Small California City With Large Seventh-Day Adventist Population Fights McDonald’s Opening
- Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:17pm by
Christopher Santarelli
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For many residents in a Californian city with a devout Seventh-Day Adventist population and overall healthy lifestyle, seeing their kids eat a happy meal will not make them smile.
Just a little more than five miles away from McDonald’s hometown of San Bernardino sits Loma Linda, California, arguably the healthiest city in America. Community members want to keep it that way, as they are strongly opposing the infiltration of the county’s largest fast-food chain into their community, which the city council approved this past December.
ABC News reports that when the issue of a McDonald’s franchise coming to Loma Linda was brought before the city council, outraged residents and health professionals packed the meeting room “as if a nuclear waste dump, and not a fast food chain, was coming to town.”
The city’s 50 percent Seventh-Day Adventist population can partially explain the health-conscious attitude, as the religion strongly encourages followers to abide by a vegetarian or vegan diet, as well as an alcohol, tobacco and caffeine-free lifestyle.
“In Corinthians, Paul speaking of the human body says specifically, ‘you are the temple of the Holy spirit,’” explains Loma Linda University Church Pastor Randy Roberts to ABC News. “Therefore, he says, whatever you do in your body, you do it to the honor, the glory and the praise of God.”
Loma Linda Patch reports that about 50 people, a majority of them from the city’s large medical community anchored by the Seventh-Day Adventist affiliated Loma Linda University Medical Center, have protested to the city council that welcoming a McDonald‘s will tarnish the city’s reputation by allowing the chain associated with obesity and poor nutrition to enter their city. The Loma Linda Patch notes that while the city council would prefer to not introduce unhealthy elements into their community, Loma Linda is in need of a commercial center to bring revenue to the city. Mayor Rhodes Rigsby, a Seventh-Day Adventist and a physician himself, tells ABC news that he has the desire to promote health but not at the sacrifice of individual choice.
“I don‘t think it’s the government’s responsibility, personally, to legislate vegetarianism; I think if everyone became a vegetarian they would probably have a healthier life, but it has to be their choice,” he said.
“I would hate to go to a town where vegetables are outlawed because the majority are meat and potato carnivores,” he continued, “to me that doesn’t make sense either way; I think people should have options.”
Opponents to McDonald‘s say that they don’t want to outlaw indulgences, but do everything they can to maintain a healthy environment.
“We know from research that if a school is near a fast-food restaurant, the kids there are more likely to be obese,” Wayne Dysinger, a physcian and public health professor leading the local charge against McDonald’s, told The New York Times. “We will never eliminate unhealthy choices, and pretty much everyone has an unhealthy treat once in a while. I am going to drive by that intersection every day and it’s fairly likely that they will say ‘Oh Daddy, can we stop there’ more often. Why do we need to encourage that?”
While McDonald‘s may be the first franchise that comes to one’s mind when thinking of fast food, it is not the only place with a drive-thru window or dollar menu. In fact, with or without McDonalds, there are plenty of intersections for children to beg their parents for unhealthy food as the city already has a KFC, Del Taco, Weinerschnitzel, Baker’s Burger, and Carl’s Jr.
McDonald’s corporate has responded to the growing controversy about a development of one of their restaurants in Loma Linda, saying in a statement to ABC News:
“We have been working hard over the past several years to ensure we have options on our menu to meet a variety of dietary needs. For example, our line of Premium Salads can be ordered without meat. We also have other offerings including Apple Slices, Oatmeal and Fruit and Yogurt Parfaits as well as a variety of portion sizes… McDonald’s and our franchisee look forward to working with the Loma Linda City Council and residents to hopefully address any questions or concerns. We believe the new restaurant will support the Loma Linda community with a contemporary dining experience and help fuel economic growth.”
We all know that the ‘Nanny-State’ accusation comes quick when criticizing the federal government or politicians for slamming fast food businesses rather than individuals making their own decision to “super size,” but is this case different? Is it a community’s right to come together and prohibit a business if a majority of citizens believe that it brings unhealthy elements into their environment? Or should the government stay out of business and rely on capitalism to prevail, wherein if the community really doesn‘t want a McDonald’s, no one will go there and it won’t stay in business very long anyway.
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Comments (271)
PedalGirl
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 9:21pmFirst, it said 50% are SDA… what about the other 50%? They have to live by the SDA rules? Second, if they already have KFC, Del Taco, Weinerschnitzel, Baker’s Burger, and Carl’s Jr. …. is a McDonald’s really gonna make any difference?
Report Post »Baddoggy
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 9:41pmThis is what Democracy looks like…MOB RULES.
Report Post »the_ancient
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 10:45pmThe Collective is far more important than Private Property Rights, Personal Freedom, or Liberty
If 50.000000000001% of the population says no McD’s. then NO McD’s for you….
