US

Study: Guns Don’t Kill People, ‘Stand Your Ground’ Laws Do

A new study released by Texas A&M University argues that not only do “Stand Your Ground” laws – like the Lone Star State’s Castle Doctrine – not deter crime, they actually increase murder rates, perhaps making the argument for anti-gun advocates who wish to see the laws struck down.

The report comes during a time where self-defense laws are facing more scrutiny following the February shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. The man who shot Martin, 26-year-old George Zimmerman, says he acted in self-defense in accordance with Florida’s suddenly controversial “Stand Your Ground” legislation.

Texas A&M Study Claims Stand Your Ground Laws Result in More Deaths

Source: allvoices.com

The study goes on to argue that it is “clear” these types of laws result in increased death.

“Regardless of how one interprets increases from various classifications, it is clear that the primary effect of strengthening self-defense law is to increase homicide,” the report reads, written by Cheng Cheng and Mark Hoekstra of the Texas A&M Department of Economics.

At least 23 states have adopted their own versions of Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground laws, which remove the “duty to retreat” and gives citizens the right to use deadly force against an attacker if there is no other option.

More from the study:

“We find the laws increase murder and manslaughter by a statistically significant 7 to 9 percent, which translates into an additional 500 to 700 homicides per year nationally in states which have adopted Castle Doctrine.”

“One theory is that these are in some sense legitimate self-defense killings that just don’t meet the strict definition of justifiable homicide.”

“While castle doctrine law may well have benefits to those protecting themselves in self-defense (meaning the individual cases where a person uses a weapon to deter a specific crime), there is no evidence that the law provides positive spillovers by deterring crime more generally.”

“We now turn to whether strengthening self-defense laws causes an escalation of violence. Given that the laws reduce the costs associated with using violence, economic theory would predict that we would get more of it. Perhaps the most obvious form of escalation—and one most commonly cited by critics of castle doctrine law—is that conflicts or crimes that might not have otherwise turned deadly may now do so. For example, a criminal may not have intended to kill someone he was robbing until the victim attempted to use a weapon in self-defense. ”

Cheng and Hoekstra also argue that strengthening concealed carry gun rights and Castle Doctrine laws has no “meaningful deterrence” on theft-related crimes. They said this surprised them.

Texas A&M Study Claims Stand Your Ground Laws Result in More Deaths

file photo

“We would expect that these crimes would decline after the adoption of castle doctrine, to the extend that criminals respond to higher actual or perceived risks that the victims will use lethal force to protect themselves,” they added.

Their explanation? Instead of thinking twice about invading a home that is protected by a Castle Doctrine, illogical criminals instead may choose to arm themselves as well, turning a routine burglary into a potential shooting death. They say criminals – and some of the “general public” – aren’t able to determine the likelihood of someone using deadly force against them.

“This is true not just of criminals, but of the general public: when it come to things that involve probabilistic thinking, people have a pretty hard time with it…‘What’s the increase in the possibility that someone will defend themselves with lethal force against me?‘ It’s tough to answer that in a super rigorous way, Hoekstra told the Dallas Observer. “The idea that a criminal is going to do a really great job of answering that, and if they’d be able to make these calculations — You’re asking a lot of anybody to make that calculation.”

Just to clarify for our audience, the possibility of bodily harm is probably more likely when you are committing a crime or invading someone’s home or property.

But the researchers also agree there is probably more than just self-defense law behind their findings:

“We suspect that self-defense situations are unlikely to explain all of the increase, as we also find that murder alone is increased by a statistically significant 6 to 11 percent.”

The Dallas Observer provides some additional insight:

Hoekstra and his co-author, grad student Chen Cheng, looked at 23 states where castle doctrine laws exist and found slight evidence that castle doctrine increases justifiable homicides committed by civilians by anywhere from 17 to 50 percent. That sounds like a lot. But the reality is that justifiable homicide is narrowly defined and exceedingly rare: according to the FBI, a killing can only be classified that way when someone kills another person who’s committing a felony. Fewer than 200 deaths are classified that way each year.

The homicide increase also presents another issue for the researchers. How do you determine who died in a castle doctrine situation: the alleged criminal or the person allegedly defending themselves? The FBI data Hoekstra and Cheng studied doesn’t show that kind of detail, and Hoekstra says it‘s crucial in figuring out what’s driving the homicide increase. The answer, he says, is another study.

“The best idea I’ve come up with is to try to figure out if the people getting killed have criminal backgrounds,” he says. “If you see an increase in people getting killed without criminal backgrounds then at least part of what it suggests is escalation.” But, he concedes, “It’s going to be difficult. I don’t know how optimistic I am.”

It may be worth while to point out, even in the aftermath of the Trayvon Martin case, roughly 56 percent of Florida residents still support Stand Your Ground in the Sunshine State, according to a Quinnipiac University study.

You can read all Texas A&M University’s study on self-defense laws here.

