US

Update: Group Behind Fake GE Press Release Has Radical Ties — Planning Mass Protests

They were shocking images last month. Uncontrolled youth staged mass austerity protests, demonstrations, and lashed out in violence. In the middle of it all was a radical group called UK Uncut, which organized a mass sit-in and “occupied” a luxury grocer.

Update: Group Behind Fake GE Press Release Has Radical Ties Planning Mass Protests

So what if we told you that UK Uncut has spread to the U.S.? It’s true. There’s now a group called US Uncut devoted to protesting budget cuts on this side of the pond. One of their first big moves? They’re the ones behind the fake General Electric press release that duped the Associated Press. And that’s just the beginning of what they have planned. This weekend, they take to the streets.

Update: Group Behind Fake GE Press Release Has Radical Ties Planning Mass Protests

An excerpt from US Uncut's "about" section.

“At a time when working families are being asked to accept massive cuts nationwide, this action showed another way the world could work,” US Uncut spokesperson Carl Gibson said in a press release about the GE scam. “For a brief moment people believed that the biggest corporate tax dodger had a change of heart and actually did the right thing. But the only way anything like this is really going to happen is if we change the laws that allow corporate tax avoidance in the first place.”

But duping press agencies doesn’t seem to be what gave the group its biggest high. Rather, it seems that the effect the fake release had on the company’s stock — which eerily imitates Stephen Lerner’s economic terrorism plan — is what got the group really excited. See, during the time the fake release was believed to be real, GE’s stock took a hit. US Uncut bragged about it:

In the period the hoax was believed, GE’s stock plunged by .6% (far more than the value of the supposed return), then quickly recovered as soon as it became apparent the press had been duped. “Obviously, GE can’t possibly be expected to do the right thing voluntarily; their stock would keep plunging,” noted Gibson. “That’s why we must change the law.”

According to the group’s website, fake press releases are just the beginning. It’s currently organizing mass protests across the country for the April 15 tax-day weekend — this weekend. It boasts the number will reach nearly 100:

Update: Group Behind Fake GE Press Release Has Radical Ties Planning Mass Protests

“In the wake of a satirical media prank on GE with help from the Yes Men, US Uncut is planning a weekend of nearly 100 Tax Day actions between April 15th and April 18th,” the group said in a press release. “The group makes a direct connection between recently announced budget cuts and a corporate culture of tax evasion.”

While all sings indicate the protests are planned to be peaceful (and the group says it advocates non-violence), considering the group’s roots, might there be cause for concern?

Consider this: the group has already marched with communists, as reported by the communist online webzine People’s Word. The outlet posted this video:

Chicago Jobs w Justice Unemployment Protest 4-1-11 from Scott Marshall on Vimeo.

And when the the founder of the group’s parent organization, UK Uncut, was asked about the actions of his protesters in London, he responded that while the group certainly doesn’t advocate violence, he cannot control what others decide to do. Aw shucks:

Mr Costello tells his followers they can ‘peacefully and non-violently’ shut down stores by sitting in them, rather than smashing them up.

But ultimately he cannot control what they do. Observers at Fortnum & Mason said some of the activists there were menacing, clad in black and threatening customers, while others daubed anarchist symbols on the walls.

Additionally, an article in Frances Fox Piven’s favorite outlet, The Nation, coaches organizers on how to establish US Uncut, and it contains some ominous instructions. Author Johann Hari uses language such as “identify a tax dodger to target,“ ”determine the best way to shut it down,“ and then ”shut down the target.” Also, “aim to have shutdowns arranged in as many cities as possible,” and when you’re done with one, “do it again” but “bigger.”

100 protests in a single weekend sure seems to be in line with those orders. We’ll see if they mirror London.

Comments (71)

1 2
  • Toodumtu
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 1:19pm

    ABC

    Yur braying about corporations being an important source of tax revenue. How the hell with G.E. parking 11 billion in profit, offshore, and not paying any tax, be an important source of tax revenue?? What with yu and yur ilk lobbying for the very laws that allow this to happen, it’s no wonder this nation is headed for the city of Broke. Yur so wrapped up with yur socialistic thinking it’s any wonder ya can even fart.

