Science

‘Very, Very Preliminary Result’: CERN Scientists Tentatively ‘Find’ Infamous God Particle

CERN Data Points to New Particle That Could Be Higgs Boson But Further Science Needed to Confirm Finding

(Image: CERN)

GENEVA (The Blaze/AP) — Scientists at the world’s largest atom smasher on Wednesday had an announcement. The long-sought-after “God Particle” — more scientifically known as the Higgs boson — has been found*.

(Related: Did physicists really find the God Particle this time?)

*By found, the scientists at the European Center for Nuclear Research (CERN) mean their data has shown a new particle that is “consistent” with the what they would expect of the Higgs boson. So why not come right out and say they’ve officially found the particle they believe will help explain what gives all matter in the universe size and shape?

CERN Research Director Sergio Bertolucci said in a statement that it is “hard not to get excited by these results” but, as the CMS experiment spokesperson puts it, the ”implications are very significant and it is precisely for this reason that we must be extremely diligent in all of our studies and cross-checks.”

Watch this Reuters report where scientists call this a “very, very preliminary result”:

CERN Director Rolf Heuer told scientists who received the announcement with applause that what researchers have found is a missing “cornerstone.”

He said the newly discovered subatomic particle is a boson, but he stopped just shy of claiming outright that it is the Higgs boson itself – an extremely fine distinction.

“As a layman, I think we did it,” he told the elated crowd. “We have a discovery. We have observed a new particle that is consistent with a Higgs boson.”

Check out this slideshow showing pictures from the announcement event:

The Higgs boson, which until now has been a theoretical particle, is seen as the key to our understanding of why matter has mass, which combines with gravity to give an object weight. The idea is much like gravity and Isaac Newton’s discovery of it: Gravity was there all the time before Newton explained it. But now scientists know what a boson is and can put that knowledge to further use.

CERN’s atom smasher, the $10 billion Large Hadron Collider on the Swiss-French border, has been creating high-energy collisions of protons to investigate dark matter, antimatter and the creation of the universe, which many theorize occurred in a massive explosion known as the Big Bang.

Two independent teams at CERN said Wednesday they have both “observed” a new subatomic particle – a boson. Heuer called it “most probably a Higgs boson, but we have to find out what kind of Higgs boson it is. ”

Asked whether the find is a discovery, Heuer answered, “As a layman, I think we have it. But as a scientist, I have to say, `”What do we have?’ ”

The leaders of the two teams – Joe Incandela, head of CMS with 2,100 scientists, and Fabiola Gianotti, head of ATLAS with 3,000 scientists – each presented in complicated scientific terms what was essentially extremely strong evidence of a new particle.

Incandela said it was too soon to say definitively whether it is the “standard model” Higgs that Scottish physicist Peter Higgs and others predicted in the 1960s. That was part of a standard model theory of physics involving an energy field where particles interact with a key particle, the Higgs boson. Asked his opinion, Higgs said he also could not yet say.

The stunning work elicited standing ovations and frequent applause at a packed auditorium in CERN as Gianotti and Incandela each took their turn.

Incandela called it “a Higgs-like particle“ and said ”we know it must be a boson and it’s the heaviest boson ever found.”

“Thanks, nature!” Gianotti said to laughs, giving thanks for the discovery.

The phrase “God particle” was coined by Nobel Prize-winning physicist Leon Lederman but is used by laymen, not physicists, as an easier way of explaining how the subatomic universe works and got started.

Comments (100)

1 2
  • COFemale
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 4:33pm

    This is a great discovery where ever it may lead. Whether you call it a Higgs-boson or “God Particle”, it does not matter to me. I am curious how everything came about, as a Christian I will attribute it to God and his hands. Non Christians will attribute it to “oh by the way we happened to connect by accident” and poof.

    Report Post » COFemale  
    • iampraying4u
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 6:22pm

      10 billion dollars ?

      Report Post »  
    • Conservative-Atheist
      Posted on July 10, 2012 at 4:32pm

      Non Christians will attribute it to “oh by the way we happened to connect by accident” and poof.

      Yea, that’s exactly what non-believers are thinking. LMAO!

      Report Post » Conservative-Atheist  
  • georgepatton
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 4:10pm

    Wanna bet one of Obammy’s donors got a massive research grant for that?

    Report Post »  
    • COFemale
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 4:39pm

      This is overseas. Funding comes from the scientific communities and other countries. It is possible some money came from the Obama Administration, but the Bush admin also probably contributed. What is your point. Your insinuation is disingenuous.

      Report Post » COFemale  
    • Bruce P.
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:28pm

      So what if they did? It is good work. They made an important discovery.