Comments (282)

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  • barber2
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:30pm

    This is the entire purpose of the NBPP / Sharpton Media Circus of the Martin case. They are merely using this case to further their agenda to turn down the Stand Your Ground Laws AND to restrict gun ownership in America. Big Brother Democrats do not want anyone to be able to protect himself from criminals who always have guns. Gives the individual too much power over Big Brother ! The racism underlying this entire “ white Hispanic” Zimmerman case is also blatantly obvious. Disgusting thug , union , racist, mob , Occupy , Obama Democrat behavior. Time to Drain That Swamp. Nancy included.

    Report Post »  
    • PROSECUTE_PUBLIC_SERVANTS__FOR_CONSTITUTIONAL_TREASON
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:40pm

      POWERLESS PEOPLE…………..

      See what the British say after giving up their guns.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKdBxpKqUvs&feature=related

      Here’s what the Australians say after giving up their guns.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGaDAThOHhA&feature=related

      Report Post »  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:01pm

      There’s just too much wrong with this study to post. Chity Chity Cheng Cheng and Mark (empty holster) Hoekstra, of the Texas A&M Department of Economics, are saying it’s economically unsound to defend oneself because doing so increases the homicide stats. They haven’t even studied who the Coroner picks up when someone defends themselves. But they plan to after they get more Grant money for another study.

      To say that criminals will feel more likely to arm themselves when they break and enter a home to rob it is the epitome of Marxism. I don’t want to shake hands and be friendly to thieves (like the TV commercial). I will defend myself, my car, my family and my home; and I will live and my taxes will pay for the other person’s trip to the morgue and not 10 to 20 in a prison or me in a hospital. If the State wants me to pay taxes they can put a taxi sign on top of the Coroner’s van and charge me for the ride out of my taxes.

      Where I grew up, every home had a gun and there were no B&E’s. Thus, a smaller Police force was needed. As for armed robberies, same thing, we were packing and no thief knew who was carrying so they were AFRAID to rob people.

      Now that’s a lesson in economics. : )

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • brother_ed
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:04pm

      There will undoubtedly be an increase in deaths until the criminals figure out that crime is dangerous to their health.

      Report Post » brother_ed  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:12pm

      And here’s another unanswered question……

      Did Trayvon Martin’s Mother ever have an abortion? Did she willingly kill one of Trayvon’s siblings?

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:17pm

      Growing up with TV we all learned that the good guy wears the white hat.

      Why is Trayvon wearing a white hoodie in all the (doctored) photos and not the black hoodie he owned and was wearing the night of that unfortunate incident.

      Are blacks saying that “white equals right”?

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:21pm

      John Lott is the authority on gun statistics. This study is progressive spin.

      John Lott will probably issue a rebuttal on TownHall.com

      For one liberals never measure how many crimes, death, injuries that guns prevent. It is hard to measure & it is convenient for liberal/progressives not to measure it.

      Report Post »  
    • barber2
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:26pm

      Monk: think you have a good point ! The photo-shopping involved in the Martin case is probably greater than the phony allegations ! Sure wish one of those photo-shop people would expose all of that !

      Report Post »  
    • Bum thrower
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:41pm

      The ‘Castle Doctrine’ and ‘Stand Your Ground’ Laws ALL do not allow civil suits for damages against the person protectng his life or property. THAT IS THE REAL reason for all these efforts; TRAVON Martin‘s relatives don’t stand a snowballs chance in Hell of collecting $$$; they are pissed and the attorneys who represent them are likewise pissed at not getting a ‘pay day’……..Justice Jessie jackson’s ASS; it all about MONEY………

      Report Post »  
    • Yankeethinker
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:43pm

      “An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
      – Robert A. Heinlein, “Beyond This Horizon”, 1942

      So the death rate goes up… Big deal… Murder is the taking of an innocent life, defending one’s life by killing your assailant is not murder, its justice. So technically by that very definition, the murder rates DO NOT go up, they will actually decrease since the would be victim is alive and the assailant dead. Long term effect would be a decrease in crime attributed to the removal of said assailants from the gene pool… thus you will see a dramatic increase in recipients of the Darwin Award.

      Report Post »  
    • Richalu
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:44pm

      Would this woman be alive if she wasn’t allowed to defend herself?
      http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c84_1305964701

      How many stories like this are needed to make people see?
      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/29/nyregion/29chesire.html?_r=1

      How many countless others would be killed by if our ability to defend ourselves is taken. Are liberals heads so deep in the sand that they actually think they’re safe if they remain passive?

      Report Post » Richalu  
    • jzs
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:52pm

      THEMONK says, “To say that criminals will feel more likely to arm themselves when they break and enter a home to rob it is the epitome of Marxism.”

      Come on Monk, “the epitome of Marxism?” Monk, please. Marxism is an economic system. Why not say gun ownership is, or lack of gun ownership is, the epitome of capitalism? That simply doesn’t make sense. Can you quote Marx or Engles or some other Marxist philosophers about how owning guns or not owning them is central to their philosophy?

