therefore be perfect with the Lord our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.” (1 Kings 8). The lord would not command us to do anything we cannot do. But how to accmplish this task where mperfect beings become perfect? “21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.” (John 17). It is through Christ that we may become one withthe Father *as* Christ is one with the Father. It is at this point that I think the Holy Ghost will no longer need to testify ofthe Father and the Son as we are eternally one with the Father through the Son.

      “Concerning my math equation you do the same as Joel in that you take it out of context and apply it to something unrelated and the meanings that you state are irrelevant to my intended purpose and have no bearing.”

      Not as I see it. You initially said to me, “The mathamatical principle of this would be 1+0=1, you do this 1+1=1 The mathamatics involved here are about as simple as it gets, and yet you do not abide … are you so easily deceived ?” I corrected you in that LDS theology follows the mathematical equation of 1+1+1=Unity; not the numeric “1”. (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on December 30, 2011 at 12:21am

      (con’t)

      It was Joel228 who initially pointed out that it is you who uincorrectly se the math formula 1+1+1=1. And despite this you tried to show how 1+1=1 is an examle of being easily deceived. Interesting. I’ll say again that there is no biblical support to say that *numerically* the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God; but they are not three gods but one God. That’s mere philosophy of man; not scripture.

      “Finally … I would again reinerate that scripture needs NO outside confirmation from anyone; it stands on it’s own strength not only that but your “confirmation” comes over 1800 years latter.”

      It stands as a great witness one its own but one its own it is not enough. I agree with Margaret Barker in that “sola scriptura” will never provide a full picture ofthe gospel of Jesus Christ in its pure faith and worship. The calling of Joseph Smith was a fulfillment of God “restituting of all things” (Acts :17) and that includes the coming of Elias (who appeared to Joseph Smith in the temple) to “restore all things” (Mathew 17:11). As for the BoM testifying ofthe Bible, “1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. (2 Corinthinans 13).

      Report Post » Darren  
    • joel228
      Posted on December 30, 2011 at 3:58am

      I have no trouble following pages that are long gone from the main page. I just need to remember to check. Here is one item of discussion for now. It will take a few postings.

      Many prophets existed before Moses. There was Adam (yes he was a prophet), Enoch, Melquisedec, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Joseph (of Egypt), yet we have none of their writings in the bible. What we know about them comes from Moses who was long after their time. Where did Moses get his information? It was either from direct revelation from God or he had writings that we do not. Surely the early prophets did write, don’t you think?

      But we are looking for scripture that says we can’t have more scripture besides the 66 books of the bible. Help me out because I can’t find them.

      I’ve looked in Deuteronomy, Proverbs, Galations, and Revelation but nothing in any of those are even close to saying don’t add to or take away from the 66 books that will at some future time be compiled.

      Here is what I get out of them and I’ll post the text below so you can more easily read them and let me know if I missed something.

      Deut 4:2 and 12:32
      Proverbs 30:1,6
      Gal 1:8,9
      Rev 22:18,19

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on December 30, 2011 at 4:02am

      –Moses is telling his people to keep the commandments that have been given them. Nothing more nothing less. Using your logic Moses is telling his people to not modify the 66 books that are yet to be compiled some hundreds of years later.

      –Agur is telling Ithiel and Ucal to accept the revelation received for them. Nothing more and nothing less. Is Agur telling Ithiel and Ucal not to modify the not yet existing 66 book of books? I don’t think so.

      –Paul is telling the Galations to watch out for false teachers or teachers of false doctrine. Nothing to do with adding to or removing from the 66 books yet to be compiled.

      –John mentions “this book or ”the book of this revelation“ or ”these things” five times in two verses. No mention of the yet to be compiled 66 book bible. He is very specific about what book he is referring to and it is the one that he is writing to the “seven churches which are in Asia”.

      Deut 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
      4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
      Deut 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on December 30, 2011 at 4:05am

      3 of 3
      Proverbs 30
      1 The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, even the prophecy: the man spake unto Ithiel, even unto Ithiel and Ucal,
      6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

      Galatians 1
      1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
      6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
      7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
      8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
      9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

      Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia:
      Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of THIS book, If any man shall add unto THESE things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in THIS book:
      22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of THE book of THIS prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in THIS book.

      So on the contrary side is there anything in the bible that suggests we should have more scripture? I believe there is. I will save that for later if you are interested.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • ScottFarkus
      Posted on December 30, 2011 at 6:33am

      There seems to be an awful lot of debate about what The Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints believes concerning man’s relationship of God. The best way I can explain it is personal to me and it doesn‘t have to be anyone else’s interpretation. My relationship with our Heavenly Father is much like the relationship I have with my earthly family. I love them all very much, I respect them and it kills me to disappoint or hurt them. As a father I want my children to be safe and happy but also to learn and grow. For this to happen they must one day leave my home into the dangers of the world but without this experience they would stop growing. Our Heavenly Father has sent us to this earth for the same reasons. If we choose to follow our Savior Jesus Christ‘s example and most importantly accept his atonement we may be able to return to our Father’s presence. This is only accomplished through Jesus Christ. As far as man becoming a god that of course sounds a bit nut bar from the outside looking in but to me the word God is synonymous with Eternal Parent. The fact that God has structured us here on earth in families is part of his eternal plan. We are learning the most important lessons possible which are to love our spouses and children and that we can live with them for eternity if we follow our Savior. If we are accepted into his presence we can continue our families for eternity. For me it‘s less about fear and damnation and more about a Father’s love for his

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    • Segosa
      Posted on December 30, 2011 at 8:36am

      DARREN, Joel, and everyone else arguing over scripture taken for bibles found now days… just remember this, those words had totally different meanings 2000 years ago. Take love for example. To us, it has one meaning. But 2000 years ago, there were 4 different words to describe love, each for a different type of love.

      Go learn Hebrew, Greek, buy a non dumbed down version of a bible, look up the original words and find out what the meaning of it is. Only then will you know the original meaning intended by the writer.

      Report Post » Segosa  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 1, 2012 at 10:41am

      Yo Darren:
      Happy New year! Should be interesting…
      Concerning the Holy Spirit … I would again go back to my origional analogy that was “personal” to you. This was not by “chance”. (I could elaborate more if needed). The Holy Spirit is a part of the ETERNAL Godhead, and thus eternal. PLEASE read (2 Cor.3:17-18) it in part says that “now the Lord (Jesus) is the Spirit” … also (Galatians 4:6) say that that Spirit is in our hearts. No one could exist in eternity without the Spirit, they would in the “ twinkling of an eye” be ebulltioned by the consuming fire of the LORD. I will use a stronger example… it would be like you saying to yourself in the mirror that you don’t need you any more. Scripture answers your question very simply so it is indeed revealed to us!

      To be like God… I agree with this as we are created in the image of Him, but to claim to be a “god” is vastly different then “like” God. I am aware of this teaching it is taught in many circles and is big with New Agers. I do not believe those verses say we ARE gods. I believe they mearly state our position “in” Christ and Him “in” us, for without Him we are clay pots …(NOTHING)

      Perfection … ARE YOU PERFECT ? In theory, if a person walked in complete obedience to the Spirit one could indeed be perfect … please let me know when you meet this person.

      * (Sola scriptura, math and Margaret continued next post).

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 1, 2012 at 11:56am

      Yo Darren:
      Continued….
      My math equation does NOT apply the the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit … it applies to “sola scripture”.
      Sorry, but Margaret is not the “authority” I follow.
      Scripture shows us EXACTLY what God want us to see, especially concerning Jesus ! If you follow this thinking then you open up to the false spirit of anybody claiming additional divine teachings, and the belief in them

      “This is the third time I am comming to you”… this is nothing more than Paul talking about himself and his visits to the people of Corinth.

