Should Bible Courses Be Offered in Public High Schools? AZ Is Thinking About It
- Posted on January 25, 2012 at 2:52pm by
Billy Hallowell
- Print »
- Email »
Regardless of one’s personal opinions on Christianity, it’s undeniable that the Bible is the most influential book in history.
Considering its impact on nearly every sector of society, there’s an argument to be made that its study holds beneficial tenets for children and adults, alike. This notion — that the Bible holds cultural significance — is the rationale behind a new Arizona proposal that would bring the study of the holy book to public and charter high schools.
Of course, the proposed bills that would make this a reality may draw ire from some who take an exhaustive view of the separation of church and state. This in mind, it’s important to note that the course would be an elective that it would be governed by very specific requirements. Furthermore, it would focus upon the influence of the Bible on art, literature and other subjects, rather than pushing the theological arguments that comprise the Christian belief system down students’ throats.
If enacted, the laws, proposed by Republican state Rep. Terri Proud (Tucson, AZ), would make Arizona the sixth state in the union to allow schools to offer an elective course that studies the Bible. Similar classes already exist in Georgia, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas. The Huffington Post has more about the two bills that would create and frame parameters for the course:
House Bill 2473, proposed by Republican state Rep. Terri Proud, would allow high schools to offer an elective course on the “critical evaluation and examination of the Bible as a literary work” beginning June 30, 2013.
A second proposal, HB 2563, would require the State Board of Education to determine requirements for a high school course titled “The Bible and its influence on Western Culture,” which would include lessons on the history, literature and influence of the Old and New testaments on laws, government and culture, among other aspects of society.
While the state doesn’t currently forbid the use of the Bible or religious documents in public-school instruction (though there are very specific guidelines for using these items), Proud claims that some teachers, due to the issues that are associated with such instruction, are afraid to approach the subject.
“There is this false perception that separation of church means absolutely no religion in school, that the Bible is not allowed,” Proud said. “That is absolutely not true.”
“There are people out there who hate the Bible and everything about it. That’s fine, but don’t deprive our children of biblical literature because of your personal feelings,” she continued.
Victoria Lopez, a program director with the American Civil Liberties Union, finds the proposals problematic, as it is often difficult for teachers to properly approach the subject of religion in the classroom. This is particularly challenging in ensuring that educators don’t indoctrinate students by sharing their personal beliefs.
“It‘s very easy for teachers to cross the line and violate students’ religious rights,” Lopez says. “There’s a lot of room here for those violations to take place.”
While other church-state separatist groups have similar concerns about the proper training of the teachers who instruct these Bible course, some are fine with the proposed legislation.
In fact, Marc Victor, a lawyer who works with the Freedom From Religion Foundation, an atheist group, says that the course is absolutely fine it it’s done “in an intellectually honest, non-biased way.” He even called it, pending it meets these criteria, “a great idea.”
With all of these factors in mind, what do you think? Do elective Bible courses belong in public schools? Take our poll, below:
Popular Stories
Paper Details Obama Admin’s Alleged Secret Note Sent to Iran: If Israel Attacks, We Won’t Get Involved 585 Comments
‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 413 Comments
This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 412 Comments
Roseanne Barr: Most Billionaires ‘Violent Pedophiles’ & ‘Heartless’ Cocaine Addicts 374 Comments
President Obama Issues Major ‘Green Energy’ Executive Order 368 Comments
Faith
- This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 412 Comments
Pakistani Muslim Cleric Accused of Framing Disabled Christian Girl in Koran-Burning Case Read More- ‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 413 Comments
Meet the Controversial German Imam Accused of Brutally Beating His Wife & Pushing Sharia Law Read More
‘Self-Proclaimed Messiah’ & Unification Church Leader the Rev. Sun Myung Moon Has Died — Here’s His Life Story Read More
Business
- President Obama Issues Major ‘Green Energy’ Executive Order 368 Comments
- Germany’s Upcoming Court Ruling Will be Huge for the EU Read More
Ford Looks to Beat Toyota for Best-Selling Car in 2012 With This Model 151 Comments
Bernanke & QE3: Here’s What You Need to Know Read More- ‘Extortion’: Why Did the Labor Department ‘Drop the Hammer’ on Oregon Farmers? 303 Comments
Technology
- This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 412 Comments
‘TaserDrone’: Hackers Weaponize Quadcopter With Actual ‘Shocking’ Technology Read More
Ever Heard of the Wild ‘Burning Man’ Festival in the Middle of the Nev. Desert? Here’s Your Primer Read More
Stanford Develops Technology ‘Better Than Steroids’ for Athlete Recovery Read More
Have You Pretended to Know What ‘the Cloud’ Is? You’re Not Alone Read More
Submitting your tip... please wait!
Comments (223)
May Clark
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:33pmA class should be offered on-line. Much more of American school education should be offered on the Internet. For example, if there were standard spelling classes for elementary school available on-line, especially ones which had drilling games for learning and practice tests, this would help all parents and students. How could this not improve the problem of education in America? Get rid of the Department of Education and put more classes on-line.
Report Post »godlovinmom
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:55pmI homeschool my child online…K12 is a good program…also studyisland.com is good for practice testing :)
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:08pmNow that we have Conservative versions of History, News, Opinion and Wikipedia, there is no reason to have public school any more. If you cannot afford internet, you need to be doing industrial janitorial work.
And there is no reason for structured religion, which ruins personal relationships with our Lord.
TEA
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:37pmIf I were to teach such a class, knowing that every student there comes from different religions and traditions. I would first choose a portion of scripture and just have it read out loud. Then have the students explain or comment on the portion read and how they see it. The teacher’s role is to guide and stimulate the conversation and hopefully the students can come to a agreed upon conclusion and understanding of the import of the scriptures value in our lives. It would be so much fun.
Report Post »TomFerrari
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:19pm@blacktooth – May I suggest YOU start with PROVERBS 22:6?
Your idea is a well-intentioned, but dangerous teaching method…
Children need to be TAUGHT – ACTIVELY, not passively with good intentions.
Asking your child what they want for dinner instead of telling them creates a child that thinks it should always get its way.
That is the participation-trophy mentality, imho.
Proverbs 22:6
Report Post »“TRAIN UP A CHILD IN THE WAY HE SHOULD GO, and when he is old, HE WILL NOT DEPART FROM IT”
(that is a far cry different than, “allow children to figure out what THEY want and just let them do whatever they want, and HOPE they turn out to be honest, forthright, upstanding citizens”)
godlovinmom
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:22pmAmen Tom!
