Health

Turns Out ObamaCare Really Might Undermine Employer Health Coverage

WASHINGTON (AP) — The new health care law wasn’t supposed to undercut employer plans that have provided most people in the U.S. with coverage for generations.

But last week a leading manufacturer told workers their costs will jump partly because of the law. Also, a Democratic governor laid out a scheme for employers to get out of health care by shifting workers into taxpayer-subsidized insurance markets that open in 2014.

While it’s too early to proclaim the demise of job-based coverage, corporate number crunchers are looking at options that could lead to major changes.

“The economics of dropping existing coverage is about to become very attractive to many employers, both public and private,” said Gov. Phil Bredesen, D-Tenn.

That’s just not going to happen, White House officials say.

“The absolute certainty about the Affordable Care Act is that for many, many employers who cover millions of people, it increases the incentives for them to offer coverage,” said Jason Furman, an economic adviser to President Barack Obama.

But at least one major employer has shifted a greater share of plan costs to workers, and others are weighing the pros and cons of eventually forcing employees to strike out on their own.

“I don‘t think you are going to hear anybody publicly say ’We’ve made a decision to drop insurance,’ ” said Paul Keckley, executive director of the Deloitte Center for Health Solutions. “What we are hearing in our meetings is, ‘We don’t want to be the first one to drop benefits, but we would be the fast second.’ We are hearing that a lot.” Deloitte is a major accounting and consulting firm.

Employer health benefits have been a middle-class mainstay since World War II, when companies were encouraged to offer health insurance instead of pay raises. About 150 million workers and family members are now covered.

When lawmakers debated the legislation, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projected it would only have minimal impact on employer plans.

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Online:

Deloitte Center for Health Solutions: http://tinyurl.com/2ucbnvc

American Benefits Council: http://www.appwp.org/

Governor’s health care site: http://www.healthcare.gov/

Comments (160)

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  • Jack007
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 9:16am

    I will Insure 30 million more Americans and your insurance premiums will go down = Comrade Obama

    Dahh

    Report Post » Jack007  
  • MiketheTrucker
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 9:13am

    If you think this piece of “legislation” was written during this session of congress you are mistaken.

    Obamacare has been in the wings, waiting for the moment. It is set up to have a domino affect, and will destroy the private health insurance companies within ten years.

    The sole purpose of Obamacare was to create socialized medicine.

    Report Post »  
  • Wenchypoo
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:58am

    The HCR law was DESIGNED to interfere with employer coverage! The government couldn’t get Universal Coverage passed, so they created a way to make us all WANT to default to it by cutting rates and making the pan seem oh-so-much-more attractive to us than what we have now. Now we get less care for more money unless we switch to THEIR plan, which provides less care for less money.

    Here‘s what I’m doing to make sure I don‘t need more care than what I’m getting now: http://wenchwisdom.blogspot.com/p/d-i-y-health-care-reform.html

    Report Post »  
    • Doc_Slammin
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 3:58pm

      Uh.. your answer sounds an awful lot like a Nancy Pelosi/Michelle Obama nutrition campaign.

      Report Post » Doc_Slammin  
  • cotuit
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:58am

    I was unable to keep my policey. My new pol. is more exspensive; higher premium,higher co-pay, now have deductable. If we are to believe that POTUS is the smartest pres. we’ve ever had, that can only mean one thing, Joe Wilson was RIGHT.

    Report Post »  
  • NHABE64
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:46am

    OBAMACARE and basically every single program the Obama administration has come out with is a disaster. Watching Nancy “airhead” Pelosi stand there like the bonehead she is and tell us the bill has to be passed so we can find out what is in it is so typical of Washington DC socialist politicians. What a thing to say, so what she was telling us is she along with pretty much all the lliberal progressives (formerly the Democratic Party) put together a bill without even reading it. Amazing. This country is being ruled not governed by a liberal progressive bunch of communists. The Obamas, the Clintons, Pelosi, Reid, all of them. They are all part of a concentrated effort to undermine the very essence of what a free America is all about. The elitists. The 1% of our Washington DC groupies who actually think they are going to get away with it. Obammycare ? Don’t think so. There is one thing all these communist traitors can not control. They can not control the voices of Americans that will tell THEM on 2 November we have had enough. This administration has caused so much damage to the fabric of America it will take us years to recover from it. But recover from it we will, because we are America. We are the exceptional country Obama does not realize or is too stupid to understand he has grossly underestimated the goodness of the American people and he grossly underestimates our resolve to take America back. We will take America back.

    Report Post »  
  • mark85
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:35am

    So we are one step closer to Obama’s goal of destroying the most successful country in history. Which, by the way, we will be if we don’t get rid of this guy soon, even if it takes an out and out revolution. Read how easy it could be in A Revolution by Dave Leonard.

    Report Post »  
  • wingedwolf
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:32am

    There is nothing new here. These things were all known almost 2 years ago, when everyone was calling all of us crazy. Having allowed it to happen, now we just wait I guess and hope the commies don’t really get to takeover this time.