      Monk, I know that invoking the word “Marxism” is the new version of saying “Communism.” Fine, I know that’s the new “smart” word to use. But those are not magic words, words that when you use them automatically prove your point as if by magic.

      Monk, you’re not stupid. You’re remarks are not the epitome of typical fascist ideas (as a rule). But please, you’re a monk, not a sorcerer. The invocation of magic words like “communism” doesn’t prove your point. Either make a logical argument or admit these guys are right. Don’t give us your monk-voodoo incantations about economic philosophies and how they are the epitome of gun ownership. Or vica versa.

      Report Post » jzs  
    • RJJinGadsden
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 10:02pm

      JZS, You fell for the sarcasm. It‘s much like you calling most of us here racists merely because we disagree with a black man’s political policies. Not the actual color of his skin. If you guys want to tell lies, get used to it.

      Report Post » RJJinGadsden  
    • SpeckChaser
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 10:38pm

      JZS

      I am glad you finally stopped attacking those who do/have called Obama a socialist. I guess you didn’t have a choice in the matter. I mean, he was a member of a socialist organization for crying out loud.

      You can continue on with the communist debate, that is, unless we find out he also joined that group too.

      Report Post » SpeckChaser  
    • Dr Vel
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 10:44pm

      The entire study is a damn lie and uses false statistics. One only needs to compare FBI stats for violent crime in areas such as New York and D.C. where guns are not allowed to cities of similar size where open carry is allowed. Quite simply an armed citizen is a greater deterrent to violent crime than all the police in the nation.

      Report Post »  
    • Mutiny
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 10:46pm

      @barber

      Ya know who else is pro gun restriction laws?

      You guessed Romney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzYTdM9b5F4
      Romney “I believe the protect us and provide for our safety”.

      Report Post » Mutiny  
    • SpankDaMonkey
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 10:50pm

      .
      I keep trying to tell ya’ll Texas Sucks….Texas A&M A-Holes & Morons

      And to make things worse we have to put up with these losers in the SEC……

      Report Post » SpankDaMonkey  
    • silentwatcher
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 10:50pm

      Sure am sick n tired of people blaming the wrong people for dead criminals. If all the thugs obeyed the law and didn’t establish a threat against the innocent,,,,nobody dies! How ’bout blaming the criminals for their deaths. I have ABSOLUTELY NO SIMPATHY FOR THEM.

      Report Post »  
    • brother_ed
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 11:03pm

      @SPANKDAMONKEY

      Why is Louisiana shaped like a boot?

      Cause you can’t fit all that crap in a sneaker!

      Sorry, couldn’t resist…

      Admittedly, I originally heard that as an Italian joke – because of my Italian heritage, people would jab me. But if the shoe fits…

      Seriously, though. I love Louisiana, great food, great people!!

      Report Post » brother_ed  
    • Mutiny
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 12:33am

      You know who else thinks gun restriction laws are good? You guessed it, Willard!!

      Report Post » Mutiny  
    • jzs
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 1:06am

      RJJinGadsden says, “JZS, You fell for the sarcasm.” Huh? What was the sarcastic remark I fell for?

      Speck says, “I am glad you finally stopped attacking those who do/have called Obama a socialist.” Huh?

      Hey guys, thanks I guess, but your remarks are non sequiturs.

      Listen, I get it. You don’t feel comfortable responding to the content of my remarks, or defending the person I responded to by challenging my response. I can hardly blame you for not attempting that futile gesture. So instead you make these arcane remarks, superficial remarks but not remarks that address the topic at hand.

      You don’t have to be trolls. That’s unbecoming, and makes it appear you aren’t able to grasp and respond to the issues.

      Of course, that makes you fit in here. But it doesn’t make you stand above the average troll here.

      Report Post » jzs  
    • Ask Uncle JZS
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 1:08am

      Dear nephew jzs, it seems that you learned a new word tonight and you use it most inappropriately. We all know that you had to look up “epitome” and it’s now your new calling card. Shame on you. Your momma will spank you silly…. hopefully.

      Report Post » Ask Uncle JZS  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 1:54am

      Hey JZS,

      I see you are shootin’ off your mouth again.

      And speaking of shootin’, I saw your extensive rant about guns and crime on Sunday.

      And then low and behold, what do I see hit the headlines on Monday.

      Violent crime, including murder, assault, and rape declined by 4% last year. This is the 5th consecutive year that it has declined.

      And the funniest thing of all is that as this has been happening, guns sales have been going through the roof. Actually, they have been skyrocketing ever since Obama took office.

      Whataya know JZSaul. More guns,…….and I mean a lot more guns,……seems to equal less violent crimes. Quite a few less crimes.

      And this is happening at a time when crime should be on the rise, according to those that believe in the “sciences” of the mind.

      JZS, do you ever get anything right?

