‘The Year of the Bible?’: Atheists Angry That PA Politician Thinks So
- Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:16am by
Billy Hallowell
- Print »
- Email »
During a time when atheist groups are vehemently targeting any and all instances of faith and government intermingling, politicians in Pennsylvania have made a bold proclamation. Last week, the state’s House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution (H.R. 535) declaring 2012 the “Year of the Bible.”
This specific, Christian declaration is more symbolic than it is binding, but the official nature of the announcement is attracting attention. While it is ceremonial in nature, the pledge does raise some important considerations. WGAL.com reports:
Beyond questions about whether any other holy book would be honored by state lawmakers in a similar way, News 8 political analyst Dr. G. Terry Madonna said there are also fair questions about a government spending time on these types of measures when they can’t seem to agree on other pressing issues.
“This nation faces great challenges that will test it as it has never been tested before … and renewing our knowledge of and faith in God through Holy Scripture can strengthen us as a nation and a people…”
Already, atheists are responding to the the bold move. In an interview with Examiner.com, Patrick Elliot, a staff attorney for the Freedom From Religion Foundation, said:
“It is shocking that House leadership would classify this as a ‘noncontroversial resolution’ and put it to a vote. It is even more astounding that representatives would pass this. It seems that either they did not know what they were voting on or they were intentionally interfering with the rights of conscience of their constituents in violation of the U.S. Constitution. This is a blatant violation. [...]
Once the government enters into the religion business, conferring endorsement and preference for some religions over others, it strikes a blow at religious liberty, forcing taxpayers of all faiths and of no religion to support a particular religious view.”
The following was also written on the Americans United for Separation of Church and State blog:
One of the great ironies of this situation is that Pennsylvania was founded as a refuge for those seeking religious tolerance. In his “holy experiment,” William Penn famously welcomed religious dissenters of many different stripes to his colony. He thought God, not government, was the “only Lord of Conscience.”
It’s a shame that today the Pennsylvania House has turned its back on that admirable tradition and sent a message of intolerance to those who do not share the majority faith.
Watch a WGAL-TV report for more about this controversy:
It seems the battle over just how far politicians can go when it comes to faith and religion is, as we’ve noted many times before, far from over.
(H/T: WGAL)
Popular Stories
Paper Details Obama Admin’s Alleged Secret Note Sent to Iran: If Israel Attacks, We Won’t Get Involved 587 Comments
‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 414 Comments
This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 414 Comments
President Obama Issues Major ‘Green Energy’ Executive Order 378 Comments
Roseanne Barr: Most Billionaires ‘Violent Pedophiles’ & ‘Heartless’ Cocaine Addicts 375 Comments
Faith
- This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 414 Comments
Pakistani Muslim Cleric Accused of Framing Disabled Christian Girl in Koran-Burning Case Read More- ‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 414 Comments
Meet the Controversial German Imam Accused of Brutally Beating His Wife & Pushing Sharia Law Read More
‘Self-Proclaimed Messiah’ & Unification Church Leader the Rev. Sun Myung Moon Has Died — Here’s His Life Story Read More
Business
- President Obama Issues Major ‘Green Energy’ Executive Order 378 Comments
- Germany’s Upcoming Court Ruling Will be Huge for the EU Read More
Ford Looks to Beat Toyota for Best-Selling Car in 2012 With This Model 151 Comments
Bernanke & QE3: Here’s What You Need to Know Read More- ‘Extortion’: Why Did the Labor Department ‘Drop the Hammer’ on Oregon Farmers? 303 Comments
Technology
- This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 414 Comments
‘TaserDrone’: Hackers Weaponize Quadcopter With Actual ‘Shocking’ Technology Read More
Ever Heard of the Wild ‘Burning Man’ Festival in the Middle of the Nev. Desert? Here’s Your Primer Read More
Stanford Develops Technology ‘Better Than Steroids’ for Athlete Recovery Read More
Have You Pretended to Know What ‘the Cloud’ Is? You’re Not Alone Read More
Submitting your tip... please wait!
Comments (193)
sister1_rm
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:48amIt should have been the year of the Bible every year from the beginning. Maybe some civility and education would have been preserved in the American mind.
As for the Atheists who are so offended, remember you are still a minority and under the protection and tolerance of a very large majority. No one is obligated to move Heaven and Earth (if you’ll pardon the expression) to make you comfortable and happy. No one is obligated to right every perceived wrong you’ve suffered. For your own part, you have the right to make your own schools, vote in line with your own reasoning, and worship (or not) according to your own conscience. Welcome to the free world.
Report Post »GIDEON612
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 12:21pmMake every morning a Bible morning and your life will change.
Report Post »Elena2010
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 2:06pmWell said, Sister!
Personally, as a practicing Christian, I do not get too worked up abt fairy tale books being read to youngsters, etc. Nobody is demanding the atheists read the Bible either, so why are they getting their panties in a twist if I do read?
Report Post »americanidiot
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 2:29pmLets see, I believe it says that Jesus sat down at the right hand of the father. Would you sit down if you weren’t done yet? NO, I don’t think so. There are no old testament laws that apply to us anymore… we are completely free. That is a great thing for all that believe and for those who don’t well… May god’s blessing always be with you
Report Post »Clive
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 2:44pm“Last week, the state’s House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution (H.R. 535) declaring 2012 the “Year of the Bible.”
I’m a devout catholic, still, i feel like passing this resolution is a waste of lawmakers time, and in effect, the taxpayers money. what does this accomplish, anything?
Report Post »1ClassicLiberal
Posted on February 5, 2012 at 2:22pmSister you are correct, but you forget that the Atheists are the crusading Storm Troopers of the State Religion of America and as such wield the power of Secularism backed by the nation’s Judiciary, the high priests of the Secular Religion. With their Golden Tenet, ‘Separation of Church and State’ flying in the face of real Constitutional Law, they step on any Constitutional Amendment that hinders their quest to eradicate Christianity through the power of the Courts. What PA did is in direct concert with what the Founders believed. George Washington said, “Of all the dispositions and habits that lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensible supports.”