    Report Post » wingedwolf  
    • Hobbs57
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 11:42am

      I don’t think we allowed it to happen, I think we tried our darndest to stop it. They shoved it down our throats anyways. Do you think ?? They manipulatd the public with the lies, the doctor’s with the white coats on, and the Chicago style politics putting the heat on those Dem‘s who’s conscious was bothering them about voting for something they knew would slaughter the American dream. Not to mention using voting methods that were never intended to be used for such a huge change, or was it ??
      I am kinda glad they did it that way, now America, We The People, have come alive and maybe can finally flip this nation back to who she is supposed to be. It will take alot of prayer and effort to recover her integrity as these Progressives and Politicians have raped her repeatedly for almost 100 Years. We must come to together and stand strong. Get out the VOTE..!!

      Report Post » Hobbs57  
  • SamLiberty
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:29am

    WE Private Industry) are entering sign up season for healthcare for next year. The shock waves will startle people. I have an 18 year in college. Just the fact that she can stay on my health insurance for another 8 years will drive my cost up. Although young people don’t get sick as much , but insurance companies will have to factor that in. Also factor in th repeal of the Bush Tax cuts, the increases in taxes and health care cost will esentially wipe out all disposable income in my budget and many other families. Guess what we cut back even futrher , spending less ….Now take that across America and the economy will slip over the abyss.—

    Report Post »  
    • voodoo donut
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 10:18pm

      When Americans are hurting financially, why is it always the Democrats’ solution to take more from them, and make living more expensive? Blue state taxes are going up, because gee, they don’t have enough money for their social programs.

      I just want to scream at them to get their filthy, grubby fingers out of my pockets. How much is ENOUGH for these people?

      Report Post » voodoo donut  
  • Devil Dog 7175
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:27am

    I got the suprise this week… To comply with the new health care regs your health care deduction for existing coverage (I have a no frills, std coverage plan) has increased by 108%. Thanks alot you POS!
    Lying SOB knew this to begin with and COULDN’T HAVE CARED LESS!!!

    Report Post » Devil Dog 7175  
    • teahugger
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 9:35am

      Obama cared…about getting single payor healthcare in place. NOT caring isn’t his problem. Caring about the wrong things IS.

      Report Post » teahugger  
  • ccmill
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:26am

    It’s been fairly well established that employer-provided health insurance is an outdated practice and bad for business. Unfortunately, people have become so dependent on it that neither party has had the guts to campaign on changing the system.

    Report Post »  
    • recreationalcalculus
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 9:22am

      I have a secret hope that Obamacare might last just long enough to get employers to drop their health plans, then be repealed. Suddenly health insurance would be divorced from employment!

      Report Post » recreationalcalculus  
  • jilljarv
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:13am

    our family was very excited to hear of my sister’s promotion and raise a few months ago at a utility company in the southeast. Not too long after, they raised her health insurance premiums which just ate up all of her salary increase. Sad….

    Report Post »  
  • Marcobob69
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:06am

    One step closer to “single payer” healthcare, what Obama wanted all along. A Sundstein NUDGE; no a Sundstein SHOVE!!!

    Report Post »  
  • kuhl
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:04am

    Pelosi said we would have to pass the bill before we could read what was in it. It is “to complex” for the average small minded American to understand. I understand, you are taking away up to 40% of my income by forcing me to buy your health insurance with less coverage.

    Report Post »  
  • teahugger
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:03am

    I am thoroughly disgusted and not one bit surprised. Anyone with half a brain knew to expect insurance costs to go up and single payor to be the only option, eventually. What amazes me is the number of people who bought into any of O’s rhetoric. There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

    Report Post » teahugger  
    • APEXIdaho
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 11:14am

      He said him self that he wanted a single payer system in an interview before he was elected, people need to start paying attention!!!

      Report Post »  
  • SamLiberty
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:56am

    Obama was straight forward in 08 about what his plans were. Simple English . Joe the Plumber called him on it and he spun it. 53% bought into the BS…. What can we say about that 53%?
    When one makes statements thru out his career , you can find them on the interet, read them and see them and you still vote for the man and the party , what does that say about the electorate?
    Read just one book and you will understand Obama’s background, his thoughts and his desires.
    Read Rules for Radicals by Alinsky.

    Report Post »  
    • Doc_Slammin
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 3:52pm

      One problem with your theorcy though. I don’t think people voted for social programs, I think they wanted Republicans out of office because they abandoned their post. If they gain control of the House and/or Senate and do it again, the GOP is finished.

      Report Post » Doc_Slammin  
  • adifftake
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:54am

    Well I guess the CBO was wrong. Imagine that. Those who actually count money and supposedly keep track, know nothing of human nature. Wh would’a thunk it?

    Report Post »  
    • HKS
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:52am

      Given the shape we are in, I would say this is not CBOs first blunder. Now that I mention it, I can’t see anything they have ever done well. Like all government agencies they are at the direction of the president except for the Supreme Court and Obama is working on loading that at all cost and by any means. I would not rule out strange happenings going on there.

      Report Post » HKS  
    • Justthefactsmam
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 9:14am

      One thing you have to remember about the CBO and their projections, is they arrive at their determinations by using the numbers and data given to them, and gee, who gives them the numbers and data???