      Oh, and JZS, why do you imagine Glenn got a new multi-million dollar contract?

      The way you talked, I thought he was about to be run off the air due his advertisers leaving in droves?

      Guess I shouldn’t listen to you any more, huh?

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 2:00am

      Hey JZS,

      Just thought of somethin else.

      Do you suppose that the crime rate decline might also have something to do with the fact that the type of people that may be more prone to the criminal lifestyle have been aborting themselves for the past several generations?

      Less criminals, less crime?

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • MAMMY_NUNN
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 2:05am

      What are the stats for repeat offenders ?

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 2:10am

      And JZS,

      Since I know how you think,……..I was referring to your average lefty liberals.

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • osgeek
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 2:30am

      Where guns are banned, like England, there are more knife crimes. As a matter of a fact you are nearly twice as likely to be killed with a knife in England that with a gun in the US.

      http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=1323

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2287360/Murder-rate-increasing-amid-epidemic-of-knife-and-gun-crime.html

      Point is, some criminals will hurt or kill you regardless of weapon available. So why disarm law abiding individuals? Do you really believe criminals will turn in guns?

      Report Post »  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 2:32am

      JZSaul,

      As of late, you have been frequently referring to people using “Magic words” like marxism, or communism.

      JZS, those are not magic words.

      “Hocus Pocus”……now those are magic words, and your posts are the epitome of their definition.

      ho·cus-po·cus (hks-pks)
      n.
      1. Nonsense words or phrases used as a formula by quack conjurers.

      Noun 1.hocus-pocus – verbal misrepresentation intended to take advantage of you in some way.

      hocus-pocus [ˈhəʊkəsˈpəʊkəs]
      n
      1. trickery or chicanery
      2. mystifying jargon

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • Mother of JZS
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 2:33am

      Dagnabit, you silly son of mine. how can you dispute the facts that others posted here? you are so under-educated that you have a hard time picking veggies in the field without ******* on yourself and others. you jest wait till ur relitives come home and put u in ur place.

      Now go to bed and turn off that stuped puter!

      Love,
      Your Mother

      Report Post » Mother of JZS  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 2:51am

      Why hello Mrs JZS,

      How are you this fine evening, and my but don’t you look lovely.(cough, cough)
      Is that cookies I smell?

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • TexasHunter
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 2:57am

      I hope America will fight for their rights. Nothing good ever comes of not being protected! If America doesn’t the citizen will. We are the government! Not the govt us!!

      Report Post » TexasHunter  
    • TexasHunter
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 3:00am

      This is bullsht. Bet you 100% if a criminal knows a house doesnt have a gun and one that does guess what house he will pick..

      Report Post » TexasHunter  
    • Stoic one
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 3:00am

      Let’s see here:

      Place one gun – firearm (any kind) on the table. nothing happens.
      Place one law on the same table (castle, stand your ground, etc) – nothing happens

      Break (this means commit a crime) into the home of a gun (firearms) owner- gee the perpetrator is most likely dead.

      Break into the home of an unarmed home owner – perpetrator has home owners money, valuables, and if said perps are violent; BEAT the living hell out of home owner and RAPES his wife.

      Criminal who breaks into unarmed home owners house – makes a profit.

      Criminals who break into a gun-owners home are committing suicide.
      Criminals do not break in no one gets hurt!
      See, it really is very simple.

      Report Post » Stoic one  
    • nzkiwi
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 6:41am

      Thanks to you guys who posted the various links.

      That made for some very sobering viewing/reading.

      Report Post »  
    • Recceman90
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 7:14am

      Amen!

      Report Post » Recceman90  
    • 000degrees
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 7:58am

      I would like to know how you record data on the thoughts of potential criminal activity. To say that criminals would only arm themselves if they thought the homeowner is armed makes about as much sense as “resist we much”. Tell me this Mr. Researcher, if everyone in my neighborhood is armed and everyone in the neighborhood down the street is not, which one will receive more break ins? You do not qualify as a researcher if lack of logic and anti gun bias rule your world

      Report Post »  
    • little big man
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 8:25am

      This is totaly stupid I live in Pa we have such a law, and I don’t see people gunning down other people in the name of stand your ground or what ever you want to call it.

      The study is BS.
      They are good laws with good intntions. if I‘m in Philly where I do go on business a lot and someone thinks they are going to mug and rob me and in the process I shot and kill them I’m standing my ground and don’t have to worry about the dumb a$$ mugger and going to jail.

      Report Post » little big man  
    • Secret Squirrel
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 8:25am

      .
      This is simply a high tech lynching of Zimmerman.
      Rather than try the case in court, the prosecution has decided to try the case in the media.
      If “stand your ground” was problematic, wait until after the trial when it won’t taint the jury.
      No, that would make sense, can’t have that.

      Every day I see the prosecution trotting out the grieving Martin parents.
      If they were such concerned parents, tell me where they were the night
      Trayvon got stoned and walked to the 7-11?
      “Son, since you’re kicked out of school, it’s time to PARTY!”

