VA High School Agrees to Remove 10 Commandments in Settlement With ACLU
- Posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:53am by
Billy Hallowell
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It seems the saga, at least for the time being, over a framed version of the Ten Commandments at Narrows High School in Narrows, Virginia, has come to a close. In May, The Blaze first reported about the intriguing case, during which federal Judge Michael Urbanski suggested that four commandments be removed to ensure there are no conflicts between church and state. Now, it seems the school has abandoned its fight to keep the image on display.
The Los Angeles Times has more about the compromise that has been struck between the American Civil Liberties Union and the Giles County School Board:
A framed copy of the Ten Commandments that had been on display at a Virginia public high school will be replaced by a page from a history textbook depicting the commandment tablets and highlighting their role in the “roots of democracy.”
The swap is being made under a proposed settlement of a lawsuit that contended displaying the text of the commandments violated the Constitutional requirement for separation of church and state. [...]
The textbook page, titled “Roots of Democracy,” depicts the tablets, followed by the statement: “The values found in the Bible, including the Ten Commandments and the teachings of Jesus, inspired American ideas about government and morality.” The page mentions other influences on America, such as the Magna Carta and ancient Greek democracy.
Both sides seem content with the final decision. Rebecca Glenberg, the legal director of the ACLU of Virginia, reports that her clients are happy and that the removal of the document will “make the Giles County public schools a much more welcome place.”
Mathew D. Staver, founder of the Liberty Counsel and a legal representative of the school board, echoed these sentiments. He said that the continued inclusion of the Biblical tenets ”shows the development of law and government and continues to retain the Ten Commandments as part of that history.”
The background of this particular situation is interesting. The ACLU filed the initial lawsuit on behalf of a student (who, along with his or her family will remain anonymous, as per a judge’s order) who wanted to see the display removed. The basis of the complaint was familiar: The presence, those opposed to it contend, illustrates a government endorsement of religion and is, thus, unconstitutional.
The debate over the presence of the Ten Commandments began back in 2010 when the Freedom From Religion Foundation first received complaints about it. Inevitably, the ACLU got involved. After the initial grievances surrounding the Ten Commandments, the list of moral elements to follow was apparently removed and re-posted a number of times. In the end, it was made part of a larger display of historical documents that have shaped American history, the ACLU claims.
Now, the textbook page will continue take the former document’s place — a development that has already unfolded. Urbanski approved the settlement on Tuesday and, thus, dismissed the lawsuit.
(H/T: Huffington Post)
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Comments (227)
kedward
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:08pmIn 1920 the ACLU was created by Roger Nash Baldwin for the purposes (he called them pillars) of removing the right to private property and dissolution of organized religion in the United States. Is the ACLU following Baldwin’s plan?
Report Post »turkey13
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 3:26pmOne day some rich lawyer with testicals is going to sue them for harrassament!
Report Post »db321
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 10:13pmSatan may have won this battle, but I have read the Bible and the last Chapter tells me that God win the War. I hope that School District and America is still around to see it.
Report Post »Mysnt
Posted on July 7, 2012 at 5:29amThe Bible says that we are pilgrims in this world. That although we are in the world and though we should love people we are not to love the world.
My point is that although we win in the end and we will reign with Christ. Let us not lay down and let the ACLU have free reign. Let us fight them at every level. Make them force us to take down our Ten Commandments, etc. Let us first display them everywhere we can. It’s time to witness for Christ like never before.
The reason they don’t want to see the Ten Commandments is because it brings to light the fact that they are sinners. They love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil.
Report Post »mountainbiker
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:01pm“nor infringe upon the free exercise thereof” MMM… how convenient that they always leave that part out.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:20pmNo one individual’s right was infringed upon. The school is an agent of the State, and as such must be neutral with regards to religion to stay within the establishment clause.
Report Post »Smokey_Bojangles
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:41pmSo If you work for the Government you can not have a religion? I bet you have Obamagasms for the Billions our Government spends sponsoring Al Gore’s religion.That is Forced Religion that is taught in schools.
Report Post »Hova
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:16pmNo, if you work for the government, you can have your own religion just like everyone else. What you can’t do is brandy about your religion as if it is exclusive in terms of importance to all other religions, which is what happens when you post your ten commandments at a school as if the Christians who use the school are “more in line” with the schools policies than non-Christians.
Report Post »bigmac1990
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:23pmhey encinom where in the constitution does it say separation of church and state or in any other founding doc. last i checked it isnt the only place it shows up in is in a PERSONAL LETTER from jefferson to the danbary baptists. couse if you know where it is please let me know couse it doesnt show up ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »encinom
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:30pmbigmac1990
Report Post »Didn’t mention seperation of Churhc and State, but since you brought it up, the term is short hand for the Establishment Clause and the jurispurdence that surrounds regarding the need for government and its agents to be neutral when it comes to religion. Would you be defending this school if it posted Sharia law or Budhist principals?