      Report Post » Justthefactsmam  
  • BoilitDown
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:45am

    I don’t believe dissecting the minutiae of Obamacare is productive in eliminating the overall socialistic and big government damages we are to suffer. I‘ll stay focused on calling for Obamacare to be repealed in it’s entirety. I rather like O‘Reilly’s continued call for it to be rewritten on one or two pages. Anything less leaves this monstrosity out there for unscrupulous lawmakers to manipulate and morf it into other means by which to tax and control us.

    Report Post »  
    • EP46
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 11:39am

      BoilitDown I agree with you. We must repeal the entire plan. Then we can reinstate all the things that do not belong in a health care plan. One example… put student loans back into private business. Do Not hire IRS agents to monitor who does and does not have insurance. Kids age 26 do not need to be on parents insurance unless they have a serious health problem that makes them a dependent. This monster plan is beyond any control.

      Report Post »  
    • untameable-kate
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 12:47pm

      Since when is 26 still a kid anyways. Are we trying to teach our kids independence or dependence so they will be more likely to accept socialism?

      Report Post » Untameable-kate  
    • BoilitDown
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 1:09pm

      EP46: The size and scope of it’s power is one of the major faults. It’s just too huge and unwieldy to ever be viable. All those pages hide elements that throw the doors wide open for fraud and lining politician’s pockets.
      For my grandchildren’s sake, it has to be repealed.

      Report Post »  
  • Peter Mazzoni
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:38am

    Obama care main goal was to destabilize private health care plans so the only choice would be a one payer system. Why have a health care law when business and people can get exemptions Mcdonalds, Wal*Mart, most of the liberal unions, Boeing ect. How come us normal people can not opt out as well?

    Report Post » Peter Mazzoni  
    • untameable-kate
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 11:27am

      I am opting out and if I have to be the first one thrown into the gulag for not playing thier idiot game, so be it. My family does not have health ins that doesen’t mean I am ready to suck from the govt teat. We go to the doctor when we need to and I PAY for it, no big deal. I also get really good discounts because I pay cash instead of using ins, So maybe the ins companies aren’t the only bad guys here. Seems like health care costs could come down if the hospitals and doctors stopped screwing the ins companies and visa versa.

      Report Post » Untameable-kate  
    • Promotefreedom
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 12:12pm

      Harry Reid stood before a group of supporters, a few months ago, BEFORE companies started pulling out of Obamacare, and said, I know we did not get everything we wanted in the bill. We did not get single-payer, but don’t worry folks, it is not a matter of IF, it is a matter of WHEN – we must be patient — trust me. (There was no further explanation).

      So, obviously, this was all planned quite a while ago, at the presidential level, behind closed doors.

      This country is in deep doo-doo when ?OUR? government pulls crap like this. Watch for Obama to rename the USA, the United Socialists of America.

      Report Post »  
  • Philo Beddoe
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:36am

    There’s a seldom used old saying:

    The chickens are coming home to roost

    Report Post » Philo Beddoe  
  • Diego Garcia
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:32am

    The problem with the blaze (and breitbart) is that people say very little on topic with the articles. You might as well say my nose is purple on your post. I gain nothing!!!

    Report Post »  
    • korbin
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:35am

      Then why are you on the Blaze? there is always Schutlz enheimer over at one of the honest networks. Probably more along your intelectual speed. God bless you.

      Report Post »  
    • grandmaof5
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:37am

      Sorry you feel that way. You can always opt out or add something of substance yourself. Personally I find the opinions and comments varied and interesting and think it shows the diversity of participants and their personal situations or backgrounds. God bless.

      Report Post »  
    • Lesterp
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:47am

      And your comment was on topic!

      Report Post » Lesterp  
    • BlazingBlonde
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:48am

      Poor darling, it is not obvious to you that people ARE reacting to the story and sharing how many ways it has been, just with this issue alone, that our president has lied to us with every step. I think what is happening, you want to hear how your 0bmamasiah has made us all so happy, (well, perhaps 3 people any way) and we are just behaving badly and not sending kisses his way. Sorry charlie.. this tuna stinks to high heaven and we can smell it from our house! This bill has made so much, so complicated, so convoluted, so punative, that there is nothing good about it, and pretty soon, even the 0bamazombies will realize the stench.

      Report Post » BlazingBlonde  
    • CatB
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 10:33pm

      Then why bother yourself ?.. I’m sure the Huffington Post ot PMSNBC has a Kool-Aid Report more to your liking.

      Report Post »  
  • Takebackgov
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:31am

    I am lucky enough to have pension when I retired. My cost for insurance was 11.00 a month in 1999. It is going up 86.00 a month in January to 439.00, plus 37.00 for dental insurance. That is 476.00 a month deducted from my pension. I now have 356.00 spendable income after my mortgage is paid. O said the rates are going to decrease; O is a liar. Has anyone else’s income rose as much as insurance rates?

    Report Post » Beckbot  
    • Contrarian51
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:57am

      The first time Obama said “If you like the plan you have, you can keep it“ my reaction was ”Not if my employer decides it’s cheaper to pay the fine than keep the plan.” Guess I’m a seer.