      “two or three witnesses”… this is nothing more than how his followers are to conduct themselves.
      In all due respect… it would appear that you are taking these verses and mis-appling them to something unrelated to suit YOUR purpose, instead of simply allowing them to speak for themselves.
      “Segosa” in the post above mine uses the word “argue”… for my part I do not have any intent to argue but to discuss and reason. I have tried to do this as simply as possible so as to not to cause confusion and with no intention to insult. The bible says we are to get wisdom, knowledge and understanding; and God does this thru many means. This lifelong pursuit of God deepens our understanding but it does NOT add to what already exists. I will again say that scripture plainly tells us to not add or take away and these verses apply to the entire 66 books which equate to one… 66 = 1
      Question…is Jesus God ?…, respectfully

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    • joel228
      Posted on January 1, 2012 at 6:21pm

      4truth2all, how were your 14 hour days? Are you planning to reply to my information about don‘t add to and and don’t remove from the 66 books of the bible?

      You said
      “I will again say that scripture plainly tells us to not add or take away and these verses apply to the entire 66 books which equate to one… 66 = 1

      Could you read and respond to my points that none of the scriptures that say don’t add to or remove from the writings of “this book” or the commandments you’ve received, etc., even remotely point to a future compilation of books that the receivers of the word never knew about and would never even see? What sense does that make?

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on January 1, 2012 at 6:40pm

      Mind if I answer your question to Darren?
      Is Jesus God? Yes.
      Does that mean the trinity is correct? Absolutely not.
      Jesus is commissioned by the Father to be our God under his direction. As Jesus himself said he could do nothing of himself but only what the Father commanded him to do or that he saw the Father do. To say Jesus is God does not mean Jesus is God the Father. However he can speak as the Father and he directs our prayer and worship to the Father not to himself. However we must do it in Jesus’ name.

      Let me add a little that might confuse you but is nonetheless truth and adds to correct understanding. To know the true nature of God is very important so we can know what we worship.

      Jesus was resurrected with a tangible body of flesh and bone (he said touch me and see). It was functional in every way the mortal body is (Jesus ate fish and honeycomb).
      Question to you. Does Jesus still have that body? If not then what happened to it?

      The logical conclusion is that God even now has a body of flesh and bone as tangible‘s as man’s. Can you dispute that with scripture? God is a knowable being. John said this is life eternal, to know God and Jesus Christ who he sent.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 1, 2012 at 9:38pm

      Yo Joel228:
      Concerning you’re (post 12/29 10:11pm) it would seem that you have read my posts to Darren which is good … as I have said I have no problem with increasing our understanding of scripture (God) as stated we are asked to and expected to do this according to scripture.
      I can write a “new” song but the notes, the sound, already exists.
      Another way I would explain it would be that we “deepen” our understanding not widen.
      Science (creation) is another example.
      Is there anything of which one can say,
      “Look! This is something new”?
      It was here already, long ago;
      it was here before our time.
      There is no remembernce of men of old,
      and even those who are yet to come
      will not be remembered
      by those who follow.
      (Ecclesiastes 1:10-11)

      SCRIPTURE explains SCRIPTURE it is ALL contained within.
      I have already explained the foreknowledge of God concerning the completed 66 books compiling the bible. Moses nor John had any idea that there would one day be a “bible” of 66 books but God did.
      I believe that what I have said speaks to all of the verses you list.

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 1, 2012 at 9:48pm

      Joel228:

      How does one know a false teacher?
      I would also like to see the scripture that you claim ok’s it to add to it.
      You do not have to write it all out, for the sake of time just list the verses.

      My 14 hr. days were long…but not quite eternal…yo
      the trinity does not claim that Jesus is the Father … Jesus is the manifestation of God in the flesh, and yes I would say Jesus is still in the “flesh” and will return in the “flesh”……easy

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    • joel228
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 12:12am

      So your answer is that those scriptures mean what you say they mean not what was said to the people they are written to. No disrespect intended but that is not logical and other than preaching to your own choir I’m not sure how that could convince anyone.

      Your scriptually unsupported idea that Jesus is the manifestation of god in the flesh is also unconvincing. Can you give me a single scripture that supports that?

      The scriptures have many references to other scriptures that we know nothing else about. Also some that indicate more to come.

      John 10:16 The other sheep are not the gentiles as they never heard the voice of Jesus. Anything that he speaks to other sheep is scripture. Would you reject the words they write?
      John 21:15 Would you reject any book that had the other works of Jesus?
      Jude 1:14,15 Can you please answer the question. Where did Moses get the information about Adam, Enoch, Abraham, etc?
      Josh 10:13 and 2 Sam 1:18 We don’t have the Book of Jasher but they did. Other scriptures did exist.
      1 Chr 29:29 We don’t have the Book of Nathan or the Book of Gad but they did.
      2 Chr 9:29 We don’t have the Book of Ahijah or the Book of Iddo but they did.
      2 Chr 12:15 We don’t have the Book of Shemaiah but they did.
      2 Chr 20:34 We don’t have the Book of Jehu but they did.
      Jer 36:32 Would you allow the author of a book of scripture to add to his own words?

      cont

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 12:13am

      Ezekiel 37 This whole chapter speaks of the bible (stick of Judah) being combined with the Book of Mormon (stick of Joseph)
      Isaiah 29 This whole chapter is in reference to the coming forth of The Book of Mormon.

      We also have the Dontrine and Covenents and The Pearl of Great Price. They contain increased knowledge far above both the Bible and the Book of Mormon
      The Book of Mormon is only one third of what was contained on the golden plates and is described as the lesser part. The other two thirds will likely be given us after the coming of Christ.

      You are fulfillment of this prophecy.
      http://lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/29?lang=eng

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 1:13am

      A false teacher I think would be someone who teaches their own private interpretation of scripture. That‘s not to say there can’t be differences in opinion as to what scripture means but when something is clear if not otherwise twisted such as the character of God then that is false teachings. False teaching is not always intentional but also from those that are deceived by false teachers from ages ago.

      A false teacher is also one that fights against true and correct doctrine. Again even good people can be false teachers just as Saul who later became Paul the apostle.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 1:06pm

      Yo joel228;
      I have NEVER said that what Moses said was not applicable as intended… NEVER, nor do I make ANYTHING to say as I wish it to be … NEVER ! I may not always have a correct understanding at a given moment but I DO NOT twist things to suit me… why would I choose to deceive myself ??? This would be foolish. I read a statement of wisdom from another once and it said; “that we should be BRUTALY honest with ourselves”. I do not try to do this.. I do this!, for it is to my benifit to do such.

      Jesus IS God… not appointed to, as you stated … I knew this was a red light. As far as scripture, I’m not sure there is much reason to list it, you would do not accept it because you add and take away from it and don’t consider it the FINAL authority.

      Deut 4:1-3
      Hear now, O Israel the decrees and laws I am about to teach you. Follow them so that you may live and may go in and take possesion of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you. Do not ADD to what command you and do not SUBTRACT from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

      I have a three tierd tic-tac-toe game so a one dimensional game by doing this becomes a three dimensional game. Do you not realize that God also commuinicates this way.

      I will continue this on the next post…

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 1:41pm

      tic-tac-toe
      Do you only understand this in “one dimension” ? When one reads these verses today they apply to the WHOLE council of God which is the bible,so it applied then to what was given and applies now to what is given. It becomes multi dimensional. I add nothing… God did the adding
      They speak today of possesing the land God gives …. the kingdom and all commands in the bible such as repent and be baptized. To get baptized is a command, is it not?

      *Jesus as God … when Jesus forgave a man of his sin the pharasies considered this blasphamy. Why?, because ONLY God can forgive sin, By Jesus doing this He was doing only what God can and has a right to do. The Jews understood this, but you do not.

      *Jesus as God … King of the Jews… Jesus HIMSELF (His own words) said He was. The Jews knew and know that only GOD is their rightful king.

