Vast Majority of Americans See God’s Hand in Creation, Evolution
- Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:08pm by
Meredith Jessup
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According to the latest Gallup poll, a combined 78 percent of Americans see God’s work in the creation and evolution of human beings, with four in 10 believing in strict creationism — that God created humans in their present form about 10,000 years ago — and 38 percent believing God has guided an evolutionary process by which modern-day humans developed over millions of years from less-advanced life forms.
Just 16 percent of Americans reportedly believe that human have developed without God’s involvement.
Despite the small percentage, Gallup notes that the number of Americans holding this “secular” view of evolution has risen from just 9 percent in 1982, while the percentage of Americans is down 7 percentage points from its 47 percent high in 1993 and 1999.
According to Gallup, Americans’ views on human origins vary significantly by level of education and religious involvement, with those with college and postgraduate degrees more likely to believe in evolution than creationism. Meanwhile, those who attend church regularly are more likely to believe in creationism.
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Comments (237)
kazzbooA1
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:12pmEverything in the entire universe is made up of energy-everything is made of the same source and the only difference is that everything is of a physical nature whereby the CREATOR is one of a spiritual nature.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 3:22amYou might as well be worshiping Ramtha. Your comment sounded new-ageish enough.
Report Post »ysgrifennu
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:09pmI would agree with TROLLTRAINER. Christianity and evolution are not compatible. The problem lies with the general public. They are told that evolution is fact and that science has “proven” it beyond a doubt. This is absolutely not true. Science has not proven evolution and it is not fact beyond a doubt. Science has no proofs. The evolution model is full of holes that the evolutionist refuses to address so they come up with these so-called links that are later dismissed. The “discoveries” are all over the media but when the same discoveries are later found not to be a link this is swept under the carpet and the general public never finds out. Science can’t even say how life actually came from non-life. Where did the first cell come from? Where does the new information come from that would change scales into feathers? Where are these answers if evolution is a proven fact.
Report Post »The public is then torn between believing the lies they are told and what the Bible says. If science was honest, the public could see the facts, but this won’t happen.
Science has too much at stake to let anyone behind the curtain to see the truth. If people are really Christians, they will stand on the Word and disregard the lies in the news. Those who do not have a firm foundation are the most susceptible to the lie of evolution.
TakeBackAmerica
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:15pmThanks for that post
Report Post »DashRipRock
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:15pmIts called Peer Review
Report Post »Thats how Academic Atheists hijacked science.
Malachai
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 11:18pmThis is all nonsense. The evolutionary model is NOT “full of holes.” It is imperfect, yes. But every single scientific theory has issues. Evolution has been obvserved, tested, re-tested, predicted, re-predicted, and backed up more than almost any other theory.
BTW this “New information” comes, in part, from mutations. There is a lot more to it than that but to suggest that scientist have no clue where this information comes from is totally false.
Also, your questions are total straw men. Evolution is not set up to answer where life came from; it’s how it evolved/changed. You show from your statements that you do not really understand what you are talking about.
Report Post »vennoye
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 2:07am@Malachai–just have to disagree with you on
Report Post »“Evolution has been obvserved, tested, re-tested, predicted, re-predicted, and backed up more than almost any other theory.”
Evolution has been theory for a long time–it has NOT been observed, tested, retested or backed up at all…….no one has evidence of species in transition (no missing links) that is why the theory of evolution is just a theory full of holes. If evolution were true, why are humans no longer evolving physically? Why are the organs of humans the same now as they were hundreds of years ago?
Smokingman
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 1:54pmvennoye:
Seriously? Are you kidding me? Evolution is observed contently when a new flu virus emerges. It may be a small (literally) example, but none the less true. You also say that there are no transitional examples (missing links). That would only be true if you exclude the hundreds of transitional fossils that have been found, classified, and proven genetically.
You also go on to say that humans are no longer evolving. Again, that is simply not true. People on the whole are taller than they were just a hundred years ago (yes it could be argued that this is due to diet, but the genes have also changed which supports an evolutionary change as well). Changes in how we process oxygen and produce vitamin D have also been noted.
However, if you are looking for major changes, you will need to look farther back. Since evolution takes time (lots of time for long living creatures such as man, less time for viruses for example), you need to look at **** erectus, **** neanderthalensis, **** heidelbergensis, etc.
In short, being ignorant of the science (as you apparently are) does not mean is doesn’t exist; only that you don’t know about it. However, it saddens me to know that you will not try to educate yourself because it would mean challenging your current world view.
Oh, to answer a previous statement that science cannot say how life came from non-life… At least 4 ways have been discovered that could answer that question. In fact life (albeit simple life) has been created in laboratories to prove the various hypotheses. The only questions is which one actually occurred on earth.
Report Post »JackOfTrades
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 10:52pm@ vennoye- I’d agree fully with smokingman, we see evolution everyday, evolution has always been, always will, and forever and ever take forever. It happens on mutations in cells based on how we act, and environmental changes, the last classified group of humans before **** Sapien had an extremely large, “pinky” toe for climbing up trees, we stopped doing that, so it shrank, THAT’S EVOLUTION.
Report Post »Smokingman
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:58pmScience is based on provable facts and reasoned conclusions.
Religion is based on belief and traditions.
Both have their place in society.
What I don’t understand is why so many people keep confusing the two.
It’s true that only an idiot says the earth is 4,000 years old, but it‘s also true that only an idiot says that religion doesn’t matter in society.
Report Post »snowleopard3200 {mix art}
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:10pmThe earth itself is older than 4000 years; just look at the first chapter of Genesis, and understand the parts – v. one sees creation happen. In the next main key verse, the Spirit of God descended upon the waters of the deep.
Figure this part out, if the ‘waters of the deep’ do not indicate that a planet was not already in existance then what was the Spirit coming down upon?
Earth at that point was a ball of ice exposed to the raw vaccum of space itself. God here is recreating the earth. (Another clue, unto Adam and Eve they were told to repopulate the earth, not ‘populate’ the earth)
Study the first chapter out, and draw your own conclusions.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:12pmCan you prove the earth is any older? ;-)
The problem is science has been perverted. Science is actually the creationist’s friend. The known scientific facts are all accounted by creation and none of them are a problem to creation. What you are unknowingly using as fact is NOT! Radiometric dating results are not fact as they have to make three premises in analyzing the samples. Forget the first two, you cannot prove the decay rate has been constant. In fact, helium diffusion and radio halos tell a far different story.
Science is useful! But it is only a discipline created by man. It is not infallible.
Report Post »Smokingman
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 1:29pmsnowleopard3200:
Before using Genesis as source material, you must prove it’s true.
trolltrainer:
Creationists love to say radiometric dating is inaccurate and use that to say we cannot prove the age of the earth. There are just a few problems with that assertion. The first being that decay rate is indeed EXTREMELY constant and that is provable both mathematically and physically. The second being that radiometric dating (I’ll specifically talk about Carbon-14 here because it’s the most cited by creationists) is not used to date anything more than about 40,000 years old because the accuracy drops off rapidly. BTW within the range that it is accurate (200-36,000 years) it could be off by as much as a few hundred years in places and as little as 10 years in others. It all depends on what the geological conditions were at that period in history. The calibration is done using a combination of ice cores, ocean sediment samples, and a few other sources such as tree rings. In other words, there is a lot of hard science behind it and it’s not a guess as creationists like to say.
