‘We Exist, We’re Here, We‘re Normal’: So Say Atheists in Actual Foxholes
- Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:11am by
Emily Esfahani Smith
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RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) — The cliche notwithstanding, there are atheists in foxholes. In fact, atheists, agnostics, humanists and other assorted skeptics from the Army’s Fort Bragg have formed an organization in a pioneering effort to win recognition and ensure fair treatment for nonbelievers in the overwhelmingly Christian U.S. military.
“We exist, we’re here, we’re normal,” said Sgt. Justin Griffith, chief organizer of Military Atheists and Secular Humanists, or MASH. “We’re also in foxholes. That’s a big one, right there.”
For now, the group meets regularly in homes and bars outside of Fort Bragg, one of the biggest military bases in the country. But it is going through the long bureaucratic process to win official recognition from the Army as a distinct “faith” group.
That would enable it to meet on base, advertise its gatherings and, members say, serve more effectively as a haven for like-minded soldiers.
“People look at you differently if you say you’re an atheist in the Army,” said Lt. Samantha Nicoll, a West Point graduate who in January attended her first meeting of MASH. “That’s extremely taboo. I get a lot of questions if I let it slip in conversation.”
The decision on recognition goes first to an Army agency called the Installation Management Command and may be reviewed after that by the Army Chaplain Corps. Neither agency returned calls for comment. MASH members said chaplains at Fort Bragg have been supportive of their effort.
Similar groups of non-theists at about 20 U.S. military bases around the world are watching the outcome at Fort Bragg in hopes it will lead to their recognition, too, said Jason Torpy, president of the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers.
MASH, whose name conjures the 1970s movie and sitcom about an Army field hospital in the Korean War, formed in January, partly in reaction to a concert called Rock the Fort that was sponsored by an evangelical Christian organization and held on base last fall. Griffith, an atheist when he joined the Army 4 1/2 years ago, said he tried to organize an atheist festival but called it off because higher-ups were not providing the same support they had for the Christian event – a claim Fort Bragg officials deny.
Griffith said MASH has about 65 members among more than 57,000 active service members who live on and off the post. Bragg is the home of the 82nd Airborne Division and headquarters of the Army’s Green Berets.
Fort Bragg Garrison Commander Col. Stephen Sicinski disputed Griffith’s account of how the atheist concert came to be canceled but said the post is doing what it can to help Griffith win recognition for MASH. “He knows the procedures, he knows what the paper trail needs to look like, and we’re guiding him along in the process to see where that goes,” Sicinski said.
Meetings of military personnel who are non-theists – an umbrella term for the many varieties of nonbelievers – have been held at MacDill Air Force Base in Florida and aboard the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln. But groups of any kind are prohibited from meeting on Army bases without official recognition.
If the Fort Bragg group succeeds, it will be overseen by the Chaplain Corps. That might seem contradictory for a group defined by its lack of belief, but it means MASH’s literature would be available along with Bibles and Qurans. It could raise funds on base and, its members say, they could feel more comfortable approaching chaplains for help with personal problems. Recognition would also be an official sign that not believing in God is acceptable, something members say is lacking now.
“They call it `coming out of the atheist closet,’” Griffith said. “There are people who won’t say anything to anyone outside of their own close-knit group. They don’t want Grandma to find out, or whoever. People feel like they have to lie about it.”
Griffith said he doesn’t know of any soldiers being denied promotions because of their atheism, and he and other MASH members at Fort Bragg said they have no horror stories about outright discrimination, that the reaction from their comrades has amounted to little more than raised eyebrows and lots of questions.
Instead, they said, they are largely motivated by a sense of isolation and a desire to spend time with people who not only understand the military experience but also share their views on religion.
It is difficult to pin down how many nonbelievers are in the military, in part because some soldiers lose their faith or convert to a different one. But a report last June by the Pentagon’s Military Leadership Diversity Commission concluded that about 20 to 25 percent of military personnel have no religious preference. Up to 3.6 percent identify themselves as humanist – a catchall that can refer to a nonreligious ethical philosophy.
Surveys of the general population generally find the “no preference” category at between 10 and 15 percent, a figure that has grown steadily over the past 20 years, making the military numbers less surprising, said Phil Zuckerman, a sociology professor at Pitzer College in Claremont, Calif.
“People are increasingly much more likely to identify themselves with no particular religion, although that doesn‘t mean they’re atheists. About half the nonreligious are still believers,” Zuckerman said.
The Pentagon is studying religious diversity in part to make sure tensions in society at large don’t become problems in the military.
The MASH group meets at restaurants and homes, discussing books or having dinner together. About 15 people attend regularly, but Griffith said he has received inquiries from roughly 100 soldiers at Fort Bragg, along with dozens from other bases.
“Granted, most soldiers are Christian, but I’d like to see some secular kind of spiritual and emotional support,” said Sgt. Adam Jennings, a Special Forces medic who has been in the Army for 11 years and served in combat in Afghanistan. “I want a place where I can go and be part of a close-knit community.”
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Comments (284)
Bruce01
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:51amDo you have enough faith to be an atheist? If you do… your statement is their is no creator.. have you ever considered how intricate the human body is all the way down to DNA and the inner workings of a cell and the chemistry that takes place in the body. If that is the case, have you ever considered the statistical likelyhood of all the functions of the human body taking place at one time. It is almost impossible to place a number on these events. In Summary.. There is a God.. and he is right by the non-believers side just waiting for the opportunity to be accepted into their hearts. To all believiers… I guess it is time to go have a meal with another “tax collector”! Blessings to all.