      Report Post » Secret Squirrel  
    • Wolf
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 9:14am

      The only reason there‘s an increase in home invasion shootings is there’s an increase in home invasions. The reason there‘re more deaths during muggings is there’s an increase in muggings. The reason there are more deaths is there are more stupid criminals threatening people who are fed up with lawlessness encouraged by liberal bleeding hearts and have decided to protect themselves. Simple solution to problem: get rid of the bleeding heart laws and criminals won’t think they can get away with their actions.

      Report Post »  
    • Brosto
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 9:21am

      “For example, a criminal may not have intended to kill someone he was robbing until the victim attempted to use a weapon in self-defense.”

      So we should give a criminal the benefit of the doubt that he won’t try to kill me and my family? Given the situation, I’m not willing to take that chance.

      Report Post »  
    • black9897
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 9:53am

      Yep. And people like sheep will give in due to fear, and because they think they will be “safe.” There doesn’t need to be a law that says I can protect myself. Laws don’t do this. Overzealous people do.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • Docrow
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 9:53am

      Being prey is a choice. Is it yours?

      Report Post » Docrow  
    • Jacque
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 10:15am

      I agree. Isn’t it amazing we have not heard a word from the racists, obumma, holder, sharpton , jackson….relating to the murder of a white female by two blacks, the recent murder of a mentally retarded hispanic by a black man, (the victim did throw a punch at the guys car after almost running down the victim and his dog) or the black guy who chewed off the face of a white homeless man, I could go on and on but you get my point.

      Can you imagine if the last case was reversed? WHITE PEOPLE NOW EATING BLACKS-NY TIMES

      Report Post »  
    • turkey13
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 10:51am

      About 15 years ago when I lived in Texas I had the Sheriff in for a safety meeting. One of my employees asked him what would happen if he shot an intruder breaking in and if he shot that person. The Sheriff replied, ” You would probably be all right but to make sure, it would be safer to drag them all the way in if they were only half way in your house.”

      Report Post »  
    • Leader1776
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 11:56am

      @Bum thrower
      Great point. No payday!! Well, maybe mommy will get rich on the trademarking she did of words and phrases around Trayvon.

      Report Post » Leader1776  
    • ICEDRAGONNITE
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 2:01pm

      Guns don’t kill people Liberals do, Progressives do, Socialists do, Marxists do, and according to the New Black Panthers the new KKK they want to. The list goes on and on.

      Report Post » ICEDRAGONNITE  
    • armyofnibiru
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 2:11pm

      the picture with the white hoodie is trayvon at age 12 to show that he was alittle child, not the large young man when he met george. but unloaded guns don’t kill people,BULLETS from loaded guns do.

      Report Post »  
    • Jaycen
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 8:30pm

      The study authors were surprised by their findings? No they weren’t. They were going to find those “findings” regardless of what they actually found.

      Their findings aren’t even scientific, but conjecture based on their own bias. Sheesh.

      Report Post » Jaycen  
    • Jeffrey777
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 10:52pm

      And this doesn’t help. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gApnTJs-J1ZkiVFBoWaQ1By2cU9A?docId=241a97a637014523a37a6afe8fa7fe23

      22 min video that has not been released. The video on the blaze was only a few minutes long and showed only the group of guys making remarks to rodriquez and posturing followed by rushing him. The part nobody has seen supposedly shows him going on the property and talking them into coming into the street. Would like to see it, since if this is true it would be the most blatent misuse of stand your ground law I have ever heard of. It could go to zimmerman following treyvon to draw him out so he could shoot him, just like they say Rodrquez talked these guys into going to the street. Although zimmy took a beating, it just might be ignored.

      Report Post »  
    • SoDakUSA
      Posted on June 14, 2012 at 3:42pm

      Found ‘em!

      Report Post » SoDakUSA  
  • PROSECUTE_PUBLIC_SERVANTS__FOR_CONSTITUTIONAL_TREASON
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:29pm

    Treyvon Martin was killed by his own actions. The parents should have taught their son to respect others and others property. The parents are refusing to take the shame they deserve for raising a criminal. Private property is worth defending and killing for folks. Study your founding fathers and you will see they agree. Do your own research.

    The day guns are taken in America you will be headed to a FEMA camp for interment. Stand by your guns at all costs. No one is taking our guns in America. 250 million guns and the Constitution say so.

    Report Post »  
    • PROSECUTE_PUBLIC_SERVANTS__FOR_CONSTITUTIONAL_TREASON
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:45pm

      “The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed the subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty.” Adolf Hitler

      “This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!” Adolf Hitler

      Report Post »  
    • Jake Wilde
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:40pm

      2nd quote is wrong. Someone made it up later, but I agree. There is more in Mein Kampf that seems like O is going right along Hitler’s playbook.

