Should Christians Participate in Halloween Celebrations? (Poll)
- Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:19pm by
Billy Hallowell
- Print »
- Email »
Most Americans revere Halloween as the only day of the year during which their children can go door-to-door to collect massive amounts of candy from neighbors, while wearing bizarre costumes. For many, the celebrations associated with the holiday are benign, entertaining and carry very little significance.
But others — manly those in America’s Christian community — see participation in the holiday as an official observance of evil (or at the least, a positive reinforcement of negative forces). Over the years, many churches have come up with alternative plans so that families can avoid the negative tenets that are often associated with the holiday. Often dubbed “harvest festivals,” these celebrations provide children and families with candy, Bible games and other associated alternative activities.
In a sense, these celebrations provide an opportunity for families and kids, alike, to enjoy the holiday while keeping out the ghosts, ghouls and other dark elements. This year, there’s another alternative activity in the works that its founding pastor hopes will be adopted around the globe. I’m referring to “Jesus Ween.”
As you may recall, the Blaze already brought you a report about this alternative, Christian movement that seeks to put a more positive spin in Halloween. Founded by Paul Ade, a pastor from Calgary, Canada, the Vancouver Sun describes Jesus Ween as follows:
Instead of chocolate bars and gummy bears, [Ade is] asking people to shun demonic costumes and instead dole out pocket-sized bibles or other “Christian gifts.”
The idea has caught on in communities across North America, according to Jesus Ween creator Paul Ade. He’s hoping it will bring a new perspective to an otherwise pagan festival, he said.
“I do not associate myself with ghosts, demons, Satan and witches. These are things I want to get rid of,” he said.
Celebrations like Jesus Ween and church-led harvest festivals are praised by many as beneficial to children. But others see these diversions as ineffective.
“I think it’s awful. It feeds into the stereotype that to be a person who follows Christ is to be against everything outside of the church,” said John Van Sloten, the pastor of New Hope Church (Calgary). ”I’m kind of appalled by someone doing this.”
While Van Sloten was speaking specifically about Jesus Ween, it’s likely that some Christians and non-Christians, alike, would agree with him when also considering harvest parties and other related activities. When it comes to general Halloween celebrations, John Mark Reynolds, a professor at Biola University, writes:
Good Christians are right to want to avoid evil, but Halloween is not evil, at least the way it is celebrated today. Some sincere people may worry about the origins of Halloween, but that is a mistake. [...]
The day after All Hallows, Christians celebrate the lives of the greatest of the faithful who have died and gone to God. On All Hallows the fact that we will all die is brought home to us. We do fear death, but rejoice in the victory of Christ over death. The costumes and the joy poke fun at the diabolic, they do not embrace it.
Both sides make a compelling case regarding Halloween celebrations. In the end, the decision to participate or to refrain must be decided by individual families. That being said, where do you stand? Take our poll, below, and let us know:
Popular Stories
Paper Details Obama Admin’s Alleged Secret Note Sent to Iran: If Israel Attacks, We Won’t Get Involved 585 Comments
‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 413 Comments
This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 412 Comments
Roseanne Barr: Most Billionaires ‘Violent Pedophiles’ & ‘Heartless’ Cocaine Addicts 374 Comments
President Obama Issues Major ‘Green Energy’ Executive Order 368 Comments
Faith
- This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 412 Comments
Pakistani Muslim Cleric Accused of Framing Disabled Christian Girl in Koran-Burning Case Read More- ‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 413 Comments
Meet the Controversial German Imam Accused of Brutally Beating His Wife & Pushing Sharia Law Read More
‘Self-Proclaimed Messiah’ & Unification Church Leader the Rev. Sun Myung Moon Has Died — Here’s His Life Story Read More
Business
- President Obama Issues Major ‘Green Energy’ Executive Order 368 Comments
- Germany’s Upcoming Court Ruling Will be Huge for the EU Read More
Ford Looks to Beat Toyota for Best-Selling Car in 2012 With This Model 151 Comments
Bernanke & QE3: Here’s What You Need to Know Read More- ‘Extortion’: Why Did the Labor Department ‘Drop the Hammer’ on Oregon Farmers? 303 Comments
Technology
- This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 412 Comments
‘TaserDrone’: Hackers Weaponize Quadcopter With Actual ‘Shocking’ Technology Read More
Ever Heard of the Wild ‘Burning Man’ Festival in the Middle of the Nev. Desert? Here’s Your Primer Read More
Stanford Develops Technology ‘Better Than Steroids’ for Athlete Recovery Read More
Have You Pretended to Know What ‘the Cloud’ Is? You’re Not Alone Read More
Submitting your tip... please wait!
Comments (581)
SageInWaiting
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:50pmHalloween, a festival celebrating largely witches and sorcerers, spirits, vampires, and death; a night that also happens to be a Satanic high-unholy “day.” Torah forbids eating blood, divination, and sorcery ( Lev 19:26 ). We shouldn’t be defiled by mediums or spiritualists (v31); God sets his face against those who do (Lev 20:6). These determine blessing and curses (Deut 11:26-28). These acts are detestable; don’t imitate them (Deut 14:9-14). Divination cost King Saul his life (1 Chron 10:13-14). Avoid every kind of evil (1 Thes 5:22-23). Live as children of light (Eph 5:6-11). What fellowship can light have with darkness? Touch no unclean thing (2 Cor 6:14-18).
Probably would be a good idea to leave this “celebration” alone.
Report Post »MASTER YODA
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:55pmWe are to be a light to this world, not part of this world. We do not participate in that pagan day. These Christian churches that have “harvest costume parties” are just celebrating Halloween and calling it something else because they are afraid of driving away church members with little kids.
Report Post »Psytoxic
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:02pmIronically, Halloween has it‘s origins with a Christian holiday while Christmas has it’s origins with a pagan one.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:06pmnothing like letting a book of myths get un the way of having fun. More candy for me.
Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:09pmWe should not participate in any Paganism. Just because you call a tree Jesus doesn’t make it Jesus. Just because you say you smoke dope for Jesus, doesn’t make it ok. Same principle here. Paganism is Paganism and if you read the Bible, Paganism is an abomination and forbidden.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:10pmPerhaps we should also ask “should atheists and non-christians be exchanging gifts and taking time off from work at Christmas time”?
Report Post »bitterclinger
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:12pmLighten up, Francis. It’s one day a year. No one is forcing anyone to celebrate Halloween. I‘m secure enough in my Christian faith to know that giving out candy to trick or treaters or dressing myself or my kids in costumes isn’t going to result in eternal hellfire and damnation.
Report Post »Brooke Lorren
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:13pmWe don’t really celebrate Halloween (or should I say Helloween?). We do often pick up dress up clothes afterwards when costumes are on sale for 90% off though.
I did take my kids to my gym’s Halloween party, because I was going to the gym anyway. They put on dress-up clothes.
My kids are concerned that they won’t be getting any candy, but I do have candy in the cupboard for them, and I think I’ll make some caramel popcorn for them tonight.
I used to celebrate Halloween, until one year when I was at Knott’s Scary Farm and I went to this show where they were laughing at topics like death and all that. I thought it was more wrong than funny. I’ve been bothered by the holiday ever since. So I just skip over it and start getting in the mood for Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:16pm@Pstoxic
No Halloween does not have its roots in Christianity. Nope nope nope. That is a false teaching and lie. Do your own research and see. If you need help finding the truth I’ll gladly help you. Yes Christmas is a Pagan festival as well.
Report Post »Polwatcher
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:19pmLighten up a little and re-learn how to have fun. Where we kive, at least 95% of Christians celebrate Halloween.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:22pm“No Halloween does not have its roots in Christianity”
what do you care, since you don’t believe in the trinity, you’re not a christian anyway.
Report Post »LibertyGoddess
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:22pmHalloween has no significance and is harmless, unless you turn it into a devil-worshiping kind of event. Dressing like a princess or power ranger, going door to door for free candy and compliments is harmless and fun for children.
It’s Christmas being hijacked by Santa Claus that irks me more, so… no Santa’s in my home. Holidays are what YOU make them. Just love others without strings.
Report Post »PropstotheGast
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:23pmYou know, America is full of things you probably dont agree with. It might be less stressful on you and much less annoying for us if you just moved someplace where no one is going to offend you by having fun. I hear the Theocrats in Iran are pretty good at stopping all forms of amusement, maybe you should look into a condo over there.
Those of us who recognize that being a Christian is possible without being an a-hole will be taking our kids out tonight to terrorize the neighborhood. My Kid is going as a T-Rex, of the meat eating 85 million old variety.
Report Post »MomaGrisley2
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:25pmMost Christians do not realize that Halloween is a satanic and pathetic attempt to replace Sukkot (Festival of the Booths) and let me add if you ever have chance to celebrate this biblical festival you should do so for it is a week of great celebration! Sukkot, YES! Halloween…NO!
Report Post »just the facts
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:32pmHalloween came about in a protestal (sp) manner. At the end of the growing season, people used to get together and have what is known as ‘harvest festivals’. At these festivals, people all chipped in with part of their fruit of labor they grew and thanked God for their bounty. They thanked God!!!!
Halloween, ‘all hallowed eve’ came about as a mocking of that festival.
Where one was thankful for who they were and the work they did, others for some reason were not as joyous and had to ‘disguise’ themselves – as some one who had no identity – ashamed for who they were. Unfortunately, theres a lot of that going around today.
Halloween unfortunately has grew into a ‘holiday’ if you will, and I fully believe it is a lie and demonistic in origins. Sad.
Report Post »KevINtampa
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:34pmAll Hallowed Eve=The day before the hallowed souls (saints) are honored.
All Hallowed Eve has been abbreviated to be Halloween, which somehow has been mainly forgotten.
And instead of dressing up like saints; somehow we’ve come to dress up as demons, witches, axe murderers, slutty nurses, werewolves, vampires, and an assortment of everything anti-saintly. When this happened….who knows…it’s kinda like trying to figure when exactly the US has come to be a socialist country, without really remembering what liberty is.
On that note, I love the “new” Halloween.Nothing like being a kid and having one day a year where acting like the devil gets you some candy. Also, nothing like being an adult and going to a Halloween party and getting laid by scantly a uniformed police lady with a pair of decent handcuffs while still wearing a 70′s goaltender mask. Just like it’s nice to have funds deposited into my EBT account just one day every month for doing nothing except having been born…
Isn’t it nice that we have a day outta the year to discount the possible existence of true evil with the statement of, “You’re being too straight and narrow, it’s not evil just some fun, lighten up, it’s not a sin.”
But seriously, I love Halloween. It is fun… maybe not “good fun”, but fun anyway. Just lighten up and live a little people.
Signed,
Report Post »Lucifer (I’m already in character for tonight.)
Emrys
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:36pmThe poll question is not a very good one in how it is worded. I may think that it’s “okay” for Christians to celebrate it in some way, but I would not say that anyone “Should,” celebrate it. The word “Should” should not be used for this particular type of polling questions. :)
Report Post »Dahart
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:38pmGood griff! I’m so tired of everyone just sucking the fun out of everything…..give me a break
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:50pmjoe1234,
You are a very funny guy. You don’t know much, but you are amusing none-the-less.
Report Post »Classical Liberal
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:54pmOnly a moron would look at Halloween and become offended. From the poll results, a good chunk of the Blaze users fall into the “idiot” category.
A simple and fun holiday to celebrate the harvest and prepare for the coming winter that also happens to honor the existence of God and the dead who have left us, and there are actually people so stupid they would attack the holiday saying its about worshipping the devil.
Shame on you people for your ignorance and Shame on you for your arrogance. Halloween recognizes the existence of the immortal soul. It reminds people that the devil exists, and that he is an evil piss who would have us stray off of the path God has layed before us. A message like that is worth its weight in Glenn Beck Gold.
To all you Haters Posting Here, “HATERS GONNA HATE.”
Report Post »GodHatesFigs
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:58pmI dressed as the most famous zombie in the world.
Report Post »Solzhenitsin
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:59pmHarvest Parties are like the early church creating Christmas to compete with Saturnalia. Guess who won that battle? Can Christ transform a culture or not? If so, how would He transform the culture of Halloween? When you draw a parallel it’s a great way to illustrate the difference. Personally, I won’t be handing out treats tonight and I throw my enjoyment of the beauty of autumn into the Thanksgiving holiday, but I‘d rather see a Harvest party at my church or in a believer’s home than to have no alternative which directs a child’s attention from things of darkness to the source of eternal light.
Report Post »mbriz
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:13pmBlah, blah, blah. It’s about candy, and scaring people. Get over yourself.
Report Post »Gerrymanderer
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:15pmWe should have a good time on Halloween. Besides Christianity, the religion that spread throughout Europe, there are ancient rites and rituals associated with ancient civilizations. The Celts, a forgotten pre-Christian people, have given us Halloween. In addition, the Roman festival of Pomona has also contributed to certain Halloween customs. I for one, who is Roman Catholic and of Irish descent, find pride in my ancient European ancestry and custom. This is a throw back celebration that All Saints Day couldn’t conquer. In fact it was in retaliation. The spirit survived. Don’t let Emperors, Popes, Presbyters, and politically correct fools take this day away.
Report Post »hidden_lion
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:19pmIt is called “all saints day” for the religious folks. For the most part the modern tradition is just about fun and dressing up, you don’t have to dress as witches and ghouls. Learn to have fun. Quit robbing your children of their childhood.
Report Post »Bonesaw
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:24pmHere you go. Plain and Simple.
You don’t see witches, wiccans, pagans, druids, or satanists putting up nativity scenes in their yards on Christmas because “It’s just that time of year, and its just what everyone does”. You never see them put up crosses on Easter either.
Why is that? Hmmmm…. YET Christians participate in the festivities surrounding the highest pagan/satanic holiday. Why is THAT?
I dont celebrate holloween. My kids dont celebrate holloween.
Report Post »hidden_lion
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:26pmDon’t forget Easter as western christians call the death and rebirth of Christ was also Pagan festival. The proper term for the christian holiday is pascha, Easter is the name of a pagan goddess.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:39pmCelts began this practice over 2000 years ago…It was the eve of their festival of Samhain. Samhain was the end of the old year and beginning of new year. The day was used to give thanks to Baal (Pagan God) and the eve is when evil spirits were the most powerful.
The Irish myth of Stingy Jack brought us the Pagan practice of Jack O Lanterns which started with a turnip. The myth is based of a deal with the devil in which after tricking the devil and dying the Devil gave jack a glowing piece of coal to put in a turnip since the devil promised not to take his soul.
This Pagan festival BEFORE Christ was adopted and brought into Roman Churches. Not all churches but Roman churches. Basically these “churches” said it was ok contradicting the teachings of the Bible. The Bible clearly speaks of what happens to the churches that follow paganism.
No you can’t worship a tree and say it is for Jesus. Just like you give your children instructions to follow, God gave us instructions to follow. Not practicing paganism is one of the instructions.
@Joe
Enjoy your live animal sacrifice to Satan your dad tonight. You speak just like him.
Report Post »ValiantDefender
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:46pmmy 2 cents.
Report Post »1) We absolutely do not have any demonic activities. No blood sacrificies, no scary movies (any time of the year).
2) we do have fun drinking punch and watching our kids throw been bags at pumpkin shaped boards and such.
3) Spiders, bats, etc are all part of nature so don’t care about them.
grandmaof5
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:51pmLIBERTYGODESS, the voice of reason. Halloween used to be fun for kids but now they are being jerked in one direction or the other, depending on their parent’s beliefs. Growing up Presbyterian, our church used to sponsor a Halloween party, bobbing for apples, trick or treating…it was fun and, as you said, what you make it.
Report Post »Curtman41
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:51pmIf only I hadn’t allowed my kids to dress up and trick or treat. They wouldn’t have all turned into ravaging, murdering satanists. If I had only listened to the warnings of the emotionally based, religious do gooder’s. These are the same people who suggest that eating at an Applebees is inappropriate because they have a bar and serve sinful alcohol.
jblaze
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:58pmShould Christians Observe Halloween?
October 31, 2011 | From theTrumpet.com
By Eric Anderson
On Monday evening, millions of Americans—even many professing Christians—will participate in the nation’s second-most lucrative holiday of the year: Halloween. It is the occasion for parties, pranks and children requesting treats or threatening tricks. Many dress up as zombies or ghosts, or masquerade in other grotesque costumes and eerie disguises. Why? They don’t know. They just do it because that’s what others are doing. But should Christians celebrate this obviously pagan festival?