Report Post »PedalGirl
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 12:06pmThere’s got to be more to this than just we want to keep bad foods out of our town… all I’m saying. I seem to remember one February where I was going from the race track in Fontana to the Casino (GASP!) in Cabazon …. traffic all backed up… had to use the restroom. Got off in Loma Linda and went to the Weinerschnitzel and (GASP!) ended up getting a burger and fries!! So the SDA objections to McDonalds seems contrived and makes absolutely no sense.
Report Post »Doctor Nordo
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 7:23pmIf they are really opposed to the store opening that much, then just don’t buy food from there! If there really is a 50% population of SDA’s, and they are universally opposed to McDonald’s, then withholding all business would put a huge strain on the ability of the store to remain in operation. Conversely, if the McDonald’s is able to keep its doors open then there is obviously enough of a demand to warrant it being there.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:53pmIf you read te abc article it says they fought the weinerscjbitz too.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:31pmAlso, if you read the article, the 50% of Adventists aren’t all in agreement. Many such as the Mayor actually support the McDs,coming into the town. Those think its not their business to stop free trade…
Report Post »pattybbb1
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:43pmIs this a 10th Amendment issue?
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:59pmIt’s a local issue, limited to a community… so ya, I think it would fall under State constitution issue at the most…
Report Post »boundforglory
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 12:43amWhat most people dont know is that mickey-d’s serves halal foods. Halal is where they chant some crap about false gods or idols over the food at processing plants. According to the bible, you are not to eat foods that are offered up to idols or false gods, and that is what halal is. Its a muslim ritual to offer their foods up to false gods or idols. Mickey-d’s sells halal foods!
Report Post »Mel632
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 12:53amWe are not supposed to be a Democracy, we are a Republic.
Report Post »ShawnB
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 1:22amWait I lived there and it also deals with the small businesses. They would rather have a mom and pop stores without wallmarts and everything else that would destroy there community. Its a nice town with jobs the rest of the inland empire has tons of McDonalds like less than 2 miles away. Let the city itself decide because once you start seeing fast food restraunts it drives away the mom and pop. Let a city have its freedom LIBS
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 3:00amIf they don‘t want Mickey D’s then put it on a ballot and vote. We did something similar here in my hometown not too long ago in which some people (for the sake of the passing Bonnaroo crowd… which only comes around once a year) wanted to sell liquor in our town. While people can already go to Applebee‘s and get a drink you can’t buy packaged liquor. Well it was put to a vote and our town said no, to which I am thankful. So if this is an issue then let the people of that community vote on it.
Report Post »Cat
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 10:00amThe city I live in has an area of Amish …
Yes there are men with beards, straw hats and suspenders, women in bonnets and solid color full-length dresses, and bicycles are used for transportation
It doesn’t take long to figure out where the really good food is being prepared and offered to the citizens of the city
There is no McD’s in the area … it would go broke
BTW
Report Post »The insert add on the Blaze page is a woman holding a banana with the caption;
“#1 worst food to eat”
Good grief …
Komponist-ZAH
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 3:23pmIf a private company comes and finds a private individual willing to sell them land, and others willing to sell them materials and labor, what business is that of the city council or any other residents of the city/town? If you don’t like what that company sells, don’t buy it.
Report Post »pavepaws
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 3:55pmThey’re also working on banning outdoor smoking. This is one of Rush’s favorite towns.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 4:36pmYour correct. If there were no fast foods in Loma Linda, then the “healthy” lifestyle makes sense. Since fast foods are already there, what is the big point?
Report Post »abbygirl1994
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 9:21pmShame on them.. just because they don’t want McDonalds, doesn‘t mean others don’t.. not to mention travelers going through that only benefits the town?? I am shocked that a Christian would try to hamper others free agency?? Ahhh maybe they are Obama supporters, thats it! Lord help us!
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:09amI’ve never met a liberal Adventist, and I know a great number of them.
Report Post »But you, Abby , I know are liberal, and not in the least shy in putting both feet in your mouth, so to speak.
SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:57pmFascinating…
Sheila Jackson Lee is a crazy liberal, Democrat Adventist… You hear about her all the time… for all her inane shennangins… Her pro-abortion and pro-homosexual stance, does not fit what I know of the Adventist stances on those issues.
Roscoe Bartlett from Maryland is a conservative, Republican Adventist…., I haven’t heard much said about him… I don’t know what he stands for or his politics…
But I think it would be silly to think any politician accurately represents whatever ‘religion’ they claim to belong to… Most are so imbedded into the corrupt system, that for all I know they could be ‘morally bankrupt’… I want to know what they stand on, on the major issues, and how conservative, and if they support liberty and freeom…
Report Post »ShawnB
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 1:24am@Betterdays is right you are all acting like the democrats trying to control others. They have plenty of mom and pop stores that would be effected and I lived there. This could mean loss of Jobs. Plus there is a McDonalds next town over which is 2 miles
Report Post »gemmeri
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 9:11pmAren‘t there more important issues for these people to focus on other than whether or not McD’s comes to town? If the demand is not there, they will end up closing anyway, but I think there is a demand for cheap fast food & McD’s does NOT make one obese. That is an individual lifestyle choice or an undiagnosed medical problem. If one thinks the food is fattening there, then don’t eat it every single time one feels hungry. I can think of plenty of vegan dishes if eaten to excess would cause obesity just as quickly & if someone wants to splurge on something from McD’s, the calories can always be offset by activity. Dogma is not a way of life.
