Faith
Westboro Baptist Church Tries to Ruin Christmas Too
- Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:21pm by
Meredith Jessup
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The hateful scorn of the Westboro Baptist Church is apparently not limited to memorial services for American service members or the late Elizabeth Edwards anymore.
Anti-homosexual propagandist Fred Phelps and his fatuous crew are spreading their own particular brand of holiday merriment by warning Americans that Christmas celebrations featuring Old Saint Nick will get you a ticket straight to Hell:
(h/t Dangerous Minds)
I assume “spirit fingers” were strictly prohibited from this production…?
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Comments (296)
salvawhoray
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:13pmthey may have been a man named jesus, but thats all he was just a man.
God on the other hand is
Report Post »man created.
trolltrainer
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:33pmYou are wrong on both counts! I hope one day you will ask yourself why so many people who otherwise are seemingly intelligent would believe what to you is utter foolishness. We all KNOW we are right. One day you will know it too, I just hope that day is before you leave this life because if you die from this world without knowing Christ you will suffer eternal damnation. Not a punishment mind you, you simply refused to accept what was freely offered to you. You thought it was silly.
I will pray right now that you may find the truth, but most will not. That is why we are here, it is ultimately up to each of us to seek Him. If you look and ask, He will come to you. Then you will know beyond doubt that it is real. Then your job will be to tell others what you found, so they too can find Him. There are no mysteries in life, only a world full of people who are too blind to see!
Report Post »gr8photoman
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:36pm@salvawhoray
Everyone believes in God…eventually.
Report Post »eteme
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 12:13amYou name is fitting…smoking the Salva does things to the brain not yet discovered, but you should not discount your services yet as you are not quite a whore, Ray…
Report Post »Nvrforget
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 5:07am“We all KNOW we are right. One day you will know it too”
Sorry, but this just comes off as terribly, terribly arrogant and self-righteous.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 10:53am“Sorry, but this just comes off as terribly, terribly arrogant and self-righteous.”
Yeah, I know…That is why Christians have a reputation of being close minded. It is too bad, but we do KNOW we are right. There is NO doubt. Christ LIVES in us. I cannot explain this to you any clearer. I am sorry if you feel there are many truths, many paths to the same place and all that. But it is simply untrue. It is a false belief. The Bible makes it clear there is only 1 way. If you do not believe the Bible then fine, you can argue whatever you like. But we also know the Bible is true. I cannot help it that I know these things as fact. I am certainly not going to entertain you by allowing you to think that there are other possibilities. But think about it like this; why would YOU want to believe in something that the believers themselves were uncertain of? I sure wouldn’t! As I said in another thread the other day, if I did not KNOW the Bible was the inerrant Word of God then I would be an atheist like MrButcher. Even if you could see there is a God how could you know what to believe about Him? You would have to make up your own stuff…You just invented religion! You would certainly never know if you were right or not. God did not force us into that position, He gave us His Word that makes perfectly clear what we are to believe. Once you believe you KNOW. Stray from His Word at your own peril.
Report Post »Takeoutthegarbagenov2
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:09pmThis is what happens when cousins marry cousins and dads impregnate their own daughters.
Report Post »Gruug
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:56pmThese people are not Baptist but I am beginning to think they ARE neo-Nazis. Unfortunately, I have seen many a liberal point to them and say…”see how the right is?”. And these “fair minded” liberals won’t even try to seperate these people from the Tea Party movement (of which Westboro is NOT a part).
Report Post »Deutscher
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:10pmWhat have they done that would make them neo-Nazis? I don’t see skinheads or talk of racial purity. They are just nutty fundamentalist Christians. Happily they seem like a small group.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:54pmDeutscher, I think many fundamental believers would take issue with people who don’t try to love their neighbor and say incorrect things about God, like they are infamous for their sign saying “God hates ****.” That is just the opposite of what God tells us in his Word. One test of a prophet is that they speak God’s truth. These phelps people do not.
Report Post »DHD
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:53pmMaybe if we stopped giving these idiots attention, they’ll go away.
Report Post »starman70
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 9:11amYou hit the nail on the head! They thrive on publicity and the “Donations” of disallusioned people from all over the country. Ignore them and they will soon go away!
Report Post »Cherished Emblems
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:31pmPurchase a Jesus Christ Medallion…a portion of sales go to support military members without any family this Christmas! Buy one to send to the WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH this season. Maybe they will catch the spirt of the Lord.
http://www.cherishedemblems.com/
Report Post »Stewie
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:20pmSkidmore, Missouri. Witnesses? What witnesses???
