Crime

Thief Steals Case of Beer. Shop Owner Shoots Him. Thief Goes Free. Shop Owner Gets Arrested.

Gurminder Parmar and his wife have been the victims of robberies before. In fact, Parmar’s wife says their little mom-and-pop convenience store has been getting robbed a lot lately — almost weekly — and some have even used guns. So Parmar got one of his own, and when 21-year-old  Christopher Driggers came in and tried to take off with a case of beer, Parmar opened fire.

He hit Driggers — who the Lodi Sun-Sentinel says is an Army soldier — with one bullet in the shoulder, but that didn’t stop him. Police later found him several blocks away with the beer. But here’s where the story gets really controversial: the thief — who admitted his crime — hasn’t been arrested, but Parmar has.

Shop Owner Arrested for Shooting Beer Thief in California

Gurmindar "Gary" Parmar

“After, after he got the beer he just ran out the store. That’s when this cashier decided to shoot at him,” Lodi Police Officer Jim Pendergast told the local CBS station.

According to police, there’s nothing to suggest Driggers was armed, but Parmar’s wife, Satnam, told the station her husband thought the exact opposite.

“He told me he thinks that guy had some weapon with him, that’s why he shot him,” she said.

“According to the police,” the Sun-Sentinel reports, “in California a person is allowed to use deadly force only when their life or the life or someone around them is immediately threatened.”

“I am very upset,” Satnam told the Sun-Sentinel. “I have no idea how he is doing. We have no other employees, it is just us.”

According to the report, Parmar faces charges of assault with a deadly weapon and is still behind bars. He faces four years in prison. Police told the station it’s up to the district attorney to file theft charges Against Driggers, who was treated and released at a local hospital.


Comments (277)

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  • cemerius
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:30pm

    Hope the military prosecutes this dumb ask for for theft and detruction of Government property under at least Article 15 and the shop owner if ANYTHING he should be charged with negligent discharge and given probabtion…….Criminals be warned you are on notice!!

    Report Post » cemerius  
    • SLEUTH
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:52pm

      well, well, well..isnt this what your want Liberals? keep turning this country and laws upside down. sooner or later it will come to you and yours. by then it will be too late. and when it bites you i hope im around to read about how you begged for your life. i hope you cant sleep at night and have the worse nightmare ever.

      Report Post » SLEUTH  
    • Texas Chris
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:56pm

      The should throw Driggers out of the military and into Leavenworth.

      (Gotta be careful typing that name, dooonchanooo)

      Report Post »  
    • LowIncome
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:16pm

      The astonishing part is the poll results. The comments for the most part coincide with the last answer being that both persons should have been arrested. Albeit that CA law apparently has a $ limit on what would be considered a crime (to investigate). The shop owner let his frustration get the best of him as he was tired of getting robbed repeatedly. The time that he decided to “defend” his store was not appropriate. Thinking that someone is armed does not justify shooting the perp and definitely does not immediately put the persons life in danger.

      Report Post »  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:29pm

      LowIncome
      ” The shop owner let his frustration get the best of him as he was tired of getting robbed repeatedly. The time that he decided to “defend” his store was not appropriate. Thinking that someone is armed does not justify shooting the perp and definitely does not immediately put the persons life in danger.”

      Excellent post

      Report Post »  
    • Independent4233
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:47pm

      cemerius
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:30pm
      “Hope the military prosecutes this dumb ask for for theft and detruction of Government property under at least Article 15 and the shop owner if ANYTHING he should be charged with negligent discharge and given probabtion…….Criminals be warned you are on notice!!”

      I’m pretty sure the military will discipline this guy, and I agree it will be at least an Article15, maybe more. They’ve got quite a bit of discretion in what they can do.

      I‘m not comfortable with this guy shooting the robber if we’ve read all the facts in the incident, because it doesn’t seem to rise to a level greater than theft. But at thesametime, I agree the guy should get probation.

      I’m not sure that anything the military does to this perp is going to change him any. He’ll probably get kicked out eventually and will do more of the same.

      Report Post »  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:54pm

      Retail theft accounts for 2% of the cost of a product. At least that is what they tell us. I bet that 2% figure is not even across all cities & neighborhoods. Suppose you were losing 5% or 10%. Suppose you have had a gun stuck in your face several times.

      A soldier goes to war he or she at least get combat pay when they are in zone. A store owner is merely told you will pay your taxes regardless if you were adequately protected or not.

      Treatment for PTSD unrecognized
      Combat Pay You kidding me
      Ticker tape parade Get out of here.

      You guys don’t know all the facts.
      -How many times was he held up?
      -How many times has he had a gun stuck in his face?
      -Does he have PTSD?

      Report Post »  
    • P C BE DAMNED
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 4:13pm

      When you are in the right and they place the cuffs on you and you have to call your family and hire a lawyer and of course lawyers say you deserve your day in court and its just another pay day for them but it works a hardship on you and you don’t want your day in court. You want to protect your life and property because your property cost you a part of your life, and then be left the hel l alone.
      It calls for street justice. We will have justice if we have to hair lip everyone from here to Iran. Justice is coming and street justice will do fine in a pinch.

      Report Post » P C BE DAMNED  
    • LowIncome
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 4:44pm

      The thief being a member of the military should have nothing to do with the story. Does he suffer from PTSD? Maybe. Shooting someone after a crime was done and having no proof of imminent life threatening events this seems thus far to have panned out exactly how it should have. People generally are not arrested for petty theft like a case of beer. A simple fine, like a speeding ticket should be imposed, not an arrest.
      For those crying foul, or “the police acted stupidly” as our dear President has said, understand the laws before making a complete judgement that things should have gone down differently. So far evidence provided, things look fine to me on who was arrested and who wasn’t.

      Report Post »  
    • Cemoto78
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 4:44pm

      @LowIncome,
      Your right on the money. If I read the story right the guy shoplifting, I hate it when they call it robbery, was walking OUT of the store and was not threatening the owner or others. However, not being there and getting the complete feel and facts of the situation, I cannot give a factual decision as to the use of deadly force. Maybe as the shoplifter was walking out he muttered something about having a weapon and had his hand in his waist or pocket area. The courts need to figure this one out and in the meantime the owner should be released on bond to appear later.