Report Post »MartyTr
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 9:00pmRomans 14:2, One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. The SDA have The Clear Word Bible that has over 160 adds, changes, deletes from the KJB. It has put their false prophet, Ellen G. Whites, writings in it. It denies the diety of Jesus Christ. They believe that Jesus was Michael, therefore they cannot believe in the trinity like they say they do. They also created investigative judgement, when Christ didn’t return in 1844 the made up this doctrine that said Jesus moved somewhere in heaven and he is still judging people. That denies His need for dying on the cross for our sins one time! They also had to invent soul sleep because of this. They say people don’t go to heaven or hell when they die. They believe that going to church on Sunday is the mark of the beast. The SDA church is a cult, they lie like all cults do. They have a false prophet like all cults do. They are interested in your money like all cults are. They have their own bible like all cults do.They are not Christians!!!!!
Report Post »P C BE DAMNED
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 9:19pmI left the Seventh day Adventists for many a reason but none of them were what you stated. As a matter of fact everything you have said is a falsehood and incorrect. You seem to be living in a fog. FOOL
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 9:41pm@P C BE DAMNED—-You say what MARTYTR posted is in “fact” false. Care to prove that?
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 11:10pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clear_Word
Hmm, its apparently not even endorsed by the Adventist church… even has its critics within the church. It‘s a ’paraphrase’, not actually a bible. Bible was removed from later printings.
The church itself uses King James Version, and apparently other main stream translations.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 11:19pmhttp://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/death.html
Heaven or Hell, or ‘death is final’?
There are verses to support both points of view…
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 11:22pm“he is still judging people”
You mean the “book of life”?
That kinda of thing is brought up in Revelations which is supposed to be ‘future prophecy’… isn’t it?
http://bible.cc/revelation/20-12.htm
“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.”
If the judgement was made at the cross, why is there nead for final judgement in the future?
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 11:26pmThe “Michael” = Christ thing? apparently that’s an early protestant viewpoint, and not something specific to Adventists…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_(archangel)
“Some early Protestant scholars identified Michael with the pre-incarnate Christ, basing their view, partly on the juxtaposition of the “child” and the archangel in Revelation 12, and partly on the attributes ascribed to him in Daniel.[38]”
Eschatology is fun… The various world denominations aren‘t all going to agree on all the ’fine points’.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 11:35pmDid you know that the Catholic Church, does not consider Adventists a cult, and instead a legitimate ‘protestant movement’? I suppose that does not mean much since in the past they considered all protestant movements to be ‘heratical cults’…
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/is-seventh-day-adventism-a-cult
Course some protestant denominations probably consider Catholics a cult based on their own interprations of the bible!
Adventists have been considered a legitimate protestant movement since the 1950‘s and 1960’s by many of the evangelical groups including Billy Graham. But of course there is division among the evangelical ranks as well.
Yep, eschatology is fun!
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:15am@MartyTR
Not all SDA use “Clear World Bible”;
SDA do believe Ellen White as a prophet
SDA believe in Jesus Christ
SDA believes Jesus is Michael (as do I and most early beliefs)
SDA believe Jesus Christ is the offering to God for man’s sin and just as the Jewish sacrifice offering, Jesus is moving thru the processions of being the offering to God on our behalf in Heaven.
SDA believe in 1844 that the Judement stage began
SDA believes in soul sleep (as do I and most early beliefs) {If you are in Heaven when Jesus comes back, who is He raising from the dead}
SDA believe the Catholic Church is the anti-Christ (as all Protestant leaders once believed) and the Mark of the 1st Beast (anti-Christ) is Sunday worship which will be enforced by a Protestant led 2nd beast, in which the Protestant‘s adopt 1st Beasts doctrine becoming an image of the 1st beast enforcing it’s mark. Sunday is considered the mark because the Sabbath is Saurday, the 7th day.
SDA believe in keeping God Law (Ten Commandments) and faith in Jesus Christ
I doubt SDA would want to be called “Christian” considering that began as a label for Catholic believers and SDA believe the Catholic Church is the anti-Christ.
SDA is a cult as much as any other Protestant Church would be a “cult”. Oddly, SDA holds the very doctrine most Protestant Churches use to hold, before adopting Catholic doctrine…Odd again is a lot of SDA left many of the above doctrine for Catholic Doctrine, including Sa
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:26am“I doubt SDA would want to be called “Christian” considering that began as a label for Catholic believers and SDA believe the Catholic Church is the anti-Christ.”