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 6:19pmTom,
I understand what you are saying but if the teacher was to “train up a boy in the way he should walk” in a public classroom setting, then the parents will object saying “who are you to tell my child what and how to view these scriptures” ?
What if the teacher is a Catholic and the parents are Baptist?
But if through a in depth discussion, the students actually come to the proper understanding of what the scriptures really mean, then the students are teaching themselves and the teacher is just a guide. Kids are not dumb, they know how to figure things out with some gentle guidance.
Bottom line is; I don’t think it would actually work in a public school setting. Too much opposition from parents and school officials with all their “regulations”.
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 6:29pmProverb 22:6 is counsel for fathers in training his children.
Report Post »He has no business training his neighbors children.
That is the problem here, a public school teacher is training other people’s children. If the parents do not like the training, then……..well, you know what happens to the teacher.
colt1860
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 6:53pmHere’s a solution. Keep the federal Government (Executive, Legislative, and Judicial) out of public schools. Let the People decide for themselves how to best govern the education of their children.
Report Post »jespasinthru
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 7:21pmGive a ten-year-old a copy of the Bible and say “Read the Old Testament.” He will reject the idea. Then point out all the violent, evil parts like Lamentations, Revelations and the tail end of Genesis. If he’s been taught to be a reader and a lover of books, he’ll fall right into it. Then point out the historic passages, and the Hebraic wars that were won and lost. A lot of the Bible is fantasy, we all know that. (Hello, talking snake). But a lot of it is actually real history.
Report Post »The-Monk
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 9:08pm“Should Bible Courses Be Offered in Public High Schools?”
Report Post »No! If you want to learn about the Bible… read it and/or attend a Church. Time in school should be spent on Math, Science, English, History and more Math.
poverty.sucks
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 10:14pmI would not send my child to a public school to learn the Bible, that’s my responsibility.
Report Post »pattybbb1
Posted on January 26, 2012 at 12:42amWhen I went to high school, mid 1970s, I took Bible Literature class. Really good.
Report Post »K G
Posted on January 26, 2012 at 9:29amhttp://freehovind.com/watch-4308235066145651150
Report Post »here are some courses that could teach a wealth of information on what God has to say about our earth.
SaraD
Posted on January 29, 2012 at 12:16amPublic schools should only offer these courses if they offer them in a class that also teaches other major religion, like wicca, islam, Hindu, they should educate on everything or nothing.
Report Post »Scottt01
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:30pmYes, it would help instill some tolerance into our secularist society.
Report Post »HKS
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:53pmSince the anti-Christ is already there, it could offer some balance.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:18pmIt will only do harm if not taught by a Christian. I experienced a “Bible as Literature” class in college and was appalled that the entire class seemed to be devoted to how to destroy faith in young minds by treating the Bible as myth. It gives a podium and a captive audience to anyone assigned to teach the class. It was a mist difficult experience for me to sit through, and I didn’t do so quietly! My heart ached for the young people who were having their faith questioned for the entire semester. I put on the armor of God, and took it upon myself to discredit the dis-creditors by giving the alternate “Biblical” interpretation of Bible, which the author and instructor were were attaching. You would think that a Bible class could have at least been taught by someone who LIKED the Bible and was at least neutral towards God, if not a believer. But this teacher spewed venom when discussing God, and had a semester to teach her opinion to the captive youth in the class room.
Reading assignments included a fictional novel which she explained, if related to the Bible, and therefore relevant. “The Red Tent” describes Jacob’s wives as pagans women who give their virginity to the idols once they reach womanhood. It was so evil a book I had to stop reading it and demanded an alternative reading assignment. But the instructor refused to make the same allowances for anyone else in the class. It can still make me cry that these young 18 year old christian kids had to r
Report Post »Big Book Harry
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:21pmYes yes yes MANDATORY An intensive book study.(first 4 books of the New Testament) Each member of the class one at a time reads a paragraph and shares what it means to them, with open sharing so that each member has an opportunity to share what the paragraph means to them which will offer a well rounded insight. No religions Catholic, Protestant, Islamic or any other period. Strictly study of the text. Then introduce 12 step principals which will teach the practical application of the Bible text into their daily lives and lead them to develop a personal relationship with the Creator. Then have 12 step participants (5 years or more) come in as panel to share their experience, strength and hope.
Report Post »This will allow them to see the pitfalls of a life lived based upon self will and the benefits of a spiritual experience. God is doing for me that which I could never do by myself.
Locked
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:43pm“Reading assignments included a fictional novel which she explained, if related to the Bible, and therefore relevant. “The Red Tent” describes Jacob’s wives as pagans women who give their virginity to the idols once they reach womanhood. It was so evil a book I had to stop reading it and demanded an alternative reading assignment.”
Uh. You do understand that it was a historical fiction, right? While there were obvious liberties taken with the Biblical characters, most of the “day-to-day” details and rituals were all researched by the author and are accurate. While I can understand being upset with Biblical canon, the acts that so distressed you are as accurate and close to fact as possible.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:12pmTexas.7
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:18pm
It will only do harm if not taught by a Christian. I experienced a “Bible as Literature” class in college and was appalled that the entire class seemed to be devoted to how to destroy faith in young minds by treating the Bible as myth.
____________________________________________________
Definition of a Myth:
1. ancient story: a traditional story about heroes or supernatural beings, often attempting to explain the origins of natural phenomena or aspects of human behavior
2. myths collectively: myths considered as a group or as a genre
the definition basicallt describes all religions. To a non-believer the stories of the Bible are no different than the myths of the Greeks or Norse or any other religion through out time. Do you believe in the scared texts of the Hindu religion or would you teach them as stories and myths?
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:12pm-Locked… I‘m sorry that I don’t agree that the pagan portrayal of Jacob’s wives is reasonable, fair or true. If you are saying it was relevant because some people did that, maybe I would agree- but by making students read fiction in which Jacob’s wives were supposed to be doing it, you promote the idea that the Bible is false. And while you may consider this “tolerance”, it violates our beliefs and hurts our very spirit to read this trash.
Report Post »boundforglory
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:42pmI think it would be a good thing to do, but make it an elective so the atheists cant say that its being forced on them! This way people can choose to take the course.
Report Post »Common.Cents
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 7:20pm@ Encinom i cant believe this is the first time i agree with you. But, we disagree in some ways. I agree, although they are “myths” they teach us truths. Just because something never happened, does not mean it isnt significant. I believe in God, and believe in the stories in the bible. But yes, they are myths, according to that definition. As for this in school, why not?
Report Post »teapartyguardian
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 8:25pmhow true….a little balance!