NHwinter
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:47pmThe Constitution – Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the FREE EXERCISE THEREOF, or abridging the freedom of speech, etc.
Report Post »johnjamison
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:52pmHey monicne,
Report Post »No where in the Constitution is the words seperation of church and state ever mention. IT DOES HOWEVER FORBID LAWS BEING PUT IN PLACE TO EITHER PROMOTE OR DENOUNCE RELIGION.
Seems to me the school would have an open and shut case as NO COURT HAS THE POWER TO INHIBIT THE PRACTICE OF RELIGION.
As for education and the federal government there never was any amendment that gave to power to educate our children to the federal goevrnment. So it is a local community issue as the supposed primary money for education is personal property taxes from the citizens that live in the school’s district.
YOU AND THE ILK YOU FOLLOW TIME IS COMING.
encinom
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:56pm@NHwinter
Report Post »WHOSE RIGHTS WERE INFRINGED UPON? No, individual has the right to demand that an agent of the goverment endorse one religion over all others. Any idiot can cut and paste, take the time to actually understand what you are cutting and pasting and right an actually argument or be a fool.
cykonas
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 3:08pmMountain, I respectfully submit that the more relevant section of the amendment is “Congress shall make no law”. The display of the Ten Commandments at this school was not mandated by Congress. Having said that, there is a large body of subsequent case law on which an argument could be made for the removal of the Ten Commandments. While my opinion is that their display is in no way an infringement to the rights of anyone, I recognize that it’s an arguable question under the law.
The solution, again in my opinion, is to do away with government schools. Abolish the Department of Education and return all of the tax money and the power to each sovereign State. That completely removes the Federal Government from the process and then the States and citizens of each State can decide for themselves.
Even if that did occur there would still be judicial challenges, but they would have to be made on a different basis than establishment cause of the 2nd amendment. Peace.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 3:32pmcykonas
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 3:08pm
Mountain, I respectfully submit that the more relevant section of the amendment is “Congress shall make no law”. The display of the Ten Commandments at this school was not mandated by Congress
____________________
The problem is to many on this page fail to realize that there are many more Amendments to the Constitution than the first 10. the 14th Amendment incorporates the Bill of Rights onto the states. Even before the creation of the Dept. of Ed, the Court has been ruling against public schools showing preference for Christianity over all other faiths (school pray decision was prior to the creation).
Again tha issue is that public schools, even if they never received a single federal dollar are bound to be in compliance with the establishment clause.
@JohnJamieson
“IT DOES HOWEVER FORBID LAWS BEING PUT IN PLACE TO EITHER PROMOTE OR DENOUNCE RELIGION.” Wrong the first amendment uses the terms Establish or Infringe. Promoting the religious text of one creed is a violation of the Establishment clause, it puts one religion in government favor over all others. No individuals rights to practice their faith were infringed upon.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 4:02pmPublic schools are not “individuals”. They are entities of government, as such they are not afforded “individual rights”.
What would you say if you had to attend a public school or appear in a court room with koran passages inscribed in stone or hung on a plaque on the wall?
Or for that matter, what translation of the ten commandments should be used? The ones about not coveting your neighbors slaves? Or the abbreviated ones for simpletons.
And should government display anything that conflict with the US Constitution?
Because that is exactly what the Ten Commandments do
http://atheism.about.com/od/tencommandments/a/americanlaw.htm (2 pages)
Gods vanity certainly isn’t constitutional.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QWwzT4ulkA
“We in the United States, above all, must remember that lesson, for we were founded as a nation of openness to people of all beliefs. And so we must remain. Our very unity has been strengthened by our pluralism. We establish no religion in this country, we command no worship, we mandate no belief, nor will we ever. Church and state are,and must remain, separate. All are free to believe or not believe, all are free to practice a faith or not, and those who believe are free, and should be free, to speak of and act on their belief.
Report Post »At the same time that our Constitution prohibits state establishment of religion, it protects the free exercise of all religions. And walking this fine line requires government to be strictly neutral.” RR
SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 4:16pmYou athiests love the slave thing don’t you. Yes, there were slaves but the word mean translates servants. The “slaves” that they had were endentured servants. And every jubilee year, they had to be freed and all debts forgiven. You guys are either ignorant of that or conveniently leave it out. If you have a job, you are a slave to your employer. THe commandment also says not to covet your neighbors oxen. Is that OK with you guys or are you a PETA member that thinks oxen should have civil rights too?