Adventists do lebel themselves “Christian” their own writings, btw. Ellen White, and other SDA periodicals, “Review’.
Adventists are not against ‘Christmas’ either. Did you know Ellen White, promoted the practice of the Christmas Tree decorating?
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:38am“SDA do believe Ellen White as a prophet”
This might vary to the individual? But I never get the impression that the Adventist church itself consider her writings, “greater than the bible”, in the same way that say Mormon’s consider the Book of Mormon, to be the Third Testament…
From her own writings; ““a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light” (Colporteur Ministry, p. 125).”
In other words, its a tool many find useful to help understand the bible, but it doesn’t replace the bible… Anymore than ‘devotional’/‘inspirational’/‘theology’ books written by other denominations pastors/reverands, etc are meant to ‘replace’ bible study itself.
Hell even Pat Robertson and Glenn Beck say God speaks to them personally! Was very common claim back in the mid 1800′s as well. Some may have been ‘real’/’sincere (truly believing they had the gift of the Holy Spirit)’, and others were clearly charlatains. At the same time there was a huge rise in spiritualism and satanism… People claiming to talk to the dead, and the devil! They had their followers as well…
Granted, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are legalistic individuals in the SDA church who lift up her writings higher than the bible… But I hardly think they represent everyone in the church.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:44am@SacredHonor
Howdy! Hope you are well!
I never knew Ellen White practiced that but I’m not real up to date on Ellen White either. I knew her general beliefs and beliefs of those who view her as a prophet. You have a link on that?
As for modern day SDA wanting to be labelled “Christian”, that does not surprise me. Many, many SDA members left SDA due to SDA leaving her doctrine and adopting Catholic doctrine they once preached against, including Sabbath day worship. Are you sure it was Ellen White quote saying she was “Christian” and not the author later on? I just find that odd from what I have studies. Could be wrong though.
I am not SDA but non-denominational. My faith does share some beliefs of the SDA but so did most Protestants once before. I like studying different faiths.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:00amOk, basically, even Ellen White labeled herself a ‘Christian”… One of the terms that came up in her writing, what little I’ve looked through myself, is the term “Christian living”… How to become a better christian.
Here are some of her comments concerning Christmas from the Whiteestate itself… Interesting place, you can find all or most of her writings there, even private letters.
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/Christmas.html
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/Christmas.html#A Christmas Tree 1
Interesting site, since you can search for specific topics, such as her use of the terms “Christian”, or “Christianity”.
Here is an example from Ministery of Healing one of her more ‘health minded’ books (to get back on the health topic);
http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mh/mh40.html
“The badge of Christianity is not an outward sign, not the wearing of a cross or a crown, but it is that which reveals the union of man with God. By the power of His grace manifested in the transformation of character the world is to be convinced that God has sent His Son as its Redeemer. No other influence that can surround the human soul has such power as the influence of an unselfish life. The strongest argument in favor of the gospel is a loving and lovable Christian.”-pg470
http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mh/mh.asp
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:06amMind you, her definition of ‘Christian’, is probably very different than the modern definition… More in line with most use of the term in the 1800′s by most protestant writers and beliefs of many denominations of that time.
Not necessarily the modern “Catholic’ definition. Nor would I suspect that all Adventists or other protestants take on the modern “Catholic’ definition.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:08amBTW, I would like to hear Snowleopard’s thoughts, he’s an Adventist chaplain apparently. He would have a better idea of the theology, and history more than likely.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:14am@SacredHonor
I agree with you on your second post but SDA do see Ellen White as a prophet. I‘m not saying it’s right or wrong but they do, just as Joseph Smith is viewed as a prophet and as the Pope is viewed as a Prophet in a sense.
I don‘t believe SDA hold her writings over the Bible or as the Bible but as a guide to their faith’s understanding of the Bible as you say.
To a degree “prophet” has been turned to be something bad, when it really is not if sincere. We all have gifts, last things Satan wants is us to use them. What you wrote in regards to this is spot on.
The few times I have read her writings I remember specifically a writing over future times that spoke about dairy and meats being contaminated for profits. It just struck me because today we do pump our cattle, dairy and commercial, full of steroids and all kinds of “enhancements”.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:30am“The few times I have read her writings I remember specifically a writing over future times that spoke about dairy and meats being contaminated for profits. It just struck me because today we do pump our cattle, dairy and commercial, full of steroids and all kinds of “enhancements”.
Well you might be able to hunt that up on the Whiteestate website… I vaguely remember what you are referring to… I think she was also talking about pollution ruining the environment as well would lead to disease and poisoned food supply.