    Report Post »  
  • matt708
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 1:13pm

    if they start and break one thing throw them in jail and let them rot there

    Report Post »  
  • miles from nowhere
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 12:58pm

    This is not a surprise, it is another part of the communist marxist movement in the US.

    Report Post »  
  • beaubird
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 12:43pm

    Let them do it in Texas, they will hog tie them and think nothing of it!!! Bring it on!!!!!!!!!!

    Report Post »  
  • Michael
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 12:19pm

    I would like to see what the other news media has to say about Glenn’s predictions and what they report. They will never admit that Glenn was right, for them, that’s a sign of defeat. All of the bad mouthing of Glenn that has been going on has done nothing but stir up people. Is that what the goal of that is? When will this country start wising up? Most of us are getting tired of what the government is doing. Why can’t people see it? It is there, right in front of us. Hopefully it isn’t too late.

    Report Post »  
  • APatriotFirst
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 11:50am

    Since there is a tax day get together this year with REAL Americans, and also this idiot group…..people need to make sure they don’t get infiltrated by this group.

    Report Post »  
  • Cosmic Ray
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 11:46am

    I was reading some of the UK’s news articles on UK Uncut and they reported that there were two groups of protesters, anarchists and UK Uncut, and that it was the anarchists causing all the trouble.

    While this is probably true, I find it an odd coincidence that they both happened to converge on the same day. I wouldn’t put it past the backers of this movement to have two types of protests.

    By the way, US Uncut is sort of backed by Soro’s moveon.org organization:

    Irvine, CA, Mon Apr 18th 2011 Facebook event »
    Added on Thu Apr 14th 2011, 9:22am UTC — last updated Thu Apr 14th 2011, 9:36am UTC
    IRVINE CA, Mon Apr 18th 2011 APRIL 18 4:30PM-7:00PM “TAX DAY: MAKE THEM PAY” EVENT
    LOCATION: BANK OF AMERICA – 18622 MacArthur Boulevard, Irvine CA 92612 (just at the southeast corner of MacArthur & Michelson) across from Orange County Airport.
    “This event is sponsored by MoveOn South Orange County and many other organizations!”
    http://usuncut.org/actions/362

    MoveOn Council Meeting
    Heritage Park Library, 14361 Yale Avenue (Map), Irvine, CA 92604 Saturday, April 16th, 12:00 PM
    Let’s keep the momentum going! Please sign up for this gathering right away!
    Message from your host, Ron V.: Hello Council,
    The organizing meeting on 4/3 went well. We prepared for a large “Tax Day: Make Them Pay” rally set for Tax Day, April 18, 4:30-7:00pm right outside of Bank of America branch at 18622 MacArthur Boulevard, Irvine CA 92612 (just at the southeast corner of MacArthur & Michelson).
    http://pol.moveon.org/event/events/event.html?event_id=114415

    Report Post »  
  • kedward
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 11:18am

    When will uncut go after the rich Nancy pelosi, the rich Michael Moore, the rich Al Gore, the rich Obama…..

    Report Post »  
    • ccr
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 11:46am

      ……….rich George Soros………..who wants the “managed decline of the dollar’ ??? Not to mention collapsed economies of 4-5 countries and loved the revolutions he’s been able to instigate…..

      Report Post »  
  • DagnyT
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 10:55am

    Did you know there is also a Canada Uncut. Wonder who is actually funding this group?

    Report Post »  
  • bhscpa
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 10:50am

    My thoughts exactly!

    Report Post »  
  • ccr
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 10:37am

    Add your comments

    Report Post »  
  • JEANNIEMAC
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 10:22am

    The boss of the AFL/CIO, Trumka, has been in close contact with the Community Organizer-in-Chief, Obama. He visited the White House many times and was given his instructions by the head organizer. Orders were sent to all the unions, giving dates, times and places to meet and march. The book, “Rules for Radicals, by the communist, Saul Alinsky, were distributed by the thousands to these groups. The workers are being used by the radical left to bring down the government to have Obama declare martial law and suspend elections. Keep your powder dry.