      Report Post » Cemoto78  
    • ThemDemsLie2much
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 5:57pm

      So what lowincome says is a man that is already crazy enough to rob you of your property, then you should wait to see if that crazy man is also messed up enough to do you physical harm! You‘ve had a dog for 10 years that still craps on your floor don’t you? So this guy just needs to tell all his other criminal buddies to go ahead and steal from this store, just don‘t show any weapons and you’ll get away with it! Sue the city for criminal neglect since you are not allowed to defend yourself against crime. Enough is enough! Happens at least once a week! 4-5 times a month! At least 52 times a year! I say that he is very lucky the dude didn’t empty the gun on him. How can this guy be active in the Army? Scary……
      Remember, the cops are there to find out who did the crime, not prevent it from happening. looks like they went for the bigger offense. Maybe they work on commission?

      Report Post » ThemDemsLie2much  
    • FreedomPurveyor
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 5:59pm

      If it happened like the story makes it sound, the shopkeeper wasn’t defending himself, but rather trying to stop the shoplifter from escaping. That is not a justifiable use of deadly force, even if he thinks the guy might be armed.

      The original story says: “…police say he shot a man fleeing his store with a case of stolen beer.”

      “Parmar told police he was scared that he would be robbed when Driggers began walking out without paying for the beer, which cost roughly $15 total, Pendergast said.”

      Doesn’t look too good for old Parmar…

      Report Post » FreedomPurveyor  
    • ObozoNoMore
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 6:20pm

      If anything, the guy should be given target shooting lessons.

      Report Post » ObozoNoMore  
    • turkey13
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 6:41pm

      No problem, California was on my no fly list because 3 yrs. ago they stopped us from doing small dredging for gold. I don’t believe they would honor Oklahomas new open carry permit anyway. This did tick off 1 of my sons that was going out there next month with his family. He’s in the process of cancelling everything and driving to Flordia now. He just wanted to take his kids to Disney out there because I took my family to Flordia in 1988. I‘m glad they are going to Flordia because I’v been there twice.

      Report Post »  
    • Bill Rowland
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 6:59pm

      Parmer needs to move to Texas – he would be allowed to defend his property and the thief would be in jail and Parmer would be a witness.

      OMG 2012

      Report Post »  
    • koyettsu
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 7:10pm

      I say if you steal you should understand you can and will be shot, stealing will go down to record lows.

      Report Post »  
    • hidden_lion
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 7:33pm

      The guy was fleeing with the beer. Even if he was armed, he did not brandish or threaten with the weapon. But, the thief should still be arrested for the theft as well.

      Report Post » hidden_lion  
    • 000degrees
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 8:27pm

      @ low
      @walk
      I learned a long time ago not to make my mind up after reading a reporters account of what happened. I guess you two have crystal balls….Funny how you ignore the quote from the store owner saying he thought the perp was armed but go ahead and customize your decision making process to fit in with the PC influence in your lives…..

      Report Post »  
    • dmar003
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 8:53pm

      he had every right to protect himself and patrons that shop there. He is getting “robbed everyweek” he has every right to have a gun and shot the robber. what i don’t get is how somebody is defending his store.
      The robber was under a tree drinking his stolen bear, and there not charging him for shoplifting.
      and Gurminder who gets put him in jail…..were is the justice for that

      Report Post » dmar003  
    • rangerp
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 10:02pm

      This one is pretty dummy proof. I am a big second amendment supporter, but you can not shoot folks running away.

      If you are going to shoot someone, you better be able to stand in court, and show that your life was in danger, thus the need to shoot. I thought everyone knew this.

      It aint like he was laying on his back, getting his head beat into the curb, by a 17 year old 185lbs Skittles eating thug who no matter what his age, always looks like he is 12 in pictures.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • SgtB
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 10:28pm

      To all of you people who believe that protecting property through the act of physical violence is criminal… All I have to say is that you need get your heads examined. The reality of the situation is that we live in a society that routinely converts a person’s life and energy into physical and monetary property. Any time that you hold a dollar bill in your hand, you are literally holding a representation of your life’s work and the value it has to another person. Theft of any kind should be dealt with in as swift and permanent a manner as possible. The store owner or employee was not wrong in shooting the ratbag that was stealing from the store. In fact, the entire premise of government is to aid the individual in protecting their personal property from theft; so how can our governing bodies justify the criminalization of property protection unless it is seeking a monopoly of personal defense and promoting tyranny?

      Report Post » SgtB  
    • SgtB
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 10:33pm

      @ Independent and anyone else who believes that Driggers should just be reprimanded… Driggers should be put immediately dishonorably discharged and he should then be tried for his crime in a civilian court system and spend some time behind bars. I‘m not suggesting years for this dirtbag because I think that years behind bars isn’t good for anyone. Really, if you are going to put someone away for a decade, I don’t want them back in society ever again if you get my drift.

      But anyway, with what recently happened to Sgt. Stein in the Marine Corps over his lawful, legal, and moral statement that he would not obey unconstitutional or unlawful orders given by the president or anyone else, I don’t see a way anyone can justify this “Soldier” remaining in the service.

      Report Post » SgtB  
    • Pogue
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 10:54pm

      Even a field grade article 15 is next to nothing, 45 and 45 and loss of at least 1 pay grade, those that know: get Real!!!.. That’s just a slap on the wrist.

      Let him answer for it in the civilian court system.

      If the shop owner felt a “real threat of armed response”, he acted responsibly.
      As per ROE, escalation of force rules prevail, Be ready to face UCMJ and burden of proof Regs.
      Be ready to defend and justify your actions.

      Report Post »  
    • JL320
      Posted on June 1, 2012 at 12:32am

      Enough thugs get shot over stealing a penny, they will soon learn it’s not worth it. Enough businesses owners get locked away for defending their property, thugs will soon learn it’s easy money. Simple as that. Liberalism is a retardedism. You don’t need a government to mandate common sense, until you are completely sucking on govos tit.

      Report Post »  
    • toto
      Posted on June 1, 2012 at 12:46am

      The store owner should be given a medal. Stop tolerating criminal behavior and you will have much less of it. Don’t want to get shot, don’t steal stuff. PERIOD.

      Report Post »  
    • TexasKnight
      Posted on June 1, 2012 at 3:40am

      The store owner should be given a medal and shooting lessons.
      The theif should be given jail time. Discharged and have to pay for medical services to treat the wound.

      Report Post » TexasKnight  
    • lordjosh
      Posted on June 1, 2012 at 6:37am

      @lowincome
      One has a right to defend their property. Whether it’s a car or case of beer or a button. Driggers got himself shot by commiting a crime. The perp being ba perp justifies shooting him in the process of the crime, espescialy if he is trying to get away,.