Ok, found it (after a brief google search);
Report Post »http://www.gilead.net/egw/books/testimonies/Testimonies_for_the_Church_Volume_Seven/index.htm
SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:33amYou can find the dairy discussion under chapter 4 link… Part of the link was cut off.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:44amhttp://churchstate.org/index.php?id=187
Oh and you might find this interesting, I found this during some of my research… It’s basically a history of politics and Adventist church. Although its not quite this way as it was…
In many ways it was very Jeffersonian, and had classical liberal views. They were against the concept of parties… They saw the danger and corruption in the party systems even back then. They voted more on issues…
Other than Ellen White‘s ’prophecy’ that God told her to support prohibition, she pretty much tried to keep her hands out of government control. Except in cases of protecting individual religious liberty and right to be pacifists. They have been fighting that cause for years.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:54amOh, yes they also one of many other denoniminations at the time that were petitioning Lincoln to step in to end slavery, at a time Lincoln hadn’t yet even made that issue (he was more concerned with the states rights of ‘seccession’)… The brits were still supporting the south, etc…
That might be another example when they gave full support to federal binding mandates.
In recent times, I think they have supported the federal and state policies that, Marriage = 1 man + 1 Woman as well, like most Christian groups.
They continue to fight to ban ‘sunday blue laws’.
Though ironically, have also tried to defend their right to close down Federal post offices (entire weekend including Saturdays) and local adventist-owned businesses, in ‘primarily’ adventist towns. This was more to prevent ‘being forced’ to work on Saturdays. Only to have other members of the community complain, since they weren‘t getting ’weekend mail’, or had no place to shop…
I think that occured in Loma Linda too…
Report Post »Freedomluver
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:09am@Okie from Muskogee
Just wanted you to know that I really enjoy your posts, and you have a very good insight into the views of the SDA church.
I was born and raised in the faith, and over time I‘ve come to realise that many of Ellen White’s views were downright bazarre.
One never hears about the fact that she predicted the end of the world in 1856, when she was attending a conference and told the folks at that gathering that some would still be alive at the end.
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/btc/btc13.htm
In my view, based on the teaching of the Bible, that would make her a false prophet.
As one who has a lot of experience with the teachings of the SDA church, I find them to be quite legalistic, and in many cases some become downright fanatical.
Over time much of the guilt that that sect brought into my life has healed, and has allowed me to see the world in an entirely different light.
These days, I find my views regarding religion to be much more in line with the thoughts of Thomas Jefferson, and I’m much happier for it. :)
Anyway, based on their fears of “blue laws” and the like, it seems quite hypocritical that they would wish to foist their dietary choices on the community backed by the force of the state.
Report Post »P C BE DAMNED
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:53amBikeboy
Report Post »I don’t have to prove anything to you. Are you 12 years old. Find out for yourself. Do your own homework, I have. Then you can comment with knowledge. I can defeat anyone who gets their info from others. Go to the source.
4truth2all
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 12:34pmYo Okie:
Report Post »Hope you are doing well…in your post to MARTY 1/15@1:15 you state that you believe that Jesus is Michael… is this so ?
I have a neighbor friend that is SDV and she follows the OT teachings such as not eating pork. She would certainly say that she is a christian and from what I “know” of her I would agree. Though we probably disagree on the “truths” of God’s word, which I of course have more of then her.
Okie from Muskogee
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:06pm@FloridaCracker
Howdy my friend! Hope all is good with you.
I found many SDA to be good people. I’m non-denominational and we worship on the Sabbath. My faith and SDA have a lot in common especially around prophecy and doctrine. I’ve found SDA prophecy of “end” times to be spot on, as well as their understanding debunking the false 7 year theory claims. Keep the faith my friend and stay safe!
@FreedomLuver
Howdy! Hope you are having a good day. Like all denominations SDA have their “legalists” I’m sure. I don’t believe diet is part of salvation and is more of a guidance to better health.
As for White, I can’t say she was a false prophet, but one could say she falsely interpreted a few prophecy like the one you speak about. I’m not fully up to date on White but some of what I have studied she was correct, some others were not or misunderstood just as many, many Sunday preachers teach incorrect doctrine and prophecy today.
I appreciate the good conversation and thank you much. I hope you have a great day!
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:03pm@4Truth2All
Howdy bro!
I was raised “Michael” was an “Arch” Angel and never gave thought to Michael being Jesus. As I grew in my faith and began to honestly and openly study God’s Word I would say more likely Michael is Jesus. Simply break the translation down and what Michael means and one can very easily make the argument. What say you?
Stay safe!
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 4:35pmYo Okie:
Report Post »What say i … Jesus is God in the flesh, thus he is eternal. Angels are created.
We worship Jesus, we are told NOT to worship angels.
See Hebrews 1 & 2 …… peace in Muskogee
Okie from Muskogee
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 6:03pm@4Truth2All
I hear you man but I ask, in the beginning was it just God and the Holy Spirit, or was Jesus there? I say Jesus was there and they called Him “Michael” and thru translation breakdown it makes sense.
If Jesus is just God in the flesh, what will Jesus be in Heaven where flesh is not existent?