      Report Post » Bruce P.  
    • dblaess
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:39pm

      @ COFemale
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 4:39pm
      This is overseas. Funding comes from the scientific communities and other countries. It is possible some money came from the Obama Administration, but the Bush admin also probably contributed. What is your point. Your insinuation is disingenuous.
      ——————————————————————————————————————–
      I don’t think you understood. Science good, therefore, president Obama gave money, which was the only way any good can happen, and now they can rename the Higgs-Boson particle, the Obama particle. Likewise as you said Bush may have given money but the project could not, and did not, work until Obama got on board to show the scientists how to do the job. Just remember, all bad is Bush’s fault for the rest of time. What insinuation did you think the writer was making?

      Report Post »  
  • georgepatton
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 4:08pm

    Give me a call when that ‘MONKEY’S- FLYIN’- OUTTA- YOUR- BUTT -THING HAPPENS’!

    Report Post »  
  • georgepatton
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 4:04pm

    AH,YEAH..OK!
    Don’t bogart that joint DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Report Post »  
  • Bruce P.
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 2:38pm

    Since we actually have evidence for it’s existence, can we stop calling it the “God” particle?

    Report Post » Bruce P.  
  • 321481
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 2:06pm

    So where did the “god” particle come from? Who put is particle there to begin with?

    Report Post »  
  • TADTAD
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 2:06pm

    If, every time I got something from nothing, I’d have everything. Thank You Jesus, thank You Lord.

    Report Post » TADTAD  
  • MTSchmidt
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 1:24pm

    I do not think this particle disproves God. (this is not to say that there will be some that will try to use this for that reason) My understanding of this, from one of my buddies that is an aerospace engineer, is that this discovery will help us find the equation for the universal constant. If that is true, than that could radically advance our understanding of physics and by consequence, the furthering of our technology. (my engineer friend is secretly hoping that it will help us in creating the Enterprise…we are geeks) This again, however, does NOT rattle my faith, because I know that God is the Creator of the “god particle.”

    Report Post » MTSchmidt  
    • inblack
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 3:21pm

      The “god particle” has nothing to do with God. It is some silly scientist’s irreverent attempt to attach more importance to a science project.

      It is no more a God particle than the last key piece of the puzzle you work on is a God piece.

      Science is a continuing journey to understand creation, not God. It will have many more important puzzle pieces, but I can assure you this is not the last and most likely not the most important.

      Report Post »  
    • MTSchmidt
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 3:39pm

      I was more focused on what this discovery will do for science. The only reason I mentioned God in this is because many people keep talking about it in the comment section. I think this is a great discovery that will help us advance our technology.

      Report Post » MTSchmidt  
  • MicahJank
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 1:12pm

    And the question begging continues….

    Cool discovery though.

    Report Post » MicahJank  
  • inblack
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 12:30pm

    @BLAZE

    Please do not use God’s name in vain.

    Report Post »  
    • Inkmage
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 4:24pm

      @INBLACK

      God is just a title, and not a name, if it was called the Jehovah, or YHWH particle then yeah lol, and the names mean salvation.

      Report Post » Inkmage  
  • thegreatcarnac
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 11:41am

    Isn’t a boson a big cow like animal that roamed the American prairie.????? Oh……….bison. Nevermind.

    Report Post »  
  • pantokrator
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 9:46am

    If the Higgs Boson is a particle then it is a finite object living in the finite dimension of time and space, and therefore had itself a beginning. Simple as that.

    Report Post »  
    • INTHEBROTHERHOOD
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 11:49pm

      so right my friend …soooo right

      Report Post » INTHEBROTHERHOOD  
    • INTHEBROTHERHOOD
      Posted on July 5, 2012 at 12:07am

      both of you guys with all your creative wording have said nothing…….God made it ….says everything..
      unfortunatly, only to those who know Him.

      Report Post » INTHEBROTHERHOOD  
  • DagneyT
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:48am

    How scientists would love to announce they have discovered the Creator is a sub-atomic particle.

    Report Post » DagneyT  
  • burgher23
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:48am

    “professing themselves wise, they became fools”

    Report Post »  
    • rickc34
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 11:54am

      amen, how hard they try to disprove God so they can live their wicked lives with no morals.

      Report Post »  
    • SoNick
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 12:07pm

      Who said they were trying to disprove god? No credible scientists embarks on the journey of a lifetime to disprove the existence of the supernatural. Ever heard of Laplace’s cosmological treatise? About how Napoleon had asked him were God was in his work? Laplace famously replied : “Sir, I had no need of that hypothesis”. This is what scientists do: they search for the truth without having to resort to supernatural explanations. If God disappears in the process, it‘s not by the scientist’s intent; it‘s just the result of Occam’s razor: shave away all the useless stuff and get to the simplest explanation. Saying “God did it” all the time explains nothing. It,s arguing from ignorance and it is quite simply antithetical to the human spirit of discovery.

