Study: Big Economic Downturn Needed to Slow…Global Warming
- Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:45am by
Liz Klimas
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A new report from the University of Michigan starts off its press release with a not so optimistic phrase: “It’s a message no one wants to hear.” Just what message is this? That it would take an extreme economic downturn to slow the effects of global warming.
The research conducted by José Tapia Granados and Edward Ionides of U-M and Óscar Carpintero of the University of Valladolid in Spain is considered the first to assess fluctuations in carbon dioxide based on measurable levels, instead of less accurate carbon emission estimates.
“If ‘business as usual’ conditions continue, economic contractions the size of the Great Recession or even bigger will be needed to reduce atmospheric levels of CO₂,” Tapia Granados, a researcher at the U-M Institute for Social Research, said in a statement (via Science Daily).
Atmospheric CO2 (monthly average) as measured in air samples collected at Mauna Loa, Hawaii (Keeling curve) from Feburary 1958 to Februrary 2012. Units are parts per million by volume. Estimated preindustrial concentrations, at levels between 200 and 300 ppm, would be far out of the graph. (Image and caption: U of M/ Tapia Granados et al)
The research, published in the peer-reviewed journal Environmental Science and Policy, evaluated natural phenomena — volcanic eruptions and the El Niño Southern oscillation, which the release states are believed to impact CO2 levels — the world’s population, and the world economy based on worldwide GDP and their correlation with changes in atmospheric CO2 levels.
Here’s what they found:
Tapia Granados and colleagues found no observable relation between short-term growth of world population and CO₂ concentrations, and they show that recent incidents of volcanic activity coincided with global recessions, which brings into question the reductions in atmospheric CO₂ previously ascribed to these volcanic eruptions.
In years of above-trend world GDP, from 1958 to 2010, the researchers found greater increases in CO₂ concentrations. For each trillion in U.S. dollars that the world GDP deviates from trend, CO₂ levels deviate from trend about half a part per million, they found. Concentrations of CO₂ were estimated to be 200-300 ppm during preindustrial times. They are presently close to 400 ppm, and levels around 300 ppm are considered safe to keep a stable climate.
Annual growth of the world economic output (green line, trillions of 2000 US dollars) and annual change of estimated CO2 emissions (millions of Kt, black dots). Data on CO2 emisions for 2009 and 2010 were computed from preliminary estimates of carbon emissions obtained from the Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) of the US Department of Energy on March 2012. All other data from the World Bank (that takes estimates of CO2 emissions from the CDIC). (Image and caption: U of M/Tapia Granados et al)
Detroit’s CBS affiliate explains further, that since El Niño cannot be controlled by man, the “sole modifiable factor” is economic activity.
What is suggested to “break economic habits” that are contributing to the rise in this greenhouse gas and subsequent global warming according to the researchers are “enormous” economic changes. In addition, CBS reports Tapia Granados saying “[...] climate change will soon have a serious impact on the world, and the time is growing short to take corrective action.”
“One solution that has promise is a carbon tax levied on any activity producing CO₂ in order to create incentives to reduce emissions,” Tapia Granados said. “The money would be returned to the population on a per capita basis so the tax would not mean any extra fiscal burden.”
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Comments (145)
Master.Debater
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:34am“Concentrations of CO₂ WERE ESTIMATED to be 200-300 ppm during preindustrial times.”
Estimated by who? How on the planet can anyone make a useful estimation of CO2 levels at a time hundreds of years before there was any measurement of CO2 levels? This is all politically motivated conjecture.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:27pmhave you ever heard of this thing called “Science”? they have lots of ways of figuring things out that your puny brain can’t comprehend. in this case (probably), they measure atmospheric CO2 levels by drilling in polar ice and taking slices of it to conduct measurements. watch a Science program sometime. ugh!
Report Post »tzion
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:49pmHere’s a little science for you. Notice how that first graph doesn’t start at 0. Why? Because by only focusing on one specific area they can make the CO2 growth look bigger. To put things in perspective, how many ppm of Oxygen were in those same measurements? As for the second graph, there are two major problems. First, the y-axis measures in different units for each line, meaning that said axis had to be scaled properly to produce that image with that level of correlation. And second, more importantly, association does not equal causation. The data could never, by itself, show which of the two trends caused the other or indicate if a third trend is causing one or both of those measured. There is no hard science here at all, just measurements and wild speculation.
