Science

Shock Study: Light Speed Broken, Challenges Long Held Fundamentals About the Universe

Scientists around the world were floored by yesterday’s announcement that CERN researchers had broken the speed of light, which is the fastest known speed. They presented their work today for further scientific scrutiny.

If proven true by other research groups, it will debunk Einstein’s special theory of relativity, which holds that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light in a vacuum.

If that is the case, scientists say they will need to rethink the way the universe works, because then “it‘s not just space that’s affected, it‘s time that’s affected too.” Watch the BBC’s report:

How did this happen? The team — a collaboration between France‘s National Institute for Nuclear and Particle Physics Research and Italy’s Gran Sasso National Laboratory — fired a neutrino beam, which is composed of subatomic particles known to travel close to the speed of light, 454 miles underground from Geneva to Italy. What they saw surprised them and made them nervous. It traveled a sixty billionth of a second faster than the speed of light.

CERN Researchers Say the Broke the Speed of Light

(Image: BBC)

The BBC reported the researchers repeated their experiment 16,000 times with enough similar results to achieve statistical significance. Study author Antonio Ereditato of the Oscillation Project with Emulsion-tRacking Apparatus, or OPERA, collaboration at CERN collaboration said they tried to find mistakes in their work, but couldn’t:

“We wanted to find a mistake – trivial mistakes, more complicated mistakes, or nasty effects – and we didn’t.

“When you don’t find anything, then you say ‘well, now I‘m forced to go out and ask the community to scrutinise this’.”

Watch Ereditato explain the findings:

As Ereditato says, this news is not to be taken lightly. Physicists remain skeptical until other replication of the experiment attains similar results.

Alvaro De Rujula, a theoretical physicist at CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research outside Geneva from where the neutron beam was fired, said he blamed the readings on a so-far undetected human error.

If not, and it’s a big if, the door would be opened to some wild possibilities.

The average person, said De Rujula, “could, in principle, travel to the past and kill their mother before they were born.”

Research groups in Japan and the United States will most likely retest the experiment.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Comments (237)

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  • Constructionist
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:08pm

    Although I appreciate that someone has taken the time to debunk the theory of relativity, it would have been more useful if they had found a way to eliminate progressive moral relativism.

    Report Post » Constructionist  
    • SgtB
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:14pm

      I’m glad to see that someone else is skeptical that by traveling fast enough in a straight line you can slow down time itself.

      I laughed when I heard this news and immediately shouted “Suck it Einstein!”. I should like to note that Einstein married his cousin and didn’t make as significant contributions to science as the likes of Gauss, Tesla, or Newton.

      Report Post » SgtB  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:19pm

      @ SGTB

      Thank ye, always good to hear from another science affictionado.

      Everybody knows Newton, nobody knows Gauss, and Tesla was freaking jobbed by Edison. I’ll admit that Einstein did plenty, but I‘m more interested in Fermi’s work than Einstein’s. Can’t wait to see what the next great breakthrough in particle physics is going to be.

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:47pm

      I make a flippant comment once and the tirade begins.

      Let it go, man, just let it go. This thread-stalking ragetroll griefing is not healthy, man. Just let it go.

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
    • ramburner
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:03pm

      And this “new” revelation does what for us?? I think of the person who travels the highways , breaking all speed laws. I usually see them along side of the road broken down. But when they make it to the exit I normally find myself two car lengths behind them. So, what that this new revelation finds that something can break the speed of light. Will that get to another planetary system faster? Maybe in our lifetime? What foolish diversion from the everyday emergencies that need to be put to rest; like getting Obama out of office before the whole country is under communist rule and ALL of our rights are lost! Get real people. Concentrate FIRST on the things that matter and let the rest find their own place.

       
    • drattastic
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:15pm

      Imagine that more “settled ” science debunked . Now there was something in recent years that is also considered “settled science” “ the debate was over” .What was it ? Some schmuck that ran for president keeps flying around the world talking about it ,I think he invented the internet. Somebody help me out here ,it’s on the tip of my tongue.

      Report Post » drattastic  
    • swampcooler
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:24pm

      that was good.

      Report Post »  
    • TunaBlue
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:38pm

      These discoveries will be a never ending process for science. This one will shake the roots of science for some time, and will provide other theories off which new discoveries will be made. That’s the process. I just wish that the scientific community would spend as much effort on AGW.

      Report Post »  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:43pm

      If the standards of needing professional help is being unwilling to be screwed by the Left on a daily basis, then by all means sign me up.

      If the measure of ‘proper conservative conduct’ is to try to placate the Left with words and appeasement, which I remind you we have been trying for nearly twelve decades without result, then do count me out of that foul tribe.

      You are laboring under an illusion, amigo. A very happy, smiley illusion, one devoid of fears of violence or repercussion. We have been trying to talk the Left out of this course for DECADES, and look were the h3ll we are now. Additionally, I will remind you that the Left frequently uses violence in the pursuit of their goals; anyone who ignores this fact, or refuses to defend themselves, is an utter fool.

      If you honestly believe that talking them down to normalcy and liberty will work, then I declare you truly insane; for the proper measure of insanity is repeating the same failed action over and over and over again with the expectation of different results. I see no reason to believe that this round of talks will work in the long term, therefore I do not live under this illusion.