Report Post »Non-sequitur
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 12:26pm“In Summary.. There is a God.”
In Summary, this is jumping to conclusions.
Report Post »Bruce01
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 1:10pmIn summary, Christ was crucified , died, and on the 3 day he was risen from the dead to save all of us from our sins. Game, set, match,
Report Post »Dick Blitskreig
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 2:27pmGay.
Report Post »libertarianhomo
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 4:35pmNo one was ever claiming it happened all at once. It happened one piece at a time over millions of years.
Report Post »ShyMan
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:51amThe Atheist Mantra
“There is no god, and I hate Him.”
Report Post »jordy2010
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:49amIt never ceases to amaze me how some atheists will spend money, time and energy fighting something they claim doesn’t exist in the first place…….
Report Post »jacobstroubles
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:56amI know, it’s knee slapping funny. what a bunch of dopes.
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:45amSeems like all the atheists try to do is evangelize atheism. They form groups, enlist people for meetings with the goal to produce and ever widening group of people. If you don’t like Christians trying to tell you about God, trying to help save YOUR soul, at least in their eyes, because it somehow offends you, why do you atheists try to do the same thing to try and convince the ignorant and weak that there is no God?
Report Post »flyoverbob
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:25amMy comment was removed,guess I hurt some C>A’s feelings.OK,hows this Im sorry sweetie that your not being appreceiated,please go tell your mommy ,she will pat you on the back and kiss you on the forehead.Im a Vietnam vet I never cared about your religion or non.Just do your job.
Report Post »teapartychristiannc
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:18am@battleaxe its our job as christian to spread the word of the Lord..its your choice weather or not to listen
Report Post »teachermitch32
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 10:06amYou are right! It was one of the last admonishments Christ gave us before going to prepare a place. It is often refered to as “The great commission”. Most people don‘t know this because they don’t read God’s Word for themselves, and/ or they don’t hear it from the pulpit. Also, most Christians do not do it well, again, mostly because they don’t know their Word. They are inaffective in their efforts and often come off in an obnoxious way. Not helpful at all. Any time we share our faith it should be “lead” by the Spirit of God and not from the flesh. Also, one must remember, it is not our words that convince, convict, save or persuade. It is the Spirit of the living God….so prayer is, more often than not, what we should be doing.
Report Post »GulfPeg
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 10:34amIt’s whether, not weather. Weather is when it rains, snows, etc.
Report Post »Greg8812
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:14amCan they shoot straight, follow orders and do they love America?? Thats all that matters to me
Report Post »MrKnowItAll
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:10amCatholic School Boy here. Alter boy for 12 years here. I worked for a crooked television evangelist for five years. I ran the churches print shop and knew nothing of the illegal dealings going on using the church until the F.B.I. came and questioned me one day. Seeing with my own eyes nothing but wrong doings in any religious dealings my entire life. I began to wonder myself if God was made up by a bunch of tribe leaders who figured they had to make something up to install fear in people. I thought they knew they could not control or put fear in everyone. And I figured they knew at least they could control some and keep some type of balance. Now I can tell you God and Jesus are real. The things that happened to me could never have happened if there was no God. Take my word. Or don’t. I believe in no Church or religion. Just Good and looking for people myself who I know need help and giving it to them. Instead of entrusting my offerings to someone else. Like Crooked Priests and Preacher’s.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:24amDon’t believe in man believe in God, but you’ll have to have a preacher to find faith. So, find a ” man of God.”
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:30amGod is Real. satan is real. My own witness.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:34amGod’s Word does not change because someone tries to change It, or does not abide by It.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:38amRemember. You have to forgive them, also.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:40amPriests and Preacher’s are men and therefore flawed. God is perfect. Put your faith in God, not men. Men will disappoint you, God won’t.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:41amWhich, will take you back to my first statement.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:52amSorry Searching but, I don’t agree that you have to ”find a preacher to find faith”. You only need to find Christ.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:12amOne more statement. God disciplines us all the way through our lives, once we except Him as ruler over our lives. This discipline I gladly except, when I know it takes me toward Salvation. Things will happen that one will think are good, and things will happen that one will think are bad.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:29am” Find a man of God.” Faith: ” …So then faith cometh by hearing…” – Roman: 10: 17 King James.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:38amBottom line. Go somewhere, but stay in church.
Report Post »teachermitch32
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:55amSearching for the Truth,
I hear the things you are saying…or should I say, I read the things you are writing…but don’t agree on the “need a preacher” or your definition of “faith comes by hearing”. The rest of the scripture goes: “And hearing, by the Word of God”. Your faith, if only by hearing your preacher, even if he/ she are holding to the Word is fine, but you must, MUST, compare what you hear from them with the Word of God. The word “hear” here means “the Word”. Please read it again. Many folks posting here claim to have left organized religion along time ago but still have their faith. I’m okay with that….for them….as long as they continue in devouring the Word of God in some fashion. ost of them sound healthy to me and I wouldn’t mind knowing them and fellowshipping with them. I’ll bet we have alot in common.