      Report Post »  
    • inblack
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 12:28pm

      @SONICK

      Thanks for that idiotic reply.

      So religious people argue from a position of ignorance?
      No, scientist are the ones that argue from a position of ignorance.

      If we were not ignorant, we wouldn’t need scientists. Exploration is only exploration, and for that matter fun, when we are ignorant. Omniscient being do not explore.

      Anyway, why do you hate religious people so much. What God has revealed to us does not hurt you. In fact much of it is the basis for science both technically and organizationally. I’m always amazed when self described superior thinkers need to put down others.

      Just be happy God gave you a brain and logic and curiosity and enjoy the exploration. Don’t let your self-doubt make you a hater.

      Embrace your ignorance and enjoy exploring God’s creation.

      Report Post »  
    • Bruce P.
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 1:44pm

      INBLACK — an argument from ignorance is not the scientists position — an exploration of the universe in order to eliminate our ignorance is not an “argument from ignorance.” In fact, argument from ignorance has a very specific definition…

      “the claim that whatever has not been proved false must be true, and vice versa.” — Carl Sagan, “The Demon-Haunted World”

      Sonick’s definition was closer to the nature of an “argument from ignorance” though the “God-in-the-Gaps” is a much better fit. The “God-in-the-Gaps” logical fallacy is where, faced with ignorance (or the inability to explain an observed phenomenon) one claims that “God” (or aliens, or faeries or ghosts, so forth) is the explanation.

      “Anyway, why do you hate religious people so much…I’m always amazed when self described superior thinkers need to put down others.”

      Complete non-sequitur…a red herring and appeal to spite. Sonick said nothing about hating God, nor did he put anyone down. Just the opposite, he was criticizing the idea that scientists, in searching for the Higgs boson, were trying to disprove God. In your attack on Sonick, you have exposed your own prejudices.

      “Embrace your ignorance and enjoy exploring God’s creation.”

      A good summary of organized religion.

      Report Post » Bruce P.  
    • inblack
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 2:59pm

      @BRUCE P.

      This is more of a straw man argument that you used.

      “Sonick said nothing about hating God”

      OK, I never said he said anything about hating God.

      You show your closed mindedness when you make an argument like this…
      “faced with ignorance (or the inability to explain an observed phenomenon) one claims that “God” (or aliens, or faeries or ghosts, so forth) is the explanation.”

      1) God is part of recorded history. Jesus was here on earth. The fact that you ignore it is a form of ignorance.

      2) Like ether, the Higgs boson particle and theory is exactly a claim in the face of “the inability to explain an observed phenomenon”. The fact that you think that a particle theory is more real than God is your ignorant opinion.

      Like you SONICK did directly attack religious people and their belief in God as fairies etc.

      I claim the upper ground here. I accept my ignorance and I accept the possibility of the particle theory and the possibility of God. You do not admit your ignorance and do not appear to be open to the existence of God.

      Report Post »  
    • SoNick
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 3:23pm

      @INBLACK
      You’re not very good at this debating thing, are you? First off, kudos to my new champion, Bruce P, for writing the very reply I was going to adress to you. he also very correctly pointed out that the “God of the Gaps” fallacy was a better proposition than “argumentum ad ignorantiam”.

      Back to your reply, Inblack:

      you start by saying my post is idiotic, yet you address none of the points I made. You suggest that I have a deep hatred of religious people yet I have made no comment that would suggest this. You obviously know nothing about the work of scientists, yet you conclude that they are arrogant fools hellbent on disproving the very idea of God. You suggest that God is a “historical” reality and that the Boson which was just observed at the CERN, is a fantasy. And to top it all off, you conclude by saying that refusing scientific evidence somehow makes you morally superior.

      I’m sorry, but I have to end this post by restating the obvious: as morally superior as you think you are, you’re still not good at this whole logical debating thing.

      Report Post »  
    • inblack
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:25pm

      @SONICK

      1) You start your reply admitting that your primary proposition “argument from ignorance” was wrong.
      – FAIL, but now we agree on something

      2) You say “…you address none of the points I made.”
      – Wrong, my entire post was in response to your use of the term “arguing from ignorance”.

      3) You say “You obviously know nothing about the work of scientists”.
      – Wrong, you said I know “nothing” really? Simply knowing the scientific method, makes your statement false.

      4) You say “you conclude that they are arrogant fools hellbent on disproving the very idea of God”.
      – Never said it. Look at my post.

      5) You said “You suggest that God is a “historical” reality and that the Boson which was just observed at the CERN, is a fantasy.”
      – No, I said it was a theory developed to explain something of which we are ignorant – specifically mass.