      TWO VERY SIMPLE PRINCIPLES … no reason to add or take ANYTHING from them. They are self explainatory.
      I could list hundreds of verses… the bible itself is a parable of Christs divinity!
      When Jesus said let the little children come to me do you not realize that was a multi- dimensional statement and held a teaching for those that read today, that has nothing to do with physicaly hindering someone?

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 2:15pm

      Concerning the stick of Joseph… nothing more then the son of Jacob, Joseph of Egypt,spoken of in Genesis … again you add… and you say that I twist scripture to suit me ???
      Then you bring additional teachings into play (the pearl of great price) ?????
      Sorry, but 1+0=1,,, you 1+1=1 my logic is solid and wisdom says so even if you do not.
      Do you not see that when you add to scripture you allow the spirit of that into your heart and mind and therefore you cannot see the simple truth (the equation) right in front of your eyes, for if you do your belief system crumbles…
      As far as the other books and writings in 1-2Chr. I have, I believe already spoken to this 3 times.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 2:26pm

      I was here to discuss, not argue. I believe that I can say no more that would matter. I have kept it simple as the Lord leads me to (not an insult) as the Lord kept it simple to us.

      I went to the link… (the Second Book of Nephi) … which condemns me as a bible only guy. What you mean and use as condemnation the Lord will bless me for. I am not concerned for other then what scripture says and for this I do not apologize.
      I have enjoyed the “conversation” … may the Lord lead.

      Report Post »  
    • joel228
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 2:51pm

      So if I understand you right by “multi-dimensional” you are saying we need to apply the scriptures to ourselves. Is that right? I agree but doing the multi-dimensional thing is more of an argument for the need for continual revelation (i.e. scripture) so that we can know exactly what and how to apply the scriptures.
      God told Abraham to sacrifice his son. Does that mean we should all sacrifice any son we have? Of course not.
      We could follow the law of Moses and not eat certain meats, etc. But that law was fullfilled in Jesus after his death.
      I agree baptism is a commandment but why is it that so many that read the bible think it is only optional? Can anyone baptise anyone? Paul demonstrated that it has to be done with authority. All the more reason for continual prophetic revelation and scripture.
      As to Jesus, yes he is God but let’s not talk past each other. If he receives direction under the Father that does not take away anything from him. He can forgive sins of his own accord since he is the one that atones for sins. But what do you think he means when he said “I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.”
      http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/8.28?lang=eng#27

      cont

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 2:55pm

      (cont)
      If you continue with the false idea of an incomprehensible trinity we will continue to talk past each other with little real communication. You still have not answered where in the bible it speaks of Jesus as a manifestation of God in the flesh. All the scriptures make a clear distinction between the two. This in no way lessens Jesus to anything other than our God with full power and authority of the Father. He said “I go to my God and your God” John 20:17. Without Jesus we would all be cut off from God the Father forever. They are both our God and I say that in the singular knowing that they are still distint and seperate beings because essentially they are one God for us.

      I see you have ended the discussion. So be it. Take care

      Report Post » joel228  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 3:42pm

      Yes Joel228 we apply scripture to our own lives.

      Jesus also said that everything He (Jesus) asks for His father gives him. These verses speak to the complete obedience of Jesus as a human (in the flesh). It is relational… there is a relationship within the God head. This is part of being created in the image of God… human relationships… a family.. it is a reflection of the Godhead!

      Incomprehensable… do you claim to know everything of God ? He is endless!… even David said that there are things that are beyond him so why even spend the time thinking about them (pharaphased).

      I understand the “trinity” and at the same time… YES it is a mystery … we see through a glass darkly as scripture says.

      I gave you TWO simple examples that Jesus IS God, one His own words and yet you ignore them ???
      Which is why I did not luist more.
      You say…“continual prophetic revelation and scripture” sorry but the prophetic, “ thus says the LORD” ended in the Old Testiment.

      We all learn more about God as we mature as I have already spoken to this … there is a VAST difference between learning what already is and adding more to ….!!!

      Baptism and why people would think it is optional ….BECAUSE THEY DO NOT LET IT SAY WHAT IT PLANILY, CLEARLY SAYS…. thankyou… my whole point …yo

      Report Post »  
    • joel228
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 4:37pm

      I guess we are still going a little. Maybe one last reply before moving on. Let me just say I appreciate your civility as most anti Mormon posts are incredibly immature. Most likely 20 year olds that still act like teenagers. Just curious. I would guess you are relatively young but still able to behave maturely.

      As to ignoring your examples that Jesus is God how can you say that when I say the same thing? For the hundredth time “JESUS is GOD”. That is where we talk past each other. Because you don’t see the plain teachings that God the Father, his son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are all distinct beings yet united in all they do under the direction of the Father. They all make up the Godhead and Jesus is our God as much as the Father is but he receives direction from his Father (and our Father) the Father of our spirits. Jesus is not the Father of our spirits but can be called our father through his atonement and that the Father gives us to him because without him we go nowhere. But if I say there are multiple gods as the scriptures do you will accuse me of contradicting the scriptures that say there is one God. Paul said there are gods many and lords many but to us there is but one God. Asaph the prophet said our God is a god of gods. In many scriptures Jesus makes a distinction between him and his father.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 4:38pm

      No the Old Testament did not end prophets or prophecy or scripture from prophets or “thus saith the Lord”. That’s another example of the teachings you get from false teachers.
      Acts 7:49
      Acts 15:17
      1 Corinthians 14:21
      2 Corinthians 6:17,18
      Hebrews 8:9,10
      Hebrews 10:16,30
      Romans 12:19
      Romans 14:11
      Revelation 1:8
      Revelation 14:13
      Revelation 22:20

      Report Post » joel228  
    • Huguenot Descendant
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 5:19pm

      @4truth2all

      I see no indication in where you provided facts that Jesus is God other than the fact that Jesus and God the Fathers will are the same. There is even more scripture that supports the facts that Jesus and God are two separate beings than there are that say they’re the same. Case in point:

      Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

      Luke 2:52 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

      John 1:1 Word was with God, and the Word was God.

      John 5:18 Said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

      John 5:20 Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things; 8:29 Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father; 14:11 I am in the Father, and the Father in me.

      Acts 7:55 Saw… Jesus standing on the right hand of God.

      Hebrews 1:2 his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things.

      Luke 23: 34: Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

      And there is so much more than this. There are so many scriptures where Jesus the Savior prays to God to Father, even shouting his name from a mountain top calling for his Father. There are many more that explain why he calls himself God because they are the same in will. He and the Father in Heaven have the same knowledge and beliefs, but they are two separate beings.

      Report Post » Huguenot Descendant  
    • Huguenot Descendant
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 5:32pm

      @4truth2all (cont.)

      The fact is why would Jesus pray to himself if he was the Father in Heaven? Why would he need to pray at all? Why would Jesus claim to be two separate beings from God, but only claiming they have the same will? The questions to all these is not some complex theory, it’s right in the bible, it’s because they ARE two separate beings WITH the same will.

      I mean what more PROOF do you need from the Bible than Acts 7:55-56:

      55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

      56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

      The fact and evidence is right there in the Bible, but you choose to follow that the meaning the will of Jesus the savior and God the Father are the same, must mean that the two personages of the same. Even though Jesus explained that they have the same will. They are the same, but they are two separate personages. And the Father gave Jesus the authority to be God of man which is why Jesus can be considered God. Hebrews 1:1-2:

      1 God, who aat sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

      2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

      Really is it so hard to believe in the words of the Bible?

      Report Post » Huguenot Descendant  
    • Huguenot Descendant
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 5:48pm

      @4truth2all

      The fact 4truth2all is that I don’t think you will ever open your mind or heart to the teachings of what the bible has explained. If you are going by the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, but who set up the Roman Catholic Church? It was a Roman Emperor a man whom appointed the Pope to be leader of the church.