It is clear that Halloween’s symbolism is based on darkness. But how did our Western society come up with such a bizarre holiday?
History shows that ancient pagans performed mystical rites and ceremonies in honor of the dead on their “New Year’s Eve” (October 31). This celebration helped preserve the false doctrine of the “immortality of the soul”—that the dead aren’t really dead.
Years ago, Halloween was simply the evening celebration in anticipation of “All Saints’ Day”—November 1—in honor of the “lord of the dead.” This was actually in honor of the devil, not God. The Holy Bible reveals that God isn’t the God of the dead, but of the living (Matthew 22:31-32). Nevertheless, the Halloween tradition has been perpetuated to this day and further popularized through commercialization. (rest of the story) Link:
Report Post »http://www.thetrumpet.com/?q=8776.7
encinom
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:04pmOkie from Muskogee
Report Post »Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:39pm
Celts began this practice over 2000 years ago…It was the eve of their festival of Samhain. Samhain was the end of the old year and beginning of new year. The day was used to give thanks to Baal (Pagan God) and the eve is when evil spirits were the most powerful.
_______________________________________________
Really, dude, at least get your facts straight, Baal has nothing to do with the gods that the Celts or Druds worshipped. The more you and others comment the more evidence that fundie christians are nothing more than paranoid conspiracy theorists who spending more time worryng about satanand where he is, than caring about Christ’s message.
Darren
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:10pmJust stopping by to see if Joe posted anything meaningful.
“what do you care, since you don’t believe in the trinity, you’re not a christian anyway.”
Nope, guess not. I’ll come back later.
Report Post »motonutt
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:14pmYes….but with limitations…..The rules for my kids when they were young were,
Report Post »Nothing evil, no cross gender….other than that they could pick what they wanted.
AOL_REFUGEE
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:16pmSome people just take themselves WAY too seriously.
Report Post »godlovinmom
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:16pmI tell you what…its good to see so many that don’t participate in this holiday..and for ones that think its okay to be christian and celebrate this day…hey Christian…what would Jesus do…you know the God you guys supposeably follow?
Report Post »godlovinmom
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:20pmAlso…Glen…for someone that loves to spread the truth…whats up with your halloween stage.
Report Post »IntransigentMind
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:22pmI can understand how some committed Christians feel. It’s a bit like how some Christians like to point out that the Sabbath is Saturday, and not Sunday. It’s a bit like how some Christians point out that Christmas is (in their view) a pagan celebration too, with the Christmas trees, etc. You can have all of these arguments, but people will believe what they want.
Report Post »statesrights
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:32pmCould always dress up like Moses or Aaron or John the Baptist
Report Post »AzDebi
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:43pmI wonder when Glenn is going to report about “Chrislam” in America? This happened back in June…
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=5441
Report Post »JESUS-IS-LORD
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:44pmWhen you celebrate this ridiculous human tradition, you are basically saying to God “I don‘t trust you and I don’t believe you. You are a liar and I can do whatever i want!” The sin is rebellion. And you know you can’t play the Holy Father like that. No where in the Bible does it say to dress up in costumes and go get some meaningless treats.
Report Post »REALID 239823749828-HIF
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:58pm@SAGEINWAITING
The first several verses you quoted are from Mosaic Law and don’t apply to gentiles now, nor did they ever. I say it over and over again and people just don’t get it. Whatever, keep quoting, but I would suggest doing some research on the Pentateuch and Mosaic Law.
That being said, holidays are what you make of them. What you feel in your heart and what you’re glorifying in your mind is what matters. If you want to dress up, have some fun, and go out and collect candy, by all means, go ahead. If you set it up and a night of blasphemy and spell casting, and sessions around the old Ouija board, then that’s an issue.
Basically, get over it. I’m a non-denominational Christian, and I say it’s fun for kids to dress up and run around the neighborhood saying “trick or treat”. It’s fun for adults to see all the costumes and interact with the kids. That’s all Halloween is these days. There’s nothing inherently good or evil about any given day, nor is there anything evil about setting aside a day to have some fun.
Report Post »REALID 239823749828-HIF
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:04pm@JESUS-IS-LORD
Right, that makes about as much sense as my brother refusing to let his daughter watch Harry Potter because it has “witchcraft” in it; which is to say of course, none.
Report Post »jzs
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:07pmLet’s get rid of ground hog day. And what about those bunnies at Easter?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:09pm“joe1234,
You are a very funny guy. You don’t know much, but you are amusing none-the-less.
”
really? you think non-trinitarians are christian? LOL here’s what the lutheran church MO synod says…
We hold that all teachers and communions that deny the doctrine of the
Holy Trinity are outside the pale of the Christian Church
http://www.lcms.org/page.aspx?pid=415
“@Joe
Enjoy your live animal sacrifice to Satan your dad tonight. You speak just like him.
”
oh I plan to, I’m sacrificing a chicken for my dinner….LOL
on topic: Halloween is harmless….
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:11pm@encicom…
“Really, dude, at least get your facts straight, Baal has nothing to do with the gods that the Celts or Druds worshipped. The more you and others comment the more evidence that fundie christians are nothing more than paranoid conspiracy theorists”
he’s not a christian…..I’m beginning to think he has developmental difficulties….
Report Post »motonutt
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:15pm@OKIE…..Knows a lot about everything, if you don’t believe it just ask him.
Wasn’t it the Phaisees that were constantly pointing their fingers at Jesus and calling Him a pagan?
Report Post »Maybe not in those exact words but the intent was the same.
You like to cast a lot of stones. You sound a bit on the Pharisitical side more often than not.
Just because some christian families send their kids out to have some fun and collect some candy does not mean they are pagans, and does not mean they are worshiping halloween or satan.
There is a lot of churches now day’s that put on good clean fun on halloween, and have you ever thought that a few of those kids come to those churches on halloween and are exposed to the message of Jesus where they are not recieving it at home. Do you think Jesus would deny that child because he or she came to a halloween party at a church? Don’t put God in a box and…..
Get over yourself.
joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:21pm“@OKIE…..Knows a lot about everything, if you don’t believe it just ask him.”
LOL
Report Post »Juniemoon
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:25pmI agree with you Sage, it’s not a day to celebrate and it is certainly not an event to take into the churches. Never could wrap my head around that one.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:27pm@Mottonut
Ok
Enjoy your Pagan festival.
Report Post »DTOM_Jericho (Creator vindicator)
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:32pm“I do not associate myself with ghosts, demons, Satan and witches.”
If you are a christian, yes, you do. Somebody said on here that halloween has christian origins and xmas had pagan origins. Not sure if you were being purposely redundant but christianity IS paganism.
Trying to “change” pagan worship into something to glorify YHVH(“god”) has always been forbidden. There really is NO QUESTION.
Deuteronomy 12:30-32(please read in full context)
30take care that you be not ensnared to follow them, after they have been destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire about their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods?—that I also may do the same.’ 31You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.
32 “Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall not add to it or take from it.
Report Post »azulag
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:46pmAmen! Amen! Amen!
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:47pmJoe1234 – We hold that all teachers and communions that deny the doctrine of the
Holy Trinity are outside the pale of the Christian Church.
The central doctrine of Christendom is the trinity. According to the Athanasian Creed, there are three divine Persons (the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each said to be almighty, none greater or less than another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God.
If this is the case, can you show where the scriptures say this?
What the Lutheran church says is irrelevant if the scriptures do not back it up.
We know the scriptures speak of the Father, with his Name Jehovah. Also God’s Son has a name, Jesus, the Christ of God.
Report Post »Can you tell us where God’s Holy Spirit has a name, to indicate a third person? The Trinity is not a Bible teaching.
HappyStretchedThin
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:48pmAs Christians, we are to be in the world but not of the world. But at the same time we’re commanded to avoid even the appearance of evil. Is there room for ANY kind of dress-up day, then? If neutral observer from the outside didn’t know the origin of Halloween (and judging by the posts here, most don’t, and those who claim to contradict each other), and saw one for the first time s/he would see the following: people getting together, dressing up, having fun, some going overboard, pulling pranks, giving free delicious gifts to children, enjoying each other’s company, donating time to interaction with their community, and a lot of other good, healthy, and non-Biblically forbidden practices. Is any of that behavior inappropriate for a church?
Report Post »Personally, I try to stay as far away from the moral line as possible. On Halloween, my kids and I stay away from the spooky aspects, and celebrate the changing seasons instead, mostly. but I’ll admit, I flirt with the line on this one.
The big question to me is: Is it Pagan if you don’t believe any part of what Pagans believe? You gotta admit, there‘s not a lot of Christian halloweeners actually BEHAVING as if they’re believe in a god other than Christ.
Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:50pm@Encinom
Yes the festival of Samhain was to give thanks to Baal the Sun God for all this god provided. It’s truth like it or not whether your church practices it or not. This festival was to the sun god…
FYI
Israel was struck with plagues for partaking in the feast of the dead to Baal….
“Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods. And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor.” (Numbers 25:1-3.)
They joined themselves also unto Baal–peor, and ate the sacrifices of the dead. (Psalm 106:28 KJV)
Enjoy your pagan festival to the false sun god.
Report Post »SlimnRanger
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 7:01pmFolks can do what they want to but as for me and my house we do not celebrate Halloween,A former Church i attended would have games ,treats for the kids and prayer on that night and i was ok with that.
Report Post »Merovingia
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 7:05pmI don’t care for the pagan roots of the holiday, nor do I care for the pagan roots of Christmas. However, I don‘t feel that I’m celebrating those roots. Besides, I turn an unedifying holiday into an edifying holiday. Along with candy, I hand out Gospels of John. No strings attached, just a book that someone can read if they care to. John’s Gospel is the only book of the Bible directed to the unbeliever: “And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you [the unbeliever] may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you [the unbeliever] may have life in His name. (John 20:30-31) And God’s word has the guarantee of Isaiah 55:11: “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, And do not return there, But water the earth, And make it bring forth and bud, That it may give seed to the sower And bread to the eater, So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.”
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 7:07pm“We hold that all teachers and communions that deny the doctrine of the
Holy Trinity are outside the pale of the Christian Church”
But I thought Martin Luther never claimed to be a prophet.
What about Christians who though t ancient Isreal had a second God?
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 7:10pmI’m off to take the kids trick-or-treating. They’re excited.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 7:11pm“We know the scriptures speak of the Father, with his Name Jehovah. Also God’s Son has a name, Jesus, the Christ of God.
Can you tell us where God’s Holy Spirit has a name, to indicate a third person? The Trinity is not a Bible teaching.”
really so what little cult do you belong to? Christianity from the orthodox to the catholic, to the protestant, all agree on the trinity. here’s a link, there are far too many scriptures to list…
http://carm.org/trinity
the bottom line is the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy spirit is God…and there is ONE God
Report Post »SSG Tal
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 7:11pmI guess Christmas is out then.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 7:14pm“But I thought Martin Luther never claimed to be a prophet. ”
yeah he wasn’t a false prophet…but he knew what it meant to be a christian…notice he agreed with the catholic church on the doctrine of the trinity.
“What about Christians who though t ancient Isreal had a second God?
”
uh they’re not christian…there is ONE GOD…again there are too many verses to list but deuteronomy 6:4 hear O Israel, the Lord our God the Lord is ONE…
how hard is this? smith was a false prophet and a liar…I can‘t believe you’re SO gullible to fall for his lies.
Report Post »motonutt
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 7:19pm@OKIE….It‘s not MY pagan festival and I don’t celebrate it. I do not participate in it anymore now that my kids are grown. My wife and I do not decorate for it, we do not encourage it. We do have some candy handy in case some neihbor kids come over. But I am also not running my mouth calling everyone who does a pagan. When I was an immature chrisitan I used to cast a lot of stones,
Report Post »over the years I have learned better. If you want to come right down to it your computer is most likely a pagan device full of graven images, and all kinds of pagan evilness…..do you not use a computer?
Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 7:33pm@Mottonut
Ok
Enjoy your night.
Report Post »ChiefGeorge
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 7:39pmIn a world increasingly becoming more and more demonic all YEAR AROUND, I cannot support it even as a playful little thing aimed mostly at children. Satan starts em young, so do many totalitarian regimes in history. We should not glorifiy the things of the Satanic realm. Ghosts, ghouls, zombies, witches, warlocks, blood and gore, death figures, bones, gravestones in our yards is what I see on my street….at two homes side by side!! I see skulls and crossbones on cars all year long and now on kids back packs and shoes. We have fallen in love with the things of darkness in this country and you say its OK for Christians to go along with it. This Hallow weird I am not passing out anything and my lights will be off. Of course that means not jacko lanterns and the like. I am making a statement and I am sure I’ll be dubbed as the weird narrow minded one. The rest of you can do as you like, I am not saying to my neighbors that they cannot do this. I choose not to for my own reasons. You can respect that if you wish, I don’t care either way because I certainly do not respect someone who carries the torch for Satan and darkness even if they do not believe he exists. If the forces of darkness are all in our minds we sure have a funny way of making in a reality before our very eyes.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 7:45pmTo FRUIT LOOP JOE
Trinity is false and the teaching of a cult….
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
1 John 5:7
“So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.”
Romans 12:5
Are we all one person? NOPE!
“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen…”
2 Corinthians 13:14
Genesis 3:22, “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil:”
Genesis 11:7, “Go to, let *us* go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”
Matthew 3:16-17, “And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
3 not one.
You want verses over Paganism and what Pagansim is, it’s next.
Report Post »so3
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 7:50pmHalloween celebrates nothing if you asked the kids running about with masks on carrying plastic pumpkins…
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 7:59pm@OPIE…hey gomer, your own verses PROVE the trinity…LOL
Trinity is false and the teaching of a cult….
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
1 John 5:7
what about these three are ONE…do you not understand???
““So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.”
Romans 12:5
Are we all one person? NOPE!
”
uh thats not what that says….all real christians are members of the body of Christ…
“Genesis 3:22, “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil:”
yeah the plurality of the trinity…3 persons ONE GOD…
“3 not one.
You want verses over Paganism and what Pagansim is, it’s next.
”
you’ve just proven yourself a polytheist and a pagan. there are not 3 gods in Christianity, ONE GOD, 3 persons…the trinity.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 8:05pm“To FRUIT LOOP JOE”
oh yeah you go from one post excoriating me about calling you names and being unchristian…to the next post where you’re calling me names and spitting hatred and threats and violence….
you really need professional help.
“Trinity is false and the teaching of a cult….”
yeah the cult of Christianity….the orthodox, protestants and catholics all agree on the trinity…and what little cult do you belong to? hmmmmm??
Report Post »jopmur
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 8:14pmI agree, where do my comments go?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 8:14pmoops wrong thread…
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 8:18pmPagan Joe
You showed you worship ONE god with 3 heads like Pagans…Like the Greeks and Romans……
Tell us Joe how is god on earth and in Heaven at the same time if they are one God?
How does the Father know when the end is and Jesus not if they are the same Pagan Joe?
Pagan Joe we don’t have the same body with 7 billion heads.
“So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.”
Romans 12:5
“For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh…” Matthew 9:5-6
Are you and your Husband Pagan Joe one flesh with one body and two heads?
You are so full of crap it hurts me. If you want to worship one God like Pagans, Muslims and Satanists, ok. But do not come and tell me Jesus Christ is not my savior and that I do not follow Him. You show you know nothing of Jesus Christ. Nothing……
Report Post »vtxphantom
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 8:21pmI was brought up Catholic. Every year I would look forward to haloween till the age of 11. Would gather with my friends on the 31st of Oct. and do tricks or treats. Nothing was evil, nothing was sacrilegious. It was just plain good fun. We had a good time in costumes collecting our loot of candy. Don’t be so PC in the christian world.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 8:30pm“You showed you worship ONE god with 3 heads like Pagans…Like the Greeks and Romans……”
oh yeah billions of christians over 2000 years have all been wrong…until most holy opie comes along and reveals the truth…LOL
Tell us Joe how is god on earth and in Heaven at the same time if they are one God?