      Holding the ‘moral high ground’ is all well and good, and I can understand the value of such placement, but such a lofty position has no value if you die within sight of the crest. At that point, the moral high ground simply becomes your grave.

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
    • layosh
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:49pm

      Ocassionally we should take off the glasses that show everything tinted with nasty politics. What is reported has nothing to do with progressives or politics. This is a discovery of a beutiful puzzle that needs solving and that challenges what is the nicest in us, humans: our curiosity and ability to work very hard for abstract goals. Marwell, when it shows up and enjoy it, untill it lasts!

      Report Post »  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:56pm

      @ Layosh

      I do not believe the article is tinted with politics, and you have my apologies if I sound like I am overly soured.

      In following with your comment, I do marvel at the wonders we live under. I respect the sciences as I respect the religions, and more to the point I extoll the virtue that we are of such thinking prowess that we can create rational thought and explore our universe to significant degree.

      I raise a toast for the evening, that we may live long enough to see great wonders of science in our future, and that we are not robbed of our ability to profit from these wonders, be it a profit of mind, body, or spirit/soul.

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 1:01am

      I‘m disappointed that my friend Cherynn isn’t here to talk to about this. I honestly admire the Engineering Department at the University of Purdue because some very bright people I work with came through there. Be interesting to get another Boilermakers perspective on what this means for not just Physics in general, but for applications in mechanical, and quantum theory.

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
    • KickinBack
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 2:03am

      It’s called…Ludicrous Speed! My God…They’ve gone to plaid!!!!

      Report Post » KickinBack  
    • mamachihuahua
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 2:08am

      Can we use it to undo the last election?

      Report Post »  
    • Phoenixsoulfire
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 2:33am

      @SgtB

      He didn’t? What about e=mc2. Which is the formula that represents energy = mass traveling at the speed of light in a vacuum times 2? Which made it possible to build the atom bomb. He was appauld when they showed him that it could be done and wrote to the president telling him it shouldn’t and that if this gets out it could be drastic to the world

      Report Post »  
    • GETLIFE
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 3:35am

      DRATTASTIC
      Einstein, we may be able to disprove, Al Gore– never!
      (Does this mean those CERN scientists are similar to racists or something?)

      Report Post » GETLIFE  
    • Zer0
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 5:50am

      My God, it’s full of stars!

      Report Post »  
    • Wayner
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 10:19am

      What a waste of time and money…… Some of us are going to understand much more than this in Eternity.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 1:04pm

      “If the measure of ‘proper conservative conduct’ is to try to placate the Left with words and appeasement, ”

      oh yeah violence is always the answer…right…you’re doing exactly what the left wants you to do…you’re a pawn….a stooge.

      so tell me, do you have some FINAL SOLUTION in mind for your political opponents?

      whats the point of being ‘conservative’ if you’re going to be just like the fascist left?

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 3:15pm

      @ Joe

      When calling someone a pawn, it would be very wise to remember that in Chess a pawn can help force the elimination of the enemy rank, either by active or passive action. For me, being a pawn of the patriot Right is a duty I do not shy away from.

      Another thing to keep in mind is that you are jumping to bullsj1t conclusions as to what I say and what I mean. I have not said anything about killing anyone (outside of the flippant remark above), I advocate defensive action. You know, saving lives from the Left that wants everyone but them dead to protect the environment and ensure their power. I hope that’s not too hard for you to figure out.

      I also know clearly what manner of cost a second American civil war will have, and right now we are headed towards one at breakneck pace. I DO NOT want to see a second civil war, but I would be completely fool to assume that mere talk will avoid one.

      Lastly, I DO NOT believe that wholesale slaughter is the proper path to defeat the Left. Such omnicidal actions should be prevented at all costs.

      Stop putting words in my mouth, @sshat. If there is any Leftist trolling here, it is you, trying to divide the Right and force an easy conquer for those maggots we should be fighting.

      I will never give up my arms, I will never shy away from the necessity of violence, but I will never use armed conflict UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
    • Zorro6821
      Posted on September 25, 2011 at 3:35am

      Just goes to show, there is so much we do not know . Both in science and humanity.

      Report Post »  
    • LisaC49
      Posted on September 25, 2011 at 9:32am

      Does that mean that if it DOES in fact affect time, that it pushes more ahead to 2012, so that we can vote that nincompoop who is in the White House, OUT, along with his entourage of special interest cronies?

      Report Post »  
    • weeblewacker1
      Posted on September 25, 2011 at 11:42am

      this really isn’t that “shocking” Tesla said way back when that neutrino particles could travel faster than light.

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 25, 2011 at 2:54pm

      @ohio ‘flippant’ remark huh? more like assinine remark..

      oh please spare me with how tought and fierc you are….people like you are all talk.

      wacko

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Jerley
      Posted on September 25, 2011 at 7:55pm

      OHIORIFLEMAN,

      That you stated clearly it is not applied science, ensures it a joke and not a threat. very funny! Don’t let trolls get you down

      Report Post »  
    • imacin2000
      Posted on September 26, 2011 at 3:03am

      Right on!!!!