      Report Post » lordjosh  
    • lordjosh
      Posted on June 1, 2012 at 6:41am

      @lowincome

      “People generally are not arrested for petty theft like a case of beer”
      No, but store clerks have been shot during petty theft crimes.
      Stop protecting those that choose to assault their communities and give thanks to those who have the stones to defend it.

      Report Post » lordjosh  
  • grfd703
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:25pm

    A cop, in the store, witnessing this crime would NOT have had a justification to shoot, based on the information given in this article. The whole point of having and using a gun is for defense of self. If defense of property using a gun is illegal in his state, then he is guilty of assault with a deadly weapon, minimum, and attempted murder maximum. Sucks, but, you can’t shoot someone in this case unless they directly threaten your life. Take measures to secure the inventory, lock up the booze, whatever, but you can’t just shoot at people, regardless of the fact that they keep shoplifting. Flash mobs do this too. Does this mean we just start firing into a group of people for shoplifting? There is a HUGE difference between being “robbed” by someone blatantly walking out with your merchandise under your nose, and being actually robbed at gun or knife-point. Just my .02 cents worth.

    Report Post »  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:33pm

      Exactly correct. It’s shocking how little people actually know of the laws they live under. As you said, even a cop couldn’t have cleared leather in this situation without losing his job.

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • crazyrightwingmom
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:40pm

      Stealing possessions is an assault on one’s person as much as being attacked physically. This business is part of their blood and sweat…it is their life. You have just as much ripped off their arm!!
      Anyone who does that should be shot!

      Report Post »  
    • Detroit paperboy
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:41pm

      To bad he missed……..the back of his head that is, there is no lower form of life than a thief.kill them like rats.

      Report Post »  
    • hcartexas
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:48pm

      Regardless of state law.. the laws of man should apply, and do apply in my life. If you attempt, or actually do steal from me, I will shoot you. We will let a jury figure it out. You sir, can protect your small balls, and cower, and in the moment of decision, it ultimately will not be yours, and youlll be at the mercy of whatever bad man is there to do you harm.

      Report Post » hcartexas  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:48pm

      Mom,

      Sorry, but the law does not agree with you in most states. I’m not arguing my opinion, I’m stating the facts of the law. You don’t have to like the facts of the law (and, for the record, I’m not fond of them myself), but facts are facts.

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • DoseofReality
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:52pm

      Crazyrightwingmom – your name is correct, you are crazy. let me ask you this…if you owned a tore and a 15 year old kid came in and shoplifted a candy bar, you would feel fine with yourself for shooting and killing him? I think you are much closer to the middle eastern countries than you are to western laws. maybe you should move to suadi arabia….never mind they arent as crazy as you, they just lop off hands. I guess your wet dream is taliban ruled afghanistan? i hear its lovely this time of year.

      Report Post »  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:53pm

      Wow! Reading some of these replied, the right wings here are very obviously devolving. Punishment for stealing a case of beer should be death? How about stealing a can of beer? A candy bar? How about 1 kernel of popcorn?

      Sad.

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • DoseofReality
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:56pm

      HCARTEXAS – Ill ask you the same question – if a 15 year old kid(actually lets make him and 18 year old adult) steals a candy bar from you, you would shoot him in the head as he ran away? You wouldnt feel that was maybe just a little bit of an overreaction?

      Report Post »  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:57pm

      @ hcartexas

      How about someone who steals and gets away with it for a period of time? Do you go out and hunt them? How about someone breaking electronically into your bank account? Do you go out and hunt them as well? How about a crooked employer who would short you a bit on a paycheck? Do you kill him/her, too? What about someone who writes you a check and it bounces? Death for them?

      People are becoming crazy! I used to think it was the left that were getting more and more radical, but this forum is proof that it’s on both sides!

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • Truthbeliever2
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:58pm

      Is it not a fact that the shop owner thought the theif was armed?

      Report Post » Truthbeliever2  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:01pm

      @Truth

      It doesn’t even matter if he thought he was or not. Read the story.

      ““After, after he got the beer he just ran out the store. That’s when this cashier decided to shoot at him,” Lodi Police Officer Jim Pendergast told the local CBS station.”

      He was shot at AFTER HE RAN OUT OF THE STORE. There is, by that statement, NO legal claim of self defense that can be offered. It was a statement to the police. The owner is in deep doo doo. I should have picked up on that sooner.

      Don’t take this as sympathy for the thief, he should be brought to trial himself. But there is no longer a claim of self defense that can stand up in court. He made a very, very bad mistake in shooting at the guy after he fled the premises.

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • BSdetector
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:02pm

      Then the laws need to be changed.

      Report Post » BSdetector  
    • Ars21689
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:05pm

      That’s why I voted “No, but I can see why he was”. He shouldn’t have been arrested and anyone with common sense can see he was defending his property. Problem is this is California, where common sense is sadly lacking. If you’re a gun owner, you need to know your states laws.

      Report Post »  
    • Steel
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:09pm

      Yuuup! Once a few flash mobs (emphasis on MOBS) lose a member or two, the rest of them will stop robbing, beating and killing people. If I were confronted by a person (or persons) with guns, sticks, knives, bottles, or any other weapon, it’s “unload the magazine” into the mob and whoever survives gets to live and be prosecuted. I will live and be a witness against them at their trials. The rest will face their Maker. They won’t be able to lie or get help from the cops when St. Peter tells them they are waiting in the wrong line.

      Report Post »  
    • LetUsReason
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:10pm

      Bingo. Here we get into the debate of what‘s legal vs what’s reasonable. Should the store owner have shot the thief? According to state law, the answer is no. According to a frustrated store owner’s own rationale and common sense, the answer is yes. In my state, I have the right to shoot and kill anyone that seeks to take my life or property. That said, you better be darn sure of what you’re doing when you play judge and jury with a bullet.

      Report Post »  
    • RJJinGadsden
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:12pm

      GHOST, I have to agree with you and GRFD703. There was no reason in this case to fire at this perpetrator. I can see where the store owner and his wife had to be so frustrated with the previous robberies and especially those where they must have had a gun in their faces. Also, the frustrations of many posting here who put up with one news story after another regarding such crimes and many ending with the death or injury of the store clerk. But again, this should have not lead to this particular shooting.

      Report Post » RJJinGadsden  
    • P8riot
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:27pm

      @LETUSREASON

      Great point about how this conversation is being played out on two different levels. Both sides are right – emotionally, most people would WANT to shoot someone who is stealing from them – HOWEVER, it is completely illegal to do so unless that person’s (or another person’s) life is threatened.