Report Post »Mary M. Tebbe
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:30pmHistory has been erased, distorted, and almost completely destroyed, otherwise we would remember/recall that we are the sons and daughters of Manasseh, the son of Joseph, the son of Jacob who was the father of the 12 tribes of Israel. We were destined to become the greatest single nation on the face of the earth…no one else is our equal. We are the descendants of ancient Israel, and Israelites along with all the rest of the descendants of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham to whom belong the promises of God Almighty. We are the one nation that God Almighty chose (2 Samuel 7: 23 – 24) to be His People, the sheep of His pasture, as Scripture tells us.
Report Post »Jesus said in the book of Matthew that He came not except to THE LOST HOUSE OF ISRAEL, meaning all of the tribes of Israel that were taken captive to Assyria long ago. His earthly brother James, in his book, wrote to the 12 tribes of Israel scattered and dispersed around the world. Though we became lost to the pages of history, God Almighty still knows where we are.
To separate Israelites from the Bible and Christianity is ridiculous. It cannot be done. Of course we should study the Bible for its entire contents. It is the history of the Nation of Israel (all 12 tribes of Israel); our history. By this one nation Israel all of history will be measured. Jesus Christ, through His shed blood on the cross, became the HEAD OF THE ONE TRUE CHURCH, whose HOLY BOOK is THE BIBLE.
colt1860
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:57pmHere‘s what I’ve found:
Covering the Lost Tribes of Israel and their modern locations: http://stevenmcollins.com/homepage.php
George Gordon’s School of Law: http://library.georgegordon.com/audio
Israel was divided into North and South. America and her common brothers are spiritual Israel (the “lost” House of Israel), or the Northern Kingdom. The Jews today, of the Southern Kingdom (comprised mostly from the tribe of Judah, Benjamin and Levi), make up modern Israel and other Jewish communities around the World. We both, the United States of America (and her common ancestors around the world) with the State of Israel (and all Jews around the world), had a covenant with God, ordained at the time of Abraham.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:29pmWithout offering similar courses for other religions, I can’t see the idea surviving a Supreme Court ruling.
I’m not sure what the problem is with the current system though. I grew up in MA, arguably one of the most liberal states, and we still read parts of the Bible in our literature class. We also learned of the historical contributions of Christianity in our European history class, and its influence on art in (go figure) art class.
Sounds like politicians pushing an agenda; one that I personally consider harmless, but also quite likely to be ruled unconstitutional.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:00pm@LOCKED
I see that you think it would be harmless.
But why do you personally think that a course on all other religions would have to be offered, and why do you think it is an agenda being pushed, when the course is being offered as an “elective”?
No one would be forced to take the class, so no claim can be made of having anything “shoved down our throats”
Schools offer elective foreign language classes, but certainly do not offer courses for every language known to man, do they?
Again, I am asking for your opinion, not legalities.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:07pm@Billy
My opinions as expressed in my comment are based on the legalities. Again, I personally see no issue with teaching Christianity’s influence, or reviewing the Bible… both are already done in public schools as part of other courses. So when I say I feel other courses would need to be offered, it’s based off prior court rulings. For example, religious displays are allowed on public land (eg, Nativity scenes) as long as other faiths also have an equal chance to participate. I imagine that the Supreme Court would make a similar ruling here.
So while I don’t see any harm in it, I also realize that the SCotUS would likely still find it unconstitutional. Which is a real shame, as further study of the Bible and its enduring influence is never a bad thing.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:47pm@LOCKED
Well, thanks for trying anyway, but what I am looking for, is someone to state a logical reason for there to be any problem whatsoever with this being offered as an elective only.
Your mention of the religious displays on public land is not the same argument, in my opinion.
Religious displays can not be made so that only the people that wish to see them, can see them. Every person that walks by the display sees it, so long as they are not blind. Thus they can claim to be offended by it.
An elective course would only be experienced by those that choose to have it……..“shoved down their throat”, as some will say.
Should one person that wishes to learn Tagalog, be able to demand that the school system offer it as an elective course? I don’t think so.
But if there is a teacher on staff that speaks it, and is willing to teach it as an elective, then I see no problem with that. Go for it.
As well as if a teacher wanted to teach an elective course about the Mormon faith. Who cares as long as it is not a required course?
Report Post »ain, s
DenverHomeschoolMom
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:14pmWhy is a class on Biblical Studies from a literature standpoint unconstitutional? This whole “separation of church and state” is not constitutional! Although I do agree that there should be classes using many religious works to be studied, that is the perogative of the school board to determine. I also agree that a class taught by a teacher that is an antiest would be a disservice to the class – but taught by an evangelist would be troublesome–so striking the balance of someone who appreciated the Bible but did not try to get the class to “pray the prayer” at the end would be too big of a challenge for most schools to undertake.
Report Post »EchoHawk
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 6:32pmYou can’t teach an individual religions “sacred text” but you can teach about the worlds major religions, at least in public school. If you’re going to teach about Christianity you have to teach about Catholicism and the Protestant reformation, you can probably leave out the thousand odd sects that exist today but there would be some discussion on the major ones. Then you have to teach about Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Atheism, do you see where this is headed? Expose their open minds as opposed to indoctrinating them with your own narrow views.
Report Post »JP4JOY
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:27pmThe Old Testament and portions of the New Testament are the history of the Jews, Assyrians, Egyptians and other cultures in the Eastern Mediterranean Region. Teach it as history, show how the arts, especially paintings and sculptures of Michael Angelo, Leonardo DaVinci and all the others that contributed to Western culture. You don’t have to make it ABOUT GOD to include GOD in the discussion. These anti religion/GOD atheists need to get a life and worry about their own hypocrisy and not try to ram their crap down the rest of our collective throats.
Report Post »Mary M. Tebbe
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:43pmjp4joy: How would you teach a class about the Holy Bible and leave God out of the discussion? That would be interesting…because the Bible is a book about the entire plan of God for the family He created! If you took God out of the Bible, there would be no Bible to teach.
Report Post »Rational Man
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:44pmYou say teach it as world history. Which is good!
I say teach it as American history since the Bible was the central reference for the tenants and principles on which America was founded. It’s American history. But it seems that the DOE doesn‘t want America’s true history taught in school anymore………………….
World History;
“The Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations.”
John Adams
American History;
George Washington
1st U.S. President
“While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian.”
“It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”
“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 6:10pmAn interesting read, God and America: http://www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/america.html
Report Post »elosogrande
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:27pmHow about a course called “Liberal Socialism As It Has Permeated the American Educational System, Leaving Uneducated American Children In Its Wake “?
Report Post »Plan B
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:49pmWow, I’d like to see them offer that class!!