We are admonished to “not forsake our gathering together” or “fellowship with one another”. There is value in corporate worship of God. I don’t discount that at all. But, it can come in the form of a simple bible study at a coffee shop with fellow believers, or study of God’s Word with your family, or a simple disciplship with a friend. You do not need to “go to church”, although, for most, that would be a good idea.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 10:45amOnly, the Lord knows our heart. I’m not perfect; therefore, I have to attend church services.
Report Post »tomasreal
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:09amYou don’t need a religion to believe in God and you don’t need God to have a religion. It’s been my experience that God and religion mix like oil and water and religions without God far out number those that claim a God.
Report Post »dizzyinthedark
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:31amExactly! That is why I chose to exit the organized religions 30+ years ago. I decided to seek on my own the ‘knock’ that was at my door and I have never left. I’m not knocking (no pun intended) organized religion, but due to my circumstances and choices of lifestyle, churches did not exist on the ocean. We came to an understanding and belief in a living God through faith and faith alone. Lots of prayer too. Haven’t left yet and never will. STanding firm!
Report Post »Whostolemypig
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 10:35am“I have lived on the lip
Report Post »of insanity, wanting to know reasons,
knocking on a door. It opens.
I’ve been knocking from the inside.”
— Rumi
Taxpayer550
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:57amOnce the U.S. military starts recognizing atheists as a valid faith group, it will start declining faster and faster until it destroys itself.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:27amNext thing you know they’ll allow gays in. Oh wait, that already happened.
Report Post »John 3:16
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:48amGod gave them a free will. The only problem I have is the only goal of many athiests is to prevent free worship of the creator because He offends them. They always start so quietly and politly, then wham no crosses no Christmas no Easter. They, like other evil forces, always want to change and neuter Christianity because they feel guilty or are just filled with hate. Athiests have a god we all call Saten.
Report Post »curtmavi38
Posted on April 4, 2011 at 6:02pmThe reason they fight Christians is they know that God is and always will be. They have let satan sell them a bill of goods. Jesus has already gotten victory over satan and it is a matter of time and satan will be thrown into the lake of fire along with his followers. Don’t let satan take away your chance for eternal life, repent of your sins and ask Jesus to save you,you will be eternallly grateful that you did. Hope to meet you in Heaven with Jesus.meh
Report Post »redneck hickabilly
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:43ama religion is a set of beliefs
Report Post »secularism humanism athiestism are all religions-
remember this christianity has killed maybe 400 thousand in its two thousand years of history
athiestism secularism has killed a billion plus in the last hundred
infantcide democide ect ect
ofallon
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:42amThese people have the right to assemble just as much as any other “faith” group.
“But it is going through the long bureaucratic process to win official recognition from the Army as a distinct ”faith” group.
Are you listening ACLU? Atheism and humanism are religions. Are you going to go after them too?
Report Post »redneck hickabilly
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:44amthey both were always religions read their founders……
Report Post »so is secularism is also a religion
Gonzo
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:41amI don’t believe in the Easter Bunny but, I don’t feel a need to form a group of other non-bunny believers. Why not just join a bowling team?
Report Post »warrior21
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:38amI agree. Can’t see what their problem is. I was a “No Preference”, which was stamped on my dog tags for 26 years. The SF Medic said “I want a place where I can go and be part of a close-knit community.” During my time we never had a problem going to, and be coming a part of a close-knit community. Of course, we were a different kind of soldier.
Report Post »ExpertShot
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:17amExactly Warrior….being an Army wife & daughter of a Marine, it baffles my mind how “soft” the military is today….in basic training, they have “stress cards” for the joes to hold up if they’re feeling too stressed…once they hold up the card, the drill sgt. has to leave them alone for a certain amount of time. As far as the guy who said he was trying to organize an “atheist” concert on post…hell, they have all sorts of non-religious concerts on Ft. Stewart…in fact, RARELY is there a concert advertised as being religious & if it is, it’s a gospel concert put on at the chapel. I don’t care if someone is a believer or not, that’s not my business….this sounds like a group of whiners who have nothing better to do than create drama where there is none.
Report Post »WVBeagleMom
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:37amAtheists just had their national holiday yesterday, April 1.
Report Post »mutslie
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:35amh’mmmmm…..THE RICH INVENTED RELIGION ‘TO CONFUSE THE POOR (maybe?)
‘worth a thought though’…………
Report Post »teachermitch32
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:25amI don’t have a religion. I have a relationship with God through Jesus my lawyer. And I happen to share it with alot of poor and rich people.
Report Post »Lucy Larue
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 10:00amMUTSLIE,
Actually…., No. It isn’t worth a thought. That is why I am rather annoyed that you made me GIVE it a thought!
Report Post »This group that wants to be recognized as a FAITH group because of it‘s NONFAITH isn’t really worth a thought either. I am annoyed at them too.
It’s just another example of Progressive unintended consequences. President Clinton decimated our military then we had to start beefing it up again. That’s when all the “touchy feely” started.
It’s going to get worse with the repeal of “Don’t Ask. Don’t Tell”. And NOT because Gays will be openly serving. It’s because once again…,progressive policies have placed us on the “slippery slope” that encourages other inane groups like the one in this story to start their own little special group to make demands.
It weakens our Military.
I imagine it won’t be long before the Army will be forced to appoint a Nonfaith Nonchaplain to meet with the Nontheists to say a Nonprayer before entering the battlefield.
ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 10:04pmTeacher think you could ask god to feed those starving kids the world over? Or is he too busy helping you?
Report Post »dizzyinthedark
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:35amThis has been quoted here before: “Faith is the belief in a ideal greater than ourselves; Atheism is the denial of all beliefs.”
So why do these non-believers need to be recognized? I’m not following their rational. They claim people are feeling guilty about suppressing their belief or rather non-belief of God. Well, read the above quotes one more time. Atheists don’t believe in anything–period! They shouldn‘t be feeling guilty if they truly don’t believe. If they are feeling guilty then perhaps they need to re-think their feelings. Perhaps this ‘guilt’ or nagging inside them is something they need to pay attention to. Perhaps it is telling them they are making the wrong choice and they need to choose again. Choose to believe–that is.
A wrestless mind/soul is one that has made a wrong choice is all. One needs to just stop, rethink, choose again. Hopefully you pray upon your choice for guidance. A mind/soul that walks closely with the Lord is a peaceful one. Not one that feels left out, needing attention, a special place to organize or runs around screaming WIGWAM (what do I get, what about me)!
Report Post »Roxtar1968
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:30amJust out of curiosity, if you don’t believe in God, what exactly does an atheist group talk about at their meetings. My guess is how stupid believers are and their disdain for them! So in a sense, wouldn’t that group become a hate group? I don’t know. Just seems like a waste of time and energy to bring atheism to the forefront and legitimize not believing in anything.
Report Post »Nobamazone
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:30amjust goes to show you, atheism is a religion too, I personally hope they win because that means that they could then be spewing their religious rhetoric all over and MUST be stopped. After all, I as a Christian, don’t want them trying to force their atheist religion down my throat by removing all traces of my religion from public life. Oh my, now what do we do? Quick, call the PC police to settle this matter!
Report Post »TheBattleAxe
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:48amBut it’s okay for Christians to push their beliefs onto other groups, be they atheists, Muslim, etc.? Another hypocritical Regressive who doesn’t follow the Constitution.
Report Post »teapartychristiannc
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:13am@battleaxe we’re not pushin our beliefs on other people we as christian have a job to spread the good word of the Lord..its your choice weather or not to listen
Report Post »Nobamazone
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 10:30ambattleaxe
Report Post »I have never forced my beliefs on anyone, I have shared them many times, but I am quite intelligent enough to know that forcing someone does not a conversion make. Apparently you missed the part where I said I hope they do get their way, you see I believe they DO have a right, and you have a right NOT to believe, I too have a right and I believe you are wrong. I pray that you realize this before it is too late. I don’t have a problem admitting that my faith colors how I view things, atheists seem to have a problem understanding that is true about them as well, they have faith that they are right because just as there is not proof that there is a God (and lets face it, only God himself showing up can actually prove it to those who’s faith wont allow them to believe otherwise, you know, like you) there is also no proof that He does not exist. And to be fair, the only evidence that I as a believer will accept as proof that He does not exist would be if I die and nothing more happens, then I guess it does not matter what I believed now does it. However, if you are wrong, that is a different story all together. Either way, I hope they do get their right to be a recognized group, but you must consider the ramifications, their group cannot impose their believes on others, like demanding anything related to Christianity be removed from anything, anywhere, because as a recognized religious group, that would be imposing on other religions. We all know that is a no no, you atheists have been screaming it forever.
Non-sequitur
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 12:25pm“we’re not pushin our beliefs on other people.”
“we as christian have a job to spread the good word of the Lord.”
How are those two things in any way different?
Report Post »Nobamazone
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 1:16pm@non
Report Post »the difference is this….Talking to someone about thoughts and beliefs happens all the time, with most conversations, in any language, any country, anywhere, no matter what (if any) religion the people talking are of, it is called communication. As a Christian my conversations include thoughts and feelings and beliefs that I have because of who am, As several have mentioned on here, being a Christian is about a relationship with God, it shapes the way I think and feel, it is what makes me and it shows in how I interact with others. You don’t have to like what others say, about anything, including faith. You don‘t even have to participate in a conversation you don’t like, you can walk away. I for one have never grabbed someone and forced them to listen to me AND I have never once (and I bet most of the other Christians on here either) forced anyone to kneel before a public Christian display, holiday, cross marking a memorial, posting of the 10 commandments, etc. or forced anyone to agree with what they say or represent. And, I have never chopped off someones head (or even threatened too) because they believe something else (I would have to classify THAT as forcing religion, how bout you?). Atheists don’t want ANY reminders around and want to force Christians to not have any in public anywhere. They don’t want to just walk away from the conversation, or walk past the supposed offense to them, they just want them removed, again, forcing their religion on ME.
That is the difference.
mutslie
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:30amAdd your comments
Report Post »mutslie
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 10:27amI agree totally with MARKAMERICA, I served another country Australia, 1967-69′,. I’m not trying to get attention ! ‘best you know anothers view, ‘if there is a god I am looking forward to meeting HER’
Report Post »THNIK ………(think) & just vote in’ 2012
ps. ‘the Vatican the richest religion in the world,’same here(in U.S.) aye’, tax free perks, evangilsts makeing mega‘ bucks ’no one tells me what to think I am free in mind & spirit.