      You stated that in your state it is legal to shoot someone if they are stealing your property – what state is that? Honestly, the well established common law (as well as statutory law) is that one may NEVER use deadly force to protect property.

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:28pm

      GhostOfJefferson
      crazyrightwingmom

      Legally you are right Jefferson, but if enough ‘mere’ property is stolen, a person will be reduced to the soup kitchen/food stamps & homeless shelter/section 8 housing. Only so much property can be
      stolen before someone goes in the red financially.

      To charge the shop owner & not the thief is selective justice, both committed crimes. If the shop owners have the preponderance of risk, violence or legal, in any confrontation the thieves are going to get more brazen.

      All I can see is that the police did not charge him so they could a save public resources. They figure the military is going to charge him or get rid of him. Of course that could back fire. Often times the ex-service member doesn’t go home but stays in the community, which helps the local crimes stats greatly.

      Report Post »  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:31pm

      hcartexas

      “Regardless of state law.. the laws of man should apply, and do apply in my life. If you attempt, or actually do steal from me, I will shoot you”

      Ummm no, not a good ideal. Looking them up later might be a good ideal.

      Report Post »  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:37pm

      DoseofReality
      I guess you blithely put people between a rock & a hard place. You’re okay with the police not pursuing a criminal or the shop owner protecting his property.

      Report Post »  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:38pm

      jhrusky
      Have you owned a retail outlet?

      Report Post »  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:46pm

      @ walkabout

      Yes, I have and I do. I have also been stolen from. I have also stopped theft from happening. However, I would NEVER think of taking a life due to theft from me. That is not to say I would allow it, and I would take whatever action I needed to in order to stop it, but I would not shoot someone for simple petty theft.

      I believe thieves should be arrested and prosecuted, and if repeat violations occur, then they should be put away, but again, I don’t believe we need to be their executioners, and I don’t believe my God would want us to be either.

      The very comments on this article is so much ammo for the anti-gun types, the anti-tea party types, the anti-right types. People here are proving how radical and crazy some of the right can be and that is sad … we give the progressives ammo to use against us. And then we wonder why the progressives have achieved so much and risen so far.

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • Nepenthe
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:48pm

      “Should the store owner have shot the thief? According to state law, the answer is no. According to a frustrated store owner’s own rationale and common sense, the answer is yes.”

      According to the gospels of Jesus, the answer is no. That is what I will base my answer from.

      Report Post » Nepenthe  
    • DoseofReality
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:57pm

      JRHUSKY – nothing has turned me off of the right more than being on this and other right wing sites. Im a capitalist, i love the free market and I love freedom…i believe in small government and allowing people to live the way they want. Unofrtunatly, Ive become to realize that the extreme right wing is taking over. From any story that has a black person in it, to any story with gays, to any religious article, the extreme right dominates and the sane people on the right (like yourself) are overshadowed. If people were more sane, approached things reasonably, i dont see how any democrat would ever win office again. But with so many nutty opinion and views that dominate sites like this, I have nowhere to turn.

      Report Post »  
    • Nepenthe
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 4:00pm

      Dose,

      That is why I had to move over to the libertarian side of the force. I couldn’t align myself with the Republican movement.

      Report Post » Nepenthe  
    • bumfuzeled
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 4:28pm

      Keep your two cents worth. In Texas we can protect life and property. That’s why I live here and the liberals can all move to Lodi.

      Report Post » bumfuzeled  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 4:32pm

      @ doseofreality

      I agree with your assessment … reading this blog and some of the other right wing blogs have shown me how degenerate the right has become … they’re just as bad as the progressive left, just on the opposite side. I, too, am leaning libertarian because I don’t want to be associated with these types who really want the same thing as the animals in the middle eastern countries do but cannot see the parallel due to their eyes being so fogged in hate.

      If you think about it, these sort of blogs are perfect ammunition for the progressive left to show how crazy the right wing has become and they have apparently convinced a large amount of people of that. The truly unfortunate fact is those rabid right crazies here will, instead of being adult and mature enough to take a step back and view how their posts look to a middle-of-the-road thinking person, attack me for pointing out their obvious hatred.

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 4:39pm

      jhrusky
      I appreciate you answer. I am trying to teach my kid not to be rash like this store owner was. Although on a jury I would be extremely tempted to attempt jury nullification.

      I checked out 2 of the 3 linked stories. Apparently the store owners don’t have $5,000 top pay a bail bondsman to come up with bail money. Either they don’t have the money, don’t want to spend it, need it for the lawyer, or the wife doesn’t want to pay.

      I also thought of all the money the state collects on sin tax on cigarettes & alcohol & yet they have no risk & do not have to work that hard for it.

      A gun is cheaper but a good camera system could make a person’s life heII. Show a surveillence tape enough & a thief will lose his freedom to walk around.

      Report Post »  
    • AxelPhantom
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 4:51pm

      P8riot,
      This may surprise you…..

      Texas Penal Code section 9.42- Deadly force to protect property

      § 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
      justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
      tangible, movable property:
      (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
      other under Section 9.41 (Protection Of One’s Own Property http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/9.41.00.html); and
      (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
      deadly force is immediately necessary:
      (A) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of
      arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
      nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
      (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
      immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
      robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
      property; and
      (3) he reasonably believes that:
      (A) the land or property cannot be protected or
      recovered by any other means; or
      (B) the use of force other than deadly force to
      protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
      another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

      Report Post »  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 4:51pm

      jhrusky

      “Yes, I have and I do. I have also been stolen from. I have also stopped theft from happening.”

      You look like a big guy. You being red headed I bet you are. If you were 5′6″ or smaller & not as stocky, stopping someone without a gun would be more problematic I think. I can see the thief winning money in civil court. Using a gun was not the correct answer in this case. But this store owner has been held up at gun point at least once. How many people have had that happen to them?
      In this case I really think good cameras are a better answer & getting the surveillance tape ran on the nightly news.

      Report Post »  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 5:24pm

      @ walkabout

      Actually, my hair is brown, but that’s OK :)
      I am a bit over 6 foot. However, size is not everything. My wife whom is only 5′6″ can take out most people, not due to her size, but due to different fighting arts she knows. One don’t have to be “big” to protect ones own.

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • ObozoNoMore
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 6:22pm

      In this case, if it ever gets to a jury, the jury needs to nullify the charges.