I actually don’t care if they have the commandments up. I can worship God if they are hanging there or not. Of course, Thomas Jefferson thought the first book that should be taught from in the public school was the Bible but hey, what did he know?
Report Post »donaldchar
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 4:59pm“agent of the state”? If THAT’s the case, let’s quit kidding ourselves. They’re not Public schools where WE the people establish policy and monitor its progress, they’re Government schools and we no longer have any say in running them. If the ACLU wants to remove America‘s moral standards from students’ view, has anybody asked what they’ll replace it with? I thought so…
Report Post »From Virginia
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 5:15pmActually, you’re a liar Encinom. People right to INDIVIDUAL practice of religion is being violated everyday. Didn’t you see the story of the guy jailed for having a bible study in his home?
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 5:26pm@ SQUIDVETOHIO – So what you‘re saying is that it’s alright to beat your “indentured servants” as long as you don’t kill them? Exodus 21:20-21
Report Post »encinom
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 5:39pmFrom Virginia
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 5:15pm
Actually, you’re a liar Encinom. People right to INDIVIDUAL practice of religion is being violated everyday. Didn’t you see the story of the guy jailed for having a bible study in his home?
___________________
What is happening in Arizona has nothing to do with a Virginia school. The actions of the SCHOOL TAKING DOWN THE 10 COMMENDMENTS DO NOT INFRINGE ON ANY BODIES INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.
Stay on the topic.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 5:40pm[Yes, there were slaves but the word mean translates servants]
“When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.”
Servants & Employees are “property” for you to beat on? My this sounds like a great job, sign me up!
[And every jubilee year, they had to be freed and all debts forgiven.]
“In the Biblical Book of Leviticus, a Jubilee year is mentioned to occur every fifty years, in which slaves and prisoners would be freed, and debts would be forgiven.”
Boy that sounds like a fantastic “year” of employment under your christian master.
[Thomas Jefferson thought the first book that should be taught from in the public school was the Bible but hey, what did he know?]
Report Post »He also owned “slaves” and possibly impregnated one of them as DNA proves a link but hey, what did he know?
vaman
Posted on July 9, 2012 at 9:59amMountain, I fully agree. I say every school promote, encourage and teach Satanism because as you so studiously noted, the no infringement part is critical. Oh, I’m sorry, you didn’t mean that religion. You meant your religion.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on July 9, 2012 at 12:43pm@SquidVetOhio
Report Post »[they had were endentured servants. And every jubilee year, they had to be freed]
Again, “indentured servants” are something you can beat on without punishment and not let them go “free” for 50 years?
How is that a mistranslation? How is that not slavery?
Have you ran out of ways to spin this already?
cemerius
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:57pmACLU is a collection of lawyers that have grown tired of chasing ambulances NOW they just chase causes……..
NOTHING wrong with the 10 Commandments regardless of where you believe they came from or didn’t come from! They are a perfect set of foundations to have a GREAT society!!
Report Post »Alwaysaskwhy
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:04pmExcept for the whole “have no other gods before me” part. It really cramps the style of freedom of religion.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:18pmSo your point is that the government was keeping people from worshipping another “god” by posting the 10 commandments at a high school? When and where did that happen? Also, you do know that those pesky tablets are chiseled into the SCOTUS building right? How in the world does Tom Cruise get away with being a scientologist?
Logic FAIL
Report Post »ltemp
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:44pmReally, so you don’t believe in evolution?
Report Post »Alwaysaskwhy
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:16pmMy first reply was mainly a comment on this from the original post: “NOTHING wrong with the 10 Commandments regardless of where you believe they came from or didn’t come from! They are a perfect set of foundations to have a GREAT society!!”
Report Post »Do I disagree with all of the 10 commandments? Nope. Should all beliefs be acknowledged in a public setting if one is? Yep.
LTEMP- am I an Athiest? Yes i am. Keep in mind that doesn’t affect my interpretation that all beliefs should have the same treatment.
SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 3:34pmUh no, I don’t believe in evolution. I believe in science which is contrary to macro-evolution.
Report Post »GaltLine
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:34pmWhy? When it was time to physically remove the ACLU?
Report Post »I support God's Israel!
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:43pmCowards.
Report Post »LB
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:33pmI hope they enlarge the one page from the history book to mural size, as then everyone can still read it. We need to learn how to work around these idiots (aclu, etc..) Maybe as new schools are built, we need to find out where and buy a little piece of land next to it and display all the things the public schools won’t. We the public own the public schools I don’t get why one person always seems to get there way. Out smarting them is going to be the only way.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:36pmWell that is going to be tough to do when you believe in talking snakes and that the ten commandments are the bedstone of all human morality.