AmericanWarrior
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:29amThe joy of being an athiest in the military… where there is a better than average chance that you may die… when the lights go out, that is all there is… Man, now that is something to look forward to! How smart can these people be..??.. If I was an athiest, I’d lock myself in my house & never come out! If you are a fence rider, with respect to atheism, just remember: Hell is Hot!
Report Post »trog58
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:36amSomeday…Every knee shall bow…wether you believe now or not.
Report Post »RLTW
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:48amYouthful lazy thinkers, what thoughts go into believing in nothing? If you really want something to think about, work to find God.
Report Post »Thug sauce
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 6:55pmJust because you do not believe in god does not mean you should not live life to the fullest and fight for what you believe. In fact, it gives you more reason to do so. If you dont believe in Grandoise notions of heaven why would you lock yourself in your house? wouldn’t you want to experience the better things in life before you die?
Report Post »If you truly believe in Heaven and believe you are a good person then you have no reason to live, wouldn’t you rather be in heaven with God than on earth?
American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:04pmIf this is it, this life is all we have, why would I wasted it locked in my house.
You would think the argument is opposite. You Christians want so badly to go to heaven, lock yourself in your home with zero stimulation. Zero chances to sin and you can pray all day. Who care?! You’ll go to heaven and life eternity in bliss!
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:06pm@RLTW I actually have plenty to think about. I’ve actually been thinking about Ancient Alien theories. I think it’s more believable than the bible, IMHO.
Report Post »bringbacknixon
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:25amI think the whole world should be Christian. Then we will be finally able to stop worrying about all the Muslim radicals. I don’t really have a preference == Catholic is my last choice but I prefer Episcopalian. Now to attain this goal we may all have to kill out fair share of Muslims. Everyone has to join in. Exercise some second amendment rights out there.
Report Post »Locutus
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 10:16amyou are ignorant
Report Post »peaceandlove
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 11:04amfool
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:02pmWow. And you think you’re better than the evil Moooslims?
Report Post »ObamaSlapYoMama
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:21am“But I’d like to see some secular kind of spiritual and emotional support”. Oh PLEASE just shut it and do your damn job. What’s the problem? You don’t have an atheist chapel on base? What is it you want? A hug? Believe what you want to believe.
Report Post »cognitivedissonance
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:32amIt‘s quite remarkable how quickly you’ll turn against someone who is out there defending your freedom when you decide you don’t agree with their religious views.
Report Post »HappyStretchedThin
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 10:43amBarelyCognizantButClearlyDissonant,
Report Post »Obamaslap “turned against” no one. His post is clearly an affirmation of the person’s right to believe anything. Obamaslap supports the military and reveres them for their sacrifices. And can disagree with the few of these ridiculous atheists without “turning against” them. Your accusation is the one that’s meritless, and hypocritical, since you claim to want peaceful relations between conservatives and the military, but really you were obviously lying in wait to attack conservatives yourself.
LadyIzShy
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:20amummm if they have NO faith why would they need to be a faith group?
Report Post »ObamaSlapYoMama
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:22amFaith in not needing faith
Report Post »thermonator
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:29amYep, that’s exactly what I was wondering.
Report Post »Sheepdog911
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:33amIt the Freedom of Religion. Why would they be given Religious Rights for claiming that they don’t have religion. This is the ultimate oxyMORON. Oh, and wow … 65 out of 57,000 – I’m impressed. Your numbers in the military for athiests is probably one tenth the percentage of athiests in the general public. Doesn’t exactly speak well for their premise ot Athiests in the Foxhole. Sounds like combat scaes the Hell out of most of them.
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:37amAn atheist wanting recognition of their beliefs in no beliefs as a ‘faith’?
This is a true contradiction in terms if I have ever heard of one, or they are among the atheists who make such statements of:
“I’m telling the truth, swear to God.”
Report Post »brliantedj
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:42amWhat many fail to realize is that faith has nothing to do with religion.
Report Post »For example: religion was created by man, faith comes from within.
Just because you don’t worship Jesus, Budhha, Muhammed, Etc. doesn’t mean one has no faith.
Faith is just believing, weather fellow man or a space ship, we all have that right. Even if faith is to disbelieve.
Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 7:42amThere is kind of an irony for me personally with this article, my dad is entering the earliest stages of alzheimers, and some senility, if the doctor is correct; last night he was reliving a dream of his tour in Korea when his company squared off against the Chinese army. Hearing his side of conversations with friends and buddies lost that night, the pain in his voice and rage at the bugles cannot be put into justice with words.
He seldom talked about the time that night in Korea, save to my Grandpa, and always made the comment that there indeed are no Atheists in foxholes, just the god fearing, or the dead.
Report Post »NORTHBRO
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:04amInteresting how this comes out on National Athiest Day
Report Post »Psalm 14:1-3 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
teapartychristiannc
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:07amif they dont believe in anything y do they need to be recognized and have a group? what do they talk about how they sprouted out of the ground?!
Report Post »grandmaof5
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:15amWhy the need to form a group? If I am in combat in a fox hole, I only care that you know how to do your job, I don’t think I would inquire about your religious beliefs. Christians pray to God, you don’t; just be the best soldier you can be and that should be enough.
Report Post »brliantedj
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:27amI believe the people protecting us from enemies, foreign or domestic should be PAID a higher wage than the preachers, polititicians, educators or the rest. Why wouldn’t anyone agree? they put the most on the line.