Report Post »republitarian
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:08pmPhilly wont be back to discuss the science. People please take note: THIS is a troll. Not anyone who happens to disagree with you.
Report Post »ProbIemSoIver
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:10pmHere is the Bottom Line !!!!
1) Experts on both sides of the issue disagree, and always will.
2) Regardless of the issue, My Constitutional Rights are NOT to be Infringed !!!!!
I don’t give a Cr@p about a Congressional or Senate vote, a President’s Executive Order,
A Supreme Court Injustice or the British Royalty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RewUP-Fdhqk
Since we are measuring PPM levels of our Atmosphere, Lets check the Aluminum and Barium Levels
Report Post »since our “government” sprays those chemicals in our air every day !!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X7DEdAe4fA
phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:15pmTZION – i wasn’t talking about the validity of this graph at all. i have no idea whether it’s good data or not. i’m talking about Science in general. and i was rebutting MASTER.DEBATER who said that Science couldn’t possibly know how high CO2 levels were in the past.
REPUBLITARIAN – i’m a troll in the sense that i have a differing opinion than the majority of readers here at the Blaze. on many other sites, you would be the troll. i’m attempting to bring a sense of rationality that is sorely lacking here. i hate when disinformation is spread as fact. sadly, that’s what i see from the majority of posters.
Report Post »Iron_Dawg
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:21pm@phillyatheist
I am a research engineer and know quite a bit about data manipulation and extrapolation. The CO2 estimates are just that… estimates. They have very wide error-bars that are NEVER shown because those error-bars make it nearly impossible to apply the trends defending Man-made Global Warming.
To everyone else, there is are a couple of difficult points that make it impossible to say man has any control over Global Warming (or cooling, for that matter):
Report Post »– When tracking temperature and CO2 emmisions, the temperature changes BEFORE CO2 does. This means the CO2 is NOT a likely “cause” of the temperature change.
– Water-vapor makes up more than 90% of the atmosphere and is “green house gas”. If we cannot accurately predict rainfall two weeks from now (I’ve seen the equations… we can’t), what makes you think we can accurately predict effects of radiation heat transfer through water-vapor across millions of years?
– How are global average temperatures currently measured? We only have a few hundred tracking locations (for less than 50 years) and we would need a few million spread evenly thorughout the globe (normalized for population changes) for an accurate, defendable global average temperature.
– Why haven’t the predictions made in the 1960s (saying global cooling) and 1980s (saying global warming) taken place?
1TrueOne55
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:22pmAll I see is another “HOCKEY STICK” graph just in the opposite direction trying to justify shutting down economies and putting millions of people out of work. CO2 is a naturally occurring gas used by green plant life to create Oxygen for the Planet. At least that is what the Science I learned in my Sophmore High School biology class in 1970 was.
It seems that the “new” science is to model facts out of thin air with computers since most of the hype is based on “ESTIMATES” done with computers. Then you postulate what the future would be by projecting the same estimates out on a future timeline. Well if that is the case then the “SCIENCE” in the 70‘s and 80’s was “GLOBAL ICE AGE” was coming.
So that tells me that the planet has “mood” swings in environmental conditions and you can’t predict which way it will go. But you will know that it is self healing or dynamic in Nature. (pun intended)
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:28pmIRON – i will accept your comments and questions as both valid and rational. i have no problem whatsoever with those who deny man’s involvement in the Earth warming. the Science is hardly settled on that matter. i tend to put my trust in the Science community at large, but some skepticism here is likely a good thing.
you do seem to doubt to some extent that warming is occurring, so i have some issue with you here. there is no controversy amongst Climate Scientists that we have entered a period of warming. you can argue data points and lack of sample size, but we have a real good idea of the Earth’s temperature going back millions of years.
Report Post »ProbIemSoIver
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:36pmHere is a viral video that substantiates 1TrueOne55′s post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:44pmi’ve seen that video, and it’s a total piece of crap. America isn’t doing any of what he is claiming that we are doing. it’s a scare piece designed to rile up people who already believe this stuff.
Report Post »HKS
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 2:17pmTo many liberals blowing all that hot air is the problem, get rid of the liberals and that warming problem will go away.
Report Post »republitarian
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 2:42pmPhilly, My prediction was based on your many posts below in which you call every poster stupid for their opinion, yet fail to support your own. Read them again. It’s pretty bad.
“i’m attempting to bring a sense of rationality that is sorely lacking here.”