Report Post »I support God's Israel!
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:44pmWe work around these idiots by VOTING THEM OUT OF OFFICE, VOTING OFF THE SCHOOL BOARD, ETC.. duh…………GET INVOLVED IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT.
Report Post »Alwaysaskwhy
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:52pmBecause not everyone in this country (the public) agrees with you and your beliefs. Christianity should not be shoved down the throats of our children. The curriculum for public schools should include only information that can be observed, measured and tested. If one religion gets it’s doctrines placed in a school, every other religion/belief system needs also to be represented.
Report Post »ltemp
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:15pm@alwaysaskwhy
Report Post »So we should shove the principles of humanism and atheism down the throats of our children. I get it, In the competitive field of principles of a life source it’s OK if it is the evolution theory or any other belief system but not OK if it is christian. Maybe because there is no contest in decent living that compares to these simple basic laws. The law that we all know is being shoved down our throats is “do as thou will” and how is that working out?
SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:21pm@ALWAYSASKWHY
I was wondering when the athiests were going to get out of bed. Let me educate you, the 10 commandments were around 1500 years before Christianity was. So if anything, we christians are guilty of shoving Judaism down your throat. And you guys say we’re exclusive……
You guys make it too easy.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:39pmEvolution is not a belief system anymore than the heliocentric theory is a belief system.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:48pm@Ltemp
“So we should shove the principles of humanism and atheism down the throats of our children”
Technically speaking, the removal of Christian religious displays is not the promotion of atheism nor humanism. It would be a return to secularism… which is the desired natural balance of public schools, as per the Supreme Court’s interpretation of the establishment clause.
If your contention were to be correct, the 10 Commandments would have to be replaced with, say, atheist symbols or something saying “There is no God” (or in the spirit of the display, some historical quotes saying as much).
Report Post »Alwaysaskwhy
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:57pm@ SQUIDVETOHIO
And there were many many religions around before any form of monotheism, not to mention the fact that there are several religions around today that are older than yours, it just took a few hundred thousand years for your god to finally get it right I guess, huh?
Report Post »Alwaysaskwhy
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:03pm@ LTEMP
Report Post »“If one religion gets it’s doctrines placed in a school, every other religion/belief system needs also to be represented.”
From that sentence, how does one extrapolate that only humanism/atheism should be taught? I am merely trying to bring to your attention that christianity is no more valid or special than any other belief. If we have to have one, then we must have all.
SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 3:40pm@ALWAYSASKWHY
“And there were many many religions around before any form of monotheism”
Really? Name one.
It didn’t take hundred of thousands of years for my God to get it right. He got it right when created the universe about 6,000 years ago. There is no proof for the earth being older than that. I’ll blow up your light – years argument and carbon-dating before you even bother posting it.
I suggest you first start with the imaginary religions pre-dating monotheism and the starting date of them. I’ll be waiting…..
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 5:30pm@ SQUIDVETOHIO – Regarding your post on the Earth being 6000 years old……..sorry for the pause, I couldn’t stop laughing, I am going to stop replying to your dribble until you take off your tin foil hat.
Report Post »ltemp
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 7:15pm@ ALWAYSASKWHY
Report Post »Welcome to Babylon, “do as thou will”,
Tractorboy
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:06pm@holy ghostbuster, did you read Genesis? What did God create 1st? me thinks it be the heavens and earth, darkness was over the surface, that means no sun, so 1st day could have been done like in a microwave or it could have been 1 billion years the way we measure them now, it wasn’t till the end of the day God said let there be light, God saw light was good, and he separated light from the darkness. God called the light day and the darkness night. You probably get the rest, you should get a study bible, it would help keep things in context, it seems you perhaps have a tinfoil hat that is too tight.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:33pmthe tragedy is that the school had to pay lawyers and whatnot and ultimately did this – not because it was wrong – but because they didnt have deep pockets
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:41pmThey probably would have lost a court case anyway. They really should have known better and not put it up in the first place.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:22pmNot if the court was following precedent. They would have won.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:04pmSquid – The courts have repeatedly sided with the commandments removal, going back to the 1980 Stone v. Graham decision by the Supreme Court. This would have been a long pointless court case that would have cost the taxpayers plenty. Just keep your religion to yourself.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 3:41pm“courts” may have. The Supreme Court has not.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 3:47pmThe SCOTUS has said that it can not be exclusionary. So long as jews, hindus, etc… can put up something as well, there is no government endorsed religion.