As far as helium diffusion goes. Well, that was proposed by that RATE project (as I’m sure you know) and has been thoroughly discredited by several different studies because their conclusions require impossible conditions and their math is so far off it couldn’t have been a error, but an intentional misinterpretation of their own data.
In conclusion: The basic problem with your argument is that there is a mountain of solid science to backup evolution, but absolutely zero evidence to support creationism. Because of this, creationism supporters have resorted to trying to discredit the science that backs up evolution. Since evolution is supported by nearly all branches of science, they have to discredit all of science.
All this to make the argument that a book written about 3,500 years ago is true. I’m not trying to be rude, but I simply don’t understand the motivation.
Report Post »DashRipRock
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:54pmand while we are on the subject of PROOF
Report Post »prove to me that Dakins multiverse theory is real
show me another universe I want to see it , touch it,fell it, and or hear it.
Waht? You cant prove Dawkins multiverse theory is real?
Then STFU about proof because it takes more FAITH to believe in Dawkins than it does in Intelligent design.
Deutscher
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:01pmI an not see subatomic particles, gravity, etc.
Report Post »Thankfully we have the ability to reason beyond what we can see.
Just not everyone uses their reason.
Smokingman
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:02pmThere is a big difference between proving something is absolutely correct and presenting it as the best explanation of the observable facts. To that end, Dawkins Multiverse theory best explains what we know about the universe today. That doesn’t take faith, just intelligence and reason.
Report Post »DashRipRock
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:08pmSMOKINGMAN
I take it you have never read Horton hears a HOO by Dr Zues
because he explains the multiverse better than Dawkins ever could
Report Post »NickDeringer
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:45pmI have never met a true Atheist.
To all atheists: if your daughter were dying of cancer and you were sitting in the hospital waiting room, would you say a little prayer to the God you say doesn’t exist even if there was just a slight chance it might save her life? OF COURSE YOU WOULD.
Report Post »NO_POTTERSVILLE
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:56pmA Jehovah’s witness would prey but would not allow a blood transfusion.
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:10pmNo potter,
Do you know why they do not accept blood transfusions?
Report Post »GnomeChomsky
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:27pmNo I would not. Say a prayer to who? I might as well pray to the drinking fountain it will yield the same results.
Report Post »NickDeringer
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:39pm@GnomeChomsky
Then you are heartless and selfish if you would not do EVERYTHING possible to save your daughter.
I would paint myself blue and scream like a chicken if thought there was a remote chance it would save my daughters life.
You have everything to gain and nothing to lose except your foolish pride.
Report Post »GnomeChomsky
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:11pm@nick
Report Post »Just think about it for a second. Think of how fruitless prayer is even with a belief in God. If I did not pray and this hypothetical daughter died or lived, whatever the outcome would that not be God’s plan? If you answer yes than the alternative would also be true, that if I did pray and she died/lived than that too was God’s plan. My praying or not is inconsequential, the outcome would rely on “God’s plan”. The idea that you, a mere mortal man could “change the mind” of an almighty supernatural being simply by asking is probably one of the most arrogant things I’ve ever heard.
DashRipRock
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:45pmWhats the matter with you liberal athiests? Is it a bit upsetting finding out that a Catholic Priest came up with the Big Bang theory and that Einstein thought that Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître’s theory was a perfect description of Genisis.
ahahaha
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:45pmMost people do not want to acknowledge their dependence on our God, the Creator.
Report Post »They want to find a reason to diminish his Almightiness. If they can find another belief system, then they can convince their conscious that they do not need their Creator. They can ignore his counsel. Just like Adam and Eve did, they wanted to make their own decisions – we all can see how that turned out.
Via Dolorosa
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:44pmLest we forget – in the beginning was God – He created all – He put forth His laws in the Holy Bible for us to follow. and just an fyi – God isn’t a “religion”. Satan, by way of mankind, is who is responsible for making up all of these “religions” in the world. God didn’t have anything to do with that.
And then, still not satisfied, mankind started re-writing God’s Word – The Holy Bible – because he didn‘t like God’s rules – and began changing laws to veto the ones he didn’t like – and writing in ones that he did like.
God’s Wrath? Oh yeah, it’s coming down the pike very quickly – because of mankind – and I pray for those that claim to not believe in their Creator. God is a loving God – but He is also a just God. And He won’t be mocked – He warns us all of the consequences over and over again – if we don’t repent and accept Him as our Savior. I’d say, thus far, He’s been fairly patient with us – but for how long.
Report Post »Parkeralan
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:11pmJesus was a Jew.
Report Post »mommom
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:44pmRemember Christine O’Donnell? She said something that oddly made sense. If we evovled from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? If you think about it, she is right.
Report Post »Smokingman
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:09pmIf you think about it, Christine O’Donnell is also an idiot. Straight-line, or “ladder evolution” is a scientific fallacy used by people trying to undermine the science of biological evolution. It‘s used as an argument by creationists who didn’t do well in biology class.
Report Post »GnomeChomsky
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:41pmYes, this is a truly sad argument against evolution. It displays a severe ignorance on the subject.
Report Post »Better_Red_than_Dead
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:08pm@MOMMOM
Evolution isn’t a straight line, it’s branching. Think about it in terms of family – you may be a descendant from your grandfather, but that doesn‘t mean you don’t have cousins.
“Monkeys” (or more specifically, apes) are sort of like the cousins of the human species.
Report Post »mommom
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:40pmAccording to evolutionist, humans evolved from apes, so what will evolve from human beings?
Report Post »Better_Red_than_Dead
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 8:10pm@MOMMOM
The future of human evolution is a pretty interesting subject. However, the primary drive for evolution (natural selection) no longer really takes place in humans, since no one really dies for having bad traits (for example, the number of people in the world with bad eyesight is abnormally high when compared with the rate of bad eyesight in animals, because in the wild 20/70 vision would generally entail death whereas humans with poor eyesight can just put on glasses.)
Considering the recent advancement of our understandings of genetics and genetic technology, I imagine in the future the human species will largely control its own evolution.
Report Post »GnomeChomsky
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 8:13pm@mom
Report Post »Who knows? Perhaps nothing. ****-sapiens could be the end of this “branch”, like Neanderthal man was the end of his.
NO_POTTERSVILLE
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:43pmI just wanted to through this out there, Is it possible to be a Christian and believe in extraterrestrial life on other planets?
Report Post »Via Dolorosa
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:48pmOne look at this video – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pfwY2TNehw
and you should have the answer to that question.
I.e. Do you really think God created the entire universe (beyond what we can
see or know about ) JUST for us, here on Earth?