One God, 3 persons…how hard is this? oh I forgot who I’m talking to…
How does the Father know when the end is and Jesus not if they are the same Pagan Joe?
because Jesus took human for and limited Himself pagan opie….duhhhhhh
“You are so full of crap it hurts me. If you want to worship one God like Pagans, Muslims and Satanists, ok. But do not come and tell me Jesus Christ is not my savior and that I do not follow Him. You show you know nothing of Jesus Christ. Nothing……”
you don’t you pagan piece of trash. what hellish little cult do you belong to? you’re not a christian you pagan dog. christians are trinitarian…
your questions are childish, and easily answered, anyone with a single brain cell could find the answers your moronic questions….pathetic.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 8:34pm“Pagan Joe we don’t have the same body with 7 billion heads.
“So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.”
Romans 12:5
”
this is just amazing stupidity….wow stop calling yourself a christian, its a lie, and you’re an embarrassment to the Name.
why don’t you have the guts to tell us what hellish little cult you belong to?
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 8:36pmIf you celebrate Halloween in a secular way it shouldn’t be a problem. I say secular because other than the pagans and satan worshipers I don’t know who or how one could celebrate it in a religious fashion. I mean the same ones who have an objection to Halloween probably put up christmas trees and hunt for easter eggs. As a Christian, celebrating these holidays in a secular fashion and as a time to be around family doesn’t constitute a problem. It’s a problem when we try to use these days as religious holidays. There‘s only one day that we are to revere above all others and that’s the First day of the week, the Lord’s day, when we remember the Lord’s sacrifice.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 8:57pmJoe
You do not even know when your own Pagan Faith began practicing ONE God…Hahahahahahaha that is hilarious….What is even funnier is hearing you try to explain your own belief….Hahahahha it is ridiculous and pathetic!
I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I believe God the Father (Supreme), His Son (Supreme Authority), and Holy Spirit (Divine)….They are not ONE like Satan has taught the World, they are 3 distinct beings that each have different characteristics and functions. One cannot do the others. I use the Bible to interpret the Bible.
Practice your Pagan belief. I will continue to follow Jesus Christ.
I will now post a list of Baal worship compared to your Pagan faith worship. We will discover whom the Whore of a babylon is tonight.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:06pm“You do not even know when your own Pagan Faith began practicing ONE God…”
since the beginning of Christianity…
Mark 12:29
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
THE LORD IS ONE…how hard is this?? amazing stupidity…
again what hellish little cult do you belong to? no surprise you don’t have the guts to answer that…you’re a coward.
“I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I believe God the Father (Supreme), His Son (Supreme Authority), and Holy Spirit (Divine)….They are not ONE like Satan has taught the World, they are 3 distinct beings that each have different characteristics and functions. One cannot do the others. I use the Bible to interpret the Bible. ”
no you’re not…your false gods do not exist. there is only ONE GOD, in 3 persons.
you’re calling Jesus a liar…what a delusional nut-job you are.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:08pm“Hahahahha it is ridiculous and pathetic! ”
oh yeah imitation is the sincerest form of flattery….you’re too stupid to even come up with your own lines…LOL loser.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:18pmAnother stupid and pointless story by the Blaze inviting Christians to attack one another over a holiday that has been celebrated in various forms by Christians for centuries.
Yeah, this helps us so very much.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:24pm“yeah he wasn’t a false prophet…” – Neither was Joseph Smith. If Martin Luther never claimed to be a prophet, who cares what the Missouri Synod says about non-trinitarian beliefs? My uncle’s a practicing pastor in the Lutheran faith, he’s never spoken to me this way. Besides, does the Missouri Synod think that Evangelical Lutherans are within the pale fo the Christian Church? They’re trinitarians?
“but he knew what it meant to be a christian…” – Martin Luther no doubt followed the Holy Spirit in reforming the Christian church. Much of what he stood for I comletely agree with. Condemning indulgences and announcing the Bible to be read individually were absolutely true and according to God’s will. Despite his weaknesses, I think he was a great man. I do not agree with him on eveything. I do not agree that faith alone saves, nor should Christians burn down synagogues. Neither one is Christian.
“notice he agreed with the catholic church on the doctrine of the trinity.” – Yes, he did. He even had no desire to separate from the Catholic Church but to reform it from within.
“the Lord our God the Lord is ONE…” I completely agree. So, what about Christians who believed that ancient Isreal had a second God? Were they beyond the pale of the Christian church?
Report Post »Old Truckers
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:26pmJoe1234,
Joe, what is wrong with you? I was reading posts from good people expressing their thoughts on Halloween and then you come in, insulting everyone. You are a destroyer of decent conversations. I would suggest you try to apply to yourself the “mind of Christ” instead of a argumentative fool.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:38pmI told you my faith. I am a believer and follower of Jesus Christ. I believe in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 10:21, “Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils.”
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, “And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Joe we have nothing further to discuss.
Look at DTOM’s posts and you will learn plenty. Goodbye Joe. I am taking Florida’s advice of Jesus and not going to cast pearls to swine.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:40pm“yeah he wasn’t a false prophet…” – Neither was Joseph Smith”
yeah he was…
and it was the will of God that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh–even fifty-six years should wind up the scene.” (History of the Church, vol. 2, p. 189). See context. i.Jesus did not return within fifty-six years when 1891 arrived
just like his false prophecy about building the temple in MO..
Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed.” (Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5,31.)
a LIE.
just like his lie about the civil war..
and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations,” (Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3).
Report Post »FALSE PROPHET.
joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:42pm““the Lord our God the Lord is ONE…” I completely agree.”
no you don’t……
http://lds.org/scriptures/bd/god?lang=eng&letter=g
lets review the mormon god vs. the christian God.
“We learn from the revelations that have been given that there are three separate persons in the Godhead:”
there is ONE GOD…Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
“latter-day revelation we learn that the Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bone”
Jesus has a physical body, now since HE took on a human nature, but the father does not…
John 4: 24 “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
“, Elohim. All mankind are his children”
we are not his literal children…we have been adopted…
Romans 8:15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”
“Jesus works under the direction of the Father and is in complete harmony with him. All mankind are his brethren and sisters, he being the eldest of the spirit children of Elohim”
Jesus is not created…rather eternal.
revelation 1: 17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:45pm“Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:38pm
I told you my faith. I am a believer and follower of Jesus Christ. I believe in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
your jesus is not the Jesus of the bible…He is not a god, He IS God…none before none after…Isaiah 43:10
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, “And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
yeah you sure do believe a lie….I bet you’re a JW…
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:47pm“Joe, what is wrong with you? I was reading posts from good people expressing their thoughts on Halloween and then you come in, insulting everyone. You are a destroyer of decent conversations. I would suggest you try to apply to yourself the “mind of Christ” instead of a argumentative fool.”
nice lie…I only insulted one person who insulted me…and of course you’re not upset at the one insulting me….I would suggest you take the log out of your own eye before you take the spec out of others.
oh let me guess you don’t believe in the trinity either…
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:49pm@oldtruckers…
oh yeah darren insulted me too..and I didn’t insult him back..
“Just stopping by to see if Joe posted anything meaningful.
“what do you care, since you don’t believe in the trinity, you’re not a christian anyway.”
Nope, guess not. I’ll come back later.
”
so who else did I insult, lets see you back up your lie, or apologize, I’m sure you will…LOL
Report Post »sooner12
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:53pmThose of you who are against this day…….get a life. These kids only know that they’re getting dressed up into costumes and getting candy.
Report Post »TrailBlazer66
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:55pmAmen to that! Besides who needs more evil anything in the world. Glenn was right, current events are scarier.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:55pm“I do not agree that faith alone saves, nor should Christians burn down synagogues. Neither one is Christian.”
you’re not a christian, so how would you know? I guess Paul was mistaken huh??
ephesians 2:
Report Post »8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Darren
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:56pmJoe;
Here’s a cross reference to D&C 84:4 – “49 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of their offerings. 50 And the iniquity and transgression of my holy laws and commandments I will visit upon the heads of those who hindered my work, unto the third and fourth generation, so long as they repent not, and hate me, saith the Lord God.” (D&C 124). Like wise here’s an ancient prophecy: ” 4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.” (Jonah 3). and what happened? The people repented and God spared Ninevah. Note that there were no conditions in the prophecy that ninevah would be destroyed in fourty days. In fact, here‘s how the Lord’s prophet reacted: ” 1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.” (Jonah 4). This isn’t the only instance where a prophecy was made and the results differed. There are variables in God‘s phophecies and they are according to God’s will.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 10:05pmExcerpts from a Dialogue with Typho:
Chapter 56. God who appeared to Moses is distinguished from God the Father
- “Justin: I shall attempt to persuade you, since you have understood the Scriptures, [of the truth] of what I say, that there is, and that there is said to be, another God and Lord subject to the Maker of all things; who is also called an Angel, because He announces to men whatsoever the Maker of all things—above whom there is no other God—wishes to announce to them.”
- “Justin: Reverting to the Scriptures, I shall endeavour to persuade you, that He who is said to have appeared to Abraham, and to Jacob, and to Moses, and who is called God, is distinct from Him who made all things—numerically, I mean, not [distinct] in will. For I affirm that He has never at any time done anything which He who made the world—above whom there is no other God—has not wished Him both to do and to engage Himself with.”
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01285.htm
You may not want to read all this, Joe, because, you know, it’s a lot of reading to do. But would folks in Missouri consider Justin Martyr beyond the pale of the Christian church? If so, then, silly Missourians.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 10:11pmNow that Joe’s been cleaning house of all non-trinitarians, let me say that I took the kids out for trick-or-treating and we had a blast. My two daughters dressed as Starfire and Phantom of the Opera. My two sons dressed as a character from Minecraft. The wife dressed as a witch with fun little “boo” strings attached to her hat and I went as the father/husband semi worn out from work. My costume and character were quite convincing. ;>)
Now we have three weeks to keep up all the Pagan house decorations for the fall and then we’ll put up the Pagan house decorations for Christmas. We love this time of the year. it’s great to focus n family and the birth of our lord and Savior Jesus Christ during a dedicated time of the year to do just that. Of course, there’s no reason NOT to during the rest of the year; but dedicating time to family and God is very good.
Report Post »henryclay
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 10:25pmDarren and joe are circle jerks who feed off each others negativity. would not surprise me if they are the person trying to prove each other right. what a psycho. if u ever saw joes comments you no hes the spawn of satan. Idiots. joe darren go to hell and leave these people alone you jerkoffs. you grossly scare people away from god and i hope he strikes you heretics down. joe is a homosexual
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 10:26pm“nice lie…I only insulted one person who insulted me…”
@ 3:22 PM – [QUOTE] “No Halloween does not have its roots in Christianity”
what do you care, since you don’t believe in the trinity, you’re not a christian anyway. [END QUOTE]
That was very insulting and not at all provocted by Okie.
“nice lie…I only insulted one person who insulted me…and of course you’re not upset at the one insulting me….I would suggest you take the log out of your own eye before you take the spec out of others.”
You say you’re Christian and yet you live by and adamantly defend the motto, “do unto others as they’ve done unto me.” MmmmmmmmKay. Good luck with that.
As for my insult, yes, it was insulting based upon the fact that your post to Okie was meaningless. You made it without any provocation other than his personal faith. Are you trying to say that attacking someone else based soley on their personal faith is meaningful? When called out you frequently point out “he did it first” like a machine gun with unlimited ammo. What was it I said before? Oh, “infantile disorder”. You do not find your mannerism childish?
Report Post »Darren
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 10:32pmhenry;
“Darren and joe are circle jerks who feed off each others negativity. ”
Heh. No worries, I’m doe with him tonight.
“joe darren go to hell and leave these people alone you jerkoffs.”
Like I said, I’m done with him tonight. For future reference though, watch your tongue. But you do make a valid point in that contention does scare people off. I would admit that I should restrain myself a bit more. Not to allow certain accusations go unanswered but no need to contend.
“joe is a homosexual ”
Totally not cool. Take your trolling someplace else.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 10:57pmJoe 1234: God gave us commands to follow. Ephesians tells us that you can’t work your way to heaven, but you must do works of obedience if you want to be saved. Let’s put it this way, God told Noah how to make the ark and He also specified what type of wood. Noah couldn’t use just any wood or alter the plans God gave him, it was by obedience to God that he and his family was saved. In the New Testament we are told specifically what we must do to be saved and simply having faith and believing isn’t enough (for demons believed and trembled and in some cases even confessed Jesus was the Son of God but they weren’t saved). In fact James 2:24 says, “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.“ The only time you see ”faith only“ is with the word ”not.” So what else are we commanded to do? We must hear the word (Rom 10:17) We must believe (John 3:16) We must repent (Luke 13:3) We must confess Jesus is the Son of God (Matt. 10:32-33) and then finally be baptized *for* the remission of sins (Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, Rom. 6:3-4, 1 Peter 3:21). These are commands God gave us to follow that we might be saved. If we do not follow His commands we are disobedient and will not be saved.
Report Post »AOL_REFUGEE
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 11:01pmAll you ersatz theologians with your fractured versions of religion make me sick. Halloween is a kid’s game, for God’s sake (pun possibly intended). So, get a grip, already. Sheesh. If you can’t keep that in perspective, you’re a real loser.
Report Post »SgtB
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 11:07pmDoes the Torah consider receiving a life-saving blood trasfusion as the consumption of blood and a sin?
Also, the Christian holiday of Easter has more outright symbolism of Pagan rituals than Halloween does. The easter egg and bunny are directly from the pagan spring festival and they are omens of virilty and fertility. I’m sure the basket also symbolizes somthing, but I’m not going to waste my time looking it up. In today’s world, Halloween is used as a tool to socialize our children and introduce them to dealing with strangers, even scary ones, in a fun way. Any kid who can go up to a guy with a chainsaw and demand candy can do anything. If you choose to not partake in this now secular holiday, then so be it. But don‘t be a spoil sport and preach to us about how we’re “evil”.
I just noticed you called yourself sage in waiting. You‘re gonna be waiting awhile before anyone calls you sage if you keep giving out the advice you’ve been giving.
Report Post »Grey Eagle
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 11:11pmChurches used to have Halloween parties. Kids dressed up, played planned games, and had refreshments in a safe environment. Kids mostly regard this as dress up, get treats, and don’t consider the undercurrents of the holiday itself. Parties are usually costume parties and basically harmless. Parents should make the choice. If Churches want to have a harvest party to keep the kids off the streets, that is fine too. Each family needs to make their own choice.
Report Post »sooner12
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 11:29pmYou people need to get a life. Kids that trick or treat and their parents don’t even think about it as a pagan day. All they know is that they are going to get some candy. That’s all. You guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Again you naysayers get a life.
Report Post »Goulet
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 2:59am2Ki 21:2 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
Report Post »WeDontNeedNoSteenkinBadges03
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:22am“Should Christians Participate in Halloween Celebrations?”
The fact that this question is even a question (let alone how it would be answered) does not bode well for America:
“You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations, either any of your own nation or any stranger who dwells among you (for all these abominations the men of the land have done, who were before you, and thus the land is defiled), lest the land vomit you out also when you defile it, as it vomited out the nations that were before you.”
Report Post »-Leviticus 18:26-28
WeDontNeedNoSteenkinBadges03
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:31am@encinom – “nothing like letting a book of myths get un the way of having fun. More candy for me.”
Better read the ingredients of that candy before you blindly eat it … it’s just as poisonous as your blindly “having fun” with pagan holidays as “Halloween”. ;)
Report Post »aarontbarksdale
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 6:21amWe need to also realize that early Christians adopted pagan rituals in order to convert the pagans without forcing the pagans to completely give up their celebrations, Halloween is Samhain from the Celts; others are Easter (celebration of the Vernal Equinox that pagan celebrated as a rebirth and fertility – chocolate is an aphrodisiac, eggs for new life, rabbits for their fertility), Christmas (celebrated around the time the pagans celebrated the Winter Solstice…because shepherds would not have watched their flocks by night in December in Israel…because it’s colder in desert regions at night than temperate zones.) EVEN SUNDAY was a pagan sun worshiper adoption because pagans didn’t want to go to worship on Saturday…AND Sunday…even the NAME indicates the worship should be about the SUN…not the SON.
I’m not AGAINST these holidays, just know where they came from and decide for yourself. Dressing up during Samhain for the celts was a way to, as they believed, scare off evil spirits. While dressing up as witches, demons, etc, is a way to keep your kids away from the demonic sides of Halloween, it originally was used to scare off evil spirits…so the uglier the better.
I didn’t shower or shave for a week, wore tattered clothes…and went as an OWS Protester.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 9:07am“You say you’re Christian and yet you live by and adamantly defend the motto, “do unto others as they’ve done unto me.” MmmmmmmmKay. Good luck with that.”
uhhhhhh I didn’t do unto as you did unto me……get a clue mmmmmmmKay?
