Two U.S. Malls Set to Track Shoppers’ Cell Phones on Black Friday
- Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:04am by
Liz Klimas
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Two malls this Black Friday will be picking up on shoppers’ cell signals and tracking their movements in order to see “patterns of movement.” This is the first time cell phones tracking technology has been used to monitor shoppers movements in malls, CNN Money reports, although the concept of tracking movements in shopping centers is not a new practice.
(Photo: AP)
CNN Money has more on the monitoring, which will take place from Black Friday through New Years day at Promenade Temecula in southern California and Short Pump Town Center in Richmond, Va.:
The goal is for stores to answer questions like: How many Nordstrom shoppers also stop at Starbucks? How long do most customers linger in Victoria’s Secret? Are there unpopular spots in the mall that aren’t being visited?
[...]
“We won’t be looking at singular shoppers,” said Stephanie Shriver-Engdahl, vice president of digital strategy for Forest City, [ which is the management company for both malls]. “The system monitors patterns of movement. We can see, like migrating birds, where people are going to.”
The system they are using, FootPath Technology, picks up unique identification numbers of phones using antennas set up around the mall in order to track movement. Check out a simulation of how the technology works here. It doesn’t take photos or any other data and officials say all tracking will be anonymous.
CNN reports that a few retailers such as JC Penny and Home Depot have also considered using such technology in order to track products and marketing tactics that do and do not attract customers.
Screenshot from FootPath Technology demo.
Still, shoppers are being alerted of the monitoring system with signs throughout the mall and, if they wish to not be tracked, are encouraged to turn off their cell phone.
CNN reports FootPath Technology‘s manufacturer Path Intelligence’s CEO Sharon Biggar as saying shoppers rarely opt out:
“It’s just not invasive of privacy,” she said. “There are no risks to privacy, so I don’t see why anyone would opt out.”
With such technology though, the opportunity for hackers to capitalize on information being collected is always a possibility.
[H/T: Drudge Report]
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Comments (105)
christianUSA
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 2:41pmOpinion: these are not cops, there are no warrants, no criminal activities, just out and out violation of US privacy right! They should be sued out of ownership, jailed and they and families publicly put on national news scrutiny to let them know what they would do to others!
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 3:18pmWhat privacy was violated please? What identifying information does the mall have that enables them to say “Hey, that phone is GhostofJefferson’s phone!” please?
Thanks.
Report Post »TheLeftMadeMeRight
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 4:09pmYou know when I was a car salesman, some of us would “shoot license plates” on Sundays. The people that drove through the lot when we were closed would stop and look at the cars. We would be posing as customer’s doing the same, but we would write down their license plates, then look them up on the microfiche machine the boss had in the back. Then we would call them at home to try and sell them a car.
No different today, just lots more technology. Don’t like it? Take the battery out of your phone when you go to the mall, and cover your license plates!
Report Post »Latter-Day-Soldier
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 5:46pmI think I’ll opt-out of black-Friday altogether; heck, I haven’t even watched all the 1, 3, and 5 dollar DVD’s that I bought last year
Report Post »V-MAN MACE
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 10:08pmMerry Christmas and Happy Holidays from the Department of Homeland Security!
***WARNING***
***WATCH OUT FOR EXPLODING GIFT-WRAPPED PACKAGES, ESPECIALLY IF IT SAYS “ACME” ON IT***
***BEWARE OF EXPLODING ELVES AND TURKEYS***
***REPORT ANY UNAUTHORIZED USE OF ORNAMENTS AND CRANBERRY SAUCE***
***DON’T EAT THE POINSETTIAS***
***DID YOU USE THE RESTROOM BEFORE YOU LEFT HOME?***
***LET ME WIPE THAT FOR YOU***
***RANDOM GROPEDOWN ON ANYONE WEARING “HOLIDAY” CLOTHING ITEMS***
*** DO NOT REFUSE TSANTA’S PATDOWN PRIOR TO SITTING ON HIS LAP OR FACE A $15000 FINE***
***EVERYONE IN LINE MUST SIT ON TSANTA’S LAP, AND THEY BETTER LIKE IT***
Report Post »pamela kay
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:52pmCHRISTIANUSA, I agree, we have little privacy left as it is. Ordering on the internet is risky as well. I can not believe the ways of tracking that are available today. It is a scary and messed up world, God help us.