      6) You said “And to top it all off, you conclude by saying that refusing scientific evidence somehow makes you morally superior.”
      – Wrong, I said that I was open minded and you are closed minded.

      So you made six points and they were all wrong. You think you are good at debating?

      My high ground is that I am open minded to both science and God.
      You deny God and are close minded.
      BTW, I did not mention moral high ground, that was your error.

      My high ground is that YOU state the fallicy that

      Report Post »  
    • Bruce P.
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:27pm

      INBLACK — “OK, I never said he said anything about hating God.” While you are right, it is splitting hairs. You have accused us both of hating religious people, when we said nothing of the sort.

      “1) God is part of recorded history. Jesus was here on earth. The fact that you ignore it is a form of ignorance.”

      Jesus may have been a historical figure, but it is not proof he was divine or that God exists. Gilgamesh is accepted as a historical king, but that hardly proves his divinity or that the gods of Sumer existed.

      “2) Like ether, the Higgs boson particle and theory is exactly a claim in the face of “the inability to explain an observed phenomenon”.”

      No, a God-in-the-Gaps argument relies on something being explained by virtue of it being unexplained. That is not how science, in the search for the Higgs boson for example, operates. While we may hypothesize that such a particle would be responsible for our observations, that hypothesis is not the end game. It must be tested.

      The fact that you think that a particle theory is more real than God is your ignorant opinion.”

      Not ignorant at all. We can observe particles. For those particles we have yet to directly observe, we can observe their affect on the universe. We cannot observe god.

      Report Post » Bruce P.  
    • Bruce P.
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:31pm

      INBLACK — “Like you SONICK did directly attack religious people and their belief in God as fairies etc.”

      I made no such attack. Yes, I did mention faeries, in the same sentence I mentioned ghosts and aliens…because believers in all such things frequently employ the “God-in-the-Gaps” argument.

      “I accept my ignorance and I accept the possibility of the particle theory and the possibility of God. You do not admit your ignorance and do not appear to be open to the existence of God.”

      Who says I am not open? I am open to evidence. I have yet to see it, though.

      Report Post » Bruce P.  
    • INTHEBROTHERHOOD
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 11:55pm

      bur…wrong scripture…..God made the discovery of His glorious works possible…..with every new finding we can see more of His unfathomable beauty.

      Report Post » INTHEBROTHERHOOD  
    • SoNick
      Posted on July 5, 2012 at 8:07am

      sorry inblack, but I have no intention of pursuing this pointless conversation with you. I will let others enjoy the pleasure of debating with your “open mind”. You can tell them all about how you schooled me with your rhetorical brilliance.

      Report Post »  
  • Rayblue
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:36am

    The atheists will want it removed from textbooks.
    It’s just a matter of time now.

    Report Post » Rayblue  
  • SamIamTwo
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:30am

    Infamous?

    Having an extremely bad reputation, disreputable, ill-famed, notorious, disgraceful, scandalous. In other words, being famous/well-known for doing a bad thing.

    God is good…perhaps their intent is infamous, eh? LOL

    Report Post » SamIamTwo  
  • vaughan
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:19am

    So…scientists have ALMOST discovered something. Is this another… ‘hold the back page’ …moment?

    Report Post »  
  • ReardenSteel
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:15am

    I know that there has to be a name for the “discipline” but there are no such things as particles. Our constituent parts are just coherent fields. The simplest model of an elemental “particle” is a vortex. There is no “particle” that orders the geometry of the rest of the particles. That information is whatever orders the medium (God). This principal is why even macro objects are interacted with so easily by “tuned” kinetic or electromagnetic enegy……….. The “medium” becomes extruded into a line of coherence (1 dimensionality). To condense : By the time the initial “line” has traversed a two dimensional cirle ( the ends of which are kept from meeting by “tuning” , like poles of a magnet) you have a vortex in 3 dimensions.The degree of displacement between those two ends that don’t meet becomes the angle of slope in the vortex and is a key component to a “sub-atomic” particles’ “geometry”.

    Report Post »  
    • SilentDove
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 11:10am

      Oh wow…. Are you for real?

      Report Post »  
    • Stoic one
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 12:29pm

      cirle….. this has a meaning- did you perhaps mistype ‘circle’? with the first you are meaningless- with the second well…then we have something!

      Report Post » Stoic one  
    • Twobyfour
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:41pm

      @ReardenSteel

      “…there are no such things as particles. Our constituent parts are just coherent fields.”

      Correct, at least partially. With the addition of frequency/amplitude and mutual interference/resonance patterns.

      “The simplest model of an elemental “particle” is a vortex.”

      Provided that it is considered a “MODEL”, that crude facsimile would suffice. On a deeper level, it is a structure consisting of interference patterns.

      “There is no “particle” that orders the geometry of the rest of the particles.”