      Report Post »  
    • jamestoms
      Posted on October 3, 2011 at 7:12pm

      Well that explains where I was before I got here, I was there……:0)

      Report Post »  
  • GodsDotr
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:07pm

    If only we could go back in time… at least to 2008!!!

    Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:07pm

      Well if you could go back in time, then you wouldn’t be able to learn from your mistakes would you? I mean if you could just go back to do it over again, how much learning would be involved?

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:10pm

      There wouldn’t be any learning because then you would be like the ungrateful child whose parent keeps counting to three but yet the parent never takes away the candy after reaching the number three, or the child would always know he can tempt his parent until the number 2 and a half.

      Report Post »  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:26pm

      @ Eliasim

      Your point about learning is entirely valid, but I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the price of this lesson was far too high for everyone involved. A cure will happen…eventually…but the metric tons of flesh we will pay for it between then and now are simply increasing by the hour.

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
    • the hawk
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:41pm

      Eliasim,
      Thats deep man ! Thanks…………..

      Report Post »  
    • rdietz7
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 1:29am

      Forget about conservativism and progressivism, capitalists and Marxists. There is the elect and then there is the damned. Do you really think Jesus would even wear a blue color or white collar? A tie? Levi’s? Your labeling yourself, backing yourselves into corners. Find the truth, hold tight to it and never let it go again. Of course, scientists are always disproving themselves. Their foundation is based on the idea that the mysteries of the universe can become not mysterious. Meaningless and futile studies only leading to our destruction. Einstein did in fact create something, the Atom bomb!

      Report Post » rdietz7  
    • TunaBlue
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 1:50am

      It makes me believe that we may discover something that would have been better left untouched. Einstein’s discovery has brought us to the brink on more than one occasion and may still be our end in time.

      Report Post »  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 3:45pm

      @ Tunablue

      Well, yes and no. Yes, Einstein’s creations have got us close to the edge, but the only reason why we are at the edge is because of the political class. Were it just the military forces involved, I think it would be a lot less of an issue.

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
  • wordweaver
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:05pm

    This is encouraging news, because I have long suspected that I have neutrinos zipping around my house at night, wreaking havoc. I’ve tried to catch them by switching on the light, but they always scatter before the light can come on. This explains a lot.

    Report Post » wordweaver  
    • TennesseeConservative
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:59pm

      Once again my suspicions have been confirmed. So called science has NO clue what is or what is not. When someone says they are an expert, RUN..

      Report Post » TennesseeConservative  
    • SgtB
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 12:43am

      I have a new way to prevent a certain disease in chickens. But I can only do physics math so it’ll only work on spherical chickens in a vacuum without gravity.

      Sounds like science to me.

      I’m always amazed when “scientists” come up with a study that says kids who eat dinner around a table with their parents are less likely to go to jail as adults or abuse drugs (note I said abuse and not use here). Who would’ve ever though that all you have to do is put your kids down at a table to eat 5 times a week to make them better people? Scientists always miss the real “why” of the question. In this example they say that the act of eating dinner is what makes kids better, but in reality it is just having a parent who gives a damn that makes the difference. Stupid scientists and all of their improper assumptions.

      Report Post » SgtB  
  • Chasvs391
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:02pm

    Kind of gives some new perspective on claims of “Settled Science” doesn’t it? Hey, Algore, so much for Scientific conscensis!

    Report Post »  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:23pm

      Those who claim “settled science” are pretty stupid people. Biological Sciences always begin with, “WE THINK this is, and go on a 2 hour tirade trying to justify research dollars based on fools gold science theory.

      Physics was required for my profession in Computer Engineering and we’ve only just really started opening the door to possibilities. Settled Science, that’s hilarious if we really think about it.

      That junk that Gore peddles is psuedo science, that is no Science at all. No ethical Scientist would ever sign on to that junk, only those who can be bought to lie.

      Saying all that, I’m not convinced until this is proven by sustained tests, although to me it’s a shoulder shrug kind of thing. A lot of people in the area of Physics, including Quantum Mechanics have suspected that light speed wasn’t a concrete law.

      Until things are settled with repeatable evidence, nothing is settled. If true, it opens the door to a complete revision on how we view the Universe, and how we can apply what’s known to better mankind.

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
    • rdietz7
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 2:27am

      One humanist that thought he could take what was known of science and theology to better mankind was…. Hitler. The idea that man can better himself is a philosophical delusion of all the sciences. Political, sociological, psychological etc… Man= depraved. You actually sound more progressive in your conclusion. Ohiorifleman is included in that equation.

      Report Post » rdietz7  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 3:49am

      @ rdietz7

      One humanist that thought he could take what was known of science and theology to better mankind was…. Hitler. The idea that man can better himself is a philosophical delusion of all the sciences. Political, sociological, psychological etc… Man= depraved. You actually sound more progressive in your conclusion. Ohiorifleman is included in that equation.
      ———————————————————————————————————————————————-
      Mankind can always become better. That’s not humanist relativism, it’s Biblical truth. You say man is depraved, I simply believe that man is deceived. Simple test of the philosophical delusion perpetrated on the sensibilities of man. We’ve been taught that Eve and Adam were cast from the Garden of Eden for eating an Apple. Is that true in either a real or allegorical sense?