Jesus is head (chief) of all angels (messengers).
Translation
Michael = “who is like God”
Arch = “chief”
Angel = “messenger from God.”
Michael the Archangel is a messenger of God who is like unto God Himself.
Again, all I’m saying for Michael being Jesus is the argument is easily made and seems accurate.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 7:56pmYo Okie: You and I have a different take on Revelation as we have discussed before… I believe that Jesus comes back in the flesh and those saved are given heavenly bodies just as Jesus had a resurrected physical body. Now if you don‘t mind I’m off to McDonalds for some half cooked salmonella infested artery blocking burgers … peace .. don’t worry I always pray before I eat.
Report Post »snufy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 9:21pmIn that they claim the Sabbath to be on Saturday instead of Sunday is probably right. However, I have never heard of these other things you say they believe in. I used to date a lady that was the daughter of a SDA minister. They certainly were not vegetarians, as the mayor says he is. He made his daughter stop dating me, as he said that I was corrupting her, but that’s beside the point. :) Many medical journals say that vegans are sicklier and do not live as long as meat eaters because they don’t get the necessary nutrition. The Bible says that in the last days people will stop eating meat. Sounds to me like this is happening now.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:19pm@4truth2all
True, we differ on some things in Revelations but you didn’t answer my question in regards to if Jesus was around in the beginning or if it was only God and the Spirit. If you believe Jesus was there it can be argued Michael is Him.
I too believe Jesus will come back and His angels will reap the believers. Jesus, being in charge (chief) of the angels, sends His angels to gather us in the sky with Him as said in the good Book and we will receive our Heavenly bodies, not fleshy earthly bodies that breakdown over times corruption.
I don’t believe belief Michael is or is not Jesus affects salvation, only helps and stregthens understanding. I will say it is a very interesting topic to study if one likes to read up on that stuff.
I hope your McJunk sandwich is great! Ha ha! Thanks for the smiles and glad to see you dropped me a line. Stay safe bro!
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 1:17amOkie from Muskogee,
Good evening,
Regarding the question of Jesus Christ being Michael the Archangel.
Jude 9 Michael is called the “archangel” and then compare that term to how the apostle Paul says of Jesus;
1 Thess. 4:16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.
Interesting huh? The title “archangel” means “chief of the angels”. So it is not surprising that Revelation speaks of “Michael and HIS angels”. – 2 Thess.1:7, Matthew 24:30-31, 25:31
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 10:40amYo Okie:
I did say that Jesus was eternal in my first reply … ( I say this according to scripture)
As long as Jesus also being the “arch” angel not taking away His devine nature ( being God) … it is a thought I will pursue. I know that some say Melchizedek may be Jesus and there are other places as will that are said to be Jesus … I agree… it is interesting
Report Post »Bodies of Flesh … The scripture does not really detail what this is like so we “guess”. We know that we can be in the presence of God and see Him in His Full glory and live and that we are now everlasting as well … it is said that our cells are completely renewed every so many years … just like our outer skin turns to dust but is continually replaced. We should to some extent, not age .. it would be like completely replacing every piece on you’re car every two years.
Did Adam and Eve see God … we know that He “walked with them” in the garden. We’re we “created” without sin …eternal; before sin came into the world ? Even though our bodies are “ renewed” because of sin we still die …sin has “overridden” even this process …peace
DTOM_Jericho (Creator vindicator)
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 10:43am@Floridacracker
Sorry you went from Jew to “jesus”. Yeshua the Jewish Messiah, leading Jewish disciples and written of by Jews to Jews(first) is what you mean. “jesus” is the pagan image of the beast. The 2300 days prophecy which was about the Maccabees reclaiming on the Temple proves this. It’s not some secret changing of rooms in Heaven by “jesus” in 1844 which the only proof is “because we figured it out”.
As for the vegetarianism and “unhealthy” foods, that is easy to QUICKLY dispute. Unclean and unholy foods were written of, there is no “health message”. You think the priests being commanded to eat salted, fatty meats is about health? Really? Yeshua ate meat at LEAST once a year at Passover. It was Law. He also ate fish including AFTER He rose! After all the clean and unlearn are listed in Scripture, it clearly state the reason and it IS NOT HEALTH. Scripture say “I am holy” therefore you are holy. It says nothing about health(good, bad or indifferent). The ONLY reason are to eat what God says: because He said so.
SDA is still inside Babylon. They be at the gate, pointing the way out but they still fall short and are still a harlot daughter.
Shalom.
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 11:10amRevelation 12:7 – And war broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
Compare that description of Michael and his actions with how Revelation 19:11-16 describes the role of Jesus our King.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 2:40pm@4Truth2All
I hear you bro. Look at it from the opposite side though, one could argue we are taking away from Jesus by mistakingly calling “Michael” just an “arch angel”.