:)
Report Post »snowleopard3200 {mix art}
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:51pmThe original Hebrew and Greek texts of the Bible do indicate ‘inhabited worlds’ and such beyond the earth itself; the difference is we are the only fallen world.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:00pmGreat question! I would say that yes, it is possible. It is also possible to be a born again Christian (read: a SAVED Christian) and still believe in evolution. However, I have to question why the Holy Spirit is not leading the theistic Christian to the right path, but, the Spirit is a guide, not an enforcer. We all grow in Christ throughout our lives, each one in a different way.
Anyway, back to the question: The Bible does not say one way or another. But think on this: We are created in His image. Nothing else is. We are the stewards of this planet. I think, theologically speaking, it is clear that God made the universe around us. I seriously doubt that there is any life outside Earth. But…If we find out there is it will not shake my faith.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:04pm(It is possible to be a Christian who believes in extraterrestrial life that is)
Report Post »Skatawandi
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:39pmChristians, the Bible is very clear that death entered the world when Adam sinned, and that Jesus died to pay the penalty for all sin. According to evolution, death is a natural process in creating life. So if you believe that God used evolution as the creative force then Jesus died for what? Our sins? No, just furthering the evolutionary cycle. Very simply, you can not believe in evolution and believe that there was any redemptive power in Jesus dieing.
Report Post »Via Dolorosa
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:34pmAs we get further on in to the end days, and people begin being affected by the increasing
weather, famine, pestilence, economy, etc…….. I’m fairly certain we will start to see more
and more people coming to Jesus – and that is the pre-destined plan in the Bible. Folks
nowadays are so puffed up with pride and vanity, they think they don’t need God. Time will
remove all doubt from those folks.
:)
Report Post »60yroldfemale
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:15pmYou got that right. If you are in doubt check out NASA space weather and SOHO and the magnetosphere simulator
Report Post »every day and watch the stuff that disappears. Why make stuff go away if it doesn’t mean anything?
Drudge had a story today about how many people have died from natural disasters in 2010. The essence was that it was somehow human’s fault. ??? Earthquakes are our fault cause the earth is mad at us and we don’t build earthquake proof houses. Horsepucky.
I can’t wait till they try to explain the earthquake that takes down the Dome of the Rock. That will be hilarious. And what about the Rapture? That is gonna take some serious creative writing.
I can remember when I thought that John had eaten too many mushrooms while living in that prison, now I am sure that Revelations will have the last laugh. Merry Christmas and God Bless all of you thinking people.
WhiteFang
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:33pmWhat does God’s Word, the Bible say?
Report Post »No mention of God using evolution to create life.
Only direct creation of each animal and human species is stated.
Either you can accept that as true, or in your desperation to explain away your reliance on God, you manufacture your own theory.
Better_Red_than_Dead
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:00pmWhy is the Bible true and the Koran false?
Report Post »60yroldfemale
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:25pmHave you actually read the Koran? Not the local Imam’s version of what it says. And the Koran doesn’t work without the Hadiths. You have to read those too.
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:28pmThe only good news here is that common sense has almost doubled in 28 years. Up to 16%!!
Hopefully, in the next 28 years this trend will continue with another doubling in numbers up to 32%.. Then truth will start to rival nonsense in the Land of the Free.
Very encouraging.
Report Post »republitarian
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:41pmI read the chart the same way. There was a low in 2000 so it’s really only taken ten years to double. The trend does not please me though.
Report Post »TakeBackAmerica
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:11pmWhy can‘t you just admit you don’t WANT to believe – the evidence is so overwhelming, even honest scientists and mathmaticians don’t buy macro-evolutionary theory. Not enough time, not enough physical evidence, and not scientifically provable. Face it dude, you just deny, deny deny.
Keep your head in the sand, it’s easier that way, right?
Report Post »TakeBackAmerica
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:13pmEnjoy, Butcher. Who has a corner on nonsense again?
http://www.mathematicsofevolution.com/ChaptersMath/Chapter_210__The_Claims_of_Evolution__.html
Report Post »Pocono Countryboy
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:30pmSo.. Lessee.. We all evolved from some form of primevil pond scum?
Yeah.. Let’s think on that for a minute.
Ok — Time’s up. If you believe that then you are a complete moron.
Report Post »60yroldfemale
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:49pmIf you are an example of common sense, God save me from that.
Report Post »GnomeChomsky
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:23pm@Pocono
Report Post »In the future, when attempting to make the case that someone else is a “moron” you might want to use spell-check or simply know how to spell basic words like primeval.
jdog777
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 8:04pmCommon sense huh??? LOL…. you pretend that the theory of evolution is just simply truth, just like “the sky is blue” and “birds sing”. Sounds like you are buying anything the religion of evolutionary science is selling to you.
Report Post »The beautiful thing about the scientific method is it ALWAYS leaves room to challenge theory. Even the theory of GRAVITY has recently been challenge. Evolution (like global warming) has somehow surpassed the rules in of the scientific method. Anybody who challenges it is immediately ostracized. Good science has been replaced with politics, grants, pride, and self gratuity.
Anteprogressive
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:27pmLooking for God in creation is like searching for the engineer in a skyscraper. We are discovering the structure, but more maturity is required to go further.
Report Post »jbl8199
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:27pmRegardless of your religion, you’d have to be pretty much an idiot to be a true atheist. Everything works too perfectly in nature NOT to believe in some kind of god or another.
Report Post »CrackerSmurf
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:24pmas really good guy to check videis on this subject is PP Simmons on youtube. he’s convinced me not only with religion but with scientific and archeological videos as well. Very smart guy.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:18pmI have more against the 38 percent of theistic evolutionists than I do the secular evolutionists. The secular evos are simply blind and have been brainwashed by the education system. But theistic evos are a dangerous lot to Christianity. My question is; why are you a Christian? Read Genesis then try to reconcile that with evolution. The two are simply not compatible, it is one or the other. If you cannot believe in Genesis then why would you believe Jesus was resurrected? Or that He provides eternal life?
If I could not believe in the complete authority of the Bible then I would be an atheist. Christianity is foolishness unless you can believe God’s Word.
BTW, science completely backs up creation and refutes evolution. But in the end they are both faiths. The only difference is evolution is speculation and creation is revelation. I will stick with revelation.
Report Post »N37BU6
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:23pm“But in the end they are both faiths.”
EXACTLY. When it comes to creation, science is faith… in science’s ability to eventually prove itself right.
Report Post »Nvrforget
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:25pm“The two are simply not compatible,”
How aren’t they? Genesis is about the origin of life. Evolution isn’t.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:31pmGenesis says God created Adam and Eve and set them in a perfect world without sin and death. It was their action that caused the curse and fall. Evolution places sin and death long before man existed. Also, Genesis plainly says the earth was created in 6 days. Genesis also plainly tells of a global, cataclysmic flood. Evolution depends on uniformity; the present is the key to the past.
Report Post »Anteprogressive
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:41pmWhat is dangerous is accepting every word of The Bible as fact when it was written before any understanding of the physical world was established. It should be read as a history book with full knowledge that the writers had a primitive understanding of reality. Let your heart guide you to the miracles, morals, the love and the truth. And let your intellect direct you away from the misinterpretations, misunderstandings, the hate and the fallacies.