Report Post »LV2SURF
Posted on November 24, 2011 at 7:13amLike Family Circus cartoon where Jeffy’s foot prints go all over the yard. Mine might not be so entertaining. I wonder how I will look to the computer tracker at 11:00, 12:00, 1:00, 2:00, 3:00, 4:00, … if I stay at the bar at Cheesecake Factory the whole time?
Report Post »lillymckim
Posted on November 24, 2011 at 7:40amTurn off the “location” service on your phones until you are done shopping..
Report Post »Thecoolhandluke
Posted on November 24, 2011 at 7:52amOpinion: ChristianUSA is crazy. Would you really trample the rights of property owners to expand your so called right to privacy (keep in mind property rights are one of the–if not the most–fundamental building blocks of American civilization)? Both malls are private property owned by a company. If you voluntarily set foot onto private property, you play by the rules of the owner. That’s why establishments have rules such as: “no shirt, no shoes, no service,“ ”no smoking” (or ever more rare, “smoking section”), “actions being monitored by cctv,” etc. If you don’t want to follow the rules of the establishment, don’t patronize it. Nobody is forcing anyone to give up any privacy in this situation. Indeed it sounds like the mall company couldn‘t be more open about what they’re doing. Any privacy given up will be given up voluntarily, by those people that voluntarily still decide to shop at either mall. It’s a serious thing to call for people to be jailed and their families humiliated. Next time you do it, you had better be able to back it up with sound reasoning.
Report Post »AJC1973
Posted on November 24, 2011 at 9:09pmso if they track you using cameras no issues but omg if they use an app that tracks your cell phone omg the horrors it is not a violation of privacy you dont have to go to that mall… its their property if they want to track you by putting aperson on you and follow through the store they can because shocking its their property… this is just for marketing purposes to see who goes where… they dont need a warrnt to track you through their property… in fact its their right to do so… just like it is your right to shop someplace else
Report Post »ninetoesjudd
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 2:29pmLet’s all go to that mall and run around in circles.
Report Post »PilgrimStuckInBizarroWorld
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 3:46pmNow that’s funny!
Report Post »cdavis2009
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 3:51pmThat would be a good flash mob.
Report Post »Jeff777
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 10:53pmLol…if everyone did that and left without a purchase that would be incredible. Or buy things from stores They don’t want to shop at and return them the next day with their phones off!
Report Post »AJC1973
Posted on November 24, 2011 at 9:13pmeveryone come in go to the restroom, stop by all the stalls and all the sinks then go out find another restroom and do the same thing….or you could walk in the pattern of something… maybe a giant middle finger lol
Report Post »SueZQT
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 2:10pmThe Temecula Promenade is the nearest mall to where I live, and I won’t be doing any Christmas shopping there or any other mall this weekend…the whole insanity of “Black Friday” is just not my cup o’ tea. To each his own…But-the whole tracking of the cell phone thing is really no surprise. I’m sure we are being filmed, tracked and listened to all the time. Thank you “Homeland Security”…now do you feel more secure????
Report Post »wbalzley
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 3:57pmSNARK: You have nothing to fear, if you have nothing to HIDE…
Report Post »Latter-Day-Soldier
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 5:51pm@WBALZLEY: Guten tag herr shopper…Show me ze paperz paleeze!
Report Post »ROFL
lel2007
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 1:50pmI wonder if the “trackers” might be able to detect the beginnings of a “flash mob”.
Report Post »irishman
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 1:36pmAll malls that practice this gross invasion of privacy should be boycotted till they board the place up.
Report Post »cobra two
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 1:01pmAnd the sheeple are too stupid to counter this move by EVERYONE turning off their phones.
Report Post »But we all know the mind numbed robots can’t function in life more than 5 minutes without sending
text messages even if its to the damn person standing right next to them.
lukerw
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 1:17pmTake their phones away… and they would just wonder around… alike Zombies!
Report Post »war7412
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:58pmNot taking the phone……..and sometimes at home I turn it OFF…………
Report Post »Brooke Lorren
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 1:25pmMy phone is often on, but I nearly always leave it in the car. I only have it for emergencies – not likely to encounter an emergency when I’m in the shopping mall. I don’t need people calling me wherever I go either.