      I suspect you won’t bother answering, but in case you shock my senses and actually do answer, why do you think God would give this Garden to mankind to nurture and develop, including the animals, fish, and creeping things?

      Your reply is a denial of the truth that mankind will always seek to find it’s way back to perfection. What are you afraid of? Is it that you harbor the ideology of mad men like Marx, Engels, Leroux, Bernays, Goebbels, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others like them who seek to bend the Sciences, rather than seek truth? I know God is real, do you?

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
  • Profx72
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:53pm

    So, basically, the French have discovered a way to RETREAT faster than ever before! Now THAT’S Progress. ;-)
    http://www.maverickvoice.com

    Report Post »  
  • elvisroy0000
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:49pm

    ..@Reply[IMG]http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h431/elvisroy0000/100_0213.jpg[/IMG]

    Report Post » elvisroy0000  
  • OhioRifleman
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:48pm

    Now we are getting somewhere meaningful.

    FTL travel has been the common aspersion of sci-fi for decades, and the wet dream of real physicists for longer. If we can reliably get particles up to FTL speeds, scaling and practical application become the next challenges. If it can be scaled up and made feasible from an engineering standpoint to mount in a mobile colony or (better yet) a small ship, you have whole galaxies of possibilities for outworld colonization and resource exploitation.

    On the time travel consideration, well, you theoretically _can_ go back in time and kill someone, but you’d have to be real freaking maniacal to do it. Given their numbers, to move backwards in time a mere 6 seconds, you would have to execute this movement speed for roughly 73 200 000 000 kilometers linear travel. To go back 1 hour, you’re looking at 7 320 000 000 000 kilometers linear travel. To put that in perspective, the second number above is roughly 0.77 light-years. A day’s backwards travel will net you 18.5 LY distance. A travel year is 6778.3 LY distance, or 2070 parsecs – roughly 1/50th of the length of our galaxy. To travel that far back in time, and that distance, is wildly impractical – it _can_ be done, but I’d like to know how someone could supply a ship with the power and resources needed to do it.

    Another thing to keep in mind – if you travel that far out to go back in time, what does it matter what happened back out here on Earth? You would be somewhere totally ne

    Report Post » OhioRifleman  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:26pm

      Bleh, cut me off, and the post counter said I still had 8 characters to spare.

      Anyways, my last line really meant:

      “If you go to so much effort to go backwards in time, what the hell for? By linear travel, you’ve gone so far out of your way, you might as well park it and enjoy the change of scenery.”

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
  • Lateris
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:47pm

    Try think what this could do for space travel. Try,

    Report Post »  
  • JamesB
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:46pm

    First off, physical time travel is impossible. Time is a by-product of space and motion.

    So cause ALWAYS proceeds effect, regardless of WHEN you might be able to see that cause happening!! Shifting your frame of reference will not change this; the speed of light has nothing to do with causality. So no matter what they find, physical time travel has always been a non-starter.

    This CERN experiment opens the door to an interesting possibility: we have been using the wrong value for c.

    James

    Report Post » JamesB  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:59pm

      Close, but not exactly right.

      Motion cannot exist without time. Time does not exist without motion. The laws of space, gravity, and time bind us in our reality.

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
    • JamesB
      Posted on April 7, 2012 at 4:17pm

      No, MOTION can’t exist without space. Time is a by-product of space and motion, not the other way around.

      It’s this thinking that time is more than an side effect that has stalled physics with partially conceived theories like General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics that fail to recognize time for what it is (just as Newton‘s Laws of Gravity failed to account for relativistic effects in it’s time).

      Without space there is no place to move, without motion there is no cause and effect. But time itself is neither cause nor effect, but a by-product of the transition from cause to effect. So space is a prerequisite for motion, but time is only realized when the motion itself take place. Even with space, motion doesn’t HAVE to happen.

      And without motion there is no time, we create time with motion (hence the closer to the speed of light we come, the more time is affected – this is why time dilation happens).

      While it’s a useful shortcut to think of time as physical thing, WHAT exactly is being ignored by that shortcut (what are we getting around by doing that)? There’s your path to resolving both General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics!

      JamesB

      PS- it also means that physical time travel is not possible (which I find very disappointing) and that there really IS a baseline frame of reference that contains all other frames of reference. If you can step out of your comfort zone and grasp just these two concepts even just for a moment, the world will make bette

      Report Post » JamesB  
  • eaglenva
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:40pm

    Holy molly. It‘s gonna take a little while for this to get verified by the scientific community and if it is verified it’s like discovering the earth is not flat. Understand that I’m not a particle physicist but I did spend three semesters with one as an Instructor.

    Report Post » eaglenva  
  • TomFerrari
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:37pm

    The debate is over. ALL SCIENTISTS agreed.

    You can’t just change it. A bunch of dudes who said they were WAY MORE SMARTERERER than us told us it was a fact.

    Another dude just told me that 2.7 TRILLION PEOPLE watched this announcement LIVE on youtube, all at the same time! WOW !