Report Post »@leftfighter
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:24pmEvery place I’ve seen a scientific explaination for evolution, it always comes back to “we don’t really know” when you get down to the deepest root causes.
Also, frankly, everything I’ve every seen in science perfectly lines up with biblical explainations, once you get past the literal 7 days in Genesis, and understand that they were symbolic of stages of development.
Personally, I have a couple of favorite theories:
First, the Expanding Time theory, proposed by an Israeli physicist, Gerald Schroeder. His is a variation of the Infinite Age Theory that suggests that the first day of creation is 24 hours long, when viewed from the “beginning of time perspective” — from the perspective of the “big bang.”
The first day lasted eight billion years after the Big Bang from our perspective. (What happened in the universe at that time? “Let there be light,” Heaven & Earth. The presumption here is, Earth was the last thing done in the day, some 8 Billion years ago. Or, the estimated age of the Earth according to science.)
Each of the remaining five days lasted half as long as the previous day:
The second day lasted four billion years after the eight (total of 12 so far), after Big Bang. (What happened in the universe at that time? God created the firmament (the thich, hazy atmosphere).
The third, two billion (total of 16 Bil) (God created dry land and plants.)
The fourth, one billion, God created the sun, moon, and stars. (meaning the light actually began reaching through the hazy atmosphere)
Fifth, half a billion, God created sea creatures and birds. (Creatures evolving from the sea into dinos, into birds, etc.)
Sixth, a quarter billion, (250 million years) God created land animals and man.
This ads up to 15.75 billion years, which agrees closely with modern “big bang” cosmology. In other words, after the Big Bang, as material is at first expanding and traveling faster than light and gradually slowing, the perciever is viewing time through the prism of the speed at which he’s moving. It’s the space-time aspect of Einstein’s Theory of Relativity. I’ll admit there are multiple problems with what science says was created first, but given the God created physics, which is what the Earth’s orbit is based upon, I have to assume the “creation” of the Sun actaually refers to when the sun actually reached dirt, rather than being bounced off atmosphere. I understand there are problems, but it helps explain the time issues science has with Creation.
The differences between Infinite Age and Expanding Time are that first, Infinite Age rejects the possibility of evolution of any sort where Expanding Time allows for intelligent design, and secondly, that the two theories simply percieve time differently, one from the aspect of space-time, the other in real Earth time.
Another favorite theory of mine is similarly related. Since the Theory of Relativity proves that time is directly related to the perciever’s speed, (In other words, a second is a second, no matter where you are, *but* if you‘re moving at the speed of light and I’m not, the actual passage of your second is much, much longer than mine) if you’re approaching Earth at a fast enough speed and watching it the entire time, yes, a space-time to Earth-time coefficient in literally 7 days is a factual reality, and that God has proceeded past His creation (once he saw that it was very good), and continued creating well past the Earth. As the Jehovah (Creator) aspect of God has continued on past us creating other places and things, Jehovah-Jireh (the Provider) aspect has stayed to provide & influence world events and generally to provide.
My most favorite is the Replicated Earth thoery, (for all of the problems above), which allows for all of the above to have happened, allowed God all the time he needed to do everything that took all that time, but also allows for the literal 7 day creation. Think about it this way: How long does it take for a band to create a CD? How long does it take for you to burn an exact replica of that CD? God could have spend all those billions of years creating, then once he got everything exactly how He wanted it, he burnt a copy of Earth down to minute detail in six days & rested the seventh.
String Theory is another favorite of mine, but that’s well past the understanding of your average lay-person to get into in an open thread like this.
Check this out for more info. Very informative site: http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_world1.htm
At the end of the day, I guess I’m more of a “humans evolved with God guiding” kind of guy, if only because if that’s what happened, it doesn’t rule out Adam and Eve. It just means it didn’t happen quite as literally as past generations have thought, and it allows for past generations having an even more childlike understanding of the universe than we do.
As a child of God, won‘t it be great the day we can climb up in Daddy’s lap and ask how He did it, though? You suppose He’ll find it as humerous as we do when our three-year-olds climb up in our laps and ask childrens’-level-of-understanding questions?
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:57pmantiprogressive and leftfighter,
I do not really have the energy to get into a debate about if Genesis is literal or allegorical here. In the end it does not matter if you both know Christ. But you are doing irreparable damage to the church for no reason.
Can I simply ask you, wouldn’t you prefer to be able to understand Scripture as written, at face value? Of course there is symbolism and allegory in the Bible, but it is clear when it is being used. Check the Chicago Statement of Bible Inerrancy. What makes you feel the need to compromise? Do you believe the age of the universe and earth are proven? I can assure you they are not! I urge you both to check into the work of some of the creation scientists in recent decades, especially the RATE team. Dr. Andrew Snelling makes a great series of videos that are undergrad level but not totally dumbed down. I understand that you can easily google this name and find all sorts of trash…Believe me, I have been fighting this fight for almost a decade. But as a Christian, can I ask you to just block out the world for a while and open your hearts and minds to what he has to tell you? You both have been deceived. Yom in Genesis means 1 literal day and the whole Bible is the inspired Word of God. It is reliable in every way, including the age of the earth and the mechanics of creation. I do not question your salvation, and I do not want to fight with brothers (or sisters) in Christ. I just urge you to explore this controversy. As a YEC I do not have to compromise ANYTHING! EVERY scientific fact is accounted for in my model. In fact, I can explain all the things that has secular science stumped. But best of all, I do not have to question any part of the Bible. Like I said in my initial post here, if you have to spin Genesis to make it correlate with the secular world then how can you believe Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John? If you believe the Bible is simply a book written by the mind of man, then why believe in Christ? Why believe in His miracles and what He said? Why believe in the resurrection? How can you cherry-pick the parts of the Bible you want to believe and dismiss the rest as symbolism? How can you know that you are making the correct divisions? Maybe the crucifixion and resurrection were also merely symbolic? Maybe Jesus was just a long haired, groovy hippie teacher walking the land in his Brickenstocks? How do you know truth from lie?
Just some thoughts my brothers…
God bless you both.
Report Post »dawgPound
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 3:29am….Which is why religious folks are so scared of science. If you start believing science, one day a revelation could be made that blows the whole bible story out of the water(most smart people already have seen this) I mean a huge, overwhelming discovery that would make even the staunchest theist say “Damn!” At that point when you realize the bible and all other religions are ancient B.S. fairy tales, your gonna feel mighty stupid. Not to mention, when you look back at all the time you spent talking to yourself (praying) I almost have more respect for the ones who let their kids die instead of getting medical help. They pray their a$$es off, and the kid dies because they believe in god over science. At least those people are committed to what they believe. The rest of you are just posers, fakes. I hear you talk about “the power of prayer” SURE, whatever. Go get a cancer diagnosis and get started praying! In double blind tests, researchers found ABSOLUTELY NO HELP for patients who were prayed for, versus patients who were not prayed for. Prayer is doing nothing but feeling like you are helping in some way, it’s laughable. There is a saying “2 hands working are more than 10,000 clasped in prayer“ Next time someone asks you to help them move say ”No, but i will pray for you!” lol
Report Post »dawgPound
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 3:38am…AND ANOTHER THING !!lol…I read in your post that not only are you a creationist, you seem to be a young Earth creationist. Did you know that the technology used to date the Earth is the same tech. that is used to do DNA testing ? ( like on jerry springer and maury, blazers ) Why don‘t YEC’s just reject ALL science? Most of it is intertwined with theories and facts that fly in the face of your archaic beliefs, but you still parrot this insane biblical gibberish? In for a Penny, in for a Pound…Keep it real….It’s a FAIRY tale man!! Faith doesn’t have any answers, it just keeps you from asking questions.
