Wacky MSNBC Segment: Lawrence O’Donnell Begs for Viewers While Blasting Beck & Bible
- Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:33am by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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We‘ve always known Lawrence O’Donnell holds a certain disdain for Glenn Beck. Now we know how he feels about God and the Bible, too.
During the “Rewrite” segment on his show last night, O‘Donnell criticized Bill O’Reilly for — get ready for it — cautioning the public about over-hyping the situation in Japan. He then blasted Beck’s reference to the book of Revelation this week, which quickly led to a tirade against God and the Bible:
The book of Revelation is a work of fiction describing how a truly vicious God would bring about the end of the world. No half-smart religious person actually believes the book of Revelation. They are certain that their God would never turn into a malicious torturer and mass murderer beyond Hitler’s wildest dreams. Glenn Beck, of course, does believe the book of Revelation.
The point O‘Donnell was trying to make is that O’Reilly should be bashing Beck for “hype” since Beck is discussing a book that deals with the end of the world and tying it in to Japan (despite, as Mediaite points out, Beck’s repeated admission that the end of the world is beyond his expertise).
And this is when O’Donnell got desperate. “Why would anyone listen to a guy who doesn’t know if this is the end of the world,” he asked, “when there’s another guy on MSNBC at eight every night who can tell you with absolute certainty, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that this is not the end of the world? What do I have to do, change the name of the show to ‘The This is Not the End of the World Show with Lawrence O’Donnell?’”
Yes, he just begged for more viewers. “Don’t listen to Beck. Listen to me.” Classy:
(H/T: Mediaite)
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Comments (893)
BreeZee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:56amAll the “journalist” at MiSNBC might equal a half a brain. Everytime I hear Mathews I think he is mentally losing it. O’donnel is a admitted socialist and I am an admitted anti-socialist so that should explain what I think about him and his opinion.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:55amI would say that that was an embarassing performance and one that will lose him some viewers, but really, does he have many to lose?
Trashing the book of Revelation and calling God a mass murderer is really playing to a niche audience. But that’s MSNBC, I guess.
Report Post »marine249
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:19pmmaybe larry knows he is on the way out
Report Post »PA PATRIOT
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:54amLarry….
Report Post »So now you believe Billy O is the news?
Billy’s talking points knows exactly what is going on.
Larry, It is time to take a lesson on reporting TRUTH.
Larry is too stupid to get the picture. DUH
Freedom1984
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:10amHe definately has some Homer Simpson in him. But drats… I feel bad comparing Homer to this guy. Even Homer Simpson has more class than this creepy moron.
Report Post »Atilla
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:53amWhy would anyone listen to a self admitted socialist. Once you describe yourself as either a socialist or a communist and you know even a little histroy, you can logically conclude that Mr. O’Donnell wants to “Fundamentally transform America.” as does OBama. He therefore cannot be expected to defend and protect the Constitution of the US because to do so conflicts with socialism and communisim. Mr. OBama’s actions in my view border on treason and are impeachable. O’Donnell is what he is. A radical who has rejected capitalism.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:06pmSo does Beck. There is nothing wrong with fundamentally changing America, as long as the change is what you personally want. Nice principled argument. And, for the record, O’Donnell is not a socialist. He is a progressive, and there is a huge difference between the two. That you don’t know it reveals how dumb you are…or how dumb you think other readers here are. Not sure which it is, but it doesn’t matter. The lie remains the same and must be undone.
DVPFLA
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:47pmTo ABC who responed to :ABC you leave me baffled.
In one reply you mention a friend who is serving in the military who happens to be an athiest. This was in response to a person who posted the phrase “there are no athiests in a fox hole”. It is a prhase. Then you go on to comment that as far as you know the athiests have not been suicide bombers. To the best of my knowledge that is probably more true than false. However you say this like only people who have religious beliefs have done killings in the name of their beliefs. I will grant you there are probably hundreds of thousands plus who have been killed in the name of christianity alone.
You seem to gloss over the fact that millions, yes I said MILLIONS, have been killed by people operating athiest (communists) following governents. How was Stalin, Mao, and, Pol Pot to name a few. It is believed about 100 million have been killed by these athiestic regeimes. (just in the 20th century)
I have seen where some “intelectual” athiests will say those atrocities were not done by my kind of athiest. Sorry Charlie.
One of your bests responses (And a sure sign you are both “credible” and “intelligent” You seem to have this idea that by calling people names that some how you are showing you are “smarter” ) is when you have been saying O’Donnell is a progressive he is not a socialist.
I know I could be wrong, but you might need to convince Lawrence O’Donnel he is not a socialist. He has said he is not a progressive. O’Donnel argued he is a socialist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDN-whhZOTo.
This dang internet is the darnedest thing. You can find all sorts of facts.
If you are an athiest well good for you. I will stand up all day long to defend your right to be an athiest. I won’t even resort to name calling. Have a good day.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:33pm@ ABC said……….He’s not a Socialist, but even Socialists are better than ignorant fascists.
WATCH said……….eh hmmm…..ABC O’Donnell said himself he is a socialist. You may want to youtube that one there. But all the other atheist stuff you said I’m sure your right about all that though.
JABBER said……..To ABC-
Since I believe you are too lazy to do your own homework, I‘ve decided to provide the empirical evidence here that you keep insisting doesn’t exist for later, more rational readers:
November 6, 2010 –On camera, on air, Morning Joe-said to Salon’s Glenn Greenwald-
“Unlike you, I am not a progressive. I am not a liberal who’s so afraid of the word that I had to change my name to progressive. Liberals amuse me. I am a Socialist. I live to the extreme left – the extreme left – of you mere liberals.” Lawrence O’Donnell
Dumb is as Dumb does !!!!!
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:35pmDVP, thanks for defending my right to speak–unlike others on this site that seek to pull my comments down. I have said that I stand corrected on O’Donnell, since I hadn’t seen the quote offered up. I also have never said that I think all violence is caused by religious folks, but I take issue with religious folks somehow claiming that the presence of religion is a net positive and anyone who questions the value or even rejects the value of religion is wrong. While more people might have died fighting over resources, nationalism, racism or ideology rather than religion, more folks have died in the name of religion than in the name of atheism. And while few atheists go around forcing Christians to give up their beliefs, Christians are constantly telling otherpeople to abandon beliefs to take Jesus into their heart–my posts here a welcomed turning of the tables on this highly arrogant, proselytizing group.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:44pmABC…..if you want to apologize for your attacking comments the name would be ATILLA.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:49pm@ ABC
Just to quote what you said that might be taken the wrong way by ATILLA…………………………………
“And, for the record, O’Donnell is not a socialist. He is a progressive, and there is a huge difference between the two. That you don’t know it reveals how dumb you are…or how dumb you think other readers here are. Not sure which it is, but it doesn’t matter. The lie remains the same and must be undone.”
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:55amABC is both dumb and arrogant, but it is his arrogance that causes him to believe he is better than others much smarter than he is.
Report Post »nacilbuper
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:53amI take comfort that I will never have to see Larry or Bill in heaven.
Report Post »Allarius
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:04amThe fact that you take comfort in it is why we likely won’t see you either. I’d change everything about your attitude soon.
Report Post »Tony Rogers
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:22amI have to disagree with you about your statement. It is very unfortunate that you say that you take comfort in never seeing Larry or Bill in heaven. We need to have the attitude of Jesus Christ. He came to this earth as the sacrifice for all men and women. In the last half of John 10:10 jesus said: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
They they in that sentence is for all man, woman, boy and girl. Unfortunately, in the society that we live in, there are more and more people who are not hearing the Good News of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I pray for men like Larry and Bill, that they will come under such conviction that they find out there is no other place to turn than to Jesus Christ.
But on the reverse of that, if they do not accept Jesus Christ, they will one day bow there knee and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, then be seperated from Jesus for eternity in a literal burning hell.
Report Post »nacilbuper
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:53amThank you, I will pray for them.
Report Post »Stuck_in_CA
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:52amLarry is typical of those of the Left. “Truth” is manufactured to fit their ideology. Facts are ignored or tweaked to fit their propaganda.
Bill & Glenn are two of THE most generous, compassionate, concerned for fellow human beings, people in TV/Radio. Proof is the gifts of time and $$$ they dedicate to charity.
Larry, you are creepy.
Report Post »mickey16
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:51amBlasting the bible in a mostly Christian country – Who’s running this network? Daycare dropouts?
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:01am“Please watch me while I trash your faith”, is an advertizing campaign even PBS isn’t stupid enough to run.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:08pmThe truth comes out. Mikey is for tyranny of the majority. Don’t let me catch you claiming that al-Jazeera is biased or that the Iranians should not crack down on non-Muslims. You agree with the sentiment, at least for Christians in an allegedly “Christian country.” How prinicipled of you!!
Report Post »Spekker
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:23pm@ABC, You liberal.atheist types spin so much, its no wonder you are so dizzy. All Mickey was saying is it’s pretty stupid for a network that is hurting for ratings already, to alienate half their potential viewership.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:05pmYeah MICKEY……………….Do not let ABC catch you. It will not be pretty for you my friend.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:29pmSpekker, it seems to me that Mickey would not let such “blasts” occur, which means he is in favor of silencing certain views to satisfy the majority. That is tyranny of the majority. He might do it for ratings or money (as Fox does) or for other more pernicious reasons. However, I am not spinning at all.
Report Post »waresite
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:51amPoor pathetic little socialist……….
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:13pmHe’s not a Socialist, but even Socialists are better than ignorant fascists.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:02pmeh hmmm…..ABC O’Donnell said himself he is a socialist. You may want to youtube that one there. But all the other atheist stuff you said I’m sure your right about all that though.
Report Post »Jabber
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:19pmTo ABC-
Since I believe you are too lazy to do your own homework, I‘ve decided to provide the empirical evidence here that you keep insisting doesn’t exist for later, more rational readers:
November 6, 2010 –On camera, on air, Morning Joe-said to Salon’s Glenn Greenwald-
Report Post »“Unlike you, I am not a progressive. I am not a liberal who’s so afraid of the word that I had to change my name to progressive. Liberals amuse me. I am a Socialist. I live to the extreme left – the extreme left – of you mere liberals.” Lawrence O’Donnell
abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:25pmIf the quote you left is true, then I stand corrected.
Report Post »Jabber
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:47pmABC-
Why would you stand corrected? Doesn’t seem rational at all. Sit. But SIT corrected.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:51amABC is an ignorant fascist.
Report Post »matt708
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:51amlary STFU if it wasn’t for the blaze showing your stupidity no one would know about you
Report Post »BIGJAYINPA
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:51amHey Larry…What does it feel like to be the lowest rated show on the lowest rated network?? It is bad enough to get your butt kicked by Fox, but I think you trail OWN. There is a word for people like you… LOSER, look in the mirror it is tattooed to your forehead.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:12pmIt feels bad. Living in a country where the best quality receives the lowest ratings, while the very highest quality receives low ratings… It is a very depressing thing for those who still hold out hpe for America. But we like Garth Brooks and make him a multi-millionaire although he is not a cowboy, hails from New Jersey and pretends to be the country western icon that people want to see; meanwhile, there are thousands of singers who have more talent and who (importantly) are authentic, and they languish in anonymity. Olive Garden generates millions although what they serve is hardly authentic Italian food. And O’Reilly, Hannity and others make millions spewing total nonsense, while those who actually have ommand of the facts are not allowed anywhere near the studios. Those that speak don’t know, while those that don‘t know won’t shut up…to paraphrase the great Chinese philosopher Chuan-tzu. So, yes, it feels really bad…
Report Post »mooseman
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:43pmThat’s the problem ABC…there is no perfect world like the one you wish for. That only comes when a fallen world is redeemed. Would you rather that God just made us all mindless drones…all these ‘stepford wife’ type characters who lived in this world where no struggles took place, no friction, every day was a sunny 75 and everything we undertook we were good at and never had to work. Life was just this endless conveyor belt of utopia…. Sorry, God created us with free will and some make a choice for good some make a choice for evil. WE are responsible for our choices….not God. We will answer for those choices. Do you want your children to just mindlessly love you or do you want them to genuinely love you? Same with God. It’s impossible to please God without faith. You can‘t tell me how this earth got here without God and I can’t explain to you how God exists. We both make a choice to believe what we believe. I look at creation in all it’s complexity, our most brilliant scientists cannot create life, they cannot explain the DNA chain, they cannot explain the Cambrian explosion, they have yet to find these fossils that are in the midst of ‘evolution’….some half lizard half bird creature in the midst of evolving…they cannot explain ‘metamorphosis’ if it‘s supposed to be ’survival of the fittest’. I choose to believe that the only explanation is an intelligent creator. You want to believe this all just happened by chance. I personally feel it takes far more faith to believe your side since you have virtually no evidence to support it. The Bible says ‘all creation points to the fact that there is a God’ and if you study just a human cell you will see an engineering wonder that couldn‘t possibly have just ’happened’. If you want to believe it did…good on ya. Like I said…we all have to answer for our choices.
Report Post »constitutionparty
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:51amThe sign of senility is to keep repeating yourself. Either that or he believes his viewers are so stupid he has to talk slow and continue to repeat himself. Bill O’Reilly was talking about the news media, not the opinion shows like Beck, O’Reilly etc.
Report Post »Slayer
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:50amLooks like someone at MSDNC has been looking at their ratings and is starting to lash out at everyone around him…
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:49amOne thing Larry here needs to understand, there is a living God, and His word is not to be ignored or denigrated without consequense; I hope and pray Larry will come into understanding what the Word is truly about, and in time as well accept what is true…and not myth or ‘spin’ as man puts onto it for their own agendas and purposes.
Report Post »RiseAboveThem
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:49amMy my Larry, your desperation is so becoming.
Report Post »Freedom1984
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:08amHe really is very creepy.
