TN Sparks First Amendment Debate Over Bills Aimed at Increasing Faith & Prayer in Public Schools
- Posted on March 28, 2012 at 8:53am by
Billy Hallowell
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Prayer in public schools continues to be a highly-debated issue in states across America. In Tennessee, a new proposal that would pave the way for more faith activities in public schools is heading to the state’s House floor for a vote.
In a move that will surely anger church-state separatists, the bill would allow for rules governing prayer in public schools to be amended, while affording districts the right to allow students to meet and discuss faith and religion more freely before school events.
The Chatanooga Times Free Press describes the bill in detail:
Local school boards would be required to let select students voluntarily express their “religious viewpoints,” be they Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan or atheist, at football games, school assemblies and graduation ceremonies under a bill moving in the House.
The “Religious Viewpoints Antidiscrimination Act” passed on the House Education Committee on Tuesday on a voice vote after a motion to put it in summer study was tabled.
Rep. Andy Holt, R-Dresden, the bill’s sponsor, said his legislation is needed to protect students. If anyone has issues with the bill, Holt said, “then you’re expressing your problem with the First Amendment and not with my bill.”
Proponents claim that the law would assist in protecting schools when religious events and discussions are held on their premises. Additionally, it would purportedly protect students who take part in various faith activities. Opponents like the American Civil Liberties Union, though, say that the law is unneeded and that the First Amendment does more than enough to address students’ needs. The Free Press continues:
The bill requires school boards to provide a method, based on “neutral criteria,” for the selection of student speakers at school events and graduation ceremonies. School systems would also must adopt a policy regarding a limited public forum and voluntary student expression of religious viewpoints.
Only students in the highest two grade levels of the school and who also are a student council officer, football team captain, top class officer or other position of honor established by local schools “based on neutral criteria” would be eligible to use the limited public forum.
If the bill becomes law, it would open the door to all faiths — not just Christianity — to more openly exercise their rights and beliefs on school campuses. This is a concern for those opposed to its implementation.
“I do believe that a student or any citizen should have the right to express their religious viewpoint — and not be discriminated against,” said Republican Rep. Andy Holt.
On Monday, lawmakers voted in favor of the bill and it is now headed to the House floor for a vote. The Senate has not yet taken up the proposal, although another has been passed by both the House and the Senate that would allow teachers and other school employees to participate in prayer groups and religious activities. These activities can be on school grounds, but they must be initiated by the students and not the employees.
The Associated Press adds:
Sponsors of the bill brought it in part to support “See You at the Pole” gatherings, where students and their parents gather at school flag poles to pray.
The measure was approved 29-1. The companion bill unanimously passed the House 93-0 earlier this month. Before it can go to the governor, the measure must go back to the House to approve an amendment that was added.
The legislation allows school personnel to participate in such activities as long as they don’t carry into the classroom or conflict with the assignments of the participant.
The activities also must be student-initiated and be held before or after school. The amendment clarifies that teachers can attend events in cases where a school may rent out its facilities to a church or faith-based organization.
The debate over these contentious bills comes as numerous issues surrounding religion in public venues have unfolded in Tennessee. Recently, a principal resigned after allegations that she discussed God and made negative comments about gay students. In anther related case, a different school in the state refused to run high school student Krystal Myers’ column about her atheistic views and student-led prayer at yet another public school landed some coaches in hot water.
It seems that faith and religious expression are at the center of much of Tennessee’s contemporary political discussion. Both proposals seem aimed at increasing free speech rights of students and employees, but neither comes without a fair share of controversy and resistance.
(H/T: NewsChannel5.com)
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PeaceAndHarmony
Posted on March 29, 2012 at 4:21pmI am sick of religious extremists shoving their religion down our throats.
Report Post »Separation of church and state!
Don‘t pray in my school and I won’t think in your church.
Those who are trying to impose their bronze-age notions of fear and ignorance on our nation’s public schools are anti-American and should move to another country if they don’t like following the Constitution.
colt1860
Posted on March 29, 2012 at 10:25pmHow about we keep the Government out of schools! That’s what the founding fathers did. It’s these liberal, Marxist, communist radicals that have made education the fourth branch of the US.
Report Post »wvernon1981
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:44pmIf we keep the government out of schools, who is to ensure children receive a proper education?
Report Post »bfranklin63032
Posted on March 29, 2012 at 3:07pmAs Reagan once quipped, “The problem is not conservatives versus liberals, it’s liberals versus AMERICANS.”
Report Post »Sniper48
Posted on March 29, 2012 at 12:28amFinally, Christians are speaking up and acting before they are all wiped off the face of the earth by Muslims like Obama, or political correctness.
Report Post »gaittec
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 5:08pm“LUMBAR SPINE
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 1:06pm
You know what the real problem is…? So-called Christians like these people in Tennessee pushing for school prayer can’t pray or otherwise speak with God unless they make a big public production out of it. Anyone can pray wherever they want…at school, at work, in a movie, at the grocery, or wherever you want to pray. The problem is with these so-called Christians who want to always make it a public spectacle. Didn’t Jesus say something about people like that?”
Yeah, he said “Go teach all nations.”
Report Post »Arcangel Michael
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 3:00pmJesus, I trust in You
http://thedivinemercy.org/message/devotions/chaplethistory.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AySdEJx50Z0&feature=related
Report Post »Seagal45
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 2:08pmIt’s called the Constitution dummies; they already have the right, the problem is they‘ve let the PC police and a small group of people tell them it’s not okay for so long they gave up. More power to them, if it takes some sort of law on top of what the Constitution already allows then good. As a tax payer I am opposed to my money going to the public school system, a system that teaches our children that “Mother Earth” should be worshipped above anything else and does not teach how to think outside the box or to think period.
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 2:17pmYou realize that organized religion has worked in opposition to “thinking outside the box” throughout history right?