Report Post »garbagecanlogic
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:55pmGuess the battery in my cell phone is coming out.
The U.S. Out Of The U.N.
Report Post »The U.N. Out Of The U.S.
Latter-Day-Soldier
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 5:54pmAnd as soon as you pop the cover off the battery, you hear the following from your phone “Please keep the battery in the phone, we have not made our quota for the month” LOL
Report Post »Micmac
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:55pmActually this could prove valuable information for architects that design malls, but it should be conducted a different way. It would also be extremely useful for in-store studies for the Macy’s type boxes. The mall should handout tracking devices with GPS‘s with a time stamp and have people opt in with the reward of a Starbuck’s gift certificate for a cup of java. All above board. But tracking anyone without their consent puts their study into the slippery slope category. No bueno amis.
NoBama 2012
Report Post »Reboot Washington
PROTECTNEXTGEN
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 1:47pmFriggin Excellent Idea. With consent and a truly anonymous transferrable tracking device, privacy is preserved and desired marketing information is collected. I get the sense, though, that they would rather take liberties and explain away the problems.
Report Post »LostInWashington
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 5:02pmThe best comment so far. The only problem would be peoples habits being changed by the gift certificate you give them. Even if was for a future use you understand a portion of people would not think about that and change the pattern by visiting where ever the gift cert was for. Thus invalidating the results of the program. The best solution to me is having signs inside and out stating what they are doing. That way you can exercise your freewill and chose to enter the mall or find somewhere else to shop.
Report Post »Daveed
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:48pmIt is a slippery slope. The truth is if the stores sell quality products and have great customer service, they get business, if they do not, then no business. If store has continuous low profits. The people are not buying there. Hello?
I could of told that to the major Mall owners and not charged them the big change that this Monitoring Company(s) charge. It is not brain surgery.
Report Post »JRook
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:52pmWe live in a country where you can’t smoke a cigarette in many public parks now, but this type of stuff is legal. And no I’m not a smoker. But think the needle has gone way too far.
Report Post »Micmac
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:57pm@ JROOK
The needle has gone into the arm of the politicians who pass these laws.
NoBama 2012
Report Post »Reboot Washington
jacovito
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:45pmBoycott the mall, but if you must go, leave your cell in the car.
Report Post »yazoo
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:44pmIF a mall or store could block all cell phone signals on their premises , would not that be better than tracking?
Report Post »AJC1973
Posted on November 24, 2011 at 9:15pmnot if the purpose is to track how customers shop through their mall…
Report Post »Secessionista
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:36pmIt ill be great fun when these malls find out their store sales for the month plummeted.
Track that beotch.
Report Post »Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:29pmCan’t you just turn of GPS, or is it tracking a different signal?
Report Post »Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:33pmJust re-read the story and checked the link to FootPath Tech. Not fully awake today. Dub, dub, dub
Report Post »:-)
Okipanderz
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:20pmpersonally dont like it. i dont care if its used to “track movement” throughout the mall and find out which shoppers enjoy going to starbucks as well as macys or whatever…whats that gonna do for macys or starbucks? macys going to start sellin starbucks? starbucks goin to start sellling apparell? Ghost mentioned that they use little clickers to track traffic movement…so…how bout have an employee at each store entrance with a clicker? today it may “just be” to “track movement” for marketing purposes,product movement,etc…but what will it be tomorrow?
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:35pmBecause it’s not the stores tracking it, it’s the mall. The mall rents out space to stores. If I were tracking this as a mall owner, I’d figure out flow of traffic, seeing if congestion points occur because a lot of people go to shop X and then to Shop Y normally, where shop Y is across the mall. Or things like that. It would help with specific details so that malls don’t have to spend lots of bucks to open up areas “’cause it just gets crowded”, and could be used to really save malls money as well as help customers not be so inconvenienced, say by placing store X and store Y next to each other (if possible).
This really isn’t that sinister folks.
Report Post »Micmac
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 1:05pm@ GHOST
I agree. But 1 HUGE piece of data is verifying for the secondary tier tenants existing and future) what impact the anchor tenants bring in customers initially that then visit the smaller stores. This could easily be used to impact (spelled “increase”) rents as a set fee plus a % of sales. Also. those areas that are not visited much could be redesigned to attract customers to draw them to that zone.
