Supreme Court Arguments Begin in Military Funeral Protest Case

WASHINGTON (AP) — The father of a Marine killed in Iraq is asking the Supreme Court to reinstate a $5 million verdict against members of a fundamentalist church who picketed his son’s funeral.

Members of the church group carried signs that read “Thank God for Dead Soldiers” and “God Hates the USA.”

The Supreme Court is hearing arguments Wednesday in the dispute between Albert Snyder of York, Pa., and members of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan. The case pits Snyder‘s right to grieve privately against the church members’ right to say what they want, no matter how offensive.

Westboro members say that U.S. deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq are punishment for Americans’ immorality, including tolerance of homosexuality and abortion.

Comments (144)

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  • victorymanns
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:57am

    fundamentalist church … CULT > thats the problem . maybe if they got there asses kicked they would wake up to the fact that they wrong . a good ass kicking does wonders to humble you .

    Report Post »  
  • Sgt. Greg
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:52am

    I would like to ask the protesters how they would feel about the military if this country and its freedoms were being attached, which they are. When I read about the protests, I was reminded of a speech from the movie “a few good men”. God Bless the Marines. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hopNAI8Pefg

    Report Post » Sgt. Greg  
  • jamesctheman
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:52am

    Let them come to a soldiers funeral here to protest. We don’t take to kindly to people dishonoring the military members & their families. It’s just so hateful & I believe this Church leader thinks it’s his destiny to make this statement & these protests. Manifest destiny anyone? How can this ever help the cause they want to promote. All it is a fringe & hopefully the courts will honor the troops by not allowing these people out to protest during service whether it be at the burial site or in the parking lot during service. After the families leave then they can chant all they want. Unfortunately the whole purpose is to attack the familes & I can‘t find anywhere in the gospel where that’s ok.

    Report Post » jamesctheman  
  • MichiganPatriot
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:41am

    They have the right to protest all the want. That is free speech. But to interupt a funeral is very disrespectful to the family and even more disrespectful to the nation because he was a soldier who died to allow them the freedoms they use to protest him and his family. that is how sick and twisted they are. God doesn’t hate anyone, who are they to say that. God is love. This is just more retarded retoric from people who do not have a clue to what they are doing. My opinion is that they are just a little coocoo for coco puffs. My heart goes out to the families of the fallen soldiers for their sacrifice for our freedom…God bless you and stay strong!

    Report Post » MichiganPatriot  
  • Bob_R_OathKeeper
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:38am

    People have the right to eat lead too and apparently they‘ve eaten their fair share and they’ll probably end up running from flying lead in the future. Being stupid will significantly shorten your lifespan. Semper Fi.

    Report Post » Bob_R_OathKeeper  
  • teotwawki
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:38am

    No doubt that these folks are annoying, and quite despicable to prey upon those who are grieving. But they have the right to their speech, just like most of the members of this board have the right to theirs. Just because you disagree with the substance of their speech doesn’t mean we should rule or legislate against it. You simply cannot have it both ways. Either all speech is protected or none will be.

    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out –
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out –
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out –
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me — and there was no one left to speak for me. -Niemoller

    Report Post »  
  • ltb
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:37am

    Westboro is not a church, it’s a family of hate-filled lunatics who wouldn’t know Jesus if he sat down to have dinner with them. The congregation is made up solely of blood relatives (i.e., the Phelps family) and their “church” has been denounced by every major Christian denomination in America.

    Report Post » ltb  
    • Hadassah
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 10:17am

      Thank you for making this clear. This is not the message that Jesus commanded his disciples to go forth with, His message is of such love that He chose to die for even people such as this.

      Report Post »  
  • Dustyluv
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:33am

    They have a right to free speech…They also have the right to be sued back to the stone age….

    Report Post »  
  • NEAF
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:32am

    I am a conservative Christian and I do not support what this “church” is doing. Even they have Rights to do it, does not make it Right. “Rights vs. Right”.

    Report Post » NEAF  
  • kidtruk
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:29am

    I live in the state where these goof balls reside. They are not Baptists in any true sense of the word. They made up their own church which is populated largely by one family of people who like to incite trouble and LOVE the attention they get from it. They are only Baptists because they stuck that name on their church.