“As for my insult, yes, it was insulting based upon the fact that your post to Okie was meaningless. You made it without any provocation other than his personal faith.”
uh yeah old okie there has threatened me…told me he was going to fly to whereever I lived at and confront me…..of course he soon modified that to telling me I should come to his farm…he’s a psycho.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 9:10am@scarebare..
“and then finally be baptized *for* the remission of sins (Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, Rom. 6:3-4, 1 Peter 3:21). These are commands God gave us to follow that we might be saved. If we do not follow His commands we are disobedient and will not be saved.”
what about the thief on the cross? he was never baptized….paul said he wasn’t sent to baptize…
1 corinthians 1:
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
so if baptism is SO important, why wasn’t paul sent to baptize??
you just have to inject your pride into your salvation…you have to do SOMETHING to show that you’re good enough to God……you should repent.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 9:13am“You may not want to read all this, Joe, because, you know, it’s a lot of reading to do. But would folks in Missouri consider Justin Martyr beyond the pale of the Christian church? If so, then, silly Missourians”
oh boy back to justin martyr…..sigh….how about this….
Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
“We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation… [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).
Report Post »Giveitrevolution
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 10:45amIts a pagan holliday so I say no!
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 11:38amoh and darren, since you’re going to quote the catholics on justin martyr you may want to look at this…
The Holy Ghost occupies the third place in the Trinity (I Apol., vi). He inspired the prophets (I Apol., vi;xxxi; Dialogue with Trypho 7). He gave seven gifts to Christ and descended upon Him (Dialogue with Trypho 87-88). For the real distinction between the Son and the Spirit see Teder, op. cit., 119-23. Justin insists constantly on the virgin birth (I
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08580c.htm
thats the page on justin martry from the catholic encyclopedia…so they consider justin a trinitarian….sorry….
Report Post »Who would Jesus bomb?
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 11:55amYes and Christians can also listen to heavy metal music. The important thing is to know when to take something seriously and when not to. Halloween is fun, nothing more. If you take it too far, then it becomes a problem. Just like kids who listen to heavy metal. They are not listening to it and then going out and killing people. Insane people can be set off by any number of stimuli, like making eye contact. Take away Halloween, take away heavy metal, take away violent movies, you’re still gonna have just as many nut bars running around committing violent crimes.
Report Post »REBELWITHACAUSE
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 1:56pmhttp://www.thetrumpet.com/?q=8776.7529.0.0
Hope you will read!!!
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 2:14pmJoe;
“uhhhhhh I didn’t do unto as you did unto me……”
Nobody said you did..
“get a clue mmmmmmmKay? ”
You just did to me what you previously said you never did to me. When you originially said you never did this to me you were correct though you cannot show anywhere in my posts in this thread where I said you did to me what I did to you but immediately after saying you never did to me what I did to you you did to me what I did to you. Good job, Joe. (I’ll anxiously await your saying, “good job, Darren”)
“uh yeah old okie there has threatened me…told me he was going to fly to whereever I lived at and confront me…..of course he soon modified that to telling me I should come to his farm…he’s a psycho.”
I do not see any such posts by Okie here, do you? And if he said such things in the past, and I do not deny that he did, then, first, this is exactly what I was talking about. You do unto Okie as he did unto you. Second, we’ll add “I will not turn the other cheek” to your personal creedal repertoire. For someone who teaches that wors come naturally through faith I don’t see much works from you. Not much in the way of forgiveness and doing unto Okie as you would have Okie do unto you.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 2:31pm“I do not see any such posts by Okie here, do you? And if he said such things in the past, and I do not deny that he did, then, first, this is exactly what I was talking about. You do unto Okie as he did unto you. Second, we’ll add “I will not turn the other cheek” to your personal creedal repertoire. For someone who teaches that wors come naturally through faith I don’t see much works from you. Not much in the way of forgiveness and doing unto Okie as you would have Okie do unto you.”
haven’t you assumed your godhood a little early to be able to judge me?
haven’t seen much love from the mormons towards me…no turning the cheek, usually every time the mormons start hurling insults at me first…..hypocrisy much?
gald to see you’ve already deposed Jesus……
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 3:17pmThere’s no doubt that there were those among the early Christians that believed in a trinity. I believe in a trinity. “Trinity” in the lowercase means a group of three – “4.(lowercase) a group of three; triad.
5.(lowercase) the state of being threefold or triple.” That’s it. What you’re arguing is about the Holy trinity which holds a specific historical meaning in Christianity. My point in brining out Martyr and others is that they did not. Were they not Christians? Did they not believe in the God of the Bible?
You say that Catholics consider him to be a trinitarian. First off, why? Because the Encyclopedia cites Martyr as declaring the Holy Ghost as “occupying the third place in the Trinity”? That’s not a direct quote from Martyr. That’s, as you said, what Catholics say of him. The work they cited is “I Apol., vi” which I have not read, nor can I find online. They used the capital “T” to identify Martyr when the Holy Trinity came about two hundred years after Martyr.
My question is how do you, Joe, consider Martyr a trinitarian when he taught a “God disctinct from God the Father”. In that this “second god” was under the superior God (the maker of the universe) carrying out that superior God’s will?
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 3:25pm@ Joe1234: That‘s an assumption you can’t make. You don’t know if the thief was or was not baptized, he clearly could have been baptized by John. But that is something we don’t know because scripture does not tell us. Second of all the thief died under the Old Law. The New law didn’t come into effect until all things were fulfilled. And thirdly, while Christ was here on this earth He had the power to forgive sins (Mark 2:10). Since He is not here on this earth we have to obey the commands given and Christ said that whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved (Mark 16:16) and He also told His disciples in Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…. If baptism is not required why did Jesus tell them to do this? Why give them a command they can’t do? As for Paul read why he doesn’t baptize starting with verse 11. There were contentions, and Paul didn’t baptize anyone “lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.“ He was trying to stress that the one doing the baptizing is not important lest people say ”oh I was baptized by so n so, that makes me more important!” As for saying that I have to show I’m good enough, no that’s not the point of baptism, baptism is a command given by God that we should do. You’d say we need to believe to be saved, well believing is a command given by God that we are to do!
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 3:30pmJoe;
“haven’t you assumed your godhood a little early to be able to judge me? ” – I only jude what I see. I do not see you turning the other cheek. The only person I’ve seen apologize to you for wrong behavior, an appology which you graciously accepted, was by an Mormon. You, sir, have made inumerous judgements against me and my faith. You’ve called me a liar, a servant of Satan, the son of Satan, and that my faith will count as naught at the last day before God’s judgement seat. I’ve made absolutely no such judgements against you or anyone else. Not only on this site but in my life that I can recall. Now you’re accusing me of judging you?
“haven’t seen much love from the mormons towards me…no turning the cheek, usually every time the mormons start hurling insults at me first…..hypocrisy much? ” – This is what you do. You’re the victim. You’re oppressed and stepped upon by others. Even here when it was you who came in and judged another man for nothing more than his personal faith, disqualifying him to comment on the history of Christianity and Holloween merly because he does not believe inthe Holy Trinity, and yet, he started it. You always pull out the victim card and call others hypocrites when they call you out for any wrong behavior. Anyone who has launched offense at you is wrong. Even the Mormons. But the victim/hypocrite mentality is the mark of godless liberals. Hold yourself higher, sir.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 3:59pm“@ Joe1234: That‘s an assumption you can’t make. You don’t know if the thief was or was not baptized, he clearly could have been baptized by John”
wow thats really a reach….lets see ephesians didn’t say anything about baptism…and how about Abraham? the bible says ….
Galations 3:6
Consider Abraham: “He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
no baptism…
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
interesting that it does not say whoever does not believe and/or not baptized will be condemned….looks like the believes part is important, not the baptism…
baptism is a good thing, but its not required for salvation…..its a work, something you do…and by no works shall anyone be saved….sorry
hn 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.”
nothing about baptism….
Rom. 4:5, “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,”
hmmm no works, just faith….
good luck working your way to heaven….what cult do you belong to, for surely requiring baptism for salvation is not biblical, even the baptists dont’ do that.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 4:05pmYou, sir, have made inumerous judgements against me and my faith. You’ve called me a liar, a servant of Satan, the son of Satan, and that my faith will count as naught at the last day before God’s judgement seat. ”
yes and I have backed those things up…you’ve lied about smith not making false prophecies…and you’ve lied about what I said. and you saying you believe in One God, which mormons manifestly do not.
I didn’t say your faith will count as naught…but you faith in nothing….the mormon gods do not exist….your gods are not the God of the Bible…stop trying to twist what I say.
“I’ve made absolutely no such judgements against you or anyone else. Not only on this site but in my life that I can recall. Now you’re accusing me of judging you?”"
I’ve never judged your works, or your actions…you seem to think you can judge me…the arrogance of you would-be gods…..of course I’ve noticed that *my* posts are always up for criticism…but NEVER those who say vile things to me….as was the case in this thread with oldtruckers….
I’ve noticed a determined attempt to deflect from the issue to my behavior. I’m glad you mormons are so holier-than-thou….although I’ve noticed its not the case, and I am attacked visciously by mormons…but of course no one ever complains about that…hypocrisy much?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 4:09pm“This is what you do. You’re the victim. You’re oppressed and stepped upon by others. Even here when it was you who came in and judged another man for nothing more than his personal faith, disqualifying him to comment on the history of Christianity and Holloween merly because he does not believe inthe Holy Trinity, and yet, he started it. ”
uh he started it quite a while ago….but to the point, he’s mocked the trinity, as you saw in this thread…and considers those of use who do part of the whore of babylon. and what I said is true…and the MO synod lutheran church backs me up…as does the rest of christianity…if you don‘t believe inthe trinity you’re not a christian…..its one of the most important doctrines of the faith…because it deals with the nature of God.
“You always pull out the victim card and call others hypocrites when they call you out for any wrong behavior. Anyone who has launched offense at you is wrong. Even the Mormons. But the victim/hypocrite mentality is the mark of godless liberals. “”
oh I don’t mind being called names on a message board….don’t be shocked if I return the favor…but then you holier-than-thou hypocrites expect to call me all the names you want, and for me to just bend over and let you kick me again…then you criticize me for not being *christian* enough when I defend myself….cry me a river.
agan it always comes back to my behavior because you sure as hell can’t defend your positions.
Report Post »dr_funk
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 4:10pmPeople who refuse to celebrate Halloween are like people who forbid their kids from reading Harry Potter…
They’re retarded.
Report Post »dr_funk
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 4:14pmMeanwhile, while you morons are wringing your hands about kids dressing up as fictional characters, there is REAL evil at work in the world.
Halloween is about having fun and giving. Yes, giving. Its about the thrill of getting spooked or creeped out. It has absolutely nothing to do with evil.
Get over yourselves.
Report Post »dr_funk
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 4:26pm“These are the same people who suggest that eating at an Applebees is inappropriate because they have a bar and serve sinful alcohol.”
Yes, “religious do-gooders”…they birthed the progressive movement. Do-gooders of all kinds do far more harm than good when they resort to forms of fascism to accomplish their goals.
Anyone who believes the mere act of consuming alcohol constitutes a sin has obviously never read their Bible cover-to-cover. If drinking alcohol in itself were a sin, then Jesus would not have turned water into wine at a wedding reception.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 4:35pm@Darren
Thank you for being a defender for those who believe differently.
To clarify, I never threatened anyone but I did call the bluff of a threat to say something to Joes face. Joe became upset and said I wouldn’t say it to his face so I simply asked him to email me his address. I also gave Joe the town I live in if he ever desired to come talk with me on my farm. There is the context of that scenario. I do not believe Joe knows Jesus just from his words alone. If he does, I do not want to know the Jesus that speaks like Joe.
“trinity” is a semantics problem. My faith believes this semantics of trinity one is used to preach ONE god as to devalue Jesus as simply a prophet like Muslims say he was just a prophet. All apostate religions believe in one God: Current Jews, Muslims, Pagans, Muslims, and Satanists.
My faith believes in the Godhead, which is similar to “trinity one” but uses scripture to show 3 beings before the world was created and not just one being in Heaven. 3 beings, Father, Son, Holy Spirit all needed for faith. Just clarification.
Thank you once more for your defense of all to worship. I appreciate you much. .
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 4:56pm“To clarify, I never threatened anyone but I did call the bluff of a threat to say something to Joes face. Joe became upset and said I wouldn’t say it to his face so I simply asked him to email me his address. I also gave Joe the town I live in if he ever desired to come talk with me on my farm. ”
lets clarify…..you said some rather nasty things to me….hiding behind the internet like the cowardly punk you are….then I said we all know you’d never say it to my face…so you wouldn’t post your address….and you gave me your email address…when I sent you an email…you never responded….you were going to come to my city…but then you wanted me to come to your farm…so you could set an ambush up for me, like the weasel you are…oh no you remembered you couldn’t fly with a gun….so flying to my city wouldn’t allow you to ambush me….so you wanted me to come to your farm, although you never gave me your address….so you could shoot me nice and legally…
so why don’t you fly to my city, I meet you at the airport, and then we’ll see how tough you are?
““trinity” is a semantics problem. My faith believes this semantics of trinity one is used to preach ONE god as to devalue Jesus as simply a prophet like Muslims say he was just a prophet. All apostate religions believe in one God: Current Jews, Muslims, Pagans, Muslims, and Satanists. ”
what BS. all christians believe in ONE GOD.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:01pmJoe;
“CHAPTER VI — CHARGE OF ATHEISM REFUTED.
Hence are we called atheists. And we confess that we are atheists, so far as gods of this sort are concerned, but not with respect to the most true God, the Father of righteousness and temperance and the other virtues, who is free from all impurity. But both Him, and the Son (who came forth from Him and taught us these things, and the host of the other good angels who follow and are made like to Him), and the prophetic Spirit, we worship and adore, knowing them in reason and truth, and declaring without grudging to every one who wishes to learn, as we have been taught.”
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html
The First Apology looks like a work by Justin Martyr to defend Christianity against the charge of atheism. No mention of a Trinity in chaprter 6. He’s declaring he only true God/Gods. Martyr is declaring his worship; not the Holy Trinity.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:02pmoh and Okie, once you expressed a desire to meet me face to face, thats a threat…you were going to shut me up….don’t you remember? but just the desire to meet me is a threat.
you were just SO upset that I made you look SO stupid, but you do that to yourself with every post.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:18pmJoe;
“uh he started it quite a while ago….”
Exactly my point. You’re the victim. You’re playing the victim card right now. Okie did nothing on this string except say that Holloween does not have Christianity in its history. You then inserted yourself on this string saying, “what do you care, since you don’t believe in the trinity, you’re not a christian anyway”. That was a personal attack on his personal faith. And yet you’re still saying that your actions are his fault. How is this remotely true? He said and did nothing to you and yet you interjected an denounciation upon his faith reasonning that doing so would dshow some sort of disqualification in commenting on the topic of his choice. This is classic godless liberal mentality.
“to the point, he’s mocked the trinity, as you saw in this thread…”
I would not choose his tactics and do not support the manner which he replied to you but I suspect that he did so in a retaliation to your denounciation of his faith. Note that I’m not at all condoning what he did; nor blaming you. Okie made his choices as you made yours. Even that he’s mocked the Trinity (I‘ve no idea what he’s said in the past to you regarding it), so what? He now can’t comment on Christianity and Hollween? That does not even begin to make sense. Your response was pure emotion; not reason.
(con’t)
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:20pmJoe
“Say it to me face” was issued by you was what initiated the conversation and means what? A challenge, threat.
I said ok I will. Called your bluff. You then squirmed back from your threat. I then gave you my location if you desired to speak face to face and you declined. Have the integrity to admit the truth Joe.
You make no one look stupid but yourself. You scare people away from God with your vile and hateful comments “in the name of Jesus”. You did make me upset as I was laughing at your drama. You want to upset people and I do not see that as being like Christ.
Believe as you wish Joe, just learn to tell the truth. I ask you to please do not post to me, about me or with my words. We have nothing to discuss and need not interact. Please respect that. Thanks.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:33pm“The First Apology looks like a work by Justin Martyr to defend Christianity against the charge of atheism. No mention of a Trinity in chaprter 6. He’s declaring he only true God/Gods. Martyr is declaring his worship; not the Holy Trinity.”
no surprise you ignore what I posted to you..the catholic church considers him a trinitarian…whether you do or not doesn’t matter.