      If you truly seek truth, than why are you so closed off to the teachings of what the LDS principals are trying to distort anything Joel says? He has given you evidence after evidence through the Bible in scripture to say that the Savior is the Lord because he inherited God’s will, but they are still two separate personages.

      Are you really open to truth at all. If you are than maybe you should pray to God and try to receive the answer yourself with a open heart and unclosed mind that you may get the answer if God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ are two separate beings. I know I have, and I know my answer that they are in fact two beings.

      I know, sometimes the hardest thing to do is being open to another beliefs. But again, what would Jesus do in this situation? I am sorry if I am coming off as forceful. But we LDS members are indeed Christians, no matter what you may say, we will stand by that for time and all eternity.

      Report Post » Huguenot Descendant  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 5:53pm

      We talkin yet…
      what does my age be it 25,55,85,have to do with anything … what do you imply, I could read into that an insinuation….?
      What good does it do to make and enemy ?
      gods and lords… = human… even the angels are not gods.
      Is the Spirit the spirit of Christ?

      Concerning your verses …
      Acts 7:49
      Is a quote from Isaiah 66;1-2, what does this have to do with further prophecy?
      Acts 15:17
      again quotes from Amos 9:11-12, what does this have to do with further prophecy?
      Revelation 22:20 says… “He who testifies to these things says, ( Jesus words) – “Yes I am comming soon” … what does this have to do with further prophecy
      The prophets were the means by which God communicated directly, after which came Jesus… end of the prophetic… I do not disqualify the prophetic gifts of the Spirit that Paul speaks of.

      Concerning whom I listen to, you have no idea who I listen to unless I tell you, I did not , so that is a statement of ignorance.
      Hangin by a thread or on a thread, but time is calling me elsewhere
      I will say mine is not to judge… in the Lords eyes I can only hope that you are saved … maybe we will speak again…if we could meet personally I would even buy the coffee, unless you drink tea, then I’ll feed you to my dogs…unlike me, they love tea drinkers…yo

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 6:23pm

      Yo Huguenot Descendant:
      I will quickly respond as I am here… did not read you posts well but noticed a couple of things glancing over them.
      1.) I NEVER said Jesus and God are the same I realize they are distinct (maybe my mistake in explaining).
      2.) NEVER said Mormans were not “christians”… I am not the judge
      3.) I have PLAINLY stated that I do indeed believe scripture, so no, you do not come off as “forceful” you speak AT me and this usually indicates arrogance, and a lack of humility.
      4.) You list … John 1:1 the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning… please read — John 1:14 The Word became FLESH and made his dwelling among us.
      These verses from John 1:1-18 make my point that Jesus and the Father are seperate , but that Jesus IS God.
      Word is God
      Word is with God
      Word becomes flesh = Jesus
      Jesus is Word – Word IS God
      Simple math……..thanks

      Report Post »  
    • joel228
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 6:39pm

      Geeez 4truth2all. I try giving you a compliment and you take it like an insult. I think you are young partly because you keep saying “yo”. I suppose you could be up to about 30 but I doubt it. Especially now that you don’t even recognize a compliment. I say late teens to early 20s. No it has nothing to do with the discussion just trying to see how well I judge your age from the discussion. Nothing else. I’m 54 in case it matters. Just a grumpy old man talking to smart aleck teenagers on the Blaze blogs.

      All those scriptures I gave contain a variation of “says the Lord”. You said that stopped with the Old Testament so I was just showing where it continues. Even if some were New Testament prophets quoting Old Testament prophets. Just like Jesus who also quoted Old Testament prophets they were all prophets.

      Read Revelation 11 and tell me that there will be no new prophets or prophecies. Even our living prophets as far as I know don’t know who these will be. Except won’t you be surprised when they turn out to be “mormons”. Will you be one of the many that celebrates their deaths with gifts?

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 6:59pm

      Your reply to Huguenot is very confusing. To me you seem to defend the “trinity” concept. But you say “I NEVER said Jesus and God are the same I realize they are distinct”
      That doesn’t sound very trinitarian to me. Or is that part of the mystery that we can never understand even though life eternal depends on it?

      Why don’t you come out and tell me who your teachers are? I assume you are evangelical or maybe a community of Christ person except they think baptism is optional and you don’t. Am I right about that? You once asked me if I was JW or Mormon because you like to know who you are talking to. Can you reciprocate?

      Report Post » joel228  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 10:37pm

      Yo Joel 228:
      My apologies on the compliment, I think… was the teenager thing a compliment ? Cause I’m thinkin your turn to apologize. Actually I am 14 no really it’s 78…. now my question is this… if I am 14 do I make for mature, or if it’s 78 do I now become much dummer. Interesting how 2 letters (yo) paints a picture in you’re mind of who I am and how you judge based on that. (we all do it to some extent). So you’re 54; based on the conversation I would have gussed 25…yo ha …ha… and …ha I will give you this I am not an old man and I am not grumpy. I think you would probably be surprised by the “age” of those that seem immature here.
      Prophesies …I said that I am not against the gifts of prophecy mentioned by Paul as mentioned in 1 Cor.14 which applies to Rev 11— I can say to you; tomorrow God will bring light to you’re eyes and this would be a prophetic statement. I do not ADD to what has already be spoken of Christ. there is a BIG difference… do you not know this?
      Yes I have been saving up for my gift… must they be “mormons”… I don’t care who they are, they are chosen by God why would I have a problem with that … are you sure you’re not 5… come on! I don’t do the label thing that is why I go to a bible preaching non-denominational church and listen to many many people in my search for truth. I don’t just play in my own yard.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 2, 2012 at 11:08pm

      Concerning Jesus…I think you have a misperception of the “trinity” that is taught. John 1:1-14 explains it very well as I said to “Huguenot”. I again apologize if I have confused you with my lacking in explination. If I keep apologizing do I get older? I should be a wise old man by now!

      I can go to a remote place and at night see the milky way… can I comprehend the vastness and complexity of it even when I see it with my own eyes…NOT EVEN CLOSE !!!

      I understand The father, Son and Holy Spirit as seperate but the same.. Mystery is NOT confusion. The universe is small compaired to God, I will not in this life pretent to “know” it all. The mystery of God is intended by God to encourage us on and does not disqualify. I do not take away the deity of Christ.
      “Repent and be baptized” no one told me this but God Himself…and when I read it I got baptized…again…simple!
      My teacher… the Holy Spirit I have enjoyed our conversation …even if you are a morman…sorry…mormon…yo

      Report Post »  
    • Huguenot Descendant
      Posted on January 3, 2012 at 2:11am

      @4truth2all

      I am taking my scripture from the KJV of the bible. Which states that the Word was with God, and the Word is God. If what your math says is correct than how come it also states the Word was with God. Does that mean God is with himself? I can understand your logic on the Word is God. But the reason the Word is God is because the Word inherited all of Gods things, including his will and title. Again this is proven in Hebrews 1:1-2

      1 God, who aat sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

      2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

      And again if you find it simple enough to do math and claim that that means the trinity is correct, than please once again read Acts 7:55-56

      55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

      56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

      Two people standing next to next to each other than how can your math be correct? I have already shown you why Jesus is called also God and given discrete evidence from the bible that Jesus and God are two separate beings. But it is your belief and I have nothing against what you believe in, after all we are both Christians.