    They give all true Christians a bad rap because they claim to have that label. Sadly, they like to push the envelope and many of their family are lawyers so they do know what they can get away with legally.

    I think if everyone would have ignored them when they first started “protesting” in Topeka years ago they would have gone away eventually. But the media just fuels their ego’s fire.

    Report Post »  
    • George Washington
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:38am

      The real name of their church is: The Church Of What’s Happening Now. True Christians would not visit pain on anyone who is grieving at a funeral.

      Report Post »  
  • JohnnyJT
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:20am

    Like I say to a woman who supports abortion,. You mother should of had one!

    Report Post » South Philly Boy  
  • veritas51322
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:20am

    I am all about free speech but this group gives Christians—especially Baptists a bad name. They are missing the spirit of the law by being so insensitive to the family of the deceased. They are missing the message of the Gospel. This protest should take place in front of a military headquarters…not a funeral. Pair this trial with the story on this web site questioning as to whether the Tea Party is too Christian and it certainly feeds the liberal arguments that the “relifious right:“ is crazy and ”right wing extreme”. The majority of the tea party, right and Christians do not behave nor think in this manner.

    Report Post »  
    • NoNannyState
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 10:08am

      That’s why it is so heavily covered in the media…as a way to portray these despicable beings as representative of Christianity as a whole.

      Report Post »  
  • Bigfoot
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:19am

    I normally wouldn’t suggest this:
    How about using a leftist strategy and organize protests in front of the members homes? Maybe even follow them to work (if they work).

    Report Post »  
    • ltb
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:42am

      The best tactic to use with these people would be groups of genuine Christians (i.e., people who have a relationship with Jesus) gathered in front of their so-called church, praying silently around the clock.

      Report Post » ltb  
  • CharlieB
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:19am

    Despite their right to free speech, this is despicable. This is just plain insulting and they know it. What happened to the “Hate Crimes” law that was passed? This should fall under that. If they want to protest they should do it at the Federal, State or Local government offices. Causing pain to the families who have lost a loved one does no good for their cause. Ultimately, they will be judged by God. Despite what the Supreme Court says, He will have the final say.

    Report Post »  
  • George Washington
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:15am

    There is a time and place for everything. The time for protesting is not during a funeral. Those who are grieving do not deserve the additional stress put upon them by a protest. There may be many reasons why you abhor the deceased. However, no matter how strong those reasons are, one does not have the right to punish many people for the transgressions of one individual. Yes, we all have the right to do whatever we wish. That is unless we physically or mentally harm others by doing so.

    Report Post »  
  • heidi586
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:13am

    I’m glad this is being heard by the SC. Is this free speech or a group possibly inciting violence? Where is the line? As I read up above…like yelling fire in a crowded theater. I know what the outcome would be if these people were to show up, God Forbid, at a funeral of a family member of mine….limb from limb that‘s all I’m saying.

    Report Post » heidi586  
  • michelepfaff
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:13am

    It is because this country is so great that they have the right to spread their filth. But I believe in karma and I know that one day they will get theirs.

    Report Post » MommaGrizzly  
  • torro1212
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:12am

    This is disgraceful and we can only hope that these idiots die a long and painful death when their time comes.

    Report Post » torro1212  
  • Grandfather Z
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:12am

    What is happening here is an example of moral jugdement. The so-called hate church does absolutly have the right to free speech, and that is not in dispute, what is does not have is the moral authority to place “judgement” upon the citizen soldiers protecting them of their speech. Thou shall not judge, least yea be judged.
    How this got all the way to the Supreme Court is beyond this devil dogs understanding of the issue. .

    Report Post »  
    • George
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 10:22am

      How it got to the Supreme Court? That’s easy. It HAD to go to the highest court in order for a decision to be rendered that would not be subject to appeal.

      Now it’s up to THEM to find a way to split this baby…

      I see no reason why they can’t come up with a decision that is creative…such as a funeral for a soldier/airman/Marine is a protected ceremony that does NOT allow such protests.

      I think they will find a way that goes a direction no one expects and accomplishes the objective of protecting free speech but extends military protection and effectively kills the protests.

      Report Post »  
  • TheMarine
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:11am

    I love (sarcastically) when the same freedom we fight for is used to dishonor those who are fighting.