“You then inserted yourself on this string saying, “what do you care, since you don’t believe in the trinity, you’re not a christian anyway”. That was a personal attack on his personal faith. And yet you’re still saying that your actions are his fault. How is this remotely true?”
what BS…oh a ‘personal attack’ laughable…its a true statement, if you want to consider a true statement a ‘personal attack’ then thats your problem not mine. looks like the truth hurts.
“He said and did nothing to you and yet you interjected an denounciation upon his faith reasonning that doing so would dshow some sort of disqualification in commenting on the topic of his choice. This is classic godless liberal mentality.”
get a clue, it does show the hollowness of his attack upon halloween as being anti-christian, when he’s not a christian himself….you really need logic 101.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:34pm(con’t);
“if you don‘t believe inthe trinity you’re not a christian…..”
And I say that’s not necessarily true. There’s been plenty of Christians who have not believed in the Holy Trinity. Even when my father was growing up Lutheran, he never accepted the Holy Trinity. It never made sense to him. Was he not Christian? A close blogging friend of mine investigated the LDS church but decided not to join but does not believe in the Holy Trinity. Is he not Christian? He proclaims Christ as his personal Lord and Savior. He proclaims the Bible to be the word of God. But he does not accept the Trinity. Again, is he not Christian?
“don’t be shocked if I return the favor…”
You again defend the motto, “do unto others as they did to me”. This is the manner which you blog. This mannerism is manifested frequently. You come to the blog, say something outrageous against another faith, and when called a name, you reciprocate and then when somweone calls you out for attacking others you say, “they did it first”. Even here on this string, when it was CLEARLY you who initiated contention, it‘s still the other guy’s fault. Good luck with that.
(backing up one post)
“yes and I have backed those things up…”
No, you have not. I’ve shown how your application to false prophecy is erred and how Smith did not say things you said he did. I’ve shown you biblically how what Smith said does not make him a false prophet. (con’t)
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:39pm‘I said ok I will. Called your bluff. You then squirmed back from your threat. I then gave you my location if you desired to speak face to face and you declined. Have the integrity to admit the truth Joe. ”
you are the one who issued the threat…you did NOT give me your address, you didn’t even have the guts to respond to my email…you cowardly little punk.
you said you’d come to my city…then quickly changed your mind….I called your threats, and you backed down….no surprise there….
You make no one look stupid but yourself. You scare people away from God with your vile and hateful comments “in the name of Jesus”.”
and you with your vile hateful threats and comments are just a shining saint….you holier-than-thou wacko hypocrite. so you can issue threats, and call people names…and thats ‘christlike’ uh huh….
sorry its a free message board, I’ll post to whom I please……whether you like it or not.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:47pm“No, you have not. I’ve shown how your application to false prophecy is erred and how Smith did not say things you said he did. I’ve shown you biblically how what Smith said does not make him a false prophet. (con’t)”
no you said I quoted him incorrectly, then when you couldn’t show that I did, you reverted to a long detailed convulted story about how he was ‘misunderstood’ and ‘taken out of context’ please.
smith is a false prophet…truth hurts.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:51pm“You say that Catholics consider him to be a trinitarian. First off, why? Because the Encyclopedia cites Martyr as declaring the Holy Ghost as “occupying the third place in the Trinity”? That’s not a direct quote from Martyr. That’s, as you said, what Catholics say of him. The work they cited is “I Apol., vi” which I have not read, nor can I find online. They used the capital “T” to identify Martyr when the Holy Trinity came about two hundred years after Martyr. ”
so I should believe you over the catholic church why?
are you an early church scholar? did you write your dissertation on Martyr?
I think I’ll take the word of the catholic church over you anyday…sorry.,
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:53pm(con’t);
“and you’ve lied about what I said. and you saying you believe in One God, which mormons manifestly do not”
We manifestly do. here’s the link you previously used back to the LDS Dictionary of “God: http://lds.org/scriptures/bd/god?lang=eng&letter=g Here is says, “The personage known as Jehovah in Old Testament times, and who is usually identified in the Old Testament as Lord (in capital letters), is the Son, known as Jesus Christ, and who is also a God. Jesus works under the direction of the Father and is in complete harmony with him. “. We very much believe in one God. That is a oness in the most perfect manner. The only difference is that you interpret “one” in substance or essence. It is your belief which has no biblical foundation; not one in unity. Or are there passages of God’s substance and essence? I know of none myself. And I fail to see how this view makes the LDS not Christian.
As for your calling me a liar and a son of Satan, that was based upon mere theological disagreements. In the same breathe you also called me a liar for saying that Catholics believe that man needs to do works for salvation. Good luck with that.
“I didn’t say your faith will count as naught…”
Yes you did. I don’t have time to find the link but you did.
“but you faith in nothing….the mormon gods do not exist….your gods are not the God of the Bible”
So then, what good is my faith? (con’t)
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:54pm“Even here on this string, when it was CLEARLY you who initiated contention, it‘s still the other guy’s fault. Good luck with that.”
yeah poor okie, he’s just a victim…he can threaten me, and do whatever he wants, but if I go after him, on a legitimate topic, I’m just a mean old monster….please.
good luck with your laughable contentions…oh and I didn’t go after you when you said what you did about me…
but no its all about *my* behavior…the rest of you polytheists are just SO holy….holier-than-thou hypocrites that is…mr. works are SO important….
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:56pm“And I say that’s not necessarily true. There’s been plenty of Christians who have not believed in the Holy Trinity. Even when my father was growing up Lutheran, he never accepted the Holy Trinity.”
my post was deleted…you saw what the lutheran church said…don’t like it? take it up with them…
again why would anyone believe what you say, a member of a non-christian polytheistic cult, as the catholics say, over what the lutheran church says?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:57pm“And I say that’s not necessarily true. There’s been plenty of Christians who have not believed in the Holy Trinity. Even when my father was growing up Lutheran, he never accepted the Holy Trinity.”
you saw what the lutheran church said, right? why would anyone believe you over them?
(my posts seem to get deleted)
Report Post »WeekendAtBernankes
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 5:59pmIf you can‘t recognize the difference between having fun and worshiping the devil you’re a tool. I feel sorry for your kids you miser.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 6:03pm“. The only difference is that you interpret “one” in substance or essence. It is your belief which has no biblical foundation; not one in unity. Or are there passages of God’s substance and essence? I know of none myself. And I fail to see how this view makes the LDS not Christian.”
BS…yeah all the christian churches have believed that since christianity was founded…but you mormons know best…sure….why don’t you take it up with the catholics? since you are trying to take their saints…..
While the Catholic Church would reject nothing that is true or good in Mormonism or any other world religion, Catholic theology would have to note that there is a tremendous amount in Mormonism that is neither true nor good. Further, because Mormonism presents itself as a form of Christianity yet is incompatible with the historic Christian faith, sound pastoral practice would need to warn the Christian faithful: Mormon theology is blasphemous, polytheistic, and cannot be considered on par with the theology of other Christian groups.
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/what-does-the-catholic-church-say-about-the-practices-and-beliefs-of-mormonism
I‘m sure you’ll be able to persuade them…snicker…
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 6:05pm(con’t)
“I’ve never judged your works, or your actions…”
Really? You never said, “haven’t seen much love from the mormons towards me…no turning the cheek, usually every time the mormons start hurling insults at me first…..hypocrisy much? ” That’s weird. I could have sworn you said that somewhere at sometime. Obvliously not on this string of comments you didn’t or it would be all too obvious to point out. Furthermore, haven’t you said, at least once, that the mere fact that Mormons believe we can do things for our salvation denies Jesus Christ?
“the arrogance of you would-be gods…..”
You’re not a god? Hmmmm.
“of course I’ve noticed that *my* posts are always up for criticism…but NEVER those who say vile things to me….”
Like Henryclay’s? As I can see plainly, some mormon named Darren did defend you. As for Oldtrucker, “Joe, what is wrong with you? I was reading posts from good people expressing their thoughts on Halloween and then you come in, insulting everyone. You are a destroyer of decent conversations. I would suggest you try to apply to yourself the “mind of Christ” instead of a argumentative fool.” That was vile against you? Really? While strictly speaking you did not “insult[] everyone”, pointing out how you began contention is something “vile”? You’re again pulling out the victim card. Tha‘ts you’re M.O. Start contention, get called a name, call them names, then say they started it so blame
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 6:05pm“As for your calling me a liar and a son of Satan, that was based upon mere theological disagreements. In the same breathe you also called me a liar for saying that Catholics believe that man needs to do works for salvation. Good luck with that. ”
uh no, now you’re lying again…it was because of your constant lies about my position…and twisting what I said…
its this kind of behavior and blatant lying that earned you the ‘like father, like son’ title…you not only lie about the bible, you lie about me.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 6:06pm““but you faith in nothing….the mormon gods do not exist….your gods are not the God of the Bible”
So then, what good is my faith? (con’t)
”
I don’t think its any good….since your mormon gods do not exist….the rest of christianity will NEVER accept mormons as christians….just calling yourselves christians is a lie….you accuse the rest of us as being apostate…and only you mormons are right…the arrogance of you would-be gods.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 6:27pmJoe;
If you do not want to answer anything directly, that’s fine by me. I do not care what the Missouri Synod‘s declaration bears upon my father’s upraising and, frankly, if their approach to him was equalt oyours then I think my father would have left the Lutheran faith much earlier than he did. Regarding Martyr, I asked YOU why he’d be consider trinitarian when he made a distinction between a God from God the Father; nor did he declare that the Holy Ghost was the third person in the Trinity. If you don’t want to answer, that’s fine by me. If you want to revert back to the website, that’s fine too; but it doesn’t help move anything foward.
“no surprise you ignore what I posted to you..”
I did? I thought I said, “That’s, as you said, what Catholics say of him.” But perhaps that’s my inagination.
I do not try to take the Catholic saints; just display their own words.
Could you get a link where you and Okie sent out invitations to meet?
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 6:39pmOkie;
“All apostate religions believe in one God: Current Jews, Muslims, Pagans, Muslims, and Satanists. ”
I agree that belief in only one being is not correct. There is God te Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. These are three separate being yet united in purpose. While you and I do agre n the Godhead I know there’s some disagreements as to who they are. Here’s my view: Elohim is the “Most High God” or, “Elyon”. “Yahweh” is a Son of the most High God. Yahwe is “Jehovah” in English and I believe that refers to Jesus. Jesus is Lord or God but Elohim the most High God. The Holy Ghost testifies of them both. While “Jehovah” and “Elohim” are interchangable names in some cases, there’s definitely a distinct patter of reference in scripture regarding these names. My understanding is that “Elohim” is used for God the Father and “Yahweh” or “Jehovah” as “Lord/LORD” in the New testament.
And, yes, all should be free to worship.
Could you provide a link between you and Joe regarding your invites? I’d like to read into it.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 6:47pmJoe;
“uh no, now you’re lying again…it was because of your constant lies about my position…and twisting what I said…”
Nope. You included that within your posts but that’s hardly when it began.
“its this kind of behavior and blatant lying that earned you the ‘like father, like son’ title…you not only lie about the bible, you lie about me.”
Ok, thanks.
“So then, what good is my faith? (con’t)
”
I don’t think its any good….”
Which is another way of saying that it’s for naught, no?
Good night, Joe. I luvs ya dude.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 7:26pm“Really? You never said, “haven’t seen much love from the mormons towards me…no turning the cheek, usually every time the mormons start hurling insults at me first…..hypocrisy much? ” That’s weird. I could have sworn you said that somewhere at sometime.
darren, I know this is really hard for you to understand…but I never claimed you weren’t a mormon…but you manage to judge my christianity all the time…
” Obvliously not on this string of comments you didn’t or it would be all too obvious to point out. Furthermore, haven’t you said, at least once, that the mere fact that Mormons believe we can do things for our salvation denies Jesus Christ? ”
”
uh I didn’t exactly say that works salvation denies Jesus….another lie on your part….what I said is…. you are saying what Jesus did is not good enough, you have to add your works to His in order to be saved…isn‘t that what you’re saying?? hmmmmm???
“You’re not a god? Hmmmm.”
nope, never will be.,
“Like Henryclay’s? As I can see plainly, some mormon named Darren did defend you. As for Oldtrucker, “Joe, what is wrong with you? I was reading posts from good people expressing their thoughts on Halloween and then you come in, insulting everyone”
that was nice of you, but notice I didn’t respond to him…so much for your accusation about me ‘doing unto others as they do unto me’ I’m sure you will apologize right?
as far as oldtrucker, I wasn’t talking to anyone
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 7:31pm“If you do not want to answer anything directly, that’s fine by me. I do not care what the Missouri Synod‘s declaration bears upon my father’s upraising and, frankly, if their approach to him was equalt oyours then I think my father would have left the Lutheran faith much earlier than he did.”
no they’re just a large lutheran denomination, what do they know? uh huh….you know whats funny darren, is you can’t post anything from any other christian denomination to support any of your positions….you say you’re a christian,…then post the doctrinal statements from other christian churches that believe as you mormons do….deny the trinity…believe in multiple gods…you cannot
I support my positions with statements from some of the largest christian churches in existence…you don’t support your positions at all….have you noticed that? very telling…
“You’re again pulling out the victim card. Tha‘ts you’re M.O. Start contention, get called a name, call them names, then say they started it so blame”
notice I didn’t call heny clay any names….looks like you are lying about me again.
“Martyr, I asked YOU why he’d be consider trinitarian when he made a distinction between a God from God the Father; ”
unlike you darren, I don’t think I know it all…I will defer to the judgement of the catholic church…and you don’t know if that was an earlier position, whether he changed his mind, or if he further explained that position…ag
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 7:35pm“Which is another way of saying that it’s for naught, no?
Good night, Joe. I luvs ya dude.
”
do you really want a fuller explanation of this? you won’t like it…..just because the gods of the mormons is not the God of the Bible, doesn‘t mean they don’t exist…..just as many gods existed in the OT….like the prince of persia……get the picture????
as far as faith in the real God of the bible, if you don’t believe in the God of the bible, how can you have faith in Him?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 7:38pmdarren, I believe smith did have a vision from an angel…moroni…a fallen angel…
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 7:42pmsince this was cut off…
as far as oldtrucker, I wasn’t talking to anyone ELSE…there are a whole lot of people in this thread, his accusation that I insulted EVERYONE else…is a lie…
hmmmmm….I‘m bettin he’s just another good mormon…..
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 8:03pmoh and darren, you may find this interesting…
•Anglican/Episcopal – Accepts the doctrine of the Trinity.
•Assembly of God – Accepts the doctrine of the Trinity.
•Baptist – Accepts the doctrine of the Trinity.
•Lutheran – Accepts the doctrine of the Trinity.
•Methodist – Accepts the doctrine of the Trinity.
•Presbyterian – Accepts the doctrine of the Trinity.
•Roman Catholic – Accepts the doctrine of the Trinity.
http://christianity.about.com/od/denominationscomparison/ss/comparebeliefs1_4.htm
so go ahead and post all those christian churches that deny the trinity….this should be good….
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 8:33pmDarren
Midway down under Libertarian B4Libertarians were cool…
Look at the post on 10/17/11 at 7:32 AM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/romney-a-rockefeller-republican-newt-thinks-so/
I’m not sure I understand what you and I differ on in regards to the Godhead. My faith is non denominational who keep God’s commandments and faith in Jesus Christ. Were you explaining the difference of your belief in Godhead and JW? I’m ignorant around JW belief on Godhead I must say. I do have great friends on here that are JW. Either way, appreciate you much. Keep up the good fight.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 9:14pmOkie;
My appologies. I assumed you were Jehovah’s Witness. Thanks for the clarification. And, yes, you and I do very much agree on the Godhead.
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 9:34pmOkie;
The main difference between my belief of the Godhead and that of the Jehovah’s Witnesses is that they do not accept Jehovah as Jesus Christ of but as God the Father. I view Elohim as God the Father and Jehovah as the Son. Regarding Yahweh being the Son, I recently leanred about Margaret Barker. She’s trinitarian but check this out:
“The real Introduction to The Risen Lord; The Jesus of History as the Christ of Faith is my earlier book The Great Angel; A Study of Israel’s Second God, which showed that the religion of the first temple had not been monotheism. Yahweh, the LORD, had been the second God, the guardian angel and patron deity of Israel, the Son of El Elyon. Once the Deuteronomists had introduced monotheism into the life, and more importantly, into the records, of the people of Judah, Yahweh and El Elyon were no longer distinct.