    That’s even more than ManBearPig got for his 24 hours of “incontrovertable” “global scamming!” Er, I meant, “global ice age”. Strike that. I meant, “global warming!” Okay… strike that one, too. Ummm… “global climate change!” Yeah, that’s it, that one will cover everything.

    Dang ! Now they’re saying that the climate is amazingly stable.

    GRrrr… How am I supposed to fool all these useful idiots into giving ME, ManBearPig, all their money?

    Those stupid politicians will NEVER give me their constituents‘ money if I can’t convince them of this.

    Dag nabbit !

    It’s all you scientists fault !
    .
    .
    .

    Report Post » TomFerrari  
  • UlyssesP
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:36pm

    More details and possible explanation..
    http://www.verumserum.com/?p=29590

    Report Post » UlyssesP  
  • uptickusa
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:34pm

    IT’S Bushes fault -he wants to go back and be re-elected

    Report Post »  
  • kickagrandma
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:33pm

    Oh, boy! We are supposed to run and be scared and hide like “Henny Penny”.

    I DON’T THINK SO!!!

    If you aren’t already “into” your BIBLES, NOW IS THE TIME, folks. THE TRUTH LIVES THERE.

    Don’t believe ANY of the lies the libs, sickos, satan-possessed leaders of the world try to throw out there. They, like our non-president, are all smoke and mirrors.

    Report Post »  
    • ginsberg
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:48pm

      Wtf are you talking about, what is scary about this? If true it represents one of man’s greatest achievements.

      Report Post »  
    • COFemale
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:42pm

      me thinks you’ve been smoking something funny again.

      This is a great and intriguing breakthrough…. Did you know that Tim Berners-Lee, while at CERN is the one who created hypertext links for the World Wide Web. That is physical truth. CERN is better than MIT.

      Therefore, the speed of light has just been proven to be faster than known opens the door wider that scientist only know so much and that perhaps God continues to show his strength. Have you ever wondered why some things are discovered when they are?

      Report Post » COFemale  
    • 4GODUSAANDISRAEL
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 5:33pm

      i like the breakthrough just because science has treated the law of relativity as gospel since einstien published it…now if this scientific gospel has been disproven, then how can we take the science of climate change and evolution as gospel? My biology teacher once said that NO science is proven. It‘s all theory and it’s always learning and discovering new things. So based on the fact that science is theory, no one can count out divine creation especially since science cannot prove nor disprove that there is a God.

      Report Post » 4GODUSAANDISRAEL  
  • heavyduty
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:31pm

    This is a genuine breakthrough, because it proves that scientists don’t have a clue to what makes this world go around anymore than the rest of us. They are just as lost when it comes to how anything works. At least they told us, so now we don’t have to believe crap when he hear it about this or global warming.

    Report Post »  
    • ginsberg
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:52pm

      Yea, all those scientific breakthroughs that allow us to live longer, to venture into the galaxy, those mean nothing…science progresses that is its nature, you are a fool. If einstein had not done his research this research would not exist…also fyi this may not even be right.

      Report Post »  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:09pm

      You’re jumping to a conclusion. Why do you think some Scientists are trotted out by politicians, and the vast majority of Scientists are relegated to simply conducting research and development behind the scenes? Because some Scientists want the favor of the money men to fund projects, and what bigger money men than the thieves at the top of governments.

      That’s what is so hilarious about people swallowing everything they see on NOVA, the Discovery Channels and the offsprings of those things. If you don‘t believe there’s a political goal behind those programs, you’re already beyond hope.

      Evolution, global warming/climate change due to mans infringements on nature. No real Scientist holds those idea’s seriously. They are government sponsored scams, but don’t blame real Scientists for the fools who sell their own soul.

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
    • anOpinion
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:19pm

      @Ginsberg Totally agree with you, and its disheartening to see how many people on the blaze are so anti-science.

      Report Post » anOpinion  
    • InversionTheory
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 11:46am

      The problem is the Cult of the Expert. Leftists will argue that you must bow before the expert, the scientist. But that is the antithesis of science. In science you’re supposed to try to break the theory. If you validate the theory great….we learn something. If you disprove it…great…we learn something.

      Science is an iterative evolutionary process. Each discovery stands on the shoulders of all that came before and explains things just a little bit better.

      Report Post »  
  • joe1234
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:29pm

    I’m reserving comment until ALGORE weighs in on this…and he brings a lot of weight….

    Report Post » joe1234  
    • smokeysmoke
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:36pm

      what makes this story unique… is that its NOT a politicion pushing science based on how they want to direct the economy… the scientests said they doubted it at first and were looking for problems in the science… when they had troubble they are opening the science to public scruteny to find if this can be accurate….. THIS IS HOW SCIENCE IS SOPOSSED TO WORK.. make a discovery, and instead of saying… i found the answer, QUESTION YOUR SELF… ASK OTHERS TO QUESTION YOU… and when science and socratic meathod have been applied, try and find how it fits into our human situation…. AL GORE IS A FOOL who is trying to take science in the backwards direction… they want solar and green energy, so they are trying to PUSH SCIENCE TO SUPPORT THEIR THEORY… they are not looking to UNDO THEIR THEORY

      Report Post » smokeysmoke  
    • stinkybisquit
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:43pm

      Yes, he could go back in time and reverse Climate change! Better yet, he could actually make something that DOESN’T EXIST.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:46pm

      I’m sure Al Gore knows… didn’t he invent light…“let there be light”, and there was !!!