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 8:30pm@JOE then maybe you should start with the Abrahamic books of Islam being taught in a Virginia highschool and everywhere they allow muslims to pray at school..Don’t cha think? Opps..that might be a little dangerous there Joe.
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 1:39pmReligion is a mental disorder, and as a taxpaying citizen, I reject anti-education being promoted in public schools.
There is no reason my child should be suggested to voodoo, superstition, chanting, and ritual in the form of adherance to some strange millenia-old practices of worship.
Now if the Bible is presented as fiction, similar to the way Greek mythology is taught, I’m all for it. I think the fictional stories of our ancient ancestors are important reminders of how far we’ve come, and how well we understand the universe in comparison. I think it is interesting to look at how uneducated people described the world around them.
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 1:41pm2nd paragraph: “.. no reason my child should be SUBJECTED* to.. “
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 4:22pmSamuel Adams wrote a letter on October 4, 1790 to his cousin John Adams, who was vice president of the United States: “Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age, by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, of inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity and universal philanthropy, and in subordination to these great principles, the love of their country; of instructing them in the art of self-government… in short, of leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system. Knowledge apart from God and His truth is little better than complete ignorance, because the most important aspect of education is the imbuing of moral principles. All education is religious – it imparts a basic set of principles and ideals, a worldview. How the youth are educated today will determine the course a nation takes in the future.”
“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.” US Northwest Ordinance, July 13, 1787
Report Post »Active8
Posted on March 29, 2012 at 1:28pmOf all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens.
Report Post »—George Washington’s Farewell Address… So GW had a “mental disorder”? Shoot, I’ll take his mental disorder over fools like Hitler and Marx.
Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 1:06pmYou know what the real problem is…? So-called Christians like these people in Tennessee pushing for school prayer can’t pray or otherwise speak with God unless they make a big public production out of it. Anyone can pray wherever they want…at school, at work, in a movie, at the grocery, or wherever you want to pray. The problem is with these so-called Christians who want to always make it a public spectacle. Didn’t Jesus say something about people like that?
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 5:11pmThe Government should just stay out of schools, private or public. PERIOD. That’s the ONLY legitimate argument. Everything else is based on the false notion that the US Constitution confers to the Legislative, Executive and Judicial branches of the federal Government power to govern or manage the education of OUR children. I don’t want Pelosi or Santorum having a say in anything regarding the education of my child (I don’t have a child, but if I did). Let localities, churches, communities, individual citizens, towns, associations, private institutions, and so forth, worry about education. Heck, the US can barely manage the Post Office, which IS a Constitutional Power.
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 5:51pm@Colt1860
Report Post »“Government should get out of schools, private or public. PERIOD”
Funny man! You remind me of that guy I saw at a Tea Party rally holding a sign that read “get your government hands off my medicare”. if Government got out of public schools, they wouldn’t be so public, would they?
colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 6:36pm@SoNick The word public does not solely refer to things pertaining to the Government. Heck, Panera Bread offers PUBLIC access to their Wifi network. An event I went to recently, had PUBLIC restrooms. The other day I read a book that was in the PUBLIC domain. The other day, I was walking out in PUBLIC. See what I mean? The other day I went to Chick-fil-a, which is open to the PUBLIC.
The word public may refer to things from or of the Government, but it is not exclusive to Government.
2. Common to many; current or circulated among people of all classes; general; as public report; public scandal.
3. Open; notorious; exposed to all persons without restriction.
4. Regarding the community; directed to the interest of a nation, state or community; as public spirit; public mindedness; opposed to private or selfish.
5. Open for general entertainment; as a public house.
6. Open to common use; as a public road.
7. In general, public expresses something common to mankind at large, to a nation, state, city or town, and is opposed to private, which denotes what belongs to an individual, to a family, to a company or corporation.
In public, in open view; before the people at large; not in private or secrecy.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 7:10pm‘Government’ run and mandated schools are unconstitutional. How in the world, have Americans even come to accept the notion that the Government can dictate, determine, and enforce what our children must learn, practice, accept, and obey within education?
EDUCA’TION, n. [L. educatio.] The bringing up, as of a child, instruction; formation of manners. Education comprehends all that series of instruction and discipline which is intended to enlighten the understanding, correct the temper, and form the manners and habits of youth, and fit them for usefulness in their future stations. To give children a good education in manners, arts and science, is important; to give them a religious education is indispensable; and an immense responsibility rests on parents and guardians who neglect these duties.
Report Post »Robert999
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:19pmWhy would schools or the state government want to encourage Muslim, Wiccan, or any other pagan prayers in schools? The only prayers that should be allowed are Christian prayers. America is a Christian nation.
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:25pmYea…right on! Gooobadalalaltounkilleme…bliderotesdarbflam! Let’s teach public school kids to speak in tongues! Noomasertioklingeramerdammmmmmeron…teeeponatararatingatoon! And snake handling, too…!
Report Post »A Hoosier Says
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 1:10pmUh, have you ever read the 1st amendment?
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 2:35pmYou have a seriously twisted understanding of the first amendment. What part of “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” don’t you understand?
Report Post »vaman
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 3:28pmI want Satanism recognized or anything else I call a religion. If the rule applies to one religion it applies to them all or anything random someone makes up. This is not a christian nation, so if you preach one thing, then preach them all. Or do what is right and preach nothing.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 4:27pm“The name of American, which belongs to you in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of patriotism more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion, manners, habits, and political principles. You have in a common cause fought and triumphed together; the independence and liberty you possess are the work of joint counsels, and joint efforts of common dangers, sufferings, and successes… Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 4:29pmWashington’s Farewell Address 1796 http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 4:44pm@Robert999 Amen.
Washington said, “With slight shades of difference, you have the SAME RELIGION, manners, habits, and political principles.”