      Report Post »  
  • Madisonian
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:31am

    Sorry for the self promotion, but there’s a really simple plan for fixing the healthcare problem in this country.

    http://madisonianblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/how-to-fix-healthcare-for-real-and-it.html

    Report Post »  
    • SummerB
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 9:56am

      I totally agree with your solution — it’s simple & straight-forward. And if we could just chose the policy amendments a la carte that we want just like we do for our Homeowner’s or Auto Ins. that would make it most cost-effective. That’s why our key goal, henceforth, every election has to be getting a 2/3′s Republican Congressional majority.

      Report Post »  
    • Doc_Slammin
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 3:41pm

      Again, this solution does offer cost reduction to those who buy health insurance, but does little to drive the expanding costs of medical research, development, and mass production of equipment and pharmaceuticals.

      Report Post » Doc_Slammin  
    • Madisonian
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 9:19pm

      If we are more directly tied to our medical costs, that will create some level of cost containment on treatment options, medicines, and the like. When the patient is more or less removed from the money end of the transactions, it makes costs harder to contain.

      Also, one of the key factors in why devices and drugs are so expensive is excessive regulation. The FDA is a huge paper pushing entity, and I don’t think they do much to keep us safer. The amount of money a pharma spends to bring a successful drug to market also drags the carrying costs of those drugs which do not. Also, it’s like anything else new, big bucks, and then as the medicine is more readily accepted, the price will come down, especially if we’ve created more market competition.

      Report Post »  
  • IVillageIdiot
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:24am

    Obama’s goals = Cleon Skousen observations of CPUSA/USSR goals of 1962:

    Goal # 32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture—education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

    Report Post » IVillageIdiot  
  • IVillageIdiot
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:21am

    Repeal and replace! HELLO?!?!!?!?

    Report Post » IVillageIdiot  
    • IVillageIdiot
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:08am

      PLAN “B”:
      1. Everyone gets an HSA right now.
      2. Congress authorizes HIAs (Health Investment Accounts)
      3. Link the two so that the ONLY beneficiary of the HIA is your own HSA account.
      4. Forgive all capital gains and any other tax on HIA earnings, interest, dividends.
      5. Re-engineer the credit card system to include Product Types so that a given “credit card” can only purchase at certain locations and certain coded products.
      6. Allow any Medicinal product or service to carry a credit card code allowing purchase by your HSA card.
      7. Dissolve ALL current and future Federal entities currently charged with providing medical services.
      8. Return 50% of the taxes that would have been consumed by Federal services.
      9. Distribute the other 50% to EACH qualified HIA.
      10. Allow brokerages to develop new mass transaction, multiple account services for the purpose of managing multiple investor’s accounts, using combined automation. In other words, managed by subscription as a service at a small monthly price instead of per-transaction. (MAINSTREAM IT!)
      11. Allow NGOs (companies, Churches, Hospitals, clinics, other organizations) to form OHIAs utilizing their members contributions.
      12. Allow the transfer of OHIAs (HIAs for Organizations) to distribute earnings, interest, and dividends to their member’s HIAs and HSAs, tax free.
      13. Allow further tax breaks for Corporations that create and fund their OHIAs and engage in programs to help fund employee HIAs/HSAs as an employment incentive where companies would compete for the best employees using better incentives.
      14. Allow for the transfer of these types of accounts, tax free, to family members through one’s Estate.
      15. NO MONIES can leave the Individual HIA account except as interest, earnings, and dividends; at least 25% must be re-invested back into the same account; or else during the dissolution of ones estate.

      I’m an Idiot… and my plan is 10 fold better that Obama’s socialist take over. Of course, his plan is designed to co-opt and control 1/6 of the economy and to ensure big government forever by corralling those employees stuck that industry, into voting for more government when any “OTHER” party should suggest making government smaller.

      Who, of those working in the 1/6, are going to vote for a party that wants to reduce the size of government, when THEY are now a part of government?!?!??! NO ONE! It’s a new voting block just like in England. The only reason the English have a slim chance in this last cycle is that the Labour party blew it, and the power sharing agreement between the Torries and the Lib-Dems WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN…. they’re getting smarter in that both are going to get a little bit of what they want rather than, more LABOUR!

      In America, we have no such possibility as it’s winner take all. We would be screwed forever… and that was their purpose and has been in the planning for many, many years.

      REPEAL and REPLACE!

      (My plan is not about control, it about the opposite, NO ONE can control that and you’ll be able to get what you want and when you want it because a WHOLE bunch of new goods and services would be developed in an effort to get a all that cash which CAN ONLY BE SPENT ON HEALTH CARE goods and services) … can anyone hear me… hello? hello???

      Report Post » IVillageIdiot  
    • SamLiberty
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:35am

      Hate to say it but my wife is a nurse and she works for a major health insurance company. She voted for BHO. I told her she voted herself out of a job and a pay cut when she has to go back to working on the floor of a hospital. So don’t think all Healthcare professionals understand their own pocket book issues…. Also how many hospitals in this Country have the SEIU and other large Unions representing professionals , Nursed Doctors. You have to question their ability to understand giving Unions control over their professional careers.