Report Post »HKS
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:59pmYes we do have to watch out teaching young people to be honest, trustworthy and compassionate to our fellow mankind. It could make them better human beings and that would not be a good thing. Values have not place in mankind today, Just gimme.
Report Post »DenverHomeschoolMom
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:19pmA class on the works of John Taylor Gatto would cover that!
Report Post »bvberry
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:27pmI am an atheist. Just wanted to state that, up front. But I do not have a problem with a high school course on the Bible. It’s influence on the human race cannot be denied.
Report Post »rocktruth
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:26pmI not sure if this is a good idea. A secularist teacher could blaspheme the bible and lead many astray.
Report Post »rocktruth
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:30pmSchools should start with the 10 commandments.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:42pm“Schools should start with the 10 commandments.”
I’d prefer the Bill of Rights. Most of the Commandments don’t apply to our laws. 1-5 are not codified anywhere in them, and the last 5 are mostly common sense and found in all cultures.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 6:35pmOur nation is a federation of free and independent States. Our founding fathers avoided a centralized National Government that had absolute authority. Sine the founding of our Nation up until about the mid 1900′s our Societies were governed by a very religious People. My State of Maryland, along with many other States since the ratification of the US Constitution, had the following similar characteristics in their organic Laws:
Md. Declaration of Rights, 1776.
XXXV. That no other test or qualification ought to be required, on admission to any office of trust or profit, than such oath of support and fidelity to this State, and such oath of office, as shall be directed by this Convention or the Legislature of this State, and a declaration of a belief in the Christian religion.
Va. Declaration of Rights, 1776.
SEC. 16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.
Maryland’s current Declaration of Rights highly esteems and encourages firm reliance in Divine Providence, as with Md.’s Constitutional preamble, “We, the People of the State of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty…”
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 6:51pmAll ten Commandments were heavily reflected upon and used as a guide for hundreds of years right here in America. In my County, alcohol still can’t be sold on Sunday. In my State, no hunting is allowed on Sunday, and most stores around here ‘used’ to be closed on Sunday. We used to, in this Nation, swear or affirm upon the Holy Bible, when speaking the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Fortunately, our Presidents and Congressman still take an Oath upon the Holy Bible. Prayers and services used to be held at Congress, and mostly still are. Our schools, before they were overtaken by the federal Government, used to have prayers, religious studies, and biblical references, taught since a young age. Before and after sporting events, prayers were made public. To this day, our President still affirms our Nation’s reliance or dependence on Divine Providence, as when he states, “God bless America”. All our early Presidents, in their Inaugural and Farewell addresses, mentioned God and his divine will manifest in the beginning of America. It cannot be denied any longer that their is a battle to radically transform America’s foundations, and to implement a Marxist agenda. It cannot be denied any longer that war has been declared against America’s Christian roots. It cannot be denied any longer that our Schools and social media have been centers of indoctrination, brainwashing, and propaganda, for the purpose of distorting and revising our History and heritage.
Report Post »SpankDaMonkey
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:25pm.
Boudreaux stands a better chance of winning the Nobel Prize. Than they do getting a Bible into a public school…….
Thibadeaux looked out the window and saw Boudreaux standing out in his field. Thibadeaux tells his wife Marie, that he is worried about Boudreaux.
The next day he looks out his window and he sees Boudreaux still standing out in his field and tells Marie that he’s really worried about Boudreaux.
The next day, he looks out and Boudreaux is still standing out in his field. He says, “Marie, Boudreaux done lost his mind and I need to go help him!”
He walks over to Boudreaux and says, “What the hell are you doing Boudreaux?”
Boudreaux says, “I’m trying to win de Nobel Prize, just like Obama.”
Thibadeaux says, “Mais, how you plan to did dat?”
Boudreaux says, “I saw Obama on a TV show and he say if I want to win de Nobel Prize dat I have to be out standing in my field.”
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:22pmI will laugh when Muslims and other beliefs will want to be taught in schools and people throw a hissy fit.
There was a school that use to send information home with the kids(things about school events, stuff going on in school etc) and kept it free of any religious information/pamphlets.
Jerry Falwell went to the school and somehow convinced the school to allow religious groups to send pamphlets home with the kids.
Everything was going well until a local wiccan group decided to take advantage of this and send home information regarding their beliefs and practices. Guess who thew a fit? The Christians who felt their kids were being forced to accept and learn about other beliefs against the parents wishes.
Introducing religion into public schools opens up too many questions and problems.
Report Post »vaman
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:20pm“There are people out there who hate the Bible and everything about it. That’s fine, but don’t deprive our children of biblical literature because of your personal feelings,”… No one is depriving children of anything. They can learn about the bible at home, in church or parochial schools ; places where it belongs. If they don’t offer classes on other religions for historical purposes, than no. This stinks of trying to get bible studies into public schools, no matter how they mask it. Even as an elective, the idea still doesn’t fly.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:24pmNot to worry!!!! A Virginia Public High School is teaching the Abrahamic Studies of Islam and why it is the perrfect religion and that Abraham was a Muslim…So Yes ..Absolutely we need to be offering classes in the Bible.. I would urge all Muslim students to take them…It will rock your world…..YESSSSSSS!!!
Report Post »Tifn8r
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:42pm“Places where it belongs”
Really? Sounds like you’ve bought into the liberal “separation of church and state” thing hook, line, and sinker.
Faith belongs anywhere and everywhere. The most ridiculous argument I hear about faith and Christianity is that it’s “forced down people’s throats.”
What’s actually happening now is that the liberal mentality, the cult of progressivism, and the binding shackles of political correctness are forcing IMmorality down the throats of those of us who take offense at it.
Your argument to keep religion in “places where it belongs” makes the assumption that those with faith should keep it to themselves, worship in secret, and hide that Light under a bushel. Meanwhile, the faithful are supposed to say nothing (so we don’t offend anyone) when we see a world filled with offenses against our sense of morality.
The bible classes should be taught if the local district votes for it.
Classes on other faiths should not be taught, unless there are enough students of faiths other than Christianity to merit the classes.
The district should be careful in passing this, to ensure that someone who respects the bible and the faiths of the students be teaching the class. I can already see the atheists and liberals lining up to teach the Bible class, only to disparage it and insult those students who earnestly seek answers.
Report Post »Briggston
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:19pmOn this one I will say yes because of if the THEORY of evolution and atheism can be taught in school then a varying opinion should be a viable option. Also if we are going to be forced to accept muslim, jewish and other religious practices influencing school policies and attendance specifics then that should be open to christianity to. However, I would include the following stipulations.
