This Is a Catholic Priest Rapping His Response to the ‘Hate Religion, But Love Jesus’ Video
- Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:24am by
Billy Hallowell
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As we’ve noted, not everyone is a fan of 22-year-old Jefferson Bethke’s “Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus.” In addition to going viral, the spoken word artist’s now infamous clip has spawned a plethora of responses. Among the flurry of videos offering rebuttal to Bethke’s anti-organized religion commentary comes one from Fr. Claude Burns, a Catholic priest at Holy Spirit Church in Evansville, Indiana. Burns, whose stage name is Fr. Pontifex, is a rapper who has taken the Catholic hip-hop world by storm (yes, there is, in fact, a Catholic hip-hop genre).
Fr. Pontifex’s response to Bethke is called “Why I love Religion, And Love Jesus,” as it delves into the reasons why holding reverence for both religious structures and the individual who is central to Christianity is, in his view, possible. Rather than opening with a frame that reads “Jesus > Religion,” as Bethke did, Fr. Pontifex’s video reads “Jesus <3 Religion.” (The “<3″ symbol is a text way of sying heart or love.)
“What if I told you, that Jesus loves religion?,” he says. “And that by his coming as a man, he brought his religion to fruition.”
Then he continues, responding to Bethke directly:
“See this had to be addressed, the use of illogical terms and definitions. You clearly have a heart for Jesus, but it’s fueling atheistic opinions. See, what makes religion great, is not errors of wars or inquisitions — it’s that broken men and women get to participate in his mission.”
Fr. Pontifex continues, addressing the original video‘s critique of religion’s handling of poverty and the other related elements. He defends what he calls the the church’s “oceans of compassion.” Then, he maintains that religion is needed to set parameters for those who worship Christ.
“And if I have the jersey and I’m playing for the Bulls, there’s gonna be some boundaries, regulations and some rules,” Fr. Pontifex raps. “You can’t have Christ without his church. You can’t have the king without his kingdom.”
Watch the video response, below:
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Comments (235)
JesusFreak490
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:12amBurthke’s definition of religion is the man-made rules and regulations that you have to live up to in order to enter heaven. I completely agree with him.
Report Post »Religion is works. Jesus is Grace. Now, of course, “Faith without works is dead.” But you can’t truly please God without faith in Him and the recieving of His grace. Because on our own, our good works are like filthy rags to Him. But through Him, through His Son’s sacrifice and His Spirit, we can do good things that will truly please Him.
As to this man‘s statement that you can’t have Christ without His church or the King without His kingdom, that is false. Jesus is the eternal God. His glory doesn’t depend on worship. His glory is never diminished. He is King of the Universe. He CREATED His kingdom. He doesn’t need anything to be King of all. He was King of all before He created all.
Baptism and Communion are not works that we have to do in order to recieve salvation, but they are reminders of Christ’s sacrifice and love for us. Communion, the recieving of bread and wine (grape juice) representing Jesus’ body and blood, is a reminder that He gave His body up to torture and that He spilled His blood for us that we might be saved. Baptism is the representation of His burial and ressurection. You put under the water and the old is washed away. You come out again a new creature in Christ. This is symbolic and cannot save you.
Religion will put you in chains but Jesus sets you free, because He already paid the cos
Woobster
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:36amExactly and these catholics have a real problem with all this stuff about Peter being the first pope and being the rock on which Jesus built the church- the bible says that Jesus is the chief “cornerstone” and if you look at the greek, which that passage is written in, Peter means “pebble” and Christ means “petra” which is rock! Jesus did not build the church on a pebble or on a man, but on himself.
Report Post »Mr. Bethke is right in that religion does not change hearts, it only tries to control people into doing things the church wants them to do- and while I belong to a local, new testament, bible- believing church- it is NOT the center of my salvation- Jesus is- no work that I can do or a church can do can save me- only the blood of Jesus Christ can save. I would also point out that Nicodemus was a religious man who came to Jesus at night and Jesus told him he needed to be “born again”- his religion wasn’t enough. How about the sadduccees and the Pharisees? Religious people that Jesus called “vipers”.
garyM
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:43amAmen, very good Gospel explanation with the few characters the Blaze gives!
Report Post »Q-960
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 11:51am@Woobster, Are you fluent in Greek? If Jesus had wanted to call Simon a small stone, the Greek “lithos” would have been used. The Greek words you are trying to compare are “petros” and “petra”, but by the time the gospels were written, they were all but synonyms. Also, Jesus spoke Aramaic, not Greek. Get yourself acquainted with Aramaic, then read John 1:42; Mathew 16:18 will make more sense to you.
Report Post »000degrees
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 11:56amAnd all of your knowledge on this subject comes from where exactly??? Sound to me like some people found someone else with the same opinion as their’s…all the while claiming false homage to Christ
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 12:08pmPeople who say, “It’s just symbolic” typically have no understanding of what symbolic mean, or how it participates in the thing to which it points. “Just symbolic” is a catch phrase used by those who would diminish the reality of a thing. Hence “just symbolic” means “It doesn’t mean anything.”