      Again, agreed. The geometry/topology is a result of fields interaction. Or one may say an illusion, though on our operational resolution, we would reckon it as an apparent geometry.

      “That information is whatever orders the medium (God).”

      Or God’s “word” for that matter. Which is an allusion to frequencies/resonances and interferences.

      “This principal”

      You mean “principle”, not a head of a school or a loan term?

      “…is why even macro objects are interacted with so easily by “tuned” kinetic or electromagnetic energy… The “medium” becomes extruded into a line of coherence (1 dimensionality). To condense : By the time the initial “line” has traversed a two dimensional circle …”

      There are no singularity (1D) or 2D in reality. They are just abstractions, models devised for a comprehension of certain aspects of reality and that is where it ends. There is no EMF lines reconnection as some solar physici

      Report Post » Twobyfour  
    • Twobyfour
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:47pm

      There is no EMF lines reconnection as some solar physicists claim or incorrectly conceptualize. It is all coherent fields, with various degrees of density and vortex organization.

      Report Post » Twobyfour  
  • randy
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:13am

    And who made the Higgs Boson?
    GOD
    I‘d would not be surprised if they changed it’s name to the Obama Particle

    Report Post » randy  
    • ScienceIsNotEvil
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:23am

      Do you people have to inject politics into every last thing you talk about?

      Report Post »  
    • SilentDove
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 11:03am

      @scienceisnotevil

      I live with a “Blazer” and the answer is without question – hell yes they do…

      Report Post »  
  • Lightman98
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 7:57am

    Praise God! More specifically, we may call this the Jesus particle. For God’s Word says in Colossians 1:15-17, “He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all Creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” So, Jesus is supremum.

    Report Post »  
    • qpwillie
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:04am

      “we may call this the Jesus particle.”

      Particles are physical entities. Every particle is a product of the physical universe and had to be created by someone or something.

      Report Post » qpwillie  
  • sawbuck
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 7:51am

    What a waste….All this time and money just to try and prove… that God doesn’t exist.

    Report Post » sawbuck  
    • ScienceIsNotEvil
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:06am

      What are you going on about?

      Report Post »  
    • sawbuck
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:24am

      Hey.. back to work ….Satan never sleeps..
      and neither does his trolls.

      Report Post » sawbuck  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:50am

      And what is wrong with using science to understand matter? There is nothing anti-religious about using science. If you want to live in an unscientific world, by all means, do so, but to condemn those of us who love and embrace science is rather high and mighty of you, don’t you think?

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • sawbuck
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 9:24am

      JHRUSKY
      Nothing high and mighty about me…

      I’m not the one spending billions of dollars .. trying to prove a point…

      And…

      Isn’t their a danger of doing some of these test…?

      I have heard real concerns on this matter..

      What would happen if by some unforeseen danger ..
      By doing these unproven …never done before experiments…

      They “contaminated “ ALL …the drinking water in the world…

      Report Post » sawbuck  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 11:04am

      @ sawbuck

      And what would happen if when first experimenting with penicillin they would have turned everyone that used it into a monkey?
      You quite obviously do not understand the issues that have already PROVABLY risen due to man‘s altering of our earth’s geology. If you want to keep your head in the sand, that is fine. You far right zealots are as crazy and blind as the far left zealots making you an equal problem. Perhaps searching for the ‘God Particle’ will assist in finding a cure for head-stuck-in-the-ass syndrome so you can be helped.

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • sawbuck
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 2:14pm

      jhrusky
      Yep…There’s that liberal mind-set we know so well..

      I was just going to say I don’t think there is any thing wrong with science,
      I know ALL the good science has produced and
      Only a fool would say otherwise.

      Also only a fool would try to discredit my opinion on this.

      I said ..what a waste of time and money..
      Because I know what these scientist are trying to prove..

      I know these scientist would step over the cure for cancer…
      If it proved God never existed.

      Report Post » sawbuck  
    • inblack
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 3:16pm

      @JHRUSKY

      Sawbucks point is quite valid, although I would have stated it differently. He feels it is a waste of money and since he is paying for it, there is a problem.

      Like most govt driven projects, the money was coerced from citizens under threat of prison and distributed to someones pet project. This is fascism. I find it sad that objective people complain about corporate welfare and then start clapping when billions are diverted to NASA or CERN.

      You may say it is worth it, sawbuck may say it is not. My view is it is immoral for govt to take money and apply it to it’s favorite pet project against the will of the individual.

      While I agree that understand nature is not wrong in any sense, and so far the objections to black holes or anti-matter that destroy the earth seem to be more fantasy than reality. The evil is in the system that took $10s of billions from people to build this.

      Report Post »  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 6:00pm

      @ inblack

      “Sawbucks point is quite valid, although I would have stated it differently. He feels it is a waste of money and since he is paying for it, there is a problem.”