      Report Post »  
    • Joe1234s Gay Lover
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:11pm

      @Joe my man

      I know how much you love Al Gore. I love it when u talk dirty science to me honey! Hurry home and we will start out global warming! 

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:32pm

      hey wacko, you know you validate all I post….the truth really hurts doesn’t it??? LOL

      Report Post » joe1234  
  • Lunertic
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:29pm

    Seems CERN is needing more Funding. Box Monkeys SO want to prove Einstein wrong.

    Report Post »  
  • mkcouch
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:26pm

    This comes as no real surprise to those of us who subscribe to Barry Setterfield’s (and other scientists) idea that the speed of light has been constantly decreasing since the beginning of the universe.

    Report Post »  
  • LibertarianForLife
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:26pm

    No moronic evolution deniers yet? Extremely surprising. Must be keeping their imaginary friends to themselves tonight.

    Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:32pm

      I was just waiting for a brain-dead darwiniac to come along…I understand why you love evolution so, its racist as hell….

      joe1234  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:34pm

      oh I bet I do much better with my imaginary friend than you do with your imaginary intelligence…

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:53pm

      @LibertarianforLife

      Evolution isn’t even this topic….I do not believe in Evolution but you believing so doesn’t pick my pocket. 

      See what happens when we antagonize people for believing differently, especially being Libertarian as we are…You will from now forward have a rude, insulting, mad man posting hateful stuff against you every second he gets. 

      Hi Joe! I see your still posting rude comments every chance you get. You must be miserable in order to be rude and hateful so often. I’ll pray for you! Have a great night! 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:57pm

      hey Okie, my hateful anti-catholic lying bigoted friend, how are you?

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:02pm

      Joe

      I’m am doing great as Jesus Christ being in my heart fills me with joy I can not help but share with others…..I thank you for asking. You get more bees with honey then vinegar! Hope you are doing well! 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:13pm

      okie, tell me why do you find the truth hateful?

      oh so honey is lying about the catholic church slaughtering 150 million people?

      so you call evil good, and good evil….nice.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • coolshopp
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:16pm

      What the hell does this have to do with evolution?

      Report Post »  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:17pm

      so Okie, why did you come into this thread, and post such vile and hateful lies about me, when I wasn’t even talking to you?

      your heart must be filled with such hatred and bitterness…I do feel sorry for you…I’ll pray to the REAL Jesus for you, not the false ‘jesus’ you pray to…

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:22pm

      Joe

      Hateful means to spew an insult when conversing. “Brain-Dead” was used by you, why? To insult aka be hateful. 

      If you want truth, I’ll go thru every post of YOURS and list every insult you use from each post. We can then tally them, that means add them up, and I’m willing to say you average 1.5 insults per post. Now how is a hate filled person, one who speaks hate continuously and when we speak it is from the heart, be of God? 

      If you have nothing to say on topic, I do not believe we have anything else to discuss. Hope you have a great night! 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • XdemXrepub
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:53pm

      I’m with you. The actions of fossil fuel burners are against nature’s intended temperature for the Earth. Most of the Global Warming deniers come from the religious right, who also deny evolution. They have imposed their morals on society to thwart nature’s evolutionary “survival of the fittest” process.

      Their beliefs that life is something “special” to be protected, is against “survival of the fittest” and hindering the process of evolution. The human race would be farther along towards the next advanced species if not for all these futile resistors of evolution. They may slow it, but they can’t stop the obsolescence of the human race. Puny HUMANS!!

      Report Post » XdemXrepub  
    • Cesium
      Posted on September 24, 2011 at 2:21am

      Now, Joe.. You know what happens when you spin your “evolutionist racists” record backwards don’t you?
      SATAN SATAN SATAN!!

      Report Post »  
    • READRIGHTHERE
      Posted on September 25, 2011 at 8:54pm

      @xdemxrepub

      It is unfortunately typical for an individual to see the world through the only point of view to which they have been exposed, and that of being a citizen of a country with a measley population of only 5% of the entire world. It does not matter what we do here in the way of stopping or encouraging abortion in relation to the “natural selection” process occuring the world over, our numbers are too insignificant. Has the human race been progressing towards the next advanced stage of our species while allowed unfettered access to the process of natural selection? The answer is too subjective.

      Our “US” point of view and our way of life, in relation of course to every other on the planet has historically been proven to show the most advancement and innovation. Not to say we aren’t adept at creating bad apples, or at least allowing them to create themselves, but the point remains, ours has been shown to be better. You can attempt to argue that religion is ruining our natural progression, but I see it differently. This country was born out of the religous experience and the ideals of its founding fathers. Its greatness is the byproduct of the beliefs and practices of the Christian folk who predominately settled these great lands. If anything, religion can at least be in part credited for our progress as a freedom loving and civil society. Wackos and statistical anomolies aside, this Experiment in Freedom has improved not only life here but everywhere.