Report Post »zoo9guy
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:16amPathetic…………………..
Report Post »tonythefisher
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:48amthe MOST macho Dude on the air!
Report Post »G.W. Dobbs
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:48amNo, Lawrence, I will NEVER listen to an admitted SOCIALIST/PROGRESSIVE who hates America and our way of Life and has no fear of God. You are NOT a Christian, born again, either from your
Report Post »non-acceptance of the Bible as the WORD is the “I AM”, Jesus, whose Spirit is IN the Born Again. We are to separate ourselves from such according to the Instructions, you know, the BIBLE, the WORD. Surely we ARE in the “End Times”; well, we EACH are in our OWN End Time as we live
because we each DIE after “our” End Time, would you not agree. The imputed Sin of Adam: DISOBEDIENCE brought this to mankind. As for ME and MY House, we will follow the LORD. And we BELIEVE HIS WORD. ALL of it.
Tony Rogers
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:23amAMEN! As I heard a preacher say I believe the Bible all the way from the table of contents all the way through the maps. Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God the Father!
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:03pmDobb is dumb. You say Jesus is God, so it is true? How about proving it?? If you cannot, then do not be so dumb as to insist that I believe the unprovable fiction as well. There is no difference between you, who claims Jesus is God, and the fool who claims that pink unicorns should be worshipped. Both of you lack any evidence to support your claim. Happily, there are very, very few who believe in pink unicorns, but sadly there are many like you. Either way, what you believe is ridiculous at best and as dangerous as 9/11 at worst. But keep regurgitating the dogma of your religious slavemaster. Apparently, you are too afraid or stupid to see how it has turned your mind to mush. You do not even know the difference between fact and fiction, evidence and belief, reality and fantasy. And even in that crazed state (or perhaps because of it), you find the temerity to call out those far more rational than you. Stupid.
gambit5555
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:40pm@ABC,
Report Post »Prove that a single Christian believer is wrong! Go for it. Your idiocy is prevalent in most of your comments. You think that Christians don’t believe in and use doctors? You think Christians don’t believe in science? Do a little, tiny smidgeon of research before making your absurd and delusional claims. But that is probably unnheard of you and most progressives. You just like to mouth off and attack religion because it makes you feel superior. You come across as a condesending elitist without the slightest knowledge of what you detest.
abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:23pmGambit, don’t be a moron. I am not saying that religious people don’t go to doctors. They do. And that shows their hypocrisy. They claim that atheists and agnostics are bad for humanity, and they rail against scientific theories that seem to undermine their mythology books (e.g., the Bible). But when they need the benefit of those atheistic belief systems, like scientific method in general or evolutionary biology in particular, then they want those drugs. If they would admit that their religious belief is their private indulgence, their personal mythology but that they are not going to use it to demand that we not teach evolution in schools, then I’d have no problem. But they don’t. They seek to force their bankrupt and corrupt and false mythology on others, thereby hurting science and scientifically literate policy, but they are the first to hypocritically demand the fruits of that science when they need them.
You totally misstated what I wrote. I don’t know whether you do this out of ignorance or deceipt. Either way, the record must be corrected.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:49amABC is a dumb fool who worships pink unicorns. All he can do is regurgitate rediculous and dangerous beliefs he has stupidly assimilated. He’s a hypocritical moron full of bankrupt and corrupt ideas, besides being either totally ignorant or simply deceitful.
Report Post »Mystapitt
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:48amThank you to the Blaze for wasting 6 minutes of my morning…ugh…why did I do that?
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:54amI know, it’s like a train wreck. You don’t want to look but, you just can’t help it.
Report Post »Freedom1984
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:06amNo! It was only 5 minutes and 21 seconds. And I too feel the same way…. like WHY DID I WATCH THE WHOLE THING??????????????
Report Post »I think perhaps I wanted to see his head explode…..
CatholiConservative
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:47amI wonder if mr. Odonnel has ever read revelation in context? Although that’s silly to expect a liberal to take something in context… To all you unfortunate atheists out there- if you’re living like there is no hell, you’d better be right
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:58amTo understand Revelation “in context” you have to read the rest of the Bible, BELIEVE it and be a member of a church.
He’s 0 for 3.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:45amThe Book of Revelation has no modern context. The Book was written to give comfort to a early Christians, who were hunted by the Romans, its revenge porn, the purpose is to show that there is a reason for the suffering.
Once Christianity gained acceptance, the book has no more relavance. To many have wasted their lives looking for signs.
Now we have Rev. Beck and his Mormon 700 club, preaching a paranoid sermon.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:59amFunny how believers have divorce rates and commit other sins at at least the same rate as non-believers, yet you claim with such self-assurance that somehow the believers’ fear of hell is an asset. If foolish religious people could actually run numbers they would find that their purported advantages and superiorities do not exist, just like their God. But beause they are mentally lazy and do not (or are stupid and cannot) see that what they claim is not factually or empirically true, they go on in ignorant bliss repeating untruths. Here are the facts: you cannot prove to anyone, including yourself, that hell exists and should be feared; however, I can easily prove that whether you believe in hell or not has no impact on whether people avoid committing crimes. So what good is your belief system. It is no more useful or real than believing that Batman is real and the source of all of human morality. How silly you are to worship Batman.
Islesfordian
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:27pm“the purpose [of Revelation] is to show that there is a reason for the suffering.”
No. The purpose is to give hope to a suffering church that God wins in the end. That is why this book was always fiercel;y suppresssed by the communists, because it proclaims that the State is not supreme and that all who oppose God will lose.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:57pmHey ISLES whats up ?………I love it when someone who doesn’t hold to or believe the Bible in any real capacity always wants to explain to the rest of us its meaning….go figure. Keep up the good fight my friend
Report Post »Jabber
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:31pmABC-
You, along with some Christians, are confused about the whole reason REAL believers do what they do and refrain from doing what they refrain from doing. REAL Christians believers (as opposed to “claimers”) do not commit crimes because they love God and desire to obey Him. Not to obtain a reward from Him, although their faith produces great blessings from Him, and not because they are afraid of His punishments or Hell. Obedience because one desires reward or because one is afraid are both self-centered-based on one’s own best interests. Obedience from faith is an entirely different thing, and some Christians act based on faith and love directed at someone other than themselves.
Doing “good/correct“ things because one does not want to experience ”bad” consequences is a also a mark of reason and maturity, and not necessarily religious belief. I wear my seat belt because I was taught to understand inertia, impact, and force. I don’t want to be pried from my dashboard with a spatula (bad) so I do the correct thing and attempt to secure myself. Now maybe YOU must experience the “empirical proof” “ facts” for yourself before you engage in seat belting, but having reasoned it out myself, I don’t. Because I was taught to understand gravity, I avoid standing on the edges of tall buildings. I also don’t ingest poison, taunt bees, or use my toaster in the bathtub.
From those actions one could logically postulate that I am afraid of dying, but that is not indeed the “truth” of why I behave the way I behave. I don’t fear death in the least. What I fear is experiencing excruciating pain BEFORE/WITHOUT dying. It is the suffering I fear. The suffering that is empirically evident in people who survive car crashes, long drops, poisoning, bees, and electrical shock. The suffering inherent in disobeying, or ignoring, these particular “vicious”, unloving, unkind natural laws.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:54pmJabber,
That was a rather thoughtful response, although I fear that most believers do not actually do what you say they do:
“You, along with some Christians, are confused about the whole reason REAL believers do what they do and refrain from doing what they refrain from doing. REAL Christians believers (as opposed to “claimers”) do not commit crimes because they love God and desire to obey Him.”
Perhaps, although there are many non-theistic philosophers that have argued about the beauty and ethics of doing the same thing. Kant talks about the test of universalizing a maxim. You don’t need God and a desire to obey Him in order to desire to live a life that is ethically good and obeys those ethical laws. The problem I see is the vicious reaction from Christians, Jews and Muslims when an agnostic or atheist voices that same motivation, minus the God part. Which makes me doubt the sincerity of this motivation–as opposed to another, namely: I want you to accept my mythology so I can feel empowered.
“Not to obtain a reward from Him, although their faith produces great blessings from Him, and not because they are afraid of His punishments or Hell. Obedience because one desires reward or because one is afraid are both self-centered-based on one’s own best interests. Obedience from faith is an entirely different thing, and some Christians act based on faith and love directed at someone other than themselves.”
But atheists can love and they can have faith in other people. Christians hardly have some unique monopoly on this. The difference is that they choose to love a mythical figure that has no empirical proof of its existence. This is not rational, while my love for humanity and faith in my wife and children is totally rational.
“Doing “good/correct“ things because one does not want to experience ”bad” consequences is a also a mark of reason and maturity, and not necessarily religious belief. I wear my seat belt because I was taught to understand inertia, impact, and force. I don’t want to be pried from my dashboard with a spatula (bad) so I do the correct thing and attempt to secure myself.”
Agreed. And I am not arguing otherwise. But how much more “holy” are the people who choose to do good because of a love of humanity rather than those who do it because of a desire to avoid damnation, which is still a powerful incentive system uniquely built into Christianity.
“Now maybe YOU must experience the “empirical proof” “ facts” for yourself before you engage in seat belting, but having reasoned it out myself, I don’t.”
Well then I have some cell phone seat belts to sell you. There is no empirical proof that they are needed, but I hear Jesus thinks you would look great spending $1,000 on them… Of course you demand empirical proof. Don’t insult my intelligence or yours by asserting otherwise.
” Because I was taught to understand gravity, I avoid standing on the edges of tall buildings. I also don’t ingest poison, taunt bees, or use my toaster in the bathtub.”
So Christians aren’t always irrational. Just when they want to attack other groups or justify their archaic myths I guess.
“From those actions one could logically postulate that I am afraid of dying, but that is not indeed the “truth” of why I behave the way I behave. I don’t fear death in the least. What I fear is experiencing excruciating pain BEFORE/WITHOUT dying. It is the suffering I fear. The suffering that is empirically evident in people who survive car crashes, long drops, poisoning, bees, and electrical shock. The suffering inherent in disobeying, or ignoring, these particular “vicious”, unloving, unkind natural laws.”
What you totally miss is the suffering that comes from subjecting your mind to slavery, which is what your desire to obey that higher power results in. First, you cannot talk to God, so you must actually submit to other men, who intermediate for you God’s word–either people who wrote the Bible or your preacher or whatever other religious leaders you submit to. Second, you ignore all the truths uncovered not by religious people but by non-religious people that are resisted by religious people because they conflict with those beliefs that they unnecessarily enslaved themselves to. That is real suffering, both for the believer and for the rest of us who suffer when believers subject us to suffering in the name of showing blind obedience to their God…or, more accurately, the men who claim to hear God speaking.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:17pm“First, you cannot talk to God, so you must actually submit to other men, who intermediate for you God’s word”
You misunderstand the reality of Christian belief and practice because you propose a false alternative of either personal revelation or total dependence upon others to mediate God to us. The truth lies both inbetween and a mixture of the two. God can and does speak to us directly, though few, I think, recognize his voice as a distinct voice separate from them. God speaks to us through the illumination of our mind and through our conscience. BUT, and this is a big but, we are neither meant to be islands of prophecy unto ourselves needing the fellowship or no one else, nor are we INFALLIBLE in our own inspiriation. We can deceive ourselves. We NEED our interpretation of God’s speaking to us to be confirmed by others, buy the church. This confirmation is doen first through the objective, because it is written, voice of scripture. Then it comes through the voice of others in the church who also have been reading Scripture and following God. The oldest voices are to be respected over the younger generally because age and experience brings wisdom. On top of this is the gift of inspiration that God offers through leaders within the church whose knowledge and authroity should be respected. Depending on one’s church tradition this element will be larger or smaller.
Remember that the greek word for disciples is mathematoi, because those who learned mathematics had to be trained in that knowledge. Math may be a pure science accessible to the intellect alone but it still requires teaching.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:31pmFordian,
“You misunderstand the reality of Christian belief and practice because you propose a false alternative of either personal revelation or total dependence upon others to mediate God to us. The truth lies both inbetween and a mixture of the two. God can and does speak to us directly, though few, I think, recognize his voice as a distinct voice separate from them. God speaks to us through the illumination of our mind and through our conscience.”
We now know that St. Augustine likely had epilepsy and his “revelation” was a seizure. There is no idea in the human mind that cannot be explained by mere chemistry in the brain, including the great works of art by da Vinci or Mozart or the great scientific discoveries of Galileo or Einstein. To claim that God moves our mind is to confuse reality of brain chemistry with fantasy of some magical force powering our brain. In medieval times, theologians used to use the same explanation for concepts like inertia (i.e., why an object in motion remains in motion after I let go of it), but we now know better. They also claimed until about 1900 that there was a life force or ether that animated life, but only religious know-nothings believe that now. So your claim is merely a vestige of an idea that has been disproven long ago. Why do you choose to hold to it?
“BUT, and this is a big but, we are neither meant to be islands of prophecy unto ourselves needing the fellowship or no one else, nor are we INFALLIBLE in our own inspiriation. We can deceive ourselves. We NEED our interpretation of God’s speaking to us to be confirmed by others, buy the church. This confirmation is doen first through the objective, because it is written, voice of scripture. Then it comes through the voice of others in the church who also have been reading Scripture and following God. The oldest voices are to be respected over the younger generally because age and experience brings wisdom. On top of this is the gift of inspiration that God offers through leaders within the church whose knowledge and authroity should be respected. Depending on one’s church tradition this element will be larger or smaller.”