      Report Post » ObozoNoMore  
    • P8riot
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 9:31pm

      @AXELPHANTOM –

      Wow! That does surprise me. I went to law school in Florida and practice in Arizona, and never heard of a statute that allows deadly force to protect property – but hey – leave it to Texas! :) Thanks for the info!

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • SgtB
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 10:48pm

      @JHRUSKY and dose of reality, Let me get this straight. So basically, you all are trying to say that there is a dollar limit to theft at which point it becomes okay or not okay to shoot a thief? Is that really the point you want to be making? So what if someone is stealing my car? Is it okay to shoot them for that? The reality of the situation is that theft is theft is theft. Dollar amount doesn’t matter. If you steal pack of gum or a case of beer or you rob a house of every piece of property with anything but sentimental value; you are a thief any way that you go. Now, that said, there is a difference between a real child (hasn’t even reached puberty yet) stealing from you and an adult. One would hope that a child who has through no fault of their own, pulled the short straw in the parental guidance area can be granted a second chance. But any adult or teen who acts like an adult should be extremely aware that they can be shot on sight for theft or trespass. Them’s the rules. IF you don‘t like’em; tough shitzky.

      Report Post » SgtB  
    • UrsaMajor
      Posted on June 1, 2012 at 8:23am

      I’m sure all of you who are crying like the most leftist of lefties would just let the guy come into your home, take your television set and casually walk out.

      Hypocrites.

      Report Post »  
    • UrsaMajor
      Posted on June 1, 2012 at 8:28am

      Glad to know that I can casually walk into your homes unarmed and just take what I want of YOUR property and not have to worry about getting shot.

      Report Post »  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on June 1, 2012 at 9:15am

      @ sgtb

      “So basically, you all are trying to say that there is a dollar limit to theft at which point it becomes okay or not okay to shoot a thief?”

      No … not sure where you got that idea, but you apparently wanted to read that into the posts here for some reason. Perhaps so you could setup a strawman that even you are able to knock down?

      “But any adult or teen who acts like an adult should be extremely aware that they can be shot on sight for theft or trespass. Them’s the rules. IF you don‘t like’em; tough shitzky.”

      Apparently them’s not the rules [sic]. If they were, the store owner wouldn’t be in jail.

      And to all the other nimrods here who are equating my stance against attempted murder for petty theft, I’ve never once said it was OK to come into my home or store to steal something. Try it and see what pain it can cause on your body. I won’t shoot you, but I guarantee you will not be smiling.

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • DoseofReality
      Posted on June 1, 2012 at 10:29am

      SGTB – I wouldnt kill somoen over stealing my car. If my car was parked on the street and I came around the corner and saw someone stealing it, no I would not whip out a gun and shoot them. I have insurance, we have a police force…I might try to physically stop them, but is my incsured car worth it? I mean seriously, you guys are defending capital punishment for petty theft….do you know how insane that is? This is the stuff that the strictest sharia dominated countries dont even do….whats wrong with you?

      Report Post »  
  • JimL
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:25pm

    The Right to free beer– that may just win us over.

    Report Post »  
  • ColiroConstantine
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:24pm

    Just the fact that the store owner thought the thief was armed should have warranted more of an investigation before simply slapping the cuffs on him. There are still way too many unknowns to make a valid opinion on the matter, so lets not jump to conclusions yet, or a firestorm like Trayvon will erupt unnecessarily. (Granted, the MSM certainly threw lots of ignition on those flames)

    The only sure-fire (no pun intended) thing that could be taken away from this article is the fact the robber wasn’t even arrested, and should have been.

    Report Post »  
    • pamela kay
      Posted on June 1, 2012 at 3:20am

      I agree with you. Had the shop owner shot him inside the store I wonder if he would have been charged. Much like Zimmerman who was told not to follow Trayvon, but he did any way.

      Report Post » pamela kay  
  • blazingaway
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:24pm

    If you‘re going to steal and you’re going to do it from someone who is armed then expect to be shot at.
    That’s the way it should be, and if it were, then people either wouldn‘t steal or they’d steal from those who are not armed … which would be liberals and progressives against guns, who would eventually realize that they’re as stupid as we think they are and eventually would arm themselves. If it’s not guns then it would be baseball bats, knifes, steel bars or whatever else works well

    Report Post » blazingaway  
  • 9111315
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:22pm

    Who cares, it’s California.

    Report Post »  
    • Gonzo
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 4:22pm

      If nothing else it’s a good marketing opportunity. Remember ” I’d walk a mile for a Camel”? Now we have “I’d take a bullet for a Bud”. It’s got potential!

      Report Post » Gonzo  
    • KenInIL
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 6:18pm

      Maybe all the shopkeeper had to do was fill out an invoice and turn it over to the state to get reimbursed for the stuff that was stolen. We wouldn’t want to get the robber in trouble, after all CA prisons are full. It is certainly cheaper for the state!

      Report Post »  
    • hidden_lion
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 7:51pm

      Gonzo-
      Great response, you should send that into budweiser marketing dept.

      Report Post » hidden_lion  
  • The_Plumber_Says
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:21pm

    Everyone here make sure you know a friend with a backhoe.
    Just sayin…………

    Report Post » The_Plumber_Says  
    • Texas Chris
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:00pm

      Make sure to plant a tree on top of the mound. It’ll never be dug up in California…

      Report Post »  
    • JoeBtfsplk
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:09pm

      treehuggers!

      Report Post »  
    • macpappy
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 4:08pm

      A pig farm is much better.

      Report Post » macpappy  
    • bumfuzeled
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 4:31pm

      sounds like Dose and husky need to stay out of Texas

      Report Post » bumfuzeled  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 5:34pm

      Actually hrusky sounds like an honest to goodness libertarian. His posts when I first saw them a few weeks ago looked trollish, but not since then.

      Does_of_Reality is preachy. Even his post name is preachy. He doesn’t add much except for static.

      Report Post »  
  • redneckgenius
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:15pm

    Oh the poor thief…. he‘s lucky someone couldn’t aim. So for all you lovers of thiefs, murderers and good for nothing troublemakers… don’t come to NC and walk into my home or business and expect not to get one between the eyes. When you decide it’s ok for you to take my stuff… We’ve got a problem…. Oh wait , I understand… you have learned this from our fearless leader, Obama… Its ok to take from those who have and expect no repercussions, especially with the DOJ covering for you … Times are a changin

    Report Post » redneckgenius  
    • DoseofReality
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:20pm

      Redneck – you would shoot and kill a 21 year old kid over stealing a case of beer? Whats wrong with you?