      I have no problem with something thinking a project is a waste of money. Unfortunately, we all know of projects that we believe are a waste of our money and it’s impossible to please everyone. I would assume you agree.

      ‘ I find it sad that objective people complain about corporate welfare and then start clapping when billions are diverted to NASA or CERN.”

      Yet look at all the good NASA and the space program has done for the world. Science must progress and humanity should be a part of that progression since humanity is what can and will benefit from it.

      “You may say it is worth it, sawbuck may say it is not. My view is it is immoral for govt to take money and apply it to it’s favorite pet project against the will of the individual.”

      You do realize that if we did not do that, there wouldn’t be a single government project ever, right?
      There will always be someone against any project. Now, if we could find a way to not use people’s money whom object and then ensure they and their offspring cannot benefit from any good derived from that science, that would be fair, of course then there would be some sort of moral objection to that as well. It’s lose-lose no matter what way it’s sliced.

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 6:05pm

      @ sawbuck

      “I said ..what a waste of time and money.. Because I know what these scientist are trying to prove..
      I know these scientist would step over the cure for cancer…If it proved God never existed.”

      I think you are very wrong in assuming scientists who work at CERN are trying to prove God never existed. I’m most curious as to how you claim to know the answers to what they are trying to prove? If God exists, and I personally am certain He does, how did He do what He did? You don’t know, I don’t know, and I doubt anyone else alive knows. Do you find it wrong to try an search and gain understanding? Do you think God wants us to never learn? What if this knowledge assists in curing cancer? Or if it finds ways to cure harmed ecosystems? Or create a very inexpensive energy form that does not pollute? Would not those be good, valid things that can help all of humanity?

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • inblack
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:32pm

      @JHRUSKY said…
      “You do realize that if we did not do that, there wouldn’t be a single government project ever, right?”

      Yes I do and I would be happy if there were no govt projects. In fact that is my political goal.

      The free market, industry and people willing to invest in the CERN and NASA projects are how, in my view, projects should be funded. Govt should be reserved to upholding the law and defending from foreign invaders.

      It is why we have patents and why we ensure that people who invest in technology can profit from it. This is the ultimate mechanism, since everyone who invests does so voluntarily without coercion.

      Report Post »  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 9:42pm

      @ inblack

      “Yes I do and I would be happy if there were no govt projects. In fact that is my political goal.
      The free market, industry and people willing to invest in the CERN and NASA projects are how, in my view, projects should be funded. Govt should be reserved to upholding the law and defending from foreign invaders.”

      In many ways I agree with you, but I still think there needs to be minimal government involvement in specific projects; e.g. NASA, CERN and other similar projects. While I am a capitalist and believe in a free market, I also understand that greed is alive and well here on planet earth and can and will affect outcomes. The end result of unregulated capitalism is a George Soros whom would buy everything, own everything, and then rule the world. Money = power and influence, and bad people will make bad use of that money.

      At the same time, I know that those who work for the government in many cases are inferior in intelligence and managerical capabilities because they could do much better in the private sector if they were good at what they did. Yet, one would hope good people could be found to manage and run the NASAs and CERNs of the world to do good for all people of earth, not just private corporations funding the projects. It may be a pipe dream, but it‘s what I’d like to see come about if we can ever get past the left vs. right political BS arguments.

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • inblack
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 10:14pm

      @HRUSKY said…

      “I still think there needs to be minimal government involvement in specific projects; e.g. NASA, CERN and other similar projects. While I am a capitalist and believe in a free market, I also understand that greed is alive and well here on planet earth and can and will affect outcomes. The end result of unregulated capitalism is a George Soros whom would buy everything, own everything, and then rule the world.”

      Well, I definitely disagree. The result of unregulated GOVERNMENT is a George Soros who can change the rules of the game and profit without participating in the free market.

      1) George Soros can wield influence because he can buy political sway. If the only role of govt was to protect peoples rights and defend the country then the devil would not have much influence in buying that govt.

      2) However when people suggest that the govt can go a little further, use it‘s police power to collect taxes and extend it’s powers to spending money on science and research, then we have a lobbyist’s playground. Satan, I mean George Soros, can now buy his way into the game.

      3) George Soros and his ilk spend money to make money. They use the US govt to change regulation and laws to make their investments more profitable. Take away the US govt’s ability to change the rules of the game and uncle George and Beelzebub will have to go elsewhere.

      The greatest crimes of the last 20 centuries where perpetrated through govt, not a true free market.

      Report Post »  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on July 5, 2012 at 7:46am

      @ inblack

      “Well, I definitely disagree. The result of unregulated GOVERNMENT is a George Soros who can change the rules of the game and profit without participating in the free market.”