      I am sorry you took offense about me saying LDS are Christians, that really wasn’t

      Report Post » Huguenot Descendant  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 3, 2012 at 1:52pm

      Yo Huguenot:
      You are late to the conversation and I am on my way out here. However. I will respond… I did not take offence at anything you said I only responded as such because I was accused of doing something that is not part of who I am as a follower of Christ.
      The Word says to take the WHOLE council of the Lord… I have given 2 examples of Christ IS God and said that I could provide much,much, more scripture to do so.(I kept it simple on purpose) I do not ignore the “other” scripture some of which you provided… it would seem that you do what you accuse me of in ignoring the simple direct scripture I provided. I will offer another since we just passed the Christmas season.. Immanuel, which means as you probably know“God with us” prophesied about in Isaiah 7:14.. do you discount this?

      God speaking with Himself … Genesis 1:26.. Then God said, “Let US make man in OUR image and likeness”.. Who do you think the US is?

      Yes, I fully believe that the whole council of the Word (scripture) tells us that God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit are indeed seperate but the same.. there is a relational aspect of the Godhead the “trinity” if one wishes to call it .. I really don’t care what you call it, it exists! The things of heaven are dimly reflected in this world. We as people are relational, it is by design to reflect God Himself. There are many examples of this in our world that wisdom has showm me. I am not going to take the deity of Christ away

      Report Post »  
    • Huguenot Descendant
      Posted on January 3, 2012 at 5:22pm

      @4truth2all

      I am glad that you did not take offense to my words. I tried to post more but again The Blaze screwed up and did not post my last comments or my second word of text. What I tried to tell you is that I wasn’t directing that LDS church are Christians to you, but more so to those people who posted above that said we aren’t Christians. So again I am sorry about the confusion there.

      I have already provided the evidence as to why the Savior calls himself God is because he inherited that title from God the father. So I understand why you are saying what you are saying.. and I am reading what you write, but I am also posting the evidence from the bible as to why I disagree with you. I understand we have differences and that is ok, as long as we have peace between us that is all I care about.

      @Joel

      I tried to post this before but again it didn’t show up. I wanted to tell you that I am a believer in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I don’t know exactly what you were confused about from my posts, I am a believer in the Godhead not the trinity. I believe that God the Father, and the Son Jesus Christ are two separate resurrected beings as we will be on the second coming. The Godhead consists of Elohim, Jehovah, and the Holy Spirit whom I all believe are three persons to be physically separate beings, or personages, but united in will and purpose.

      Report Post » Huguenot Descendant  
    • joel228
      Posted on January 3, 2012 at 6:09pm

      Huguenot Descendant, I was not confused about your post. I perfectly understand all that. I was addressing 4truth2all and telling him that his reply to you was confusing. It seemed contradictory from what he had been telling me. The problem with discussing the nature of God with those that are steeply indoctrinated with the trinity doctrine is that words don’t mean the same any more. You can say God the Father and Jesus Christ are separate and distinct and they can say they agree but they still both as offshoots from one unknowable substance.

      Sorry for not making that clear but I think if you read it again you will see that I was addressing him.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • Huguenot Descendant
      Posted on January 4, 2012 at 7:15pm

      @joel228

      Yes, thank you indeed for clarifying that to me. I was really tired that night which I know isn’t an excuse, but I just wasn’t really paying attention to what I was reading all that well. I agree with you that some of the things 4truth has said to me contradicts his arguments in the past with you about believing in the trinity but confirming that God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ are separate beings. But whatever he believes in is ok with me as that is his choice to believe, which is why God sent Jesus who wanted to give everyone a right to choose to earth instead of Lucifer who wanted force others to believe in his one truth. You and I both believe in the Godhead and we believe our church is the true church, and I am sure the same can be said about 4truth and his church and/or beliefs which I am sure consists of Christian principals. We aren’t going to get anywhere bible thumping verses to each other creating a further conflict which is what Lucifer loves, it does not bring the spirit to us at all. So far our discussions have been peaceful and I think we should leave it at that, in peace. After all that is what Christ would do. But again thank you for clarifying it to me. :)

      Report Post » Huguenot Descendant  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on January 4, 2012 at 11:06pm

      Yo Huguenot:
      I have not contradicted myself.. I may have explained poorly
      The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are seperate but the same… all God , all eternal….
      final issue.. I do not believe in my“ church”… you and JW do this… they think they are the only true christians/ church, you say you are. The church is people not organizations. I believe in Christ… it is by faith.

      Report Post »  
    • Huguenot Descendant
      Posted on January 5, 2012 at 7:25pm

      @4truth

      I don’t understand how you can admittedly say that the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit are separate but still openly admit that you believe in the trinity. That is how I do believe you have contradicted yourself, but I am not complaining to you about it. As I said you will believe in what you believe in and there is nothing that will change that, I understand.

      That aside, yes I do believe that my church is the true church of Jesus Christ. I believe that Christ set up the church I am apart of through the prophet Joseph Smith. I am not going to deny because I believe it. But that again doesn’t mean I shun or look my nose up at any other church, I have respect for other christian churches and those who are faithful to their church.

      Report Post » Huguenot Descendant  
  • red_white_blue2
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:30pm

    This seems like a moment that if Jesus materialized in front of them, and told the parable of the ye without sin cast the first stone–I would love to see people humbled again and toss their bricks and stones aside realizing that all of this has been the wrong answer.

    Report Post » red_white_blue2  
    • JustPeachy
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:50pm

      . . . or in their case, their brooms. ;-)

      Too bad Jesus didn’t appear and begin writing in the dirt. . .!

      Report Post » JustPeachy  
    • lukerw
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 4:53pm

      Some how, I think… they would try to Kill him, again!

      Report Post » lukerw  
    • Worldsapart
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:11pm

      …writing in the dirt…
      Peachy you’re a genius. Hilarity!

      Report Post »  
  • Fay
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:30pm

    And you wonder why folks are “leaving” their churches?? I don’t believe for one minute that these men are “Christian” in any way, shape, or form! Then again, Revelations tells us that “children will be against parents”, government against government, etc., etc., etc.! This just leaves a bad taste in my mouth now when I say “I’m a Christian”, especially if folks see these things and relate them to “all” Christians. Would I be sanctimonious by saying “forgive them Father, they know not what they do”??? Nor do we, I’m afraid!

    Report Post » Fay  
    • foobear
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 10:26am

      I don’t think people have been leaving their churches because of the ongoing feud between the EO and Armenian Churches.

      They’ve been leaving their churches because their church leaders are out of touch with the Bible, and out of touch with real life, especially when it comes to sex.

      Report Post » foobear  
  • W@nd@
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:13pm

    There is a way that seems right to man
    but the end there in is distruction.!
    All ‘religion’ is man made.
    The Word of God is true and everyman a liar!
    The Word (the Bible) is a guide to the individual…
    the handbook for life…
    Gods plan is revealed in it’s pages
    for the individual…
    it is filled with love, guidance, wisdom, history, poetry, motivation, and Truth
    (and of course consequences! )
    Everything you would like to know about life,
    why God created you are revealed to the hEARt of each individual
    that opens it up seeking will find!
    It’s an inspired hEARt book to all!

    Seems these fellows should spend more time in the Word
    and less time in bogus turf wars!

    Report Post »  
    • JustPeachy
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:48pm

      Very true, W@nd@. I’ve tried to explain to some people how Christianity is a faith NOT a “religion” (which IS man-made) but many people don’t seem to GET this fact.

      These men are likely parts of two different RELIGIONS.

      It‘s not to say that people of true faith in Jesus can’t sometimes also fight–because we sure can and do! But if we’re growing in Christ and the knowledge of His Word, there should be less and less of us and more and more of Him. ;-)

      IF these two are of the faith, they have some growin’ to do! ;-)

      Report Post » JustPeachy  
  • LondoMollari
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:07pm

    They should have better things to do….like convert Muslims.

    And for the “Jesus only” crowd….sounds like an excuse to sleep in and watch the NFL all Sunday.

    Report Post »  
  • elihu
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:53am

    Let it be known that these man-organized “christian religions” are not Christian at all.