      Report Post »  
    • pavnvet
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 8:36am

      @ Prosecute. You are spot on with all your comments. I especially liked, and thank you for the links in your other post regarding gun control fostered on the citizens of England and Australia. The facts are clear and they are simple. The only thing a criminal fears is an armed citizen. They do not fear the law or the consequences of being caught and convicted.

      Report Post » pavnvet  
    • objectivetruth
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 9:56am

      Always remain armed.Guns knives pipes chains kitchen wear.Use what is necessary and available to stop the perp.

      Report Post »  
  • nobull14
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:27pm

    If someone was going to use my head as a nail on the cement . I would shoot him dead in self defense in a heartbeat !!!!. The stand your ground law is right and just. Just last weekend in Chicago they had 45 shooting and 10 murders and 98% was black on Black crimes and gangs . These progressive liberal butt wipes want to take away the right to defend your self and leave you helpless !!!!!.

    Report Post »  
    • Slipstick
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 9:49am

      …all those black-on-black murders in Chicago! Where were Rev Al and Jesse??? Where is the outrage? Where are the media? Oh, the killings are black-on-black. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Move along…

      Report Post » Slipstick  
  • Wolfgang the Gray
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:26pm

    If someone breaks into my home, I don’t care what they are thinking or planning. Once they enter the home uninvited, they left their rights outside. I will defend myself and my family with extreme prejudice. Just to make sure the anti-gun nuts out there can’t use me defending my family, I have a plethora of non-firearm weapons of the archaic family that are just as lethal as a gun. Criminals beware!

    Report Post » Wolfgang the Gray  
    • nobull14
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:35pm

      Right on, I agree 100%

      Report Post »  
    • PROSECUTE_PUBLIC_SERVANTS__FOR_CONSTITUTIONAL_TREASON
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:00pm

      “Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.” Joseph Stalin

      “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Benjamin Franklin

      Possession of weapons is never discouraged in Scripture. In fact, in 1Sam 13:19ff, it is negatively reported that no spears or swords were found in Israel because of the Philistines: Nehemiah 4:14 specifically says, “…fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your houses.”

      A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT.” George Washington “

      “THE STRONGEST REASON for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, TO PROTECT AGAINST TYRANNY in government” . Thomas Jefferson:

      “It is the DUTY of the Patriot to protect his country from ITS government.” Thomas Payne

      Never Forget, even for an instant, that the one and only reason anybody has for taking your gun away is to make you weaker than he is, so he can do something to you that you wouldn’t allow him to do if you were equipped to prevent it. This goes for burglars, muggers, and rapists, and even more so for policemen, bureaucrats, and politicians. Alexander Hope

      Report Post »  
    • hallkbrdz
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 10:37pm

      Exactly right.

      And unlike those Brits and Ausies – unless they actually repeal the 2nd amendment – we keep our guns. I don’t care we laws are passed – the US Constitution trumps them all. It tells the Govt what it CAN NOT DO.

      Report Post » hallkbrdz  
    • creepshow
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 1:43am

      wolfgang the gay -
      No doubt criminals everywhere have read your dire warning and are sh***ing themselves in fear.
      Idiot.

      Report Post »  
    • 1Sonofliberty
      Posted on June 14, 2012 at 6:53pm

      Napoleon Dynamite

      Report Post »  
  • momrules
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:26pm

    Is this the reason for the Zimmerman travesty? Stand your ground has been a hot topic since the beginning of the Zimmerman case so now I wonder if the whole thing was started to go after the guns again with the NBPP, Sharpton, etc. involvement just icing on the cake for the government.

    That* trayvonkilledbylegislation* website speaks volumes. The Zimmerman case is starting to make sense to me.

    Report Post »  
    • momrules
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:43pm

      Remember this? Obama told the Brady’s that he was working on gun control under the radar.

      http://hotair.com/archives/2011/05/25/obama-were-working-on-gun-control-under-the-radar/

      Report Post »  
    • PROSECUTE_PUBLIC_SERVANTS__FOR_CONSTITUTIONAL_TREASON
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:02pm

      Stand Your Ground – Criminals Are Worth Killing If NECESSARY

      “Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.” Joseph Stalin

      “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Benjamin Franklin

      Possession of weapons is never discouraged in Scripture. In fact, in 1Sam 13:19ff, it is negatively reported that no spears or swords were found in Israel because of the Philistines: Nehemiah 4:14 specifically says, “…fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your houses.”