    The church group was 100% wrong for what they did. It isn’t about political rights. It becomes about the purpose and reason that churches exist, which is to lead people to Christ. There are ZERO benefits to bringing people to Christ using these tactics, and it undermines the overall message taught in the Bible.

    This display of childish antics served absolutely no purpose.

    Semper Fi

    Report Post » TheMarine  
    • JNM_1986
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:24am

      THEMARINE – Very eloquently spoken and you definitely hit the nail on the head! Thank you for your sacrifice and service on my behave. God bless.

      Report Post »  
    • TrueGrit
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 10:41am

      As the father of 2 active duty Army/Air Force officers…
      I would not be able to maintain any civility if they were ever to protest anywhere near me
      if G-D forbid I have need of a Military Funeral.
      For myself and my service…I‘m almost ashamed they are claiming feedom fo ’hate’ speech.
      They have a right to protest…so do I. Maybe, just maybe I’ll protest the first death of one of their
      Church members….

      Wolverine

      Report Post »  
  • Anarcho Capitalist
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:05am

    they have the right to put there hand in the rat trap if they wish. I would hate to see the wrong guy get pissed off about this. It would not end well for the bible beaters.

    Report Post » Anarcho Capitalist  
    • Dustyluv
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:35am

      They aren’t Bible beaters. They know nothing of the LOVE of the Bible. They are LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES that use the Word of God as a weapon. STUPID PEOPLE!

      Report Post »  
  • wodiej
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:02am

    does free speech give someone the right to yell “fire” in a crowded movie theatre? NO. That was never the intent of free speech. These actions are hateful and evil.

    Report Post »  
    • Anarcho Capitalist
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:09am

      yelling fire in a theater is in violation of the owners property rights, the customers property rights and a breach of contract. It has nothing to do with free speech. No right can exist that destroys another. Read defending the undependable.

      Report Post » Anarcho Capitalist  
    • NoName22
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:19am

      Cemeteries are government owned correct? Now if the cemetery is privately owned, then based on your argument of “yelling fire in the theatre,” interrupting the grieving process, would be the same I would think.

      This case is a tough cookie. I really don’t know, good thing I’m not a judge.

      Report Post »  
    • SheriS
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 11:38am

      Unfortunately, many of these funerals are held in churches. We had one recently in our area. Thank heaven for the biker group who lined the road in front of the protestors and shielded the family from having to see them! THANK GOD FOR THE BRAVE BIKERS! I’ve read they try to do this for all the families!

      Report Post »  
    • dougcoburn
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 11:47am

      If they are allowed to protest in the name of their religion on government owned properties, then I want our religious right to put up a nativity scene on public property. You can’t have it both ways. These protester are evil but I don’t see what grounds the SCOTUS could use to rule against them (I admit I don‘t know the details of the case so maybe I’m missing something). However a simple law or local ordinance entitling grieving individuals to peace and quiet including at the cemetery would be both constitutional and precedented. Haven’t you ever seen the cops get called to a noisy party to tell them to quiet down. Cities have noise ordinances weather you are standing on a public sidewalk or on your private property. I worry about infringing on a religion’s right to practice and speak freely even when we can see that they are absolutely wrong. It is the job and and the right of good religions to speak out against evil in society and call people to repentance (which is also never a popular thing and bound to offend someone). I think cities and counties have the right to make reasonable rules restricting this behavior as long as there are reasonable alternate venues for their speech and the rules are non-discriminatory.

      Report Post »  
    • Libertarian
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 3:41pm

      Actually, free speech does give an individual the “right” to say anything. Damages, if proved can be reconciled in the judicial system. You do not need a law to say one cannot scream “fire” in a crowded theater simply because of the potential to injure. The reason speech has become less free is because our legislators, legislate as a result of an incident (like yelling “fire” in a crowded theater). Another example is the 1988 federal ban on lawn darts, it was a legislative response to a few deaths nationwide.

      You cannot abridge or infringe rights (speech) simply because of safety or prevention. Speech should not be banned, let a jury decide if the speech incurred physical or financial damage to a person or entity. The more we allow legislators the ability to infringe our rights because of “potential damage”, the more rights we lose as individuals.