    Report Post »  
  • Mothers Of The World Unite
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 10:14am

    The radical left is pushing hard to create chaos. I’m not biting.

    Report Post » Mothers Of The World Unite  
  • bedspirit
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:53am

    I don’t see the problem with US Uncut. While they may be run by left leaning people, many of their ideas are neither left or right. I‘m sure all you Free Market scholars on here realize that you can’t have a free market when some companies have to pay taxes while other do not. Also, if the fact that your tax dollars going to NPR and Planned Parenthoor ****** you off, then how do you feel about your tax dollars going to Bank of America and GE?

    Report Post »  
    • ccr
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 10:49am

      You must love Alinsky……..and get thrills up your leg when Obama speaks, too……

      Report Post »  
    • DagnyT
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 11:17am

      How about putting the blame where it actually belongs, with the government and the IRS. These companies follow the tax code that gives them these breaks. But what they do with the money they don’t pay in taxes is their business and not ours. The tax code needs to be changed.

      Report Post »  
    • Michael
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 12:35pm

      The problem is not with GE or Planned Parent Hood. It is with the crooked politicians that we put in office. Actions against them doesn’t call for US-uncut or any other progressive organization to cause havoc for the American people. What it calls for is for the average citizen to quit be influenced by free gifts from the government to bribe them into voting for them. Our mistake is believing that there are people out there that actually believe in the country and what it stands for. Capitalism is a good idea but we have just put the wrong people in government and they have abused it with their greed and has destroyed a lot of people. It not capitalism that doing it, it is our government. We don’t need traitorous organizations like the uncuts to tell us what to do. They are filled with people who absolutely have plans for destroying our country. Just stay the hell away from us. God Bless America.

      Report Post »  
    • ccr
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 1:45pm

      @michael…………good comments! Corrupt politicians for years have rewarded or despised with the tax code (while ignoring the taxes themselves: ie, Geithner, Rangel).

      Greed in corporations exist ……….just like it does in government! Unless we as individuals have MORAL DISCIPLINE, there cannot be enough laws to preserve our liberty and the potential of capitalism! Capitalism and entrepreneurial spirit sets America apart from other countries.

      Report Post »  
  • ready_with_the_camping_food
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:50am

    Sure wish I could get to the Oklahoma City meet-up. Sure would like to be a counter protester!

    Report Post » ready_with_the_camping_food  
    • bedspirit
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:55am

      And do what? They protest against companies that exploit loopholes in order to get tax refunds from your tax dollars. Are you going to protest in favor of that?

      Report Post »  
    • ccr
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 10:44am

      @bedspirit……………why don’t you add protesting the corruption of the UNIONS which bankrupt companies, states and donate MILLIONs and MILLIONS to promote Democrats who will keep their gig going???

      I hope GE (Obama‘s special corp that also owned Obama’s NBC/MSNBC networks during the last election and past couple of years) is on the TOP OF YOUR corrupt corporations! And Goldman Sachs that has NUMEROUS ties to Obama and received LOTS from our tax dollars misused in the stimulus fiascos.

      What about Buffet’s businesses………..Soros’ businesses?? Wouldn’t we love to see what THEY did with taxes?!?!! It would be foolish to think THOSE guys didn’t look for and get every taxhole loop they could!!

      Just saying……….just to be fair……

      Report Post »  
    • mrclean
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 3:33pm

      Bottom line, the fat cat corporations, by exploiting existing tax loopholes authored by the IRS, DON’T pay their huge tax bill and possibly use those tax billions for bonuses, while we the average lowly tax payer have no loopholes and get kicked in the teeth & practically threatened with debtors prison if we don’t pay up. As always, corruption and love of money is the root of the problem.

      Just add this abuse to the vast and growing list of attrocities committed by our government against we the people. The fed government needs to SHRINK MASSIVELY and, by God almighty, it will when we put the correct person in the whitehouse. And pray that we have the wisdom to pick the correct one.

      Report Post » mrclean  
  • hightide
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:40am

    Union thugs, socialists, and communists. They all want more for doing less (nothing). My tax dollars do not belong to you. Why is it ok for you to demand that you get something for nothing? WAKE UP AMERICA. And so it starts, here.