Report Post »1. it must be taught as an elective not mandatory class.
2. It must be based in the American religion principles and definition of Benjamin Franklin to prevent sectarian or non denominational bias. (no religious in fighting)
3. It must be centered in moral universal principles and not in Creed interpretations of scripture.
4. It mus also promote tolerance and christian charity to all peoples of different faiths as well as those
within Christianity itself.
5. It should teach the principles of a democratic republic government and how it’s principles and those of other faiths contributed to the founding of the Declaration of independence and the constitution.
That should be the curriculum.
ModerationIsBest
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:27pmThe Bible isn’t moral.
It talks about supernaturally ordained genocide, rape, slavery and teaches that a human sacrifice was necessary to save the “souls” of mankind.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:32pmEvolution is a fact, the term theory is the based on the scientific definition:
scientific principle to explain phenomena: a set of facts, propositions, or principles analyzed in their relation to one another and used, especially in science, to explain phenomena
I realize that Beckerheads believe the earth is only 6,000 years old and created by a magic sky god in 6 days, but you have no testable proof of this, no facts outside of a book complied in the 4th Century based on the writing traditions of nomadic goat herders.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:09pm@encidope,
How is evolution a “fact”? Your brilliant left wing nutcake scientists can’t even explain how a tornado is form, how the brain works or how a ant colony works. They have theories but no facts and these theories are taught in schools which are anti-God. So, you can’t prove simple tangibles stated above, yet you claim to know how the earth, man and everything was formed? Dope! The Bible is true yet not taught…
Report Post »atombomb
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:41pm@Cessna
How is evolution a “fact”? Your brilliant left wing nutcake scientists can’t even explain how a tornado is form, how the brain works or how a ant colony works. They have theories but no facts and these theories are taught in schools which are anti-God. So, you can’t prove simple tangibles stated above, yet you claim to know how the earth, man and everything was formed? Dope! The Bible is true yet not taught…
How tornadoes form: http://eo.ucar.edu/kids/dangerwx/tornado3.htm
How the brain works: http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/human-biology/brain.htm
How ant colonies work: http://www.globio.org/glossopedia/article.aspx?art_id=10
You’re welcome, amigo. Anything else you want?
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:05pmCessna, dealing with science here is the definition of Theory:
scientific principle to explain phenomena: a set of facts, propositions, or principles analyzed in their relation to one another and used, especially in science, to explain phenomena
Until proven wrong a Scientific Theory is accepted as fact.
The Bible is not proven true, there are no test that can be applied to it, either you accept it on FAITH (not science) as being true, or not.
Report Post »Tomr
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:46pm@encinom
Evolution is Not a fact. It has no explanation for the origin of life. For evolution to work, you first must have life. Darwin was close…so close to his theory that he fail to step back and see the big picture. Theory is theory until proven, at which time it becomes law. Suggest you bone up on the “scientific principle.”
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 6:31pmTomr
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:46pm
@encinom
Evolution is Not a fact. It has no explanation for the origin of life. For evolution to work, you first must have life. Darwin was close…so close to his theory that he fail to step back and see the big picture. Theory is theory until proven, at which time it becomes law. Suggest you bone up on the “scientific principle.”
____________________________
First the Theory of Evolution has evolued since the days of Darwin, changed and revised, tested and peere reviewed. To fall back and argue against Darwin, fails to reconize that science has advanced 100+ years.
As for your defintion of Theory and Laws, wrong again, Laws are basically mathamatical theories in physics they to are subject to change and modification as new facts become available. Newton’s laws do not apply at the sub-atomic level or at nearing light (relativity kicks in).
Here are the working definitions in science.
Laws are generalizations about what has happened, from which we can generalize about what we expect to happen. They pertain to observational data. The ability of the ancients to predict eclipses had nothing to do with whether they knew just how they happened; they had a law but not a theory.
Theories are explanations of observations (or of laws). The fact that we have a pretty good understanding of how stars explode doesn’t necessarily mean we could predict the next supernova; we have a theory but not a law.
Report Post »Tomr
Posted on January 26, 2012 at 9:58am@encinom
The key point you fail to understand is Darwin’s theory, although peer reviewed, fails to explain the origin of life. Aristotle’s belief that the earth was the center of the universe withstood peer review for over 1,000 years until Newton. Peer review, in this case, only means more than just one person is wrong.
Until you can explain to me how Darwin’s theory relates to the origin of life, I can only put Darwin’s theory in the Aristole column.
With respect to theory, take my earlier advise and bone up on the “scientific principle.”
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 26, 2012 at 10:50am@Tomr
One is never as blind as those that refuse to see.
You realize, that outside of the fantic fringe of the Christian Right, evolution is accepted, that it has been peer reviewed, tested, modified and reviewed again. You also realize that the original theory Darwin came up with has been changed over the last 100+ years as new evidence came to light. At the end of the day you are unable to accept facts and truths that are not based in a book of myths.
Report Post »Tomr
Posted on January 26, 2012 at 4:51pm@encinom
I have been a Proctologist for 25 years and you are the biggest ass have I seen in my professionl life. The points you make are so preposterous it is obvious to all that I have “rectum.”
P.S. Don’t forget to bone up on the “scientific principle.”
Report Post »godlovinmom
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:19pmIf anyone would take the time and look up the history of our public schools… they would know that when public schools were started here in America, the bible was taught in school..but since we’ve became a nation political correctness…it was out the door…why…who knows…but we all know since the bible was taken out…our schools have suffered tremendously….thats a fact!
Report Post »Mary M. Tebbe
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:00pmgodlovinmom: You are correct. My husband is a School Superintendent of over four decades and he would agree with you. Our children now try to fill the vacuum in their lives with sex, drugs, and all sorts of things, when that is a vacuum that can only be filled by their Creator. It is a sad state of affairs. Parents, schools, and Churches are responsible to bring up good and Godly children, yet all three fail them. No wonder we are a morally and spiritually bankrupt people. We have to start somewhere to correct this wrong perpetrated upon our children. We need to stop making excuses and just get the job done.
Report Post »godlovinmom
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:11pmThat is EXACTLY why I homeschool……I care too much for my child to allow her to be conditioned like all other public school kids…also I want her to learn to read and write!
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 6:57pmHere’s an interesting read about our public schools, God and America: http://www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/america.html
Here’s some very informative commentary regarding our schools and other issues: George Gordon’s School of Law: http://library.georgegordon.com/audio
Report Post »Rational Man
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:19pmThe Bible used to be a common textbook in America.
Why did that change? Why should that change?
It is a history book. It’s a social commentary. It’s a moral commentary, at the very least.