      Report Post »  
    • figanodie
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:42am

      I like your ideas a LOT!
      Problem for congress: it’s about 1,999 pages too short and I can read and understand it for myself. ;)

      Report Post »  
    • PubliusMM
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 9:00am

      Reengineer the credit card system? Design a credit card for use solely within the context of health care purchases?

      Sorry…I’ll opt out of that. The transaction trail, alone, is WAY too much info available to the Feds at some later date.

      The ONLY PROPER SOLUTION: Get the government (at all levels) out of health care, apart from Veterans Medical services, which should be limited in scope and (perhaps) means tested.

      There is absolutely NO CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY for any of this garbage, going back to the inception of Medicare and its insidious tentacles.

      Report Post »  
    • RockingZ
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 9:54am

      VillageIdiot:
      Whoa there! Think carefully about what you’re proposing. Less government intrusion?

      Report Post »  
    • beekeeper
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 10:05am

      Publisim – the imagined paper trail wouldn’t have to include line item details, it would rely on cash register encoding of expense type (much like how fruit & milk are tax-free, but Oreos and prepared foods are taxed – it would be up to the cash reviser to accommodate two distinct CC charges, one from a HC account for approved medical devices, supplies and services, another for non-medical charges.

      Think of it as a debit card, with both a checking and a savings account on it. A purely medical purchase would charge your savings account and a purely non-medical purchase would charge your checking account – a co-mingled purchase would charge each account for the appropriate items.

      Report Post » beekeeper  
    • Diego Garcia
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 10:47am

      I’ve heard your plan elsewhere.

      Report Post »  
    • Doc_Slammin
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 2:02pm

      Looks like a well thought out plan. It addresses payment issues related to medical care and ways to saved for potential problems.

      But, you’ve barely touched the true underlying problem. Cost.

      Medicare sets the “low standard” for compensation of medical care, so by eliminating the program, it will even out cost between Medicare, private insurance, and self-paid plans. Kudos!

      However, medical costs will continue to rise. Why?

      For pharmaceutical and medical research, development, and mass production to occur, it must have capital. Once development occurs, capital must again be made to mass produce medications or equipment so they are available to doctors, hospitals, and pharmacies.

      This is where I become a bit ‘radical in ideology’, so forgive me in advance. ;)

      One way to help control medicinal costs would be to connect your doctor’s office and hospitals directly with the pharmacies via internet. A doctor could immediately stop, start, maintain, and review a patient’s medication history without unnecessary visits and charges. This would also make pharmaceutical fraud extremely difficult by eliminating paper prescriptions and giving doctor’s access to your pharmaceutical records.

      This would, certainly, need to be regulated, funded, and overseen by each individual State to ensure your records remain the sole privilege of yourself, your doctor, your insurance carrier, and your pharmacy only. If this were enacted on a nation wide scale via the federal government, the bureaucracy alone would over run the savings. Issues of privacy would emerge and the whole thing would become an over regulated mess.

      Report Post » Doc_Slammin  
    • IVillageIdiot
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 4:46pm

      @Diego Garcia, I HOPE So…. I’ve stuck it in every blog I thought had a chance of catching the eye of ANYONE that can help! Feel free to pass it along. Free market, Liberty based, smaller GVT foot-print and in the end…. EVERYONE actually gets served! It needs a fe tweaks I’m sure, but it way way way way… better than waitin in line until you or your loved one drops dead as now happens in England, France, Canada, and EVERYWHERE else it’s been tried.

      Report Post » IVillageIdiot  
    • IVillageIdiot
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 5:29pm

      @beekeeper
      Correct, and thanks! I‘m sure there would be new arguments over what is and what isn’t “Medicinal”, HOWEVER… we going to argue no matter what!!?!?? I would rather have us arguing over herbal tea’s medicinal value (with the lunatics that believe that…wink, wink) than arguing over WHO will receive the last life saving operation this month, Grandma or Grandpa! That’s where this is going, standing in front of boards trying to figure out who is going to get treated in an every shrinking pool of services and goods.

      Bribes? What would you do or give to save Grandma who lives in Chicago? How many services will be “sold” and charged to GVT accounts, but mysteriously never took place?

      Where a real person with their OWN money wants something, and they pay for it, and THEY KNOW IF THEY’VE GOTTEN IT OR NOT!!?!?!? There is no such conformation or oversight when a third party as large as GVT, which only marginally cares to check, is involved.

      Again thanks for you support. It really would not be too difficult. Make the code flexible enough to cover a wide range of goods an services, maybe two categories (“Product” and “Service”), and then watch the explosion of new goods and services that are created when manufactures and providers are vying in the market to capture a share of the newly produced, ever expanding revenue stream.

      The byproduct of all this of course, would be better and better treatment, and more and more care givers instead of shrinking it all down to nothing and nobody doing anything.

      Report Post » IVillageIdiot  
    • IVillageIdiot
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 6:55pm

      @DOC
      Thanks for your reply, I didn’t addresses the main philosophical issue which I didn’t have time/space to address initially.

      COST…. (you’re correct), all these plans/schemes try to wrangle their way around (basically) how to get more with little or nothing in exchange. That is what insurance is when you boil it down. I can’t afford $xx,xxx.xx for this service, XYX. But,… I want it anyway!