Report Post »LLATPOH
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 1:10pm@Ghost
Judging by the amount of posts you have to this, you might want to quit while you’re still not tired. :)
I agree 100% with you… However, and with all due respect to everyone that posts here, a lot of people have no idea how this stuff works. Like you said… to most people, technology is “magic.”
There’s always a vast conspiracy about what the government can do. Heck, the FCC couldn’t run a national EAS test – a decade-old technology – without royally messing up.
But you’ll be fighting the tinfoil-hats AND – respectfully – the technologically ignorant on this battle, which is like fighting a forest fire with a garden hose. Gotta ask yourself after a bit… Is it really worth your time?
Take Care – LLATPOH
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 3:35pm@LLATPOH
Yeah, I hear ya’. :)
Because I am so sensitive to privacy invasion, I tend to look for the actual real privacy revealing stuff and expend my energy there. Spinning my wheels on things that are not invasions of privacy is futile, so I try to take my time and examine the issues in question dispassionately. I didn’t spend so much time being an EFF advocate because I wanted my privacy invaded after all, and life is too short to shoot at shadows thinking that they’re targets.
Wish I could help folks understand, but I strongly believe it is precisely the case as you’ve stated it.
Have a happy Thanksgiving!
Report Post »independentvoteril
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:20pmEXCUSE ME but I have to TURN OFF my cell phone NOT to be tracked??Just who the H3LL pays my cell phone bill? IF the stores PAY my bill so they can track me THAN OK but as long as I pay they do NOT have the right to do so.. my cell phone is my personal property.. my cell service should be as well since I PAY FOR IT.. SINCE many people use their cells to CALL others they are shopping with to find out where they are at turning OFF the phone doesn’t seem like a good plan for NOT being tracked. BETTER idea DON’T go to the MALLS during the holidays.. I know I won’t be..
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:40pmYour car can be tracked just tooling down the road. You know that right? License plates give away all kinds of information.
If you want your signals to be private, and given that this is not possible now (your conversation is encrypted, that’s private, but your signal is travelling on the public airwaves and noticable at will by anybody), then figure out a way to do that, and market it, I assure you you’ll be a billionaire in a matter of a few years.
Relax though, they have no way of identifying you by this. And, it’s not the government.
Report Post »Jumper
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:14pm@GHOSTOF JEFFERSON:
you said : Remember, the only people who can link your phones chip numbers to you are the phone company. From what I read, no data is being saved with this action, ergo, no identification can be done by the mall.
How in the world do you know? You’re either(a) not telling us something, (b) an extremly trusting individual, or (c) a fool. Any program or technology that can track your phone, can have within it teh software to glean personal info from it. It has to be able to lock onto your phone’s signal, what on earth makes you think it couldn’t pull any other info it wanted to? Just because the mall owner/management said so? Give me a break! I don’t live in either one of tese cities, but I can tell you I wouldn’t be going to either of these malls,EVER again, if I did. If this kind of Orwellian crap comes to a mall in my town, won’t go there again, EVER. And, since when do civilian businesses need, or have the right to use, this kind of technology? HELLO, 4th Amendment anyone? Since when does somebody, anybody(cops included) who doesn’t have a warrant, get to track where I go and how much time I spend there? That’s my business, if you want to know, ask me, or go get a warrant!
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:28pmDon’t be so angry, it’s a discussion, not a life and death struggle.
The malls would have to have direct access to *every* cell companies‘ records to procure personal identifying information about you from your phone’s antenna chip number. Are you telling me that all of business is colluding to track you and that they have all their records linked together in some giant nefarious database? Seriously? Have you ever tried to link records between companies like that? Hell bro, it’s all private medical establishments can do to make all of their “patient tracking” medical record systems work in house, for example.
I work with technology and have worked with things like RFID in the past. An awful lot of “OMG TEOTWAWKI !!” stuff is paranoia based on phantoms, illusions, ignorance and misunderstanding. Not all of it, but a lot of it. Most people treat high technology like magic, and consider anything possible when dealing with “magic”.