At the time of the founding, America was 98% Protestant Christian, 1% Roman Catholic, and less than 1% Theist or Jewish. The first clause in the first amendment is NOT about religion, it is about ESTABLISHMENTS of Religion, e.g. ecclesiastical institutions. For Pete’s sake, George Washington took his CONSTITUTIONAL OATH with his hand on the Holy Bible, and proceeded his Oath with “So help me God”. The first amendment does not prohibit religion or religious content, it prohibits the Government from creating, running, and governing any type of Church, Congregation, or Organized Religion.
Fisher Ames, known as the primary author of the First Amendment, was a publicist and a statesman, judge and congressman from Massachusetts (1791-1797).
On September 20, 1789, Fisher Ames was quoted in Paladian Magazine, giving his view of American education:
“We have a dangerous trend beginning to take place in our education. We’re starting to put more and more textbooks into our schools. We’ve become accustomed of late of putting little books into the hands of children, containing fables and moral lessons. We’re spending less time in the classroom on the Bible, which should be the principal text in our schools. The Bible states these great moral lessons better than any other man-made book.”
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:04pmI think Friday morning public school assemblies should include baptisms…and once a month, casting out demons.
Report Post »hi
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:16pmOr they could chant “Mmm, mmm, mmm…Barack Hussein Obama!”
Report Post »Quixotic-911
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:29amYes, we should amend the constitution. Freedom of religion except Islamo-fascism. Christianity=GOOD Islam= Evil.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:41amReally? You REALLY want that? If so then you are neither American OR Christian!
Report Post »thibx
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:06amGOD expects more out of a son than someone who has no relationship with him.
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:33amI think Tennessee should also teach snake handling and speaking in tongues in their public schools…if America is a Christian nation it’s only fair to include every wingnut Christian religious practice.
Report Post »possom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:32amHell I’m an athiest and even I think this is a good idea, kids nowadays have the moral‘s of a bunch of gangsta allycat’s!
Report Post »YAHSHUARULES
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:51amThe Founders knew that the only people suitable to our Republic were a biblically educated grounded in Judeo/Christian values people regardless of their religion or lack thereof. There is no hope for America without morality and morality is grounded in the word of God. I went to “Monumental” last night. I have not set foot in a movie theater for years. What was on the screen was connecting with everyone there, Things I had learned in the last few years thanks to Glenn Beck and David Barton others were hearing for the first time, like the fact that the Congress of the United States of America paid for and distributed bibles – so much for the lie of separation of church and state. Bibles were bought and paid for by congress. Let that sink in. Audible gasps and wow’s went through the place. Anyone who cares about this country and the direction it is going needs to see this movie. There is no fixing the economy without fixing the foundation, the bedrock on which this country was founded. I challenge all you who are especially antagonistic to the idea of this being ONE NATION UNDER GOD, go see the movie and then ask yourselves what you disagree with. You might be suprised.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/kirk-cameron-tells-of-gods-monumental-role-in-americas-founding-72012/http://www.monumentalmovie.com/
Report Post »YAHSHUARULES
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:41pmThe links were not copied correctly sorry about that. I hate that…
Report Post »http://www.christianpost.com/news/kirk-cameron-tells-of-gods-monumental-role-in-americas-founding-72012/
http://www.monumentalmovie.com/
Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:46pmLOL…yea, if Kirk Cameron says so then it’s got to be true.
BTW, whi is Kirk Cameron…?
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:46amIf these parents want their children to pray in school let them spend their own money and send their kids to private, Christian schools…simple as that. Everybody pays to support public schools…not just religious extremists with school-age kids. What if a public school in a part of town heavily populated with Muslims wanted to initiate Muslim prayer and teachings as part of their school day…how would you reaspond to that? What about Mormons…?
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:49amI wonder how much federal aid these public schools in Tennessee get…
Report Post »hi
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:02amHow about everyone just pay for their own schools especially the liberals? Then our property taxes would approach zero. The lib schools can teach “How to Mooch off of Society, Lie, Steal, and Cheat.”
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:05amHI…yea, and the right wing schools can teach how to live in the nineteenth century. And, of course, right wing schools would be cheaper since you don’t need any textbooks other than the Bible.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:07amThe Constitution and the Bill of Rights are meant to constrain the government not the citizens. I do not leave my beliefs at the door obefore entering a school or the state house. The majority of people do support the prayer and pleage and other statements of faith in the public.
So how are the rights of the minority being infringed upon by believers. Unlike the minority, we are not forcing you to believe what we believe. however, following the monority does in fact attempt to force us to dis-believe as they do.
Those who do not believe are still free to dis-believe. However, bowing to the minority, does in fact infringe upon the right of the majority to speak and to display.
Those who scream about “tolerance” seem to have long ago forgotten the meaning of the word. For tolerance means we put up with you and your ideas – not agreement with them. For the “tolerance police” they do not want to “put up with us” but to silence us and force us to agere with them. Clue – that is not “tolerance” No one has to be forced to “tolerate that which one believes, the tolerance comes with those who are in disagreement – as in agree to disagree”
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:11amKAYDEEBEAU…so, in other words, majority rules in America? And if a majority of Americans wanted to teach science from the Bible in schools you are okay with that? And if the majority wanted to return to slavery, or to disenfranchise women, you’re okay with that?
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:39amWhen one understand the personal responsibility to ourselves and each other –
The most important right is life – without life there is no need for liberty or the ability to persue happiness
2nd is liberty for with out life and liberty we cannot persue hapiness.
The pursuit of hapiness is subordinate to the other 2. Your pursuit of happiness cannot deprive me of my life or my liberty.
So following that model – slavery would never be accepted anywhere because it deprives one of liberty.
However, teaching the Bible violates nothing – non-believers have the right to coninue to not believe – so no infringement on liberty, no one is being killed by teaching the bible – so no one is losing his life. no one is unable to persue happiness by bieng taught the Bible – (see reference to liberty of belief).