Report Post »DashRipRock
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:18pmAn Athiest is someone who believes that nothing created everything.
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:24pmthat’s not true.
We just don’t know what caused the big bang.
You do?
Where’s the proof? Show it.
Report Post »N37BU6
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:29pm“An Athiest is someone who believes that nothing created everything.”
You can’t really use that argument, as it comes back to the same old question: Where did God come from? It’s the same argument.
Atheism and theism both rely on the same paradox.
Report Post »john seven eighteen
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:30pmThe matter that created the big bang had to come from somewhere! No, no one can prove either for or against this argument but the stuff didn’t just appear from nothing by itself. There had to be a helping hand, so to speak. Of course, that’s just my opinion.
Report Post »DashRipRock
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:33pmHey BUTCHER
Do you know who hated the big bang theory???
Einstein, he said it sounded like creationism and with could cause .
The big bang theory was put forth by a Roman catholic preist named George Lemaitre
her is a link Dum Bass
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:35pmThe definition of God is that He is eternal. He is the only first cause. By definition God does not have a creator, He always was.
Yeah…Hard to wrap your mind around…It just is…But philosophically speaking this argument is settled. God is the first cause. Does that prove God? No, of course not…
Report Post »Falconer
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:23pmShow you? Just look at the universe knucklehead. : )
Report Post »60yroldfemale
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:28pmbutcherman You are way too angry at Christianity to be a real atheist. I understand that Atheism is not believing.
Report Post »You have an agenda against Christians. You never criticize Islam.
Oh yeah, you say you hate all organized religions but that is just standard claptrap.
Wasn’t there a Caleb in the Bible? What did he do if you are so knowledgeable?
Steverino
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:07pmG.K. Chesterton:
“If there were no God, there would be no atheists.”
My jump, using the commutative principle:
“There are atheists, therefore, there is a God.”
Also:
“When learned men begin to use their reason, then I generally discover that they haven’t got any.”
Worth looking into:
http://www.chesterton.org/acs/quotes.htm
Merry Christmas, all.
Steve
Report Post »Better_Red_than_Dead
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:20pm@60YROLDFEMALE
“You have an agenda against Christians. You never criticize Islam.”
You realize his icon is a picture of Muhammed with a bomb for a head, the cartoon that caused such an uproar several years ago? I believe Mr. Butcher has never failed to criticize any and all religions.
Report Post »60yroldfemale
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:32pmBetter red than dead Your argument proves What? That he is skilled at taqyia (sorry about spelling,I am not Arab).
Report Post »jdog777
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:43pmbeing agnostic is NOT the same as being an Atheist.
Report Post »Dale
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 8:35pmMrButcher;
Exactly! Prove that there was a ‘big bang’. As far as I recall it is still called a theory; on that doesn’t make a lot of sense. What you propose is putting a bomb in a Yugo, detonating it, and producing a Mercedes. I think you would waste a lot of time and money to get a Mercedes that way.
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 9:35pm@all big bang skeptics–here’s a little introduction to it written by someone who was once very much like you and not convinced either. Its a good read. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/bigbangredux.html
@60yearold—I don’t hate Christians or any religious person. I do have a profound dislike and mistrust for their beliefs however. Especially when these beliefs mix with the political and educational. If I can help put any daylight between freethinking individuals and personal myths then I’ve done a good deed for America and the world. My efforts here are humanitarian (btw: the death prayers I got last week might have worked–I came down with pneumonia. but alas, i don’t think so)—-As to Caleb, do you mean Caleb of Joshua & Moses in the desert fame?
Report Post »Dale
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 9:43pmMrButcher;
I’m still waiting for your PROOF! You offer one ‘convert’ as proof? Come on, where is it – put your money where your keyboard is. Big Bang is STILL a THEORY!
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 9:57pmok, sure. its a theory.
a theory based on observable, demostratable evidence.
what’s your point?
Report Post »Dale
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 10:08pmMrButcher;
My point is that you demanded proof that there was a creation. I have a firm belief that that there was, and that God created; not only this world, but the planets, the moon, the sun, and life. My belief is just as firm as yours in your theory. Don’t challenge my belief without PROOF. Remember, you began this little flame. Now you admit that all you have is a theory, and probably think that I only have a theory – but I assure, I have much more.
Report Post »komponist-ZAH
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 10:08pmFrom an empirical point of view, it is impossible to say with certainty that there was a Big Bang, or even a beginning at all, because no one was there to witness it. But reason tells us there must have been a beginning, and the physics behind the Big Bang are pretty sound, as far as I know. The issue is whether or not it happened by chance.
Report Post »komponist-ZAH
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 11:06pmSo, then, my question (@Butcher, or Gnome, or whoever else wants to take it) is: Do you really believe your very existence is just an accident?
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 11:27am@Kom
Is there really any other way of looking at it?
I mean its a very nice and comforting thought that the vast expanses of space, time and matter (and dark matter) were created with us in mind but I think that idea reeks of self-importance and immodesty. I can see how some would find the opposite over-whelming and depressing. But I don’t see it that way. Our acheivments as a species are not to be shrugged off as an “accident.” It took alot of hard work and sacrifice to get to where we are now…I think its very beautiful.
On the contrary, I find the idea of divine creation very depressing. The main idea behind religious philosophy is the importance of the after-life. Material life is worthless to this mind-set I think. You live to die so you can enter the next plain and be rewarded and/or punished. There isn’t much motivation there for anything productive and (I use this word non-politically) progressive. Its a form of slavery.
I like not knowing. It is a great comfort to me.
Report Post »dawgPound
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 3:14amChristianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree
Report Post »NHABE64
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:18pmThat just goes to show that we are indeed a Christian Nation for any who doubt it. Contrary to what Obama spews out, we are a Christian Nation, We are NOT a muslim nation nor will we ever be. And as for those atheists who are simply confused, we need to stop paying any attention to these boneheads about anything. You put one of these so called atheists up in an airplane that is experiencing severe turbulence and they will be crying for God to help them, Just a bunch of panty waists who have not learned the Christian way. Merry Christmas to one and all!
Report Post »GnomeChomsky
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:16pmThis poll says nothing of us being a “Christian” nation. Most religions have a creation story and believe in a creator whether it be God, Allah, the sons of Bor, Prometheus, or Xenu dropping a hydrogen bomb.