    Report Post » elihu  
    • saranda
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:12pm

      @Elihu – please enlighten me, which ones are not “man organized”? I can think of none myself.

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:21pm

      Actually they are and also are not, but that there are Christians in their houses. And it’s like that they are the branches, and the Apostles who were the founders of many houses are the “oil” on the waters on which to flow. Who actually names the Saints, but the Lord alone and is reserved to the Lord because the Lord knows the hearts of men.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:32pm

      I wish not to speak for “Elihu”…but I’m sure the “one” you know of but do not accept is Christ.Christ is not made of men… men are made of Christ … this “truth‘ does not exist based on you’re opinion or mine, you’re acceptence or denial, or mine.

      You do not make truth … just as you do not make the sky blue … call it green and you become the part of truth that denies itself … this would be called foolish, and like looking in the mirror and saying that you do not exist.

      Report Post »  
  • oitsugina
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:46am

    Makes me sad

    Report Post »  
    • AB5r
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 9:38pm

      It is sad, but it is also sort of like a Monty Python sketch. Also note how the large group of police just happened to be there on the ready to move in.

      What they need to do is evict the Muslims from the Temple Mount entirely. One reason the Muslims were able to take over so much territory right when it was first invented was that even back then various groups of Christians were fighting with one another and the Muslims would just take advantage of that and play one side off against the other. Now the Muslims are doing the same thing to the West playing the liberals against the religious. While everyone is fighting the Muslims take over.

      Report Post » AB5r  
  • Biddle
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:37am

    Babylon, mystery religion! Relics, lands, statues, rites, etc. Everything but love! Know that Christ said the “time is now, when true worshippers worship in spirit and truth,” – regardless of title, location, property. There is no distinction between peoples other than their position in Christ!!! Religion has failed us! There is only the Lord.

    Report Post »  
  • Ghandi was a Republican
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:24am

    “riot police” had to break it up is a little bit of a reach. They may have been there in large numbers, that’s about it. A better question is WHAT started it and why do i smell the stink of alinksy tricksterism all up in ‘dis place? What, started it?

    Report Post » Ghandi was a Republican  
    • Bearfoot
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:38am

      Jesus said we could recognize his true followers (Christians) if they had love among themselves.

      This group fails the test. Hate causes strife.

      Report Post » Bearfoot  
    • Biddle
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:51am

      Pride.

      Report Post »  
    • Believe It
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 3:28pm

      What started it…? “Orthodox and Armenian clerics clashed in a dispute over the boundaries of their respective jurisdictions inside the church”

      They share the church during the holiday season, having sections assigned to them. This foments “turf wars” like this when someone thinks their territory has been invaded by someone from another group.

      Report Post »  
    • ChartreuseMuse
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 3:57pm

      They do this every year I hear . . . if these “learned” men who supposedly know more of the story of love, compassion, forgiveness, etc. act like this, and then their U.S. versions of the same act as they do here in this nation and around the world, then it only serves to reaffirm my belief that religion was invented by men and exists only as a form of social control for the masses from the day the first caveman invented a supernatural story as an explanation for the thunder, lightning, seasons, etc and was given an extra lump of meat for pacifying the frightened tribe.

      Report Post »  
  • 11:11
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:21am

    wow the holier than thou chip on the shoulder strikes again, wonder what the pope is thinking?

    Report Post » 11:11  
    • Ghandi was a Republican
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:26am

      The “pope” is NOT the voice, nor the head of Christianity. The “pope” is the head and voice of the “Catholic” church. Armenian and Greek sects seem top have their own territorial disputes.

      Report Post » Ghandi was a Republican  
    • lukerw
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:33am

      The Byzantine Empire built these Churches… for operation by Eastern Othodox Clergy… where the Popes have negotiated a Time Share funding arrangement… and there are often Scheduling & Holiday conflicts.

      Report Post » lukerw  
    • 11:11
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:40am

      @ ghandi totally understand your view and me being a recovering catholic i was making a joke

      Report Post » 11:11  
  • ares338
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:11am

    Ahhhhhh……I love the smell of religion in the morning!

    Report Post » ares338  
  • Eliasim
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:10am

    That’s because the “Meek” are saying, “Maybe it was the birthplace of Jesus, and maybe it wasn’t, but I will chew on it a while to see what happens, and not get angry”, and the righteous are saying, “Ah, the birthplace of Jesus isn‘t what’s important, but that a woman laboring to be delivered, and the fact that Jesus actually existed is what’s important.”

    Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:13am

      Notice that I said “Woman” and not female.

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:31am

      People need to teach “Guardian Angel” or “Brother” teachings more often. Like two people who have never met each other drink from the same waterfall of “Waters” and they know each other but not. And yet they have a brother in common. But if their brother was to die hidden behind a hard heart and therefore hopefully the lord may say “Remove the stone from the sepulcher, and come forth.”

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:40am

      How is it people put such little thought into the Bible, except out of the hardness of their heart? The Lord says to build him an alter of earth (that be of spirit in your child, so that the child may see high in their heart to the mountain tops, and maybe unto the face of the Lord, from the deep we live in here o the face of the earth), but if you build an alter of stone (that is a hard child), that you must approach that child with a nakedness of heart, by steps.

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:47am

      And even still all you people believe Jesus Christ literally raised a human named Lazarus from the dead, but that he was spirit. And even though Jesus Christ said for this generation “There will be no signs”, you still perceive that Jesus performed physical miracles.

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:55am

      Why would I as a Father take my child and show him all I can do, when he has no understanding of how I got to that place? I wouldn’t because he would surely die(in spirit). Therefore I go by steps while showing my nakedness of heart. Therefore there is no way on God‘s green earth that Jesus performed literal ’In our face” miracles.

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:06pm

      And it’s because of the millions of children whose hearts have been damaged by showing them too much too soon as toddlers that their spirit has been destroyed, and they want what the parents have immediately instead of step by step. And America is filled with corruption, and it creates a general consensus in the spirit realm of a Communistic nature that fills the hearts of men, and they drink from that crooked river.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:13pm

      Dear Eliasim:
      The story of Lazarus is told as a TRUE story > an actual event in time. If not, then the bible lies.

      Second… scripture clearly states that the miracles Jesus did were to show us that He indeed was from heaven… “THE CHRIST”.

      Either I mis-understand you’re posts, or you are simply incorrect.

      Report Post »  
    • Bearfoot
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:38pm

      4truth2all. – The story of Lazarus is told as a TRUE story > an actual event in time. If not, then the bible lies.

      Matthew 13:34-35 should be considered when anyone makes a statement like yours.
      The Bible is not lying and neither did our Lord when he spoke to the crowds using parables, illustrations. Using words to paint a ‘picture’ to teach is a technique used by nearly everyone.

      An example of an parable or illustration using these priests in the story: Don’t pet a flaming dog.
      Everyone knows how to interpret that parable.

      Report Post » Bearfoot  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 1:25pm

      Yo Bearfoot:
      Please put your broom down … I know what a parable is and it’s purpose, thankyou. There is more then one Lazarus mentioned in scripture. I was refering to the post concerning the friend of Jesus. This is not a parable but AN ACTUAL EVENT. I will always stand corrected if wrong, don’t think “I” need to do so here.

      I also NEVER said that the bible lies…

      Report Post »  
    • Old Truckers
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 1:49pm

      4truth,

      Maybe next time it would be good to identify which Lazarus you are referring to. The Lazarus who was resurrected by Jesus is of course true but the illustration of Lazurus and the rich man is not a actual physical event.

      Bearfoot, sorry but you made the same mistake.

      Report Post » Old Truckers  
    • Bearfoot
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 1:57pm

      OldTruckers,

      Thanks, your counsel is received and appreciated. :-)

      Report Post » Bearfoot  
    • 1776freedomofspeech
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 2:37pm

      Looks like a Harry Potter movie gone wild.