If a community majority feel such a way, those who disagree and are the minority are free to vote with their feet by leaving to a community whose beliefs more closely follow his own
It seems that only in cases regarding religion or morals that the generally accepted notion of majority rules goes out the window and we are then supposed to be ruled by the minority. That doesn’t even stand the test of any reason of thought.
Our ancestors came here to get out from under the rule of a tyrannical minority. So now all of a sudden, in regards to religion and morals we are supposed to again subjugate ourselves to the tyranny of a minority?
I think not
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:45amTeaching the Bible in tax-funded public schools most certainly does violate the Constitution in that the gvernment is funding religious practices. That’s pretty basic Constitutional law…
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:03am“However, teaching the Bible violates nothing”
Wrong it violates the 1st Amendment. It violates the law and if you respect the Constitution you would oppose such violations of it.
Report Post »John 336
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:17amDoes that mean I won’t have to pay taxes towards the public school if I put my kids in a private school because the public school has removed my right to freedom of religion in that school. All of you supposed “experts” on the constitution attempt to use the constitution to say something it doesn’t say. This law doesn’t establish a religion. In fact, it appears to be VERY constitutional becasue it allows kids to exercise their right to religion EVEN IN SCHOOL.
You also say …”Teaching the Bible in tax-funded public schools most certainly does violate the Constitution in that the gvernment is funding religious practices. That’s pretty basic Constitutional law…” How is that un-constitutional if no law has been established. If that is unconstitutional then teaching evolution to a Christian kid should also be unconstitutional becasue it takes more faith to be an atheist/evolutionist than it does to be a Christian. If the government were to actually establish a law that only the Bible/Chrisitanity would be taught and not allow for other faiths to be exercised and expressed … then you have a violation of the Constitution. But no violation exists before the establishment of a law.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:26am“If that is unconstitutional then teaching evolution to a Christian kid should also be unconstitutional becasue it takes more faith to be an atheist/evolutionist than it does to be a Christian.”
Evolution is a SCIENTIFIC THEORY not some ancient myth of nomadic goat herders. The fact that ignorant bible thumpers don’t believe in science does not change anything.
The US Supreme Court has been clear any actions of State agents or agencies promoting religion can be found to be a violation of the 1st Amendment.
Report Post »John 336
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:55amEncino … a “theory” is just that … theory. There is as much science which disproves evolution as there is which supposedly proves evolution. So …let’s remove your comment that about ancient myth … let’s forget about goat herders and Bible thumpers. If you want to stand on science … let’s stand on science. Please explain irreducible complexity? Please explain how biochemical systems could evolve when all of the elements of that system must be present, in tact and functioning properly in order live. It has been scientifically observed that if you alter or remove any part of a cell the cell dies. I’m interested in hearing YOUR explanation … considering that many of the world’s scientists have no explanations themselves. Rather, they simply say “trust us … we are the scientists … you are not. We are educated … you are not. You just need to believe us when we tell you that you have evolved.”
I’m not buying it …call me names … call me an idiot … call me whatever you want to call me. The simply truth is … you have put your faith in a THEORY … I have put my faith in God.
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:01pmJOHN…you are aware, aren’t you that a scientific “theory” is not the same as “I think the Mafia played a hand in JFK’s assassination…”
Report Post »hi
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:14pmLumber Spine
Report Post »Catholic and Jesuit educated students have higher test scores than kids in public schools.
Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:22pmHI…all my kids went to Catholic schools, one a Jesuit school. I did too. But these are PRIVATE schools…just for your information. In my case, the religious part didn’t take…but I still got a good education otherwise.
Report Post »John 336
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:23pmLumbar Spine … you are aware that you cannot get something from nothing. Please explain science’s “proof” as to how and where the first cell came about. Please show me science’s “test” and abilitiy to reproduce … anything…from nothing.
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:32pmJOHN…from a scientific standpoint I am satisfied with the big bang “theory” as a scientific explanation for the origin of the universe and everything in it, as are practically all scientists. What you seem to be incapable of grasping is the difference between science and religion. The is no scientific basis for your religious “theories” of the origins of the universe. The belief that an invisible man in the sky created the universe in six days ain’t science…it’s religion.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:36pmNo one is proposing teaching the Bible here, but allowing students of all faith the ability to practice their beliefs wherever they may be; work, school, home, outside, football game, baseball game. You don’t have to participate. You as an atheist can hold your own little meeting and conduct non-prayers. Frankly, though I think the Bible should be studied in school. Until you hear both sides of a story, you will remain ignorant. Come on you atheist, what are you afraid of?
However, you have no problem when a school teaches about Islam? Explain that you hypocrites.
You might want to go read the 1st Amendment again. It say that the government CAN”T pass any laws establishing a STATE religion (a religion that everyone has to obey and follow even you atheist or Muslims) or prohibit the free EXERCISE of religion. In other words the government can’t stop me from practicing my religion. Thus, the 1st Amendment gives me the right to read the Bible or say a prayer no matter where I am. I don’t care if you feel excluded, you made that choice by not believing in God or the Bible. I did not force you NOT to believe, nor am I forcing you to believe.
The problem you have is when someone has different beliefs than you, you can’t handle it and want to restrict those rights. Who died and appointed you all King? Oh wait, the Constitution DOES prohibits Kings. So no matter how much you want it you will never be KING.
Report Post »John 336
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 1:52pmLumbar Spine … there is that word “theory” again. I’m not talking about religion. I simply want to know where the energy, gases and matter … which “exploded” … thus creating the universe …came from. Have they always existed? Science actually shows that the universe (and the elements that make up the universe) has not always existed becasue the universe is still expanding. My point still remains… you say there is a difference between religion and science but we are both putting our faith in something. I have put my faith in God … you have put your faith in two theories which have never been observed by anyone.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 4:35pmThe federal Government dictating and controlling almost every aspect of public education and public schools is itself unconstitutional. Federally run, sponsored and funded Government public schools is unconstitutional. Having public schools run, governed, and controlled by the Government wherein children of private citizens are forced to attend is COMMUNIST. Public education is power left to the States or the people therein.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 4:36pmThere you go again Luke, proving you do not know wha thte word theory means.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 4:47pmPublic education is a power reserved to the States or the people therein.