    Report Post »  
  • FANGS
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:24am

    Be careful, We have our guns loaded here.

    Report Post »  
    • bedspirit
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 10:01am

      You’re going shoot people on behalf of tax cheating corporations? If you’re a corporate whore, that’s cool. Times are tough. You are getting paid right? Don‘t tell me you’re defending Bank of America, GE, Verizon, and Citigroup for free. In South America corporations hire thugs to do their dirty work. In America, they can just mislead people into doing it for nothing!

      Report Post »  
  • warveteran
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:17am

    Here come the Marxists. Beck, again, is right.

    Report Post »  
  • UlyssesP
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:07am

    Ok. When you hear that this is grass roots, blah blah, and not Soros funded…remember this…
    Naples, FL, Mon Apr 18th 2011
    TAX DAY PROTEST: MAKE THEM PAY
    Contact details
    Karen Dwyer, Ph.D. and John P. Dwyer, Ph.D. dwyerka@gmail.com for MoveOn.org

    How does someone go about getting a moveon.org email address?

    Report Post » UlyssesP  
  • EqualJustice
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:03am

    TODAY- APRIL 15TH TAX DAY TEA PARTIES AROUND THE COUNRTY. Let’s show them how to do it right. Get out there in numbers in your state, people. :) CONCORD NH STATE house.. noon I’ll be there.

    Report Post » EqualJustice  
  • Cherynn
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 8:59am

    I think it is going to be a very interesting summer. Hold on to your hats folks.

    Report Post » Cherynn  
    • mrclean
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 3:10pm

      Pepto Bismol stock will explode between now and Nov. 2012

      Report Post » mrclean  
  • EqualJustice
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 8:57am

    You know what you need to do BLAZE? Set up a facebook page called “BECK WAS RIGHT” so we can keep up with the accuracy of all his predictions. He and his staff did a great job of investigating. MAYBE TOO GOOD?

    Report Post » EqualJustice  
    • ccr
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 10:34am

      That’s a great idea!! Accurately post the list going back as far as possible!

      Another good facebook page……..“Flip flops of Obama” and “What I Say and What I Do”. Neither one would have to be uncivil………just use his OWN WORDS and supporting reports from even the left media which would be even better!

      Report Post »  
  • UlyssesP
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 8:56am

    I bet less than 15 people show up to this one. Not including bused in union tools.

    Join us in Fort Lauderdale at Bank of America, 901 SE 17th St, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316 to tell corporations and politicians “No more cuts until corporate tax cheats pay up.” The event is from 5 p.m. to 6:30 p.m.
    Contact details:Niomi Devereux (305-332-5051) and Connie Lynd (954-496-6941)

    Report Post » UlyssesP  
    • EqualJustice
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 8:58am

      Let’s ALL give them a quick call? What do you say? :)

      Report Post » EqualJustice  
    • demint.disciple
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:03am

      Im flying down, be with ya in a few hours… Stop with the spam idiot, this is a news site not your personal facebook page..

      Report Post » one years food ration like glenn says  
    • EqualJustice
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:04am

      Who are you talking to and why would a conservative want to protest with the revolutionaries??

      Report Post » EqualJustice  
    • UlyssesP
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:09am

      @demint.disciple
      What?
      Too early for you? Wait until your meds kick in before posting. Thanks.

      Report Post » UlyssesP  
  • EqualJustice
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 8:54am

    I feel so bad for OUR OWN policemen. This left uses them when they need UNION support and then TURNS on them and makes them the enemy in their socialist revolution. God help them and I hope they know which PARTY is really on the side of JUSTICE, LAW AND ORDER and will back up good cops 100% They don’t need collective bargaining OR mandatory Union dues. We’ll take care of them!!!

    Report Post » EqualJustice  
    • teddrunk
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:15am

      I used to support police. Then I saw how they shirked their duty and sided with the human excrement that ruined my state capitol. They are no better than the anarchist they support. Crooked cops.