      Perhaps I did not state it correctly and mistakingly used George Soros instead of Sam Walton and Walmart (yes, I know Sam is dead). Unregulated capitalism will end in one corporation owning everything. Once that is achieved or near achieved, that corporation yields tremendous power. It actually is happening already — a corp gets big and then influences government to pass new legislation that, on the surface, sounds good, but actually makes it harder and harder for anyone else to startup and compete. I don’t see that as useful whatsoever, as once you have eliminated most competition, there is no good reason to keep prices in their “correct” places for the populace. Good competition is great for a free market.

      Other than the competition problem that I see, how do you keep government honest so there would be no back-room deals or gifts? If you could achieve that, perhaps it might approach workability, but I don’t see that possible — especially since it seems to be about nothing but money today for many people on both sides.

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • inblack
      Posted on July 5, 2012 at 9:39am

      @JHRUSKY

      Sears, JCPenny, Target, K-Mart, BestBuy, Kroger, Tesco. In the free market there is competition and we have anti-monopoly laws to prevent what you are worried about.

      Interestingly Walmart is one of my favorite companies. People lament the mom and pops that could not compete, but I see a company that has done more for the poor than all the politicians. It has employed 2.2 million people, it keeps prices low so that poor people and rich can buy low cost food and goods. Yes there have been a multitude of attacks against walmart, and most are proved false.

      I think you keep govt honest by shrinking its size and by limiting its power. The founders envisioned a small limited govt. We have mistakenly let it get out of control. We need to redefine the us govt through amendments that forbid it from interfering with commerce, make lobbying illegal and redefine the role of the military.

      Walmart is totally dependent on the good will of its shoppers. Competitors will gladly step in and buy out the walmart buildings and hire away their employees.

      Our govt has no competition and no longer bends to the will of the people. Bush, McCain, Romney – all establishment insiders.

      Walmart cannot force me to do anything – the federal govt can regulate or tax away my freedom, guns, property, religion and speech.

      Govts are dangerous because they have police power – that power must be limited. Allowing govt into the economy and our daily lives threatens our freedom.

      Report Post »  
  • qpwillie
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 7:51am

    I have a great fascination with physics but much more fascination with the one who created them.

    Report Post » qpwillie  
  • Czarthur
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 7:47am

    I have a great bridge for sale and I’m only asking $10 billion for it. If your interested call me at 1 – 800 – IMA – DOPE.

    Report Post »  
  • MOLLYPITCHER
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 7:24am

    Its a waste of money to research this. What is it going to change? Nothing. The answers to where everything came from is in Genesis chapter 1.

    Report Post »  
    • totripoli
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 7:32am

      It terrifies me that people like you hold public office. This discovery (if legitimate) could completely change our understanding of the universe, and lead to drastic scientific advancement. Such advancement could benefit all of mankind.

      Report Post »  
    • MOLLYPITCHER
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 7:46am

      In what way would it benefit man kind? What truly benefits mankind is Christ. He saves our souls from hell. Have you ever looked at the Bible as an explanation for science? It makes much more sense than evolution. I have a much easier time believing that I was created by a higher power, than that I evolved from some prehistoric mammal, or bacteria, and every other explanation I have heard.

      Report Post »  
    • ireport uderide
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:01am

      Totripoli
      If true, this is an important scientific discovery.
      I believe what Molly is saying and what you’re attacking are the foundational statements in Genesis 1…

      Ver.1
      In the Beginning – Time
      God created the Heaven… – Universe
      And the Earth. – Matter

      Ver.2
      And the Spirit of God moved- Energy.

      It’s right there in the first two versus of the Bible so why don’t you shove your bigotry up your arss where the sun don’t shine- Light.

      Report Post » ireport uderide  
    • ScienceIsNotEvil
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:08am

      People like you said the very same thing about quantum mechanics 50 years ago now it is the basis for our civilization, the computer you use and the communications networks which bring you the Internet.

      Stop being scared of that which you don’t understand.

      Report Post »  
    • randy
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:15am

      @SCIENCEISNOTEVIL

      Hmmmmmmmm, Scratching head.
      Then why are you so afraid of God?

      Report Post » randy  
    • SamIamTwo
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:24am

      The void that God created is the one that gives human nature the desire to seek God…In a serious way, scientist are true seekers. (Whether they know it or not)

      Praise God for that, cause if you seek Him…meh you should know the rest of it if your grounded.

      Report Post » SamIamTwo  
    • ScienceIsNotEvil
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 8:25am

      Randy,

      “Then why are you so afraid of God?”

      What is your source for this belief?