Report Post »4XGrace
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 1:39pmGod DID NOT build the Catholic church, man did. Religion is a work of man. Righteousness comes only from God through his son, the Word of God; not through some blasphemous work of man through a corrupt and vile pope or through his sacrilegious minions who deceive themselves into thinking that they OWN all of the GRACE of God and it is their job to dispense it through a ritual that literally crucifies Christ over and over and over again. SHAME on you MFs! It was the traditions of men and their religion that Christ condemned while on earth. The Catholics and EVERY OTHER “church” on earth seek to re-establish what has been condemned. The real church is the BODY of the Believer in SUBMISSION to God through HIS righteousness THE WORD of GOD who shed HIS blood for us to be washed in. Christ, who is now ALL of GOD’s RIGHTEOUSNESS is NOT represented by ANY MAN on EARTH. No meeting place, no Bible Study, no other thing on earth is the Church of God – anything else is just a cult … the culture of man.
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 2:40pm@4XGRACE
To Peter, Jesus said: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:19
To the rest of the disciples, Jesus said: “I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 18:18
Hmmmmm, lots of authority given to men there. Sure hope Jesus knew what he was doing there. Almost sounds like a cult if you ask me. Of course, that’s only true if I take your words seriously….which I don’t.
Report Post »4XGrace
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 5:02pmWSGAC
Report Post »If you actually KNEW your Bible and read it, understood it, rightly divided it and asked God for wisdom you would know that Peter USED the two keys in Acts; when preaching to the crowd of Jews on Pentecost and then preaching to the Gentiles at the Centurion’s house – he opened salvation to the Jews and then to the Gentiles. You would ALSO know that the 4 gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the perfect completion of the Old Testament. That they are addressed to the Jews then and to the Jews that will go through the Tribulation. You will KNOW that there is more than ONE gospel in the Bible and that each one is for a specific time. You would KNOW that Religion doesn‘t want to you to know that because if you did you wouldn’t waste your time darkening the doors of any church or following any preacher, priest or saint. Religion makes people stupid because they don’t have to think, study or pray anymore … they just have to be spoon fed pap from the hands of cunning men that leech off the poor and grind them into dust with their silly notions, absurd traditions and laughable superstitions. To imagine that Marry has power over THE Christ!?!?!? WTF is that? St. Upid strikes again. Oh, and what about “It is FINISHED.”? Then the “church” crucifies him over and Over and OVER again as if God saying that it is finished is a lie?!?!?!
AjAx
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 5:25pmYou ARE straight ahead ….It’s so simple. But they cannot see it because their eyes are WIDE shut.
Report Post »NewYorker@Heart
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 5:53pm@ jeasusfreak — “Baptism and Communion are not works that we have to do in order to recieve salvation, but they are reminders of Christ’s sacrifice and love for us…” Do you use the bible as the basis for your belief system? Im curious because in said bible, it states:
Mark 16:16- He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved
John 3:5 – Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God
These are just a couple. Baptism, by the proper authority is essential. But thats just according to the bible…thats all. But Im sure you will call my quoting word for word “improper interperatation.” Just saying. :)
Report Post »snooop1e
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 6:24pmWoobster, Jesus gave Peter and ONLY Peter the KEYS to the Kingdom of Heaven. I encourage you to take the time to meditate on what that means and why Jesus said it, why did Jesus only give Peter the keys and what was the significance of the keys in the Old Testament? Jesus gave all of the Apostles the power to Bind and Loose (on Earth and in Heaven) and the power to forgive and retain sins. Why did Jesus do this? Why give men the power to forgive and retian sins? Why did Jesus keep repeating that his body was TRUE food and his blood was TRUE drink. Why did Jesus say that anyone who eats His body and drinks His blood abides in Him and He in them? Why did Paul warn that anyone who eats the body or drinks the the blood without recognizing the body and blood eats and drinks condemnation upon himself. Why did Paul warn “The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?” I’m not asking what you have been told, I am asking you to ask yourself honestly why did Jesus say these things and what do these things mean? When Jesus said “this is my body” why did he say that? Why did he hold up the bread and say it was his body? Remember your flesh is of no avail, the words Jesus speaks are spirit and life, flesh and blood cannot reveal these things to you but only God in Heaven….God Bless…..
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 6:40pm@4XGRACE
Actually, I know my Bible quite well, the history of the canonization of scripture, and even the original languages, but no biggie. But I do wonder if you are aware of what “allegorical interpretation” is? If not look it up, cuz your “two keys” silliness is a perfect example. And btw it was not only to Peter that authority was given…hence the other text I posted.
You also seem quite steeped in a Dispensational view of scripture…that hairbrained, “Johnny-come-lately” system of interpretation of the scriptures that is the bread and butter of shallow American Evangelical Christianity. Perhaps if you would broaden your reading a little more by moving away from Tim LaHaye’s “Left Behind” series, you could add some historical perspective and understanding to your shallow ecclesiology. But I will admit, this isn’t likely.
Report Post »4XGrace
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 7:29pmNewYorker@Heart & snooop1e
LOFL … St. Upid strikes again … Bible babble, that’s what you guys a spouting. Crap handed out at seminaries to the dead for the dead to blind the deaf and dumb the blind. RIGHTLY divide. If you don‘t understand the Bible don’t go to the theologians or some commentary about the Bible, go to the one who wrote the Word of God. Ask God to give you wisdom and understanding. Then apply what he tells you in his word to your own heart and life. Stop believing the machinations of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness; but believe him who died for you and rose again. Remember that there is more than one gospel in the Bible: for example what was the gospel to Adam and Eve before they fell? “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it.” Is that the gospel for us today? The gospel for the Jews when Moses brought them out of Egypt was the Mosaic law with all sorts of animal sacrifices. Is that the gospel for us today? What is the “everlasting gospel”? Look it up in Revelation. Is that the gospel for us today in the age of Grace? I think not.