Even if your an atheist, isn’t it neccessary to tell both sides of the arguement to have the disscussion?
I thought we were “free” to choose. Not much of a choice if you only get one side of the story. Don’t tell me what to think or believe, let me decide after recieving the whole truth. Not just one side of the story. The Dept.of Ed., (controled by progressives), only want to tell their side of the story. Thats propaganda.
“The Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations.”
John Adams
“It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”
George Washington
“Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the governance of any others.”
John Adams.
“The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”-
Report Post »-Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.
ModerationIsBest
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:24pmThe fact that you call the things taught in the Bible as moral makes me question if you know what morality is.
Your book teaches that a human sacrifice was necessary for people “sins.”
Give me a break.
Report Post »beckwasfox
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:00pm@Moderation
You miss most of the point but that’s not surprising. That sacrifice was 100% God and 100% human. This teaching beats the alternative teaching which is death(inevitable, cold and final). I will hold on to eternal life thanks to that human/God sacrifice who didn’t have to die but chose to.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 7:04pmThe General hopes and trusts that every officer and man will endeavor to live and act as becomes a Christian soldier defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country. – George Washington
I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: that God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. – Benjamin Franklin
We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better that the builders of Babel. – James Madison’s notes of the Constitutional Convention
Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments. – Charles Carroll (Signer of the Declaration, from Maryland)
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 7:06pm“Fisher Ames lived in Massachusetts from 1758 to 1808. He was a publicist and a statesman, as well as a judge and a Massachusetts representative to the Federal Congress between the years of 1791 and 1797. He is known as the primary author of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution – the amendment most often quoted today as a reason to ban religious expression from public life and, in particular, public schools.
On September 20, 1789, Fisher Ames was quoted in Paladian Magazine, giving his view of American education:
‘We have a dangerous trend beginning to take place in our education. We’re starting to put more and more textbooks into our schools. We’ve become accustomed of late of putting little books into the hands of children, containing fables and moral lessons. We’re spending less time in the classroom on the Bible, which should be the principal text in our schools. The Bible states these great moral lessons better than any other man-made book’” http://www.aproundtable.org/tps2.cfm?ID=940&issuecode=history
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 7:10pmSamuel Adams wrote a letter on October 4, 1790 to his cousin John Adams, who was vice president of the United States: “Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age, by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, of inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity and universal philanthropy, and in subordination to these great principles, the love of their country; of instructing them in the art of self-government… in short, of leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system. Knowledge apart from God and His truth is little better than complete ignorance, because the most important aspect of education is the imbuing of moral principles. All education is religious – it imparts a basic set of principles and ideals, a worldview. How the youth are educated today will determine the course a nation takes in the future.”
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 7:23pmHey Mod,
I know this won’t sink in this time, any more than all the other times I have said this, but………..
If your ultimate goal is to somehow convince anyone that your way is the correct way, and that religion, (Christianity specifically), is wrong?
Then you are spinning your wheels, because your form of persuasion is woefully lacking.
Actually though, I’m pretty sure your goal is just to mock, and incite because of some deep seated issues.
If being an atheist means to be like you? I’d rather join up with OWS.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on January 26, 2012 at 1:01am@BECKWASFOX
Actually I completely understand, you are just brainwashed by your own religion that any logical rebuttal that doesn’t fit your belief is classified as “not understanding.”
Fact is, your God, who is all loving, all knowing and all powerful COULD have chosen to just forgive mankind for sin and let us be on our merry way.
Instead, your God who is bloodthirsty throughout the old testament one ups himself and sends himself as a human, to be sacrificed to himself, to create a loophole for a system he created.
Your belief is illogical and frankly not original.
Report Post »beckwasfox
Posted on January 26, 2012 at 5:45pmActually you understand very little and you have placed yourself in a position where you sit in judgement God. There is no greater love than a man give his life for another. What are you giving or contributing? You can have so much more but you don’t know because it is you that has been brainwashed by a particular world view. I am truly sorry that you don’t have ears to hear or eyes to see.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:19pmI am a follower of Christ, I love this nation and was founded on God’s principals. However, I do not want some liberal, angry atheist distorting the truth to these kids. Teach math, English, history, economics and science. No agenda, no BS…PERIOD!
Report Post »kentuckypatriot
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:37pmGood point!!!
Report Post »Mary M. Tebbe
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:09pmcessna152: Teachers have to be qualified to teach a subject in school. That is a state requirement.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:44pmQualified? In what way? Who approves the “qualification”? Qualified as in the math teacher than taught my 8 year old about gays? I would love to see God’s truth taught in school, but Nazi/Marxists would twist the truth.
Report Post »On a side note to the Atheist dopes, Bible can be taught as a book on history, guidelines and what the founders used as a framework for the USA.
vaman
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:15pm“There are people out there who hate the Bible and everything about it. That’s fine, but don’t deprive our children of biblical literature because of your personal feelings,”… No one is depriving children of anything. They can learn about the bible at home, in church or parochial schools ; places where it belongs. If they don’t offer classes on other religions, then it is clearly a scheme to push christianity on public school children. Even as an elective, the idea still doesn’t fly.
Report Post »Rational Man
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:26pmMost people hate math too. But it is forced on us whether we like it or not. In truth, the teachings of the Bible are far more important to an individual than knowing the sum of 2+2.
Report Post »atombomb
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:47pmprove they’re true, rational man
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on January 26, 2012 at 1:02am“Rational man” just said the Bible is more important than math.
I rest my case.
Report Post »obxned
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:14pmThere are plenty of purely secular reasons to include The Bible in the curriculum. Here are a few:
1. The writings of Shakespeare and the King James translation of The Bible are the basis for our modern English language.
2. The Bible contains an early history of the people of the Middle East written by those who lived it.
3. The Ten Commandments are the basis of our laws, no matter how hard some people try to remove them from our courthouses.
4. The stories and morality of The Bible are deeply entrenched in our history and culture.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:40pmAs a Christian myself, allow me to respond to some of these, as I see you quite off-basis:
“1. The writings of Shakespeare and the King James translation of The Bible are the basis for our modern English language.”
What? How did you come to believe such a thing? “Modern English” evolved from older forms of language over time. The “basis” for our modern English language would be a combination of several other languages, not a few specific books. There’s no doubting the contribution of both the Bible and Shakespeare nor their enduring popularity, but to say they’re the basis of our modern language ignores 99% of everything else in the process.
“3. The Ten Commandments are the basis of our laws, no matter how hard some people try to remove them from our courthouses.”