      Report Post »  
  • mkcouch
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:24pm

    This is not so surprising to those of us who subscribe to the theory that the speed of light has been decreasing since it was created. Google Barry Setterfield speed of light.

    Report Post »  
  • Okie from Muskogee
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:20pm

    Once scrutiny by outsiders is held, human error or margin of error will discredit this event, IMO. It could be possible E=MC2 is invalid but considering it has held true in every other aspect and conditions I tend to side with caution before declaring one event to invalidate it. Even if this neutrino did surpass light in speed, it does not invalidate E=MC2 totally. This event may simply bend or need a further explanation within E=MC2. 

    It could be possible, theory, the neutrino used another dimension to out pace light to the designated target……

    Cool stuff! 

    Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • sportlock
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:27pm

      Why don’t the Dems just have Obama solve the problem real quick? He can learn the science as he goes, like he’s doing with the presidency.

      Report Post »  
    • The1stDave
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:42pm

      Such a small amount of time between what was observed and expected. I’m inclined to believe in a “mechanical” glitch or calibration issue in the detection and timing devices. Sure its only a minute difference in 732 Km, but at astronomical distances there should be double images croping up all over the sky between electromagnetic wave and neutrino observations. If neutrinos can travel faster than light, every GRB should be preceeded by a wave of neutrinos.

      Report Post » The1stDave  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:58pm

      @1stDave

      Very valid point in reference to astronomical distance. I also agree, mechanical calibration or sensor detection, could be a spot of error. I lumped that into “human” error. I should have elaborated. It will be interesting to see how this plays out under scrutiny. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:00pm

      Okie, have you repented for spreading such vile hateful lies about the catholic church yet?

      joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:09pm

      Howdy Joe! Yup I repent everyday, but not for being truthful! If you want to hold an off topic discussion, we can, but not here out of respect for the others posting on topic. It must be horrible to be so miserable one only speaks mean things. Have a great night! Oh, and let me know if you want to talk in another forum. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:15pm

      @okie…yeah you must be very miserable to accuse me of being a mad man…such lies, hatred and bitterness….I wasn’t even posting to you, but you saw me…and couldn’t resist posting vile and hateful things now could you?

      have you repented calling me rude and a mad man? bet you haven’t…

      what ‘jesus’ do you serve?

      joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:28pm

      Joe 

      Last post to you, off topic. 

      Your rhetoric proceeds you. I will return shortly with exact quantity of hateful comments by you so you will understand why mad man, hateful, etc is used to describe you by many, myself included. A tree is a tree, especially if it has leaves, bark, and a trunk! Talk to you shortly. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:36pm

      lets see at 9:22 you said:

      “If you have nothing to say on topic, I do not believe we have anything else to discuss. Hope you have a great night! ”

      and now at 9:26 you say:

      “Your rhetoric proceeds you. I will return shortly with exact quantity of hateful comments by you”

      thanks for proving what a liar you are again.

      I don’t have to post anything of yours, your lies about the catholic church slaughtering 150 million people are well known and are beyong the pale. no christian would spread such lies and slander…I have never seen a more hateful anti-catholic bigot. HAVE YOU NO SHAME?

      you are an embarrassment to the Name of Christ, please stop using it.

      joe1234  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:38pm

      @ Okie

      Given the past three posts between you two, I would have to say that Joe has a dissociative disorder. He started the tirade in this thread by attacking you, then claimed that you attacked him first in this op. You’re not going to get a sensical conversation with someone who cannot connect rational thoughts and/or remember what he posted less than 20 minutes prior. Been there, done that, it failed badly.

      On the overarching theory, if the results shown here scale on a linear equation, to travel back 1 year in time would take something on the order of 2 kiloparsecs linear travel. Not really an efficient way to go about moving through time, given that the galaxy we live in is only ~100 Kpc wide by estimate. I broke down the math in linear form in a post above, it’s not pretty from an efficiency standpoint.

      Still and all, a cool theoretical approach.

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:47pm

      hey Ohio, I didn’t post to okie until he posted to me in another thread….get a clue…

      why are you lying about me? do you have some sick obsession with me, like okie has?

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:53pm

      I was attempting to re-tread this thread back onto topic, I have no interest in you.

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:57pm

      @Ohio

      Appreciate your thoughts. I warned a fellow Libertarian about antagonizing off topic and in doing so will only lead to Joe forever following behind to be rude in return. I get tired of bickering and rudeness. Oh well….Their words speak on their own. 

      Your post above is very enlightening and I appreciate you for it. Cool stuff man….And I see you shoot the Nato 7.62….I have the two that shoot 39′s….Both good rifles….Stay safe man…

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:04pm

      @ Okie

      I was opining the 7.62×51 as an example. I am a .303 Brit / .357 Mag shooter myself, though I have no major objection to some trigger time behind 7.62×39. I just wish quality 7.62 ammo was a bit cheaper, myself…

      Put ‘em on safe and holster ’em, unless you‘re about to use ’em. Gotta keep it safe, we don‘t want the left believing we’re over-violent hill-rods :)

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:19pm

      ohio…apparently you do have some interest in me to post lies about me….I don’t know who you are…don‘t think I’ve ever posted to you, why are you SO obsessed with me that you have to lie about me? get some professional help..