Report Post »JClem17
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 9:35pmAmerica is a secular republic and it is best it stay that way.
Religion had it’s turn and gave us the Middle Ages. No need for a redo because the same result would surely occur.
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 9:42pmBravo, JCLM!!
Report Post »N37BU6
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:17pmAsk all your atheist friends to take this test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5Riuk8CNAA
Report Post »DagneyT
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:50pmThankfully, I don’t know any athiests! Not too many of them here in Texas, after all, it‘s God’s country!
Report Post »ZOMBIE JESUS LOVES ME
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:38pmEverything is bigger in Texas. (Especially your egos.)
Report Post »TexasCommonSense
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 8:49pmZOMBIE JESUS LOVES ME, yes, we’re proud of our state. For me it‘s because it’s mostly a conservative state. Our pride in our state does not mean we don’t thing there are other states which are also great. I’ve been to all of them except Minnesota and lived in many. Texas is a good place to live.
Report Post »Reagan/Demint.deciple
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 8:07am@JZS , hands over eyes ..LA,LA,LA,LA,LA,LA,LA,LA…. all gobbily goop out of your fingers..
Report Post »JackOfTrades
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 10:29pmTried that test since i am an Atheist, i got confused but that’s beside the point… its hard to say “nothing created everything”, seeing how there are a lot of theories since its difficult to go 13.7 billion yrs. and beyond. Also, i find it despicable when someone tries to disprove your beliefs, since when you get down to the point where both people have exhausted everything they know, you start answering questions with more questions, and when a new theory comes along and people start to expand on it, they’ll use that, and then go back to answering questions with questions. That’s why you should just take your beliefs and when someone asks, dont try to disprove/prove, just inform.
Report Post »Psytoxic
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:17pmAren’t the atheists saying the majority of Americans are closet atheists? That isn’t what this poll implies.
Report Post »snowleopard3200 {mix art}
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:05pmAgreed, I have one associate that is a declared, die hard atheist who will debate me on almost any matter of science to ‘disprove the alleged theory of a God being…” and such other nonsense. So far, he has not come up with an answer to the simplest of all principles involving of energy…
Energy cannot be created nor destroyed just changed.
So I ask him then, to explain how energy came about, and why could not God have simply said at the time of creation “Bang” and it was big?
Report Post »CatB
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:23pmMost athiests I have met are also narcissists. BTW … full lunar eclipse tonight.
Report Post »untameable-kate
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 8:02pmCatB are you sure it isn’t tomorrow?
Report Post »untameable-kate
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 8:27pmCatB, sorry, I should have looked it up first. I’m glad you posted that I would have missed it. Thank you: )
Report Post »JClem17
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 9:29pm@CatB
“Most athiests I have met are also narcissists. BTW … full lunar eclipse tonight.”
You are an idiot.
1. That is a non-sequitur. I have met plenty of Christians that are narcissists. Atheist come in every shape and variety. You cannot stereotype us.
2. The lunar eclipse is tomorrow night. Nice try.
Please educate yourself before you make anymore inane comments.
Report Post »komponist-ZAH
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 9:56pmThe lunar eclipse is tonight, but it will tomorrow (it’s after midnight, it starts about 1:30 am, I think).
Report Post »…But it’s cloudy where I am right now… :(
CatB
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 10:24pm@JClem17
I take it you don’t see the hand of God in anything .. and I would call tonight … anytime before morning … so if you want to wait until tomorrow night to see the eclipse .. good luck with that.
Report Post »dawgPound
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 3:13amChristianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree…sure
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:16pmA wise Christian scient teacher of mine said to us in class, “if it was evolution, who is to say that God did not direct that!”
Report Post »Curator_JDR
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:26pmScientist Gerald Schroeder is a nuclear physicist and a bible scholar. His books “The Science of God” and “GOD According to God” are excellent.
He resolves the “Six Days of Creation” with the biblical 6 twenty-four hour days of creation. Schroeder uses Einstein’s Theory of Relativity and uses the frame of reference from the instance of creation. He calls this the “universal clock” From this perspective 6 twenty-four days turn out to be SURPRISE — 15 billion years—the scientific age of “our” universe.
Schroeder also shows how evolution always occurs in radical spurts and not in a linear fashion. and Surprise! those spurts correspond to each of the “days of creation” which have different lengths from an Earth perspective.
Report Post »untameable-kate
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:30pmI have argued with people who say the Bibles’ timeline for creation does not agree with proven science. My arguement is this, how long is one day in the eye of God.
Report Post »GnomeChomsky
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 9:15pm@ Kate
Report Post »To which I would reply, if it were not 7 days as we define days, then why would God make a commandment to honor the sabbath and expect people to follow it? If it were thousands/millions of days/years as I think youre suggesting, then when is the 7th day? Is it eons from now? Are we in it now? If so everyones breaking the 3rd (or 4th) commandment 6 days a week and is going to hell.
Doc_Slammin
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 9:48pm@untameable-kate To further your argument, if God understands what is unfathomable to us in regards to creation, then what human being can -truthfully- say, that a 6 day creation is impossible? If you believe in God, you have to acknowledge His miracles, they are all around you; and a 6 day creation would, definitely, fall in the miracle category.
Our understanding is, still, very limited when you scale it to God’s understanding of what we call “science”.
Report Post »ChyCremer
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:15pmi think God uses science and therefore is the freewill He gave us. now i personally believe He created humans but i dont think we were exactly like we are now…i do not believe we came from a ape type creature though…but that is MY Belief. Thank God we dont all have to agree on everything :)
Report Post »Joseff
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:39pmGod created science. He created all the physiucal laws and processes that the universe operates on. He not only built the computer, he wrote all the programming.
Joe
Report Post »snowleopard3200 {mix art}
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:11pmThe more I look at the congress and other world governments, I have to wonder if the apes are actually descended from Politicians.
Report Post »60yroldfemale
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:18pmJoe you are so right. the ‘computer’ that is our brain is so amazing as to send you to your knees at the very thought of it.
Report Post »God gave us choice.
If you took someone back in time to live in the 1300′s they would die from things were do not have immunities to. Lack of sanitation alone would kill us. Yet we can survive a lot more things than they can. We are exposed every day to electrons and radiation from all the devices we regularly use that they (13 C humans) could not endure.
Evolving was part of God’ plan when he gave us these brains that can conceive all of these amazing things.
komponist-ZAH
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 9:50pm@Snow–
Report Post »HAHA! Bobo the chimp for Congress! It would be an improvement. And I don’t think we can wait for the Politicians to evolve again.
Reagan/Demint.deciple
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 8:04am@ SKATAWANDI ,, Excellent my friend.. I trust, but I am going to verify ..It make take a day or two, but I have the time over this long CHRISTMAS weekend.. Thanks for posting, this ought to give the left something to think about..