      The nut cases in this story should not be allowed at the funeral, permits should be granted in public cemetery’s for families involved. Outside of the cemetery any person should be allowed to protest anything they want, as vile as their message is.

      Each reaction to speech should be judged on its own merit.

      That is free speech.

      Report Post » Libertarian  
  • RichardSaunders
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 8:57am

    Common Sense and an old English fundamental basis of law is this: “Your right to swing your fist, ends where it hits my nose”. The (wrong-headed, perhaps non-defend-able) “church group” has the right to voice their opinions … they just shouldn’t be allowed to voice that opinion at the site of a fallen soldiers private family moment of grief. Spout your vile at a location that doesn’t “hit the family in the nose” !!!!

    Report Post » RichardSaunders  
    • cubber
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:03am

      That is a local government and / or business decision.

      Report Post » cubber  
    • Huckabee Gingrich 12
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 11:38am

      @CUBBER
      Your eloquence and intellectual prowess is “wowing” the crap out of me. You may want to consider becoming Obama’s next press secretary. Typical of a liberal, you aren’t able to see the bigger picture. Rights come with responsibilities. When one exercises their right to do something, they assume the responsibility for the consequences of their actions. The right to free speech is not absolute. The Supreme Court has already ruled on this and will soon rule again, and I predict WBC will pay through the nose. Hopefully this will put them out of business.

      Report Post » Huckabee Gingrich 12  
  • billwill
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 8:56am

    These people clearly do not understand the Bible. God does not hate soldiers or the USA. This church is liberals in disguise!

    Report Post »  
  • cubber
    Posted on October 6, 2010 at 8:55am

    They have a right to free speech. Next subject.

    Report Post » cubber  
    • shotgun
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:14am

      The protesters are going to hell. What trash they are. Liberal trash a maggot wouldn’t even eat.

      Report Post » shotgun  
    • CharlieB
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:15am

      They may have the right, but that doesn’t make what they are doing right. What they are doing is hateful and hurtful. That is not of God. They are hypocrites.

      Report Post »  
    • 5
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:30am

      She look like a WITCH.

      Report Post »  
    • ME
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:48am

      Say fire in a crowded theater and see how that 1st amendment works out for you? Nothing is free even speech and it all carry consequence of one kind or another. Just call my wife a name and see what happens from me and her:) There right of free speech does not trample others peoples rights to life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness. Pursuit of happiness is having a final days with your child that served this country in peace.

      Report Post » ME  
    • ME
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 9:56am

      should have been day and not only served but gave his life for this country

      Report Post » ME  
    • Hadassah
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 10:15am

      The right to free speech without respect or regard for others is simply hate speech and will be ignored by most. That church has already been dubbed a group of lunatics. Do they really believe anyone will listen to their rhetoric?

      Report Post »  
    • Midwest Belle
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 10:24am

      Yes they have the RIGHT to protest but is it WISE? NO!

      Report Post » Midwest Blonde  
    • sodun
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 10:27am

      Unfortunately most religions have their COOKS. It’s to bad these “Christians” appear not to have read the NEW testament of Jesus Christ. See the word CHRIST in Christian? True Christians strive to be more ‘Christ-like‘ hence the tern ’Christ-ian’. I somehow doubt I’d see Jesus delighting over the death on ANYONE.

      Report Post » sodun  
    • ARealEagleScout
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 10:55am

      True. But you don’t scream fire in a theater, you don’t say “bomb” on an airplane.
      A solider died to give them the rights to be the pitiful, uniformed, and irresponsible persons they are.

      Report Post »  
    • cvs334
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 10:57am

      Yep they do have the right … they also have right to pay damages for emotional distress from their freedom.

      Report Post »  
    • Workmatic
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 11:22am

      Replace “Soldier” with the “N” word, and it’s hate speech and against the law…

      Workmatic  
    • 1arcocat
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 11:27am

      These protesters are traitors to the country & our servicemen, but free speech is an Americans right & it must be protected, its one of the reasons we are willing to die for our country. Hired assasins should also be a legal right in this case.