      So… someone ( along time ago) has figured out a nefarious scheme to pool various forms of resources in such a way that I can pay a small amount up front, in exchange for MORE value than I’ve paid-in. In the processing of this scheme, a “shaving” of the sums of these transactions are pulled out to promulgate the management of the process in addition to the realization of some profits via the investment of the remaining whole.

      In other words, a specialized management service where the back-end is controlled by denying claims for assumed benefits, etc, etc, etc. BUT STILL… the controls are not in your own hands! Whether you’re paying the GVT or paying the Management Service (Ins co), you ARE still paying someone else a small amount and expecting more in return than that which you’ve paid out. It’s wrong, and yet we all do it.

      The diabolical flip-side to this process is that it stymies the market forces that would correct the deficiencies of width , depth, and breadth of services. In other words… we’re shooting ourselves in the foot trying to take care of our feet, by accepting the premise, “We need to keep the Costs down”… I disagree!

      My arrangement of the Adam Smith’s music, necessarily refutes the notion that Cost is the problem. If we go down that trail, we will get lost chasing pennies, dimes, and nickels looking for savings and trying to chisel value out of nothing. That,… is a fool’s errand. We might as well be chasing snipes in the woods while GVT is growing and expanding it’s controls so they can “deal with us” once we find out what they’ve been up to as were out in the woods playing around and laughing.

      THOUGH, I do agree with your ideas for creating more efficiencies, however I would point out that the MOST efficient plan would be to eliminate the NEED for third party oversight, BY… excluding the others from MY transactions. If I need an aspirin, I take MY money, I by an aspirin from someone that produces them, and I take the aspirin I bought. For me, getting the aspirin is the point of the exercise, if I get it, I win, if I don’t I complain and get MY money back. If it’s GVT/INS, THEY… want to make sure I bought the aspirin, THEY want to make sure it’s not a scam, THEY want to track and control. We don’t need that if it’s MY MONEY!

      The primary reason for the Cost, is that someone has to pay for whatever is ACTUALLY delivered. So… “Cost” isn’t the real problem, UNLESS… you’re problem is: “How do I get something for nothing!!!”. The real problem to my mind is (and hopefully to everyone else),… how can I get ENOUGH money to pay for what I want. OR…socially, how do WE get enough money to pay for the things WE want?

      I would submit that the collectivist enemy short circuits the full examination of the problem so as to control the viable options to false conclusion. The premise of their malfeasance is that… “You can’t get enough money/wealth, therefore you must give us the controls so we can get it for you”. BS!

      Gates, Corrzine, Pelosi, Kennedy, Soros, etc, etc, etc… all have enough wealth to get any treatment they want, the collectivists and the effetist ALL want us to believe that we CAN’T do what they have done! They say “You can’t do it by yourself, those people are special and you should not look to them as your solution”. I say, they are no better than anyone else, and if the GVT(s) wasn’t consuming 40%-50% of my income, blowing a 30% of that, and consuming another 30% of the product of my investments, I WOULD HAVE A MUCH BETTER CHANCE?!?!?!? (thank you very much…)

      So… (bottom line) we are trying to chase costs so we can keep the scheme rolling, when we SHOULD… be trying to build wealth to pay for these goods and services that we want.

      We do that, we build our own accounts, we build our family’s accounts, we build our company’s account, we build our Churches accounts, we build our Club’s accounts, we build the Hospital’s accounts, and we halt the confiscation of income so we can then employ wealthy to that end,… and we shall want for nothing related to Health Care…..

      (it may take a little while, but it will work FOR SURE!)

      Report Post » IVillageIdiot  
    • IVillageIdiot
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:13pm

      @RockingZ

      I HAVE?!!?!? Yes, this is way less that BHO take over. All I’m asking for, is a ROTH IRA like account where I can evade GVT confiscation of wealth for the purposes of taking care of MY OWN health care, and that of my family. The only thing I’ve asked GVT to do, is GET OUT OF THE WAY….. Product Coding would be done by the credit card companies. Granted, the product classification could have some GVT participation, but it’s minimal for the most part as it would mostly be challenging dubious claims, but the FDA already has most of that for existing products.

      In the end, would you rather have BHO and his chorines decide who gets what? Do you think that won’t get political and become something like: “That guy isn’t on our side, he can wait for the operation”?!?!!? (I rest my case)

      Report Post » IVillageIdiot  
  • takingonissues.com
    Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:21am

    Ahh and so it begins….the lies we were told about ObamaCare are beginning to come out. But the truth about ObamaCare wasn’t supposed to come out until after the election…ooops. We all know they lied about how wonderful ObamaCare will be….it’s not wonderful, it’s a horror. Do yourself, your kids and the next generations a huge favor, vote out of office next Tuesday anyone who voted yes for ObamaCare.

    Report Post »  
    • Diego Garcia
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 7:30am

      I guess the CBO has wrecked its reputation. Once considered non-partisan and their projections gospel are now no longer going to be accepted as such.

      Report Post »  
    • heavyduty
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:15am

      TAKINGONISSUES: There was no doubt that this bill was bad for AMERICA.