WSGAC
Report Post »Gain a brain. I read all the crap for all the good it did for me. You are too sophisticated and steeped in the traditions of man. Bow down to Mary, say your rosary, burn your candles and pray to your Nazi pope. Have fun giving away your world to unholy and unscrupulous men. Go ahead, make the rich richer. You can know all about the Bible and yet still know nothing of
BetterInformed
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:23pm@4xgrace
Report Post »I guess the possibility of you becoming Catholic is out of the question.
4XGrace
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:33pmCrumbzores. My last word got cut off there. :-(
You can know all about the Bible and yet still know nothing of God.
That’s right BETTERINFORMED, why go to bed with a whore when you can find true love with God.
Report Post »sodacrackers2
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:50pmWoobster, “these Catholics” trace their roots to Jesus and the Apostles, not Luther or Calvin. The Church includes all those who believe in Jesus; some are not in full communion.
Report Post »Luke21
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 11:42pm@Jesusfreak: Amen brother.
@4xGrace: Your theology is spot on, however you need to remember that a soft answer turns away wrath. I only hope WTF means “Why The Face”. Remember dear brother, the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5)
@NewYorker@Heart: You tie 2 incongruent verses together to create a false conclusion. Your 1st example Mark 16:16 is true, he that believes & is baptized is saved. However you incorrectly conclude from this that he that believes & is not baptized is NOT saved. Here you error.
When for example did the thief on the cross get baptized (Luke 23:43)? The Word of God also says that Whosever calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved (Romans 10:3, Acts 4:12) – & says nothing of baptism. And of course Ephesians 2:8-10: we are saved by Grace thru Faith, not by works – but saved for good works set out before the foundation of the world. Nor does John 3:16 mention anything about baptism, which brings me to your 2nd verse John 3:5.
Christ is not speaking of baptism at all, but of a new birth. All men are born of water (Angels are not), but to be born again one must be born of the Spirit. Re-read John 3:5:
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is BORN of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”
Even Nicodemus got that part right – hence his confusion about re-entering the womb.
Baptism is a work – a good work of obedience, but NOT a work of salvation.
Report Post »PaxInVeritate
Posted on January 24, 2012 at 8:07pmTo my brothers and sisters in Christ. Our Lord was rejected by the world. Why do you think that we, His servants, are better than The Master? Was He not reviled, buffeted and spat upon? Praise God that we are blessed, even if it is through online postings, to be treated as He was. In regards to those who are unwilling to accept the One Universal Faith, they will not be persuaded to accept the Truth here, no matter how eloquent you may be. They have been taught to think this way. Love, fast, and pray for the conversion and enlightenment of their hearts is all you can do. The rest is up to The Lord.
Report Post »ladyfrog100
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:11amAll this talk about Jesus, but I noticed that a woman holds center stage in your church. It appears what you are saying with your mouth is contradicted by what your life is showing. Religion was created by man, not Jesus Christ. Jesus condemned the religion of the Pharisees and we have Pharisees in the organized churches today. Jesus Christ brought us redemption and salvation through His shed blood on the cross and FAITH is the only way to walk with Jesus. The dictates of man don’t hold water in the matter of FAITH. I must follow Christ in EVERYTHING, not the dictates of man.
Report Post »Joe Schmuck
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:26amAmen!
Report Post »garyM
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:47amAmen on everything, Jesus must have supremacy in everything, Jesus doesn’t take too kindly of anyone separating Him from any portion of their life. The people that hold to separation of church and state democratic rhetoric do not know what they say, either that or they just don’t understand the Gospel!
Report Post »Q-960
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 12:00pmI assume you are talking about the Virgin Mary when you say a woman holds center stage. First, I see little problem with venerating the vessel who brought God in the flesh into our world. Catholics don’t pray to Mary and the Saints like they are gods, we ask them, just as you would ask a friend, to pray with you.
As for the dictates of man, read Romans 13, please.
Report Post »king1
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 12:07pmMary does not take center stage christ does if you notice the tabernacle with the blessed host sits infront she is just presenting him to the world. Jesus came to release us from death which was brought by the devil to eve then to adam. In the same way that eve chose to go against gods will and bring sin into the world mary chose to bring forgivness at the risk of death in to the world. She is not center stage but she is a big part of the story. That is the fullness of truth. One never prays to mary herself they pray that she carry there petitions to her son as it says in revelations 5:8 the saint carry the prayers to god. With I ask that you try to learn more before you pass judgement. May the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you forever and ever. Amen
Report Post »ShotgunB
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 7:16pmFor 4XGRACE and the rest who speak as if they know what is true and what is false; all I have to say to you is, are you infallable? Jesus wanted His Church to be one, just as He and the Father are ONE. For anyone reading these comments would say that Christians are anything but one! And who are we to believe; the Baptist’s (pick which one of the many), the Methodist’s, the Lutheran’s? For 1500 years the Church was one, as Jesus wanted, now there are over 40,000 denominations all claiming to have the truth. What was the fruit of the Reformation? Well, you can see it right here on this board. I’d suggest that you would read not only the Bible, which did not drop out of the sky, but was born out of a Catholic council and also what the first deciples wrote; the one’s who sat at the feet of the Apostels. These men believed that the Eucharist was truly the Body & Blood of Christ. I wonder why they thought that? And as far as Our Lady goes, read what the Catholic Church really teaches about her, not what some uninformed preacher told you. I read the Catachism of the Catholic Church and found that your arguements are completely false! Also, please write as if you were a true follower of Christ, without the hate that your words relate about yourself (WTF)sic..