Report Post »SoupSandwich
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:32amState’s Rights! And it does appear to be multi culti to boot to shut the over flowing pieholes of the left.
Report Post »UnreconstructedLibertarian
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:59amTennessee strikes another blow for State’s Rights
Hot off the Press:
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-03/D9TOTPA80.htm
We’re taking on the rediculous Farm Labor Regs too!
There are times I abosoutely love my State – today is one of them.
What most people don’t know is at the beginning of the current administration, Gov Haslam had all Dept. Commissioners submit 2 budgets: one with a 20% reduction in Fed money, and another with ZERO Fed money. Tennessee is getting itself lined up to cut off the Federal teat. Much to the credit of our former Democrat Governor, Bredesen, this budget process of making plans for zero Federal funding was initiated under him and being carried forward by Republican Haslam.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:21am1st Amendment trumps State’s Rights. The States can not violate the Establishment Clause. (the 14th Amendment incorporates the Bill of Rights to the States).
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:45am@ encinomoron – have you actually read the 10th amendment, or the 9th or the rest of the Constitution at all ?- it is quite evident from the “brilliance of the totality of your comments ” that you have not.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:01am14th Amendment incorporates the Bill of Rights. Have you read anything other than the BS Beck has you read. The New York Times case, the leading 1st Amendment, freedom of the Press Case, was based on, not a Federal issue or law, but came out of State law. The reason States can not infringe upon the freedom of the press or your right ot free speech is because the 14th Amendment incorporates those protections to the States. kaydeebeau, Shut the Hell up until you actually have something intelligent to say.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:13am@ encinomoron – Actually, I get my information from the Federalist Papers, the Catechism of the Constitution and other historical writings from the founders. If you actually understood the role of the courst as originally intended you would know that contrary to popular opinion, the supreme court (or any other court for that matter) is not the final arbiter on constitutionality.
the court is not a co-equal branch and was intended to be subordinate to the other 2 branches of geovernment. Try reading the list of greivances listed in the Declaration of Independence, then as is so amazing, how those are addressed in the constitution and then look up the Federalist paper that supports both.
If you could even make an attempt at a reasoned argument, rather than little blurbs you have borrowed from others and the eventual school yard antics of a 3rd grade name caller, I might be influenced “to shut the hell up” which by the way is commonly known by all but the brain dead – microencephalic liberals to mean – “I don‘t have the mental ability to keep up with your debate so I’ll take my toys and go home”
Until then – not so much
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:35am@kaydeebeau
So you can repeat the opinions of a fraud like Barton. You do realize that the Federalist Papers do not have the force of law, while the 200+ years of Supreme Court opinions do. Your opinion is not supported by reality, it is not supported by the volumns of Supreme Court opinions and the response of the other co-equal branches of government.
As much as Barton hates to admit it, Marbury v. Madison is the law of the land and the foundation for America’s jurispurdence. No Court or Congress or President has overturned this decision from the Marshal Court.
Report Post »2Fedup
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:46amWell played katybeau.
Report Post »UnreconstructedLibertarian
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:46amEncinom,
I appreciate you pointing out the real intent of the Reconstructionist 14th amendment was not to establish citizenship for newly freed slaves – but to destroy all Constitutional precedent before 1868. It effectively did just that – destroyed the Constitution of our founding.
Prior to 1868 the SCOTUS interpretation of the 1st Amendment was precisely what the founders intended, and what our nation needs restored in our present day. I find it comicly ironic that modern day Republicans are fighting against something their mythological Lincolnite Radical Republicans instituted after the “Late Unpleasantness”.
Does the Bill of Rights extend to the States under Federal oversight? That’s an implied doctrine, nowhere was it precedent before 1890. If “Incorporation” is truly the case, Mayor Bloomberg‘s gun laws are in violation of the 2’nd Amendment and therefore unconstitutional. In fact, any state or federal gun law is unconstitutional. This 2nd amendment “incorporation” is the most recent, as the McDonald v. Chicago (2010) case was the first to do so.
Application of the “Incorporation Doctrine” has been selectively and gradually imposed during the 20th Century and defended by the 14th Amendment. As Government grew, so did its reach into areas that were considered Unconstitutional by the founders and 100 years of prior precedent.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:32pm@UnreconstructedLibertarian
Its clear the 14th Amendment, among others things was designed to handle the mistake the Founders made when they drafted the Constitution. What good is the Freedom of Speech is a State’s law can infringe upon it. The Constitutio was not drafted in its final form, but allowed to be amended when the need arose. The 14th Amendment addressed the fact that the State were not able to protect the civil rights of their citizens and needed to be policed by the Federal government. You are another one that seems to wish to fight against history and facts. The fact is the 14th Amendment and the Incorporation Doctrine are law and that the 1st Amendment has been fully Incorporated onto the States.
The failure of Reconstruction was that it ended too soon, the South never payed for its treason nor learned its lesson.
Report Post »UnreconstructedLibertarian
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 2:14pmThe intent of the 14th Amendment was to end state’s rights, create the unaccountable central government we have, and remove the citizenship of state into a national citizenship. If the only premise was to protect the civil rights of the freed slaves, the language would have been very simple. To the effect: “All freed slaves and their issue shall be considered full citizens of the states wherein they reside as of the ratification of the 13th Amendment, enjoying the freedoms and protections of the several citizens of the same State”.