Understand, I’m probably far more privacy aware than most people could ever conceive of, which is why I don‘t text and don’t carry a cell phone as a habit if I can avoid it, and I find I can avoid it 99 days out of 100. If I carry a phone, I know the risks and I accept them as a matter of course, when it comes to private institutions. Were this about government then I think you’d have much more of a case, but it’s not.
Report Post »Okipanderz
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 3:07pm@GHOST:
HOW DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW that they have no way of identifying anyone? im totally curious as to why you seem to be their spokesperson and know everything there is to know about their technology and methods and intentions? do they confide in you with their plans?
sure….its not that big of a deal…yet :)
Report Post »Latter-Day-Soldier
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 6:14pmI carry a straight talk phone from wall mart, no Soc Sec number required for those…yet. Anywho, I get the services I want (unlimited talk and text) for roughly half the price that I would normally have shelled out to the cell phone companies that I have done business with in the past.
Report Post »Besides, I am more concerned about T.S.A. agents setting up checkpoints on highways and weigh-stations (so far limited to Tennessee), no conspiracy theory there, I watched the news broadcasts.
timola
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:10pmYes, it can be used for private tracking. Everytime you walk in the door, the phone lets the system know it is you again. Ad the radio wave chips in products and face recognition security systems (research walmart) and it is very easily used for privacy. Phones should not be their business. Police yes, marketing no. Stalking definitely not.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:18pmWhere was face recognition tracking mentioned? How can the stores access the cell phone company records to link your antenna chip to you personally? Perhaps I missed something in the article, if you say it is personally identifying as you do.
Report Post »yazoo
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:58amCan cell phone signals be jammed in and around, say a mall for instance?
Report Post »SpartanPride
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:58amHow about just avoiding these retail outlets entirely?
Report Post »Spyder
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:41amTurning off your phone alone will not do it. It can still be tracked as long as there is a power source in the phone. Remove the battery from your phone to avoid tracking. Then if you need to use your phone, pop in the battery, Turn it on, make your call and then remove the battery again.
Either that or just leave your phone in your car while you shop. We lived for years without cell phones, so to act as if you can’t live without it for a few hours is ludicrous.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:51am“Either that or just leave your phone in your car while you shop. We lived for years without cell phones, so to act as if you can’t live without it for a few hours is ludicrous.”
Yep. There is choice involved with this, and this has nothing to do with government. If I walk through the mall wearing a bright red tutu and sporting a gun on my hip, I’m going to be noticed. Screaming about “But it’s my privacy! I shouldn‘t have to take off my tutu and conceal my gun if I don’t want to!” is a non-sequitur. Naturally you dont’ have to take those things off, but if you don’t, you’re going to be noticed by *your own choice*. It all comes back to individuals choosing what they will or will not allow to be noticed in the public sphere.
Report Post »mikem1969
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:54amSomebody is watching, would you look at them. LOL. I don’t go to malls any more, to many freaks at them.
Report Post »PPMStudios
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:38am… and now it begins….
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:48amWhat begins?
Ever see those “traffic pattern monitor” people that are sometimes placed on an intersection to tick off the number of cars that pass by a given intersection (they exist in central Ohio, not sure if this is a local thing or not). Some guy in a car, with one of those click counters in his hand, right? That’s all this is, electronically. When the guy clicks the counter when I drive by, he receives nothing about me that identifies me, he simply sees “car, count 1″. And again, that’s all this is. The mall no more knows anything about you because your phone is picked up by their antenna and a “click” is made, than I do by noting that you’re on the phone when I pass by you in the mall.
Remember, the only people who can link your phones chip numbers to you are the phone company. From what I read, no data is being saved with this action, ergo, no identification can be done by the mall.
Report Post »Micmac
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 1:20pm@ Ghost
The traffic counters have been used for at least 50 years. The purpose of them is that the speed limit of a specific street is set on the amount of traffic flow. Had a close friend that actually did this as a job and used to increase the counts so the street speed limits would be raised. Pretty funny at the time.
NoBama 2012
Report Post »Reboot Washington
COFemale
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:26amTurn off the phone or leave it in the car when you shop. The other is leave the phone on and go into every store in the mall to skew the data.
Frankly, I think this is an invasion of privacy and their claim in tracking shopping habits, is ludicrous.