      Report Post »  
    • EqualJustice
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:36am

      Notice I said GOOD cops. You can’t say they are all crooked. The left does that enough. The thugs who go along with UNION orders are the BAD cops…

      Report Post » EqualJustice  
  • NOBALONEY
    Posted on April 15, 2011 at 8:54am

    Glenn warned us. They’re here. “jobs for justice” in english, and spanish.

    Report Post » NOBALONEY  
    • joe conservative
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 8:58am

      Yes he did warn us. And the MSM mocked him for it. Everyday it seems there is another radical group popping up in America. The MSM calls the Tea Party radical, yet they seem to have no problem with these groups. That alone says a great deal about our media. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myECZFA0iHI This video shows how this is unfolding.

      Report Post » joe conservative  
    • Wilma
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:09am

      He warned us many months ago during the riots in Greece.

      Report Post » Wilma  
    • grandmaof5
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:11am

      I say we welcome them with open arms, a zip tie to the wrists, jail time, huge fines, court costs and a trip back to where ever they came from. We need to show them we don’t put up with their crap! Now do I think this will happen, maybe in some states. I notice they aren’t going to TX or midwest. I urge FL to take a hard line or this will embolden them to further action.

      Report Post »  
    • UlyssesP
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:14am

      That would be Yobs forrr Yustice in spanglish.

      Report Post » UlyssesP  
    • SLR Cameras
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:21am

      I remember when he warned us and now the time is here. What a scary time we live in.

      Report Post »  
    • BetterDays
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:25am

      I’ve had a brain storm ( and it hurt ! )!
      Let’s us their own infrastructure against them by setting up a phantom “tax dodge” protest site.
      Say at Brenton Wooods, since that particular establishment like to host unAmerician activities anyway. A reasonably competent hacker ( calling all hackers) could compromise their web site and list a new Protest at a bogus site. This protest could be a fictitious meeting of the “G8 of tax dodger”. GE, BP, Haliburton, Boeing, McDonald Douglas, IBM, MicroSoft, and Shell oil. A fake news release stating that a secret meeting of these corporations has been called and that the agenda is to Marshall these corporate forces to combat the rise in radical protestations by bring economic pressure on government and communities to force a counter action against the radical groups.
      A general call to combine protest groups at this “secret” meeting could also be issued.
      It would be hilarious if a protest broke out with no target.

      Report Post »  
    • GEW
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:49am

      And this is why we will miss Glenn from TV. I am afraid most of us learned about this from watching his program on TV. I wonder why there is no activity in TEXAS?

      GEW  
    • expatinontariocanada
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 9:58am

      “What does a communist look like? Mr. Gibson, et. al., are what COMMUNISTS look like!”

      Report Post » expatinontariocanada  
    • drago
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 10:07am

      @Grandmaof5
      If they have an ounce of brains, they wont show their faces in Texas……..And going to Oklahoma,not a smart move on their part….

      Report Post »  
    • Sgt.Crust
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 10:17am

      Sorry, it was the gov’t and unions that made this mess by mandating everyone in the country own a home. They picketed just like this to force banks to make bad loans, or face a boycott or worse. The CRA of 1977 started this whole mess, if you are intellectually honest about it. Sure there was also greed by banks too…but not all the blame lies there! Communists, progressives, liberals, etc beware…keep up the treason, and you will face the music!

      Report Post »  
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 10:42am

      So now they accelerate their movement, seeking to cause as much chaos as possible; there most likely will be an intensifying of the matters to the day of May 15-16 when the debt ceiling is hit unless something changes. These people will not stop until they collapse it all, or go down fighting when the people of the land move back against them.

      Either way, this is one more point of pressure the administration wants. As they say, never let a good energency go to waste…and economic terrorism will be a great one for their needs to close the nation down for good.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • LAMET
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 10:51am

      @GEW
      Gun Owners!
      they know WHEN they start the violence and WE KNOW they WILL.

      They have to deal with Patriotic GUN OWNERS with concealed carry permits.

      Report Post »  
    • Marylou7
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 11:01am

      Well, America asked for it by electing a marxist to the Presidency.