Reconstruction didn’t fail in its real purpose, it has never ended. Its purpose was to “Fundamentally Transform America” into a Mercantilist/Socialist regime – it did just that and continues. The fallacy with your interpretation is that civil rights was not its goal, just its means. No different than any other ploy of the type we’ve seen throughout our history that is ultimately used to infringe upon the most basic freedoms in the Constitution. I would argue that if a State cannot protect the freedoms of its people against the Federal Government, then no freedom is truly safe.
The Radical politicians of the age were very cunning in doing their damage and transferring the consequences to the blacks who puppeted their ploy. We’re seeing the exact same drama unfold in real-time. Creating racists on both sides of the equation.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 4:35pm@UnreconstructedLibertarian
The Civil War proved the danger of States Rights and the fact that the Bill of Rights is meaningless if the States have a license to violate it. The majority of your rant is not factual, but a litany of a paranoid conspiracy theorist’s take on history, I wouldn’t be surprised to discover you refer to the Civil War as the War of Northern Aggression. The 14th Amendment was not draft, nor have the Supreme Court ruled is such a way as to be construed to usher in some socialist age, that line of logic is a pure creation of reactionary/militia fantasy.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 5:03pm@encinom All your arguments are due to a fundamental change that occurred in the US. Wherefore, technically, your interpretation of the US Constitution is wrong, and only based on radical changes which are very different than what our founding fathers instituted or intended. It was activist judges, in the late 1800‘s and early 1900’s, that transformed, evolved and manipulated the original meaning of the Constitution. Our federal Government today is practically illegitimate. All those rights mentioned in the first ten amendments were protected by the Common Law so prevalent in EVERY state at that time (except Louisiana in some respects). Plus, most states had their own declaration of rights. Also, in that time, a jury was the judge of both Law and Facts, and and basically no final decision issued by the people (jury) could be appealed, except for reasons based on court misconduct. The people were the preservers and protectors of their rights. After the early 1900′s the federal Government fundamentally changed our legal system, and implemented a totally radicalized system of statutes (codification), which virtually flushed most Supreme Court precedents down the toilet.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 6:18pmBAsically, Colt you are just plan wrong. Under English Common Law that governed the Colonies the Judge was the Trier of Law. You are confusing the Scottish tradition, which has was never adopted. Second, Since John Marshall was on the Bench the Court has progressed in this manner. It was John Marshall that established Federalist principals that have served as the bedrock of American Jurispurdence since the early 1800s.
Your whole notion of histor, the rights enjoyed by citizens of States and the role of a jury is just plan wrong, Beck and Barton have destroy your mind. Even today, you can jury verdicts are hard to appeal, usually you need to find misconduct, most appeals are with regards to Judges decisions regarding the law.
Report Post »UnreconstructedLibertarian
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 6:39pmNot factual?
Who in their right mind can’t look at the status of our country and disagree with me?
The immediate Marcantilism of the Radicals laid down the planks of the “manifesto” and gave rise to the monopolies of the late 1800′s. Whomever doesn’t see the exact progression of Socialism from the situation created by the war (as accurately laid out by none other than Marx himself) into the current debacle of socialistic fiscal irresponsibility is getting a great view of the inside of their anus.
You can‘t be serious in the assertion that the SCOTUS decisions of the 20th century hasn’t ushered in the age of Amerian socialism?
Yes, it was a war of Northern agression – not a Civil War.
The “danger” of state’s rights is only a danger to the states themselves. Anything they may do wrong only harms themselves and not the whole. If it truly is a harm, they’ll correct the situation much quicker than if the mistake is made at the Federal level. I’d much rather trust my freedoms to accessible legislators who have the interest of the immediate community in mind than a detached DC legislator who only has their own hide in mind.
While your assertion that the “War of Northern Aggression” demonstrated the fallacy of state’s rights, I’m here witnessing the bankruptcy of our nation and observing that your approach is demonstrating is own fallacy. Your ideal isn’t holding up under the scrutiny of freedom and/or economic viability.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 6:56pmNot so. In early America, the juror could refuse to enforce legislation contrary to the laws of God and the principles found in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. http://rightremedy.org/tracts/26
“The jury has the right to judge both the law as well as the facts in controversy.” John Jay, first Chief Justice of Supreme Court, 1789
“It is presumed that juries are the best judges of facts; it is, on the other hand, presumed that courts are the best judges of law. But still both objects are within your power of decision… you have a right to take it upon yourselves to judge of both, and to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy.” John Jay, first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, State of Georgia vs. Brailsford, 1794
“The Jury has the right to determine both the law and the facts.” Samuel Chase, U.S. Supreme Court Justice, Signer of the Declaration of Independence, 1796
“The jury has an unreviewable and irreversible power… to acquit in disregard of the instructions on the law given by the trial judge.” U.S. Court of Appeals, District of Columbia, 1792
“All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.” Marbury vs. Madison, 1803, 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176
Our current law, as practiced and enforced today, is not being implemented or interpreted as intended and designated by our founders. That much is clear.
LOL I don‘t listen to Beck’s radio show. I very seldom read Berton’s writings. I do my own resea
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 7:34pm@UnreconstructedLibertarian
I understand, you’re upset, your side lost the war and your family had to free their slaves.
So you have created this vast Conspriacy Theory, or did you steal it from Beck and Barton, that is not held up by the facts. There is no march towards socialsim (which wouldn’t be a bad thing). The South continues to be a shinning example as to why State’s Rights need to be limited and policed.
As for Colt, you are talking about Jury Nullification, yes a jury can ignore the law, but that does not make the jury the trier of law, just a group of reactionary Ron Paul supporters that should never of been seated for Jury Duty to begin with. The Judge is and always has been appointed as the trier of law, with Jury Nullification the juury ignores the role of the Judge. The website you reference is not a reliable source on the truth, it is nothing more than an advocacy group to deny others their rights.