The Church seeks to gain power by winning converts and making them believe that church law is divine law, but you call this Church an “objective” force for revealing reality?? How naive you are!! There are no doubt well-intentioned priests in the Church, and I know a few of them. However, the very processes that they rely upon to reveal truth and reality are all false. They generate no knowledge. They are merely means of intimidating people to believe what the church teaches. And they will force you to reject your beliefs when they differ from scripture. This is the same as leaders of the Politburo forcing citizens to adopt Socialist/Communist dogma. There is but one truth and one arbiter of truth. And wars are fought if you resist the dogma, just as Luther experienced. And just as atheists who were cowered in submission learned throughout history. Luckily, science has produced so much knowledge that religious folks can not longer kill you for not believing. But don’t think that this more humane church of modern times reflects any virtue from the church. It doesn’t. It reflects the hard-won triumph of secularism, embodied in the Renaissance and then the Enlightenment.
“Remember that the greek word for disciples is mathematoi, because those who learned mathematics had to be trained in that knowledge. Math may be a pure science accessible to the intellect alone but it still requires teaching.”
There is no doubt that humans do not rely just upon inbred learning like birds–although even they learn more than we humans give them credit for. But mathematics and science are not the same thing. Mathematics is not an empirical discipline, but a logical one. The most pure form of logic that there is, and much superior to the “word” of the gospel. It requires no interpretation of words, since it is self-evident to all who read it what the right interpretation is. Science, which you studiously avoid bringing up, is empirical and uniquely maps and tests reality. Interestingly, science has discovered that mathematics faithfully describes the world. But that is not a discovery taken on faith, as religious people take it on faith that religion is good or Jesus was just. Rather, it is a discovery that is constantly proven by testing things out and checking the empirical data. Religion never does this, and that is why it is useless as a guide to reality.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:40amABC is so stupid and mentally lazy that he foolishly bathes in his ignorant bliss. He’s just a silly Batman worshipper who is totally naive.
Report Post »MrUglyAmerican
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 11:09amABC: “The difference is that they choose to love a mythical figure that has no empirical proof of its existence.”
Unfortunately, for your sanctimonious, faux-intelligence slant on Christianity, there are many secular historical references to Jesus Christ:
1. Tacitus, the ancient Roman historian, who wrote of “Christus” being “put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius”
2. Josephus, a Jewish historian,who made two references to Jesus in his famous Antiquities
3. There’s also references to Jesus or to early followers of Jesus in the writings of Roman historian Suetonius, second century Greek satirist Lucian, and Syrian philosopher Mara Bar-Serapion.
British New Testament scholar I. Howard Marshall says it best: “It is not possible to explain the rise of the Christian church or the writing of the Gospels and the stream of tradition that lies behind them without accepting the fact that the Founder of Christianity actually existed.”
Sadly, the aethiest’s dogmatic view of religion is why they are essentially akin to parasites. They reap all the benefits from the culture, morality and beliefs born from religion, yet do NOTHING to contribute to that energy. Plus, it’s not enough for them not to have faith, they must persist in pushing their godless, myopic ideology on the rest of us, as if they’re somehow more enlightened for living a life devoid of spirituality or hope…rather detestable and unsophisticated existence if you ask me!
Report Post »Browncoat359
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:46amThis is what happens when you model yourself after Elsworth Toohey.
Report Post »As to God becoming all mean and torturousin the book of Revelations,has Larry never read anything from the OLD Testament? THAT version of God had a serious mean streak at times!
country_hick
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:46amLarry; sounds like you have the inside track on the future. You’re so in tune with the multiverse, God, and the near future would you mind giving me the MegaMillions and Powerball numbers for this weekend?
Report Post »MomaGrisley2
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:46amFunny, seems like the news is coming directly from the pages of Revelation lately!
Report Post »Jabber
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:35pmABC said: “You parasitically enjoy the benefits of that worldview even as you hypocritically denigrate it. How sad you are!”
Isn’t that pretty much EXACTLY what you do in this forum every day?
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:41pmOnly if the one-eyed teaching the blind what colors are is parasitic, which I don’t think is the case. No, the parasite is the one who steals from another because they refuse to or cannot do it themselves. So religious people fight against teaching evolution in schools, but then demand drug regimins that rely on that same science when their child is sick. That is the definition of being a parasite. If you are so strongly wedded to your beliefs, then forego the modern drugs and find a preacher to pray for your sick loved one.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:16pmYou cou;ld of said the same thing in the 1930‘s and 40’s, during the Great War, during Napolean’s march across europe. The Book is vague and no different than Nostradamus’s writings. Anybody, like a snake oil sales man on Fox News can package his version of the Book to fit the current events.
Beck is doing nothing more than thaking your religious beliefs and using them to sell you useless products and gold trinkets.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:38pmABC is apparently unaware of the many great scientists that were Christians and their tremendous contributions to science including many things he enjoys the fruits of today. Hmmmm his thought seems contradictory to me.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:33pmWatch, a good number of scientists wore white shirts, so therefore white shirts must be credited for their scientific work…
What nonsense. The scientific work that was done was done in spite of the religious beliefs not because of it. Religion doesn’t enter into the scientific process.
You make really illogical statements. Do you know that??
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:47pmABC….you make really arrogant statements, do you know that? When you make this statement………………No, the parasite is the one who steals from another because they refuse to or cannot do it themselves. So religious people fight against teaching evolution in schools, but then demand drug regimens that rely on that same science when their child is sick. And then want to say what I posted was nonsense. And use a lame they wore white shirts example and to proceed that I make illogical statements. Well, nice try my self exalted friend, but yours is the nonsensical retort. I simply made the point that people of faith have contributed much much more than you would like to admit and continue to do so to this very day. Your retort simply exposed your own illogical argument as throwing reason and truthfulness to the wind in order to defend your stronghold against religion at all costs. The more you post to everyone the more you expose yourself as unable to reason truthful and more as someone who is stubbornly rooted in their own opinions and biases incapable of dialogue without personal insults. Typically this indicates that one is arguing from a place of weakness. If this means insulting, intimidating, and castigating so be it. Your tactics are predictable and as old as the Garden of Eden.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:28amABC is a parasite. He comes here to feed off of those he believes are less intelligent.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:46am“No half-smart religious person actually believes the book of Revelation.” You’re right Larry, only a fully smart religious person would. Half wits like you and Bill Mahar dismiss the whole book
Report Post »robin.kevin
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:09amAnyone who had actually read the Old Testament would fully understand gods hand of wraith. Oh wait I guess it wasn’t God that cause the flood, Joan cause that when we built the ark…
The fact is God loves his children yet does not spare the rod, for he loves us. (Proverbs 13:24)
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:25amrobin.kevin
Report Post »You are right! Unfortunately, even a lot of Christians don’t want to admit that side of God.
B-Neil
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:48amI know and I’m sure you know. When those idgets are in trouble, the first thing out of there mouth is, Oh God held me. They will do and say anything to get attenchen……….Carry on McDuff
Report Post »robin.kevin
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:11amI just came back to this page… I meant Noah… Dont ask where I got “Joan” from, must of still been asleep.
Reminds me though of a survey I saw. The Question was; Moses built the Ark. True or False. Most Americans will answer true!
slwolfgram
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:27amrobin.kevin
If you really want to understand the love of God try reading the New Testament. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that no one should perish but that they should have everlasting life. John 3:16 That‘s why Jesus came so that He could take all of the crap that the world has to offer and so we don’t have to if we believe in Him. God put all of our sins on Jesus and then judged Him so we don’t have to be judged in that day. The old Testament is a book of laws that no one can possible follow that’s why Jesus came and left us with two commandments not 10.
1.. Love the Lord your God with all your strength and all of yoiur mind.
2. Love youir n eighbor as yourself.
Pretty easy as far as I’m concerned. Do those 2 and you will fulfill the 10.
Noah built the Ark, not Joan of Arc and not Moses.
Report Post »Chuck Stein
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:41am@ ROBIN
Report Post »I think that some people’s perception of the acts of Deity in the Old Testament as “cruel” are simply a result of a limited understanding of the scope of existence. If you do not understand that there is an eternal existence for the soul, then you see death as the ultimate punishment. If you understand that there is an afterlife, then death is analogous to a “time out” for a child
abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:55amWhy is he a half-wit? You can only enjoy the benefits of modern science because people stood up to the tyranny of religious leaders and think for themselves. Only fools believe that a book written 2,000 or 4,000 years ago has more to teach us than modern works. And only crazy people would place more faith in those minds who are long dead rather than modern thinkers. Tell you what. When your kid is deathly ill, you go to your priest or rabbi or imam and have them pray and lay hands. I’ll take mine to a hospital where the docs will administer drugs and other technologies invented by people who follow atheistic principles. We’ll see who survives. ‘But of course you’ll take the modern medicine route and suddenly forget your irratinoal religion. Foolish, foolish hypocrite.
COMountainConservative
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:16pm@ABC
Faith ABC…. first define it then try to understand it. I know it will be difficult because you need to see with your eyes and touch with your hands. But I know that God still loves you and in that I have hope for you and will pray for you!
Hypocrisy is usually pointed out and defined by the very hypocrite himself. Think about it….!
Report Post »TEIN
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:55pmABC…the reason people know about God, understand, and adhere is because of applying principles taught in the bible and doing such by faith, meaning not knowing beforehand what the outcome would be or what to expect, but having a trust of what was recorded….just like applying a physics principle or mathematic principle without knowing the results beforehand, but trusting in words of somebody else who said that those principles work…if you haven’t applied or tried principles recorded in the bible, don’t mock and bash those who have…
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:24pmMoses built the ark…of the covenant. You know, the one in Raiders of the Lost Ark?
Report Post »Jabber
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:52pmRobin.Kevin-
I think you were confusing Joan…of Arc with THE ark. :)
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:53pmABC is right………..when my kids get sick I am taking them to the hospital to get drugs……Of course they will all die eventually……eh hmmmm……Let me think about this a little more.
Report Post »Jabber
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:44pmABC said:
‘But of course you’ll take the modern medicine route and suddenly forget your irratinoal religion. Foolish, foolish hypocrite.”
Can you explain for us why there are so many Christians who are also scientists?
Oh, and only REALLY crazy people degrade those they are talking to for reading books written by long dead authors, and then quote a Chinese philosopher ! Keep on ranting kiddo. All you are doing is providing us with EMPIRICAL evidence that PROVES that you contradict and dismantle your own arguments repeatedly. Crazy is why you continue to do it.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:30pmJabber,
Most scientists are not religious. Polls show that most are agnostics or atheists. As for the ones that manage to square religion with science, even they will give up on the religion when it conflicts with science. The tiny remainder are scientists in name only.
“Oh, and only REALLY crazy people degrade those they are talking to for reading books written by long dead authors, and then quote a Chinese philosopher ! Keep on ranting kiddo. All you are doing is providing us with EMPIRICAL evidence that PROVES that you contradict and dismantle your own arguments repeatedly. Crazy is why you continue to do it.”
Quoting Chuan-tze, a philosopher as important to Chinese thought as Aristotle is to western philosophy , proves that I am crazy? I think you are crazy to dismiss a civilization that has led the world for 11 of 12 centuries of civilization. And you are totally ignorant in claiming that you can judge me about it when you likely have never even heard of that great thinker.
Here is how your mind works: preacher, please tell me what reality is; everyone else, if what you say differs from what my preacher says, then you are crazy. All empirical evidence that may prove your preacher knows little, I’ll just ignore…
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:38pmTEIN
“ABC…the reason people know about God, understand, and adhere is because of applying principles taught in the bible and doing such by faith, meaning not knowing beforehand what the outcome would be or what to expect, but having a trust of what was recorded….”
The problems with this statement are multiple. The bible says that when you divorce and remarry, you commit adultery. The Bible says it is sinful to be rich or, more accurately, it is harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven. Yet believers get divorced at a 50% rate, and conservatives are always howling about how godless socialists are threatening their wealth. The hypocrisy of quoting the Bible so selectively is a huge “sin” of believers.
The bigger problem is that there is no predictive value to the Bible. The supposed forecasts in the Bible themselves occurred so long ago that in all likelihood these predictions are merely made up histories that do not accurately say what happened. This is not at all like scientific research, where predictions are made and observed by multiple sources and then empirical evidence rather than fifth-hand non-eyewitness accounts confirm the claim. That you do not understand this reveals great foolishness and ignorance on your part.
“…just like applying a physics principle or mathematic principle without knowing the results beforehand, but trusting in words of somebody else who said that those principles work…”
Science is nothing like religion. There is no “faith” involved. Only empirical evidence revising constantly changing theories. All knowledge is probabilistic and constantly being revised–not by throwing away the old truth, but sharpening it with a newer picture–like the black and white picture becoming color and then become HD and then become 3-d and then becoming holographic, etc. Religious people do not understand any of this, which is why they either disparage science as “just a theory,” as if dogma were better, or they claim that science has “faith” like religion, which is not true at all.
“if you haven’t applied or tried principles recorded in the bible, don’t mock and bash those who have…”
I was born into a household of believers and sat in church for more than a decade. I am more knowledgeable about the Bible than most here. But, unlike those here, I know a lot more about alternative explanations on how we come to know reality. And those means are far better. You ought to let go of religion and embrace them.
Report Post »ThatKollegeKid
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:44pm@ABC
I fear you misunderstand the principles here. Going to a doctor does not exclude the choice of having a child blessed, or for having a prayer for providence to protect him from the illness. In the scriptures, God and Jesus never tell us to sit back and let him do it all. All the way throughout, people have to take the steps as best they can to receive the blessings (or healing, or miracles, or whatever you wish to put there) It’s funny, because even back then, it‘s shown that truly the only ones who see God’s hand in things are those that are willing to look. If you blatantly look past it, you will not see it, just as many that view science as the end all of everything, many say global warming is real. And there are many that don’t as well, but for the sake of the analogy, its the ones that say it’s there that find the reasons (or so they say) for it being real. Again, they say anyone who doesn’t see it is a fool. Now, we say that if you look, you can see God’s hand in all. Again however, unless you look for it, you won’t find it.