(con’t)
Report Post »Darren
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 9:36pm(con’t)
In order that such misconceptions do not cause further confusion, the conclusions of The Great Angel, which form the premise of The Risen Lord, are these: some, perhaps most, of the heirs to Israel’s ancient religion continued to believe throughout the second temple period that Yahweh, the LORD, was the Great Angel, the Second God. These people identified Jesus as that second divinity and they did not become a small sect (another misrepresentation of my views) but were the original Palestinian church. When they proclaimed ‘Jesus is LORD’, they meant ‘Jesus is Yahweh, come to save his people’.”
Is that interesting or what?
http://www.margaretbarker.com/Publications/Extracts/RisenLordIntro.htm
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 9:40pmdarren…I notice you didn’t apologize to me for lying about me always retaliating….no surprise…
oh and I notice you don’t have any other churches listed that agree with the mormons…gee what a surprise…
and lets not forget the orthodox…
The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not merely an “article of faith” which men are called to “believe.” It is not simply a dogma which the Church requires its good members to “accept on faith.” Neither is the doctrine of the Holy Trinity the invention of scholars and academicians, the result of intellectual speculation and philosophical thinking.
The doctrine of the Holy Trinity arises from man’s deepest experiences with God. It comes from the genuine living knowledge of those who have come to know God in faith.
http://oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith/doctrine/the-holy-trinity/the-doctrine-of-the-holy-trinity
Eastern Orthodox Christian theology is the theology particular to the Eastern Orthodox Church. It is characterized by monotheistic Trinitarianism,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Christian_theology
but of course what do a couple of BILLION people, and the great men of faith through ages, luther, thomas aquinas, Wesley, CS Lewis etc, know compared to the gods of the salt lake??
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 9:45pmthanks opie, for that link…
“Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 17, 2011 at 12:01pm
@Joe
Actually Joe you can email your address and I‘ll hop on the first plane out of town and we can continue this discussion face to face if you’d like! I will call you a wussy with a p straight to your face and tell you you are a poor excuse for an American because you are. Of course you‘d try to commit violence and I’d have to put you in your place. Joe wanting violence.
”
yeah thats a threat……but of course when he gave his email address, his story changed to me coming to his farm…then he never gave me his address or responded to my email….
oh and notice the vile anti-semitism of okie on that thread…..more proof of a profoundly sick and evil man….
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 9:53pmDarren
That is cool stuff. You‘ve given me some info to look into and I thank you much as I’m a nerd for new info to digest. Michael….Who do you hold that he is in the Bible?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 9:59pm@darren…lets see you said…
“You’re again pulling out the victim card. Tha‘ts you’re M.O. Start contention, get called a name, call them names, then say they started it so blame”
I didn’t do that with henryclay now did I?
aren’t you ashamed of lying about me? thought you would have the integrity to apologize, since you are a holy man of such good works, aren’t you?
Report Post »Nasado
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 10:15pmWow, people need to lighten up. Just because a we enjoy dressing up one day a year for fun does not make me any less Christain that anyone. Get over yourselves. So, do all those condemning Halloween not let their children read Harry Potter because it has magic in it? Are you afraid your children will try to fly off the balcony on a broom? It is the same thing. Just because you may have fun dressing up in a costume does not mean you believe in it or ever will. Its crazy people like you who give Christains a bad name as religious freaks.
Report Post »Max jones
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 10:43pmI don’t know of any congregation that follows the complete Christian ethic. No, not one. I can’t do it myself.
Report Post »Right at the same time that the evil one makes his move(right now), the Christian church takes a left turn into the arms of the nwo. Its the great Apostacy. It is the culmination of the isidious acceptance of pagan idolatry into the traditions of the church itself. It is on display at almost any church you’d care to look into.
The main tactic of the satanic method is to make the Holy profane and the profane Holy. Satan wants relative morality and socialism, and tolerance of sexual perversion to be our “religion”.
Are your pastors and deacons and youth ministers all on the same page when it comes to morals and the social treatment jof sin? Probably not. Humanism will not save a single soul.
Okie from Muskogee
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 10:47pmJoe on 10/17/11 @ 7:32 AM which is BEFORE 12:31 PM…..
“you’re an anti-semitic wacko…all libertarians are…they’re nut-jobs…as you prove..and they talk real tough behind a keyboard…but we all know you’d never talk to me like this to my face….wimp.”
I will post your emails if you‘d like asking for my social security number as well if you’d like Joe. Anti Semitic I am not. American first I am. Israel has zero to do with my salvation and never will. Labeling anyone who won’t die for Israel as anti-Semitic is simply a tactic of Saul Alinskey. Good try and truth always prevails. My last post to you and I ask you one last time to leave me alone. Thanks and Goodbye..
Report Post »guntotinsquaw
Posted on November 2, 2011 at 12:17amAll Hallows Eve…the night before All Souls Day in England, the poor would “go a-souling”. They would go door to door asking for food, and in return, would pray for the souls of their dead relatives. It was widely believed at the time that the souls of the dead would await passage into heaven until enough people prayed for their souls. The Christian church encouraged this practice to replace the old Pagan tradition of leaving cakes and wine out for the spirits of the dead. The poor would be given “soul cakes”, which were pastries made for those who promised to pray for their dead relatives. In some cultures, soul cakes would be given in exchange for a performance or song as well. Children eventually adopted this practice, and were given food, ale, or money. All Hallows Eve has never had anything to do with Satanism, halloween was not a popular observance in early United States history, as most of the early settlers were Protestant. At the time, Halloween was considered mostly a Catholic, Episcopalian, and Pagan holiday, and therefore largely ignored. The dressing in costumes is Celtic…to chase evil spirits away. In Satanism, the most celebrated day is ones own birthday.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on November 2, 2011 at 1:05amJoe 1234: Gal 3:6 Paul is talking about Abraham’s salvation & how it didn’t come from the law of Moses start in chp. 2 and read the whole context. R we saved by works of the Law of Moses or by works of faith? Mark 16:16 Let me ask u a simple question, would u baptize someone who didn’t believe? You can’t be baptized unless u believe in the first place. If u do not believe then u can’t go any further. Baptism is required for salvation. Its a work, just like belief is a work (John 6:28-29) and belief is a commandment (1 John 3:23). If u are commanded to believe then u are saved by a work that *you* did, but it was commanded by God for u to do. If u don’t do what God commands u to do then u will not be saved. One cannot be justified by faith alone James 2 states that. Faith is dead if it’s faith alone. John 3:16, doesn‘t state anything about repentance either but wouldn’t u agree that one must repent or likewise perish? (Luke 13:3) Rom. 4:5, Another reference to the Law of Moses and nowhere mentioned is it “faith alone” nor is repentance mentioned here but that does not mean repentance is not needed. Requiring baptism for salvation is indeed Biblical and I recommend reading these verses if u have doubts. Mt. 28:19-20; Mk. 16:16; Acts 2:38; 22:16; Rom. 6:3-4; 1 Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:27; Eph. 5:26; Tit. 3:5; 1 Pet. 3:21 I find it odd that Baptists call themselves such yet only believe “faith alone” saves & 1 cannot believe unless supernaturally empowered by God.
Report Post »Irene23
Posted on November 2, 2011 at 6:54amI sort of agree with SageInWaiting. When I was growing up, my parents did not agree with Halloween so we didn’t celebrate it. We let it pass and we didn’t do anything for it. Some might think this made us kids unhappy but we always did extra fun things for Christmas to make up for it.
Report Post »The message was clear that Christmas is a celebration of Jesus’s birth, not “JesusWeen” and not the church’s “Fall Harvest”, and Easter was to celebrate the rising of Jesus from the dead.
I know the churches around here have been holding Fall Harvests and the church kids just go to the Fall Harvest during the afternoon of Halloween and then they go Trick or Treating at night. They just celebrate the day twice; Fall Harvest is an addition to celebrating All Hallow’s Eve, and then these same churches do very little around Christmas, making Christmas practically irrelevant. Christmas takes a backseat to Halloween as a result. When I was young, the entire month of December was dedicated to helping the less fortunate, holding soup kitchens, etc. Our church was open on Thanksgiving with volunteers serving up food and shelter to the homeless. It was a very Christlike celebration of a very Holy holiday. Halloween was very much a ghost town in my neck of the woods. Nothing to remember about it, whereas Thanksgiving and Christmas were both much more fun.
Street Justice
Posted on November 2, 2011 at 7:38amWhile contemplating what to do with Halloween, research and consider the origins of Easter and other alleged “Christian holidays”…you may be surprised at what you find…
Quiet Mind, Dangerous Body, Compassionate Soul
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 2, 2011 at 8:50am“I will post your emails if you‘d like asking for my social security number as well if you’d like Joe. Anti Semitic I am not. American first I am. Israel has zero to do with my salvation and never will. Labeling anyone who won’t die for Israel as anti-Semitic is simply a tactic of Saul Alinskey. Good try and truth always prevails. My last post to you and I ask you one last time to leave me alone. Thanks and Goodbye..”
anyone reading those posts of yours will conclude you’re an anti-semitic wacko…besides knowing nothing about foreign policy, or really any other subject…..you’re seriously ignorant.
as far as your last post…..whatever opie….didn’t you just say in the post before…
“Believe as you wish Joe, just learn to tell the truth. I ask you to please do not post to me, about me or with my words. We have nothing to discuss and need not interact. Please respect that. Thanks. ”
so are you lying in this post, or the last one? LOL
go ahead and post those emails…should be good for a laugh…I wanted to see just how stupid you really are….what a buffoon!!
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 2, 2011 at 9:00am“Let me ask u a simple question, would u baptize someone who didn’t believe? ”
no why bother? the important thing is whether they believe or not…baptism is a sign of what has already happened to you. it has NOTHING to do with whether you are saved or not.
“Gal 3:6 Paul is talking about Abraham’s salvation & how it didn’t come from the law of Moses”
no it didn’t come from the law…..just like our salvation doesn’t come from works of the law…how hard is this?
John 6:
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
uh notice Jesus said NOTHING about baptism…does that give you a clue….and add that verse to this…
Romans 4:5 Paul said, “to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.”
This means faith (belief) is the only thing you can do that’s not counted as work.
Mt. 28:19-20 says nothing about needing baptism for salvation….sorry….nor do any of the other verses you posted.
you‘re basically saying what Jesus did isn’t good enough, and you can’t trust in what He did, you have to add your own efforts in order to be saved…good luck with that.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on November 2, 2011 at 4:25pmJoe 1234: “no why bother?”
Exactly!!! You wouldn‘t baptize someone who wouldn’t believe. So to answer why Mark 16:16 doesn’t say “and who does not believe and is not baptized,” There is no reason to say that if the person won’t even believe!
“no it didn’t come from the law…..just like our salvation doesn’t come from works of the law…how hard is this?”
Again exactly, our salvation doesn’t come from the works of the Law of Moses it comes from the works of the Law of Christ, the things He commanded we must do. (Luke 6:46 Why do you call me Lord Lord and not do the things which I say?)
John 6:28-29 The question is, is baptism a work? Yes. So is Believing. John states it clearly that Believing is a work and a command just like baptism. It is something God told us to do in order to be saved. God commanded us to believe, that is a work!
Romans 4:5 “This means faith (belief) is the only thing you can do that’s not counted as work.”
It IS a work and I suggest re-reading John 6:28-29 AND 1 John 3:23.
Mt. 28:19-20 “says nothing about needing baptism for salvation”
Report Post »Then why did Jesus command His disciples to do this if it’s not needed? Acts 2:38 plainly states baptism is FOR the remission of sins not “an outward sign of an inward grace” (which the phrase or even the concept is nowhere found in the Bible).
joe1234
Posted on November 2, 2011 at 8:16pm@scarebare…
what little cult do you belong to? because your beliefs are not orthodox christian beliefs…why don’t you post the docrtrinal statements from the catholics, methodists, etc who believe as you do…you cannot.
you have no answers for my points, no surprise. all you can do is repeat your talking points.
“Then why did Jesus command His disciples to do this if it’s not needed? ”
yeah Jesus commanded us to take care of the poor too..Matthew 25…so according to your logic, giving to the poor is a requirement for salvation too…
“God commanded us to believe, that is a work! ”
please..ephesians 2:9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast
what about NOT BY WORKS do you not understand????
go back to you unbiblical unchristian cult and work harder…this belief that you have to add your works to what Christ did is the original sin of satan…pride. repent.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on November 2, 2011 at 10:37pm“what little cult do you belong to? because your beliefs are not orthodox christian beliefs…why don’t you post the docrtrinal statements from the catholics, methodists, etc”
Because I’m none of those. I don’t belong to a man made denomination. I belong to the church that Christ built that is worthy of His name. His church.
“yeah Jesus commanded us to take care of the poor too..”
James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
please..ephesians 2:8
I noticed you tend to use this as basically your only argument for “faith only” yet I have showed you verse after verse that “faith only” is dead. In fact the Bible shows us that one must work out his salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), abound in good works (2 Cor. 9:8; Eph. 2:10; Col. 1:10), and be aware we will be judged by our deeds (Mt. 16:27; Rom. 2:6; 2 Cor. 5:10; 1 Pet. 1:17).
(Cont’d)
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on November 2, 2011 at 10:52pmCont’d
what about NOT BY WORKS do you not understand????
Look this isn’t faith vs. works this is faith AND works. I do not deny that one needs faith but one must do as God commanded in order to be saved. Abraham had faith, well how do we know he had faith? I go back to James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? I suggest reading the story of Naaman (2 Kings 5) as an example as well. Was he cleansed of his leprosy because he prayed? Was it faith alone that healed him? or was it that he did as commanded him that he was cleansed? What about Noah? Was it his faith alone that saved him or was it faith and works, that he built an ark as God commanded that he and his house was saved?
“go back to you unbiblical unchristian cult and work harder…this belief that you have to add your works to what Christ did is the original sin of satan…pride. repent.”
We were given the gift of salvation (Rom 6:23) but not without obedience to God the Father. I can’t see how clearer I can make it. Baptism is not a work of merit that one can boast, baptism is a work of God.
Report Post »DreamsWeaver01
Posted on November 3, 2011 at 3:26pmI think it would be much more productive to deemphasize Halloween and instead put our money into Thanksgiving a holiday where we could produce good, have fun and be the leaders Christians are supposed to be. Christians seem so naive where the negatives in our lives come from and how they influence our lives and the lives of our future generation.
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on November 5, 2011 at 5:52pmI commented towards the beginning of this sting a few days ago.
Joe1234, why are you so angry with everyone you talk too here?
OldTruckers must have really touched a nerve with Joe as he kept referring to him with disgust.
Then OkiefromMuskogee finally got tired of him and Darren fell into the trap of contention.
Joe, try to calm down and accept or at least consider other opinions. You may learn something. Humility and respect for others is required of a Christian. Could it be you could improve in this area? If you do not, you will find no one willing to talk to you.
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on November 5, 2011 at 6:08pmOkie from Muskogee,
Good afternoon!
Re: your quandary about the Godhead.
3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. – Exodus 6:3 KJV
18That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth. – Psalms 83:18
2Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation. – Isaiah 12:2 KJV
4Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength: – Isaiah 26:4 KJV
Jesus, the Christ is Jehovah God’s son.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. – John 3:16 KJV
Peace to you my friend.
Report Post »Mikey313
Posted on April 10, 2012 at 1:12pmI know alot about Celtic culture, i have read many books and have done my research. What most Christians dont realize when they say “its not pagan anymore or its not wrong to observe it the way we do” is that todays halloween celebrations are almost identicle to the Celebrations of old…Jackolanterns are a good example…people would carve them out of turnips and put candels in them to light the way for the dead. They would put out offerings so that when the Dead and other spiritual beigns were given free reign they would take the offering and pass over their home…By dressing up and going door to door for candy we are not only participating but Acting out the pagan traditions! there is nothing Christian about halloween..infact there is nothing Secular about halloween either it is a Religious holliday wether you acknowledge that aspect or not you are stil participating in it
Report Post »RevDave
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:50pmI’m a firm believer in individual choice, so, yes. I’m also a firm believer that Christians should know a little something about their own faith. As a part of the Church calendar (yes,,,yes, it is) it is essentially a “memento mori,” a reminder of our mortality, to be followed up by an honoring of the dead on All Saints. The Irish pagan tradition understood it in much the same way- Reynolds is right.