Report Post »UnreconstructedLibertarian
Posted on March 29, 2012 at 8:51amWhat is funny about your comment towards me is:
1.) My union ancestors were the big slave owners in my family tree. 16 Union soldiers=170+ slaves. My Confederate ancestors, 16, only one owned slaves(9) and another‘s father owned 2 who were in their 70’s at the time of the war.
2.) Beck and Barton actually agree with you on the subject of the war in question and are arguably as southronophobic as you.
You are right, the south lost the war. It doesn‘t take a genious to hold the point by point objectives of Reconstruction next to the Communist Manifesto’s objectives and see they are the same. Nor does it take a genious to realize those same objectives have been carried nationwide with the last few planks of the manifesto being nailed down in our own time.
The real difference between you and I is that I do not approve of socialism/communism and you wholly embrace it. I realize what was lost in the war, and that what allegedly was won (emancipation) was achievable without war or a destruction of our Constitutional principles.
If I’m bitter about anything it is that I see the past repeating itself. And if conservatives don’t quit defining themselves by social issues – they will lose just like the Confederacy. State’s Rights actually guarantees both of us can be happy where we are, observe the example of each, and have an input on adopting good government example and shunning the bad with greater efficiency.
Report Post »randy
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:24amBoy, for people who do not believe in God, God sure scares the Cr@p out of them.
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:51amNo…we just don’t want you teaching our kids that the Bible is science.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:22amNot afraid of somethign that is not there. Scared of the Right Wings desire to destroy the Constitution and replace it with a theocracy.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:14amI don’t think they teach the Bible is science in prison Lumbar…your kids are safe.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:36amIf the founders were intent on keeping God and the Bible hidden under the proch –
How do explain that the first book sanctioned for printing and distribution to schools by the first US Congress was the Bible?
How do you explain the many references to God in the Declaration of Independence?
How do you explain pastors preaching sermons from the well of congress during congressional sessions?
How do you explain that all State Constitutions make some mention of under God, Divine Providence, the blessings of God?
How do you explain that the State of Tennessee was admitted as a state in 1796 (shortly after Washington left office) – to be admitted the Congress (where many of the framers of the constitution were seated represenatives who determined admission) approve the State Consitution, could have gotten the statement in our State Constitution that a beleif in God is required for holding public office – if the intent was to keep God relegated to the dustbin?
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:54amFine…then where do you draw the line? I think snake handling and speaking in tongues, two Christian practices, should be recognized and allowed, maybe even encouraged, in public schools. And Mormons should also be allowed the use of public school facilities to baptize holocaust victims. Public schools should never be allowed to serve meat on Fridays during Lent, either…and the Pope’s picture should be in every classroom. Let’s also ban all homosexual students from public schools. You okay with all of that…?
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:29pm@ lumbar – false premise. Snake handling is a specific religious practice. The Bible is not a religious practice, it is used by religious individuals to assist in the practice of their respective religious activities. God is not a religion, how one worships is a religious practice. the Founders and other Enlightened thinkers, along with others of us who have been educated under the classically liberal arts, know the distinction.
In most early communties, the school house and the church house were the same building. I would think if the original intent were to prevent them from co-existing in the same space, there would have been separate facilities and never the twain should meet. Since that is not the historical fact, the logical conclusion would be that the original founders and writers had no intention of there being that kind of separation as you seem to want to interject.
There were also state (as in individual states) church’s (and incorporated into state constitutions) based upon the religious preference of the majority of the state’s residents – So again, the framers had every opportunity to speak out against such practices but they did not.
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 12:43pmKAYDEE…prayer is a religious practice, just like speaking in tongues and snake handling. You allow prayer in public schools then you have to allow all religious practices.
BTW, you should learn history from someone other than David Barton and Glenn Beck, both of whom take isolated incidents and anecdotes (many not even verified as true) and extrapolate that into a grand scheme that exists only in their rather paranoid and bizarre minds. There are very good reasons why Glenn Beck and David Barton are regarded as nutjobs in intellectual circles.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 1:11pmAgain – false premise – prayer is talking to God, while certain prayers can be specifically religious, actual prayer is not (refer to previous discussion regarding God is not religious)
And again, I notice that rather than refuting or coming up with a reasoned counter argument – out comes the attack the messeger (Beck & Barton) -tactic as if by so doing I am supposed to think that somehow, the Truth is no longer the Truth because Beck & Barton happen to speak about those topics?
While I do read and follow them, my conclusions are based upon my own study and reasoned, critical thinking.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 1:20pm@kaydeebeau
Barton and Beck are liars and scam artists. They are not selling the Truth, they are selling you their verision of history that is not based in reality. Statements taken out of context, random quotes and wild misinterpetation aare not facts, the evidence that these modern P.T. Barnums know how to sucker their audience.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 7:01pm@encinom Spoken like a true liberal.
These guys can never have a legitimate argument without making assumptions facts, calling folks names, and publishing their bias opinion as truth. What if I said, just because you agreed with or read a paper by Pelosi, all your arguments are false? That would be pathetic. No one is mentioning Barton but you.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 8:39pmcolt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 7:01pm
@encinom Spoken like a true liberal.
These guys can never have a legitimate argument without making assumptions facts, calling folks names, and publishing their bias opinion as truth. What if I said, just because you agreed with or read a paper by Pelosi, all your arguments are false? That would be pathetic. No one is mentioning Barton but you.
Report Post »______________________
When you repeat the disproven arguments of Barton and Beck, you are either an liar or a fool that fell for their scam.
ChildofJesus
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:05amcould be good if they manage it.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:19amWe are getting ready to go after activist judges in TN also – David Barton was just here yesterday – educating about the role of the courts as intended by the Founders. He spoke to our house & senate judiciary committess and also to a group of citizens last night about the 6 Myths of the Courts – fabulous. Want to reign in the Fed – get your State House in order.