Again, where do you get this from? Please tell me where Commandments 1-5 are found in our Constitution. The last 5 are all covered in our legal system, but found in almost every country. Our founding fathers were obviously influenced by their faith, but the Commandments are nowhere near the “basis” of our laws.” The basis is the Constitution, and that’s derived from several sources (most prominent being British law).
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 7:13pmIf the Holy Bible is taught in Schools, it should be the Authorized Version. It was thee Bible used in America for hundreds of years: http://biblereview.wordpress.com/category/king-james-bible/
Report Post »rparrny
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:13pmThere is no other religious book that has had more influence on the world than the Bible, all the other faiths…Muslim, Wiccan…whatever….cannot make that claim. So they can whine all they want, they don’t measure up historically.
Report Post »TRONINTHEMORNING
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:11pmI say Yes. And in all the other 56 states too!
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:10pmYES! Even if you aren’t a Christian, people take Religious Studies classes at state universities purely for the wealth of accurate history found in the Bible.
What always boggles my mind with the separation of church and state crowd is…… The citizens primarily met at CHURCHES in discussing going to war with Britain for the country’s independence! Studying the Bible was part of schools curriculum. Heck, most of today’s liberal New England universities were founded by Christians.
Report Post »NewLife56
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:07pmSounds good to me
Report Post »katamb55
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:11pmWhat version of the Bible will we teach from? What religion’s doctrine will we teach? I once took a New Testament class at a university and we hardly got through Matthew with all the students raising their hands to tell what their church’s doctrine taught. Plus most churches have scripture study classes. If they want to form a club outside of school time to study it that seems ok. Or give them release time to have religion classes.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:27pmPeople- remember that the likes of Bill Ayers puts together curriculums and writes text books.
I think Satan loves the idea of allowing atheists to write books about the Bible to teach our children. Do you think good will come from athiests teaching Bible as “literature” (ie-not fact) to kids???
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 7:16pmWhat version? How about the most read, influential, sold, and widely used, since America’s beginning, and around the world? http://biblereview.wordpress.com/2010/09/11/the-king-james-bible/
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:02pmKeep it as an elective, thus with it being optional there will be no compromise of the church/state seperation.
Report Post »SurfinRallylizard
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:17pmIt doesn’t compromise the state/church separation either… because there is no state/church separation, Congress shall declare no acts… teaching the Bible or even summarizing major religions together should be required courses, science is as much a religion to some people as those subjects yet those are mandatory.. history is mandatory… what do you think the Bible is, the entire OT is history. English courses are mandatory… the Bible uses every literary form available, including apocalyptic writing that is never used anymore. What people don’t need in schools is the direction towards one religion or assumed belief in a God/Gods, but the Bible and other religious text offer extraordinary educational benefits and correlate to every other subject taught in school already. Bible = book, its the original one, maybe we should study it…
Report Post »ICEDRAGONNITE
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:23pmThere is no separation of church and state. This is a product of left wing propaganda foisted on the Supreme Court. If properly Adjudicated it will be abolished. We have been lied to for so many years that we are beginning to use the terms as if they are true. YOU KNOW THE BIG LIE!!
Report Post »conservativeblackman
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:24pm@snow Elective my a$$! It ought to be mandatory, you obviously haven’t been in a public high school recently. These little hellions need all the religion they can get!
Report Post »Locked
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:47pm“Keep it as an elective, thus with it being optional there will be no compromise of the church/state seperation.”
This likely is not sufficient. Engle v Vitale (1962) ruled on prayer in school, and the court included in their opinion that even if the prayer is non-mandatory, it still violates the Establishment Clause. Just because the course is elective likely won’t stop the SCotUS from ruling it unconstitutional.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:50pmYeah, they NEED to be told how awful, terrible, and deserving of everlasting punishment . . . . . even though that is a type of child abuse. . . . . and they need to see how there is a god who condones many actions that they [the children] may find morally repugnant.
Yeah, . . . . can’t wait for teachers to teach from the Bible. Maybe if they do it right, it will cause kids to actually start questioning their Sunday School teachers, pastor, then eventually leave the religion all together. Most likely, though, it will be taught by an evangelical and will be the basic white washed, watered down lie that many pulpits emit on Sundays.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:56pmMy comment above was directed to “conservativeblackman”.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 2:59pmNo way! Unless they want to teach from other religions. Then I will say no!
Report Post »rparrny
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:09pmIt’s not religion they are teaching, it‘s history and it’s affect the bible had on culture.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:11pmWhat do you mean by your comment? This is like saying we should read from comics or books like Harry Potter because their influence on culture.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:11pmOh please……have you heard of CAIR and their full on assault to teach Islam in public schools? Exactly what history have you learned from the Qu’ran?
Report Post »rparrny
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:15pmAnd what other religion has impacted the world like the Bible? Just from a historical perspective…no one can come close to making a claim. If another religion could make that claim…sure…I’d be interested in the course myself.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:18pmAll religions have impacted the world one way or another. Look at Hinduism in Indian and it’s influence on Buddhism and other Eastern religions that have billions of followers. I would say either let all religion be taught or we shouldn’t allow only the bible to be taught.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:20pmHow exactly was Hinduism or Buddhism part of America’s founding?
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:25pmHow exactly was Christianity apart of Americas founding? This would allow the bible to be studied as a elective course. This has nothing to do with history; all this has to do with is religion promotion is the class room. So, this comes down to how other religions will be allowed to share the Quran or talk about Hinduism, etc. You understand it would be bias just to teach Christianity then other religions. Do you agree?
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:26pmThe Bible in and of itself is not religious.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:29pm“The Bible in and of itself is not religious.” What do you mean by this comment? The bible is not a religion? The bible is a religious text used by Christians who are believers of the religion called Christianity. Just because you say it‘s not a religion doesn’t mean it is.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:50pm“The Bible in and of itself is not religious.”
The only way you can accept such a premise is if you approach the Bible as 100% fiction. As no one will ever say such a thing (no one sane, at least; even the staunchest atheist would grudgingly call it historical in places), your statement is completely false. The holy text of a religion is religious.
Report Post »Zcat
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 2:57pmAbsolutely!
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:03pmDon’t get mad when the Muslims, Wiccans and every other crackpot world religion wants equal time.
Report Post »rparrny
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:11pmNeither the Muslims or the Wiccans have a book that has influenced the world like the Bible, if they did, I would say…sure, why not.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:18pmThey already are advancing those initiatives, GONZ. As the lefties keep pushing Christianity entirely out of schools and schoolyards (i. e. meet at the pole), CAIR pushes forward with “cultural studies” of Islam.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150289953584442
“She urged schools to offer educational activities about Ramadan and Muslim holidays for all students.”