      A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT.” George Washington “

      “THE STRONGEST REASON for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, TO PROTECT AGAINST TYRANNY in government” . Thomas Jefferson:

      “It is the DUTY of the Patriot to protect his country from ITS government.” Thomas Payne

      Never Forget, even for an instant, that the one and only reason anybody has for taking your gun away is to make you weaker than he is, so he can do something to you that you wouldn’t allow him to do if you were equipped to prevent it. This goes for burglars, muggers, and rapists, and even more so for policem

      Report Post »  
    • Bronco II
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:51pm

      This is what is really is all about I don‘t hear them talking about their son anymore and what an angel he was it’s now all about the law they want to get rid of I willing to bet if it had been the other way around they be standing on the other side fighting with us to keep the law and don‘t forget his mother works for the government housing authority that tells me alot right there and they had the meeting today in the church in our town and the pastor is a spiritual advisor to the Bama except when the bama came out of the closet in favor of same sex marriage he wasn’t to pleased and let it be known but still makes me wonder what is being preached in the church it‘s just about ten minutes from me but have never gone but I might make a trip one sunday out of curiosity and will be respectful in GODS HOUSE but will let people know how it went and what is taught we also have a Muslim community center or Mosque opening soon just around the corner from me I wonder if I would be welcome there it’s getting dicy but GOD is in control and as long as I have HIM with me I’ll be fine and use common sense and pray always for His help and guidance.I will never give up my guns or GOD EVER.I will die on my feet before I‘ll live on my knees and the only time I’m on my knees is when I’m praying and worshipping my FATHER IN HEAVEN.

      Report Post » Bronco II  
  • woodcellar
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:26pm

    Only someone that is anti gun would even do a stupid study like this. More junk research.

    Report Post »  
  • THXll38
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:25pm

    The reason homicides are up because people are no longer are the victim. When the flight part of fight does not work, you are left with fight and if someone threatens your life, kill the bastard. Anyway, these are good homicides . . . after all, they are criminals that just infest our prison system and the bill goes to the tax payer.

    Report Post » THXll38  
    • wdittgasn
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 10:31pm

      I agree, There is not more homicides, just better ones, ones where it is the criminal that dies instead of an innocent victim…..

      Report Post » wdittgasn  
  • dennisS
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:24pm

    Sorry smart college professors, when someone shoots someone and kills them consistent with the stand your ground laws or castle doctrine it is not murder! Go back to your ivory towers and shut up!

    Report Post »  
  • PROSECUTE_PUBLIC_SERVANTS__FOR_CONSTITUTIONAL_TREASON
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:23pm

    If everyone without a criminal felony record carried a gun, everyone would be more respectful and polite.

    The average response time for the police if they come at all is 12+ minutes. In that time someone can assault your four year old daughter in Texas, or bite your face off in Miami. The response time of a 357 is micro seconds.

    In historic Israel there were no jails. There were several cities of refuge if you killed someone by accident, but those who broke the law were quickly judged and punished. Alot of punishments carried the death penalty. If someone has to die, it needs to be the criminal. Dead criminals send a strong message to the rest of the criminals.

    Report Post »  
  • RamboTheDog
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:23pm

    I am now dumber for reading this – Thanks Blaze!

    What a bunch of hooey – Conceal Carry, Open Carry, Castle Laws…who said it was for crime deterrance anyway?

    I carry to protect myself and my family – not to “deter” crime.

    Report Post » RamboTheDog  
    • RJJinGadsden
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:38pm

      I legally carry as well. It is supposed to be knowledge available to the criminal where a state allows such carry that is the deterrent itself. Where and when a criminal knows that a potential victim or member of a household is armed he is less likely to make such an attempt. Out in this rural area where I live there is very little such activity. As spread out as the homes and farms are, any would be criminal should realize that we are all well armed.

      Report Post » RJJinGadsden  
    • bereal
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 11:02pm

      You are correct! The reason it’s put “to deter crime” makes it more palatable. Reality is, it’s for the personal protection of self, family and home.

      Report Post »  
  • junior1971
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:23pm

    They just cant get the gun out of our hands. It is eating them up that we are all that stands between them and their dream of dominance. REV 12/9 ” And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.REV 12/13-17″[13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
    [14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
    [15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
    [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
    [17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the REMNANT OF HER SEED, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Report Post » junior1971  
  • RightPolitically
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:19pm

    The criminals and their supporters want to make certain that their victims are disarmed by PC politicians. After all, in their minds, only they should have a weapon!

    Report Post » RightPolitically  
  • AzThunder
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:19pm

    If the “Stand Your Ground” law got rid of ONE trayvon martin “wanna-be-thug-p-o-s” then it was worth it

    Report Post » AzThunder  
  • Ramv36
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:16pm

    If these same people were so concerned about preventing deaths in this country, then why not end abortion? 400k+ dying a year before they‘re even born is a much bigger group of saved lives than the 10’s of thousands killed each year by firearms.
    This factually proves that they really don’t care about the number of lives involved, but simply pushing their agenda.

    Report Post »  
    • RJJinGadsden
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:42pm

      For that matter, make a better study of traffic accidents, or accidental medical deaths.

      Report Post » RJJinGadsden  
  • Ramv36
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:15pm

    And so it begins…how very predictable!

    Report Post »  
  • neocon1
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:14pm

    full story here

    http://gunowners.org/sk0802.htm

    Report Post »  
  • possom
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:14pm

    Good for us. Bad for criminal’s. There going to try anything to make us weaker and more subservient!