      Report Post »  
    • Joyce61
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:30pm

      Doseofrealty,

      No, The thief risked being shot over a case of beer!

      Report Post »  
    • Docrow
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:37pm

      free beer, milk, TV’s, jewelry, or what ever else is at DOSEOFREALITY’s house……..

      Report Post » Docrow  
    • crazyrightwingmom
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:43pm

      Dose: You would steal a case of beer and risk being killed? Not smart.

      Report Post »  
    • DoseofReality
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:45pm

      Would you shoot and kill a 15 year old kid stealing a candy bar? Theres a reason we have laws, have a ploice force. You cant just shoot to kill unless your life is threatened. The shop owner should be sharged with attempted murder, the thief with larceny

      Report Post »  
    • hcartexas
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:51pm

      DOSEOFREALITY….. I would…every single time.

      Report Post » hcartexas  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:02pm

      @ hcartexas

      You are a pathetic excuse for a human being, then. You people that want to shoot to kill for petty theft are no better than those who advocate sharia law – the savages living in the middle east. That you cannot see this proves that point.

      Of course, there are pretty good odds you are just blowing smoke while you‘re sitting in your mommy’s basement in your underwear pretending you’re a big, rugged man posting on a blog.

      Loser.

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • Texas Chris
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:03pm

      Over a candy bar? Is the thief armed? Has my shop been robbed before? Recently? Multiple times? Did the previous robbers have weapons? Guns?

      There is a strong possibility that I would if this was the case. If you let a thief steal small items without repercussion, you’ll get more thieves and they steal bigger stuff.

      Shoot one, the theiving stops.

      Report Post »  
    • DoseofReality
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:18pm

      you people are so tough – but your just scared little p*ssies. Shooting a kid over a candy bar, do you even know how unbelievable insane you are?

      Report Post »  
  • goahead.makemyday
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:14pm

    I am so glad I don’t live in California. Here I can (or possibly used to) defend myself with lethal force if I am faced with bodily harm and be legally protected(unless of course I confront a suspicious person who then attacks me by trying to bash my head in and the person turns out to black).

    Report Post » goahead.makemyday  
  • h20sue
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:11pm

    Heaven help someone who tried so come into my shop to steal or into my home uninvited. I will not hesitate to shoot. It’s disgusting. Same thing happened in NC just recently, and store owner shot both (19 and 14 year young honor roll brothers) They are dead becuase they beat the man, and thought he was dead. They got the surprise of their lives when he crawled behind his counter and shot over his shoulder, hitting both and killing them. I hope they left what the blacks call “legacy” as I doubt their parents could have been very proud. Now days, since there is “no child left behind” even at the age of 19 (still in high school), all you have to do is attend a full school year and you get on “honor roll”. Education is slack every where. They can’t write, can’t speak English, and all they are able to mutter around our area is Ebontics. It‘s a sad world we’re living in, and Obama wants taxpayers to fun “grants” to give them free degrees. They are pushed through school and can’t do the work when they graduate. You can’t fire them for this, just do massive lay offs. Sad, very sad.

    Report Post »  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:19pm

      I mean this with the utmost of respect, but you may wish to reconsider making statements like that on a public forum. Attorneys can and have demanded internet chat/forum records in cases of self defense, using words like “I will not hesitate to shoot” in order to prove a premeditated attitude of malice.

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • Bob_R_OathKeeper
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:30pm

      GHOSTofJefferson – The sad fact is that could be applied to anyone, whether they said anything or not, if this administration wanted someone gone, they will be gone and this is the problem.

      Report Post » Bob_R_OathKeeper  
  • RightPolitically
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:10pm

    I know that law doesn’t support my view, but I believe a person has the right to defend his or her property with deadly force if no other means is necessary. If we were able to do so legally, the crime rate for theft of property and mugging assault would drop off a cliff, perhaps by as much as 80%. A fear of death instead of mere arrest if caught would have just such an effect in my opinion. Unfortunately, the criminal justice bureaucracies, cottage industries of sorts, would cry foul because half of them would be put out of business if we were ever able to shoot to kill. Those unions would never stand for that. After all, bureaucracies must be preserved above all else.

    Report Post » RightPolitically  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:27pm

      That’s a reasonable view. At least you recognize the law as it exists. We may not like it, but it’s been that way for as long as I can remember, and a lot longer before that.

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
  • Want our country back
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:10pm

    under this administration – EVERYTHING is upside down. Terrorists are idolized and our heroes are called terrorists.

    Go Scott Walker – Wisconsin

    Report Post » Want our country back  
  • Endstatism
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:09pm

    Need to start protesting in front of the police department and demand why they are taking up for criminals. Protest in front of the arresting police officer`s home as well.

    Report Post » Endstatism  
    • mtcountrygrl
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:17pm

      Little known fact about big cities and places like CA, they will not investigate property crimes unless they exceed a certain dollar amount (hundreds of thousands). The criminals know it too! They just take a report so you can file an insurance claim.

      Report Post »  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:33pm

      mtcountrygrl

      Little known fact about big cities and places like CA, they will not investigate property crimes unless they exceed a certain dollar amount (hundreds of thousands). The criminals know it too! They just take a report so you can file an insurance claim.
      ***
      Maybe that is one reason why the Mafia gets a foothold. If police won’t uphold the law then they get replaced!

      Report Post »  
  • freedom for sale
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:09pm

    Every store owner in the US should have a loaded .45 under the counter. People would think twice about robbing convenience stores.

    Report Post » freedom for sale  
    • goahead.makemyday
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:18pm

      It’s a .45 in the belt and a 12 gauge under the counter, get it right man. ;)

      Report Post » goahead.makemyday  
    • nocalifornia
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:21pm

      Then they wouldn’t be “convenient” anymore for the young hoodie wearing rascals.

      Report Post » nocalifornia  
  • thegreatcarnac
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:08pm

    What should people do,….just watch as theives walk in and simply leave with their belongings or merchandise? No! You should have a right to protect yourself and your property. In many southern states, you can. Now….you cannot watch them steal and then follow them 8 blocks and then open fire. You must defend your property at the time of the event.

    Report Post »  
  • mtcountrygrl
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:06pm

    On the flip side, if this guy is not charged and is active duty Army, trust me the Army will deal with him. It is against military policy to get a sun burn (damaging government property), so getting shot during the commission of a crime….

    Report Post »  
  • mcsledge
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:05pm

    Cases like this are going to make it open season on personal property theft.