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:28amWhat does it even mean when you say “year of the bible”? Most of the 613 Old Testament laws are not even followed anymore [even though "the word of the lord is perfect" and "god never changes"]. The New Testament has some good things in there, . . . but its bottom line is “believe this or be tortured”. So, shouldn’t be “the year of PARTS of the bible that are fluffy and not controversial in nature”? That is what most churches preach. :-/
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:47am…shouldn’t IT be….
Report Post »Jackie Rogers, Jr.
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:48am“god never changes”. You may see that as a Christian tenet, but I’m not sure all Christians would agree with it. God must somehow be mutable or everything is pre-determined and we don’t have free will
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:57am“What does it even mean when you say “year of the bible”? Most of the 613 Old Testament laws are not even followed anymore [even though "the word of the lord is perfect" and "god never changes"].”
what part of fulfilled do you not understand?
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 10:19amThe Bible is the Word of God..Jesus/Yeshua is known as “The Word” John 1 declares who Jesus is.. He was with God the Father from the foundations of the world. everything was created by Him ..for Him and through Him and without Him nothing was created.. In Hebrews 1 God the Father confirms himself as God Supreme and He calls Jesus..His only begotten Son..God.. He says…”God..your God (speaking to Jesus.. Jesus..the one who was..who is.. and is to come. was born of a virgin..took upon Himself the sins of the world.himself being sinless..was crucified for those sins..rose the third day..giving all who accept this truth and who’s heart is changed…life eternal.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 10:25am“The New Testament has some good things in there, . . . but its bottom line is “believe this or be tortured””
Nah, the bottom line is “believe this and live forever, or else death is the end.” Hell, as most fundamentalist sects describe it, is a made-up concept stemming mostly from early church doctrine and terrible translations (first and foremost, the King James Version, which conflates Sheol, Hades, Tartarus, and Gehenna all into “Hell”). In the Gospels, using the proper words, Hell is meant as dying, the agony of being away from God and not living with Him forever. If you were tortured forever, you’d still have eternal life. Jesus offered finality of death or living forever.
@Rush
“what part of fulfilled do you not understand?”
How is a law fulfilled? You can’t reasonably say all the OT laws are gone; almost everyone agrees the Commandments still stand. But He definitely overthrew others, such as stoning adulterers, or washing before meals.
Report Post »expatinontariocanada
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 10:26am@ JR, jr. God does what God does. God knows what God knows. Omniscience. God knows God’s will. God’s will be done. We have free will and our goal, at least for God-loving, Christ-following Christians, is to apply and align our free will with God’s will. Think of God’s will like goal posts. If we can confine our exercise of free will within God’s goal posts/boundaries (ten commandments, right instead of wrong, etc.) we’ve “cracked the code” to living right. Sometimes God’s will (goal posts) are real close together, like when His plan for us is quite specific, there’s something He wants/needs us to do. Then we better listen, listen with our hearts, because all our decisions have consequences. God bless you!
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 10:35amSo. . . then stop hating on homosexuals. They are no longer outside the law of god. Right?
Besides:
“For verily I say unto you, untill heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment. But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, YOU FOOL, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
How many christians love using the erroneous Psalms 14:1?
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 10:36amRegardless, “UNTIL heaven and earth pass away, not one tittle of the law will pass……” and as you can see, the earth is still here. What verse do you use that shows that “all the law was fulfilled”? Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.” Destroy NOT! Fulfill, . . . to carry out, bring to realization, to perform, to obey…
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 11:53am“what part of fulfilled do you not understand?”
How is a law fulfilled? You can’t reasonably say all the OT laws are gone; almost everyone agrees the Commandments still stand. But He definitely overthrew others, such as stoning adulterers, or washing before meals.
”
actually He didn‘t ’overthrow’ those….I don’t know where you get this at…
we don’t follow the ceremonial law…because He fulfilled it….doesn’t mean He declared adultery not to be a sin….
and if a country wants to stone adulterers, there is nothing in the bible that forbids that.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 11:54am“So. . . then stop hating on homosexuals. They are no longer outside the law of god. Right?”
why is disagreeing with the fascist homosexual agenda hating them?
why do the gays want to take our rights to disagree with them away?
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 11:57am“Fulfill, . . . to carry out, bring to realization, to perform, to obey…”
simple english…
ful·fill also ful·fil (fl-fl)
tr.v. ful·filled, ful·fill·ing, ful·fills also ful·fils
1. To bring into actuality; effect: fulfilled their promises.
2. To carry out (an order, for example).
3. To measure up to; satisfy. See Synonyms at perform, satisfy.
4. To bring to an end; complete.
notice number 4
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 12:43pmSo, your interpretation states that ONLY #4 is the correct answer and the other 3 are not.
It still makes little difference. Where “god never changes” and “his word is perfect”, what is condoned or what is seen as “an abomination” at one point in god’s history, it should be the same at ALL points in history, including today. There are laws to follow, according to god’s word. Fulfill them!
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 12:44pmI think the point is The Sacrifice. The Law was designed to convinct of sin. Sin requires death. Christ fulfilled that Sacrifice once and FOR ALL. This is what was meant by fulfilling of The Law. The Law brings death, Christ brings life. Pretty simple concept if you don’t spend time trying to tear it apart with the limitations of mortal understnding.
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 12:59pm…“convict” and “understanding.” This comment section needs spell check, because I’m an awful speller.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 1:09pm@Rush
As you’re using “to bring to an end” as a definition, you’re saying he “ended” all the laws in the OT? Including the Commandments?
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 1:36pmSo I guess my metaphorical sins are forgiven too then?
Oh, I forgot. Only those who believe that these stories ARE real and give their life over to that concept are forgiven. That’s why I left the church. It is immoral to expect people to believe the word of other people or be tortured.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 1:47pmStill, it DOES say that the laws will not be done away with until the earth is gone. Animal sacrifice may not be required anymore, but it doesn’t make the LAWS moral. And the law wasn’t just about “sin issues”. How about the laws that showed who you can take as slaves? Even the New Testament spoke to the slavery issue and how a slave should be towards a cruel master. 1 Peter 2:18.