And I’ll share my “religion” to whomever I like whenever I like. That’s one of the freedoms I helped to protect when I served. If you don’t like it, either physically try to stop me or walk away. I’ll do the same when you spread your secularism.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 3:58pmI agree with you for everything except your implication that secularism is a religion. Secularism and atheism are not the same thing. The issue is execution. Should Muslims be allowed to put Sharia law doctrines in the public schools? What about pagan religions? Once you open the flood gates, you’ll have every religion demanding a spot on the school walls. It’s easier to just exclude all of them. Let folks put up religious stuff on their front lawns, cars, t-shirts, businesses, churches, etc… Let kids form their own prayer groups before or after school. I don’t think you need your religious doctrines on the walls to practice or celebrate your religion.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 4:28pmLook, I could really care less if the commandments are hanging up or not. It does not affect my faith at all. I can recite them to anyone that wants to know. But secularism IS a religion IF there is a God. Christians are not trying to force anyone into our faith. In fact, it‘s impossible and against God’s will. Quit equating us with muslims when there is no equation. And yes, I don’t mind if there is a Crescent, a Star of David, a Cross, and a Hindu god displayed. It doesn’t offend me. I know what I believe and hanging a sign on the wall that says “god is a fairytale” does not change for one second what I believe. In fact, it’s athiests that seem to get offended by everything. I don’t hear Jews complain, or Hindus, or Buddhists, or even Muslims very often for that matter.
I think it all misses the point. The bigger point is, should there be public schools? And if so, should the Federal Governement be involved in them at all? If you believe in the 10th amendment, the answer is no!
Report Post »themachinist239
Posted on July 24, 2012 at 10:20am“Look, I could really care less if the commandments are hanging up or not. It does not affect my faith at all.” — So then why is this concept of secularism in school such a controversial issue among Christians? I’m an atheist but would prefer that in school the teachers refrain from telling kids “there is no god” in any way, since that would be an endorsement of beliefs. Secularism in schools is fair and shouldn’t be the subject of controversy. Let’s agree as men of different beliefs to stand behind this principle and everyone gets along.
Report Post »h20sue
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:32pmThis is sad, very sad. What we need to to is dismantle the ACLU, Black Panthers, Unions, NAACP, and then our country would be a better place.
God is not happy with all this nonsense, and he will evenutally take care of those who are anti-Christ. I personally think the floods, wild fires, etc., are signals from above. Libs and groups who are removing the word of Christ will pay and oh, how they will pay…. Obviously, they have never read their Bible and do not understand the Ten Commandments. Prayer and pledges to our country should return to all school systems. This is why the country has gone wild. 82% of parents seem to believe “teachers” should teach morals to “their children”. Wake up people, you made the children and you’re responsible for their upbringing.
The Ten Commandments should stay right where they are! It’s called reglious freedoms, why don’t we have ours?
Report Post »Alwaysaskwhy
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:11pmYeah good idea! Let’s get rid of every group except christians! Who needs diversity and progress! Not us, we have our faith, so we know that there is absolutely no other possible explanation for anything except what our preacher tells us on Sunday!
Report Post »davecorkery
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:46pmObviously, you haven’t read the bible either, or you would realize that there are four versions. Which one will YOU pick, because others will want THEIR version. And that’s just in the KJV!
Report Post »Other denominations bibles have worded the ten C’s differently, so when you put up YOUR favorite one, they will not be happy. Get it now?
Faith is no reason.
phillyatheist
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:54pm“God is not happy with all this nonsense”
did He tell you that directly? funny how people claim to know how their God’s mind works.
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 5:34pm@ DAVECORKERY – My favorite is the one about not boiling a kid in it‘s mother’s milk. (For some of you out there, a kid refers to a baby goat. Just want to be clear about that.)
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:32pm“A framed copy of the Ten Commandments that had been on display at a Virginia public high school will be replaced by a page from a history textbook depicting the commandment tablets and highlighting their role in the “roots of democracy.”
So, the 10 Commandments are STILL there but shown in a larger context of how they influenced American democracy.
Why is it fundamentalist Christians are still mad?
Report Post »GaltLine
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:42pmWill the Ten Commandments still be readable? Or will the emphasis be that some people long ago approved of them? How nice and ancient history. Hardly relevant today.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:53pmThat is really all the relevance they have today. I mean our morals and “commandments” are far better and finely tuned then they were during the bronze age.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:25pmYea, like men marrying men, killing babies in the womb. Teenage pregnancy. Child rape. Deadbeats having babies and letting his neighbor pay for them.
Yea, we are WAY more moral now a days.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:41pmAll that stuff you just said is in the bible too. Imagine that.