Report Post »4XGrace
Posted on January 24, 2012 at 12:26amSHOTGUNB
Firstly the Catholic Church is not, was not and will not EVER be the Church of God. No organization of man around a Bible, a creed, a belief or a miraculous image bleeding blood will EVER be the Church of God. If you ever want to understand God get yourself a Bible … a real Bible that doesn‘t have the Nazi pope’s imprimatur on it, ask God for understanding and be submitted to his will and read the scripture for yourself. Secondly, the catechism is work of man based on the traditions of man and is anti-Biblical (in the place of the Bible) just as the pope is anti-Christ (or so he claims to be). Finally where do catholics get off by calling Mary the “Blessed Virgin”? she had children after Jesus. She wasn’t born of a virgin birth nor was she assumed into heaven – she died of old age. She is not the queen of heaven any more than Astarte is. If she is the queen of heaven why would she need salvation? “And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” Luke 2.46 and 47. The catholic church is the embodiment of everything that Jesus railed against to do with religion. If you deny that truth then you deny Christ. If you deny Christ then you are lost. I don’t need sophisticated and complicated exegetical tools or hermeneutical tom foolery or some high and mighty education or even voodoo to explain my beliefs in the Bible. I only need the Bible and God. Simple and sure.
Report Post »bigkinglsu
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:11amThe church is not a religion. The church is the body of believers that is more than denomination. His kingdom is not the religion. Religion is man made but yes there are rules boundaries. They can be found in his word. The catholic church his a perfect example. They many rules and dogmas that are not found in the bible but are held at the same level. Jesus came to set us free from man made rules and regulation. He even came to set us free from the law. We live by his grace and not by law. The catholic church adds there own laws that you must follow to get to heaven. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t hate Catholicism. I just disagree with it. I believe Catholics can be just as saved as any other Christian.
Report Post »Deborah
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 11:26amDid you know that RELIGION literally means “relationship?” So if you hate religion, you hate relationship. Just sayin’ . . .
Report Post »Q-960
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 12:13pmWhere in the Bible does it say that it (the Bible) should be the sole rule of faith? I would like for you to tell me when the Bible, as we know it today, was assembled? Could, perhaps, there have been things Jesus did which were not recorded in the bible (John 21:25)? It seems foolish, to me at least, to hold the Bible as the be all end all; don’t get me wrong, scripture is infallible, but when reading it man himself does not share the same quality. Mans fallibility is justification for the hierarchy of the Church, the Church doesn’t simply spit out meaningless rules, scriptural interpretations have been debated within it for two-thousand years.
Report Post »Deborah
Posted on January 24, 2012 at 3:54amThank you, Q-960. I couldn’t have said it better.
Report Post »bigkinglsu
Posted on January 26, 2012 at 12:38pmDeborah- So you are telling me that when Jesus rebuked the religious people of his day, he was hating relationships? Religion is mans attempt to reach up and have a relationship with God. The thing is its already been done. God reached down to us to have a relationship with us. He has done it because we can’t. We are flawed and so are our religion.
Q-960- Galatians 1:9:
9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Revelation 22:18:
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
These are just examples. You believe the bible is infallible then tell me of another book that is infallible if the bible is not the only source.
I know how the bible was put together. Basically, leaders of the early church put it together by testing each book to see if it didn’t contradict the gospel.
I just want to make myself clear. What I don’t agree with is the rules and dogmas that are not in the bible. Like intercession of the saints for Catholicism or No dancing for Baptist. I think any denomination can agree on the basics like the ten commandments or the trinity. The point is don’t depend on man (aka religion) depend on God.
Report Post »watchmany2k
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:06am“Where ever two or more of you are gathered in my name, there I AM”
“Organised” Religion, is the natural outcome of this command.
It is the work of the enemy to keep you from the power of gathering together in faith, worship or work.
Even a monk in seclusion, spends some time each day in community.
Report Post »islamhater
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:02amThis is why i don‘t go to church cause it’s run by man.. Man lies.Catholic church is to big for it‘s own good and i don’t believe it for god but MONEY..I will support NO church that allow‘ed or still allows it’s priest to abuse children and cover it up…Church is all about MONEY not god..The pope was a nazi youth. I don’t like the catholic church and those who still support it.. It’s crime what they did to children and no one has held them responseble…
Report Post »king1
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 12:15pmwhat a copout
Report Post »islamhater
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 1:30pm@KING1: really i’m a copout.Because i believe in freedom of religion for all. Sry if i pointed out some facts of the catholic church. Yes everyone has an right to speek what they belive but don’t have the right to impose those beliefs on others as in laws. putting up a cross or the 10 commandments in the lobby of a fedral building or hang jesus on a wall in a classroom or a prayer hanging on a wall in a school. there is no sepperation of church and state. So i’m a copout ya says you. I think its time for both sides to stfu and let people live their free lives the way it was intended…….