Report Post »Isn’t that like Vegas odds or something, bigger bet bigger payout.
Highland
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 8:31amNo God for them? Their loss.
Report Post »thermonator
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:00amThe irony is that atheists claim logic over faith, yet here they are wanting support for their faith in their logic over faith……go figure.
Report Post »teachermitch32
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:18am“I don’t want gramma to find out, or whoever” …..too late. Gramma posted just above me (and I always love her posts).
Also, “but I’d like to see some secular kind of spiritual and emotional support,” said Sgt. Adam Jennings.
Okay! Riddle me this. How can one be spiritual without a spirit? And, if there is a spirit, from where did it come? Is it explained somehow by science? By evolution or some other random cause or chemical reaction? Could it be that they acknowledge something “not logical”? Secular vs. spiritual don’t mix anymore than oil and water. I am baffled.
Report Post »Liberty-lover
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:37am@LADYIZSHY
You ask why they need recognition as a faith group. The answer is in the article above. It is a catch 22 situation that the military rules have created. In order to meet as a group on the base they must be recognized. The non-believers see the irony and are dealing with it the best way they can.
Why do they want to meet as a group? Because being an atheist can be very difficult. See comments below such as the one by BRINGBACKNIXON who thinks that everyone in the world should be Christian, even going to the disgusting point of saying “Exercise some second amendment rights out there.” . See also the many posts here which ridicule the non-believers, call them fools and even threaten with the promise of Hell. Many Christians take pride in their tolerance of sinners yet almost no-one has called out these intolerant hate mongers on this very thread.
Ignorance of what it means to be an atheist is typified by the recurring comment that “Atheism is the denial of all beliefs.” This is just not true in any sense of the terms. Atheists believe lots of things. Things for which they see good evidence.
Report Post »StonyBurk
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:38amand a normal use of common sense would suggest they refuse-or are incapable of putting to use the grey matter God gave all men–for evidence of a creator is seen daily and even the rocks would cry out if My Lord Jesus that Rabbi from Nazareth commanded me to be silent.
Report Post »markamerica
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:43am@TeacherMitch32
Spirituality isn’t merely based on faith. That’s one approach to spirituality. See, this is where I often run afoul of my fellow conservatives. When a discussion of morality arises, conservatives frequently make the same mistake as lefties do: That religion constitutes all morality, or that morality is necessarily religiously guided or faith-based. This is NOT the case.
I hold a high moral standard. That moral standard is inflexible. It makes no allowances for failures of choice in light of knowledge. I do not seek forgiveness. I simply do not knowingly do the things for which I might want forgiveness.
But in the same way that people associate ALL morality with religion, they likewise associate ALL spirituality with religion. This is a false doctrine. One can engage in secular spirituality. It all depends upon how one defines ‘the spirit’ or ‘the soul.‘ I don’t believe, for instance, that the ‘soul’ is an implant put there by God or gods. I believe my ‘soul’ is merely the expression of my conscience and my consciousness. It is what informs and shapes my character. It is my mind, as distinct from my brain. The brain is a physical entity. The ‘mind’ is a good deal more difficult to define. It is composed of our rational faculty, our memories, our consciousness, our conscience, and so on. Well, for me, that ‘mind’ is my soul. That’s what makes me ME.
Some of you are so narrow in your thinking that you cannot admit that a person might not hold a belief in God or gods while still seeking to preserve the liberty of his/her nation. That’s sad. I was an atheist in a foxhole, too, during my years of honorable service in the Army, and my atheism never once precluded me from doing my job.
Mark
Report Post »AzDebi
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:45am@Snowleopard:
Report Post »“An atheist wanting recognition of their beliefs in no beliefs as a ‘faith’?”
_______________________
Turns out the lights and lock the door…it’s time to go home, I’ve heard it all!!!
teachermitch32
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 10:53amMark,
You have still not offered any answers. I read your post carefully and considered each point. You appear to have only offered up more questions that defy the logic you wish to cling to. You have no source explainable for you offerings. In other words, your pronouncments have no root in logic, or science, or even deeper thinking. Only more questions.
It’s obvious that you and I will not quickly agree on much of anything. Perhaps a good review on your part of the many great apologists, current or past, might offer some insight. Maybe not. The conundrums you present cannot be answered with anything you present. Spirit vs. mind vs. soul vs. conglomerate of experience and senses vs. morality? I suppose you have never lied…stolen (even a pencil in the fifth grade or a cookie from the jar), lusted after another (body, possessions, talent), been angry to the point of wanting to cause harm? I don’t know where your baseline is. Who should set the baseline? It seems to move, in accordance with the secular world, all the time. Gotta have a source, a baseline, a value. It does not come naturally. Just ask the criminal (oops…there’s a baseline for ya). Rule of law perhaps? Okay then, who states where the rule of law starts? Why is it maliable? Is the Constitution the baseline? If so, is it a living document? Who decides what is right or wrong, in your mind (world) and when can those standards be moved or changed? What if YOU don’t like where the baseline has moved?
You pose alot of questions, but still no answers.
Report Post »restorehope
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 11:28amHope they enjoy their little groups of friendship now, because I feel sorry for them in the long run. They sure picked the wrong horse to win.
Report Post »Anti_Spock
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 11:38am@LADYIZSHY “ummm if they have NO faith why would they need to be a faith group?”