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:21pm

      @Ohio

      Lol that is funny…I shoot weekly but I’m way out in the sticks…I actually got these two to shoot 39′s in case .223 is hard to come by or ammo confiscated from enemy was 39… Wanna be able to shoot all rounds possible. Just my country logic I suppose. Small bulk orders are way cheaper then a few boxes at a time..Keep up the good posts man….

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:23pm

      @ Joe

      I repeat myself, but, I have no interest in you.

      ADDENDUM:

      …Whatsoever. Will you drop it already? I was trying to get some intelligent conversation out of this thread.

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:23pm

      “and in doing so will only lead to Joe forever following behind to be rude in return. ”

      you mean like you did to me in libertarian’s thread? you sound obsessed with me…I didn’t post to you, until you came into a thread that had nothing to do with you, and posted your normal lies and hatred…and then you give this holier-than-thou act….then you say you don’t want to talk to me anymore…then you say you‘re going to ’return shortly with exact quantity of hateful posts from from me’

      looks like you were unable to find any hateful posts from me….no surprise…

      if you really were a christian, you’d apologize for spreading your lies and hatred about me…but you’re neither christian enough to, nor man enough to.

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:34pm

      @ Okie

      Ohio is the sticks, for the most part. Columbus isn’t all that large for a state capital, Dayton is as much an airbase as it is city, Cincinnati….we don’t really know what to do with Cincinnati, we’re still trying to figure that out, and most Ohioans do not claim Cleveland to be part of the state. I am of the opinion that Cleveland was a secret Canadian beachhead that went horribly wrong for them, so they gave up and just built a city there.

      I live out in the hill country of Ohio, where the total population of my county is ~22,500. Less than some suburbs of Cincinnati. My back yard is my shooting range :)

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
    • joe1234
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:43pm

      “Will you drop it already? I was trying to get some intelligent conversation out of this thread.”

      oh of course you want to lie and then ‘drop it’

      let me guess you‘re another ’christian’ like okie is…

      Report Post » joe1234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:00pm

      @Ohio

      It is nice to live without the population. Maize is the closet town I live by, which is an Amish country store, feed store and mill. My land buts against theirs. Wagoner and Pryor are the two “towns” I live in-between and they are just small country highway towns. I’m an Okie as I was born in Muskogee and family is all still there. When I relocated back to OK I found this land and couldn’t pass on it. 

      Couple weeks back my nephew was shooting with me, I’m teaching him how to shoot, he starts telling me how cool it would be if bullets could move as fast as light. He is autistic and is a major fan of science and how things work. Seems we will have a few things to discuss now that this event against E=MC2 occurred. The coolest thing about him is he can tell you every known weapon design, it’s flaw, what rounds, what wars each different rifle was used in and who designed it and when. It blows my mind. I will be using your post above in our discussion. Thank you for the good conversation. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • OhioRifleman
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 11:23pm

      @ Okie

      I used to work in MR/DD, and I have a few cousins with autism to various degrees. It’s amazing, seeing their skills with retaining and using information that is germane to their interests. Smokes my ability to remember things by an order of magnitude. ‘Tis also good you are teaching him a discipline / physical skill such as firearms, and that he is getting along with it. I see a lot of Autism just brushed aside without a thought to what potential these persons have, it is sad…

      A wonderful conversation. Look forward to encountering you in another article. For tonight, I have to finish up paperwork and close down for the weekend. Have a good evening!

      Report Post » OhioRifleman  
  • Psychosis
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:18pm

    WHAT???? but but all the scientists said it was INCONTROVERTIBLE and that there was a CONSENSUS

    YOU MEAN SCIENTISTS, EVEN GREAT ONES , GET IT WRONG ( frequently i might add )

    Report Post » Psychosis  
  • scguitar
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:18pm

    Problem, Eistein?

    Report Post »  
  • sportlock
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:17pm

    I thought like Global Warming, the science was settled on this as well?

    Report Post »  
  • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
    Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:15pm

    IF this turns out to be true, then the universe as we understand it has just been turned inside out and upside down; again though from what I read here and elsewhere, it still needs to be confirmed that what they think has happened is really happening — as it could turn out to be wrong, or the turning point for an entire new understanding of the universe and all within it.

    Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • sportlock
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 8:20pm

      Yeah, and what the hell is E supposed to equal now? haha

      Report Post »  
    • mrbuff1959
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:24pm

      Snowleopard thank you I could not have said it better. I will ad, Can you say warp drive! Live long and prosper S L.

      Report Post » mrbuff1959  
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 9:46pm

      @MrBuff — or as Pelosi and the Progressives would actually say it “THEYRE REAL!!! and THERE HERE!!!” as they see the UFO’s asking to be taken to the leader of freedom, Glenn Beck.

      Note, the sarcasm is totally directed at the progressives.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on September 23, 2011 at 10:12pm

      Snow

      Just wanted to say good to see your post. Hope you are doing good. Stay safe and ready!

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
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