It is a “pick and choose” religion, and that’s fine if people would like to change their religion by chucking out the immoral stuff. I personally think that MANY sections of the bible were specifically created out of the minds of men. If you can convince yourself that “a god is telling you to have these conquered nations as slaves, why others should be wiped out completely, etc”, then it could be simple to see these passages for what they are, men wanting power and using superstition in their favor.
If you’re about “helping others”, “the golden rule”, the “fruits of the spirit”, even the “love verses” in 1 Corinthians 13. Those can be good things. Fellowship of people can be quite positive. But the bible itself should be seen NOT as “the word of god”, but a look into the primative mindset the people in ancient palestine had. But their words are NOT worthy of celebrating.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 2:04pm“It still makes little difference. Where “god never changes” and “his word is perfect”, what is condoned or what is seen as “an abomination” at one point in god’s history, it should be the same at ALL points in history, including today. There are laws to follow, according to god’s word. Fulfill them!”
really? you miss the entire point of the bible, which is we CANNOT fulfill the law…thats why Jesus came.
do you really think homosexuality, for example, is not a sin today? hmmmm???
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 2:05pm“As you’re using “to bring to an end” as a definition, you’re saying he “ended” all the laws in the OT? Including the Commandments?”
He fulfilled them….ie ended the law as it applies to us….so in other words, we have all broken the law…the penalty is death, eternal death….Jesus ended the law and its penalty against us. He also ended the ceremonial law….He didn’t say the moral law does not apply…sin is sin….
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 2:13pm“How about the laws that showed who you can take as slaves? Even the New Testament spoke to the slavery issue and how a slave should be towards a cruel master. 1 Peter 2:18″
slavery was different in biblical times than it is now….in fact the type of slavery we are familiar with was forbidden in the bible.
“He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death.” (Exodus 21:16)
and of course who ended slavery? christians, not muslims and definately not atheists.
“but it doesn’t make the LAWS moral. And the law wasn’t just about “sin issues”
where is the law immoral? this should be good…
“I personally think that MANY sections of the bible were specifically created out of the minds of men.”
no one cares what you think.
“Animal sacrifice may not be required anymore”
oh yeah Paul used the bible to TAKE OVER the ROMAN EMPIRE…
I mean you’re beyond laughable.
“why others should be wiped out completely, etc”
yeah the Lord did tell the jews to wipe people out…and when they didn’t they regreted it….you haven’t read revelation have you? the Lord raises nations up, and destroys them.
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 2:14pmRush – 2 Corinthians 4:4. We can do no good by arguing with Deavonreye. He is in the hands of God, not us.
Report Post »MarsBarsTru7
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 2:38pm“believe this or be tortured”. – Excuse me? Please reference where in the New Testament that this is what Christianity is about.
Christianity is about truth, peace, love, forgiveness, honesty, honoring family, charity, and most of all, honoring and loving God. Christianity mandates free will. It is against torture. It is for accountability. This country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and it is the values of those beliefs reflected in the Constitution that gives each of us our rights. It doesn’t matter what your belief system is, if you live in the United States you owe your freedoms to Judeo-Christian beliefs.
And this expression of religious solidarity by the Pennsylvania state legislature is not a violation of anyone’s Constitutional right to Freedom of Religion. No one is being forced to follow any specific organized religion. Forced secularization is not the equivalent of the Freedom of Religion. It is the forced absence of religion altogether.
How about instead of trying to find ways to bash Christianity you show some gratitude to Christians for once in your misguided life for the freedoms you enjoy because they believe in God and believe that God wills that we Christians afford them to you.
Report Post »MarsBarsTru7
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 2:46pmOh yeah, and thank you for bringing up the slave issue. I’d like for you to do something. Try to find a single Bible verse that states God wants Jews and/or Christians to have slaves. Try to find a Bible verse where it states that God says that it is good to have slaves.
I can save you some time on that if you’re willing to believe me. The Bible doesn’t have a single verse in it where God endorses the institution of slavery. What God does do is mandate that if slaves are kept, that they are treated well and fairly. God’s law specifically prohibited the selling or buying of slaves or the treatment of slaves as livestock, by penalty of death.
In the New Testament slavery is addressed to express that God does not care what your station in life is. It doesn‘t matter if you’re a slave or a rich man or just a regular Joe. God judges us by what’s inside us. ALL have sinned and need His forgiveness and the Salvation of Jesus.
It wasn’t an endorsement of slavery. The New Testament says quite the opposite, as it mandates that we treat others as we would want to be treated. That we are to love our neighbors as ourselves. That we are to love even our enemies. How is that consistent with slavery? It’s not. And that is why Christians were the first to abolish slavery and Christianity was instrumental in eliminating slavery from most of the world.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 2:47pmRush_is_right, . . . I see you have attempted to justify the horrors of the Old Testament. You are wrong about biblical slavery. Tell me how moral it is to conquer a nation, kill the men and women who are not virgins, and keep the younger virgin girls for yourselves? Show me how “giving the woman you captured a month to grieve the loss of her family and culture before ‘making her your wife’” is somehow good just BECAUSE you granted her that time?
Feel free to believe your church’s doctrines, but they are not moral. As for homosexuals, many of them practice immoral actions. So do heterosexuals. I would never be gay, and often times don’t understand those who are, but many of them love just as deeply as those who are straight. I don’t care what the bible says against them. The bible is filled with all sorts of god condoned immorality.
Furthermore, the god itself is not guiltless. Innocent humans were murdered. . . . their life taken away. Before I am to be condemned for what I do, god needs to answer for its OWN actions and imperfections.
It is immoral to condone ANY type of slavery. . . . infanticide. . . . genocide, . . . killing/stoning people for being a witch, unruly, touching something holy. . . . . . . AND the requirements of women seen as “unclean, requiring sin offerings JUST BECAUSE they gave birth”. And more was required if a GIRL was birthed. Primative nonsense.
Report Post »Clive
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 2:49pmso this year is the year of the bible… and next year … isnt?
this is stupid resolution meant to pander to stupid people, and by reading the reactions this board, it looks like it worked. you deserve a pat on the back, congrats dummies!