Now, concerning the whole doctor vs. faith thing. If you have a Bible, please go to 2 Kings, 5 and read that chapter. For a little background, there is a Captain for the King of Syria, who was stricken with leprosy, which is a chronic disease from which one in those times could be expected never to recover from. A believer who happens to be a handmaid to the wife of this guy, Naaman (thats the captain), says that its sad that there aren’t any prophets in the land. (Now, a prophet is a servant of God. There’s more to it then that, but using Amos 3:7, lets just call them God’s servants for now) Basically, it comes down to where Naaman goes to the prophet in Israel, and he tells him to go wash. He does this, and is healed, but he throws a fit first, and is basically reminded that if he had been told to do something more then just washing in a river, he would of done it, no sweat. It wasn’t the lack of going and doing stuff, it was the lack of faith there. But eventually he comes to terms with it, washes, and is healed.
Now, he did the best with what was available, and also, it wasn’t just asking God to be healed, and then being healed. There was action involved. There are instances throughout the Bible where there is healing purely on faith, but for a majority, Jesus and God require us to do, not just ask. Going to the doctor is simply a step that we can take on our own.
Furthermore, before you go about saying that miracles in the Bible aren’t true, I happen to be a firm believer that God created the rules that govern this world, the physical laws such as physics, chemistry, biology, and so on. I also believe that he works by them, which is why its so hard for people not to see the miracles when they happen to be standing right in front of them. The general thought process is similar to Evolutionary creationism, or Theistic Evolution. I don’t believe in so called evolutionary theory, but there is natural progression in all things as life continues on.
So please, think before posting a blatantly untrue blanket scenario next time
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:46pmSo if your kid disobeys you, you need to stone him/her to death. I guess the Muslims have it correct?
Report Post »tintin
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:53pmAmen
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:23amABC is a half-witted fool, absolutely crazy and a hypocrite. He has less knowledge about the bible than my little finger, and he continuously talks utter nonsense.
Report Post »quicker
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:43amWhy don`t they just go away.Nobody cares what they think.
Report Post »JoeyBagaDonuts
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:08amWhen and if the end comes in our life time, we Christians who cling to our Bible and believe the revelation are ready for it.
But these self-proclaimed intellectual commie-libs who love to mock us and our faith. Cling to evolution, without a shred of bone evidence of any species that ever existed to prove this process. Everything has missing links, there should be missing links littering the earth if evolution was fact not theory. Global warming, loaded with proven-conspired-made up data. Their faith in the religion of No-god makes them believe in whatever the flavor of scientific theory is of the month. They won’t be ready for the end.
Now that this commie-lib assured us the end won’t come, we might start having the same results of when they assured us the earth was getting warmer. These Global warming winters have been the coldest, with the most snow in my 50+ years of life.
If any Commie-libs are reading this check out Isaiah 47:10-15, think of it as the latest scientific theory.
Report Post »stopspendingourmoney
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:13amIt took everything I had to watch this, how does anyone stand this guy?
Report Post »Psychosis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:07pmmommy must have given ABC his computer back
go away troll
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:16pmPsychosis is a moron. Go away moron.
Report Post »UpstateNYConservative
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:40pm@abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:51am
Actually, what is crazy is an atheist of the angry variety coming to a blog site he knows is chock-full of Christians. What is your purpose, why would you want to be around people like us? There are other atheists here and agnostics, yet only you seem to have a hatred for people of faith. That makes me wonder–is it we who disturb you so much, or are you truly angry at God? If the latter, which only you can answer in your own head, then you need to consider any such anger at God excludes your boast of disbelief in Him.
We Christians really lose nothing if we’re wrong, for the energy of life simply returns to the Universe as Einstein postulated. But if we’re right and you are one wrong…Well, up to you.
I also find foolishness in your trying to equate Islam with Christianity. Your relativism is mere sophistry, if you look deeper. And, for a further deep look if you’re up to it, you’re ignoring that the teachings of Jesus are the highest social order anyone ever espoused. That new commandment He preached, “love thy neighbor as thyself”, is a concept no one ever before heard. And that’s only the beginning.
If we’re mad and belong in straightjackets, then why are you here among us? Do you wish to discuss with an open mind, holding a live-and-let-live view, or do you come here just to insult people?
If the latter, then you might want to consider in your self-presumed morality that you are just as evil as you seem to think we Christians are.
Report Post »marine249
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:12pmUPSTATE
abc dosen’t want to be
Report Post »just by himself in the hereafter
watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:27pmEveryone except ABC is a nut job. He is the only one that knows what he is talking about !!!!
Report Post »See let me show you………….Prove there is a God, prove it…..You can’t. See, See obviously no God. I used to be a person of faith until ABC pointed out some now pretty obvious points that changed my whole perspective.
Jabber
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:49pmWatchtheotherhand-
Except that student of actual logic understand that proof of absence is not absence of proof.
Report Post »marine249
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:50pmWATCHTHEOTHERHAND
Prove there is no GOD——-prove it !!
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:59pmGuys guys guys………that is friendly fire there !!!! I am being sarcastic. I am a strong believer. I am using absurdity to emphasize a ridiculous point.
Report Post »Jabber
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:33pmI know you are Watch. I was trying to “hint” that if ABC is such an adherent to logic and reason-he shouldn’t engage in arguments that ignore the rules of both. :-)
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:53pm@ JABBER….ha ha my bad guess I am the doofus huh? When I saw the second post to me I thought maybe I sounded serious. Too funny. Keep up the good fight JABBER appreciate your comments.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:25pmIt is so amusing watching the fools here prove my point: the very act of believing your religious myths makes you dumb. You cannot even make logical arguments or understand the spoken language unless your religious leader spells out the “kosher” interpretation that you slavishly follow.
Watch, your sarcasm hardly hides the fact that you and others substitute belief for knowledge at the expense of a firm grasp on reality. Mock me if you want, but you have not disproven the veracity of what I say.
Islesfordian
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:06pmABC probably doesn’t realize that some of us here who believe in the Bible do so without subscription to an established line of teaching. As an Anglican we don’t HAVE “religious leaders” in that sense (I wish we DID). Nevertheless, despite having no formal authority to keep us in line those of us who recognize the supreme authority of the Bible as the Word of God are able to come to a surprising level of agreement on things, and when we disagree we find there are rational grounds for argument rather than shouting our opinions at one another.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:10pmI keep on saying that to the mindless holy rollers and the brain dead 700 club watchers, but they are still here.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:15pmJoey is still ignorant and wrong, even if folks here are too insecure to handle the truth and must censor my posts to feel good about themselves. If they are so cnofident in their beliefs they wouldn’t need to censor. It is the most sure sign that they are afraid of the truth… The Blaze remains a joke of a site and it does great damage to the human mind by poisoning it with untruths and then removing posts that set the record straight. If you cannot debate me, then go away. But if you cannot debate me and then censor me, you are as bad as the Soviet propagandists. How pathetic you are!!
abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:17pmFordian, you also come to agreement with most Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and atheists. So what? It means that humans have a lot in common as members of the same species. What of it? It doesn’t prove that religious belief is rational or helpful to the human mind.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:21pmOuted once again by ABC, buggers ( I thought that was pretty good sarcasm)…………..I detect bitterness in you my friend. Bitterness is a root that will grow up and defile many ABC…..Unfortunately, it is not those of faith who are slaves to their masters as you suggested. Satan is a cruel task master and unfortunately he is having his way with you.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:30pm@ ABC…….look back at your comments calling people fools, idiots, uneducated morons, hypocrites, and on and on because they hold to a faith in God…….You tell me who is driving your attitude? You will know a tree by its fruit.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:45pmWatch, apparently a tree of knowledge produces fruit that tastes foul to ignoramuses. What can I tell you?
Tell me, do you call out the folks who are criticizing dictators for keeping their people in slavery? Do you choose to effectively defend Kim Jung-il when people call him terrible names? I don’t think so. So why do you criticize me for calling out the same slavery of the mind that all this religious nonsense locks people into? You can criticize me for the rough language, but you cannot lay a glove on my contention that religion is irrational, a waste of time, and a threat to reasoned thought. So keep up the ad hominem arguments, but use them in an equal measure the next time some right-wing guy calls out Iran for its religious intolerance.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:03pmCalling out evil men who mistreat their people as wicked and calling individual people who are visiting a news website to check on the stories and maybe make a comment here or there that may be faith based, idiots, morons and so on, are hardly the same thing. Do you not see that? You are simply bitter against God and fight against those who might claim to cling to Him. S.E. Cupp is an atheist but she does not feel threatened by people of faith as you obviously do. Why do you feel the need to attack, what are you afraid of? It has to come from a deep seated place inside you. Your anger is a form of slavery and it is controlling you to a degree. I wish you could see that.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:18pmWatch, get real:
“Calling out evil men who mistreat their people as wicked and calling individual people who are visiting a news website to check on the stories and maybe make a comment here or there that may be faith based, idiots, morons and so on, are hardly the same thing.”
Right. The folks here defending the ridiculous idea that religion is rational and helpful to our being moral is hardly “making a comment here or there.” They are defending a slavery of the mind and demanding that others fall into line, which is why Mikey thinks that Fox ought to censor non-believers, and Hannity and O’Reilly wage a fake war in the name of X-mas each year. Please stop. It is these belief systems that lead to unequal protection under the law for gays. It leads to idiotic science policy concerning stem cell research or global warming. And it leads to a continual fight to demand that schools teach evolution. These are hardly minor matters. You can pretend that the religious right doesn’t have a very harmful agenda, but they do. And they ought to be called out on it, just as tyrants in third world are.
“You are simply bitter against God and fight against those who might claim to cling to Him. S.E. Cupp is an atheist but she does not feel threatened by people of faith as you obviously do.”
There you go claiming you can read my mind again. S.E. Cupp is not very smart, which is why she can be an atheist but not criticize religious people. Or rather, she is a shrewd pundit who knows that her market for conservative ideas and books will be cut in half if she alienates the religious folks. Either way, she is glossing over the irrationality of religious folks, which makes her not very honest as an intellectual or social critic.
“Why do you feel the need to attack, what are you afraid of? It has to come from a deep seated place inside you. Your anger is a form of slavery and it is controlling you to a degree. I wish you could see that.”
Was Socrates afraid of the ignorant when he went around and convincingly established that they didn’t know anything that they claimed they did? Or was he just committed to truth more than the talking heads and religious idiots of his day? Why should it be any different now? People are just as lazy and eager to follow others rather than think for themselves. And there have always been many around who demand more of themselves and others. To criticize the religious and reveal th stupidity of their beliefs is not to hate them. To hate them would be to throw them to the lions as the Romans did. I am not threatened by religious nonsense, but I am saddened that people choose to remain so dumb and enslaved.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:30pmABC……you may old on to your bitterness and hatred, but I can promise you it will effect you and ultimately those around that you care about in one way or another. Do you think me a slave, an imbecile that can’t reason or think? Do you really think me evil because I would hold to a belief in God? That is what you have called many here today. I do feel sorry that you seemed to be consumed with bitterness toward faith in general and those who would hold to it. It seems that perhaps you may have been harmed by someone in the past that claimed to be a person of faith or something along that vain. I know you will think this is a slam, but despite all my joking with you and sarcasm, when I lay my head down tonight I will remember you and pray for you (I mean that sincerely and not at all as a dig). I hope some day my friend that you would reconsider your position on this issue. I really do believe Jesus died to demonstrate His love for you. I know you are a sharp guy, I hope you would possibly investigate with seriousness and sincerity the person he was and the evidence for Him.
Report Post »kentuckywonder69
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:48pmBecause you argue with them. You never hear the sound of one hand clapping. Their thing is to argue with you regardless of what you say. Just don’t reply, and let them argue with each other – or with them selves. If they argue with themselves, at least they know what they’re talking about.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:16amABC is a foolish and lazy moron, besides being a dumb, wrong, insecure, and pathetic ignoramus. He is not very smart and basically is an irreligious idiot.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:11amAnd he is a coward who lets others fight for him.
Report Post »Mack truck
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:43amI think he needs a mirror.
Report Post »Ken
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:13amHe’ll shatter it with one look.
Report Post »TheLascone
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:13amWe need reporters that look for the real story ..
Report Post »http://www.flickr.com/photos/23630227@N06/5535558309/
walkwithme1966
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:27amI will admit that I watch O‘Donnell but I don’t know how much longer I will be watching – its not just the writing but also his presentation – he is very dull and boring and not very interesting to listen too. Their evening line up is really sooo bad!! http://wp.me/pYLB7-KJ
Report Post »Old Truckers
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:50amThe value of Revelation is paramount in understanding our present and future condition. To ignore or belittle Revelation is a grave mistake.
Jesus Christ became King in heaven in the year 1914. (Daniel 7:13, 14)
Soon after he received Kingdom power, Jesus took action. “War broke out in heaven,” says the Bible. “Michael [another name for Jesus] and his angels battled with the dragon [Satan the Devil], and the dragon and its angels battled.”* Satan and his wicked angels, the demons, lost that war and were cast out of heaven to the earth.
God’s faithful spirit sons (angels) rejoiced that Satan and his demons were gone.
Humans, however, would experience no such joy. Instead, the Bible foretold: “Woe for the earth . . . because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.”—Revelation 12:7, 9, 12.
Does this not explain our present troubled times? Ignore Revelation at your own peril my friends.
Well-Armed-Lamb
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:29pm@OldTruckers I appreciate your defense of the book of Revelation but you are way off in your interpretations. 1914? You must be a Jehovah’s Witness. Michael another name for Jesus? That’s news to me. Michael is an angel. Jesus is the Son of God and God according to John 1:1. The Bible interprets itself. All the answers are there for those who pray for clarity. Interpret the Bible at your own peril. Obfuscation and sophistry can be dangerous.