Report Post »chigger
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 3:29pm@IslamHater: why not try a small non-creed Protestant church or a small group home church. Either way its not a organized meeting but independent to worship and learn about God without a lot of rules and regulations and no stigma of leaders molesting children. We need to be together with like-minded people to support and encourage on another.
Report Post »ShotgunB
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:00pmIslamhater- Priest’s are men, sinfull, just as everyone else. You don’t throw out Peter, James, John, ect., because of Judas. There will always be bad people, even in the Church. Jesus said that Hades (Hell) would try and destroy the Church, but will not prevale. If you would look at the facts, the % of pedophile priest’s are no more that the % of preachers or teachers of any other organization or religeon. Sure, the Catholic Church got a black eye with its scandle of pedophile priest’s and deservatively so, but there have always been scandles within the Church, but she still stands! And if you would be true with your facts you would know that the Catholic Church has done more good over the centuries than any other organization. The Catholic Church and its monestries are where the poor people would go for shelter, food, medical help, education and a whole host of other charities. This is where the $$ goes. I don‘t see priest’s living high on the hog like many preachers have (and the # are staggering). In fact, most have taken a vow of poverty! Sure you can point to a few bad apples, but you can do that everywhere; that is the nature of man. I know good Catholics and bad Catholics. I know good protestants and bad protestants. Jesus said, “You will know them by their fruit” (works). We are all saved by Gods Grace, but we must accept it and put it into pratice. You can get a present, but if you don’t open it what good will it do for you? Faith, hope, & love-the greatest
Report Post »islamhater
Posted on January 24, 2012 at 9:41amThe pope has stated he want’s a one world government and transfer of wealth and he as a teenager was part of the nazi youth. Your % thing is a farce.. You nor do i know how many children was abused because they covered it up.You don’t like Soros or Obama They want the same thing as the pope.So tell me where i’m rong. Blinded by faith.. Believe in god not a church ran by socialist/marxist.
Report Post »WatchingObama
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:57amThis “priest” is associating the church with religion and religion as the church. WRONG! The ecclesia is a group or body of believers not any church structure. Those who follow Christ are the church. Bethke‘s rap describes what’s wrong with the structure of religion – fake, self centered, laking life, hypocrtical leadership, etc.
Anyone who would try to refute or give a rebutle Bethke’s rap is simply stuck in their system of religion – associating a religious, lifeless, bondage laden, system of “doing” things to what Jesus intended His followers to be; full of love, absent of hate, praying constantly, always hoping for the best.
Religion is what causes wars – look at the Crusades. Look at the Dark Ages. Look at the black eye the Catholic Church has concerning pedofiles.
The exposure of the ecclesia causing harm to others on a mass scale is coming soon. God is about to clean up His body before His next big move.
People get ready! Jesus is coming!
Report Post »DRed
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:14amExactly!
Report Post »Joe Schmuck
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:17amVery good –
Actually, I wouldn‘t be surprised if ’Religion‘ hasn’t turned more folks away from Christ, than has drawn to Him. Religion can mess up one’s mind.
A Truly Christian church is very good, but also very hard to find.
Report Post »Joe Schmuck
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:52amYes, Christ came to establish His Church … not a religion.
For some reason, people are mistaking religion for church.
While the folks usually equate a building with a church, the New Testament makes it clear that Christians are the church. You don’t have to become a Methodist, Lutheran, Catholic or whatever, to belong to the body of Christ … the Christian church.
Christ did not have many good things to say about the religious leaders.
Religion, both then and now, is often misused for power and control. I’m not saying ‘Don’t go to church’ … just find one that teaches the love of Christ rather than the ‘Fear of God’.
Blessings …
Report Post »WatchingObama
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:58amI couldn’t have said that better myself!
Report Post »Good post!
garyM
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:51amFind a church that teaches both because the Bible speaks of both. The wrath is God is real and it will fall on all unbelievers! The Love of God that He forgives and saves those who are condemned at birth which is all of us. A child is in God’s hands until he reaches the age of understanding!
Report Post »Navy5170
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 4:18pmThe fear of God as you call it, is a misuse on your part. The fear of God is paramount in worship, as the meaning of fear is reverence. If you do not fear God you do not reverence God therefore your worship is crippled. Learn the meaning of the words used in scripture before you tell someone to not do anything.
Report Post »Joe Schmuck
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 7:55pm@Navy5170
If you were replying to my post:
“The fear of God as you call it, is a misuse on your part.” I don’t think so. As a child I was being taught to be afraid of God. That’s not what Jesus is all about.
“ The fear of God is paramount…” I’m with you.
Sorry if you found my post confusing.
Blessings …
Report Post »ares338
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:44amI am not a proponent of big organized religion myself for my own reasons which I won‘t go into because I won’t change anyone‘s mind amd they won’t change mine either. It’s very heartening to see people peacefully disagreeing while arguing their sides. Well, at least most people…lol.
Report Post »Dauh
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:43am“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
-Joseph Smith–at age 14.
That‘s what the kid’s video tapped into. It’s what atheists have rightly tapped in to. Man-made Christianity comes off as evil. Not that in Joseph’s vision, God had an issue with the leaders of Christian churches, not the followers. Look to who’s pocketing the cash, and you’ll have your answer.