Report Post »MarsBarsTru7
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 3:23pm@DEAVONREYE – The New Testament lays out a clear morality for humankind, offering an equal opportunity for Salvation for any who would accept. Sin is still sin. But, now there is redemption for sin. Just attempt to conceive the type of being that God is. We can not begin to fathom all there is to know about Him or all there is to know about our existence. Our existence is limited to our individual perception. What God offers is a connection to Him, and messages of hope. Meanwhile, we’re left to our own free will to choose what he offers. If you believe in Him, you understand that there is no way that we can understand all of His ways. You hear His message, and do your best in your limited glimpse of this existence.
The morality of Judaism and Christianity is clear and absolute. God made it so. There is no conflict. You simply either believe or you do not believe. Attempting to find fault will only lead you back to square one. And this is absolutely true for an atheist, who has no moral foundation to begin with. Where does an atheist even begin to assume a position to take in a theological debate? There is no point, and it’s end result is profound hypocrisy.
Absolute atheism is embracing oblivion. It is a belief that rejects “why?” Without even acknowledging purpose there is no reason to exist. Without a reason to exist there is no reason to contend with those who have a reason to exist. You’re out of your depth.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 3:27pmmarsbars, . . . ““believe this or be tortured”. – Excuse me? Please reference where in the New Testament that this is what Christianity is about.”
Ummmm. . . . Mark 16:16? If you are unaware of that one, I can understand how you missed where it was stated who can be enslaved. It matters not that you don’t find a verse that says, “I, your god, say, be sure to take slaves because I want you to.” The point is, the bible makes it clear that god condoned the taking of slaves AND keeping virgin girls “for wives”. Show me a verse that says, “I, your god, say to you, . . . STOP enslaving those you conquer!!”
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 3:41pm“Rush_is_right, . . . I see you have attempted to justify the horrors of the Old Testament. ”
horrors? LOL I have justified them…if the Lord wants to destroy a nation, or people, then by definition its right.
“You are wrong about biblical slavery.”
no actually I’m right.
“Show me how “giving the woman you captured a month to grieve the loss of her family and culture before ‘making her your wife’” is somehow good just BECAUSE you granted her that time? ”
you are lying about that verse…..
Deuteronomy 21
11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife.
there is nothing about FORCING her to be your wife….
and if the marraige doesn’t work out…
14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.
“Feel free to believe your church’s doctrines, but they are not moral.”
oh and YOU are the arbitor of what is moral and not…why again??
“but many of them love just as deeply as those who are straight.”
pedohpiles do too…so I guess we should grant them special rights, and take away rights from those who disagree with them, rigth??
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 3:45pm“The bible is filled with all sorts of god condoned immorality.”
oh yeah you get to judge God…NOT….it doesn’t work that way…sorry.
“Furthermore, the god itself is not guiltless. Innocent humans were murdered. . . . their life taken away. Before I am to be condemned for what I do, god needs to answer for its OWN actions and imperfections. ”
the hubris and arrogance,…laughable. God gave them their life…its HIS to take away….get a clue. He doesn’t answer to you or anyone else..and your morality is far inferior to His.
“It is immoral to condone ANY type of slavery”
oh yeah says the atheist, whose religion has enslaved BILLIONS. laughable.
“. . . . infanticide. . . . genocide, . . . killing/stoning people for being a witch, unruly, touching something holy. . . . . . . AND the requirements of women seen as “unclean, requiring sin offerings JUST BECAUSE they gave birth”. And more was required if a GIRL was birthed. Primative nonsense.”
you know I think the same about your atheist beliefs…primitive nonsense..especially your racist atheist fairy tale known as evolution.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 3:47pm“horrors? LOL I have justified them…if the Lord wants to destroy a nation, or people, then by definition its right. ”
And with this, the discussion is pretty much over. Your god can do nothing wrong. He can murder and it is fine. . . because he did it. It is “might makes right”. Job was correct all along. Thanks for the insight.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 4:16pm“And with this, the discussion is pretty much over. Your god can do nothing wrong. He can murder and it is fine. . . because he did it. It is “might makes right”. Job was correct all along. Thanks for the insight.”
you didn‘t read God’s answer to Job…and you trying to judge Him is laughable…you don’t have the wisdom, obviously and you sure don’t have the right.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 4:17pmoh and no surprise you couldn’t answer any of my points…
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 4:31pmI answered. . . you just refused to see it because you are blinded by indoctrination. Killing is immoral regardless of whether or not a “superbeing” does it.
And for what god told Job, most of it was ridiculous non-scientific nonsense that ACTUALLY demonstrates that the book of Job was ONLY written by primative, uneducated, bronze age people who had no idea about the natural world they lived in. It is ridiculous to suggest that “I couldn’t answer them”, since what was written is nonsensical.
Please, tell me what I didn’t answer. One at a time, please.
Report Post »MarsBarsTru7
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 4:38pm@DEAVONREYE
RUSH_IS_RIGHT is doing a great job of taking you to task. You have no refutation to make. You’re an atheist engaging in theology. Right from the start it’s hypocritical. On top of that, how do you assume to question the morality of a God that you profess you do not believe in? You can’t debate theistic concepts as an atheist. You have no grounds for a debate concerning morality. If you were to take an intellectually honest position at all it should be anti-morality, as morality itself is a concept contradictory to atheism.
Why? = God. Why? = Religion. Why? = Morality. God = Religion. God = Morality. Religion = Morality.
No-purpose = No God. No-purpose = No religion. No-purpose = No morality. No God = No religion. No God = No morality. No religion = No morality.
Any concept atheists have of morality is simply an adoption of the religious moral beliefs of the culture surrounding them, and then it becomes tradition, not morality. An atheist has nothing but ambiguous motives of survival, propagation, and hedonism. The only justification for adhering to religious morality through tradition is survival. An absolute atheist is a nihilist/oblivionist.
Report Post »MarsBarsTru7
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 4:51pm@DEAVONRYE
What is funny and tragic is that you are attempting to use Judeo-Christian concepts of morality to judge God Himself, the source of where that morality comes from. God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. There is no possible way that a human being could judge God’s morality. If you believe in Him, you believe Him to be the source of existence itself. He is the Creator. Morality comes from Him. He says He knows the hearts and minds of men. Judgement on who is to die and who is not to die is up to Him. And life and death in this mortal existence isn’t the limit of existence. We do not know the limits of existence.