      Report Post » Marylou7  
    • Anonymous T. Irrelevant
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 11:11am

      Yes, they live smong us. You can tell what most of them believe just by looking at them, but you’d be surprised by the brainwashing of some of them.
      My daughter is graduating high school and I am trying to prepare her for the onslaught of socialist transformation she will encounter. At least, she is a Christian, but that will just make it worse for her. Those Bible-Christian hating communists will tear her apart. I told her to just keep that to herself.

      Report Post » Anonymous T. Irrelevant  
    • GODSAMERICA
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 12:04pm

      “Obviously, GE can’t possibly be expected to do the right thing voluntarily; their stock would keep plunging,” noted Gibson. “That’s why we must change the law.”
      Obviously, US uncut can’t possibly be expected to do the right thing voluntarily ever; that’s why we must change the law!!!

      Report Post » GODSAMERICA  
    • PA PATRIOT
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 12:21pm

      Lamet and GEW
      Gun toting, Bible clinging patriots with carry permits in PA too.
      Lets build our own brig to house these nuts! Surrounded by a moat filled with tar and feathers.

      Report Post » PA PATRIOT  
    • OutOfTheAether
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 12:22pm

      @GEW
      Because Texans carry guns!

      Report Post » OutOfTheAether  
    • abc
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 12:32pm

      Here’s the baloney:

      The media (including Beck) focuses on attacking the messenger and capitalizes on the bizarre story of fraud and duping reporters and the like. But they miss the FACTS, which are not in dispute. And the FACTS are what the voters need to understand if they are going to be able to vote on ratinale policies to move the country forward. (If you disagree with the last two sentences, then there is little help for you here.)

      The FACTS are these:

      1. Corporations are an important source of tax revenue for every major country in the world, including the United States

      2. The proper way to measure the contribution of any tax-paying group, including corporations, is to look at their contribution as a percentage of GDP (the measure of domestic production in an economy)

      3. The tax revenue raised from corporations in the US as a percentage of GDP has declined from more than 6% before Reagan took office to around 2% today, as companies have taken advantage of (and lobbied mightily for) massive tax loopholes to avoid paying them.

      4. The official tax rate for corporations in the US, which many correctly note is the highest or second highest in the world at 35%, is not paid by most any companies with enough means to pay accountants to find the loopholes and/or pay lobbyists to win those loopholes. Hence, citing the stated rate is misleading.

      5. The effective tax rate that teh average US corporation is actually paying is below the average of the OECD countries, which means that corporations are actually paying below average rates versus their competitiors in other developed or even developing nations.

      6. The solution to this problem, which both the left and the right in principle can agree upon, is to lower statutory rates to the OECD average, close the loopholes that cause the effective rates to be lower than this, and thus to increase corporate tax collection receipts as a percentage of GDP back to more normal levels. This would help address about one-quarter to one-third of the current structural deficit.

      I work in the financial markets and read countless transcripts and filings of US companies describing their efforts to lower the tax bill through loopholes, so I know what I am talking about. And while no one knows exactly what GEs actual tax bill with the IRS was except the parties involved, this is merely a sideshow. What is important is that people understand the aggregate data and what the policy options are. I have presented the facts and what I think the conensus option is, but I am open to hearing alternate views.

      But I really am tired of listening to info-tainment comments by people who have not bothered to learn even the basic facts. Those folks ought to be ashamed that they will be voting with taxes as a key informing issue, but they know precious little about the topic. That is criminal negligence in my mind. Learn the facts before you vote. The info-tainment is fun, but it really doesn’t help us make good decisions as voters in a democracy. Do your part. Learn. Think. Make informed choices.

      Report Post »  
    • Docrow
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 1:25pm

      @GEW

      cause us Texans would kickm’ out ;-)

      Report Post » Docrow  
    • Jimbo49
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 2:19pm