Report Post »JustPeachy
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:18pmThat’s awful. Unbelievable. There seems to be so many of them in this video. . I hope this “church” isn’t growing! :-(
Report Post »balrog
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:12pmi was raised as a christian but we never took Santa seriously or as a replacement for Christ..the true meaning of Christmas was never lost and the “humanist” role of Santa always took a back seat to the more spiritual celebration of Jesus’ birth..these westies are way out there and need to let the fun and lightness of Santa also brighten the season..Christ doesnt have to be the only one calling for peace, love , joy and understanding
Report Post »BoogieMan7
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 6:07amCheck out u tube videos origins of christmas. If your a true follower of Christ you will stop celebrating this abomination to the Lord. It is the first baby step out of Babylon and it will release you from the curses he sends upon those who remain a part of Satan’s false church.
Report Post »NHABE64
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:11pmI was just pondering what would an appropriate reward for these cockroaches, stoning perhaps, washed into the gutter with a high power fire hose ? Taken out to the parking lot and given a serious ass kicking. Hopefully one of or all the above will happen to them one day. Better watch out, better be careful, some Patriots may just find you alone without your security one day…
Report Post »star7mj
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:03pmThis is sick! It’s amazing to me at how cruel and hateful people are. I’m becoming quite afraid because of the hate in this world. I pray every night that satan and his followers are removed and that Jesus Christ comes and takes over. I cry over the cruelty that some people impose on others, and to subject little children to such hate is so very wrong. We should all be enjoying the Christmas season when we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. When I was little we enjoyed all that goes with the holiday, Santa, presents, singing, good food and especially sharing! and so much Love spread around! It should be that way all year long! The horrible people on this planet who think only of what hurt they can spread, ruining our country… They better wake up and see SEE what’s coming, change their hearts around if they have a heart! As scary as it might be when things get really bad, I’m anxious for the evil to end. I’ve been warning my family and friends to stock up on food, necessities and to pray constantly. I Love my Savior Jesus Christ and my family and friends. God Bless Glenn Beck and those who are helping us learn our history and to pray on bended knee and to study out for ourselves what we need to learn. God Bless America! please! Merry Christmas!!!! Merry Christmas!!!!!
Report Post »Karama
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:03pmWow these people need to hook up with the muslims over in England who are doing a similar campaign. I bet they would get along like a house on fire.
Seriously though I thought it was discovered that the Westboro nuts were a leftist communist group and weren’t even really Christians in the first place.
Report Post »82dAirborne
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:20pmThat’s it!!!! ” ….a house on fire….” That is exactly where the adults in this group belong.
Report Post »balrog
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:03pmpeople need to continue to lock arms and hearts and stand against these extremist and to provide shelter for the families of the fallen from their misguided hate..i m totally opposed to the abberration of being gay but not enough to curse our heroes..if they hate gay people so much why dont they show up at their funerals to cheer on their passing or at gay weddings..see how long the bleeding hearts and libs would tolerate that
Report Post »Rickfromillinois
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:58pmHenceforth they should be known as the Westboro Whackoes. These people are nuts and their constant use of children in their crazy “protests” should almost be considered child abuse.
Report Post »Deerehauler
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:47pmI draw the line on their ‘antics’ when they involve their children in these faux protests. I believe the Bible is the inspired and inerrant Word of God, and homosexuality is clearly condemned. I also believe Matthew 18:6 speaks clearly in their case “but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea”
I don’t have any millstones handy, but would a few junk engine blocks suffice?
Report Post »Deutscher
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:07pmI can understand the draw of theology. But maybe you can explain to me how you can be a literalist? The New Testament is a collection of the translations of SOME of the writings circulating around 300 yrs AD – not all and none were written at the time of Christ. Add to this that they are translations. If you have ever translated from one language to another you know it is never exact. You can get the general idea across but it is ofte not exact. So the authors over a hundred yrs after the fact would have to get it correct and the translators hundreds of yrs later would have to done the impossible and gotten a 100% accurate translation and our English version would have to match that is very hard to believe having translated documents myself.
Report Post »Why is it not enough to say it represents the word of god?
trolltrainer
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:12pmDeutscher,
That would be a long and complex argument and probably would not convince you. It all boils down to who you will believe, the original church fathers or the literal critics of the last few centuries. I can tell you that you have some misconceptions. Every book of the NT was written before the turn of the first century. The Gospels were all written either by eyewitnesses to Christ’s life or people in contact with those eyewitnesses. Paul’s epistles make up the bulk of what is left along with letters from Peter, John, and James. There is no reason to doubt the traditional views of who the original authors were. It is one of those arguments that you can easily dispute it and cast doubt, but without any good reason to believe otherwise I will stick with the accepted knowledge.