That‘s funny because you don’t really know anything about the subject.
” i hate when disinformation is spread as fact.”
Then you should be real mad at Al Gore and scientists that have lied to you.
“sadly, that’s what i see from the majority of posters.”
Report Post »You’ll find plenty of disagreement among the posters in this madhouse, but not on this subject. I don’t wonder why.
phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:21pmREPUB – how could i get into a serious Science discussion when the basics are thrown out as garbage. i’d be happy if people would just admit that Global Warming is occurring, and that CO2 emissions are a bad thing for the environment. i can’t even get that here. i shouldn’t have to present evidence on these things – it‘s everywhere you AREN’T looking. there are many details of man’s role, or lack thereof, that are much more interesting, and that i would love to discuss. i do so on sites where the basics aren’t denied. but when the comments are all “global warming is a communist plot” and “scientists are fooling us all” it is my preference to call out these outlandish comments as bunk, and label the perpetrators idiots.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:16pmIf I wanted to find Global Warming: I would place my Monitoring Equipment upon a Volcano in Hawaii!
Report Post »Marci
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:42pmSo here we have a pre-packaged excuse for the next economic downturn which is further down the rabbit hole than we are now. Good news? We can now say they intended it with their own words. But if we are going regulate anything that produces CO2, I say we start with the hot air coming from politicians’ mouths. I’d wager that a tax on that would make a dent in our deficit.
Report Post »Detroit paperboy
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 7:26pmBending over, and grabbing your ankles, will also slow global warming…………
Report Post »MCDAVE
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 7:58pmObama is preparing to force his communism on us http://ncrenegade.com/editorial/we-are-preparing-for-massive-civil-war-says-dhs-informant/
Report Post »IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:32amWait until the evil ones get to Hades and the carbon credits didn’t follow.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:23pmyes, i hear it’s really hot down there. of course, there isn’t any evidence that it is the case, but you will continue to believe it. just like believing that Science is “out to get you”.
Report Post »littlefish
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:31amWe could stop all production of everything, Close all factories, mines, coal fired electric generators,
park all trucks, cars, motorcycles, trains, ships, boats and jet skis . . .all barbQ grills charcoal and gas . . .
Never cook, heat or cool our homes . . .. Never burp, fart . . or allow animals to burp and fart
AND forbid anyone or any thing to breathe . .. . for TWENTY years . . . .! !
>>> We still would have N O E F F E C T on Climate or Climate change . . . . <<<<
And if Romney does NOT address the MAN MADE CLIMATE CHANGE S C A M . . . .for what it is .. .
Report Post »soon . . .I'm votin' for my BIG TOE . . .and it'll be just as effective !!
drbage
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:11pmJust wait until the One issues an executive order to place a tax on breathing under the guise of providing the funding for Obamacare. Perhaps that is the increased flexibility that the One was speaking of with Medvedev.
Report Post »term limits for congress
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:29amGood news!!! The globe’s GDP will soon be on the same level as Botswana. Whew! We‘ll be chillin’ then.
Next, we‘ll adapt China’s population control strategy. Get rid of the girl babies and allow only one boy baby per household.
Future generations will be so appreciative – and cool.
Report Post »ProbIemSoIver
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:15pmThese guys determine the World’s GDP.
They are your “Politicians” bosses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym4TTmOJ4I8
Report Post »smokey67
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:27amI think we should start by having University of MIchigan professors “buggy-pool” to work in horse drawn bugies. Then they should run their computers that are used to help come up with these BS ideas with power from a pedal powered generator that they pedal while working on these stupid theories. And to think these people are “educating”, and I use the term losely, our kids.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:25amGlobal Warming is a bunch of lies for power hungry fascists to take power in the eco movement.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:35amExactly … and a global downturn is exactly what they want. Obama is doing a heck of a job!
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:29pmsome of you people are so ridiculously STUPID. why on Earth would the President want a global economic downturn. if you believe this, you need to lay off the meth and preserve the few remaining brain cells you have left. good luck in rehab.
Report Post »gr8t2bfree
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:25amThis is the current theme for corporate taxation. Don‘t be surprised when you start seeing a nationwide sales tax for appliances based on someone’s opinion of global warming. Pure trash!
Report Post »Chromo200
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:23am“The money would be returned to the population on a per capita basis so the tax would not mean any extra fiscal burden.” Yeah right .. the population will never see that money.