Report Post »LimaBean
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:49pmYes, of course they should, if they want to. I’ve never found Halloween to be a threat to my Christian faith. If you’re a Christian who believes otherwise, that’s fine. Don’t celebrate it. It is what you make it, I guess. My daughter has participated in Halloween parties, trick or treats, costumes, etc. all her life. She didn’t turn to Wicca or Satanism. Hope she won’t be criticized for reading the whole Harry Potter series as well.
Report Post »Jeff65
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 6:43amWe each need to make up our minds according to where we are in our faith as I think you are suggesting, but just for discussion sake I would like to offer the following:
There is more to making the decision according to whether you think it threatens your faith or not. You also want to make sure that you are not being inconsistent. There are things I’m teaching my children about the Bible and how to live according to the Word of God, that would make my boys confused if they participated in Halloween.
They have friends in the area that are Christians that participate, but my boys seem to have no problem not doing so themselves. Not a single “please daddy” from them. Quite the opposite. Today at the dinner table they started telling us about discussions they had with their friends and the the things the saw when they were out playing while the trick-or-treating started. They joked about the rotten teeth that there friends are getting from too much candy and spoke about some of the things their uncle told them about sugar.
My kids are home schooled so they are probably a little strange. They would prefer spinach and fruit more than a bag of candies and they want to get some fire crackers to blowup small Santa statues (did I tell you they were boys?). My seven year old thought it was crazy how the parents would waste so much money on a new costume every year.
We talk about the paganism stuff too, but the above should give you an idea about my meaning of i
Report Post »TheCalvinistPastor
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:47pmI used to be a Jehovah’s Witness, and grew up NOT celebrating this holiday. I demonized anybody that observed it immediately disregarding them as pagan.
Report Post »Since leaving that legalistic religion however, I have come to a different point of view. This issue is a slippery slope. I certinally understand not worshiping the devil as a christian. But thats not what American Halloween is about. Most people when they dress up and decorate are not worshiping deamons in conjunction with it.
Everything we do has some sort of “pagan” foundation. Wedding rings, wearing white, even christmas has pagan roots, should we pass those off as being non-christian as well because of its foundation?
Same goes with halloween. God knows our heart, we are saved by faith in him, not by our own deeds. If we have that faith as a foundation, I dont fear being judged by god for my child wearing a tinkerbell costume. Thats my two cents
Survivor101
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:07pmGREAT POINT!!! How many of these same folks blasting Halloween, also say things like “Gosh Darn” “Oh my goodness” “heck” “awww shoot”….it is all still cussing and pervasive in our lives. Just because you sub does not take away the intent. You still mean to cuss….every word will be accounted for…let kids enjoy in a non-demonic way a great holiday in which people actually give and participate as a community.
Report Post »OutOnTheTiles
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:23pmAlthough I’m not onboard with the “faith only” bit and our “deeds” don’t matter bit you mentioned, I do agree that for 90+% of people, Halloween is just dressing up in fun costumes, carving pumpkins and candy. Period.
Report Post »Those that are over-reacting need to give up their “pagan” calendars as well since they’re a gateway to the “occult”! Then you wouldn’t even know when Oct 31st is or that many of the months are named after pagan gods. LOL.
zorro
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:46pmI’m with OutOnTheTiles but thanks for your post. Excellent points indeed.
Report Post »hidden_lion
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:28pmDon’t forget wed=Woden’s day, thurs= Thor’s, etc…….
Report Post »TheCalvinistPastor
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:16pm@Floridacracker
Report Post »The gospel has nothing to do with Halloween, anymore then it does with Birthdays. We are free in Christ to celebrate festivals, holy days according to tradition. This is the exact same senario Paul was addressing at Col 2:16.
The Jewish Christians were offended by the Gentile Christians for eating meats that were sacrificed to pagan idols (a common pagan ritual back then to eat food that was sacriifced) Paul addressed this very easially by says the pagan gods were not real anyways. THey were free to eat meat, however if it stumbled their brothers, why eat it in front of them? Thats why Paul also said to the Corinthians “Everything is permissible”–but not everything is beneficial”
Just because we have freedom to do something, does not mean we should do it.
Same applies to Halloween. We are free in Christ to celebrate it, BUT if our friends are offended by the holiday, is it really advantageous for the Christian to celebrate it? I would think not.
The other extreme is judging another Christian for having this tradition. That is the point I am trying to make. I would never demand that a “Real” christian would never celebrate it, neither would i demand that a “real” christian should celebrate any holiday (christmas, easter etc..) We all have a God given Conscience. Use it.
TheCalvinistPastor
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:50pm@hidden_lion
Report Post »Good point Lion, like i said, its a slippery slope. The moment I start demanding the abolishment of one tradition because of its “pagan background” I also have to apply that same standard to everything else. Wedding rings were origianlly part of an Egyptian Pagan wedding ritual, so should we therefore as “Christians” reflect this same tradition? or should it be done away with because of its roots?
Like I said, our history is saturated with pagan roots, we can either demonize EVERYTHING with pagan roots, or redefine our own traditions. And thats exactly what we have done. Haloween is a prime example. It has good history with crops, harvest etc.. and it has a pagan history. American tradition has taken elements from both and applied it into something entirely new. A holiday mostly for kids. Most people who celebrate this holiday do not think twice about its history and therefore are not worshiping the devil. Thats why I do not condem them for it.
Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:01pmCalvinist
I kindly ask you read 1 Corinthians 8 the whole chapter
Puffed up knowledge without love is sinning against Christ.
Acts 10
We are not to partake in Pagan worship. No sir. I’ll provide more verses if need be but 1 Corinthians 8 drills it.
Report Post »Jeff65
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 7:04am@CalvanistPastor See my “speech” just above your initial post. You don’t have to be legalistic to decide that it is inappropriate to participate in Halloween. It is about integrity. If you want to do all things for the glory of God then you will want to keep as many thoughts and actions as you can consistent.
There are many things that everyone does every day that is more consistent with paganism than their Christian faith. So the decisions Christians make are usually based on pagan thought pattern rather than the Bible. I have to uproot it in my family daily.
I like it better when my boys tell me at dinner time that they would like to get the fire crackers they hear outside and blowup Santa decorations. They are always coming up with good ideas.:)
Report Post »Realitychic
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 9:48amGood point. You need to examine for yourself and maybe pray about it and do what you feel is right for your family. (based on scripture & prayer time) Its about our heart and our obideience to God.
Report Post »An Obvious point: IF you are celebrating with: grave stones, witches, gore- that is obviously NOT funny nor appropriate.
MOST or all AMERICAN TRADITIONS/Celebrations are American not religous. Lets not muddy our faith with americanism and/or comfortability- which is the death of the real church/christians in AMERICA.
Hythloday
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:45pmCall it a pressure valve…Christians need to let off steam, or their heads will implode…Look how well having no release valve worked in the middle ages…Even Christ was amongst the devil but did not become consumed by his temptations…Live amongst the earth, but not in it, right? I contend that Halloween is the least of our worries when it comes to evil in the world. Come tomorrow, Halloween will have passed, some kids will still have candy and hopefully fond memories, but the world will continue to churn out monsters and horrific tragedies…If you personally cannot control the level of reality/non-reality with your kid, that has far less to do with this holiday than it does your inability to teach and implement moderation. Get over it people, Halloween is fun…you can’t let your child dress up as Dracula, a ghost, or a zombie one night out of the year, but want to inundate them with the horrors of reality the rest of the calendar year maybe you should reconsider how you raise your child, and yourself for that matter.
Report Post »Jeff65
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 7:13amWow. You sure are full of judgement.
With what I teach my boys, they just find everything about Halloween foolish. So how is it letting off steam doing something that you think is stupid? When you see good, you have no desire for evil. There are many different way of enjoying yourself. If you think the way to have fun is by participating in Halloween, then go for it. Just stop judging others for having no desire for it.
Report Post »Hythloday
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 12:25pmWhy are you judging me who judges other people? Hypocrisy is a stylish teacher. Your boys don’t like Halloween, they fall into the pie-slice of the minority’s minority. If you didn‘t grasp the common thread on this ’thread’, you would notice it‘s chalk full of ’judgment’, that is the point. Just because you have two kids that don’t care for the holiday, doesn‘t justify the ’radical’ Christian perspective seemingly all of a sudden against Halloween. It’s a dangerous road to go down, attempting to select evil out of all things, as it lacks discernment. Glenn Beck, the proverbial creator of this site, has no problem with Halloween, are you going to stop using this site or watching/listening to him…doubt it. You may want to seek a deeper understanding of the world if you are stuck on the offensive of people judging others. You may want to let off some steam…
Report Post »garyM
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:45pmThere is nothing in God’s Word giving instruction on Halloween that I know of, therefore it has nothing to do with the Christian life, especially, “trick or treat” Even if there were things that specifically spoke to not observing Halloween, most so-called Christians would not pay any attention to the scriptures anyway. With as much instruction as there is in the Bible that are ignored by today’s church goers anyway, see my point?.Most of America that call themselves christians with a little c does what is right in their own eyes and they could care less what the Bible says. Not good!
Report Post »SageInWaiting
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:00pmActually, there is a lot of scripture, at least about calling the basic historical tenets of Samein and what is “celebrated” (witches/sorcerers, ghosts, demons and the possessed, vampires, etc) abominations (see my earlier post – touch on only a few). Consider the roots of “trick or treat” – when the druids came to your door on this night carrying there carved turnips, if no offering was left them – the treat – they placed a curse on the household. Is THIS the tradition you what to remember in these parties? No me, thanks.
Report Post »Larry Sheldon
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:43pmI should have worded that a little differently, but I certainly don’t see anything wrong with mocking he Devil and his minions.
Report Post »Rowgue
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:42pmHalloween is not a Pagan holiday and it doesn’t represent anything satanic. The halloween that we celebrate in today’s society comes from the Irish traditions of trick or treating and putting out jack-o-lanterns, neither of which are derived from some kind of satanic or pagan rituals.
The pagans and satanic types just co-opted halloween because it gives them a convenient excuse to flaunt their freakishness.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:42pmShould they participate? Sure, if they want to.
Should they -not- participate for religious reasons? Only if they’re fundamentalists.
I‘m infinitely more likely to not participate because I’m busy with life and don’t expect trick-or-treaters in my neighborhood than because I have religious reservations. I celebrate New Years’ Eve with family and friends; should I give up on that too because it’s not Christian? I sure don’t think so; holidays are just an excuse for fun, and I don’t recall there being a commandment that said “Thou Shalt Be Unhappy and Boring All of Thy Days.”
But hey, if you feel that way, there‘s always the Jehovah’s Witnesses!
Report Post »Solzhenitsin
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:05pmActually, a lot of ‘fundamentalists’ have Harvest party alternatives. Just not the ones who think Christ can’t transform culture.
Report Post »jpward001
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:41pmHad to post on this one. @Kaoscontrol I so agree, I want to file a law suite to get halloween out of public schools, banks, stores and other areas. I find it offensive and it is a violation of my god (little g on purpose) given rights not to be offended by what others want to do. You wan to celebrate that is fine but not out in public. You want to be gay fine but don’t make me watch you shove your GAYness in my face with your gay pride parade. The left is so off the mark and it should stop if we have to file law suitest to make it happen.
Report Post »Larry Sheldon
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:41pmSince none of those things exist (except the Holy Ghost), why not?
Lots better than the Unicorn thing we have going on.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:51pmAre you sure there are no such thing as demons? Nor angels? Spirits of the dead? I feel your words are a bit poorly chosen. Sure, the Holy Spirit exists, but there are many other “supernatural” entities discussed in the Bible. And that doesn’t even touch the theological conundrum of “if you can’t disprove it, how do you know it doesn’t exist?”
Besides Spiderman, of course. Pretty sure he’s fake.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:24pm“Besides Spiderman, of course. Pretty sure he’s fake.”
WHAT????? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Report Post »IslandMama
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:38pmI really like the Fall Festival idea that our former church did (we moved). It was a big almost block party type of thing with bounce houses and slides, face painting and candy – as well as Christian storytelling as you moved through the lines to get your face painted or your bead bracelet made, etc. It was a great alternative and I think the kids enjoyed it as much as traditional trick or treating. As a Christian mom, I struggle with this one. My husband and I both participated in Halloween growing up and we are devoted Christians today – no harm done. So we have decided to allow our kids to participate in Halloween but NOT to wear demonic or ghoulish garb. Any costumes they wear have positive connotations that do not poke fun at or embrace anything evil.
Report Post »SageInWaiting
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:37pmThere’s a GREAT alternative: Sukkot – the Feast of Tabernacles. Spread your Harvest Festival out over a week. We did with a bunch of friends from around the country…. was a wonderful time!
Report Post »Jennifer_D
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:52pm@Sageinwaiting
Thank you for the idea of Sukkot. I am going to check into it because it sounds really interesting. I have heard of it, but don’t know much about it. Is anyone allowed to participate?
Report Post »sillyfreshness
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:38pmIf the Catholic Church didn’t do away with it 1500 years ago, then it’s good to go. They wiped out most every pagan holiday over the past 1500 years except Halloween. So if it’s still around in modern times, you can celebrate it.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:40pmAnd Christmas.
And Easter (heck dude, the name “Easter” is from the old Anglo-Saxon name for the goddess of fertility and spring, Oester)
Report Post »MASTER YODA
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:02pmCatholics are NOT the standard bearers of the Christian faith. The early Christian church predates the catholic church by hundreds of years. I don’t pray to dead humans (catholic saints), I have a relationship with the creator of all things, the one true God, the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob, the Great I Am.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:12pmMASTER YODA
Report Post »Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:02pm
Catholics are NOT the standard bearers of the Christian faith. The early Christian church predates the catholic church by hundreds of years. I don’t pray to dead humans (catholic saints), I have a relationship with the creator of all things, the one true God, the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob, the Great I Am.
_____________________________
Given that the Catholc Church was founded by St. Peter, I am callng BS on your “facts”. But, then again, from your posts you are just another funless Fundie.
SageInWaiting
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:34pmThe council of Nicaea in 425 AD changed the direction of Christianity. Prior to it, and Constantin’s decrees, Christianity was seen as a sect of Judaism, worshiping on Shabbat and celebrating the feasts as other Jews. The pagan feasts were adopted and “Christianized” (Ishtar, The Feast of Tamus, etc) by the Roman decree and we’ve been on different paths since. Due to Constantin’s decree of separation, thousands where killed who refused to leave their roots and with it, much of the miraculous power described in Acts has left the gentile church. Deut 28 lists the blessings and curses in _our lives_ for keeping Torah. Jesus did what Torah could not – provide the perfect sin sacrifice the gives eternal life to those who accept it (which is EVERYTHING). But when Torah says that feasts or actions are to be performed as an ETERNAL covenant, to be performed “throughout your generations” and if Christians are “grafted in” to the Olive Tree and adopted as Children of Abraham…. shouldn’t we? Maybe then, obeying God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Christ (Rev 12:17), we will finally “do even greater works” than Christ.
Report Post »OutOnTheTiles
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:50pm@ Encinom
Actually, Christ’s Church was founded by Christ. Peter along with the other Apostles were called to proclaim the Gospel of Christ, not the gospel of Peter.
Report Post »REBELWITHACAUSE
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 1:50pmMost Catholics will believe ’til the day they die that they are the one and only true religion, forgetting that Christ started “the church”… the one and only true church. The first “pope”(if you want to call him that… he ordained himself a Pope) was Simon Magus who was baptized by God’s apostle, but Peter saw through his wickedness and hands were never laid upon his head, so Simon Magus never received God’s holy spirit. Simon Magus knew that God‘s holy spirit was needed in order to eventually be in God’s kingdom. So, he tried to purchase it. Do some digging into this Simon Magus. He would eventually start what God considered the Babylonian Mystery Religion.. this would eventually develop into what is now Catholicism. What’s crazy is, many Catholics don’t even know this. There IS ‘one true church’… the one chuch that Christ started Himself, and it is still being led by Christ today with His followers keeping His laws, His Sabbath, His Holy Days… for Christ IS the head, and it will be those who, out of the body of HIS church, overcome Satan (sin), and are counted worthy to escape the soon coming Tribulation and will be changed to spirit beings and will marry Christ upon His return and will help Christ STOP mankind from annihilating himself from the planet and will remove that great deceiver, Satan. There is a harlot woman(a church) mentioned in Revelation 17… GOD IS REVEALING HER TO YOU. WAKE UP!!!!