Report Post »IndyGuy
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:13pmThink about it…If God wanted to create life with it’s own means of changing with the environment He would also create evolution…
Report Post »john seven eighteen
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:27pmI just don’t understand how anyone can look at the wondrous world around us, above us and below us and believe that it is all just an accident, that it (and us) was not created by God.
Skatawandi
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:48pmHere is the math to prove evolution is impossible. Did you the probability for one protein to have evolved is 10 to the 75th power. Cool huh? Did you know that you need 60,000 proteins in 100 different configurations just for ONE simple cell? That means that the probability for ONE SIMPLE CELL to evolve is 10 to the ready? 4,478,296 power. That is a BIT of a problem. Did you know the number when something stops being statistically probable and becomes statistically IMPOSSIBLE? The number is 10 to the 150th power. So for a simple cell to have happened by chance is statistically impossible by a POWER of 4,478,146. Face the fact: LIFE was created.
Report Post »NoMoreGray
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:49pmOr as Darwin said
Report Post »Eight years before his death Darwin said that “the impossibility of conceiving that this grand and wondrous universe, with our conscious selves, arose through chance, seems to me the chief argument for the existence of God”.
snowleopard3200 {mix art}
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 5:49pmThere is a interesting book out a few years ago called the “Fingerprint of God” in which a mathmatician calculated the total odds of probability for spontanious evolution of life into humanity; and I would recommend it for reading – it is written in plain english, and the gentleman in record was a avowed atheist until undertaking this calculation.
Report Post »Curator_JDR
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:15pmThis gives me hope that America, in the end, is the nation of common sense and belief in God, just like the founders were. After all, if science says the universe just happened – just exploded into reality then what explains the stuff that exploded….. where did it come from? And why is science logical and provable if the universe came from chaos? We can easily perceive the difference between chaos and order so why is there any order, if everything is birthed in illogical chaos?
And there is a history of following God’s laws on earth, from the beginning of civilization. Listen to Historic Israel National Radio Interview with artist Marc Rubin on authentic ancient history: http://www.marcrubin.com/judean-eve.ivnu . You will learn how people throughout the entire ancient world followed the “Laws of Noah”, and you will learn about the ancient “Progressives” (thugs) who did not and caused many problems.
People who don’t believe in God fall into the mindset of trying to make utopian societies where man replaces God. That is evident with a vocal minority of Americans today. Learn where they got their agenda and talking points…from the “Dada Anti-Art” movement and how the Progressive (thugs) adopted their playbook to infiltrate every aspect of society and culture
Video Expose “Dada – The Enemy of Liberty” http://www.marcrubin.com/dada2.ivnu
Report Post »Polwatcher
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:31pmThe universe is so complex that it may be impossible for us to ever understand. That alone is proof of a higher being who IS able to understand. Add to this the beauty of our surroundings and there is no question about it.
Report Post »TexasCommonSense
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 6:42pmI certainly don’t thing God exists in the evolution of our government. The people currently leading this country are trying their hardest to steer us away from God. As everyone knows, we are endowed ____ with certain inalienable rights.
Report Post »Nvrforget
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:06pm@Texascommonsense
Nope, if I were God I wouldn’t touch our current government with a ten foot pole and would deny all claims of me being involved in that.
Report Post »guyperram
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:07pmTexascommonsense: You missed the words We are endowed with certain GOD GIVEN inailenable rights….
Report Post »Those are very important words.The rights enumerated are only part of the 28 God given rights.
If you haven’t already done so I highly recommend the book “The 5000 Year leap”. as you read it you will probably get somewhat upset at just how far off track we really are.
untameable-kate
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:26pmI believe TEXAS left those words out on purpose to quote our dear muslim loving president.
Report Post »Dale
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 7:27pmThank you, Skatawandi. Not a biologist, but I understand numbers – and you have provided some reeeeealy big numbers.
Report Post »TexasCommonSense
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 8:46pmguyperram, you’re right, I did leave out those words. I was mocking the POTUS, who left them out of his speech on at least three different occasions. They want you to believe these rights were granted, not by your creator, but by government. If you believe they are granted by the government, then you’ll also believe government can take them away from you.
Report Post »Agentuntomyself
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 10:08pm@Skatawandi,
Report Post »Cool! I have never heard that before.
Malachai
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 11:14pm@ SKATAWANDI : This has been debunked repeatedly. In a nutshell, your math is bad. Furthermore, we‘re already finding that it’s possible to find simple forms of life elsewhere.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 11:20pmIf you were to critically & collectively evaluate the evidence in biology, astronomy, cosmology, anthropology, paleontology & archaeology I don’t see how you could come to the conclusion that Evolution is anything more than a house of cards built on shifting sand. Evolution just isn’t backed up by the evidence, PERIOD. Where are all of the Precambrian missing links? What about the irreducible complexity of even the “simplest” of cells? Why aren’t there more people on Earth if Man appeared 200,000 to 2,000,000 years ago? Why are fossils only discovered in sedimentary rock, as if buried during a catastrophic flood? Why can’t scientists show that mutations result in information being added at the genetic level? Why does archaeology reveal that civilizations sprang up simultaneously around the world about 5,000 years ago?
Furthermore, if the first man didn’t cause sin to come into the world through rebellion, Christians cannot defend the position that God is good. Think about it, that would mean God created the current messed up world where there is cruelty, pain, suffering and death. If you’re a Christian who believes in Evolution, you either believe God is inept and that he was incapable of creating a perfect world, or you believe God is cruel and that he purposefully created a world where there is a lot of suffering. Either way, why would such a God have come to earth as Jesus? From the perspective that man brought suffering into the world with the first sin, a loving God coming to earth as Jesus to die for the sins of men and returning a second time to deliver justice makes a lot of sense. From the perspective that God created a screwed up world where the natural inclination of men is to do evil, God coming to earth as Jesus makes no sense whatsoever. Besides, how can you believe anything in the Bible, if you can’t believe the very first chapter?
Report Post »Modawg734Blue
Posted on December 20, 2010 at 11:49pm@all
Report Post »It is funny to listen to a person who believes in evolution accuse Christians of blind faith. I fully agree with adaptation, but science has proven the DNA remains the same. Every mutation that occures in nature, is a detriment to survival. What are the odds of the kind of simultaneous benificial mass mutation that would be required to create a new form of life? Think about it if there are only two or three that mutate at a given period what would be the odds of survival for a species? Now what do we see in reality. cow + cow = cow, dog + dog = you guessed it, dog. evolution would have you believe duck + duck = chichen. Somehow the math just doesn’t add up. Now if you multiply this by the diversity of life on this planet, the odds of life as we know it happening by chance are so astonomical that it would be impossible in the natural. The only explaination is that life is not by accident, but by design. If it is by design, than there has to be a designer. So, honestly which version is requires more “blind faith”? If you would bother to read the owners manual, you might learn that my faith isn’t so blind after all. And, it’s explaination of how life began is a lot more mathmatically probable.
komponist-ZAH
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 12:04am@MODAWG–
This is a problem with evolutionary theory I have not seen addressed (perhaps it has been, though). One thing is that the concept of “species” is really a concept of human (artificial) classification, and not necessarily a natural phenomenon.