Maybe I can plant a camera in your bedroom and watch your sleeping habits; after all I what to see what situations prevent you from getting a good nights sleep. Don’t worry I am not using it for nefarious reasons and if I capture you having sex, no worries, there is no chance it could get posted out to You Tube.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:37amInvasion of privacy requires personal identifying information to be discovered. What identifying information is uncovered by this?
Report Post »Countrygirl1362
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:58amThe government has been doing this for years, just now have retailers figured out how to profit from it. You don’t want to be feel invaded, get rid of your cell phone.
Report Post »LostInWashington
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 5:16pmTake out the sex and YouTube and it sounds like the sleep study I did.
Report Post »ChiefGeorge
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:14amWhat a good cover! Its BS though! What they want to track is the flash mobs so the merchandise can be tracked down.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:46amIf that is the real reason .. then I would have no problem with it .. frankly as packed as the mall would be I don’t see how this would be “practical” so I think you are on to something .. hopefully those with bad intentions won’t have the smarts to shut off their phones.
For others .. take your phone .. shut it off … if you are shopping with friends have a certain time you will turn it back on to “catch up” with them should you get separated.
Report Post »chips1
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:08pmWhy don’t they just set up cameras and take pictures of groups of people and if a flash mob invades a store, they can go thru the pictures and identify the shoplifters? The pictures would be better if they are taken before the crime and before the hoods are pulled over their heads.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:22pmI would think that they would use both .. cameras and the phone tracking .. doesn’t have to be one or another… I want these little thugs caught .. they cost us all more!
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:05amOne more move quietly implemented by Big Sister.
Report Post »SLARTIBARTFAST
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:13am“It’s just not invasive of privacy,” she said. “There are no risks to privacy, so I don’t see why anyone would opt out.”
Not this week anyway. Next week? Next year? They’ve planted those microchips in our heads already. You know, the ones that people wearing tinfoil hats have been warning us about? They’re called cell phones.
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:17amHow about RFID chips they are putting in our tires.
Report Post »They can follow our every move.
EgoBrain
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:26amI wrapped my wallet and cell pocket, with tin foil. Hope it helps, but I dunno.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:33amIt’s a private institution, and your phone is in fact giving off signals into the public sphere that anybody can pick up (and not identify you with explicitly). They’re not listening to your calls (can’t, encrypted), just noting anonymous signals are gathered more at store X than store Y, it doesn’t seem to indicate any identifying information is being tracked.
And the solution is simple, turn off the phone. Why people think they need a 24/7 leash on them is beyond me. It’s their right to do so, don’t get me wrong, but then you open yourself up to these kinds of things. I am more and more realizing that a lot of freedom is found in divesting oneself of things that require electricity.
I don’t text, never have, and I rarely carry my cell phone and even more rarely have it on, it ticks people off a bit, but hey, when I go out to the gym or out with one of my buddies, I’m completely anonymous, untraceable, my conversations are mine and mine alone, my work cannot summon me, and I‘m not at the rest of the world’s beck and call. If cops want to follow me, they have to do it in person, and if companies want to track me, they have to walk up and ask me information face to face. I am completely in control of most my world when I turn off the electronics. Now that’s freedom!
Report Post »EgoBrain
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:42amOk. I envy you Ghost.
I’m going to try your methods. Luck to me.
Report Post »skitrees
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 11:43amGhostofJefferson:
Of course the government would never actually use a combined use of technology to, for example, cross index the location map with a still frame from a security video to track the movements of a non-anonymous individual, right? And…I suppose nobody that had access to this type of information could use it for BAD purposes, right? I mean, what use would a killer have in knowing exactly where his victim (ex-wife maybe/girlfriend/boyfried) goes each time he or she comes to the mall? I agree – nothing to worry about here. However, I do agree with your idea of leaving it off, in the car, or at home.
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:03pm@Skitres
This isn’t about government, it’s about a private enterprise that you choose to walk into voluntarily, with your phone volutarily on. You control everything about this situation. Either don’t shop at places that do this, or leave the phone in the car (my recommendation).
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:14pmFrom what I have heard there putting the RF chips into everything,
Report Post »that includes shoes to. They used “tagging” in gun-powder, back in the 90′s
I wouldn’t be surprised, If they use the same kind of tracking in ammo,and
wonder about the Rf chip built-in into new firearms
They dont have a certain person tied to the product ,that I know of.