Report Post »This_Individual
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:36pmEvery individual has the choice whether or not to celebrate Halloween in the manner they wish.
Report Post »Mtroom
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:58pmNever realized how some people look at things….This is a joke…”Who’s holiday should i support?”…See i know my faith..It’s been with me for along time …If I see someone celebrating something that makes them happy and a good person…Than so be it …I’m happy for them…I don‘t piss’n moan over who’s holiday it is..Don’t care..Take a day off with the kids..My faith is not shaken because my neighbor celibates any holiday he wants…I don‘t go run to my congressmen and call foul because he’s Jewish/Muslim or Christian ..Be strong in your faith…If giving a kid a piece of candy to a child dressed as a witch shakes your faith…You really need some help…Burger Mister Misterburger I tell ya…Let the kids have some fun on any Holiday….What is wrong with that?
Report Post »This_Individual
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 8:18pmI feel ya. I’m not Christian, but I appreciate the sentiment whenever a person wishes me a “Merry Christmas”. I know that doing this does not shake my own beliefs, in fact it makes me feel stronger in that my fellow human being just offered me peace instead of hate. This is from neighbors who know that I am not of their faith, and know that this polytheist respects their God and religion.
Report Post »Gravejoke
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 12:15pmSANITY at last. Thank you! Reading the posts that came before was taxing.
Report Post »shades01
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:36pmIf your Christian faith is so weak it can be shaken by a fun holiday for kids – regardless of its origins – then I think you need to take a hard look at yourself and your walk with GOD.
Report Post »thlibo hodos
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:08pmWhich faith walk is really weaker?
Report Post »1. The one who obeys Jehovah after He has declared how he wants to be worshiped. The Lords feasts. (”don’t even ask how they (pagans) worship their gods”)
2. The one who decides for himself how Jehovah will be worshiped. (according to his own rules of life or fun) Jesus said many will call him Lord, but few will he know. That’s because of obedience. “These are they who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” (Rev.)
aalaokaua
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 5:57pmComment on this part of your reply….
” The one who decides for himself how Jehovah will be worshiped. (according to his own rules of life or fun) Jesus said many will call him Lord, but few will he know. That’s because of obedience. “These are they who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” (Rev.)
The part where you error is when you stopped quoting the Bible and began to insert why it is He wont know them. You do not get to know a person by them simply obeying you. You get to kow someone because you walk and talk with them – you have a relationship and communicate regularly with them. Obedience comes as a result of love and respect. Using a title such as “lord” when you addresss omeone is not at all “knowing” someone. Those who call on Him but He does not know… are those who think they do it right because they “obey a set of rules” but what he wants is RELATIONSHIP = to KNOW YOU (and this means Jesus not just Jehovah)
Report Post »webpreacher
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 7:01am@ SHADES01, Just who do you think you are telling THE “FAITHFUL” Followers of Christ that their faith is weak, because they refused to be part of a worldly vile holiday? Those who reject the “ways” of the world are being “OBEDIENT” to Christ, they are being Faithful in Obedience, to follow HIS will and not their own. It is just the opposite, they are STRONG in the LORD, steadfast in their Faith, having a desire rather to please LORD Jesus with being determined to NOT walk in the ways of this present evil world. Who have chose NOT to cave in to the flesh & the pressure of “Society” to conform to the ways of this world, & its “RITIUALS”. Shame on you for pointing a evil finger at the Faithful Servants of Christ, who stood firm against the wiles of Satan and his devices (Halloween) , who is the Prince of this present evil world. Seems to me your faith might be a little “SHADY” to say the least? I will ask you this, where in the Bible to we find Jesus, & HIS disciples, engaging in any of the “worldly celebrations” or “holidays”?
Romans 12, verse 1, “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies (lives) a living sacrifice, ‘holy’, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service”.
verse 2, “And be NOT conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God”.
Friend, you have to be strong to be a “FOLLOWER
Report Post »Raven249
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:36pmlol I likes my chocolate. I rarely get any as it is, so I’m quite happy to celebrate Halloween. Ain‘t like I’m for evil, anyway. Although, about that poll, where the heck is it?
Report Post »types_zane
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:35pmI do not celebrate this day, nor do I plan on my children partaking in celebrations on this day. I have recently come to the belief that if it is of no use, no redeemable value, or has any kind of negative influence, why waste my time on it. So for those that say it is harmless, I ask what, good does it bring to your month? My children and I will be content watching a movie, eating all the candy they want (bought by me so I don’t have to “scan” all the candy for any ingrates attempt at making my children sick), and enjoying “family time” on this particular day.
Besides, how come we can celebrate this “benign” pagan inspired holiday but how dare Christians want to participate in Christmas or Easter… The double standard is so blazingly obvious, WAKE UP AMERICA!
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:45pmSo to heck with the fun with your neighbors and community.
By the way, Christmas and Easter are both from previously pagan holidays. Look it up. Jesus was born in the spring time, not December, Christmas was placed by the Church on the big festivals of the pagans to co-opt them (winter fests, the Germanic ones that involed presents under tries, feasting, presents…you know). Easter is from the old German paganism, Oester being the goddess it’s named after, and bunnies, wow, big scandinavian fertility symbol there guy.
Do as you will though, we’re all free to choose. But let’s not pretend that Halloween (Holy Evening, a bastardization of Scots english) is something alien to the Church. No, it was fully co-opted just like the others, All Saints Day, All Souls Day being the substitutes (or in Mexico, the Day of the Dead, Dia de los Muertos).
Mtroom
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:12pmBoy,…Do you even go outside?…Do you know your neighbors? See, I know all of mine…And I don’t have to scan the candy they give my daughter…I made it a point to talk with all my neighbors…Get to know them…That’s the point…Go door to door with you child and meet the neighbors…That is truly missing in America… Go to work/school, come home, close the front door and hibernate til ya do it all over again…You might call it a Pagan holiday…But I can be perty sure your kid sees the candy…Find out what is around if nothing else….Find the houses to look out for, the ones your child can run to in an emergency…Become part of the neighborhood…Look beyond the label of the day…Jeez
Report Post »types_zane
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:12pmCorrect, they are “Made up days” but the celebration behind them and the reason for reflecting on those particular days has a substantive meaning. Again I was just saying that my family will not participate in this day because of its evil heritage. As far as spending time with my community, I prefer my volunteer work to certain ministries (namely Meals on Wheels & 9/12 group) to be much more fulfilling than walking around the neighbor hood wearing a costume. Halloween was different when I was a child, and society as a whole has degenerated from what it used to be… I remember when I was a young child my parents did not need to “scan” my candy for drugs/dangerous paraphernalia, I didn’t have to worry about my candy being taken, and it was more of a kids holiday. If you and yours to celebrate, please be safe.
Report Post »types_zane
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:25pmAnd I absolutely love the belittlement that you two have shown towards me, I voiced my opinion… IT’S MY OPIONON… If you don’t like it pound sand, if you think I am incorrect then we certainly can engage in a respectful dialog but making comments judging what you preserve as my interaction with the community and my character are wholly inappropriate. In both of my posts I never once said you were wrong but that my family would not participate. I know my neighbors, I fix there cars & computers, I go to he range with the LEO next door, I give one of my autistic neighbors rides to work on days the weather is bad, and I volunteer 2 hours of every week to Meals on Wheels; but I also am not oblivious to the type of people that are in every city. I live in San Antonio, a large city, where I can not know every person in my neighborhood. So please, engage on the topic and not on a prejudice you have formed of me or my opinions.
Report Post »types_zane
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 3:34pmAs far as I am concerned Ghost, the celebration of Christmas & Easter in my house are not pagan holidays, they are Christian holidays, the birth/crucifixion/resurrection of Jesus. I don’t care what pagans did, or the history of how the celebration started, but what it is today when my family celebrates it. Halloween has no redeemable value to me or my family, that’s my opinion… Halloween’s message has not been adobted for any positive cause and IMHO is an evil celebration, always has been and always will be… Refer to sageinwaiting post… But great wiki search for history of the holidays you referenced.
Report Post »types_zane
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:43pmWell put…Florida
Report Post »reddreads
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:19pmThe poisonous candy is largely an urban myth. The only kids who were ever harmed were the ones whose parents did it to them.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:34pmAll Hallow’s Eve. Hallow = holy, sanctified, consecrated. The eve of all holies.
It’s a continuation of the Irish/Scottish celebration of the end of summer/harvest, in preparation of winter coming. The dressing up and begging originates from the “souling”, or begging from door to door for food in exchange for prayers from the beggar, usually in disguise (also an Irish/Scottish tradition). Something that also happens/happened on Christmas eve, by the way, sans the costume. Heck, Christmas eve would see your home being visited by an imp of evil, looking for bad girls and boys, or by father Christmas looking for good girls and boys (father Christmas being of course the Christian saint Nicholas).
If the highly religious Irish are all for something like this in their Christian practice, I’m good with it as well. Not talking papacy, rather, the customs and traditions of the folk.
In short, it’s harmless, and also tied directly to the “All Souls Day” (hint, they’re dead), another Christian custom. Relax, life is becoming so unfun and PC that we should celebrate things like this. Read history before you read “the devil” into everything, I say.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:40pmWell said. Agree 100%.
Report Post »capecodsully
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:50pmOK GHOST guy, we’ll take your word for it. I might be reading between the lines here, but are you saying that since I’m Irish I should be washing these snickers bars down with some Irish whiskey?
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:52pmAlso, All Souls Day used to be on May 13 but the Church moved it to Nov. 1 as a way to try to co-opt Halloween.
.
Report Post »just slap me
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:33pmNope. We shouldn’t.
BTW, where is the poll ?????
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:45pmIn my experience, the so-called christians that get all uppity and in your face about how you should not celebrate halloween tend to be the most arse backwards dimwits I have ever met in my life. They tend to be uptight, rigidity only surpassed by their own backwards superstitions.
And I am not calling true Christians superstitious. True Christians use wisdom, justice, common sense, take a neighborly stroll amongst themselves and this world without getting bogged down by nit-wittery and childish reasoning.
Halloween is less paganistic than the many pagan traditions that we have adopted regarding December 25th as Christmas, along with all the traditional beliefs we typically associate with it.
Report Post »capecodsully
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:33pmI personally do not celebrate Halloween, but I think each Christian can decide for themselves. I’ll never stop watching “It’s the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown”.
Report Post »Kaoscontrol
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:33pmWhy do the pubic schools refuse to allow any holiday celebration for Christmas, yet are fine with Halloween decorations and parties? Both are “religious” holidays…the first is a Christian holiday, the second is a Pagan holiday. Where’s all the “Church and State Seperation-ists’ on Pagan celebrations?
Report Post »The double standard is amazing.
GhostOfJefferson
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:48pmWell, no, they’re both pagan in origin, and both co-opted by Christianity. I’m not putting this down, I think it’s fine, the Christians had a bit of an uphill battle getting pagans to convert, so they co-opted a lot of holidays, feasts and festivals from the pagans in order to be accepted, then converted them wholly to Christian ends over time. It was a smart move. But let’s all do study our history, very, very few of our holidays DON’T have pagan origins, our culture is predominantly European in origin, and thus we have a lot of the “old” lurking under the “new”. Shame our education system hasn’t kept up.
Report Post »Solzhenitsin
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:25pmChristmas was not a co-opting of Saturnalia, but an alternative. Epiphany was the earliest Christian holiday and it marked the arrival of the wise men to Bethlehem. What better timing for a day to commemorate Christ’s birth, the light coming into the dark world, than just after the winter solstice, just before Epiphany and as a stark contrast to the revelries of Saturnalia?
Report Post »As the gospel went throughout Europe, old customs were repurposed, some better than others, but all with the goal of bringing all things into obedience to the gospel. All Hallows’ Eve and All Saints Day were created for this reason as a contrast to Samhain and other celebrations where it was believed that the souls of the dead other denizens of the underworld came out for one wild night.
This never worked as well as Christmas did in displacing the pagan holidays since Halloween still retains so much about it which is stubbornly pagan. Harvest Parties say by their existence that something is wrong with Halloween; vindicate those things which are worthwhile enjoying while creating an opportunity to share the good news of salvation from evil, darkness and death through Jesus Christ.
AnAppealToGod
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:27pmShouldn’t we encourage celebrating Halloween? All the joy, love and fun we bring to a debatable pagan holiday? Seems like we’re doing Halloween a good thing by celebrating it the way we do.
Report Post »mcmeador
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:24pmWhere’s the poll?
Report Post »shirelover
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:22pmI ignore this date, it is monday, the last day of October.
Report Post »pap pap
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 2:22pmI’m a christian and I think halloween is just a lot of fun so get over it.
Report Post »66 bronco
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:09pmSo can premarital sex, drugs, and alcohol but it doesn’t make right either! “Just a lot of fun” is a lame excuse!
Report Post »JustJerry
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 4:49pm@66 bronco
“So can premarital sex, drugs, and alcohol but it doesn’t make right either! “Just a lot of fun” is a lame excuse!”
I don’t think alcohol is fun, but the first two I’m all in.
Report Post »DTOM_Jericho (Creator vindicator)
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 6:36pmWhat is “premarital sex”? In Scripture sex IS marriage. A blood covenant. You don’t think that because a man says some magic words you are married do you? You know that whole “power vested in me” crap is a license given by the local government, right? You don’t go to seminary school and graduate with the ability to perform marriages. It’s simply a social, tax, government thing.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 8:50pm@66 bronco
So what are you doing on the internet with the rest of us twisted pagans?
“The internet is for p***.” –Trekkie Monster
Report Post »webpreacher
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:37pmSatan, the Devil, takes great delight in “christians” (so called) celebrating what is nothing short of wickedness. Halloween is the celebration of death & darkness, all over the world the church of Satan worship the Devil with sacrificing animals, drinking blood and reciting Satanic incantation of death. There are even human sacrifices made in some places like Haiti, Mexico, Africa and many other, anyone taking part in this celebration in any way, shape or form is in agreement with what Satan is doing, like it or not, that is the facts…Period !
Report Post »1 John 2: verse15, “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him”k. v.16 “For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is NOT of the Father, but IS of the world”.
Romans 12, verse 2 “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God”.
John 17, (this is the LORD’S Prayer), verse 16, “They (followers of Christ) are NOT of the world, even as I am not of the world”. verse 17, Sanctify them (set apart, separate) trough thy truth: they word is truth”.
Christians, (followers of Christ), are to separate themselves from the WAYS of the world, the things of the world, the love of the world, but are to be a living sacrifice (a surrendering) for the LORD God’s will.
http://www.GodSai
Pontiac
Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:58pm@webpreacher
Report Post »-And not a single mind was changed that day.-
-The End.-
webpreacher
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 8:24am@ PAP PAP, Just a lot of fun you say (think), No, its so much more than that, it is Satanic in nature, that is to say, all over the world the “church of Satan”, engage in animal sacrifices in a “religious” ceremonial worshiping of the Devil. In some places of this present evil world, there are also “human” sacrifices made to Lucifer, the Devil, and the drinking of their blood, poured out over a Satanic alter in giving honor to Satan. Lots of fun to those poor individuals, who not only had to endure the torture & suffering in the hands of evil demonic worshippers of Satan, but also now, are in the very Flames of Hell,, yea lots of fun and good times ?
Halloween, the church of Satan’s “un-holy” day of worship,,, yea go ahead take part in this “celebration”, have your “Fun”… in the flesh !!!!
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on November 1, 2011 at 10:40amwebpreacher can’t differentiate between people having a cosplay party vs deranged religious ceremonies practiced by fanatics not unlike himself. Clearly an emotionally scared individual.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween
Report Post »guntotinsquaw
Posted on November 2, 2011 at 12:35am@Webpreacher…a quote from the leader of the Satanic Church…”Satanists do not believe in the supernatural, in neither God nor the Devil. To the Satanist, he is his own God. Satan is a symbol of Man living as his prideful, carnal nature dictates. The reality behind Satan is simply the dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things. Satan is not a conscious entity to be worshipped, rather a reservoir of power inside each human to be tapped at will. Thus any concept of sacrifice is rejected as a Christian aberration—in Satanism there’s no deity to which one can sacrifice.”
Know the one you call enemy.
Report Post »