I may be mistaken but I thought the good Book said Man could not be in the presence of God? I’ll see if I can find that verse. Let me look into info on our Heavenly bodies to see what I can turn up and I’ll catch up in another post with you on that.
Like I said, I use to be like what you talking bout when some said Michael was Jesus but after openly researching I can see the argument and tend to agree with it. Cool stuff man. I appreciate you very much.
@BlackTooth
Very interesting stuff my friend. God is good!
Several verses mention Michael in a way one can see is not used just for an “angel”. As you said, the translation of “Michael” is a major indicator. I hope you are doing well. Stay safe!
@WhiteFang
Another great verse and spot on. Stay safe!
@DTOM
Report Post »Just wanted to say I hope all is well your way. Keep the faith!
13
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:59pmWhat is it on McDonald’s menu that is so bad. Beef? Chicken? Eggs? Bread? Lettuce? Apples? Cheese? Tomatoes? Apple juice? What? Oh, wait I know, people are mad because they copied Star buck’s coffee! Oh the blasphemy! And yogurt, and orange juice and PARFAIT! All pure evil. They must be stopped!
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 11:39pmMcDondalds has improved things a bit since the days of ‘Super Size Me’!
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:54pmExactly… What is the food that they condone for their Holy Temple of Self?
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:52pmHahahaha. Hey, chech it out: the Bible says you don’t let pigs prepare your food, and you don’t break bread with heathens.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:51pmThere are people who are getting served sperm in taste test lines at grocery stores, and can you imagine all the sperm people have eaten at restaurants?
lynda1276
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:49pmi don’t get it.. if you don’t want to eat there then………just don’t
Report Post »MartyTr
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 9:01pmThey are an authoratarian regime like all cults.
Report Post »P C BE DAMNED
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 9:30pmMarty
Report Post »He1l the Adventists believe they have the truth but they never taught that they were better than anybody. As a matter of fact they teach that there are true hearts that even worship Satan which will eventually come to God. The heart is what God judges. Now if you want a pitiful organization where you have to be in good standing with the Watchtower Society of New York City inc. then hook up with the Jehovah Witnesses. I live with one. So Sad a religion. Don’t challenge me I will cut you to pieces if I feel like it.
SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 3:45pmRomans 3:23: King James Version (KJV)
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:48pmLQQK check it out: in the 1980′s there were butt-loads of kids who spit in food, and can you imagine how many kids spit in food now? You’re a bunch of freaking idiots.
Report Post »13th Generation American
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:44pmThese religious fanatics are always trying to force their beliefs on people. If people want to eat crap and die they should be able to. This is America and our religious founders said that we are free to force our religious beliefs on anyone. Just because people are too dumb to realize what is good for them, our founders believed that we are free to make our own mistakes and force people to believe what we want them to.
Report Post »Baddoggy
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 9:43pm100% correct sir.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 11:41pmBy religious “Zealots” you also are throwing all other denominations under the bus as well? Including all Evangelicals? Muslims, Hindus, etc?
Or just Christians in general, or the Adventists?
Report Post »BigJTrucker
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:44pmGood Food, Good Meat, Good God, Let’s Eat.
Report Post »82dAirborne
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 9:58pmI’ll drive!
Report Post »welloddyfriggindah
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:44pmSpecial interests come in all sizes and flavors. Is personal responsibility this far gone?
Report Post »82dAirborne
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 10:01pmIn a word – YES!
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:43pmI spent all my teenage years working for fast-food restaurants, and you have eaten more boogers than you know.
Report Post »AmazingGrace8
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 8:46pmRemember….God is watching!!! Oops!
Report Post »13th Imam
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:40pmWell in all fairness , we can give the Vegans and Vegetarians one town. One. 1 Uno
Report Post »13
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:39pmFrench fries, Delicious. Will vegetarians eat potatoes cooked in vegetable oil or will the senseless slaughter of potatoes stop.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:32pmNo one is forcing anyone to eat at McDonalds .. or anywhere else. What’s the beef?
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:40pmYou mean “Where’s the beef.” That’s Hardees.
Report Post »82dAirborne
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 10:12pmI thought it was “Where’s the beef?” Or was that another awful fast food joint?……………..
Report Post »dontbotherme
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:32pmFries & strawberry milk shake. Yum!
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:38pmAnd it probably had a booger or two.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:31pmYou know, I worked for McD’s a long time ago. And it’s funny how a phone call always managed to come in before the health inspectors came so we could get rid of the buns that the mice ate the sesame seeds off of before they came to inspect.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:34pmAnd that’s not counting the hundreds of times I saw meat fall on the floor, and get put back on buns by the low life workers which were white by the way, and that doesn‘t count all the times I saw workers spit in the grease or the times I saw people steal from the Ronald McDonald’s house bin.
Report Post »13
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:28pmCheese burger, bread good, beef good, cheese good, pickle good, ketchup good, onion good, mustard good. Delicious!