Report Post »Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:48pm@ WELLARMED…..be careful entering into a conversation with OLD TRUCKER….he will just call you a blasphemer and castigate your beliefs and pointing out his obvious errors in exegesis. I know from experience he is not interested in hearing anything you say. Just some friendly advice from me to you. BTW You were right on the money with what you said.
Report Post »Bearfoot
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:15pmWell-Armed-Lamb,
Just because something is “news to you” does not necessarily make it wrong news. There are good reasons to focus on 1914 and when Jesus Presence would begin.
Matthew 24:3 While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”
As for Michael, this requires study, and a person needs to get a firm understanding that Jesus is not God, the Father. Before Jesus came to the earth, he was known as the WORD. After he was resurrected and joined his Father Jehovah in the heavens, Revelation calls him Michael.
This of course, just like all subjects in the Bible requires diligent study. If you are truly wanting to know the Bible accurately, I’m sure you can figure out where to go.
I was once resistant to “new” Bible understanding because I was not instructed properly in my old Baptist Church. New can be good.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:32pm@ WELL ARMED…….I am sure you don’t need my input as you seem like a smart person, but BEAR is of the same mind as OLD TRUCKER.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:35pm@ WELL ARMED……..and yes I am pretty sure they are both Jehovah’s Witness. That is why they like to say Jesus is not God and Michael is his name.
Report Post »Bearfoot
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:37pmSounds like WATCHTHEOTHERHAND doesn’t like anyone to disagree with his most wonderful, magnificent, college educated superiority over the rest of us.
Report Post »He does not like the idea that he could be wrong.
watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:38pm@ WELL ARMED…………that’s where they get the date 1914 (it is a Watchtower teaching). Don’t even try to talk to them about Hell. Their twisting of scripture is dangerous. Here is a link for your quick reference if you care.
http://4witness.org/jehovahs_witness/jw_exp.php
Report Post »Bearfoot
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:43pmIf you want accurate information and not a prejudiced opinion:
http://www.watchtower.org
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:48pm@ BEAR….I am wrong all the time. How ’bout you? I disagree strongly with your beliefs though. And from me to another fellow believer I am just passing along a brotherly warning about who you guys are and where you are coming from. You can disagree with me all you want. And if you think I consider myself to be all those things you listed then go right ahead, it bothers me little. But I will always defend the truth against heresy, always !!!!
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Col 1
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” Rev 1
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:58pm@ WELL ARMED…………Here is a nice ministry website run by ex-JW who now list their teachings and what they espouse. Great resource for the future.
http://www.watchthetower.com/
Report Post »Bearfoot
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:06pmwatchtheotherhand,
I agree with Colossians 1:13-20
Revelation 1:8 refers to the Almighty God Jehovah.
Report Post »Verses 4-7 is speaking of our Lord Jesus.
Starting in verse 9, John starts his narration of the signs John would see. A careful reading and a comparison of various bible translations will help us to understand what Rev. 1:1 introduces.
Bearfoot
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:10pmWell, I guess we are beginning to understand who watchtheotherhand truly is.
Prejudice is a ugly thing.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:18pm@ BEAR ..Oh really? ………………..on Rev 1:8 and who it refers to.
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Rev 1 This was Jesus and He clear states the he is the first and last.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:19pmI am most definitely prejudice against false teachings never against people !!!!
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:31pm@ BEAR ……………Obviously your exegesis cannot be correct given that you attribute the Alpha and Omega statement to the Father…………. 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Then Jesus clearly says later on He is the first and Last in the verse I previously posted.
Try reading “Pure Grace” by Dan Hall
Report Post »Well-Armed-Lamb
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:52pm@Watchtheotherhand Thanks for covering my back. Have studied the Bible nearly all of my life and it still amazes me how many interpretations can be made of it. As you know, and they apparently don’t, prayer and a relationship with the Eternal is the only way to receive the truth. It isn’t something a person can acquire by his own means. It isn‘t something so called ’intelligence’ provides. The Lord reveals Himself and His plans through the Bible. The keys to understanding the Bible He gives to those who sincerely try to keep His commandments and repent when they don’t.
Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:54pmThe Watchtower Bible and Tract Society was the product of the life work of Charles Taze Russell, born Feb 16, 1852, near Pittsburgh, PA. In 1870, while still in his teens and without formal theological education, Russell organized a Bible class whose members eventually made him “pastor”. In 1879 he published Zion’s Watchtower which contained his own very unique interpretations of the Bible. Then in 1886 the first volume of 7 books entitled Millennial Dawn. Then Joe Rutherford became the “leader” and adopted Jehovah’s Witness. Then Nathan Knorr was next in line. JW claim to be Christians and claim the Bible as their only authority, however, they deny every cardinal Christian belief held by the Apostles and earliest church fathers such as, the Trinity, the divinity of Jesus, His bodily resurrection, salvation by grace through faith, and the eternal punishment of the wicked. They watchtower has said this of themselves “It is God’s sole collective channel for the flow of biblical truth to men on Earth.“ ”Pastor” Russell is quoted as saying the following….”If the six volumes of Scripture Studies are practically the Bible, topically arranged with Bible proof texts given, we might not improperly name the volumes ‘the Bible in an arranged form’, that is to say, they are not mere comments on the Bible, but they are practically the Bible itself……Furthermore, not only do we find that people cannot see the divine plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the Scripture Studies aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for 10 years, if he then lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the Scripture Studies with their references and had not read a page of the Bible as such, he would be in the light at the end of two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures “. That is scary stuff my fellow Christians. Currently the number of JWs is around 2 million or so in the US.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:56pmAmen WELL ARMED amen…….and BTW I knew you didn’t me to defend you. When you got the truth it stands all on its own. Keep fightin’ the good fight my friend.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:58pmArguing with JWs and Mormons is about as fruitful as arguing with liberals. Actually, less so. They love their new interpretations because it tickles their ears and their fancies to know more than the other unenlightened and uneducated masses. You can’t argue scripture with them because their key to understanding it is unique to them and totally independent of objective criteria for interpretive tools.
You might as well argue with Charlie Sheen.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:05pm@ ISLES….couldn’t agree more with you my friend I just want false teachings to be exposed that others might be susceptible to. I really appreciate your “spirit” (ha ha) again the other night. Someday we will be able to meet each other and laugh about our discussion. Can’t wait for that day !!!!!
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:34pm@ BEAR ………….well I am glad to see that you agree with the Colossians passage seeing how it says that Jesus created all things and was not created. He is the creator. That seems weird that you hold to something different than the Watchtower though.
Report Post »Bearfoot
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:27pmwatchtheotherhand,
Just stop it, I have to say you are just making a fool of yourself. You are like a mad dog, determined to rip your prey to pieces. The Pharisees did the same thing to Jesus, going so far as to plan to kill him. And for what? Because they did not want to hear the truth, they preferred their traditions.
Why do you dislike Jehovah’s Witnesses? Is it because they worship the only true God, the God who sent His own dear Son to this confused world, to sacrifice His first born for the benefit of you and me and the whole of mankind? Is it because they recognize that Jesus is God’s Son and they are separate entities? I am not going to go on and one with you, I want to talk to people who can think about our relationship with Jehovah God and the Son, Jesus in a calm and reasonable way.
That seems impossible with you so let each other go our way in peace.
I said I agree with Colossions. I also agree with the entire Bible, and all that is written therein. And so does all of my friends. We do not twist the scripture to align with false teaching or traditions of men.
Report Post »Bearfoot
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:47pmBy the way, if you are going to give us a history lesson, at least get your facts straight.
Report Post »They slandered and lied about our Lord Jesus also. So I guess I can roll with the punches here.
watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:23pm@ BEAR………..First of all I do not dislike JW at all, just their false teachings. And speak of attacking Jesus, He attacked the false teaching of the Pharisees and they hated him for it, kinda like you growling back at me. He exposed their twisting of the scriptures and their idolatry. I have presented facts about what you believe and the origins of it and all you have done is again attack me personally by calling me prejudice and then Pharisaical without dealing in facts whatsoever. Prove one thing I stated as slander. I have references and the facts speak for themselves. Just go ahead and prove me wrong in anything I have stated. I invite you to do so using factual information that may be verified. And if what I have done here is unreasonable, then explain Jesus’ own actions against false teachings. As well as, Paul, Peter, Timothy, James and the early church fathers. I am defending the truth of God’s word and the fact that Jesus is God the Second personage of the Trinity and because you think it is personal you respond to me by disparaging me personally. I will await any response to the facts I have presented.
Report Post »Theleftisda
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:00pm@Bearfoot
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:06pm
watchtheotherhand,
I agree with Colossians 1:13-20
Revelation 1:8 refers to the Almighty God Jehovah.
Verses 4-7 is speaking of our Lord Jesus.
Starting in verse 9, John starts his narration of the signs John would see. A careful reading and a comparison of various bible translations will help us to understand what Rev. 1:1 introduces
—————————————————————————————————————————————————-No man is holy enough to speak God’s name
Psalm 89:26 He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God …
… He will say to me, You are my father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation. … He shall
Report Post »call unto me, Thou art my father,…
watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:27pmThe divinity of Jesus
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
Matthew 1:22-23: All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: “The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel – which means, “God with us.”
Hebrews 1:7-8: In speaking of the angels he (God) says, “He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire.” But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.”
Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
John 8:56-58: “Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” “You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham?” “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am.” Exodus
3:14 which reads, God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Obviously, Jesus was claiming to be the same “I AM” (God) who spoke to Moses.
John 10:30-33: Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.” Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
Matthew 14:32-33 where Jesus accepted worship from the disciples)
John 14:6-9: Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how do you say, ‘Show us the Father’?”
Just a few for people to chew on.
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:47amWhy does WATCHTHEOTHERHAND attack without provocation OLD TRUCKERS and BEARFOOT in this comment string?
Report Post »Right out of the box, he goes for their throat. He is looking for prey and he has them in his sights.
Interesting isn’t it? Why does he want to dominate so much space here on the Blaze? hhmmm…
watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 10:02am@ WHITEFANG…………..you are cut from the same mold as the two you want to defend. Your guys went after me and my beliefs a number of days ago. OLD TRUCKER called me a blasphemer and to go away because I made him sick. Then BEAR wrote in on this thread and challenged me because I gave a friendly warning to a fellow believer. Nice attempt to twist what happen here but all one needs to do is go back and see where BEAR challenged me. Again, you guys just can’t handle when someone comes along and exposes you guys for who you are. So say whatever you want about me. I am the one that has been called a Pharisee, and a blasphemer and prejudice by your buddies and I have never retorted to those personal jabs with anything but facts. The record speaks for itself if anyone cares to read the threads for themselves. You are a sympathizer with the two you named and probably a JW yourself so your comment is disingenuous and self serving when you don’t state your position before making a comment like that. All you could do is follow in the same foot steps of your two buddies and attack my character. That I mean, a ravenous dog “going for the throat”, yet interestingly enough could not deny any facts I presented or even bothered dealing with facts. I challenge you the same as I did them prove one thing I stated about JW, its origins and its beliefs. Please prove me wrong!!!!!! Again, I will await for facts and endure personal attacks.
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 6:38pmCould it be possible you are jumping to conclusions that were not actually stated by “the two guys”?
Report Post »They are just bringing out what the scriptures actually say and why does that offend you?
I have noticed your quoted scriptures seem to be of a translation I do not recognize.
What translation of the scriptures do you quote from if I may ask?
It seems the present conflict is the result of how your bible renders the verses.
Does it consistently refer to Jesus as being the Almighty God or are you suppling your own words?
watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 10:19pm@ WHITEFANG….of course you don’t recognize any translation but your own if you are JW because it has been falsely translated to support your views. No reputable scholar supports JWs translation of many verses that they must alter to support their views. This includes secular scholars as well as Jewish scholars. You have no solid foundation scripturally to stand on and the original texts do NOT support or say what you would like them to without tweaking them into a wrong representation of the original. Believe me if you want to debate in that area we can certainly get after it. However, you still want to give a pass to all the things your friends have attacked me with, while I never did get personal. I am still waiting for any proof that I have slandered or misstated anything about the origins or beliefs of JWs. I will continue to await.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 1:23am@ WHITEFANG……I will get the ball rolling if you are interested, let’s take John 1:1, shall we?
The JW New World Translation would read…“The word was a god”, which makes Jesus less than God, relegating him to a created being in accordance with Watchtower theology. However, there is absolutely no reputable authority or readings to support this view except one little ole Unitarian translation from 1808 (The NT in an Improved Version Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text), which is hardly excepted as reputable by any other source or group except Watchtower. JWs contend that when theos (Greek for God) appears in John 1:1 it appears twice, once with the definite article [the] and once without. When it appears without the definite article (in the last clause of John 1:1) they feel justified in translating it, “And the Word was a god.”
In the first 18 verses of John’s gospel, the word for God -theos- appears six times without the definite article (vss 1,6,12,13, and twice in 18). Yet it is rendered God (referring to Jehovah) in each instance except for the last clause of the verse when it refers to Jesus. Why? Because this would destroy your false argument that Jesus is not God but created. So the original verse is twisted in the translation to say something it does not say !!!! It should be noted that the absence of the definitive article does NOT indicate someone other than the true God. The entry on theos in the authoritative Arndt and Gingrich Greek Lexicon states theos is used “quite predominantly of the true God, sometimes with, sometimes without, the article.” For a group that declares belief in only the one true God (which is exactly right and my belief is accurate in that as it is what the whole Bible teaches that God is 3 persons all one in their nature, being the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) their translation of acknowledging Jesus as “a god” rather than Jehovah ironically places them in the group known as polytheists (belief in more than one god).