That is because it takes an equal amount of faith not to believe. Only silly christians think they have a patent on everything faith related.
Report Post »rossi_thomas
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 11:51ambrliantedj – Take your New Age Cult back to the Hippy Commune. We don’t need the Fuhrer Principle being shoved down our throats!
Report Post »TXPilot
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 12:25pmIt must be a really scary feeling, to believe that if that bullet with your name on it finds you, that you will die and become nothing.
Report Post »jds7171
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 1:25pmI can’t believe it has finally happened. Our military has been officially liberalized. It was good to be an U.S. Citizen while it was here. I wonder what country is going to conquer us now.
Report Post »jbl8199
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 2:26pmI don’t believe in Atheists, so I guess that means they don’t exist.
Report Post »bullcrapbuster
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 2:38pmYes to atheism as a religion. Then they would have to quit pushing it in public schools.
Report Post »avenger
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 4:00pmdude..whatever rocks your boat as long as you pull weight under fire…
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 4:12pmIt’s really very simple…..They want the protections and benefits that religion offers and the law, but obviously do not acknowledge religion in any way. In this way it is very similar to homosexual marriage. The definition as has been understood since the dawn of civilization has been marriage is between a man and a woman. Homosexuals want the benefits of laws regarding marriage, but do not want to be limited by the traditional definition of marriage. Therefore the war is on in both areas to redefine the terms and the rules. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »Sheepdog911
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 5:19pm@Mark,
Your logic of morality without God is what gave us those of PETA and Planned Parethood ilk. Oh, it’s immoral to kill any animal, or hey, we desrve federal funding because we conduct breast exams before we murder your unwanted baby. Sorry buddy, “morality” without God is no morality at all, it’s simply personal standards..
Report Post »Trance
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 5:38pmDon‘t you think it’s a little disingenuous to claim that athiests have no religeous beliefs? They believe there is no god.
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on April 2, 2011 at 9:00pmI served my country as US Army Soldier, infantry. 101st Airborne. I am an Agnostic.
At basic, every sunday, all the other religious groups got to go to a service. They would sometimes get juice or a snack afterwards. How is that fair for those of us with no faith? We get stuck staying back in the barracks to pull weapon guard or to clean the latrines. I eventually resorted to going to the Buddhist group just so I could escape extra duty and take a two hour break.
I’ve been through combat. Dodging death. Two deployments to Afghanistan. You know what? God was no where in my mind. It was in no ones mind. Why? BECAUSE WE WERE BUSY FIGHTING OFF THE BAD GUYS. Would I want my battle buddy huddled over praying to God or returning fire?
You know who was on my mind? My kids. My family.
We’re a country of liberty. That includes the freedom to not believe in a God. So we risk going to hell. What business is that of yours?
Report Post »ObliviouslyAware
Posted on April 3, 2011 at 12:22am["if they have NO faith why would they need to be a faith group?"]
Report Post »I am an atheist a faith is defined as any belief without proof…
Can you prove that god exists? I cant prove that it does‘nt but I have an unprovable belief that it does’nt exist… Thus a faith.
“Faith:…2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. ” – random online dictionary
Hey English speakers, your words would like to have a word with you.
Anti_Spock
Posted on April 3, 2011 at 12:33amTXPILOT… “It must be a really scary feeling, to believe that if that bullet with your name on it finds you, that you will die and become nothing.”
No it isn’t actually. Although I am agnostic, I don’t think most atheist feel that way. I could be wrong about that but not every atheist is a god-hater. I believe in a creator of life. But not in man made salvation. Yet I like christians, jews, muslims, atheist, (insert any decent person). It isn’t the religion that makes the man. If a man chooses to believe or not believe that doesn’t make them any less a man. What matters is a mans humanity toward others. History is replete with evil religions… even American christians have acted inhumanely in their treatment of blacks and native american indians (read: Bury my heart at wounded knee). Christianity and Islam both disregard native americans that lived here 10,000 years ago (proven facts most christians ignore.)
Report Post »Death isn’t scary to me. I believe that all life is manifested energy. Man has evolved into a being with self awareness that has led to religions as an explanation of our being. It’s a natural part of neurological evolution.
I truly think the world is headed for a nuclear war against radical muslims. Hopefully our survivors will evolve past any notion of religion in the wake of our destruction caused by “religion.”
As for what happens when we die? That is easily explained. Life is manifested energy. And energy cannot be created or destroyed. We call that energy our soul. So the physical body will die, but the energy will live on. Forever.
Enjoy your miniscule amount of time living in the flesh. Always stay true to your sacred humanity. And never think that for any life form death brings only blackness.
Anti_Spock
Posted on April 3, 2011 at 12:42amAMERICAN SOLDIER… “We’re a country of liberty. That includes the freedom to not believe in a God. So we risk going to hell. What business is that of yours?”
From one vet to another… thanks for your service. We are no more risking going to hell (by not conforming to religion) than a religious person who believes they are going to heaven.
Keep the faith of brotherhood. Keep your powder dry… and all the best to you and your family.
Report Post »Kafir
Posted on April 3, 2011 at 12:30pm@LTB says:
“Did God tell the Israelites to destroy groups of people in the OT? Yes, He did. Before He had those people slaughtered, though, He gave them hundreds of years to get their act together, but they persisted in doing evil (e.g., human sacrifice, infanticide, etc.). The world is a better place today, because, when the world was young, God eradicated a lot of evil people from the earth in order to give gentler people an opportunity to flourish.”