Report Post »Mr.Fitnah
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:28pmMost towns in Alaska will not allow Mcdonalds.
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:03amThat’s because no one likes frozen fast food, lol.
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:28pm“nothing that goes into the man is bad for him, only that which proceeds out of his heart.” Jesus
Report Post »“Be not concerned for what you buy in the meat market…..” Paul
I used to belong to the richest SDA congregation in America, but as a born again Christian I felt a “burden” was added unto my faith when I joined, I moved on. I have a wondeful Sabath keeping church family today, and we are sola scriptura, bible living, non pretentious, and we don’t stumble each other over things like food.
P C BE DAMNED
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 9:22pmIf nothing that goes into a man defiles him then why don’t you eat rat poison. Lets see the defilement.
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 9:42pm@PC BE
“Thou shalt not tempt the Lord your GOD.“ ” thou shalt not put the Lord your GOD to the test.“ ”man does not live upon bread alone but upon every word which proceeds from the mouth of GOD.
And may GOD bless you exceedingly, abundantly, pressed down, refilled to overflowing. I pray he poles out such an abundant blessing upon you your storehouse can not contain it.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 11:38pm“I have a wondeful Sabath keeping church”
Please clarify? When speaking about ‘Sabbath’, that has different definitions to various denominations… For example SDA and Seventh Day Baptists, Jews, and other seventh day worshiping denominations view Saturday as ‘Sabbath’. I hear sunday worshipers call their day ‘Sabbath’ as well?
So which day do you choose as your sabbath?
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 12:32amSeventh Day Baptisit. I’ve been keeping the sabbath of GOD for nearly 15 years, mostly on my own.
Report Post »I didn‘t know for quite some time that there were sabbath keeping church’s after I discovered the day I thought was GODS day, was not. No one told me, I was show during a period of very intense scripture study. So I observed Saturday on my own, and went to a Sunday church to keep my fellowship alive with saved by grace believers lime I am. Several years ago the Lord brought my lil sis into salvation and she found the SDA folks, and I went for a few years. I’ve nothing against those folks, they just believe different than I do.
Thanks for asking.
SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 12:44amThank you, for answering! I meant no offense, in the question! Just curious.
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 12:57am@Sacredhonor
Report Post »None taken, shucks I didn‘t even take PC’s comment personally.
Did you know that a SDB pastor was the President of the continental congress, his name was Samual Ward. He went to his rest just before the signing of the declaration.
Blessings, and it’s been a pleasure chatting with you.
SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:20amGood to hear…! Blessings to you as well.
“non pretentious, and we don’t stumble each other over things like food.”
Unfortunately I think that’s a problem with any denomination or belief system (even among non-religious and Athiests!)… There are always judgmental people, who overlook their own ‘logs’, try to find flaws in others, and gossip/complain… It’s often over petty differences in beliefs.
At the same time there are good people among all belief systems, that understand Christ’s message not to judge others, and that the path is a personal one!
But then again at the same time the bible does discuss ‘rebuke’ other brethren…
http://www.openbible.info/topics/rebuking
The question comes down to when is it more than a loving rebuke, and passes into the realms of judgemental legalism, and gossip?
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:44am@SacredHonor
Report Post »Well we have Mathew 24 as a guideline, being tired I’m relying upon my memory so I hope I got the reference correct.
But mostly I think, if you love your brother and you know they are doing something they should not be doing, it is best to first be prayerful, secondly measure the weight of your friendship- are you very close, close-or Sunday go to meeting close. Knowing the level of intimacy dictates what you should do after praying about it I think. If it were my close brother, I would take him into my confidence if that is the leading I received from GOD, if not very close, I would need to be careful, not only should I be prayerful, but I should consider what my motivation truely is. But by all means follow Matt 24 if GOD leads you.
And there is a difference between descernment and judgement. Discernment is “that’s not good for me to be around” , judgement is when it escapes your lips to condem ( not biblicaly help ) another.
Me, I’ve got way to much that needs forgiving to carry a rock to use against others, and the Lord does tell me I shall be judged as I judge others.though sometimes my lips far exceed the speed of my intentions,
SacredHonor1776
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:51amGood post!
Report Post »P C BE DAMNED
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 12:03pmBETTERD My intention is not to harm or hurt anyone.If your house was on fire I might grab you screaming as you lie there and sleep so peaceful. Thank you for your kindness. You are so much better a christian than I. Dern it.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:25pmYou know what? I know Ray Crock, and he would be sadly disappointed in Mcd’s today.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:29pmWhat do you say: we kiss Husseins ass, and bus them in just so we can claim “Diversity?”
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:25pmWe all know Mcdonald‘s is the spawn of Satan and it must be stopped and letting the free market determine if an area wants a Mcdonald’s is even more demonic.LMAO
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 14, 2012 at 8:24pmWell why would they fight a McDonald’s opening? Is it because they use evil by using kids to sell products? Oh, imagine that!
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