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:20pmLOL Rparrny
Report Post »You think that will stop them from wanting and getting equal time? I agree with your statement but, it’s irrelevant.
Gonzo
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:24pmCopatriots, I’m for it. I’m just saying… be prepared.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:38pmNever dreamed the country would look like this. I’m as prepared as one can be for whatever insanity comes next. :-)
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 2:55pmAs long as the Course is an Elective — Why not?
Report Post »fatjack
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 3:19pmyes
Report Post »TXVET48
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:04pmAgreed. If there aren’t enough students signing up, cancel the class. Give them the option.
Report Post »mdeputy7
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:52pmOk I’m really tired of people not only saying “in the clouds” referring to God / Christianity….but also of those attacking it as if it is not real. If you have a decent argument, present it…but respect my beliefs in the process. I respect yours…in fact, I’m required to by law apparently.
To those of you who attack others’ religions as well, please stop. You are making Christians look bad. Yes, Christ is the only way to heaven, but attacking others’ beliefs is not how He got it across, and it’s now how we should either.
Report Post »qpwillie
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:56pm@wireman24
Report Post »Nobody who understands the Bible beiieves in “imaginary friends up in the clouds”. The Bible teaches of an intelligent first cause who/which created, among other things, both the “up” and the clouds.
Kiba
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:00pmDude this ‘imaginary friend in the clouds” stuff sounds so elementary. I get it w/you people, if you cant see it 24/7 its just not there right? I feel for someone like you who apperantly has such a weak and certainly ‘end of the fence’ mentality. If someone has gas standing next to you do you see it? But you know its there dont you? I dont like saying this much because I wont argue about it but I know for an absolute fact God definatly does exist and I couldnt deny him if I tried. I always said that anyone that doesnt believe in God just hasnt needed him yet.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:02pmI see nothing wrong with what he said. “Up in the clouds” is biblical. To many people, the biblical god IS “an imaginary friend”. They rely on obscure means as “relationship” that is similar to those who believe they have communed with ghosts, aliens, or faeries.
This isn’t “making fun of a religion”. It is a factual statement based upon lack of evidence and upon how the human brain is capable of simulacrum.
Report Post »qpwillie
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:16pm@DeavonReye
The God of the Bible claims himself to be “the very Ayah” (Exodus 3:14). If you study the ancient Hebrew word, “Ayah”, Then you’ll know how ridiculous it is for atheists to try to argue against the Bible without even knowing what it claims.
Hint: You’re probably not going to get it from the preachers or the churches.
Report Post »Mitchm999
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:18pmKiba:
Next time I smell something bad, I should believe in god?
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 5:27pm@QPWillie. . . . what is stated in your holy book is not credible evidence, but circular begging. I’m not even sure why you bring it up. And ultimately, it doesn’t matter because most in christianity [as an off shoot of judaism] are entirely unaware of its true beginning.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 7:27pmI don’t believe in imaginary friends. I don’t believe in a sky god either. I do not worship the stars, moon or planets. I believe in the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. He does not solely exist in my head. This God has been testified on by numerous witnesses, whose accounts of his actions and words have been most sacredly passed down by numerous generations, with exact precision and the most care for preservation. To believe this God is a myth is to deny and ignore World history and his manifest influence in our society and daily life. His obvious influence in our Western Civilization is most unique in the World and cannot be ignored, as it has all been recorded and readily distributed. How his depositions and revelations have been adapted and applied by numerous peoples and nations, may be debated, but his manifest presence in the destiny of Nations cannot, as it is also most related and relevant to various issues we face today.
The Holy Bible has been the best selling book in the entire history of printing for a reason. And it’s not because they thought it to be false. You can’t ignore history and not accept the impact that the Bible has had in our World, especially in Western Civilization. Whether good or bad, that’s up for debate.
The Holy Bible mentions vast cultures, civilizations and time periods. Artifacts have all confirmed the events recorded within those sacred pages. The Media-Persian empire? The Greek world? It all has relevance.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 7:51pmOur nation, in its true history (not these past 60 years wherein our Constitution and form of Government has greatly evolved and morphed to an unknown and complex system), has never been neutral in regarding its foundation and heritage. Some phrases from our founding; Great Governor of the World, firm reliance on Divine Providence, their Creator, Nature’s God, In the Year of our Lord, Supreme Judge of the World, Blessings of Liberty, self evident Truths, all men are created equal, So help me God, etc. This has always been a Nation and people that has recognized the Sovereignty of a higher Authority, and has always sought its protection and blessing. It is Christianity which advocates treating everyone equal and to love your neighbor as yourself. And to think that we founded a whole Nation on the existence of some “imaginary friend”? The enlightenment age brought the concept of a higher Authority, to which all men were answerable to. It adopted a divine philosophy, which declared that the universe was founded with a purpose, that within our Natural world were found rules and laws, that in all our creation there has always existed order, that within us was given the power to reason and to think, that we may, ourselves, discover and explore the mysteries of the world, and yet with wonder and admiration witness the grandeur of it all. The universe, with its manifest clockwork ever evident, gave science credibility, a sound foundation, and purposeful pursuit.
Report Post »mdeputy7
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 4:58pmShow the flaws…now come on. You can’t let people decide for themselves when they are given the facts? You have to try to indoctrinate them? Isn’t that what this country is all about? Tolerance without judgement? Or is that only for non-Christians?
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 10:40pmWhat part of Elective did you not understand.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 10:44pmIf they compared the Koran to Bible, yeah I would be okay with this. Having said this, usually when a group offers to hold Koran only teaching, then it usually means indoctrination and converting; which I would be against.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on January 25, 2012 at 10:55pmOh how you are wrong, let me count the ways.
Yes, I went to church up until age 8 or 9 and then my parents stopped.
Yes, I always believed in God, but never went to church as a young and older adult.
Yes, I found my way back about six years ago on my own. I am not 60.
No, I am not afraid of death; I am quite calm. Most likely it will be you who go off the deep end at the end.
In Christianity, there is only ONE God. Now, there are men who have claimed to be god, but we know they are false. Know the difference.
As far as the deaths under the auspices of religion, most have occurred when Arabs/Muslims attacked villages of Gentiles/Jews and raped the women, pillaged the goods, and kidnapped and made slaves under the guise of Islam. Seeing this is unacceptable to Christians, they created an army and marched to where the Muslims were to show their actions were unacceptable and would not be tolerated. I guess you forgot about this part of the religious wars. Believe it or not, we were attacked by Muslims in the 1800′s, but perhaps you did not study World history in school.
Ignorance begats ignorance.
Report Post »