    Report Post » possom  
  • neocon1
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:14pm

    Fact Sheet: Guns Save Lives
    Sunday, 28 September 2008 19:00
    Fact Sheet: Guns Save Lives

    A. Guns save more lives than they take; prevent more injuries than they inflict

    * Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year — or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2

    * Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.3

    * As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.4

    * Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of “Guns in America” — a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.5

    * Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).6 And readers of Newsweek learned that “onl

    Report Post »  
  • CatB
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:13pm

    Doesn’t sound like they took into account .. who was getting killed … those who are trying to commit crimes .. and not the law abiding citizens.

    “the possibility of bodily harm is probably more likely when you are committing a crime or invading someone’s home or property.”

    Probably??? If you break into my home .. or try to carjack me … you are “PROBABLY” going to get shot! My aim is very good .. you are going to .. pure and simple .. oh and notice the NRA Lifetime and Endowment stickers on BOTH before you try.

    Report Post »  
    • lukerw
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:26pm

      Just because of residence in Texas… does not mean one is not a Socialist/Liberal. Austin sucks!

      Report Post » lukerw  
    • Winedude
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:43pm

      Sorry Luke…Austin is by far the only place in Texas worth visiting. There’s nowhere in Texas that I would consider living (again, by the way)!

      Report Post »  
    • Fubared
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 9:53pm

      Austin is a great town, except for the retread hippies and aspiring artistes and poets. Liberal wankers detract from a really nice place.

      Report Post »  
    • AxelPhantom
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 10:35pm

      I live a ways outside of Austin and I’m with Luke, you couldn’t pay me to live IN that city. The last time I was there, I spent two hours in a movie theater sitting next to a kid with smelly dreadlocks (and no he was not black). Everytime he would move his head his hiddeous stench would float, I only gagged once.

      And cat,
      they also did not take into consideration that when a break/enter/robbery is interrupted, how often that crime remains unreported. Door gets busted in, owner comes out with his pump action 12g, primes the chamber and guy wets himself and takes off. Rather than dealing with the legal system, they just pay to have the door fixed.

      Report Post »  
    • bereal
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 11:34pm

      Here’s the scenario as I see it, you can continue to think T (travon) was up to no good.

      Z (Zimmerman) got out of his vehicle and approached T, was no doubt questioning T and T being a Black teenager took offense and no boubt responded with indignant remarks. T, is now being the aggressor; being much larger than Z, and Z ,now, not wanting the confrontation with the much larger and hostile person turned his back on him, going back to his truck, T sucker punched Z and the hot head T took over control.

      Report Post »  
  • Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:12pm

    How many times do we have to say it, guns don’t kill, BULLETs do. Plus if there weren’t any stupid criminals, there wouldn’t be a reason to pull your gun. Plus, Guns make a society a little more polite. Would you tell someone they are a Dummy, F-Bomb, and cut them off in traffic, or get in their face if you knew everyone carried a gun?

    Report Post » Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra  
  • Individualism
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:12pm

    We need to pass Indiana’s law across the country.

    Report Post » Individualism  
  • lukerw
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:11pm

    We are a Predator Species… and our Reactions to an Attack are: 1) Prey Mode; Freeze… 2) Panic; Run Away… 3) CounterAttack & Fight!. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LAW!

    Report Post » lukerw  
  • chameleonx
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:09pm

    I wish they would do this study where there are increased laws and how many deaths are as a result. You can see that in the picture they use the Republican elephant and the Wall St. as a cause of stand your ground laws. The picture couldn’t hint that it is wanting to promote whites are the ones who support these laws and kill innocent people. Stupid!

    Report Post »  
  • glorious
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:09pm

    Crazy. More craziness.

    Report Post »  
    • Welcome Black Carter
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 10:40pm

      “If” there are more deaths after the Castle Doctrine, that means it WORKS!! Who said it was designed to be a deterent? We have the death penalty… does that stop murders, no. It is the penalty for murder. It means we do not have to pay for your dental work forever.
      The penalty for breaking into my house is a look into a shotgun barrel. It is the last thing they will ever see. No trial, no open casket funeral…

      Report Post » Welcome Black Carter  
  • neocon1
    Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:08pm

    total BS
    SEVEN THOUSAND MURDERS in Fla since SYG,
    250 cases of SYG

    Report Post »  
    • Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
      Posted on June 12, 2012 at 8:46pm

      What they don’t say is the Dept that did this study at Texas A&M was the Liberal Arts and OWS Peace Love Dept. What they did was go tell the local cowboys they wanted to molest their children and shot their dog as they pulled an unloaded gun. Of course when the corner took away their friends, they wrote this study, their conclusion, is the Guns killed their friends. Liberal logic.

      Report Post » Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra  
    • RamonPreston
      Posted on June 13, 2012 at 9:32am

      You mean there would have been 250 MORE murders if they weren’t carrying?

      Report Post » RamonPreston  
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