Report Post »wethepeoplepress
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:38amReligion and God are between you and your maker. Do you really think God wants you to give 10% of your financial income to the church? That was put in by man to control the people. In the bible there is a verse that states who ever is in charge of the people was put in place one way or another by god so you must obey, what kind of hocus pocus garbage is that. I notice all the evengelicals who take every verse of the bible literaly seem to skip over that one.
Religion is what you ,make of it, like life. Hell I could say it is partially the reason for the downfall of the republic. 90% of churches side with illegal immigration and use coffer moneys to subsidize the care, housing and lobbying efforts. Yah, real conservative are you supporters of those who support illegal immigration and the churches who push it.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:53am“The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” (2 Corinthians 9:6-7 ESV).
Report Post »JediKnight
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 4:59pm@wethepeoplepress: Wow are you ignorant. That wasn’t added by man. Genesis 28:22, KJV “And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God’s house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee”. A tenth is 10%. But try not to let your hate of Churches (and religion) get in the way of the facts.
Report Post »ThankBabyJesus
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:33amIf Jesus was around would you let him in priest?
Report Post »behindthejab
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 3:49pmOnly if he were a little boy…
Report Post »Miguelito
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:30amThis is good, lets have a debate! History has been so erased! Look at the Catholic Church, the Roman Catholic Church and its history, real history! They ran the government and killed, not in self-defense. I disagree with the Priest, Jesus did not come to earth as a man to bring us a religion, he came bring the Gospel. Religious leaders had Jesus killed! Glenn is trying to get us to seek the truth. For instant, who was taught in school that Columbus discovered America? We all were. The fact is that Columbus was lost and the 500 indian tribes that discovered Columbus. Who has heard of the Mayflower Pact? It was written on the Bible principles. People are trying to destroy history! Ask yourself….How can America be a superpower when it is only 235 years old. America was written on God’s principles. Look at what is going on in the other countries that are thousand of years old? We must not turn our back on God’s principles!
Report Post »SpankDaMonkey
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:29am.
“You can’t have Christ without his church. You can’t have the king without his kingdom.”
True, but I can do without all your man made laws…….
Report Post »straighttalk4u
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:10amThough I agree with some aspects of what the “Hate Religion” poster has to say, I feel for the most part he is describing hypocrisy and false religion. Christ came to set the captives free but as He did so it was with the stipulation to go and sin no more. A lot of professors of Christ in the modern era desire to receive Christ while maintaining their sin as well, it does not work that way. To struggle with a sin is a far cry different then engaging in and practicing sin with intent on a daily basis.
Report Post »The Priest has it right when he speaks of the church as a structure, two fold, as in a dwelling structure and a place for structured living. From my experience people who reject the Church on the grounds of unnecessary and insignificant also live in a reckless manor, not all but most, and are in rebellion against what the God they claim to serve has put in place for His people, they kindda feel above it.
Likewise the Church is not a lawyer’s office to walk into to find out what you can and cant get by with. It is a place to worship God and fellowship with His people. There is a grey area in life; it’s not all black and white.
Demaslut
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:30amThe catholic religon is the Devils base.
Report Post »dontbotherme
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 1:43pmdemoslut – No it is not.
Report Post »EroticPhoenix
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:59amPriest‘s are so screwed up in the head it’s no wonder they do the things they do. I don‘t think there’s anything worst than the catholic church it’s truly a mental illness, even more so than mohamadism. The church is completely over run with pedofiles and homosexuals. They target weak minded people that they can control, they have murdered millions of women and children over the centuries. Anyone who is so weak minded that they need a crutch like religion and believe in a bunch of made up B.S. should just take drugs.
Report Post »martymart
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:08amI think the other rapper should go back to his liberal chalkboard and try again cuz i like this priest
Report Post »shackero
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:12amYou sound a bit bitter in your assessment.
You should channel your anger toward the (Big Governments) that have used religion as a tool for controlling the masses—-
I actually feel sorry for you……….
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:15am@EROTICPHOENIX – Gee, you‘d think with a name like EroticPhoenix you’d be ecstatic about the church being filled with homosexuals and pedophiles. I’d wager to bet you praise it when found in secular institutions. But when the secular dregs make their way into the church you blame the church?
Like the priest said, you blame the hearse for the dead person. Moron!
Report Post »angelcat
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:20amPriests, like any other group of people, have those among them who did wrong. It is not fair to paint the whole group on the basis of the actions of a small percentage (smaller than the percentage of teachers who abuse children and about the same as the population as a whole who abuse children). Most are fine people who truly want to help others to love and serve God. Condemn those who did the wrong, but don’t act as though they are all “messed up” because they aren’t.
Report Post »UnsilentMajority
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:38amWhile I wont go as far as EroticPhoenix I will say this. Its just astonishing to watch that response video. It is very evident that the priest doesnt get it either. Its obvious that the priest doesnt read the bible or history. JESUS > religion not jesus = religion or jesus < RELIGION.
“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?"
That passage comes from the book of John and it concerns Nicodemus who was a teacher and a pharisee. He didnt get it either even though it was the messiah himself which was telling him. So I dont expect that a catholic priest would get it either. Not that I am comdeming the priest. It just that organized religion no matter how compassionate is still just religion.
There is only one name by which you can be saved an it is NOT religion or the virgin Mary!