Another misconception is that there were all these manuscripts floating around and at the Nicene Council they just cherry-picked the documents they wanted to use. This is far from the truth though. The books we now have in the NT were accepted and circulated from the beginning. There were, of course, many other writings, but they were always less accepted with just a few exceptions that may have ended up in the NT. There were also a few books that were controversial but were included. The thing is, these decisions were made over a couple hundred years and are based on solid principles. It is fairly obvious when you read through the Gnostic works why they were not included. Some are just downright silly and go against what the Bible teaches, such as Jesus turning clay birds to life as a child. John clearly states the Cana wedding miracle of turning water to wine was his first miracle. But at the end of the day, you need to understand that not only was the Bible Spirit inspired but the compilation of the canon was also. God made sure we have the Bible He wanted us to have. That is just common sense.
As far as the translation argument, it does not hold water, especially since the 20th century where we found so many more early manuscripts and fragments. Do the research of this from the biblical side, there are more fragments of the Bible than there are any other work of literature. Everything is cross referenced so many times it is unreal. There are differences between fragments and there are mistakes. We do not believe the KJV is error free, every translation contains errors. We believe the original manuscripts were error free. However, the problems that exist are so minor they only make up like 1% of the totality of the NT and not a single doctrinal question exists, they are simple grammar errors and numerical errors that mean nothing. There are a few questions of verse order and whether some verses were original or added later. But these are all well documented in every good study Bible and again, they do not change anything doctrinally. As far as word usage, we have the manuscripts in the original languages (Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic) and they have been studied for two thousand years now. We also have vast libraries of the writings of the earliest church fathers many of which quote Scripture directly. BTW, we also have most of the questionable Gnostic writings that were not included and they are freely available online to study. I have read most of them, some are quite amusing.
No, there are no problems. Only a world full of people trying to cast doubt on the Bible for a number of reasons. But if you simply read the Bible as it is written it all becomes startlingly clear. You do not need a higher education or any superior knowledge to understand it, read it as it is written.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:28pmDeutscher I think the majority of the books of the New Testament were written prior to the end of the first century, with some written within 10 years of Christ’s resurrection. It seems translating Greek to English is not extremely difficult, but as you say, some things don’t translate directly, and some of the Greek words have multiple meanings depending upon how they are used in the original text.
Report Post »Deutscher
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:43pm@TT. Thank you for your response. I was catholic ( now agnostic ) and am familiar with the Council of Nicea and the history of the texts. I know how they were chosen and why so many were left out. Your response cuts directly to the points I have a problem with.
Report Post »They were not written by eyewitnesses however. The accounts of several incidents are different. I’m not familiar with any experts who think that they were written by the hand of the authors to whim they are attributed. Regardless your response is predicated on everything being directed by the hand of god – common sense you say. And yes if you believe god was involved, seems common sense he ensured correct texts and translations. But that assumes gods intervention I personally am dubious of that so I look critically at the work. No matter, I respect Christians beliefs I simply cringe when I hear people speak in such absolute terms about “inerrant” texts that even conflict with themselves about some details.
Literalism leads to so many issues that could be avoided if the stories are used as guides and not like a newspaper. It gives rise to fundamentalism and exclusion by some, and makes guys like me uncomfortable.
Thank you again for the conversation and merry Christmas.
trolltrainer
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:59pmSparky,
One of my favorite examples of what you are saying is John 21:15-17 where the resurrected Jesus asks Peter if he loves Him. The KJV translation (which many Christians will defend as the inerrant Word of God) uses the word “love” in all places. The meaning of this transaction is lost! There are four Greek words for love; agape, eros, philia, and storge. In this particular passage Jesus is asking Peter, who betrayed Him, “Peter, do you love me?” Peter is heartbroken that he betrayed his Savior. I mean, he is crushed, he knows he is not worthy. He answers, “Lord, I like you.”
You can see that the simple change of this single word adds a whole new dimension to this conversation. Jesus is building Peter back up, He is saying, “Peter, it is okay. Go feed my sheep! You are worthy for the job I appointed you to.” The KJV lacks this depth, a causal reader would only see Peter responding, “Yes Lord, of course I love you.”