Other verses we can debate John 14:28, Colossians 1:15, John 8:58 just to list a couple for you
Also, the year 1914 mentioned by your friend OLD TRUCKER earlier in this thread has an interesting history. Let’s discuss that a bit further shall we. You believe that is when God’s kingdom was fully set up in heaven, right? But it wasn’t what JWs always believed and taught before 1914, is it? Nope, you guys taught it was to be set up on Earth in 1914, not heaven, it was taught as the “terminus of the time of the Gentiles”, was it not? Then when that didn’t pan out the teaching was altered to say Jesus returned invisibly to set up his kingdom in heaven instead of Earth. This however, has absolutely no scriptural support whatsoever. Actually, the scriptures teach the exact opposite (Acts 1:11, Matt 24:26,27, Rev 1:7). That means that Charles Russel was guilty of false prophecy. (Deut.18:21,22). I await your response although I doubt seriously if I receive one that deals with facts. Probably just more personal jabs about how mean and ravenous and prejudice I am along with being a blasphemer equal to an unclean swine, while you think of yourselves as suffering the same persecution of Christ by a Pharisee. Only difference, Jesus confronted their twisted reasoning of scripture and their hardheartedness and they attacked him personally and called him a blasphemer too, they never dealt with His facts.
That is just one of many examples WHITEFANG that we can go to of your “translation” called the New World Translation produced by the Watchtower society. Again, I have remained non-personal in my presentation of my facts and would appreciate the same should you choose to respond. Again, I am the one that has been called out over the past few days by several JWs for my beliefs. I have been slandered and personally denigrated. You may call it vicious and mean all you want, but all I have done is expose your false twisting of scripture and your dangerous beliefs that I see posted on the Blaze all the time. This time I have decided to stand on the truth and expose your beliefs for anyone who cares or is reading them.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 1:29am@ WHITEFANG…….BTW you may want to review the thread because your 2 friends hardly posted any scriptures and the couple they did supported nothing of what they were saying.
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 12:38pmWATCH,
Old Truckers has evidently made the determination not to respond to you any further.
It looks like Bearfoot also is tired of your rhetoric as he has become silent to your constant long winded questions designed only to antagonize and to draw them into a fight.
One thing you need to know about Jehovah‘s Witnesses is that we only want to help people come to an accurate knowledge of God’s love and to understand the truth surrounding His Son, Jesus, the Messiah. We want to tell people of the blessings to come to this earth, to mankind when God’s Kingdom is fully realized on this earth. Matthew 24:14, 28:19-20, Daniel 2:44, 7:13-14
We are fully committed to our ministry and we try (in our imperfection) to converse with others without wrangling and arguments. Sometimes, just like everyone else, we can get overly excited and we come across as overbearing or unyielding. Old Truckers did this. We come to regret our words we speak in our frustration. We can become frustrated when people ignore the scriptures in favor of their traditional acceptance of a wrong or unscriptural belief. The scripture are so clear and we find it hard to understand how some can have a wrong understanding of those scriptures. We are ashamed of ourselves when we lose patience but in the end we try to make peace.
We have a difficult time with some who cannot see that Jesus himself, many times and in different ways, explained that he was obedient to the direction of his Father, Jehovah. In John chapter 17, which is a prayer that Jesus uttered to his Father, is filled with examples of this attitude of Jesus.
We are just ordinary people, nothing special in ourselves, but we do have the help of God’s Holy Spirit that helps us carry out our ministry. We put ourselves out to the public, not because we get love from them, but that we love them, and want only the best for everyone in God’s love through our Lord Jesus.
Report Post »We love our one True God Jehovah, and we are trying to be obedient to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Old Truckers
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 2:17pmThank you Whitefang for your reminders.
Report Post »I apologize to Watchtheotherhand for my indiscreet words.
watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 2:20pm@ WHITEFANG……….I can appreciate very much that we all say things we regret. I have done it many times. My point was not to point a condemning finger at anyone unless of course I was to condemn myself. My point was to address that my facts could not be argued or disputed so the retort was more of a personal nature. And like you I try to love people, even those who would persecute me. But you must realize that part of loving people in truth is to rightly divide the Word. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees saying that they traveled over land and see to make disciples and when they succeeded they made men twice the son of Hell. And herein lies the crux of our disagreements. Your version or “translation” is not accurate and does not stand up to the literary standards for proper translation. Jesus most definitely makes himself submissive to the Father. Absolutely no argument here form me at all. But this is in reference to his position as the sacrificial son or lamb of God, it was His position not his nature that was in submission (There are many verses in the New Testament which confirm the divinity of Christ. In John 20:28 Thomas falls to Jesus’ feet saying, “my Lord and my God!” and Jesus does not rebuke or correct Him. In John 5:18 Jesus “called God His Father, making himself equal with God.” In John 1:1 we are told that “the Word [Jesus] was God”. John 8:58-59 speaks of Jesus’ divinity both by talking about His eternal nature and also by using the name of God; “I AM” – – this should be compared with Exodus 3:14, 20:7, Leviticus 19:12 and 24:14-16. Would Jesus (an observant Jew) make such a claim and use the very name of God so casually in light of the teaching in these verses?
Report Post »In John 10:30-33 Jesus says that He and the Father are one. John 10:38, 12:45 and 14:8-12 all contain clear teaching that Jesus and the Father are intimately connected. Colossians 2:9 contains a explicit teaching of Christ’s divinity, as does Timothy 2:13. There are other verses which point to the divinity of Christ, but these verses are the main ones which are explicit and easiest to understand.). It is not in reference to his nature. Phil 2 makes this very clear. So when you claim that I hold to traditional understandings I guess if you mean that I hold to what Jesus thought of himself and taught and what the Apostles taught I am most definitely guilty. I hold no grudge in my heart at all for you or BEAR or OLD TRUCKER. However, I must profess the truth of scripture from what I see as a dangerous twisting about who Jesus really was. I am sure this will not sway you guys at all but in case anyone may read these threads (which may be no one for all I know) I feel I must given a reason for the hope that lies within me that remains as true as possible to the spiritual reality that is revealed by the whole council of God.
watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 3:08pm@ OLD TRUCKER……………of course I forgive you !!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 3:30pm@ WHITEFANG………….The bottom line of my intent is this one time I am following a position held by the Watchtower………..”"It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false, thus allowing persons to see the difference between false religion and true religion. But in order to make the exposure and show the wrong religions to be false, the true worshiper will have to use an authoritative means of judgment, a rule of measurement that cannot be proved faulty. To make a public exposure of false religion is certainly of more value than exposing a news report as being untrue; it is a public service instead of a religious persecution and it has to do with the eternal life and happiness of the public. Still it leaves the public free to choose.” (Watchtower 1963 11/15 688)
Report Post »YellowFin
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 1:14pmThis forum, the Blaze, does not lend itself to a in-depth discussion of any subject, especially religious differences.
This is because we are limited to short comments, and cannot properly converse as is possible in a personal conversation.
When we enter a religious subject here, all commentators are at a disadvantage and cannot fully explain their points. Nor can they answer the barrage of questions that fly their way.
It is a shame that Christians who have their bibles cannot see eye to eye. I don’t think our Lord Jesus wants it that way.
1 Corinthians 1:10-17 Now I exhort YOU, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that YOU should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among YOU, but that YOU may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought. 11 For the disclosure was made to me about YOU, my brothers, by those of [the house of] Chlo´e, that dissensions exist among YOU. 12 What I mean is this, that each one of YOU says: “I belong to Paul,” “But I to A·pol´los,” “But I to Ce´phas,” “But I to Christ.” 13 The Christ exists divided. Paul was not impaled for YOU, was he? Or were YOU baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I am thankful I baptized none of YOU except Cris´pus and Ga´ius, 15 so that no one may say that YOU were baptized in my name. 16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Steph´a·nas. As for the rest, I do not know whether I baptized anybody else. 17 For Christ dispatched me, not to go baptizing, but to go declaring the good news, not with wisdom of speech, that the torture stake of the Christ should not be made useless.
Conflicting religious doctrines and false religions are a effective tool of Satan, the god of confusion and lies.
Report Post »coreytrice
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:40amSad
Report Post »Marylou7
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:45amditto
Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:54amI would add:
Pathetic.
Desperate.
Delusional.
Demented.
Denial prone.
Wimpering.
Wimbelling.
Dale
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:54amI wish I were as smart as o’donnell.
Bklein2011
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:27amThey payed that guy for Ranting like that. I think MSNBC is just trying to make people feel sorry for them….
Citizen
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:28amPoor guy God turned him over to a reprobate mind. Perhaps one day he will see the Light.
Report Post »michael48
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:29amthere are No Atheist in foxholes…..
Uncle Sambo Lives Here
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:37amBut but but… I thought MSNBC wasn’t a left-leaning organization! Wow, I’m SHOCKED! O,O
abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:48amMichael, there actually are atheists in foxholes. My high shool buddy is an atheist and a member of the special forces units in Afghanistan and Iraq. Only an ignorant jerk like you would dishonor him with such remarks. By the way, there do not seem to be any atheist suicide bombers, so be careful how much credit you give religion. You obviously overestimate its unique benefits, while ignoring its terrible weaknesses. Fool!
N5DVC
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:54amFor the sake of my children, for the sake of my grandchildren, let God cast Lawrence O’Donnell mute.
Oh, wait… He’s on MSNBC – he IS mute.
CatB
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:58amWhen is PMSNBC going to weed out the crazies? .. I am NOT for censorship .. but this is “billed” as a news network. … it seems to be the crazies network. What is in the water over there?
Obamunism
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:08pmHas anyone ever noticed that MSLSD makes a living off of bashing Fox News, as opposed to actually reporting news? You have to be a special kind of person to watch MSLSD and take them seriously. Ed “Burn the whole place down” Schultz, Rachel “Madcow” Maddow, Cenk “you” Uygar (who they found off Youtube. What a champion.), and Lawrence “of Arabia” O’Donnell are all talking heads with no education or credibility. Oh, but wait, they have Joe “blow” Scarborough!!!!!! Psych!!!
Libertarian
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:11pmI find it interesting that news media reports on the opinions of other news media.
Its kind of pathetic.
CultureWarriors
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:15pmWhat kind of moron do you have to be to alienate 50% of your potential audience. No wonder they are in last place, they – be – dumber – than – a – box – of – rocks. Of course that‘s what you’d expect. They are after all liberals. And we ALL know that liberals are the dumbest among us. To be liberal you must be able to convince yourself that something that has NEVER worked in all of human history will now somehow work. Insanity.
TEIN
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:34pmPoor Lawrence, can‘t verbalize the difference between an epic event of earthquakes and the overhyped spin of media’s nuclear disaster…..but then again he may be spinning and “dumbing down” content for the Libby/Progressive target audience…
jblaze
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:35pmGod’s Spirit reveals the things of God—the plan of God, the potential for man, and yes, the very nature of God. We simply cannot understand the nature of God without His Spirit dwelling in us.
1 Corinthians 2:14 makes that abundantly clear: “But the natural man RECEIVETH NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” How are they spiritually discerned? “But God hath revealed them unto us BY HIS SPIRIT: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God” (verse 10).
If Lawrence O’Donnell had the spirit of God dwelling in him, he would never have said those things because he would have a relationship with God. But the very good news is that Mr. O’Donnell and all others who do not know God will one day have the opportunity to repent and to truly know God our creator and Father who loves us all.
A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:48pm@abc,
“By the way, there do not seem to be any atheist suicide bombers, so be careful how much credit you give religion. You obviously overestimate its unique benefits, while ignoring its terrible weaknesses. Fool!”
No atheist suicide bombers – just atheist mass murderers.
The Real Murderers: Atheism or Christianity?
http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5527
As for religion having the terrible weakness of being a catalyst for war, what you’re ignoring is the fact that ONLY religion can be the grounding for just wars. For example, it‘s ok to go to war if a country attacks you because it’s actually morally wrong to attack someone without cause.
So, even though the wrong religious views can cause immoral wars, you would actually expect every good war to be based on religious views.
Atheism, on the other hand, is an adequate justification for every evil, since evil doesn‘t actually exist if there’s no God.
Katayno
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 12:57pmSo sad that Larry‘s whole program consists of RERUNNING O’Reilley and Beck’s programs. Fox needs to be getting ROYALTIES. Larry knows nothing about the Bible. It‘s not’s whats going on in Japan….it’s what is going to happen to Israel if all these countries that are being taken over by rebels wanting to take out Israel. It’s not the wrath of a mean GOD towards man….it’s GOD stepping in to finally stop the wrath of man against man.
FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:02pmMichael 48; yes there are. I was one of them.
watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:23pmABC is all over this one folks I think we can just end debate here. Atheists have obviously proven their superiority throughout history in all sorts of areas. While religions have demonstrated time and time again how worthless and archaic they really are. And it should be obvious even to people of faith that the more evolved intelligent atheists are above criticism unlike you silly people of faith. Typically, I would not be in favor of using such a harsh word as fool on ABCs part, but in this case I think I will make an exception. When will people learn that atheists are the only ones that have the right to be critical? I here ya ABC you obviously have nailed everyone on this post. Nobody can match wits with that kind of reasoning.
Report Post »home_of_the_brave
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:44pmIn the last days many scoffers will come.
GONESURFING
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 1:51pmSad moron.
Report Post »hairandharleys
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:09pmI applaud you, Mr. Beck for your boldness and you will be rewarded. As for you, Lawerence, I feel sorry for you and your lack of belief and hope. Some day you WILL look back on this particular “show” and relive everything you said. I hope at that time, you remember this post. No one does know the time, but I assure you it is getting close. Open your eyes and look around. If you knew anything about the Bible, you would see all the prophecys that have already come to past. I will be praying for you, Lawerence, also for all the unbelievers here. God bless!