      1. It was a partisan bill.
      2. They had to make closed door deals.
      3. They had to take over a year to get it passed.
      Yes, we need to get rid of all of them. But right now I would settle for the ones that voted this into law to be ousted. Then we can start with the Republicans if they don’t get their priorities straight in 2012.

      Report Post »  
    • snowleopard3200
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:25am

      Yes the nightmare now begins for socialized medicine – like the good old USSR, or Cuba. It also is to be remembered that the Obama care legislation seized the student loan system exclusivly for the feds, and the president signed a non-effect executive order to con six or so swing voters into passage of this nightmare.

      http://www.artinphoenix.com/gallery/grimm (mix art)

      Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • tobywil2
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 9:29am

      Our President has a courageous plan to save both Social Security and Medicare

      The Social Security Trust Fund is almost bankrupt and the Medicare trust fund is bankrupt. The problem has been apparent for years but until now no one has advanced a plan to save these popular programs.

      At last, our President has the courage to propose a solution! It is so simple that one wonders why no one thought of it before. The solution?

      Enact a “Health Care Reform Bill” the severely rations health care to the elderly. This will save the Medicare Trust Fund and allow it to be used to reward the Presidents political cronies and provide health care for “deserving Illegal Aliens.”
      Deprived of medical care, the lifespan of the elderly will be reduced, depleting the number of recipients of the Social Security Trust Fund, saving that popular program.

      Both problems solved! Why did it take so long to find such a simple solution?

      Of course, the Congress and the President are exempted from the solution so they can perpetuate the problem.
      http://commonsense21c.com/

      Report Post » tobywil2  
    • beekeeper
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 9:55am

      I have a real simple question – we all heard that there were between 43 to 50 Million people in America without health care insurance for all manner of reasons (choice, pre-existing conditions, between employer plans, not offered by employer, too expensive, etc.), so why didn‘t the Gov’t simply craft a true Gov’t option, one that you can sign-up for at any time, one that covers pre-existing conditions, and has no annual of lifetime “cap” on benefits? IAnswer, it would be too bloody expensive! t’s what they always wanted, but instead we‘ve got the Gov’t forcing private insurance companies to offer such policies so that the insurance companies can be the villain, and then Gov’t can ride in, offer a more cost-reasonable plan that includes rationing, cost-effective (if sub-optimal) treatments, embraces a strategy that focuses on healthy, mature workers, seniors and children less, so that the greatest societal benefit is achieved..

      It makes no sense to twist and pervert the health insurance industry the way the current health care bill does, if you intend on keeping the companies around. The most amazing thing to me was when HHS Sect’y Sebilus wanted to prevent health care coverage premium increases as a result of changes required by HCR law. The Sect’y claimed the increases were politically-motivated, and vowed to work with state regulators to prevent those increases. It was a ploy to convince most Americans that don‘t pay attention to details that the Obama administration was looking out for them when in reality costs were increasing because not only didn’t HCR reduce costs, every item enacted so far has explicitly increased costs for the insurance companies and introduced uncertainty, both of which drive costs UP not down.

      Report Post » beekeeper  
    • dominke
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 10:14am

      Why are people surprised by this. Obama stated before elections his ideas for america. Anyone 5th grader could figure out the cost of this healthcare bill. Obama said we would become a 3rd world economy so he could redistribute our wealth. Those that voted for him and this congress should be ashamed of themself. When those that wanted this will receive no sympathy from me when they loose everything. I have had it with left wing liberal dems.

      Report Post » dominke  
    • Rogue
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 10:53am

      We’ve already had to replace our paid health insurance for our employees. About 6 months ago, when premiums shot up, we were forced to drop the health plan and open health savings accounts for all of our employees. Our employees not have a set amount of money each month to either pay for thier own insurance, or use it to pay for medical-related expenses, but the amount given is not anywhere near enough to pay individually for the same level of coverage they were getting previously. That was the choice we were forced to make – either lay off several people to continue helath benefits for the rest, or drop health insurance and try to keep everyone employed.

      That is the plight of most small businesses right now. Under Obamacare, employee based health coverage will become a thing of the past. We run on a very low profit margin, and it forced our hand very early, but even larger companies with larger proffit margins are beginning to feel the overwhelming burdens. Unless this is repealed, Obama will have his way – pushing millions into the government mandated care systems being set up.

      There is no way to keep his promise of being able to keep the insurance you have when companies simply can’t afford it. If you raise your prices to your customers to cover increased employee based health costs, you price yourself out of your market and become uncompetitve. For tha majority of small businesses, the only way to keep business afloat in the current economic environment is to cut costs across the board, and the first cut is typically the outragously expensive health care programs.

      Report Post » Rogue  
    • Brooke Lorren
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 12:02pm

      They’re trying to get rid of HSAs too. Those are the best thing since sliced bread, IMO, for healthy families. When my husband actually worked at a place that offered health insurance, it was cheaper for me and my daughter to buy our own health insurance than to go with the employer’s plan ($200/month as opposed to $600/month). When they switched to HSAs, it was great! Since we didn’t need to go to the doctor often, we had plenty of money left in the account at the end of the year.