Report Post »checkmate0831
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:11pm@dop – The moral of the story is the people have not changed for the better in fact we now have people running around eating each other faces off, biting people on necks as if they were a vampire etc. If anything, we are getting worse…
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:41pmThat is what every generations says. There have been cannibals since…well since humans. The statistics just don’t support your argument. You can say it is so but that does not make it so.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 3:30pmSQUIDVETOHIO — there is an 4500 year old Assyrian tablet that reads…
“Our earth is degenerate in these latter days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching.”
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 3:54pm@Bruce P.
You make my point for me. Man is a fallen being. We are wicked and have always since the Fall. The Assyrians were particularly wicked. First of all, I doubt the date of the Tablet but for the sake of the argument I’ll go along. The point I was refuting is that man is not becoming more moral. We are as base as we ever were. America is undenialby less moral than even 25 years ago. There’s no denying that by any measureable statistic.
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 8:18pm@BRUCE P
This seems like a good compromise to me.
I have no idea why people are upset.
You also had a question regarding why religion needs to be in schools – isn’t church and family enough?
To be honest, that’s a great question. I think most people feel their religion is being belittled and undermined by the school. That is not a bad thing, in my opinion. If a person‘s religion isn’t strong enough to stand up to scrutiny, then maybe it is wrong.
Example: The earth is the center of the universe. This was a common teaching that got debunked. That’s a bad thing?
Another: The earth is only 6,000 years old. Still a common teaching and also problematic when you look at the science. However, since we LDS believe the earth was ‘firmed’ with materials already in existence, not ‘created’ out of thin air, it poses no problem for me.
Another: Life in outer space. If discovered may cause problems with some religions. Not mine. We believe there are many planets that have life.
Science is a beautiful thing! Often times, for me, it only reaffirms my religion.
We are commanded to study everything on, above or below the earth. Nothing is off-limits.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on July 7, 2012 at 12:34amBROTHER_ED –
You make a great point. Some here seem to hold a tissue-paper faith, that they feel is threatened if it faces any sort of scrutiny. So, they seek the government to enforce their will upon others. It is no different than the Muslim who is outraged over pictures of Muhammad.
Report Post »albiegf13
Posted on July 14, 2012 at 4:54pmThe only thing I can say is the following as it relates to the intrusion of religion in this atheist’s life…. If you were to cite any Biblical reference as an assertion to any business practice in the company that I run, you would be fired on the spot. I was recently sued for this, the case was dismissed and my attorneys fees were paid by the plaintiff. I do not discriminate against any particular religion or faith, I discriminate against all religions and all faiths…. If you work at my firm, you shall not endorse nor promote religion, faith or political ideology, verbally, electronically or digitally on my company’s property. That is religious freedom and the same applies to my home…. As for your proselytizing your views in the public forum, I would exercise my 1st amendment rights to counter them with mockery and ridicule, if you can’t live with that, you are would be standing on the wrong side of the law, and thus on the wrong end of the gun…..
Report Post »bemo234
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:28pmSpineless, uncommitted Christians, passively watch what their Christian forefathers build with the blood, sweat and tears of conviction, crumble around them as they cower and count their pennies.
You deserve to be ruled and owned by the pagans you help empower through your inaction, shame on you as your children will help pay the price of your cowardice!
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:35pmYou know all they did was take down the Ten Commandments in one public school in Virginia right?
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:29pmA bit self – righteous don’t you think? Were you standing there to prevent them from taking it down?
Report Post »team1blazer
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:30pmAmen. The ACLU (anti christian leftist union) has been attacking Christianity for decades. Where has it gotten us? Look at OWS and you have the answer. As a nation, we will either turn back to God, or fall into socialism.
Report Post »ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:56pmTeam,
Stop lying.
http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com/
Report Post »Copo
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:26pm@Team1blazer really, I thought they were the Unamericans for Godless and Communistic Totalitarianism (that cannot spell past the level of a 3 year old)
Report Post »commandtech
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:27pmAccording to Mooochelle, there is no longer a seperation between Church and State!!!!
Report Post »Deejay_Les
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:03pmwell, not during a campaign. For democrats. And. Black. Churches,
Report Post »RedDirtTexas
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:25pmWhat article of the Constitution declares a “separation of Church and state”? Just can’t seem to find it. It seems to me that, by the new rules, whoever is currently in charge can just make up policy on the fly. If a duly elected school board wants the Commandments, so be it. If the MAJORITY of the community doesn’t like it, vote them out. Liberals just abhor this basic DEMOCRATIC philosophy!
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:35pm“If a duly elected school board wants the Commandments, so be it. If the MAJORITY of the community doesn’t like it, vote them out.”
The Constitution is not made invalid simply because of a majority vote.