      Report Post »  
    • conservative beckhater
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 9:32am

      Superstitious primitive thinkers like MollyPitcher will simply be left behind in the dust while the rest of us move ahead. She can cling to her nonsensical beliefs but it’ll have no effect on incredible and amazing discoveries like this one. Benefits in the wider world from the discovery of the Higgs boson will be long term, but they could be in fields as diverse as medicine, computing and manufacturing.
      This is truly earth shaking and to see the ignorant comments here by the usual crowd of superstitious jerks comes as no surprise at all. Remember goobers, the supernatural is neither super nor natural. Science is both.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh4RzSfHdAc

      Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2168557/Higgs-boson-Scientists-God-particle-40-year-search-momentous-day-science.html#ixzz1zeztbvrD

      Here’s two unbiased reports (unlike the slanted propaganda in the story above) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18702455

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2168557/Higgs-boson-Scientists-God-particle-40-year-search-momentous-day-science.html

      Report Post »  
    • SoNick
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 9:34am

      arguing from ignorance (ie: I can’t imagine this thing to be possible, therefore it does noit exist) is one of the most common fallacies commited by people on this site. According to your logic, since Genesis I explains everything, why even bother doing any research at all? This is one of the greatest scientific discoveries of our time and we’re getting closer and closer to understanding the foundation of life itself. How is that sacrilegious? Do you think knowledge is evil?

      Report Post »  
    • SilentDove
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 11:05am

      What I don‘t understand is how Molly can’t reconcile these things together… I hate to say it but primitive is the only way I can think of to describe it. Your faith and science go hand in hand, discovering how amazing God’s creation is through science, but you can’t accept that? Do you hate the Lord’s creation?

      Report Post »  
    • jhrusky
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 11:08am

      Why would God have given us this wonderful, analytical brain with the ability to learn and reason if He did not want us to use it? I don’t believe He said keep your head stuck in the sand all your lives. There is nothing anti-God or anti-Religious about moving forward in science. If that were the case and if we all lived that way, we’d still be spending our lives in caves hunting each other.

      Report Post » jhrusky  
    • pantokrator
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 11:13am

      I believe science is God’s way of allowing us to understand His wonders used in a world of time and logic.

      God is an astronaut. He loves science and so should we. :)

      Report Post »  
    • Anonymous T. Irrelevant
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 1:20pm

      @PANTOKRATOR
      I’m not sure about God being an astronaut, but He has given us all to discover and invent. If this particle helps finish the Unified theory, then by all means. Maybe it will help in creating anti-gravity machines, which will help us to explore more of space and to expand to other planets.
      This doesn’t mean God does not exist, in my view, but means He does.
      In the Dan Brown novel, “Angels and Demons” this is how the books starts out, by CERN finding this particle, but he is saying it is anti-matter. They store it in a magnetic field and the rest of the story is a chase and race to find who has it and get it before it destroys the Vatican.

      Report Post » Anonymous T. Irrelevant  
    • pantokrator
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 3:03pm

      I never said God doesn’t exist, I am promoting the existence of God. I am a firm believer in a supreme being, and I believe that being is the God depicted in the Bible. I’m merely saying that as a believer, I too LOVE science, and that I think God also loves science, and He gave us science to comprehend with our little brains His wonders in a place ruled by logic and time.

      Report Post »  
    • inblack
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 3:33pm

      @JRHUSKY

      “Why would God have given us this wonderful, analytical brain with the ability to learn and reason if He did not want us to use it? …we’d still be spending our lives in caves hunting each other.”

      I think we spent most of our time hunting food, but I agree.

      God did not create nature to hide it from us, nor did he create our curiosity as a joke on us. Science discovery is basically a good thing. I believe God expects us to develop our intellect and rational thought – without it we are incapable of taking care of ourselves. Much suffering has been eliminated due to scientific advances.

      I think we are best served however, when we keep our pride in check. There are still centuries worth of discovery ahead of us and we have been wrong enough times to know that “certainty” is a fools game.

      Report Post »  
    • totripoli
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 5:56pm

      @IREPORT UDERIDE

      I was in no way attacking Molly’s sentiment that religion can explain our origins (though I disagree), but her statement that it’s a waste of money to research the Higgs.

      Report Post »  
    • inblack
      Posted on July 4, 2012 at 9:51pm

      @SONICK said…

      “arguing from ignorance (ie: I can’t imagine this thing to be possible, therefore it does noit exist) is one of the most common fallacies [sic] commited by people on this site.”

      Ah SONICK, that is not what an argument from ignorance means.

      An “argument from ignorance” is when you say something is true because it cannot be proven false.

      I thought you were supposed to be some ******* jack debater?

      Report Post »  
  • Cloth Stews
    Posted on July 4, 2012 at 7:15am

    A Higgs-Boson walks into a church, the priest says “We don’t allow Higgs-Bosons in here.” The Higgs-Boson says “But without me how can you have mass?

    Report Post »  
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