So to reduce demand, let us kill say 20% – 30% of the people from each country. This way they won’t need food and possibly farming can go back to using horses, or better slaves. We don’t need factories to make good .. we can go back to sack cloths, needs less energy to make. We can go back to agrarian life style. We will have more open spaces for the remaining people to enjoy, and you only get to have one child for every 10 couples.
Al Gore can choose who lives and who is sacrificed to save this earth. Al can decide which couple can have the one child. Ah utopia.
Report Post »AmericanStrega
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:44amSeems to me the GOVERNMENT (World Government) wants to give us all (the entire planet Earth) a good dose of Captain Trips. (read The Stand by Stephen King)
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:22amThose pesky people just keep ruining the planet! Selfish, greedy people! *sarcasm
Sadly, I foresee children being indoctrinated and committing suicide to save the polar bears. These so-called scientists are pure evil and have no real concept of the HUMAN impact from the crap they are spouting.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:30pmkeep believing that Scientists are evil. now turn off your computer, throw away your cell phone, and embrace spiritual healing. please, do it.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:17pmHi Copatriots. How is everything?
@Phillyatheist, you are either a hopelessly indoctrinated 20 something lemming, or you are intentionally spouting liberal left wing talking points that you know to be untrue.
Hard to say which one is more sad.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:26pmBILLY – there’s a 3rd possibility – you’re ignorant to the facts of the case, and choose to remain that way.
i’m 38, and have come to my conclusions based on evidence from actual Scientists, not Exxon Mobil and the Koch Brothers, and certainly not from Glenn Beck. who do you think has a bigger horse in this race, the lowly Scientists toiling in obscurity making 50k/year, or Big Oil who stands to make billions denying the Scientists?
keep spouting your party line – that of willful ignorance and fact denial.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:00pm@PHILLY
Wasn’t it “ACTUAL SCIENTISTS” that told me back in 1970 that we were entering a new ice age?
Yes, I believe it was.
Wasn’t it a real scientist, again back around 1970 that said by 1980, 200 million people a year would be starving to death?
Yes, I believe it was.
Wasn’t it real scientists that were recently exposed for faking and manipulating data in order to push the global warming hoax?
Yes, I believe it was.
Wasn’t it a real scientist that just admitted that he himself, along with many other “Actual Scientists” were willfully and deceptively pushing the alarmist mantra?
Yes, I believe it was.
All you global warming lemmings throw your hands in the air and chant with me……..
I BELIEVE !!!!!!!!
P.T. Barnum knew you well, even before you were born.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:02pmHey Billy! I’m good thanks….especially since we recently returned from a wonderful vacation! Hope all is good with you and yours!
My, my…..the lefties hire the craziest trolls to cover The Blaze. Identifying oneself from one of the most poorly run, crime-infested cities as well as an atheist who believes the hoax that is global warming…..well, don’t we just have a live one. Add to that that he chooses to post on a web site in which he disagrees with the majority of posters here. Um, need attention much, P.A.? Someone sounds like he was raised in front of a TV and didn’t get enough hugs as a child.
Now then, you have read the science errors and the chart errors, P.A. What exactly are you defending? For the rest of us, there is enough common sense and skepticism about the “science” of global warming. Hell, Al even bought Tipper a mansion on the Pacific coast a couple of years ago. Do you really think this isn’t about taxes, power and money? Stunning how gullible a 38 year old can be!
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:03pm@Philly
Why are you so proud of the fact that you are an atheist?
So proud that you need to announce it before you even speak.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:08pmOh and Philly,
You gave yourself away when you mentioned the Koch Brothers.
But to your credit, you didn’t blurt out “Haliburton” or “Cheney”
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:14pmBILLY – science gets things wrong all the time. the beautiful thing is they continue to correct themselves. i am NOT saying that man-made Global Warming is a fact. most Climate Scientists believe it to be true, but it is not a settled matter. they will continue to work on it, despite the deniers. what we DO know is that CO2 emissions are bad for the planet, and very well may play a role in Climate Change.
as for your question about my Atheism – mainly, i don’t like making up Usernames and that one came to mind. i figured at a blog where my views would be unwelcome, i might as well let users know up front where i’m coming from.