“Liberals just abhor this basic DEMOCRATIC philosophy!”
The 10 Commandments are STILL in the school, along side a text explaining how they influenced American democracy, and you’re upset about that…yet it’s the liberals who abhor democracy…
Report Post »TomSawyer
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:22pmHow can you turn kids into communist if they think it is wrong to steal?
Report Post »And what if kids believe in God, then they might start thinking ideas like their rights come from the creator, not the state.
Bruce P.
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:29pmYou don’t need the 10 Commandments to tell you it is wrong to steal. Theft is universal in human culture, not only in Judeo-Christian mythology, as a crime.
Report Post »TomSawyer
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:39pmBruce P., Taxing the rich more than they receive in benefits from the government is stealing. Apparently, people need help understanding this idea.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:34pm@BRUCE P. You mean man was created with a conscience and a basic knowlege of right and wrong? Seems like I read that somewhere, let’s see…… a jewish guy wrote it… name escapes me… Saul, or Paul maybe. Good to see you rejecting Darwinian evolution because it teaches that it’s ok to steal if you are stronger than your competition. And you must do it to survive!
Silver lining.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:43pmDarwinian evolution teaches you to steal? Do you even know how little you understand about evolution?
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 4:07pmWell Mr. Darwin, explain survival of the fittest to me then. Ever watched discovery channel? Hyenas routinely steal a lion’s prey if they outnumber them. Darwinian evolution would say that either the lion evolve to fight off the hyenas or it should die and go extinct because it’s not strong enough to survive. I suggest you pick up Darwin’s book. Actually, I suggest you don’t. I‘m very familiar with evolution since I’m a Creationist who points out the fallacy of it. I was also forced to be indoctrinated with it with taxpayer funds while in school.
You wanna post that I don’t know anything? You better come better than that. If you’re gonna question my intelligence (anonymously over the internet btw), you better back it up with some data or get lost.
Report Post »Chet Hempstead
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 5:25pmLions also steal food that hyenas hunted for. Competition has made both species stronger and more fit.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:16pmSquidvet@
It’s futile at this point…seriously what evidence or data could I possible give you?
What evidence or data can you give a person who believes the universe is only 6,000 years old contrary to all the evidence yet believes in talking animals without any evidence? The answer is none…you are in you’re own world and you make up the rules.
Report Post »lizaz
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:17pmThe ACLU is AFRAID OF RELIGION!!!! They just won’t admit it, but nearly every action they do proves it!!!
Report Post »Alwaysaskwhy
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:14pmIt’s more like they are tired of religion.
Report Post »ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:55pmUnlike the ACLJ the ACLU actually defends cases for Christians which won’t bring them a lot of PR…
http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com/
The ACLU fights just as hard for INDIVIDUAL free exercise of religion as the ACLU fights against GOVERNMENT endorsement, sponsorship, or establishment of religion. Despite this fact, many people spread misinformation about the ACLU around the internet, innocently and maliciously, falsely claiming the ACLU is anti-religion or anti-Christian.
This list of FACTS counteracts that misinformation. These links represent just a few of the many examples of the ACLU defending the free speech and free exercise rights of Christians (for purposes of this list, the word “Christian” means a person who self-identifies as “Christian”).
In every example, the ACLU is defending the right of a Christian to speak as a Christian or to practice Christianity.
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:14pmWhat kind of textbook cites “ancient Greek democracy” along with Magna Carta and the Bible as having inspired America’s founders? “Ancient Roman Republic” would be more like it; Greek democracy they regarded as a horrible model to be avoided.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:10pmOh, thank you ACLU! What if children actually had to learn the 10 Commandments, what an awful world this would be. Now the teachers can get back to the important stuff, like gay sex education.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:14pmHaha
Report Post »Cape_Lookout_RW_Extremist
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:16pmand…looking for trench coats carrying 9mm. And they wonder why our schools are in the shape they’re in.
Report Post »Alwaysaskwhy
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:44pmI wouldn’t want my children subjected to a religious indoctrinated form of morality. I would be much more proud of a child who came to their own conclusions of why they shouldn’t murder, rape or steal. Religion has no place in the public school system.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:45pm“I would be much more proud of a child who came to their own conclusions of why they shouldn’t murder, rape or steal.” Well save us all a bunch of trouble and send them straight to the State Pen. It’s full of “children” that had parents like you.
Report Post »Alwaysaskwhy
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:29pmI’m sure there are just as many with parents like you, Mr. Nugent. Belief in a higher power in no way guarantees an individual to be a good person.
Report Post »chips1
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:07pmThere are 10 Comandments, so just wear a shirt with a number on it. 1 thru 10. The ACLU can’t ban numbers.