More than that however, it is highly unlikely that individuals of two genetically different breeding groups can produce fertile offspring.
Report Post »jzs
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 12:12amI’m actually a big fan of God, religion and particularly Christianity, except when those concepts lead to hatred and violence, which is not at all what Christ taught.
But the world is not 10,000 years old. More like 5 billion. Dinosaurs and humans did not coexist. Nor is evolution a myth, despite debate about the particulars. That poll is a reflection of the lack of education in America. Either that or God is this the greatest practical joker ever, making Earth look very old (carbon dating, the salinity of the oceans, the movement of the continents, all the geology of the planet) and the universe look very old (the expansion based on Doppler effect, the distribution of helium in stars, the cosmic background radiation come immediatly to mind). No educated person doubts the great age of the Earth or the universe, or evolution for that matter.
That doesn‘t mean God doesn’t exist. Even Einstein believed in God, or seemed too. But what science does show is that, if the Earth is only 10,000 years old, then God played one colossal joke on mankind by making everything appear old to those who would study Earth, and make evolution obvious to those who study life.
Don’t underestimate God based on your own ignorance. Maybe he’s played a big joke on all of us, or maybe he had his own ideas about how the universe and life on Earth, and elsewhere, should be created.
Report Post »jmparrish
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 6:06amThe Case for a Creator
(check it out on netflix it is truely a great documentary that puts forth the new scientific evidence that all of creation has a Creator)
“From a Knowlage of God’s Work we shall know him”
Robert Boyal, Father of Modern Chemistry
Scientific Evidence points to God . . .
All the heavyweights of science in history, including Issac Newton and Einstein believed in a Creator
Darwin’s Theory:
Science‘s understanding of the Cell in the second half of the 20th century has shaken the foundation of Darwin’s Theory…he thought the cell was a small blob of jellow, very simple…we now know that is false…Cells are more complex then Darwin could have ever imagined…the staggering complexity of the molecular machinery within a cell almost completely destroys Darwin’s theory…the Bacteria flagella motor is considered the most efficient machine in the universe running at over 100,000 rpms., it has 2 gears forward, water cooled, has a rotor, u joint, drive shaft, a propeller, that is not the name we gave them it is their function, in all about 40 different parts make up the motor…
What Darwin was trying to show was that naturalistic processes by chance account for the complexity of life…every part of every organism evolved from naturalistic processes over a long time through natural selection…a blind process that acts on random changes in the cell…
Irreducible Complexity: a challenge of Darwin
U have multicompnent parts in any given organal or system in a cell all of which are necessary for function…think of a mouse trap…u take away any part of it and it cant work…all components must be present for the machine to function…this applies to the bacteria flagellium.
U cant put together a machine gradually because u need every part interacting with eachother at the same time for it to work at all…
Charles Darwin wrote in Origin of Species
“If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possible have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modification slight modifications my theory would absolutely break down.”
What has been discovered is the existince of microbiological machinery that can not be explained away by darwinian processes…
This is only one of the many valid scientific arguments that hold water and point in the direction of intelligent design
Report Post »jmparrish
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 6:22amHubble’s discovery that the universe is expanding points to a Creator…because that means the universe at some point had an absolute beginning at some point in the finite past…
(ancient) The Kalam Cosmological Argument: Theological deduction begins here:
1st premise… Whatever begins to exist has a cause
2nd premise… The universe began to exist…solid scientific evidence supports this second premise
3rd…The universe has a cause of its existince…this points to a reality beyond the universe
“There is no ground for supposing that matter and evergy existed before and were suddenly galvanized into action.”
Report Post »jmparrish
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 7:10amBecause we humans have no conscept of what occured before the singularity (creation of the universe) who can say it did not take 6 days to create a singularity event?
Get real athiests and use logic…evidence points to a Creator and quit trying to nit pick at the Bible…we all know it is an ancient document that suprise suprise keeps being validated…Noah’s Arch? its been basically found…granted maybe not every animal in the world was on it…but maybe every useful animal in Noah’s world was….Saddam and Gomarroah, theory says that it was burned up by an astroid or meteor, that hit up in Europe, the shallow trajectory of that nature actually rains down fire, quite amazing actually; i cant remember where the documentary i watched on the subject said it hit, but that is beside the point, Joshua’s battle of Jerico…theory says a large army marching around a city can cause seismic disturbances large enough to break down masonry…giants? how about giantism, or simply tribes of large people; maybe u have a problem with the old testimate…well there is a new one that rendered the old one obsolete for those who chose the new testimate over the old…i could go on and on
Report Post »BigMG
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 7:17amTo jzs particularly. I glad you like God, so do I. Problem with the ‘Christian’ version of creationism is that I can’t find 6,000 or 10,000 or any other specific time. We read ‘days’ as in solar revolutions, but the term is more appropriate to periods.
Report Post »What the detractors love most is confusing the main issue with minor misunderstandings.
And, perhaps it is the need for real education, not indoctrination. The bandied about statement that Evolution has been tested, blah, blah, blah… is not accurate.
They shout down negative reviews with name calling and tenure denial.
Same people out in the woods gluing black moths to black trees…
Modern Patriot
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 8:43amI’ve been a believer all my life. Over the past couple of years I have been following apologetics. There is one in particular that I really like and his name is Frank Turek. At a conference I attended he made a statement that I absolutely love to use every chance I get. He said, Its not that Christians don’t believe in the Big Bang Theory, it’s just that we know who Banged It! He has a book that is excellent for both Christians and non believers that are able to look at facts with an open mind. He also tackles the scientific aspects as well. It’s called “I Don’t Have Enough Faith To Be an Atheist” by Norman L. Geisler/Frank Turek.
It’s sad but most Atheists and Agnostics know more about the bible than Christians do. If you want to be able to defend Christianity when dealing with these types of people then this is a great book to start with.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 21, 2010 at 10:03amJZK, you THINK the world is more like 5 billion years old. Unless you were around when the earth first came to be, you have no idea and so-called scientific dating methods that place the age of the earth at several billion years old are woefully flawed. Are you aware that radioisotope dating of rocks from the dome of Mt. St. Helens “prove” that those rocks are millions of years old? Let me remind you that those rocks were formed 30 years ago after Mt. St. Helens’ 1980 eruption. Also, are you aware that archaeologists have discovered pottery and burial stones in Peru with depictions of dinosaurs? It would seem like those artisans must have known what dinosaurs looked like. Furthermore, a T. Rex was recently unearthed that contains fresh blood cells in the marrow of its bones. To think that blood cells could survive 70 million years is absurd. I would say that you are correct when it comes to opinions about Evolution being a reflection of widespread ignorance in America and a poor reflection of our education system, but not for the same reason as you apparently believe. Public school children are ignorant about such matters, because they are taught Evolution is a fact and they are ridiculed if they dare raise legitimate questions which debunk Evolution. That is not education, that is indoctrination.
Report Post »dawgPound
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 3:09amChristianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree……Sure THAT makes sense…..
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