COPATRIOTS – you’re welcome to your views of Philadelphia, but i must ask – have you ever been here? i’ve lived in Connecticut, Ohio, and Louisiana. i like it here best. to each their own, i suppose.
as for your other comments – i post here because i like to know how other people think, even if it frightens the ever living crap out of me. i post on Liberal sites too. am i an attention seeker? i don’t think so. i try to engage in debate and add some views that folks here may not be exposed to. take that for what it’s worth.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:28pmYes, P.A. I could see you that would like the socialism, bankruptcy and crime of Philly. Yep….I’ve been there. Originally from Penn…..so yes I know of what I speak.
You are not “engaging in debates” when you call everyone who doesn’t believe as you do…..“stupid”. You just admitted you don’t even know if Global Warming is a “fact” yet every single one of your posts are contrary and offensive to those who don’t believe as you do.
He’s all yours, Billy! :-) I have no patience for trolls today.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:36pm@PHILLY Says:
” i post here because i like to know how other people think, even if it frightens the ever living crap out of me. i post on Liberal sites too. am i an attention seeker? i don’t think so. i try to engage in debate and add some views that folks here may not be exposed to.”
Gee thanks, but I’ve been exposed to more liberal views than any human should have to endure. I think I’d prefer being exposed to the measles.
Your reply is far from original. Most libs, when challenged, come back with much the same comments.
So you like to enter the debate?
Why do so many of your posts sound more like attacks, rather than an intellectual challenge?
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:51pmi‘ve said that i don’t know that MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING is a fact. the Earth’s temperature is most definitely rising. what is causing it, and what will the effects be are not facts, yet.
BILLY – i doubt you’ve read all my posts. some are attacks, no doubt. when the most ridiculous things are being spoken, i will lash out. when i encounter someone who is willing to discuss things, or ask questions i try to engage in that.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:28pm@PHILLY
NO global warming to speak of, man made or not, in the last 10 or 12 years.
How come?
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:35pmBILLY – here you go.
http://climate.nasa.gov/keyIndicators/index.cfm#globalTemp
the charts are there. data showing warming. now tell me that NASA is lying so we can just put this to bed.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 6:26pm@PHILLY
No, not lying, but just not the complete story.
Which is typical coming from the left.
Here ya go,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2093264/Forget-global-warming–Cycle-25-need-worry-NASA-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html
I’m not going to waste any more of my day going back and forth with a disingenuous pseudo scientist troll.
If you care to google the topic, there are many more articles that back me up.
So next time, do a little more research before you go playing scientist again…….K?
Consider it put to bed.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:53pm@PHILLY
Here‘s another one just in case you’re interested.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2011/06/08/ten-years-and-counting-wheres-the-global-warming/
Report Post »Listen_then_think
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:20amThat graph is actually a siesmic reading of someone walking up to the siesmometer.
Report Post »SageInWaiting
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:19amIn summary: a major economic downturn would produce starvation and plague resulting in a reduction in breathers, and therefore, a decrease in CO2. …and, of course, so will the transition from a capitalistic to Marxist governing model as multiple millions will be culled from the herd because they will not be able to adapt to a “utopian” lifestyle.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:15amApparently, it is working because I am at 39 degrees this morning. Damn them Liberals, I want my global warming back. You never give up do you, to screw with the American people and cause more headache for them. How about do us all a favor and get out of politics and government because all you do is screw it up. Go help some other nation fall. Oh, that is right, there is no other nation equivalent of the U.S. so it would not be a win for you.
Time to produce lots and lots of CO2 – screw carbon credits – it is nothing but a scam dreamed up by Al Gore to make billions of the American taxpayer. Why isn’t he in jail for fraud?
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:23amI hear ya…….we actually got almost 4 inches of snow last night here in the foothills. :-)
Report Post »G-WHIZ
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:28amNo—Nooo! The [O-O2] tax is great…Tax those who produce the most….all the progressive-commie polititions all over the world…for the [1-World-Govt.]! Billions of dollars in B.S.=C-O2=$$$, and since they talk out of both sides of their mouth, and other orafaces, welll…..You think cows are bad…. .
Report Post »Renewable_Energy_Teacher
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:09amCO2 does NOT cause gloabl warming! It is an effect of, not a cause of temperature variations driven mostly by the sun. This report from the U of M is bolderdash!
Report Post »Thatsitivehadenough
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:17am“U-M Institute for Social Research” should raise all our warning flage. Social research = social engineering for ‘social justice.’ Both are dangerous to humanity.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:25amIsn’t CO2 actually good for plantlife……you know, what humans and other animals need to survive.