      But they want to get rid of those too. If it makes sense, you have to get rid of it.

      http://www.squidoo.com/glenn-beck-book-club

      Report Post »  
    • UPSETVET
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 1:20pm

      A lot of the “ under the table facts and agreements ” are starting to reach the public. The majority of Americans knew things would be this way and most of their fears are now vindicated. This is bad news for the democrats before the elections November 2nd.

      Report Post »  
    • sonia
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 1:24pm

      you can count on me

      Report Post » sonia  
    • SheriS
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 2:13pm

      Unfortunately, I received a letter from the Company which has provided my healthcare insurance since my husband died, only to learn my plan will have an increase of 34% and recommends I could do better with some government insurance! This is the letter I had been waiting for to learn what the company would do this year! Exactly what most of us believed would happen as retirees. I am not angry with the company but with the IDIOTS IN WASHINGTON STARTING IN THE WHITE HOUSE! Unfortunately for the company, I would rather pay the 34% increase then go on Obamacare! I am disgusted but at my age, I need to look out for myself–the government be damned as one of the specialist I see told me on my last visit, I will have to write a check for $125 before I receive service as she will deal with no government or private insurance henceforth! Certainly Obamacare is a travesty for all Americans! I hope all the readers fare better then I have–GOOD LUCK!

      Report Post »  
    • Kaen
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:33pm

      You all, and pretty much everyone I talk to is missing the big picture…Comrade Obama and the socialist/marxist pigs in Washington KNEW this would happen. This was DESIGNED to DESTROY our healthcare system thus leaving NO OTHER OPTION than the COMPLETE GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER of healthcare. Obamacare WAS NEVER about providing healthcare to those without. Obamacare WAS NEVER about reducing healthcare costs. Obamacare WAS ALL ABOUT ruining our healthcare options so that the only option left is SOCIALIZED MEDICINE at the GOVERNMENTS direction.

      The writing is on the wall people….read it!

      http://thefreeamerica.blogspot.com/

      Report Post » Kaen  
    • CatB
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 8:34pm

      That is exactly what it is supposed to do … lead to single payer .. Obama said so over and over .. BEFORE running for President.

      Report Post »  
    • ebill
      Posted on October 24, 2010 at 9:00pm

      Obamacare is all about power over the masses. It never was about health care other than in one aspect. The baby boomers are due to retire and put a strain on the health care system. Both parties have been trying to figure out a way to avoid that pay out; In order to achieve that a single payer system is needed that can control the expenses of seniors and the middle class. Did you really think that they were going to pay for us as we age? With a control like this the elite remain in power and everyone else suffers. Seniors understand what’s happening. The democrats have sold the youth on the idea of covering everyone, when in reality, everyone will pay. Some now, and some later.

      If you thought health care was expensive, just wait until it’s FREE!

      Report Post »  
    • DaytonConserve
      Posted on October 25, 2010 at 1:40am

      When our agent informed us that United Healthcare was raising small group premium 20 to 70 percent, our group coverage was cancelled. Thanks Nancy, Harry, and Barack.

      Report Post »  
    • staythecourse
      Posted on October 25, 2010 at 2:08am

      Kaen…you are exactly right. That was the one thing that jumped off the page when I read the bill. I continued to be amazed that so few people actually saw it. It is all about collapsing the system and tyranical control of the American people AND about complete and total control of children. Recently came across an excellent article by Jane M. Orient, M.D. entitled, “Obama Care: what is in it” . Published in Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, Vol 15, no 3, Fall 2010. She does a most incredible job of reducing the whole bill to seven pages of analysis and she is right on target. She also identifies the fact that the insurance industry is meant to fail.

      And parents… be sure to check out Section 2953 /Sec 513 of the bill entitled “Personal Responsibility Education”. Your children now belong to the State. (and, just released by HHS, they will also be having annual psychological exams to assess for any behavioral problems so the State can address any psych concerns before they become “problems” — sort of like Tom Cruise in “minority report” only it will be about your kids… oh, and the State will be teaching your kids about how best to communicate with you (remember Gore telling kids that they knew more than their parents…that is just the beginning.) This Act is true tyranny and must be repealed completely. don’t be fooled into thinking that we can repeal sections of the bill. The entire infrastructure is currently being set up!

      Report Post »  
    • JKN
      Posted on October 25, 2010 at 8:24am

      The overwhelming majority of the American people were dead set against this massive Health Care/Redistribution of Wealth scheme; yet, our so-called “representatives” ignored our majority will and used every sleazy trick in the book to jam this monstrosity through… Premiums will rise for all Americans so that 30 million will be able to receive it free… I wonder how many of these 30 million may be illegal aliens? Illegal aliens but permanent Democrat voters…

      Report Post » Jackers  
    • valricoslash
      Posted on October 25, 2010 at 7:31pm

      Tobywill2. You must have gotten into my mind. I have been espousing this concept of 1) Increasing the age for Social Security in order to decrease the number of people who will actually make it to retirement age, thus saving the government money, and 2) Obamas health care system that would in fact ration quality care for senior thu reducing their life expectancy. Its the secret plan will save Social Security and Medicare under theguise of making things chaper and better. I would like to see the projections on the numbers of people expected to reach retiement under the current and proposed age qualifcations. I’ll bet thy would be eye openers.

      Report Post » valricoslash  
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