You have no foundation on which to judge God. One theist may challenge another on theological issues, but an atheist is automatically disqualified from levying moral judgement because they don’t believe. It’s like a blind person arguing about the color of the sky. You have no clue what you’re talking about. Until you acknowledge absolute morality, there is no room for you to debate what is moral and what is not. From your position murder and rape could be wrong today and a moment later be right and it doesn’t make a difference.
Like I said, you’re out of your depth.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 5:04pmMarsbars, you have no idea what my background is. I am not out of my element. I am quite aware of the concepts you believe to be “moral”. I was a christian for ~20 years and have studied the bible at length. What you all are doing is promoting an aire of religious superiority because you can’t answer the actual issues I have raised besides “if god kills people, it is right”. You have NOTHING on me in this regard, . . . so please don’t make yourself all puffed up thinking that you have me at a disadvantage.
Also, I am agnostic. I have no idea if there are gods, goddesses, or whatever. I only post here because I think it is ridiculous to have “a year of the bible” when there is so much immorality condoned in it.
There is little reason to continue with this debate. You all “know that you know that you know you are right”. There isn’t anything that either side will convince the other on. Please . . . continue to believe in your “religious superiority” if you want.
Report Post »MarsBarsTru7
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 5:22pm@DEAVONREYE – I‘m going to step into Rush’s shoes for a minute.
Report Post »“And with this, the discussion is pretty much over. Your god can do nothing wrong.” YES! That’s exactly the point. God is beyond reproof. He is the reason for existence itself. He is the source of the very definition of morality. Without God, there is no morality (the same can be said of other religions – without their gods, there is no morality).
“you are blinded by indoctrination.”
No. The problem is you don’t even get the substance of this discussion. Do you think this is the first time people have discussed these topics? It’s time to start absorbing and coming to terms with reality. Absolute atheism is a rejection of “why?”. Why else would you reject something that if you didn’t believe in it (God/deities), and it didn’t exist, it wouldn’t matter? Why wouldn’t you simply be agnostic? Atheism requires one to completely reject “why?”. Religion answers “why?“ as science answers ”how?”.
You can’t advocate atheism because atheism is disbelief. You must argue against everyone esle’s beliefs. You must advocate disbelief in all beliefs. It’s a fallacy right from the start. You can’t disprove God by attempting to point out theological contradictions. Even if you were correct about any single point where you can say, “Hah! There’s a contradiction in your theology.” you wouldn’t be disproving the validity of the belief system. You’d just be pointing out a flaw in a particular theologic
MarsBarsTru7
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 5:23pm“the book of Job was ONLY written by primative, uneducated, bronze age people who had no idea about the natural world.”
A random relativistic perspective on history doesn’t invalidate the belief system either. Do you realize how much of a failure this is? The Pharoahs of Egypt aren‘t disproved as gods because Egyptians didn’t understand calculous or rocket science. A Greek mathematician that declared finding pi was impossible wasn’t wrong because Greeks had to use olive oil to bath and horses to travel long distance.
You can‘t win this argument because you’re wrong. You’re trying to say 2+2=5 in response to 3+(x)=7. You’re not even advocating the side you make the pretense of representing. You’re simply expressing disdain for what you perceive to be flaws in Christian theology. And the question isn’t whether you agree with the theology or not. You say you‘re an atheist so it’s understood. The question is about morality, and you don’t even get that you, as an atheist, are amoral. You have actually repeatedly attempted to use Christian morality as the standard to judge Christians. Can you even be honest enough with yourself for one minute to ask yourself why this is the case? It‘s because you’re an atheist and you don’t have any morality of your own to advocate.
Report Post »MarsBarsTru7
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 5:54pm@DEAVONREYE
I missed the part where you identified yourself as an agnostic. I assumed you were an atheist because a lot of the material you were using might as well have been copied straight off a few atheist websites I’m familiar with. You were a Christian for 20 years? You know the Bible well? Then where is the ignorance coming from? You’re certainly not using any sort of reasoning one would expect from someone who was familiar with the context of the verses they were quoting.
Take Mark 16:16 for example. You cited it as an example of the Bible condoning torture. The problem is, it doesn’t mention torture. It says unbelievers will face condemnation, and it’s referring to the ultimate Judgement of God. It wasn’t mandating that Christians torture non-Christians. So no, Judeo-Christian beliefs do not endorse torture.
Then, back to God killing, which seems to be the only thing you have left at this point (you gave “numerous examples”). First of all, it is not morally wrong to kill altogether. It is morally wrong to murder. The correct translation of the Commandment is “You shall not murder.” Next, God does not murder. God kills as God sees fit. And not everyone that dies is killed by God. Once you have a concept of God, comparing God killing people – as His judgment dictates – to murder is ludicrous.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 7:51pmI’m going to have to end this debate. It is hard to fill a cup that is already full of its own dogma. Your denomination may not read “…shall be damned and go to hell”, but that is another issue. You think I am wrong. I understand you believing so.
Let me state one last thing. If there weren’t issues in the bible, there wouldn’t be so many who have found issues with it. I didn’t fall away from christianity out of “rebellion”. I was VERY sincere in trying to find god. ~20 years was a time of empty black nothingness. When I realized why I always found it empty, I came to the understanding that it WAS just a man made invention and concept.
Finally, the bible can’t be “the words of god”. Why? Because if it were, . . . there wouldn‘t be the MANY denominations who can’t agree with each other over some pretty significant doctrines. The bible could ONLY have one result. One denomination. And with the “discernment from the holy spirit”, each doctrine would absolutely make sense to each person.
It obviously doesn’t. People don’t read it the same. They “discern” differently. If it were god breathed, it would be perfect in its human understanding.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:59pm“I answered. . . you just refused to see it because you are blinded by indoctrination. Killing is immoral regardless of whether or not a “superbeing” does it. ”
no you didn’t answer…your only answer is you know better than God..uh huh…
so you won‘t kill anyone even if they’re going to kill you….uh huh….do you really understand how idiotic you sound?