      ABC
      Typical leftist arguement. Make a series of statements as “facts”. From those “facts”, the logical conclusions are few. But, if one of the given “facts” are questionable, the whole arguement falls apart.
      2. The proper way to measure……, who says? Sounds like opinion to me. Ratios, and percentages, rely on more than one figure. Why GDP, and not GNP? How have these measures changed over the same period? How have other changes in the economy affected these ratios? No one thing occurs in a vaccuum. Pulling one number out of something as complex as our economy, and looking at it by itself, is very simplistic, and designed to support a conclusion, that was probably arrived at first. (Yes, that’s opinion. But, I won’t pretend its fact.)
      Lobbyists bribe legislators, regulators, administrators, party bosses, etc. to get the best deal for their bosses. Yet, only the lobbyists are criticized. If the politicians were not for sale, those doing the buying, wouldn’t have a job.
      The cost of producing any product or service, is born completely by the final consumer of that product or service. It doesn’t matter whether that cost was material, labor, overhead, bribe, or tax. It is always passed through to the final consumer. Raising the tax on a corporation, ultimately increases the price of the product or service supplied by that corporation. The lowly consumer picks up the tab.

      Report Post »  
    • abc
      Posted on April 15, 2011 at 5:36pm

      Jimbo,

      You wrote: “”Typical leftist arguement. Make a series of statements as “facts”. From those “facts”, the logical conclusions are few. But, if one of the given “facts” are questionable, the whole arguement falls apart.”

      Now, it’s a typical argument here to disregard the facts without proof if they are inconvenient to a partisan narrative you would like to cling to. Please state which facts are wrong or admit that they kind of destroy the typical conservative claim that US companies are paying taxes that are too high. This is not very hard stuff here. Oh, and even if one fact is wrong (although you haven’t even proven that) it doesn’t necessarily mean that the entire argument is wrong. If I say that Saddam Hussein had WMDs under Baghdad and they were actually outside of Baghdad, that is a difference without a distinction and that “false” fact doesn’t destroy the argument. Do you even know how to logically reason??

      You also wrote:

      “2. The proper way to measure……, who says? Sounds like opinion to me. Ratios, and percentages, rely on more than one figure. Why GDP, and not GNP?”

      Easy. Because GNP would include IBM’s revenues generated in a foreign tax district, which by function of tax treaties should not be paid to the US. You really didn’t know that? And you claim to know better than me how to study this?? Please…

      You continue: “How have these measures changed over the same period?”

      I already explained that.

      “How have other changes in the economy affected these ratios?”

      No changes in the economy can explain such a dramatic drop other than a large increase in loopholes being exploited by business, which as a special interest gets its way much more than 40 years ago.

      “No one thing occurs in a vaccuum. Pulling one number out of something as complex as our economy, and looking at it by itself, is very simplistic, and designed to support a conclusion, that was probably arrived at first. (Yes, that’s opinion. But, I won’t pretend its fact.)”

      Okay, genius. Company sales and profits grow with GDP but their taxes, which is another line item on the P&L statement do not, making the real rates paid lower. How can that be, if not for loopholes?? This is not simplistic, but it also isn’t difficult to understand. And there aren’t any magical answers that I am avoiding. You are choosing to remain ignorant or really are. Either way, you are missing the only answer: companies are not paying their historical share.

      “Lobbyists bribe legislators, regulators, administrators, party bosses, etc. to get the best deal for their bosses. Yet, only the lobbyists are criticized. If the politicians were not for sale, those doing the buying, wouldn’t have a job.”

      I blame the corporations, their paid lobbyists and the politicians for this mess. Actually, I wasn’t blaming anyone, but merely pointing out the facts. People can decide who to blame. But they ought to at least know the facts. You claim my facts are wrong or opinions or present an incomplete picture, but you do not provide an alternative explanation. This is beyond inadequate.

      “The cost of producing any product or service, is born completely by the final consumer of that product or service. It doesn’t matter whether that cost was material, labor, overhead, bribe, or tax. It is always passed through to the final consumer. Raising the tax on a corporation, ultimately increases the price of the product or service supplied by that corporation. The lowly consumer picks up the tab.”

      Actually, I’ve heard that canard a million times before since the GOP pundits and politicians love to say it. But tell me then, why is Coca cola not passing on higher input costs right now but instead choosing to take lower margins rather than pass on the costs and risk losing market share? See, the reality doesn’t always fit the story. And we know that corporate profits are at a 60 year high, so there is an opportunity for the companies to pay the extra tax and not raise the price of the products or services.

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