    Don’t look now, but your personal property rights are fading away. What you can’t protect, you won’t be able to keep. And according to California, if you try to protect it, your a criminal.

    Report Post » mcsledge  
  • rickc34
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:01pm

    Hmm. Just let them rob you do not stand up for yourself. The police are not doing their job. This guys store has a history of being robbed the theif goes free and brings shame to our military. But this is what happens with liberals in charge. Welcome to California. Hide your wallet.

    Report Post »  
    • johnjamison
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:16pm

      Time to get some laws on the books. If you own a business theives are not stealing beer they’re stealing food from your families mouths,their stealing clothes from your family,their stealing the ability to pay for your family shelter,they stealing the your health insurance payments would could in fact lead to your death. I say the shot was self defense the shop owner should be given an award not a sentence.

      Report Post »  
  • DoseofReality
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:00pm

    You dont shoot people unless your life is in danger. Willing to kill somoeone over a case of beer, thats crazy. The shopkeeper should be in jail, as should be the thief.

    Report Post »  
    • Optimist4now
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:07pm

      You don’t shoot people unless you intend to kill them, put a weapon in their hand and swear self defense. Private property should be protected — anyone siding with the theif should be jailed.

      Report Post »  
    • mtcountrygrl
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:09pm

      This is the “Bubba effect”, people are sick of crime. If the government does not start doing more to protect it’s citizens from crime, you will see more and more of this. 80% of crime is commited by 20% of the population, if you do something about that 20%, crime would go down by 80% in this country. We need to stop giving people chance after chance. Most of this country goes their whole life without commiting a crime (except maybe a traffic violation). Repeat offenders need to be removed from society.

      Report Post »  
    • American Soldier (Separated)
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:15pm

      So what’s the deterrent for anyone willing to steal? I’d say facing down the barrel of the shop owner as you commit your crime, that will put fear in you. If you know, as a criminal, that you can run in there grab a case of beer and run and the shop owner can’t do anything but call for police after the fact, it’s like stealing candy from a baby. Think the cops will actually investigate the theft? No $15, hell no they won’t. But if you show the criminals that anyone who steals from my store is subject to DEATH, they may think twice before robbing me. You life and your property should be defensible with any force necessary.

      Report Post » American Soldier (Separated)  
    • DoseofReality
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:22pm

      So where does it end? I guess if a 12 year old kid shoplifts a candy bar you would open fire and blow his head off? You people are messed up.

      Report Post »  
    • DoseofReality
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:24pm

      MTCOUNTRY – crime rates are lower than they have been in a long time….crimes arent increasing. This is the way its always been. It was a 21 year old kid stealing a case of beer, he does not deserve to be shot and killed. He deserves to be arrested and chanrged with larceny. I truly think you people are scraed little children

      Report Post »  
    • mtcountrygrl
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:28pm

      @American Soldier
      This absolutely works too! Do you know how the cops/donuts sterotype got started? Duncan Donuts kept getting robbed (because it was open 24 hours), so they started offering free donuts to cops. This attracted police officers (and their guns) to the store at all hours and the store stopped getting robbed.

      Report Post »  
    • mtcountrygrl
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:33pm

      @Dose
      In CA they do not investigate property crimes unless they exceed a certain dollar amount (thousands of dollars). So thieves do not get charged unless they are caught in the act (often by the victim or bystanders). Property crime is not down in CA, it is up!

      Report Post »  
    • mtcountrygrl
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:35pm

      @ Dose
      Look, I don’t think people should lose their lives over theft. But if the possibility of getting shot by a property owner is not there, it becomes open season on theft. Especially in a place like CA that has a known policy of not pursuing property crimes unless they are over a certain dollar amount.

      Report Post »  
    • hcartexas
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:57pm

      DOSEOFREALITY… Im going to come to your house, and politely steal everything….I will also insult your wifes cooking, and make sexual referneces about your kids. I know you wont shoot me, so I have nothing to fear….. see you at 7pm.

      Report Post » hcartexas  
    • Texas Chris
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:07pm

      Make sure and say you are unarmed and are no threat to his physical safety. You’re just after the TV.

      Report Post »  
    • DoseofReality
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:16pm

      HCAR – Id would just grab you and hold you down, subdue you until the police arrived. I would never shoot and kill another human being unless my life was obvioulsy in danger. You just have a little pr*ck and like to talk tough on the internet

      Report Post »  
    • EGsimi1776
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:46pm

      as an armed California resident if you break into my home I will shoot to end the threat (if you end up not living then so be it) the law in California is pretty clear on this, your mere presence breaking into my home constitutes a viable threat.

      A publicly accessible business such as a store is a different matter… now in this story had the horrid excuse for a soldier approached the store owner or threatened him then the owner could have been justified. Shooting a retreating person is never justified nor should it be.

      The tough talk from keyboard commandos on this site is rather sickening. Shoplifting should now be punishable by death in your twisted worldview? messed up folks…

      Report Post » EGsimi1776  
  • lukerw
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 1:59pm

    Will the SANE people Please move out of California… before GOD destroys it alike Sodom!

    Report Post » lukerw  
  • MBridOKC
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 1:58pm

    This is what peolpe who live in California get when they are the victim!?!? GET OUT OF CALIFORNIA PEOPLE. This is ridiculous! Had he killed the guy it is almost guaranteed he would have been charged with homicide. I hope he does not go to prison. This is a failure of the legal system to protect those who should be protected!

    Report Post »  
    • mtcountrygrl
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:11pm

      Moved from CA in 97. Paid for the move with an insurance settlement on my stolen property. My truck was broken into 4 times. On the 5th time they took the whole truck. I got the insurance check and got the he!! out.

      Report Post »  
  • Landon410
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 1:57pm

    my comment didn’t show up, so if it ends up here twice, sorry

    I said that I hope the theif gets charged, and that while I understand self defense laws have limits, they really need to be case by case, and that since this shop owner has been robbed so many times and robbed at gun point he should try the battered wife defense

    Report Post »  
  • arfarb55
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 1:56pm

    California, what do you expect? Bad guys are protected, good guys are punished.

    Report Post » arfarb55  
  • Landon410
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 1:56pm

    they better charge this low life with theft
    i understand self defense laws, but I think you need to go case by case, this guy is terrified of getting robbed and maybe hurt, he should use battered wifes defense…….

    it works for chicks

    Report Post »  
  • GhostOfJefferson
    Posted on May 31, 2012 at 1:54pm

    You can’t just shoot people for theft. “I think he might have had a weapon” means she/he didn’t know, ergo, there is no claim of threat to life that justifies using deadly force in retaliation. Sorry, the thief was wrong and should be arrested, but arresting the store owner is a fair call. Being mad at thieves doesn’t mean you get to kill people not threatening your life.

    Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • MBridOKC
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:03pm

      You’re ridiculous. There is no way of knowing what someone who comes in and robs you is really going to do. You wait until they shoot at you first, or pull a knife, or hit you first? No. They are in the wrong for coming into your establishement and trying to rob you. You put your own life in someone elses hands as soon as you decide to go into someone’s establishement or home and rob them.

      Report Post »  
    • jonharker
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:10pm

      If more store owners took this kind of action, I can assure you they would no longer have to worry about thieves.

      Report Post »  
    • MBridOKC
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:13pm

      BRADLEE –
      You are a disgusting human being. You can make a point without wishing ill will on someone.
      Get off the posts you degenerate.

      Report Post »  
    • circleDwagons
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:16pm

      @ghost. The thief was threatning is life, he stole from his business.

      Report Post » circleDwagons  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:17pm

      I’ll make it very simple for you. Look up most laws in most states. If you are not in imminent life threatening danger, you cannot employ deadly force. You cannot say “well, I think he might have had a weapon, I wasn’t sure”. If you’re not sure, then by definition you cannot say he was threatening you with imminent danger to your life. There may be some states that are exceptions (I think Texas may allow defense of property as well as life, but I’m not entirely certain on that), but in most states if you pulled this stunt, the same exact scenario would have occurred (except, I believe, the thief would have been arrested as well).

      I have a CHL and have made a very strong point of knowing the law down to the last letter regarding the use and/or deployment of deadly force. People who do not understand the laws of their state will end up just like this guy.

      Look, I have sympathy for his situation, but the law says what the law says. You couldn’t even pull a gun on a fellow back in the “old West” without finding yourself in a world of legal hurt if you couldn’t definitively prove defense of life (or horse theft, which was also subject to allowing you to shoot the rustler).

      In short, this story is not surprising, and it’s how the law works and has worked in most anglo-saxon societies for centuries. Know the law, or pay the penalty, no matter how good your intentions.

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:22pm

      Bradlee, I’m going to report your post.

      You clearly cannot read the article. Here’s the relevant section:

      ““According to the police,” the Sun-Sentinel reports, “in California a person is allowed to use deadly force only when their life or the life or someone around them is immediately threatened.”

      That’s the case in many, many states. If you cannot definitively show that your life was in imminent danger, you will get arrested. Being an avid open and concealed carry advocate, I make it a point to know the law. You on the other hand simply wish to remain ignorant and pretend that you’d do something like this and have different results. Clue phone calling: You wouldn’t. If you did what he did, in most states, you’d be arrested too. Understand the law and please, stop flaunting your ignorance as if it were a badge of honor.

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:25pm

      @Circled

      Oh come now. Not one court in any state in any time in history would accept stealing a case of beer as being an imminent threat to your life.

      I hope and pray those thumping their chests at least try to understand the law of the land they live in, and if they don’t, I further hope and pray that they don’t get a CHL or carry, as they’re just asking to go to prison the first time they put their chest thumping philosophy into action.

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • Anonymous T. Irrelevant
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:29pm

      @Ghost
      Agreed. It’s a different story when your life is on the line, but this was just a case of beer. Nothing to kill over. I think the thief needs to be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Had he threatened the store owner, then the store owner has every right to shoot.

      Report Post » Anonymous T. Irrelevant  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:35pm

      @ bradlee

      You, sir, are a piece of dog dung. No rational, worthy person wishes anyone was harmed or worse, raped, due to a disagreement with them. If you are not a progressive, you certainly should be as your attitude would fit in quite well with them. Hopefully someday you will see how terrible your comment was, accept responsibility for making such a vile commment, and then apologize to @ ghostofjefferson, but I certainly doubt you have the character and integrity to do so.

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • dan@AL
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:36pm

      Sorry ghost but in Alabama you can!! Also you cant be charged with a crime or any civil actions if you are protecting your self, property or another person

      Report Post »  
    • Nanner-SW
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:38pm

      Wasn’t death a proper punishment for cattle rustling at one time. Why? Because the thief was stealing from someone else’s livelihood, basically stealing food from the owners mouth, slowly hurting him/her. Of course back then if a person had all their cattle stolen, they could starve to death where as now we have the government able to save us from that fate and we trust them ever so much.

      Report Post » Nanner-SW  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:39pm

      @ ghostofjefferson

      I agree with your assessment. I certainly would not want to live in a place where everyone just can shoot another for simple petty theft (or worse, suspicion of petty theft). While I can see the store owners frustration and I sympathize with him, we just cannot allow people to shoot each other over this sort of thing. Now, if the store owner can prove in a court of law that he truly was in fear of his life, that may be a different story, but until then, the police did the right thing in arresting him.

      To those that are in complete disagreement with you … can you imagine living in a world in which these people are all armed? Man … that is the progressive’s wet dream on proving how bad guns can be!

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:45pm

      @ nanner-sw

      You are correct … you used to be able to be hung for cattle-rustling. But, do you really want to live in a society like that? Certainly there should be punishment for theft, but to take someone’s life? Do you really not hold life more precious than that?

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 2:54pm

      @Dan

      Yeah, I know there are some states where property defense is allowed to one extent or another, but am not sure which ones, though I do make it a point to research when I travel to or through a given state(s), since I always travel armed. What I am sure of, is that California is not one of those states.

      @Hurl

      Thanks man, and thanks for your kind defense on this thread. People who in on breath claim to love firearms (as I do myself) and in the next think you can just whip out your pistol and start shooting in complete contradiction of their state’s law, scare the living bejeezus out of me. One doesn’t have to agree with the laws, in order to recognize the reality of the law.

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:09pm

      “Hurl” = JHRusky

      Sorry, don’t know how I transposed that. My bad. :)

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on May 31, 2012 at 3:46pm

      hrusky

      “You are correct … you used to be able to be hung for cattle-rustling. But, do you really want to live in a society like that? Certainly there should be punishment for theft, but to take someone’s life? Do you really not hold life more precious than that?”

      It seems to me that many thieves hold the life of store owners in contempt. I look at it as reciprocity.

      If the glass was more than 1/2 full I think the store owners would leave it up to the police. Instead the police leave it up to the store owner & the insurance companies. So who needs police?

      Report Post »  
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