“And for what god told Job, most of it was ridiculous non-scientific nonsense that ACTUALLY demonstrates that the book of Job was ONLY written by primative, uneducated, bronze age people who had no idea about the natural world they lived in. It is ridiculous to suggest that “I couldn’t answer them”, since what was written is nonsensical. ”
actually what you post is nonsensical…job is a great book, its obviously way too profound for you…dealing with the whole question of suffering…
lets see you said I’m wrong about biblical slavery…but you can’t tell me why….
and you haven‘t explained why YOUR morality is better than God’s especially given the slaughter that atheism produces whenever it gets power….
you didn’t explain why job was correct, when he bowed before the wisdom of the Lord.
you took the bible out of context…ie lied about it…with that verse about taking wives from conquered people…
but what takes the cake is your idiotic statement: “but many of them love just as deeply as those who are straight.”
your inability to answer my point about pedoph
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:03pmMarsBarsTru7
very good points, especially about without God there is no morality…no right no wrong….Deav cannot explain why his version of morality is better than God’s, and where he gets off thinking he can judge God…the hubris and arrogance is just laughable…..nor can he explain why what he believes is moral….what is the basis of it, other than he thinks its right.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:05pm“Finally, the bible can’t be “the words of god”. Why? Because if it were, . . . there wouldn‘t be the MANY denominations who can’t agree with each other over some pretty significant doctrines. The bible could ONLY have one result. One denomination. And with the “discernment from the holy spirit”, each doctrine would absolutely make sense to each person”
this makes no sense…God doesn’t require we all think alike like robots obviously…He grants leeway to people….all christians agree on the primary issues…like the trinity…the atonement, the return, we just quibble over secondary issues…..and the Lord obviously like people to be divided…thus the nations….the whole tower of babel thing…
you really didn’t understand anything you read about the bible….professing to be wise, they have become fools…
Report Post »CLG 4
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:23amSeams that the atheists have such life changing events every time they hear, see or read the word God, they need to eat thier peas. Remember vote democrat(socialist) early and often. Surely we can have a country free of God, oh yes and that piece of paper that is called the constitution.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:19amThomas Jefferson, the principal author of the Declaration
Believe me, dear Sir: there is not in the British empire a man who more cordially loves a union with Great Britain than I do. But, by the God that made me, I will cease to exist before I yield to a connection on such terms as the British Parliament propose; and in this, I think I speak the sentiments of America.
—Thomas Jefferson, November 29, 1775[7]
Report Post »silentme63
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:18amThis nation was born with men bibles in hand, deep in prayer, blessing this nation… all schools had bibles children learned only positive things making this the greatest nation in history. Now remove anything God from public places look what happens down ward spiral of a nation dripping with porn, homosexuals, and abortion.. Judgement has come we can only fast, and pray God forgives our sins.
Report Post »lgccac
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:17amIf atheists are so sure the BIble is just a fairy tale, why are they so afraid of it?
Report Post »Sirfoldallot
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:27amThey r Evil silly.
Report Post »B-Neil
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 10:01amIts a crying shame our politicians even listen to Biblefobes. CARRY ON McDUFF
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 11:11amBecause we know there are people who DO believe it, and take it very seriously.
It would be similar to me asking, “If you don’t believe in Allah, why are you afraid of Radical Islam?” Because there are people who do believe in Allah and decide to blow themselves up over it.
Report Post »Red herring
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 1:00pm… and we all know of the many many Bible believers that would blow you up as soon as look at you right? …Oh wait … nevermind.
Report Post »acovenantinblood
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:16amOur nations deep Christian heritage started over there. It may as well restart over there. Why don’t churches have a fund that they can use to buy one way plane tickets for Atheists to whatever Atheist country they wish to live in?
Report Post »Odin64
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:05amWoohoo that’s my state, But I was already a month ahead of it ha!
Report Post »Jackers
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:16amWhy is it that a minority group of atheists can control the traditions of the majority group of Christians in this country?
Report Post »SpankDaMonkey
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:01am.
I Smell a Mission Trip. The Lord is calling!!!!!
Load up the Church Bus, Pennsylvania is Full of Atheists & Democrats that need Saving!!!!!!
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 12:55pmYou make me laugh!!! Thank you and GOD BLESS.
Report Post »garyM
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:00amI had much rather have favor with God than ever atheist in the world!
Report Post »On The Mark
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:00amThe 1st amendment references only the federal government and offers no prohibition whatsoever against religions established by the several States.
Report Post »cloudsofwar
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:59amthank GOD for the PA state legislators for recognizing GOD and his holy scriptures. don’t worry they wont force you to nor do they want to. non believers carry on and protest. the more we turn to GOD the stronger we will be. oh btw for you non believers you have the anti christian Obama on your side.
Report Post »islamhater
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:25amI don’t believe in god so why does that make me a bad person? I don’t care if you prey in a government building no skin off my a$$. Not all people who don’t believe are bad. There is no seperation of church and state. Christians against atheist blacks against whites so on and so on. You are the problem. When you and everyone else see all of us as fellow Americans then we can restore our country. Please wake up America…
Report Post »Sirfoldallot
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 10:12amThen stop pushing ur belief on others, or r u peaching there is no god , idiot.
Report Post »Clive
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 2:46pm“Then stop pushing ur belief on others, or r u peaching there is no god , idiot.”
i like this, a man with now grasp on language, is calling you an idiot.
THANK U 4 LISTINNING!
Report Post »Wolf
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 6:51pm@ Clive- living in a glass house and throwing stones, are we?
Report Post »The Silversmith
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:54amHate it when the Atheist religion is forced on me. I’m offended. Think I’ll sue someone.
Report Post »Sirfoldallot
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:09amThey need 2 be sued but there is no one out there 2 help u in this cause, u can foget about the ACLU.
Report Post »islamhater
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:32amSure go ahead fight fire with fire. Me i would use the constitution as a water bucket and just put out the fire..