      Report Post »  
    • sabichan
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 11:43am

      I’m sure plenty of progressives would argue that The Blaze, or Beck, or [insert your favorite pundit here] is trampling on their rights and the rights of others, is only pushing fear and hate speech, and should be banned. Wait, that’s what they are already arguing.

      If these people are on private land, sure, the owners of the private location has the right to get them off their land.

      As absolutely reprehensible as those people are (and I can’t stress reprehensible enough), how can we censor them and then expect the supreme court to uphold 1st amendment rights for others?

      Report Post »  
    • CoFX
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 12:05pm

      This is not an issue of free speech, it is an issue of harassment. It is not practical, nor should it be neccessary, to hold a funeral service on private land. The issue is, should these people be allowed to harass a religous gathering. To me, that is a hate crime, regardless of what kind of religous gathering it is. Regardless of if you can classify it as a hate crime, if people feel threatened in a public place, it’s still harassment. In my state, harassment is a misdemeanor, this is how it is defined:

      “Harassment can be committed in a variety of ways, including striking or otherwise making physical contact with another in the absence of pain, use of obscene language or gestures in a public place, following a person, making an obscene phone call, initiating repeated communications, or using fighting language. In order to amount to harassment, these acts must be committed with the intent to harass, annoy, or alarm the alleged victim.”

      To me, that gives police the authority to at the very least detain these people and charge them with harassment. This is not like a political rally or protest for or against a policy – the intent is clearly directed at a group of private citizens.

      Report Post » Rogue  
    • Lucy Larue
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 12:37pm

      How cavalier of Cubber to say…., they have the right and let’s move on. Wow! What empathy!
      This is HATE SPEECH! It shouldn’t have the protection of the first amendment.

      Report Post »  
    • Austin from boston
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 12:43pm

      You & your Crowd have an Absolute Right to go to Hell any-way You Choose.>>>>Fry & Bye!!

      Report Post » Austin from boston  
    • Mr.Citrus
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 1:04pm

      ( sighs )… My heart really goes out to this man and his family… I wish those people would chose to protest something else and make there point… I feel this one is similar discussion to the Ground Zero Site.. Meaning yeah I know its your right to protest this and speak your mind… but are you without the respect of this mans loss? Its a really sad day in our country when our neibors come out and say things like this at a MANS DECEASED SONS FUNERAL…… very sad to me… But ultimately … even if they protested an individual under all the circumstances. It makes my throat clinch to say, I support our Constitution as it stands.

      Report Post » Mr.Citrus  
    • mbfromit
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 1:36pm

      CHUBBER: I guess they have a right to free speech, unless of course they were protesting Sharia law or Islam! In that case, it’s just hate speech and must be silenced! Right CHUBBER? I mean we can’t have people going around speaking bad about Mohammed now can we? Personally, I think these country hating morons should be waterboarded!

      Report Post »  
    • sabichan
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 2:21pm

      @COFX

      Were threats made? Did they do anything that caused the grievers to feel that they were about to be injured at anytime? If so, absolutely get the police to come over and arrest them for harassment. As far as obscene language, that’s pretty subjective. That’s why people sue for slander rather than try to get people arrested.

      Secondly, people protest religious gatherings all the time, and yes, it should be protected as long as they don’t cross the line and start threatening people – no, “you’ll go to hell” does not count as a threat. I’ve seen people protest religion, I’ve seen them protest my religion, and I still say they have a right to do it.

      I‘d be the first person out there during one of these protests with a sign thanking the soldier for his sacrifice and I’d raise my voice louder than anyone about it. I can’t begin to imagine the pain that these families go through and I think that an organization raising their voices at these gatherings in support of the families would be wonderful. I’d gladly be a part.

      Report Post »  
    • Lexi
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 8:42pm

      is it right that these people should condemn the very men who fight and lay down their lives for those people’s freedom to say those awful thing? My brother is a Marine, and believe me, he literally gives his life over to the USMC. the least they can do is not be bum-faces. but more importantly, should their right to free speech be able to trample this man’s right to grieve privately for son? i think not.

      Report Post » Lexi  
    • Nosnomis82
      Posted on October 6, 2010 at 8:43pm

      He is a stronger man than me. I think i would have shot everyone in thatcrowd. Would i be wise or logical, no. But after loosing a child there might not be much reason left in a person.

      Report Post »  
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