Report Post »oldguy49
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:21amsince the gov took god and corporal mpunishment out of schools things have gone to heck………
Report Post »UnreconstructedLibertarian
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:22amKaydeebeau,
” Want to reign in the Fed – get your State House in order.”
All I can say is – Amen!
Something David Barton won’t tell you is that the issue of “activist” Federal Judges and departmental officers was addressed by the CSA Constitution. Article 1-2-5
Report Post »“…any judicial or other Federal officer, resident and acting solely within the limits of any State, may be impeached by a vote of two-thirds of both branches of the Legislature thereof.”
encinom
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:05amDavid Barton is a fraud and scam artist. His views are not based in fact but divined from tea-leaves.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 11:28amI was at the Salt & Light Instutute lin Nashville ast night to hear David Barton!!!!
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:04amTell you what. You don’t want your kids praying in school, hearing a devotional over the P.A. system each morning, go to cuba, russia, wherever. Have your freedom FROM religion and see what kind of life style you have and what kind of crappy kids you raise to follow in you godless footsteps.
“As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” And, the more we know about HIM and know HIM, the better we are and the world is.
You don’t like it? Feel free to leave a.s.a.p.
Report Post »Carl1 Supports Israel
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:03amGrandma, AMEN TO THAT!!!!
Report Post »DesertRose1960
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 10:26amWhen I was growing up in small towns in Oregon in the 1960 and 1970s, we never had devotionals or moments of silence or prayers or invocations and we turned out just fine. I never heard of a “moment of silence” until I started teaching in Virginia, in a county that was named in the “Brown vs. The Board” decision. The United States is not a Christian nation, the Constitution is quite clear about this, in Article Six and the First Amendment. There is no state religion and religious tests are EXPRESSLY forbidden. If you want to have children praying and listening to devotionals before class starts, maybe you want to move to Iran.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 5:21pm@DesertRose1960 There’s a HUGE misunderstanding going around among Conservatives and Liberals. The US is a Government. The Government is not Christian, as in a Christian theocracy or a system as was the Roman Empire or England and it’s Church. However, America, or the US (when referring to the people), is, and was historically, predominantly Protestant Christian. Wherefore, America was a Christian NATION. Nation does NOT imply Government. Nation implies both the people and THEIR government. At no time did the founders of this nation look to the Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, or Native Americans for influence or inspiration.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 5:32pm“In these my confidence will under every difficulty be best placed, next to that which we have all been encouraged to feel in the guardianship and guidance of that Almighty Being whose power regulates the destiny of nations, whose blessings have been so conspicuously dispensed to this rising Republic, and to whom we are bound to address our devout gratitude for the past, as well as our fervent supplications and best hopes for the future.” James Madison Inaugural Address 1809
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 5:34pmThe father of the Constitution, James Madison, said, as President, in a Thanksgiving Day Proclamation (1815):
“No people ought to feel greater obligations to celebrate the goodness of the Great Disposer of Events of the Destiny of Nations than the people of the United States. His kind providence originally conducted them to one of the best portions of the dwelling place allotted for the great family of the human race. He protected and cherished them under all the difficulties and trials to which they were exposed in their early days. Under His fostering care their habits, their sentiments, and their pursuits prepared them for a transition in due time to a state of independence and self-government. In the arduous struggle by which it was attained they were distinguished by multiplied tokens of His benign interposition. During the interval which succeeded He reared them into the strength and endowed them with the resources which have enabled them to assert their national rights, and to enhance their national character in another arduous conflict, which is now so happily terminated by a peace and reconciliation with those who have been our enemies. And to the same Divine Author of Every Good and Perfect Gift we are indebted for all those privileges and advantages, religious as well as civil, which are so richly enjoyed in this favored land.”
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:00amAs long as they allow every religion the same access, I don’t see a problem with it. They are not endorsing a state religion. They will even allow Muslim and atheist groups to express their religious viewpoints. So, that covers Obama’s kids if they choose to move to TN after the election.
Report Post »LouC57
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:08amhahaha…Gonzo you’re sooooooooo bad!
Report Post »StonyBurk
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:16amThe original purpose for education in America was to inculcate Religion,Morality,and Knowledge -as those principles were deemed necessary to Good Government and the happiness of mankind. -See the twice passed Northwest Ordinance. I still find the pamphlet published by Dr. Benjamin Rush credible
Report Post »on the “use of the Bible in Schools. And I find Wm.J.Murray has certain credibility in his work Let us Pray.–though stylistically I wish it were written more like that editorial in Human Events July 30 ,1999
Let Us Pray by Terrence P.Jeffrey.This misguided notion that all children need to be educated as budding atheists -or agnostic secular humanists has not provided the utopian nirvana promised by the Dewey eyed progressive educators of the sixties and seventies. If implamented I fear this attempt in Tenn. will prove as great a harm as current attempts to militate students against all things religious.
kickagrandma
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:18amCute, but we don’t want them anywhere in the area, thank you very much.
Also, America is NOT a muslime country. they are certainly welcome to practice their godless “religion” and lifestyle in their own countries. Just get the heck out of ours.
Report Post »Lumbar Spine
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 9:58amKICKGRANDMA…so, in other words, you don’t believe in the Constitution? Every America is granted the right to practice his/her religious beliefs…in America. Because you hate Muslims does not mean you can, or should, stop Muslims from practicing their religion. Why do you hate the Constitution?
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 4:36pmLumbar, don’t bother responding to kickagrandma. She is a perfect representation of an aging, dying breed of Americans. Thank science people like her are slowly disappearing from this world.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 28, 2012 at 5:07pmThe Government should just stay out of schools, private or public. PERIOD. That’s the only legitimate argument. Everything else is based on the false notion that the US Constitution confers the Legislative, Executive and Judicial branches of the federal Government power to govern or manage OUR education.
Report Post »