Besides, it was determined by the Scotland study that it is now methane that is the real culprit. Stop the drilling!!!! smh
Report Post »CatB
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:37amU of M .. that is all I need to know .. bunch of leftest commies! We lived “down the road” from there and no way would I send my son to that progressive h e l l .
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:34pmyou folks are truly scary. being so incredibly wrong about the very basics of Science shows that you are INCAPABLE of adding any value to human society. you don’t believe the actual Scientists, but believe absurd bloggers with no credentials simply because you read them on your favorite Right Wing web sites. such ignorance, no wonder you believe in a literal Adam and Eve and a 6000 year old Earth. i get it now.
Report Post »republitarian
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:03pmPhilly, you don’t get it. You’ve been lied to by people you trusted. Scientists are people too. People have agendas and will lie to protect them.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:33pmREPUB – science deserves the benefit of the doubt on these issues. they are far too complex for any of us to truly grasp. Science doesn’t lie, and even if it does it self-corrects b/c there is no agenda or dogma to follow. only the truth, and that quest puts Science on a unique platform. individual Scientists may have agendas, but their peers will sniff it out and correct them, and then get the kudos of the remainder of the community.
i say again, if you can prove that CO2 in abundance is a good thing, then publish your paper and enjoy your fame. if you can disprove Evolution through Natural Selection, not only would you be a hero to the religious community, but you would win the Nobel Prize and get your picture taken with the President on the cover of Time Magazine.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:14pmHey P.A.
I HIGHLY recommend that you read (don’t take the easy way out and watch the movie) “Atlas Shrugged”. Pay particular attention to where Ayn Rand discusses the State Science Institute. The book was written around 60 years ago and details quite well the government “owning” scientists and studies via grants and funding. But I don’t suppose you could possibly believe that a scientist would fake data and/or charts to justify additional funding. Surely, there would be no reason for the government(s) to advance an agenda that would gain them more taxes and/or power. It is interesting how much faith and confidence you put in those scientists who believe as you do versus scientists who don’t. Are you certain you have fully researched the science and all aspects as to whether it is, in fact, a hoax and you are actually believing a lie? If so, please provide your prove that global warming is infallibly true.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:58pmCOPATRIOT – my wife got Atlas Shrugged and i was going to read it after her. she couldn’t get through it – said it was boring. i was looking forward to it since Ayn Rand is an Atheist. but i‘ve seen interviews with her and can’t say i find her particularly appealing.
individual Scientists may lie, cheat, manipulate date, and all you said. and yes, the gov’t offers grants and all sorts of moneys for Science to continue to try to advance our civilization. that they are in bed together to some degree is perfectly logical. however, there is no benefit to gov’t espousing phony Science.
we tax cigarettes heavily. why? it’s bad for people and it raises the cost of health insurance for the rest of us. and i’m a smoker! if we tax carbon users, it wouldn‘t be because we’re looking to increase revenue. it would be to discourage a harmful practice. one that will end up costing us all a lot more money to fix.
as for proof of Global warming, i could refer you to NASA studies, or ones which are out of a “liberal” university, but i know how this goes. you will tell me that they are all in Obama’s pocket and are not to be trusted.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 6:37pmWow…..P.A. Pick & choose what you want to believe much. You take scientists that believe as you do at their word but place no value on scientists who don’t. You choose not to read a book that would disagree with your beliefs because your wife found it boring compared to decades of critics and scholars calling it a masterpiece. You defend a belief you say isn‘t a fact and say you’re trying to expand thinking and call it a debate by calling people “ridiculously stupid”. You say the data could be manipulated and that “they are in bed together to some degree is perfectly logical. however, there is no benefit to gov’t espousing phony Science” yet you don’t see the government benefiting at all from additional taxation.
These are rhetorical questions…….exactly what will the government do with all the money from carbon taxes if they don’t know for sure global warming exists, is man-made, what it is caused by? How do you think they would solve the problem that they aren’t even sure exists? How would they possibly know the long-term impact of solving the problem and whether that would actually help or hurt the earth? How did the dinosaurs become extinct and what caused the Ice Age? (Oops, a SCIENTIST said it was dinosaur flatulence so I am quite sure you believe that too.) What impact does the change of the earth’s tilt have? What impact does the sun have? Does the earth have cycles?