Report Post »angelcat
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 1:47pmUnsilentmajority, it is you who don’t get it. I would have to write too much to explain all of where you are wrong, but the one thing I can address quickly is the Virgin Mary. Catholics don’t believe that we are saved through her in any way. We venerate (N OT worship) her and pray to her to ask her to pray to her Son for us. Before you talk about what you don’t understand, perhaps you need to do MUCH more reading from reliable Catholic sources.
Report Post »UnsilentMajority
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:19pmangelcat,
If you want to honor mary thats fine with me. If you want to pray to her thats fine too I guess but seems questionable to me. The last time I checked the vale that separated us from God was torn in two from top to bottom when Christ died. I wonder what that was all about? Not only that, but Im absolutely certain that I will never pray to any one outside of the trinity no matter how much I revere, respect or admire them. Oh by the way, due tell me where all I am wrong.
Report Post »WatchingObama
Posted on January 24, 2012 at 11:47am@angelcat
I was a practicing Catholic for 23 years. And I can tell you first hand that praying to Mary is viewed as EQUAL to praying to God.
“Hail Mary full of grace; the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and bleesed is thy fruit of thy womb Jesus. Holy Mary mother of God Pray for our sinners now and at the hour of our death, Amen.”
Mary was born a sinner like you and I. Yes, God chose her to bring Jesus to the world. But the ONLY person that interceeds for mankind is Jesus. (Hebrews 7:25)
If you want an eye opening experience concerning the Christian Church and things that are done in them read the book, “Pagan Christianity”, by Frank Viola. Follow this link —>
http://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Christianity-Exploring-Church-Practices/dp/141431485X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327423306&sr=1-1
A good portion of what is done and the structures that are in place in the Christian Church are pagan based. This, I believe, is why there hasn’t been much power or influence in the world or demonstrations of Gods glory due to man prefering to do things his own way. (Praying to Mary etc.)
Report Post »The good news is things are about to change BIG TIME in churches across the globe – specifically in the West.
paulppp2008
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:55amI like the video. It was well made, cool music, and a good response to the hate religion video. Do you guys realize that the Catholic church has the biggest relief program around the world? Do you realize they have missionaries all around world? For those who don’t like religion, do you realize that your very church has religion whether protestant, Budist or whatever…because you need a structure…? Do you realize that our current pope, Benedict XVI, wrote his first book on “God is Love” where he repeated over and over again that we are called to have a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus? Do you realize the Church is eklesia in Greek and means community – while Catholic – means universal? Jesus formed a universal community that we refer to as the Catholic Church. Do you realize that our relief program welcomes everyone not matter what religion they are…or whether they believe in God or not? Do you know that Pope John Paul II has called for a new evangelization that concentrates on the already baptized one? Believe me, in the Catholic Church, we are well aware of the hypocrisy among some members and even non-practicing members. This is the situation in every other church by the way. The crisis is world-wide. Instead hating each other, we need to unite! One Church; One Body! His Body!
Report Post »Deborah
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 11:33amThank you, PAULPPP2008. I’m convinced most folks who have posted missed the whole message of the video, or perhaps didn’t watch it at all. I swear, some “Christians” would refute anything a Catholic said, even if he or she said, “Jesus is Lord.”
Report Post »Sugabee
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 12:13pmAwesome post, PPP!! Some choose to believe half-truths about the Church, which is a work of the devil. The Church does NOT teach us to “worship” Mary – she is honored because she is the mother of our Savior!! The Rosary is a meditative prayer whose words are taken DIRECTLY from the Bible!! Yes, the Church has made mistakes – she is managed by falliable human beings, but Jesus said He would never leave us or forsake us. And, when Jesus commands us in John 6:27-69, why is it that the Catholic Church (aside from the Orthodox) is the only Church that takes this commandment literally???
Report Post »hi
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:53amI love it! One should not to attempt to form an opinion about Jesus and His church unless he has read the Bible. I doubt the first rapper read the Bible.
Report Post »LeeroyJenkins
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:09amWhen did the bible say that religion is the way? If religion is the way which religion? Is one religion right and one wrong?. Cannot quite figure out if the religion that tells me to kiss snakes is right or the one that tells me to worship Jesus’ mother as well. Pretty hard to figure out since Jesus never said which religion is right and religion is the cause of so much death in history. I agree with the sentiment love people honor Jesus or God in your own way and you should be golden.
Report Post »Luke21
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:26amFr. Pontifex continues, … maintains that religion is needed to set parameters for those who worship Christ.
“… there’s gonna be some boundaries, regulations and some rules,” Fr. Pontifex raps.
YET the WORD OF GOD says this about Religion & men’s traditions:
Pure and UNDEFILED RELIGION before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. (James 1:27)
Then the [PRIESTS] from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? …” [JESUS] ANSWERED them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? … Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: ‘THESE PEOPLE DRAW NEAR TO ME WITH THEIR MOUTH, AND HONOR ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME. AND IN VAIN THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.’ ” (Matthew 15:1-9, Mark 7)
When JESUS had called all the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “HEAR ME, everyone, and understand: There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!” (Mark 7:14-16)
Report Post »DRed
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:19amAs a Pastor I can tell you that the first rapper knows the Bible very well! Christianity is to be a lifestyle, lived from the inside out. Listen to his interviews and you will see. The priest is mistaking religion for the Church, which is the Body of Christ (the PEOPLE).