Report Post »Jumper
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:54amKeep pushing us, Atheists. We will only turn the other cheek for so long. And we outnumber you by a loooooong margin. Also, go re-read(if you ever read it in the first place) the Constitution, NOWHERE in it is the phrase “separation of church and State”, it says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. Face the fact that you live in a free Country, founded on Christian values and principles, the good news is, it’s a free Country, so you’re all free to leave. Good luck finding another Country that will put up with your views. Hey, why not try Saudi Arabia?
Report Post »expatinontariocanada
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 10:31amAbsolutely right! Freedom OF religion, NOT freedom FROM religion. Atheists are either dumb or evil. All you atheists out there, pick one, are you dumb or evil?
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:51amI agree it’s the Year of the Bible! We’re using the 90 day reading/listening plan using Max McLean’s reading available on YouVersion.com. Started with the New Testament and we’re halfway through the OT. To God be all glory! His love endures forever!
Report Post »StonyBurk
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:49amI recall the US Congress back when Reagan was President passed Federal Law declaring 1983 YEAR OF THE BIBLE. .Reagans comments ought prove applicable in this PA case.IMO the groups pushing this are not “afraid of God” so much as they HATE and seek to destroy our US Constitution.And they loath our way of life so much they want to force all America be as godless and without Hope as they
Report Post »Locked
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:45amOdd. Guess they missed that it’s already the Year of the Dragon. Maybe we should look to the Infancy Gospel of Matthew, which claimed Jesus tamed dragons as a child?
Report Post »garyM
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:57amJesus is God and the “WITH GOD NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE AND WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE!
Report Post »Locked
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:17am@Garym
I’m… not sure how your response has anything to do with my comment. Unless you’re saying Jesus tamed dragons as a child?
Report Post »mecanic
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:30amyou sound like a two face idiot.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 10:16am@Mec
How so? It is the Year of the Dragon. The Infancy Gospels exist (although are likely closer to fan fiction than fact). One of them has a story of Jesus taming dragons (chapter 18 of IGoM). So I’m not seeing anything two-faced here.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:41am*****”forcing taxpayers of all faiths and of no religion to support a particular religious view.”********
______________________________________________________________________________________
Kind of how I an forced to pay for planned parenthood? Kind of how I am forced to pay for Darwinism in the school? Kind of how I am forced to pay for Marxist/Un-American unions? Kind of how I am to pay for anti-CHRISTIAN propaganda in the schools, local papers and government?
I am sick and tired of those destroying my freedom. This is our culture, this is what made our culture so great…it is a foundation built on God. If we leave that foundation we are doomed! You don’t like this culture…then leave! Hey, that’s what I am told when I disagree with school agendas. If you don’t like God, then OPT OUT…that’s what you always tell me you hypocrites!
Report Post »Sirfoldallot
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:51amWelcome 2 the koo koo’s thats runing this country.
Report Post »UBETHECHANGE
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:20amWord!
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:37amWhoever told you to “leave if you don’t agree” didn’t understand the phylosophy of this country. You telling non-christians to leave destorts the reason the founders came here to start a new nation. I am all for the religious having their place in this country. Call it the “year of the bible”, for whatever that means. It will make no impact on my life.
Report Post »Gdubya316
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:39amThe constitution prohibits the government from establishing a state religion. You can do anything you want up to the point where the Government establishes a state religion. Year of the bible, invocations, saying Jesus or anything else doesn’t establish squat. The government establishes by Amendment to the constitution or federal statute the same process for the states and local governments have to establish an ordinance to make it law.
Report Post »The 1st amendment prohibits the government from forcing us to be a part of a particular religion, not recognizing things about or referring to religion.
garyM
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:59amI hope we never endorse any religion but we stay true to the one and only God of the Holy Bible, that’s not a religion, that’s reality! I think this is what these guys did, if it wasn’t, it should have been!
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:00amExactly!
Report Post »G.E.R
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:39amThis it’s the #1 Bestselling Fictional Book. Next year it’ll be Sci-Fi movies
Report Post »Gdubya316
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:40amEven if you’re right, it doesn’t violate the constitution for a state to say this is the year of the bible
Report Post »G.E.R
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:40amThe Founders knew that to put God in the Constitution was to put man out. Any mention of a deity could be seized upon by either fanactics or zealots and use it as a pretext for destorying the liberty of thought.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:58am“The Founders knew that to put God in the Constitution was to put man out. Any mention of a deity could be seized upon by either fanactics or zealots and use it as a pretext for destorying the liberty of thought.”
you atheist fanatics sure want to destroy the liberty for those you disagree with.
Report Post »Sirfoldallot
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 11:09amG.E.R. = Idiot
Report Post »ares338
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:33amThe only thing that bothers me about atheists is that they are perpetually angry! I am not a Christian but come atheists; smile every now and then.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:47am“The only thing that bothers me about atheists is that they are perpetually angry!”
… he shouts angrily.
Report Post »Tankertony
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:04amAnger, one of the byproducts of refusing God. Deep in their tortured souls they know God exists.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:05amThat was emphasis, not anger, LOCKED. Thanks, ARES, I appreciate your post.
Report Post »NHwinter
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:26amIf there is a war on Christians I wonder how it will turn out since we outnumber them.
Report Post »rangerp
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:34am“Beyond questions about whether any other holy book would be honored by state lawmakers in a similar way”
if so, they would be fools, as there is not other Holy Book.
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:23amIt may very well be the absolute last time. Stand up for it now or forget it forever.
“As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
Report Post »misteryuck
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:21amTHis is simple… The US Constitution states that CONGRESS shall make NO law respecting AN establishment of religion…
Report Post »1st off, what law did the US congress make in this story?
2nd, what ESTABLISHMENT of religion is being respected here by the law congress didn’t make?
TEXASGRANNY73
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:40amThe powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited to it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Report Post »TEXASGRANNY73
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:59am10th Amendment..
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:20amEven though I believe in freedom of religion; we need to keep all religion and I mean all religion separate from government.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:58amWhy? The founders of this great country didn’t. Nor did Thomas Jefferson.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:00amWhat do you mean? They kept religion out of politics. I mean they respected the faiths of all kinds of Americans but didn’t establish a state religion or custom. You know what I’m saying?