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 6:42pmThe point is…….EVEN IF the earth is in a warming cycle the data available to test it is merely over a span of 100 years at best! Not a great amount of time compared to the number of years since the earth was formed. (Um, you have seen the picture of George Washington crossing the Delaware on ice in December, right?)
You furthered nothing in your discussion. Moving on from this topic. Good luck with trusting the government.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:57pm@PHILLY,
What’s the matter, can’t put up with a little boredom in the name of educating yourself?
What a weak and pathetic excuse.
Actually, I think you have already read it, and want to pretend you have not. It’s easier for you that way, isn’t it?
Report Post »johnjamison
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:08amDrone strikes creates a million times more co2 than water boarding….So obviously Obama hates the enviroment and is trying to destroy it.
Report Post »perry1980
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:04amWell if we need a slow down in the economy to stop global warming then we should be FREEZING over the last 3 years.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:14amNo kidding, Obama is Mr. Freeze!
Report Post »purecolorartist
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:00amSorry José Tapia Granados and Edward Ionides of U-M and Óscar Carpintero, but we’re on to you. This article is a little too much in the weeds, but it has great implications that the general public are on to you, and the truth is coming out about this global warming er ‘Climate Change’ scam. This is a great article from whattsupwiththat.com:
Report Post »http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/05/06/east-anglia-climate-research-unit-shown-to-be-liars-by-results-of-latest-foia-ruling-and-investigation/#more-62999 It basically shows that the “hockey stick” temperature graph pushed by Michael Mann and Al Gore is a LIE.
lembrandt
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:00amOne more thing: if that graph, supposedly collected from Mauna Loa, is real, I’ll eat your shirt.
I have been a statistician and that, in no way, resembles a real graph. It looks more lie somebodies idea of what a graph supporting global warming theory *should* look like.
They can’t even assemble a fake graph that looks remotely real.
Report Post »Listen_then_think
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:18amI completely agree. There is no possible way that anything measured on an atmospheric scale would be that exact yearly for 50 years. It would fluctuate much more yearly and vary hugely from year to year and decade to decade. Those idiots can’t even make a graph that looks real. They obviously have no background in statisical anaylsis or variation or plotting, or reseach and design or science or common horse sense for that matter. Complete morons.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:51amSo…..to summarize your comments…..all it takes now to be deemed a Scientist at U of M is to be able to fake a graph. And they take out huge government student loans that won‘t be repaid to learn to lie and aren’t even very good at lying. Wow……what a country we’re becoming!
Report Post »Sue Dohnim
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:59amTapia Granados wrote in a Marxist magazine..
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2009/tapia101109.html
“capitalism will have to disappear to allow for a system more in agreement with the present stage of human civilization. That stage has led us to form a global society in which national states and governments have become historical relics, increasingly unable to cope with worldwide problems that require worldwide solutions.”
The Human Global Warming scam is ECOMARXISM..
Report Post »Sue Dohnim
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:33amThis is a “softball” a marxist social academic writes a study that calls for the end of Capitalism to save the world from “Climate Change”
You just can’t make this crap up…
Report Post »cookcountypatriot
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:59ampure progressive crap, feces , dung………garbage..
Report Post »CatB
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:38amIt’s the University of Michigan .. yes pretty much sums it up .. bunch of commies.
Report Post »Watcher1952
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:58amWhat a bunch of crap….now they will want us to believe that dinosaur farts is the cause for global warming also….. Just think…your tax dollars are at work here….U of M is definately going down hill as far as education goes
Report Post »VoteRightDammit
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:57amGod what blather.
Report Post »lembrandt
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:57amThis is just one reason why the left, under the leadership of Obama, is *actively* destroying the United States specifically and Western Civilization in general.
They are insane.
Report Post »johnjamison
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:07amWell the government can lead by example and commit mass suicide there by cutting off millions of tonnes in CO2 (hot air) that is heating up the U.S. in more ways than one.
Report Post »South Philly Boy
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:55amGlobal Warming + algore + granados = FRAUD
Report Post »Steve28
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:52amFollow the money. Carbon tax does nothing but redistribute wealth.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:39amYes .. and the poor and middle class suffer the most . .. and here it is the commies (socialists including and especially ALGORE and Obama) promoting it!
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:51amBunch of HOG WASH.. all this GLOBAL WARMING, I mean, CLIMATE CHANGE CRAP. It’s a scam to steal money from hard working people. I suppose Obama will now say this slow recovery is on purpose to save the planet? HAHAHA
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