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 12:05pm@DRED – Chrstianity is to be a “lifestyle”? Good grief! Your words belie your supposed true faith, and show forth a more modernist slant….and probably one you’re not even aware of. I find so many who hold similar views to be no different than the anti-establishment hippies of yesteryear. But because you say you’re for Jesus and not the church, you’re blinded by your own idolatry of self.
Report Post »alina.bolero
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:52amIn other words … don’t make your own opinion about Jesus. Join the collective and do and believe what WE say about Him!
Report Post »straighttalk4u
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:18amNo, not at all. You learn of Him for yourself with His people who are like minded and willing to support you. But from your sarcasm I doubt you have any desire for that. I hope you do and find great success in doing so.
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:28amYou’re free to your opinions, but not all opinions are worthy of consideration. God makes covenant with a people, and through those people makes himself known. So it’s unlikely that individual opinions about God matter a hill of beans.
I’m sure this probably offends your idolatrous view of self, but no matter. I would bet your personal opinions are probably buffoonery!
Report Post »mommaLION
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:50amWOW! That is great! Loved Bethke’s too! Both of them make great points. I personally think there is a reason why there are four gospels – because not one person has the entire version of who Jesus is. If we are the Body of Christ, we each must add our puzzle piece to make Him fully known!!
Report Post »garyM
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 10:56amAll four Gospels are in agreement, they just give different accounts within the words the Holy Spirit gave the Apostles! The is no disagreement in the 4 Gospels!
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:42amThats right Blaze, re-run all the religious stories to feed your up-tight christians red meat. This site seems to want to divide the conservatives with this kind of crap. Give a few hours and everyone will be flogging each other over who Jesus is, what the church is, who started what and how I hate because you don’t believe like I do. It is disgraceful and we should not allow it. So, it that spirit I refuse to take part in any christian bashing or idiot enlightenment on this topic, this time.
Report Post »mllyjul
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:45amAfter reading your post I‘m wondering if you aren’t the “uptight” one.
Report Post »martymart
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:22amsounds like someone has a little Jihad going on Mchappy meal
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 6:17pmmllyjul
Well, eight hours later, I‘ve taken the time to read all the post and I don’t think I was too far off. Maybe I should have said confused instead up tight.
@martymart
Report Post »machappy meal…….I like it.
bcrowell
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:41amThis is fantastic. Hey folks, look, we have an actual public debate about “how” to follow Jesus with the given being that we all should do so. This is a wonderful occurrence… oh, and the Father is spot on.. in my opinion. :)
Report Post »namron019
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 11:36amMatthew 23:1
Report Post »1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples,2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat,3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you—but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice.4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear,t and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long,6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbit by others.8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.t 9 And CALL NO MAN YOUR FATHER ON EARTH, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.11 The greatest among you shall be your servant.12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Sugabee
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 1:26pmSo, do you call your own dad “father”? Do you refer to the people who educated you “teachers”? Jesus was talking about their hypocricies, not that you should NEVER refer to someone as your father. Puleez.
Report Post »angelcat
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:39amGreat rebuttal! I didn’t know it was possible to have rap without profanity, trashing women, and that actually makes sense. Good job, Father!
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:45amI agree! And he was theologically sound as far as that goes, I agree with most that he said. It is simply his premise that I disagree with. But I can respect his position as I am sure he respects mine. We can argue in love as brothers in Christ.
Report Post »angelcat
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:23amTrolltrainer, I am heartened by the fact there are those who can still respectfully disagree. I would never say hateful things about someone else’s relgion, yet I hear vile, hateful things about Catholicism and read similar comments frequently – usually based on incorrect facts. Thank you for being a REAL Christian.
Report Post »ZAP
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:38amThe church is spiritual,The Kingdom of God is spiritual,the sealing of the Holy Spirit which saves you is spiritual.Man-made religion in a man-made church is just man-made business.By the way.do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
Report Post »Biddle
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:08amAMEN! the message is there, but the garments, sacraments and the “mystery religion” gotta go!!! The springs we drink from are infected with wormwood and if we arent aware of that then we are easily deceived by superstition.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:36amChurch… is a “calling out”… for those who want to be Taught & Educated. Of course, you do not need this… if you have a direct Pipe Line to GOD or are a Genius who invents his own Creed!
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 8:33amThe good friar is wrong but I love how he expressed his side.
Jesus did not start the church. The Holy Spirit did…on Pentecost. But it
is understandable why Catholics need to reach for apostolic succession.
Of course this post, and this article, are going to degenerate into just another religious argument. Maybe that is good, maybe someone will learn something. Probably not though, it will just be a shouting match.
Report Post »Biddle
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 9:09amYes it will. Its pride of the person that can not be subdued to the point of learning.
Report Post »jabbott514
Posted on January 23, 2012 at 12:22pmI appreciate your views, and your ability to argue a point without being hateful…but, in the interest of clarification…we Catholics believe that the basis of His church, the Holy Eucharist, was instituted on Holy Thursday, when He took the bread, broke it and gave it to His diciples and said “Do This In Memory Of Me”, as He did with the Chalice of the wine, which became His blood, and told them to “do this in remembrance of Me.” They were gathered again int he upper room with the Blessed Virgin Mary, and all received the Holy Spirit, as tongues of fire, and set off to spread His word to the world, UNIVERSALLY…universal, as in Catholic.
Report Post »As Bishop Sheen said, there are maybe 100 people in the world who hate the Catholic Church…there are millions of people who hate what they percieve the Catholic Church to be.