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:16amNo one is establishing a religion by saying it is the Year of the Bible. The issue the founders had was over the varying denominations of Christianity. Without doubt, they agreed in Sovereign God which is why 56 men signed their name to the Declaration stating we are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:18amFurther, they started every convention with prayer.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:26amI wouldn’t doubt many should respect with prayer. Many were deist or of different faiths. But I feel having a “Sovereign God” is confusing. Why not just respect the faiths of others and keep government more secular? I believe in a God but wouldn’t oppose my views on someone.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:30amThey also met in churches where they discussed going to war with Britain as well the country’s founding with the speeches usually given by the ministers.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:37amRemoving God and Christianity from our government is EXACTLY why our country is failing. How can you possibly not make that connection? I am reading the Old Testament and can assure you our problems today stem from God removing His blessing from this country just as He did in Israel’s history. Gee thanks to all of you who think we shouldn’t be repenting as a nation and begging for His blessing.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:44amWhat harm do you think would come from genuinely trying to restore God’s rightful place in our country and giving Him the glory He is due? We’ve tried every possible thing we can EXCEPT that. And it has failed. Do you prefer to be a citizen of the world where Obama and the progressives are taking us? Or would you rather restore this great country?
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:47am“shakes head” Even though I can agree Christianity does have a rich history in this country. That doesn’t make it a Christian country. You’ll be surprised how much Christianity is promoted in the media and all the programs on the radio, television, internet, etc. With or without the Christian government or majority you have successful countries. There was a good article on how five of our Founding Fathers were skeptical of Christianity their lifetime: George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Pain, and James Madison. I would like to share a quote by Thomas Jefferson.
“Believing that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their Legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.”
http://www.alternet.org/belief/153727/5_founding_fathers_whose_skepticism_about_christianity_would_make_them_unelectable_today/?page=entire
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:50amI do not believe in the Christian god. The god in Christianity has to be one the most evil characters I have ever had the distaste of ever reading. He is homophobic, sexist, a mass murder, etc. Why should I worship a god who drowned the world and would send people to hell for not worshiping him?
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:55amshakes head also. I prefer reading the founders very own words. Not modern man’s interpretation of their words. You will always find a website to justify your argument. Progs are very good at creating material. I recommend you read their letters.
As to questioning one’s faith, surely all Christians go through a period of questioning. That’s why it is called faith. God made us and surely knows we question. But it is our firm reliance on Him even through our questioning that He blesses.
Again, what harm would there be in trying a genuine national revival? We surely have tried all else.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:57amI‘m sorry Dem but your belief isn’t actually that relevant…..nor is mine. We are discussing the founding father’s belief and why it is appropriate to have the “Year of the Bible”.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 10:03amI’m truly sorry you feel God is evil. You obviously have no idea of His true character and are using the old covenant and communal living of the laws in the Old Testament to form your opinion. Nor do you understand His righteousness. It is man that is inherently sinful.
But we are digressing from the point. I have no interest in trying to explain God nor am I truly capable. He can do that on His own if you choose to seek Him.
I’ve stated my position on the founding fathers and must go for now. Have a great day!
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 10:04amWhat we need to is start respecting people. Leave out the bible and leave out atheism. Just respect. That is what I believe in and what we need for the country. We’re too divided.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 10:33amDEM, you let your bias show there. Not once did you answer my questions about seeking national revival. Rather, despite your acknowledgment of the America’s founding fathers firm reliance on our Creator, you don‘t believe in God so because you don’t we should have separation of church and state. Even though you are in complete agreement the founding fathers established this country under Judeo Christian values, you prefer to keep a wall because of your views. Apparently, the future of the country and what is best for it is not as relevant as your personal views. I do question why you are on a conservative site though when you link to liberal-leaning Media Institute. Isn’t that Soros funded?
In respect for you and your views, I thank you for this dialog. I am sure we will connect again on another post concerning faith. :-) Until then, I wish you well!
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 10:41amNo, I answered your questions. You just didn’t like the answers I used. This country wasn’t founded on Christianity or Judea-Christian principles. As a deist I believe in a God. But I feel we need respect. That is my opinion on the subject. I’m neither left nor right; my principles are human nature.
Report Post »CarlicusLinux
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 11:43amSurely you should have thought before posting this. The only way to do what you suggest is to have only athiests creating/passing laws…and that would be imposing their life philosophy on us.
As a Christian, everything I do…every decision I make…is influenced by my faith as it is my lens through which I live. This is also the case for every Christian…we all fall short but we dust ourselves off, ask for forgiveness and try again.
YOU CAN’T CHECK YOUR FAITH AT THE DOOR…no person acts without consulting their base principles.
Your statement makes no sense.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 11:58amDo any of you know what the definition of atheism means? We should have only responsible laws and customs. I respect freedom of faith. But I would never submit to a government who imposes any religion.
Report Post »Bad_Ashe
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 7:11pm@DEMOCRITUSOILDER267 – I appreciate your civil tone (you don’t spew venom like most atheists who comment on these things), but you are wrong in many of your assumptions about the Founding Fathers, and your posts perpetuate poor atheist talking points.
The mixture of Christians to Deists to Agnostics among the Founding Fathers was on the scale of 99-1. More Founding Fathers had theological degrees or performed biblical translation than there were deists or atheists combined.
Typically when atheists pull this dodge for their talking points, they’ve often reduced the founding fathers down to as low as 7 men. There are two groups of founding fathers, Framers and Signers, and in both cases nearly all these men were Christian. In fact, of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and 3 were Roman Catholics.
Additionally, according to a study by the University of Houston, over 15,000 writings and speeches by the Founding Fathers were analyzed and the three most quoted sources were the philosopher Charles Montesquieu, jurist William Blackstone and philosopher John Locke.
However, the Bible was quoted more than any of these men: four times more than Montesquieu, six times more than Locke and twelve times more than Blackstone. In total, 94% of the Founding Father’s quotes were quoted, either directly or indirectly, from the Bible. This is not only evidence of inspiration, but also the importance of religion in their daily lives.
Report Post »UBETHECHANGE
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 8:18amIf he had proclaimed it the year of the Koran the liberal marxists would all be on board.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 9:18amThat is bull crap. Don’t make ridiculous comments.
Report Post »