      Report Post » 1776freedomofspeech  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 2:55pm

      Yo Old Truckers:
      I’m confused here …My post was to another and what they said. There was no reason for me to explain which Lazarus I was talking about as I was speaking to what they said. Did you and BEARFOOT not go back and read the others posts … maybe you should have done THAT.

      Yo BEARFOOT: thanks for the apology… not … don’t want it or need it … when I make a mistake I apologize directly to … not someone else … ???

      Report Post »  
    • Bearfoot
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 8:42pm

      4truth2all,

      Thanks, your counsel is received and appreciated also. :-)

      Would you believe this is my first mistake?

      Report Post » Bearfoot  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 9:51am

      Yo Bearfoot:
      I would believe you an honest person … so if you tell me such…yes. If you lie, it’s on you, but I am not a fool either.
      If we are talking about life then I would recognize this to not be possible. You made a mistake… big deal, that is not the issue. The issue is what does one do after that. It takes humility, respect and courage to admit and apologize. My purpose for wanting to see an apology is for your benifit. I brought the mistake to you’re attention, and I have a hope that you are a “true christian” with some maturity and do as you should. I hold this hope for ALL of “us” that indeed the world would know us from the light that shines out…. blessings

      Report Post »  
    • YellowFin
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 11:04am

      4truth,
      Give it a rest!

      Report Post » YellowFin  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 12:24pm

      Yo Yellowfin:
      Explain… or go fishin…I have shown no disrespect to anyone and have as much right to “speak” here as you or anyone else, and I certainly do not stop because you say so.

      Report Post »  
    • YellowFin
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 12:46pm

      4truth,

      I’m not talking about your “right to post here, I’m talking about how you are not good at accepting contrary views and of your inability to accept apologies from others. You just have to take exception to almost every thing someone says. Apologies were given, give it a rest now, and try to accept it graciously.
      I do not normally respond to your posts for this reason, but sometimes you get very obnoxious.

      Just some friendly counsel from yellowfin.

      Report Post » YellowFin  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 1:38pm

      Yo Yellowfin:
      I have no problem with what another person thinks or their take on matters. I do TRY to speak and seek the truth concerning God’s word. I have never claimed perfection. I spoke the truth about what scripture says.. someone else misunderstood that… I defended my position which was in this case absolutely correct and I encouraged. I did not speak ill of anyone. As far as apologies … none were given until I pushed the subject and explained why.
      Obnoxious: disgustingly objectionable: highly offensive … I would not see my postings this way and would indeed not wish to come across this way … so please, next time my posts make you feel this way, let me know and explain why… I’m good with that.

      Report Post »  
  • Lotus503
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:05am

    See what happens? Turn the other cheek and someone smacks it with a broom!

    Report Post »  
    • Greenwood
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 1:02pm

      @BEARFOOT…………….”Who really is the faithful and discreet slave……………..
      Not someone with a broom beating his fellow slaves. The master will not be pleased.

      Report Post » Greenwood  
  • Dismayed Veteran
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:04am

    Just think the fight between two Christian clergy had to broken up by muslims. That is ironic.

    Report Post » Dismayed Veteran  
    • Bearfoot
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:40am

      It’s pathetic.

      Report Post » Bearfoot  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:59am

      One of the reasons that I often don’t refer to myself as a “christian ” any more. The word has been polluted by satan. I am a follower of Christ, I am not perfect. The church is not the body of Christ. There are many in the “church” that are not followers of Christ. There is NO ONE in the body that is not a follower!

      Report Post »  
    • Bearfoot
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:18pm

      Jesus indicated that not all would be measuring up to his standards and being true Christians in the “last days”.

      He asked, and then told us who would be doing his will in Matthew 24:45-51

      It is unreasonable to think that everyone calling themselves Christian would actually be true followers of our Lord, Jesus.

      Report Post » Bearfoot  
    • COFemale
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:51pm

      This is called arrogance in my book. When one thinks their _______ don’t stink, is when problems will ensue. I think a lesson in humbleness and perhaps a long sit down to read the Bible again.

      Religion can be misused by well intentioned people. This is why I now lean non-denomination. I will determine how I will serve the Lord based on his teachings in the Bible. There may be times I get it wrong and I will self-correct. I don‘t need a denomination telling me I can’t drink, when the Bible talks about drinking wine within reason, I don’t need a denomination telling me not to drink, coffee or tea or other caffeine drink because they consider caffeine a drug, I don’t need a denomination to tell me how to manage the birth of children or not to wear makeup. None of these have nothing to do with serving the Lord. As long as I keep the Commandments to the best of my ability, honor God, believe in Christ that is good enough for me. I don’t care what someone else, my world does not revolve around you.

      Report Post » COFemale  
    • Greenwood
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 1:08pm

      @BEARFOOT…….”Who really is the faithful and discreet slave……………..
      Not someone with a broom beating his fellow slaves. The master will not be pleased

      Report Post » Greenwood  
    • Bearfoot
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 2:23pm

      Greenwood, you are right about that.

      The question remains for everyone here to carefully consider; Who is the faithful and discreet slave Jesus was talking about in Matthew 24:45?

      Report Post » Bearfoot  
    • ChartreuseMuse
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 4:02pm

      My first thought too . . . the much-maligned Palestinians have to break up a fight between the self-righteous Christians . . . although my Baptist Sunday school teacher taught us that Catholics of any sort were not Christians, and a whole bunch of other interesting “facts.”

      Report Post »  
  • Skee
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:01am

    And that’s why Athiests are growing in numbers.
    These Christian sects established centuries ago,
    designed to keep the pope and others in control
    of the population are done. They are the only group
    more corrupt than politicians.

    Report Post » Skee  
    • lukerw
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:26am

      The view… that Religious Clergy are the most corrupt people in the World… is very Strange!

      Report Post » lukerw  
    • The-Real-Enrico
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:33am

      Very true. The Catholic church should disassemble. I believe can saved/born again but their institute is corrupt and fled at best. Too much people worshiping. Like the Pope, Mary and even symbolic jewelry/image worship.

      I would think we should focus God and his teachings and actually practice them is good enough. These priest don’t seem very Christ-like to me.

      If people know their history they would know that the Catholic church created by that state government(Roman empire) to control the Christians. The christian at that time would have rather had been put to death then to follow their corrupt government. Then that how we the much hated crusaders. Again that how we got Jew and other killing under the of the supposed Christian Catholic church and their Pope.

      Another example of what happens with the state government take control of something. If you can’t beat them hijack their message, right.

      Report Post » The-Real-Enrico  
    • JustMel71
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:06pm

      @The-Real-Enrico Your ignorance is exactly what I’m referring to with the religious war coming. The different types of Christian denominations fighting each other and pinning against each other. Saying “The Catholic church should disassemble” and “Too much people worshiping. Like the Pope, Mary and even symbolic jewelry/image worship.” you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.

      Yes I wear a crucifix on my chain to remind me the sacrifice Jesus made for us, God’s children not as a replacement of God or to worship something as you put it symbolic jewelry but to remind me to give to humanity before myself. I‘m sorry you enjoy the Catholic Church is the ’evil empire’ of the world garbage but I have not nor will I ever get into a battle of religious beliefs but I will make it a point for other so called Christians to think before they speak. God Bless you Enrico, may the Lord walk with you always.

      I am starting to wonder if Glenn Beck & The Blaze staff is really trying to bestow the whole idea of the ‘white horse prophecy’ upon his/their gullible audience. Mormon elders saying the constitution, yeah okay. Whatever…

      Report Post » JustMel71  
    • lukerw
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:06pm

      @THE…
      In about 333 ad, the to be Emperor, Constantine, of the Roman Empire… from York, England, form Christians into Legions… and they beat the Traditional Roman Legions of Italy… whereby he rewarded their Faith by establishing Christianity as the Temple of Rome.