Soo…what you’re saying is…that all knowing, All loving god is predudice? Hmmmm…seem a bit contrary to what “Christians” profess. I thought he loved ALL of his children?
LTB Also said:
“If you truly do not believe in God, then shut up and stop trying to belittle those who do.”
Very hypocritical…Christians in general are very hypocritical…If I truly do not believe in god…then shut up and quit trying to convert or convince me that he is real or use that typical, age old scare tactic…damn me to hell for not believing.
ALL gods from ALL religions are nothing more than a mental and emotion crutch for the weak just justify their existance and to absolve them of any responsibilty for their successes and failures. It is always “gods will”…never the individuals fault when something goes wrong…or…when something goes right.
But, I generally do not “bash” anyone for “Believing”…if that is what you need to get through your day, it is just sad. And…for the record, I do believe…I believe in myself. I make my own decisions, I take responsibility for my failures and rejoice in my successes. I don’t need anyone or anything else to blame or thank.
Report Post »JRook
Posted on April 3, 2011 at 12:49pmOne need only look around the universe to realize there is some higher force or energy of some sort. You want to call it God, Allah, etc. fine. One need only look at most of our religious texts to know we have no clue what it is or how to explain it. The notion that Christianity hold superior insights into this force or energy because it is a refined product of our western civilization (Council of Nicea) demonstrates the highest form of arrogance. It is so far beyond us that to do more than just attempt to understand the mere amount of SCIENCE evidence is futile.
Report Post »Anti_Spock
Posted on April 3, 2011 at 12:53pmKAFIR,
It is best not to wrestle with superior-minded religious zealots. They will never bridge the mental gap with you since their mental bridge ends with “faith” and “gods will.”
Report Post »I do find it pathetic that their religious leaders point to natural disasters and blame wickedness for it. I guess they believe universal goodness will prevent earthquakes, floods, tectonic activity, and the earth will become completely static. hmmmmm…
Anyway please don’t be harsh with them, or insult the BILLIONS of people who believe, along with Billions who have died believing is some type of god. These beliefs are uniquely human, and the fact that some express them in varying degrees makes them no less human in intellectual capacity. Many smart men throughout history have believed in God and Jesus, and Allah, and the nearest totem pole god. An many did not believe. However none of them were intellectually superior as dictated by their chosen belief.
Treat them as you would want to be treated. That is the Golden Rule. And you don’t need to be religious to believe in that.
ilovethiscountry
Posted on April 3, 2011 at 2:21pmif they are at a base, they are not in foxholes.
Report Post »SaginawSammy
Posted on April 3, 2011 at 2:35pmActually I say let them have their way and become, what I believe atheism to be, a faith. The lack of believing in God takes more faith than believing. If they can be established as a faith group, then the government‘s support and push of atheism’s beliefs and the drive to remove all religion from everything will meet the requirements of “separation of church and state”. If havng no God is now a recognized faithed, then no God in government will be the government establishing a religion. So, let the atheists become a faith group.
Report Post »maryslittlelamb
Posted on April 3, 2011 at 2:44pmHad it been left up to atheists there wouldn’t be any America. Same is true of EVERY religion EXCEPT Christianity! That deserves respect. So sit down and shut up!
Report Post »jjack
Posted on April 4, 2011 at 7:46pm@TXPILOT How could one be scared of nothing.
Report Post »Gay Tea Partier
Posted on April 5, 2011 at 4:53am@American Soldier,
“At basic, every sunday, all the other religious groups got to go to a service. They would sometimes get juice or a snack afterwards. How is that fair for those of us with no faith? We get stuck staying back in the barracks to pull weapon guard or to clean the latrines. I eventually resorted to going to the Buddhist group just so I could escape extra duty and take a two hour break”
So basically you’re upset because no one gave you a cookie?
Because you on weapon guard, or had to clean a latrine?
I wish all the men made it home to whine over the trivial!
I notice you concluded your paragraph with: “I eventually resorted to going to the Buddhist group just so I could escape extra duty and take a two hour break”
AND THAT‘S THE REALITY YOU DIDN’T BELIEVE IN THE BUDDISM SERVICE YOU ABUSED IT AND NOW SEEK TO ABUSE THE MILITARY CODE BY CRYING OVER COOKIES AND MILK WHEN YOU COULD BE JUST AS WELL SERVED NOT BELIEVING AT THE BUDDIST SERVICES YOU’RE ATTENDING, OR MAYBE YOU PREFER THE CATHOLICS FOR THEIR “cookies?”
Report Post »jparenti
Posted on April 5, 2011 at 6:11amLet’s read the article, shall we?
Report Post »“…in a pioneering effort to win recognition and ensure fair treatment for nonbelievers in the overwhelmingly Christian U.S. military.”
“That would enable it to meet on base, advertise its gatherings and, members say, serve more effectively as a haven for like-minded soldiers.”
In other words, atheists have to declare themselves a religion in order to be correctly pigeonholed by a system that basically doesn’t offer a choice of “none” when it comes to faith. It’s all about semantics, obviously, not some kind of statement that the lack of a religion is somehow a religion, which is like saying an empty corner of your living room is a kind of furniture.