Report Post »ZAP
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:05pmThe created telling the Creator ”I don not need you or your Word’.’.Sounds like pride to me.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:20pmDefiance.
Report Post »Noun: Open resistance; bold disobedience
Alwaysaskwhy
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:54pmAssuming that your belief system is the only one with validity sounds a lot like pride as well.
Report Post »frogg
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:03pmI feel sorry for the students that have to go to this school. All the adults at this school can teach is SURRENDER!!!! Vote the BUMS out this November! Please, Pretty PLEASE!!!!
Report Post »lefty_lucy1960
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:02pmAmazing. Of course all these things have been prophesied so really all a Christian CAN do is to speak up and be prepared for whatever else is coming.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:08pmYes read “The Harbinger” … what we need out of our schools is the ACLU and other anti-God entities .. including the NEA.
Report Post »Nemo13
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:01pmI agree, all parents should remove their children from public schools. It is against your beliefs. Save your children from the evil clutches of the PC world.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:32pmAmen .. .Home School or send to a private religious school. I did.
Report Post »Smokey_Bojangles
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:59am“…or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..”
Report Post »Denying someone their rights does not validate your own.The Government can praise Jesus or Al Gore’s green god all day long.I do not have to listen or read about it.Tho “We The People”do spend Billions to appease Al Gore’s god.Where is the Freedom from that crack pot religion?
SimpleTruths
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:17pmIts called Science you idiot.
Report Post »TSUNAMI-22
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:20pm@ SimpleTruths
Its called Science you idiot.
Report Post »~~~~~~~~~~~~
Without God, there would be no science.
TomSawyer
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:44pmSimpleTruths, It is not called Science; It is called a cap and trade scam. Thou shall not steal.
Report Post »Alwaysaskwhy
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 1:02pm“Where is the Freedom from that crack pot religion?”
I would sum up every religion that way.
Report Post »Copo
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 2:32pm@simpletruths
It’s called ignorance of the medieval warming period, the out gassing effect, solar activity and its coloration to the rest of the solar system, the very nature of carbon as a necessary compound to life on earth, and deceit by recording temperatures in strategic locations such as directly above asphalt.
Real science has something called *gasp* the scientific method
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 3:15pmSIMPLETRUTHS — there is no need for that. We can argue, even vehemently, with reason and logic. Stooping to ad hominems makes us all look bad.
Report Post »THX-1138
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 4:02pm@Alwaysaskwhy
“I would sum up every religion that way.”
I think that says more about you than religion….
Report Post »THX-1138
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 4:11pm@Copo
Left out the CLOUD research at CERN on the effects of Cosmic Rays on cloud formation (and about a million other bits of info that utterly destroy the anthropomorphic global warming theory).
Science is awesome (for those of us who can tell it from propaganda)…
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:58amHmm…not sure how I feel about this. Since it is a public school I will be happy with the decision.
Report Post »Rayblue
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:05pmWell, aren’t you just sweet as pie.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:09pmWhy thank you ray
Report Post »Rayblue
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:49pmYou’re welcome the doors.
Report Post »By the way. It was cow pie.
But you probably saw that one coming.
The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:57pmCow pie’s are extremely nutritious
Report Post »Chet Hempstead
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 5:10pmUm, you do know that a cow pie is not the same thing as a beef pie, don’t you?
Report Post »TSUNAMI-22
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:57amA thousand tiny cuts……………
Report Post »The-Monk
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:01pmHi TSUNAMI-22,
It’s my turn to say, “I was thinking the same thing”.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:57amcompromise? i didn‘t know that was possible in today’s world. maybe Congress should look into how this strange idea came to pass. this was a good outcome, IMO.
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on July 7, 2012 at 10:54am@PHILLYATHEIST
Agreed.
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:55amWHAAAAT?
We are either FOR GOD or against HIM. Helllo, Virginia. You have just sealed your fate. Where are the CHRISTIANS?????
Parents, get your kids OUT of public schools. Now!
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:05pmVirginia will get hit by a hurricane to make up for this.
Report Post »SimpleTruths
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:15pmWell I can be FOR you believing what you want as long as you’re FOR me believing what I want. Or is freedom only a one-way street?
Report Post »toto
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:21pmWish it were possible for Christians to take their kids out of the public schools en mass. Maybe for a day or a week. The meek are TOO tolerant in their own demise.
Report Post »The_Doors_Of_Perception
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:32pmI always thought meek and humble people never talked about how meek and humble they were.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on July 6, 2012 at 3:44pmWhy do Christians need the public schools to teach their faith? Why is what is taught at church and in the home insufficient?
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