Report Post »democratgirl
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:11pmYes, there will be a FALLING AWAY from ‘Christianity’. Hopefully, those who saw his show, will suddenly realize what he said, and then run as far away from O’Donnell as possible. Since 71% of Americans believe in God and Jesus, that must mean they also believe in the Bible. Therefore, when they hear what O’Donnell has said, they will KNOW that he is not of God, but of Satan. Then, maybe their eyes will be opened to the truth. Evil comes in all kinds of forms: lies, stealing, murder, lovers of self, perversion (sexually and other immoral ways), adultery, fornication, etc. Satan uses PEOPLE to do his bidding and cannot act out on his own. HE MUST GET A PERSON TO DO IT. Ask O‘Donnell if it’s OK to do any of the above. If he says no, then there is hope for him. If he says yes, his father is Satan and we should stay far away from him as possible. I truly believe in these last days, watching some of these horrid and immoral TV programs, will INVITE evil spirits into a person and their home. I really believe that if you KNOW a TV show is evil or immoral and you watch it anyways, you are giving Satan permission to enter in. I would not watch O’Donnell if you made me…..I cannot watch regular TV PROGRAMS as MOST of them are immoral in one way or another….think about it. If you are watching R rated movies that have sexual and perverse themes, including TV programs that promote homosexuality, cheating, lying, adultery, etc., and you claim to be a Christian or a follower of Christ, then are you really? WHOM DO YOU SERVE? Do you want to risk your soul to watch them? The devil is doing his very best in these last days to lure, persuade, and trick you into believing that it’s OK to watching anything and everything you want. NOT SO. God will hold you accountable. What goes in, does come out, in one way or another!
Wayner
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:18pmHe just doesn’t get it….. And I will still not waste an hour watching him
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:33pmSorry there is no atheist in a fox hole. There are those who love God and there are those who are ignorant of God and blinded by demons and sin. Either way, God exists, and an atheist in a foxhole does not, just a fool in a foxhole. Pray for those ignorant souls.
Everything has a beginning, as if something never starts or begins then it ceases to exist. Every action has a reaction. God’s existence can be proven. Not believing in God can not be proven as you believe in nothing. Atheists are proven ignorant fools. Pray for them.
Lawrence O is a joke. He isn’t even worth talking of.
Report Post »FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:36pmGod is not a malicious torturer or mass murderer. He has given you a choice. Believe in Him and be saved or not believe in Him and be damned. Non believers will face God one day but then it will be to late. We were put on earth to worship and love God. The ones that do will go to heaven and the ones that don’t will go to Hell. This life is just a test run to see where we will spend Eternity. If you don‘t believe then I wouldn’t wanta be ya. Hope you change your mind.
brliantedj
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 2:58pmWait, is this the STUPIDO guy you trust?
Report Post »OperationSmallGVT
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:00pmO’ donsholes tongue unravels like a ball of yarn it will soon come to an end…. he thinks his mouth is the only one that can talk
Report Post »SPKnarr
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:07pmHe’ll believe one day…and he will bow before God.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:20pmDoctor’s Labor,
“No atheist suicide bombers – just atheist mass murderers.”
There were lots of religious mass murderers as well. Look at the Popes during the Crusades. Look at the Aztecs. Look at Alexander the Great. They each killed at least one million. (The figures in your linked website grossly overstate deaths in China and elsewhere, underestimate the losses in Europe thanks to Christianity, and ignore tons of other killing in the name of religion like the deaths in India or Rwanda. Typically religious ignorance of the facts, which a faith-based upbringing always creates–mushy minds.)
“The Real Murderers: Atheism or Christianity?
http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5527”
The China numbers from the 12-14th century are vastly overstated, implying that 50% of the population was destroyed. This is total nonsensical propaganda that no Chinese historian would take seriously. There is no doubt that atheistic leaders have killed millions, but no one is claiming that being an atheist leads to better behavior. But there are millions who delude themselves into thinking that religion is a force for good, which it is not. And Dennis Prager’s ridiculous thought problem about who you would fear in a dark alley is ridiculous. What if the person in the dark ally is a Muslim uttering a prayer. How would a Christian feel? This logic is as muddled as Prager’s sad little mind. And the link you provide is total nonsense. Try citing historians, not a theologian.
“As for religion having the terrible weakness of being a catalyst for war, what you’re ignoring is the fact that ONLY religion can be the grounding for just wars. For example, it‘s ok to go to war if a country attacks you because it’s actually morally wrong to attack someone without cause.”
Wrong. Atheists when wrongly attacked can go to war and wage a just war without needing permission from your imaginary God. To believe otherwise is to insist that such atheists wrongly attacked should, according to your imaginary God, rightly die without attempting any self defense. If you actually understood religious doctrine in this area, and the Catholic Church has written more on it than any religion, there is no requirement to believe in God in order to wage a just war. You clearly know little of which you speak.
“So, even though the wrong religious views can cause immoral wars, you would actually expect every good war to be based on religious views.”
Sorry, but that is a logical non-sequitur. And if most wars fought by religious people are unjust wars, while those just wars do not require religious views to be fought, then what is the use of the religion??
“Atheism, on the other hand, is an adequate justification for every evil, since evil doesn‘t actually exist if there’s no God.”
Atheism is not the justification for evil. Atheism says that you should not commit evil because it is wrong, rather than because an imaginary God is going to get you. We have created lots of moral rules without the help of religion. And lots of atheists act morally without the fear of eternal damnation nor the gospels in the Bible. The problem is that you are claiming that people have fought wars and killed more people in the name of atheism, which isn’t true. They have killed in the name of Communism or nationalism or racism or (yes) religion. But not in the name of atheism. Your argument is totally wrong.
Bluebonnet
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 3:56pmThis disgusting person, Lawrence O’Donnell, must say the things he does out of ignorance or just plain doesn’t care about others beliefs and tries to degrade them with crude remarks. Many, unfortunately don’t understand what our bible is about, but that’s because his heart is in the wrong place. The old saying about it’s easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle than,…….is Larry & his ilk. Sorry!
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:02pm@ BEAR ………….well I am glad to see that you agree with the Colossians passage seeing how it says that Jesus created all things and was not created. He is the creator. That seems weird that you hold to something different than the Watchtower though.
MJaneO
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:03pmI only watch MS-NBC when I get tried of the real news–I can turn here for some comedy relief!
Report Post »Oregon Web Foot
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:04pmABC, “There are no atheists in foxholes” is a saying that has been around forever. I don’t think Micheal intended to disrespect your friend. Stop being such a Sensitive Susan for the sake of reaction.
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:12pmOregon, Michael seeks to belittle atheists, when they are the only ones brave enough to think for themselves. He deserves much scorn and not just from my friend whose profession reveals what an ignoramus Michael is.
restorehope
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:16pmSure would not want to be O’Donnell on Judgement Day. The hatred he spewed in life will come back to haunt him for all eternity.
Report Post »THZebra
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 4:41pmI suppose I misunderstood. I was under the impression MSDNC fired Keith Blubberman. I see now where my confusion is. Plastic surgery and a new name….same ol’ half brain.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:01pmABC
If you are Atheist, what is your purpose? And why come to this site and preach? For if you truly believe in nothing you wouldn’t have a reason to be passionate would you? Or did nothing tell you to spread the word?
Being an Atheist is for weak minded individuals in my view. I have zero respect for Atheists, as what good comes from believing in nothing. For without God you can’t have good and without good you have evil.
I bet you believe “cold” exists as well. Believing in nothing is like believing in cold, neither exist.
Report Post »boomboom
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:06pmABC…
Report Post »Simple name : Simple mind.
Switches out the douchewater for the kool aid.
Olieman
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:06pmWhat a fool! It might not be long before we see this fool replaced with another fool from PMSNBC.
Rev 1:3 Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.
He’s just another “blind leading the blind”. Pray that his eyes be opened.
Report Post »boomboom
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:08pmABC…
Report Post »SoBrave
Soooo…Brave!
calling all tart carts…ABC pickup in aisle 1.
abc
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:09pmOkie, when declare that I do not believe in nonsense, this act doesn’t make me evil. It makes me rational. If only you could marshal a rational argument, you would see this.
I am here to remind you how little you know. And how harmful religion is to those that seek to understand reality rather than hide from it.
Report Post »RJO
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:14pmLawrence who? He looks a little like Lawrence Welk….except Mr. Welk understood freedom (son of immigrant parents who faced persecution) and was an American patriot, who strongly believed in the ideals and principles of our Republic. – so I guess the similarity ends there.
MSNBC? Is that supposed to stand for something…..change it to WCNWN (Who Cares Nobody Watches Network).
Idiot.
Report Post »tarbush
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:47pmLawrence O’Who?
Report Post »Uncle Crusty
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:49pmundeniably the most hateful, anti-religeous, rant I’ve heard in a long while. this heathen needs to be taught how to be a real man, behind the woodshed, what a waste of humanity? fear sin and God, and your knowledge will save you, fear knowledge of God and the sin will kill you…this man plays with FIRE, and he will answer to a higher authority than any of us…Love the sinner, hate the sin!
Save the Republic from the Progressives, the Religion goes first, ever so slowly, now 100+ years on-going, and the guns next, pray like you’ve never before, that we make it to 2012 by the Ballot Box!
Report Post »giigii
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:49pmPeter 3:3. “First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is the ‘coming” he promised?
Report Post »Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed….” NIV Holy Bible
DJR
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 5:59pmVery sad. An athiest telling us what the bible says.
1TrueOne55
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:03pmHe’s Channeling the Ghost of Keith Olbermann.
Report Post »jv
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:05pmBy far the worst and most blatantly elitist commentary I’ve ever heard on MSNBC. Even worse than Jeannine Garafalo and that is saying a lot. They used to at least pretend to have respect for Christianity. But now with the ratings as low as they can go it appears that nothing is beneath them.
O’Donnell, himself seems to see himself as a fresh voice (maybe he likens himself as a lovable yet irrascible curmudgeon, like House). But he’s simply reiterating the stale criticisms of innumerable apostates of long past. And he isn’t even any good at it (like House is). So does he learn from his mistakes with his ratings ever dropping? No!!! Instead he doubles down and once again we see him jumping the shark (maybe for the 15th time) to even fewer viewers. I‘m guessing he’s gotten a lot of mail on this one. And hopefully his bosses have too. Pathetic. Get him off the air before he hurts himself.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:06pmABC
Evil is only the lacking of God. Just as dark is only the absence of light, “cold” is really only lack of heat.
If you lack God, or are absent from belief in God you therefore ARE evil.
The above is rational thinking to help you understand.
Believing in nothing is simply the lack of thinking, not rational thinking.
I think Einstein thought very rational, don’t you?
If you believe in “nothing” how do you have more knowledge then those who do believe in something? Isn’t it more rational to say those who believe in something know more as they learn from their belief and those who believe in nothing, well, only know nothing?
If you believe in nothing, what do you have to talk about? Rational Thinking would say you have nothing to talk about. Shhhhhhhh….
Report Post »cannakis
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:11pmHAHAHA! Yes. It is. We must Pray for His Soul.
Report Post »3N1RG8
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:22pmJBlaze took the words right out of my mouth. Well said.
Report Post »chickenbig
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:27pmPeople who do NOT fear God are all around us. Their behaviors and statements speak volumes.
Report Post »ewsilmawdebe
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:39pmYou people are Too easy!1
Report Post »Uncle Crusty
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:48pm@ewsilmawdebe
We’re easy? To a simpleton like you, who cares what you think really, LOL. But you must think you’re posting on mediamattersless.com or the huffandpuff.com website my friend, they care more about you there. If you know your history, you know the lies, it is as simple as that…and from the left spew lies, hatred, bigorty, racebaiting, talk of violent revolution, and homophobism!
Report Post »ozz
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 6:54pmThis heathen socialist could not find his @$$ in the dark with both hands and a flash light.
Report Post »thepatriotdave
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:23pmLarry is an ass!
My last comment on this thread got censored because I wrote the truth… again!
Here’s short version of why I got tossed… I don’t care if non-believers don’t believe, but I do get upset when they go out of their way to mock us believers. Once they mock us for something we hold dear to our hearts and souls, then the gloves come off and I am ready for a fight. I also mentioned its the same thing with the Gay agenda. As long as they keep it private I don’t care. But the moment you strat shoving your perversion in our faces, I will retaliate.
People like Larry only mock us because it makes them think they are superior, and we all know that’s a load of BULL! Larry should read my favorite bumper sticker… “If you live like there is no hell, you had better be right”.
Who do you want to run for POTUS in 2012?
Report Post »http://www.americasteapartynews.com/tea-blog.php#/news/
colonial10
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 7:32pmWell, whether or not it is or not, they will come. The last days will come. At least Glenn suggests that the book of Revelations is a warning and it is something to look out for. At least he has a point. This liberal fella just gives his word that we should have faith in him. Yeah, right! I think the biggest part of the book of Revelations is being ignored. Somewhere in there it speaks about people looking at the weather and questioning it, being perplexed by its strangeness. Then it goes into describing the hellish things. If it is or not we will always have liberals shouting global warming, global freezing, global shrinking, global whatever. The thing is we just need to be prepared spiritually, financially, and all other necessary means. People in the streets calling for violence, how shameful they are. They will be the cause of suffering when they start the riots that destroy the things necessary to survive. msnbc is proof that the end days could be near. There will be naysayers saying, ” everything is fine, it’s okay, nothings going to happen” We can be prepared or die.
Report Post »Miami
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 8:39pmWhat a waste of airtime, it’s like watching a monkey play with his excrement.
Report Post »MSV
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:41pmIt will feel very cold and he will be over come with a fear that is beyond his understanding when the day comes that we will meet our maker. That I do know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »Rowgue
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:41pmHoly cow. I just agreed with something ABC said. Maybe this is the end of the world.