They follow the movement of that product,even cereal boxes.
Being a ghost is going to become harder and harder.
GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:20pm@Sawbuck
RFID chips do not give off a signal that can be read beyond a foot or two. How can they track you with RFID chips in your tires, assuming that they’re not standing 1 to 2-ish feet away?
Report Post »Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:37pm@Ghost
Report Post »Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:44pm@Ghost
Report Post »You are probably close in age to me. We survived growing up not having a cell phone on us 24/7. I find having a cell phone annoying, sometimes, because I don’t want to be bothered and people either keep calling me or texting me. I have an older cell phone and am resisting upgrading to a smartphone, because I don’t want to be tracked. It is funny to see old shows on tv and the people get along just fine without cellphones. they wait until they can get to a pay phone (what’s that? :-) or when they get home. It’s nice and convenient to be able to call or get a message wherever you are at, but not a necessity.
sawbuck
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:47pm@ghost
Report Post »I guess I should have explained it better.
I used “RF”CHIP as a generic term,
Just like a scanner at the store that scans food.
If a parking garage with such a scanning device at the entrance and exit.
or any place they want to install it
Or any place like .a toll road e-z pass or a hand held device.
We are putting tracking devices in animals .
and its not a strech to see the applications and possibilities.
I dont have a tin foil hat on. but I dont trust our GOV. either.
GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 12:50pm@Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Exactly. People have every right to buy any ol’ technology they want, but they onus is on them to understand the limits of their privacy when they do so. Might as well complain because amateur radio folks can triangulate a CB signal when a mouthy trucker gets on the CB and starts mouthing off. Hey, public airwaves, let the buyer beware. Until we find a way to do long distance communication without using radio waves, or copper wires, this is the hand we’re dealt and we should act and react accordingly.
Personally I really don’t get why people want this kind of thing. I have the same thoughts about things like Twitter. Folks insist on living “in public” and then complain when it‘s pointed out that they’re living “in public” and other private parties “in public” notice them. Makes no sense.
Report Post »skitrees
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 1:04pm@Ghostofjefferson
Yeah, because private companies are NEVER forced to give up private information, right? I mean, phone records are locked in a box that the gov can’t reach, right? Private e-mails too? And GPS coordinates…I mean, you’re right…I’ve seen the error of my thinking – there’s just NO possible way government can ever use any private company information. I‘m sure my medical information will NEVER leave my doctor’s office either, right? (You HAVE been alive during this past decade, right?)
Report Post »GhostOfJefferson
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 2:18pm@Skitrees
If that’s the world you live in, that’s your choice. They are not recording the numbers, read the article. If you think that’s a lie, that’s fine, but you might as well stay in your home and never walk outside if that’s your level of fear. Personally, if I were that scared of “maybe might possibly” like you are, but I wanted to shop, I’d leave the cell phone in the car or at home. It’s not that big a deal.
Report Post »skitrees
Posted on November 23, 2011 at 10:14pm@Ghostofjefferson:
This will be my last post on this topic (1. Because it’s too long already, and 2. Because you are projecting your own assumptions onto me – which makes conversation difficult).
Daily, I have to help people who’ve had their security, privacy, and lives violated by folks who either trick them into offering information, or by people who have had their personal data stolen from them. Sometimes it is from criminals in the US – sometimes from governments/criminals overseas. If you want to continue to be naive and believe this information will stay with the company who holds it – go ahead. I won’t even mention the hacks of the UN e-mails, the endless credit card hacks, playstation, xbox, Pentagon, power stations, or water pumps…well, I guess I did just mention them, sorry.
As I mentioned before, it is quite easy to cross-index one or more forms of “harmless” information to make it suddenly dangerous. I also mentioned that I agreed with you about leaving the phone off, in the car, or at home. If someone knows your name – who cares. If someone knows your name, address, and credit card info – that’s a different story. It doesn’t matter whether the crooks get this info from one source or compile it from several – the end product is what matters. If your boyfriend wants to kill you, the info from these malls would be invaluable, especially cross-indexed with a video still showing who you were, and what times you frequent the mall.
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