      In about 800 ad, the Emperor, Charlemagne, of the Holy Roman Empire… created Leo as Pope.

      Simply, Christians created and supported the form of their Government & Rulers!

      Report Post » lukerw  
    • by faith
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 3:05pm

      Ok rocket scientist
      1. The people in the broom fight are NOT Catholic
      2. They have NO allegiance to the Pope
      3. Constantine did not come into power until the early 300’s. As early as the 2nd half of the 1st century, you can find writings referring to THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Constantine was the first Christian emperor and he ended the persecutions of Christians.
      Something Catholic haters still do to this day.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • amerigramma
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 3:14pm

      Actually, according to http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm Christianity is still way ahead of the rest of the religions in the world. It has a following of 33% of the world’s population. Atheism has 2.5%. But all Christians are called to love EVERYONE and to pray for everyone and to serve everyone. But all Christians on earth are humans and humans sin and fail, a lot. We forget what we are supposed to be doing, usually in the heat of the moment but also fail in so many ways. The Lord loves us all and wants us to love and serve each other fully. All of us, all of the time, while not being a doormat for those who want to crush us.

      Report Post »  
    • by faith
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 3:39pm

      Charlemagne created Leo as Pope?

      Pope Leo III was Pope from December 27, 795 til his death June 12, 816
      He was proceded by Pope Adrian I (February 1, 772 – December 25, 795)
      A list going back to Peter can be found by a simple google search

      on Christmas Day 800 AD, Leo crowned Charlemagne as Roman emperor.

      Leo had been Pope for nearly 5 years before HE crowned Chalemagne, not Charlemagne created Leo

      Report Post » by faith  
    • SavedByTheLamb
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 5:57pm

      This is like one big creative writing exercise for promoters of Apostasy, Schism, and Heresy.

      Here is your assignment:

      In 200 words or more, write a paragraph that disparages religion, the Pope, the Clergy, the Catholic Church, recommends personal interpretation of the Bible, ignores the fact that the New Testament wasn’t canonized by the Catholic Church until the 4th century. Please do not mention that Jesus left us a Church (i.e. The Catholic Church), not an instruction manual. Even if the story isn’t about the Catholic Church, be sure to ignore this fact and make as many false and anti-Catholic claims as possible. (e.g. Mary Worship, Saint Worship, etc.).

      rofl

      Report Post »  
    • by faith
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 6:20pm

      SavedbytheLamb
      would this qualify under your stated parameters(Or am I disqualified for using facts?):
      “Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides… No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.” (’Let Your Sins Be Strong, from ‘The Wittenberg Project;‘ ’The Wartburg Segment’, translated by Erika Flores, from Dr. Martin Luther’s
      “Those pious souls who do good to gain the Kingdom of Heaven not only will never succeed, but they must even be reckoned among the impious; and it is more important to guard them against good works than against sin.” (Wittenberg, VI, 160, quoted by O’Hare, in ‘The Facts About Luther, TAN Books, 1987, p. 122.)
      “…we do everything of necessity, and nothing by ‘free-will’; for the power of ‘free-will’ is nil…” (Ibid., p. 188.)
      “…every Christian is by faith so exalted above all things that, by virtue of a spiritual power, he is lord of all things without exception, so that nothing can do him any harm. As a matter of fact, all things are made subject to him and are compelled to serve him in obtaining salvation.” (From the essay,’ Freedom of a Christian,‘ ’Martin Luther: Selections From His Writings, ed. by Dillenberger, Anchor Books, 1962 p. 63.)
      Luthe

      Report Post » by faith  
    • SavedByTheLamb
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 6:36pm

      By Faith, this assignment is only for Catholic-bashers, truth notwithstanding.

      Keep the faith, just like we did at the Battle of Lepanto.

      Our Lady of Victory, Pray for Us! Bring all souls to Christ!

      Report Post »  
    • ChartreuseMuse
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 4:17pm

      Religion has always been used as a means of social control and stories have been used to maintain that control by ruling classes who sometimes assumed semi-deity status as in Egyptian and Roman times. Even in this age the clergy still assert they are the “routers” betwixt mortal and God and even political and policy leaders who should be persons of intellect and logic will kowtow to religious strife and petty prejudices . . . it’s maddening and ironic to see the same leaders dealing with science policy and then sitting at a prayer breakfast, invoking a god of peace and then engaging in nuclear weapons talks. Or worse yet, allowing the religious leaders to write the science policy and their beliefs influence weapons treaties! Yet, if science and reason dares sneak its nose under the tent of religious dogma, watch out!

      Report Post »  
  • Conservative Bleeder
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:58am

    It’s that time of year when the world falls in love….

    Report Post » Conservative Bleeder  
  • Gonzo
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:58am

    If it were Sunni VS Shiite, the place would be leveled by now.

    Report Post » Gonzo  
  • lukerw
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:55am

    Happens all the time.

    If you remember your History: In about 800, the Pope was fired by the Emperor of Eastern (Byzantine) Roman Empire… went to the West, and set the Emperor Charlemagne as Emperor of the Western (Holy) Roman Empire… creating Two Christian Religions and Two Roman Empires… forever set in Conflict!

    Report Post » lukerw  
    • by faith
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 5:23pm

      What happens all the time?

      People make up “history”?

      Report Post » by faith  
  • Detroit paperboy
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:46am

    Isnt organized religion wonderful, they must have been fighting over an alter boy…

    Report Post »  
    • edmundburk
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 5:23pm

      hey paperboy….save your hateraide for the penn state coaches!

      Report Post » edmundburk  
  • 13th Imam
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:46am

    Will these broomin fights be swept under the rug by the LSM??

    Report Post » 13th Imam  
    • dnewton
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 12:00pm

      Maybe it was rehearsal for the next Harry Potter movie. They are making too much to have filmed the last one.

      Report Post »  
  • JustMel71
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:41am

    Well it’s been known to me and hopefully others that it will come down to a religious war soon enough. Sadly the writing has been all the wall since mankind. Christians fighting one another & Islam. Look to examples like Crusades, French Wars of Religion, Holy Roman Empire..etc. It’s coming, repent & get with God.

    Report Post » JustMel71  
    • ChartreuseMuse
      Posted on December 29, 2011 at 4:21pm

      Have we not matured and evolved a bit since the Dark Ages?? I would hope so.
      If only the murderous faiths would keep their infighting to brooms.

      Report Post »  
  • palmtree
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:38am

    Unreal

    Report Post » palmtree  
  • BetterDays
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:37am

    What are the odds that this church is actually the site of Jesus’s birth? Since it was founded several hundred years after the event? I’m going to surmise this event, the first annual broom bash for fake secular Christian monitaty gain was and is an example of what happens whenever one puts anything before Jesus in ones life.
    Could be no one knows what he looked like or where he was born specifically, for a reason. Such as so mankind would not break out into broom wars over whom gets this weeks entry fees. Reminds me of carny’s at the bearded ladies booth.

    Report Post »  
    • Jenny Lind
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 11:02am

      I wonder if He weeps when we make a big deal over something so trivial as where he “might,maybe” was born? I personaly don’t think He cares about souveniers, or other trivial stuff. He just wants our heart’s to be turned to Him, and for us to love each other. This doesn’t look much like that to me.

      Report Post »  
    • edmundburk
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 5:26pm

      must be awfally lonely up on your own pedistill.

      Report Post » edmundburk  
  • thegreatcarnac
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:36am

    I am sure God was shaking his head. Children..children…children.

    Report Post »  
  • piper60
    Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:31am

    These priests need a refresher course on getting along with one another, clearly.

    Report Post » piper60  
    • Apple Bite
      Posted on December 28, 2011 at 10:39am

      Sure. But they didn’t literally try to kill each other…

      Report Post » Apple Bite  
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