Report Post »Rowgue
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:53pm@OKIE
The fact you don‘t believe in a god doesn’t mean you don’t believe in anything. It also doesn‘t mean you’re evil. Believing in something doesn’t make it true or right, it just makes it true or right TO YOU. There are plenty of good honest people around that just don’t happen to believe in a religion, just as there are plenty of good honest people around that do.
You can tell me I‘m going to burn in hell for all eternity because I don’t believe in your religion, but there is no basis for the claim that atheist=evil. There is also no basis for the claim that religious=good.
Report Post »Thats A rap
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 9:59pmWe are now entering a re-founding revolution. Our choice of weapon is the freedom of us speakin. We choose to fight in the arena OF THOUGHT and our founders had superior. But now in OUR house they all snub the constitution. Did they swear to us to GOD or some sort of alien. If to GOD what a shame but one day they‘ll meet with him and if to us then they’re LIARS and it’s time for us to replace all them. OUR CONSTITUTION our BILL OF RIGHTS and no interpretation that‘s how we’ll finish this re-founding revolution. So now it’s time for the 28th amendment “No authority can tax a SOVERIGN STATE CITIZEN” It’s also time for OUR state representatives to come back home and start representing them. After that we’ll be headed towards a different place, a place OUR founders intended for the human race. So much HOPE so much CHANGE and new innovation. WE pray to GOD for this re-founding revolution. Hey U.N. we’re sorry for all the confusion, but those treaties that we signed are against OUR CONSTITUION. So what were saying is that it’s time for us to hit the road and that building in New York will be sub-divided into condos… So much HOPE so much CHANGE and new innovation WE pray to GOD for this re-founding REVOLUTION. Rise Up People!!!!!!
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 10:59pmRowgue
Either you do or do not. There is zero in between.
A) you believe in God, A God
B) you do not believe in God, no God
Pick A or B but to say I’m atheist and believe in something is total contradiction to being Atheist.
If you have morals you believe in, that would be your God. Just as some worshipped the Sun, symbols, animals, liberty, etc. Those are all Gods/Idols…So to be Atheists means to ABSOLUTELY believe in nothing, no God.
Like it or not, the lack of God does equal Evil just as dark would not exist without the absence of light. Not believing in God is evil as your worshipping everything but the one true God. This is truth…To thy own self be true….
I can‘t promise you will or won’t go to heaven/hell…I do promise you will bow before the one true God before you get to one or the other….May God show you his light….
Report Post »blueonfriday
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:29pmLarry, Ole boy, here’s the scoop: God does know when the end of the world is and isn’t. You don’t know anything. If, and I mean if, you had ever read the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, you would not dare to say that it is a fictional writing. There is a curse on those who add to or take away from it’s record. If, and I say IF, we repent of anything God will forgive it. But you opened your mouth and said that you are not knowledgeable of any of the Scriptures. So tell me why I would want to listen to a uneducated messenger? You may be educated in somethings, but you are no student of the Bible. So until you have learned what’s in the Bible, maybe you should leave the subject alone.
Report Post »Rowgue
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:32pm@OKIE
What the hell was that rambling mess of logic you just spewed? Stop trying to draw comparisons between scientific facts and belief systems. Faith is the belief in something despite the fact that there is no actual real evidence of it’s existance.
If you truly belive the fact that I don’t believe in your religion makes me evil, then I’ll just write you off as the mouthbreathing moron that you are.
Report Post »dr_funk
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:38pmI actually feel kinda sorry for him…
Report Post »jackrorabbit
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:46pmGuess I am one of the unintelligent that believes in the Bible, word for word. How does that work, when I have an I.Q. of 142?
Report Post »HUGGINGMYBABIES
Posted on March 18, 2011 at 11:55pmThe last verbal sounds heard before the flushing of the toilet……..
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:06amABC is an ignorant jerk, a total fool and a mushy-minded ignoramus.
Report Post »*************************
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:43amLOL! Must be a lot of woodwork at MSNBC … because they crawl.
“Mongo like candy.” -Mongo, Blazing Saddles
Report Post »home_of_the_brave
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:01am@ ABC
So here’s what the atheist believes….
In the beginning there was nothing, and absolutely nothing was happening to absolutely nothing. And then one random day, absolutely nothing exploded. And absolutely nothing became absolutely everything. And then the nothing that became everything for no reason at all, began to rearrange itself into self replicating, intricately complex life forms. That eventually, for no reason at all, became intelligent beings, that began in their highly evolved state to believe in God.
Yep, that makes sense, (sarcasm intended).
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:08amABC is a coward that lets his buddy stand up for his freedom. He’s a leech that abuses his freedom of speech, without lifting a finger to defend his country or his countrymen. What a coward.
Report Post »sciraven
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 7:03amThe term “end of the world” better interpreted as the“ end of this earth age” Read IIPeter Chapter 3 vs. 3 through 13 There was a 1st earth age. We are in the 2nd. The 3rd is coming.
Report Post »thetreyman
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 9:20amwho is lawrence oconnell?
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 9:50amRowgue
I sense a little frustration on your part. I apologize if this is upsetting you but I’m obligated to be honest. I’ll try and make it easier for you to understand and accept. To be blunt, God exists.
Definition of Atheist=There is zero God, nonexistent. Right? Haven’t lost you yet have I?
Good vs evil: Good, meaning doing what your master set forth, like your dad, mom, school, GOD….. Evil, doing what your master instructed not to do, absence of good, wicked. In order to have good/evil you must have authority/judge, right? Still with me?
If you have zero God (Atheist), you have zero master/judge equaling zero GOOD resulting in the lack of good otherwise known as evil. So Rowgue, if you lack God (Atheist), you lack Good, your evil.
You can be perfect in morals and principles but not acknowledging and submitting to God will result in you being evil for you lack God.
Atheists believe in nothing. Atheists have nothing to talk about. Atheist’s think like rocks, about nothing.
Believe how you please of me and God. You will bow before God whether you believe his existence now or not.
Report Post »sbish
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:04pmThis may be the first time I have ever agreed with a string of thoughts/commentary which came from O‘Donnell’s mouth (while simultaneously still recognizing O’Donnell sure likes to listen to himself talk, still). On Beck, while I love this guy, I can‘t disagree with O’Donnell’s point. Not only is it not a sign of the end of the world, but rather while in legal terms, what has happened in Japan is an “act of God”, does anybody really believe what happened in Japan had anything to do with God, or that God was in any way responsible for what happened. I know the answer to that question is, “Yes”, of course, people actually do believe God would do that. But why?? As O’Donnell said, why would God kill (murder) thousands of his children in these tsunamis, earthquakes, volcano eruptions, hurricanes etc…? If God loves us all unconditionally, why would he kill some of us, periodically, for sins we have racked-up over the years? Would your parents who love you unconditionally kill you for not living by the word of God? Of course not! Is God more petulent and ill-tempered than our parents? I doubt it. Last year Glenn spent a lot of time talking about the Black Liberation Theology movement, and specifically about collective salvation. He preached over and over that really Christians do not seek salvation collectively, but rather individually. If that is true, does it make sense that God would punish people with all of these natural disasters collectively, while simultaneously requiring a personal, individual relationship with Christ in order to gain salvation and entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven? This collective killing does not seem in keeping with individual relationships with God.
Report Post »sbish
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:32pmOkie
I am afraid it is you who has the misunderstanding. You are incredibly presumptuous to think you, or anybody else, can understand God. While you seem perfectly comfortable to guarantee that atheist will kneel before God sooner or later, I feel equally comfortable to guarantee to you that you do not understand God’s thoughts and actions or his motives for our creation and existence. You have no idea about these things, and to preach to somebody else that you do, or that you understand God’s plan as regarding to atheist or anything else, is evidence that you don’t know God as well as you think you do.
Being an atheist is not belief in nothing, it is not believing in God. There are concepts, theories, belief systems, facts and ideas which exist outside of God. God is not EVERYTHING, and not to believe in God is not NOTHING.
Report Post »Bluebonnet
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 12:52pmO’Donnell, I’m sorry I called you and idiot, you’re really a moron.
Report Post »JohnLocke
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 1:05pmScience without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.
Report Post »-Albert Einstein
Okie from Muskogee
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 2:33pm@SBISH
It seems you are assuming an awful lot of God in your first post. All the questions you asked, there are answers, if only you listen and took time to hear them instead of assuming YOU have it all figured out on your own.
I simply state truth, God exists and being an Atheist is believing in nothing. God wants to be understood, just as a parent wants to be understood. Does a child understand everything of a parent, no, but enough to understand what is asked. God is Alpha and Omega, God is everything and to think not is well, wrong, ignorant, and shameful.
God created you for a purpose SBISH….To worship God, love God, and to share God in everything…..
If I‘m a dumb Okie please share what Atheist’s believe in.
Report Post »sbish
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 4:06pmOkie,
I wrote a thoughtful post regarding your last post, which was up for about 5 minutes and then stricken from the site, as far as I can tell.
It was quite long and I don’t have the time or energy to redo it, but I will say that I would love to hear the answers to the questions about God. I am a curious mind and I am open to new ideas.
Also, I am agnostic, not atheist. To me, I believe in family, friends, rule of law and the Golden Rule.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 5:28pm@SBISH
I am sorry I missed your long enlightening post. I do not like the fact the Blaze takes any posts down.
Agnostic-someone who claims they can not have true existence of God but doesn’t deny his existence.
Is being Agnostic like being lukewarm?
Can‘t deny him but can’t proclaim him either…right?
SBISH wrote:
Also, I am agnostic, not atheist. To me, I believe in family, friends, rule of law and the Golden Rule.
You believe you should have family..
You believe you should have friends.
You believe in law/order.
You believe in doing unto others as you wish to be done.
Why do you believe in these things? And who is the authority over whether you do/do not do these and/or correctly?
I will try and answer the questions you had above of God… I encourage you SBISH to push yourself farther and seek truth for once you do God’s existence will be undeniable.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 7:19pm@SBISH
Authority must be given form something to something. You can not just create something into existence. You do not have that ability do you, to just create something and give to yourself in which you did not have to start with?
This moral code you talk of, where did it come from? Whom determines right/wrong? What are it’s roots? I believe this goes back to your authority issue…..Does it take an authority to create order? Without an authority, one, what does one have?
If you read what you wrote you believe in serving one’s self, right? You have a family to enrich YOUR life. You have friends to enrich YOUR life. YOU have authority. God tells us to live for others, not yourself.
SBISH I appreciate the dialogue. God does exist. You opening your eyes each morning should be proof enough for you.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 7:30pm@SBISH
Don’t feel bad this post was taken down for some reason. I’m re posting.
To answer your questions of our God, I pray God‘s spirit opens your eyes to see and your ears to hear as curiosity is nothing more then knowing something and looking for it’s confirmation. I also pray for wisdom and clear thought. God is good.
No, God did not cause this Earthquake as a punishment. He did not say “ok today I’m gonna rock Japan just because”. God may have allowed events for an earthquake to happen but in no way is this a punishment from God upon Japan. I personally do not think Glenn did a good job in articulating his thought on this. As he says himself, he is no end time prophet nor an expert on this topic.
God has given man knowledge of the power of Earthquakes and the devastation of an tsunami. Yet man still chooses to build on Earthquake faults and live extremely close to the oceans. Again, man has the knowledge these things will occur and chooses still to live in those areas. I’m unsure how ones blames God for mans stubbornness. I believe this was the point Glenn may have been trying to make.
Collective salvation is a false teaching of ignorance. We each have an opportunity to search for God, understand him, and receive salvation in his accordance. In each of our personal life each day God shows himself and his existence. Unfortunately a lot chose to not see him, his existence and his blessings. Each day your eyes open you have a choice to worship God or to not worship God. You are responsible for your choice, not God. God does command you share your light with others and I believe that is where some get lost.
Revelations is a true book of God. Yes in Revelations God allows evil to run rampart on Earth. So much so that God seals his people and allows the Earth to cleanse the wickedness. That would be the flesh judgement. All will stand before the thrown of God for spiritual judgement. God does warn each of us of this thru this book.
Before digging into why God does something or whether collective exists or not I would encourage finding truth of God’s existence first. Once you see that truth more light will be visible.
SBISH I mean no ill to you. I appreciate the dialogue and if I can assist you in your search of God or questions I’m willing to try and answer.
Report Post »TOTHEDEATHIWILLSTAND
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 7:49pmI KNOW ! I KNOW!! I KNOW!!! Sounds like Tom Cruise and Harold Camping!
Report Post »sbish
Posted on March 19, 2011 at 9:35pmOkie,
I appreciate your thoughtful consideration of my questions. Perhaps one day I shall believe as you do.
Report Post »The Watchman
Posted on March 20, 2011 at 4:01pmO’Donnell can ignore the existence of our Christian God but the fact is, in the end, he will dearly and for all eternity pay for his transgressions (and willful stupidity). O’Donnell, as many “unbelievers,” fail to understand that it is faith-based not fact-based (although I see facts that the Almighty exists every day.
Report Post »seon
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 2:16amWhat’s even sadder is people worship the barbaric God of the Old Testament. What is even sadder is people actually believe the insane events of the book of revelation will happen. It’s sad that a grown man would believe those myths.
Report Post »Hamster-3
Posted on March 22, 2011 at 12:45pmI could not listen or want to listen to Lawrence O’Donnell. This guy is full of garbage, ican see it in his eyes. I won’t ever watch MSNBC again or endorse it
Report Post »He knows exactly what he is doing. He does not want people to believe in God or the book of Revelation. What does that tell you? Who is his master? It is not sad – not in this day and age of knowledge. He knows exactly what he is saying and anyone who continues to watch him, will go down with him. I do NOT feel sorry or sad for him. He has made his choice. I have made mine. God will hold him accountable to his own words.