This would seem to validate what Deutscher is saying, and in a way it does! The Bible is to be studied. It is not something anyone can completely know, even over a lifetime. But there is also no mystery here, no mistake. Just a less than stellar translation on this particular passage. I can also show several passages where the KJV is the best translation. The key here is do not tie yourself to a single translation, use many. Use the internet and sources like biblegateway.com and apps like e-sword. We also have commentaries to use. The sheer bulk of material for Bible study is staggering. Everyone should have a Strong‘s Concordance and a Ryrie’s Theology. If you casually read the Bible you will understand the main doctrine you need for salvation, but it does take work and understanding to get down to the meat in Scripture. But it is not an unknown science or a mystery either.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 12:08amSparky101
Report Post »Posted on December 24, 2010 at 12:04am
Deutscher, hmmmm, Matthew, Peter and John not eyewitnesses? Wow, that changes everything for me. You also say: “The accounts of several incidents are different.” Which ones, and just how are they different? Also, since written by different people, I should not expect exactly the same should I? What would be the value of four Gospels that were identical? But, I’ll await your response detailing the differences that “spoil” it for you.
trolltrainer
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 12:16amDeutscher,
So the big problem you have are the differences between the gospels, particularly the synoptic gospels.
I understand. They are different, and there probably is a markan priority. I have done in-depth side by side comparisons on many of the passages and there is no doubt they were copied from each other in some way. Yet there are major differences also. Things mentioned in one Gospel that are not in the others. Seeming differences in order also abound.
But you are looking at it through twenty-first century eyes and a Western mentality. You expect their writing style to match with what you think is right. They do not. They thought with an Oriental mind. Their goal was not accuracy, it was to convey their own theological points. It is true that they even twisted certain sayings to make their own points. You need to understand why each Gospel was written; the message it was conveying and the recipient.
As far as your claim that you do not know any scholars who believe they were written by the attributed authors, you are keeping bad company then! I can say the same, with the exception of a few literary critics like Bauer most theologians I am acquainted with believe they were written by the people by whom the book is called. I can mount a good case for any book, but it is pointless in this forum. You would be better served looking into it yourself, you will find much for both sides and you will ultimately believe what you want. But to claim there is no case for believing the traditional views is a bit disingenuous, as tradition is on that side. There are motives for trying to cast doubt here, mostly to try and show that the Bible cannot be taken literally. There are a whole slew of reasons for this but they ultimately amount to someone not liking what the Bible really says and wanting to change it to say what they wish.
Anyway…I enjoy talking to you, we have had some good conversations so far. I will respectfully agree to disagree with you.
Report Post »WISEPENNY
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 12:32am@TROLLTRAINER. Great postings. Nothing like the TRUTH hidden in plain sight is there? It’s only there for those that believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.
Report Post »Deutscher
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 12:47am@TT. Thanks again ( I am really going to bed after this post lol).
One quick question. Are you saying that you think the texts used to translate the bible were actually written by the attributed authors and not copies? Surely there would be no way to verify that. Although it is impressive how close all the acient copies were to each other without laser copiers.
Report Post »But again. My point was to literalism. Something I think is unnecessary and problematic If it were intended to be literal, why would there be so many variations on Christianity? It strikes me that if it were so, there would be little need for but one church and one answer to these questions.
I respect the level of knowledge you possess on this topic. It obviously means a great deal to you and I think you understand my point.
Merry Christmas my friend.
trolltrainer
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 1:26amI need to hit the sack also, but did want to reply to this.
I am not quite sure what you are asking, but I know for a fact that there are no surviving “original” manuscripts. The letters that Paul wrote for instance are long since gone. The fragments and early manuscripts that exist are copies. The things is, these writings were copied and transmitted right from the beginning. It is a misconception that people back then did not write much, just look at how many Gnostic writings we have. You can bet that there was much, much more back in the day. We know through Paul’s epistles that we have that he wrote several other letters that are lost. How do we know these were not inspired writing that was supposed to be included in the canon? :-) I suppose the only answer is because they were not copied and transmitted. I would also suggest because the Holy Spirit did not want them included. Anyway, there were many “churches” and they all wanted these writings. This is why we have so many surviving manuscripts and fragments. When you consider that they were each copied by hand by a human writer it really is quite amazing that they are all so identical. Again, the differences between them do not amount to anything.
I really wanted to answer your second question though. Why are there so many variations in Christianity? Because the Bible can be interpreted in so many different ways!!! Yeah, I know, I played right into your hands…
But think about this, what does it mean to be a Christian? I can guarantee that my answer will be the same as EVERY born again Christian in the world! If their answer does not match mine then they are not a Christian, no matter what they call themselves. What do we REALLY need to know? John 3:16. There is no dispute over what that says. Acts 16:31. There may be a question on whether Silas had any infants in his family that were baptized, but the core doctrine of 16:31 is believe on the Lord and you will be saved. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. No one argues this! If you do then you cannot be a Christian! I studied under Dr. Gary Habermas, one of the smartest guys I ever met. He calls it “bulls-eye theology.” Everything you need to know to be a saved Christian fits in a small little niche, so easy a five year old can understand it. Just know you are a sinner and Christ died for you. Ask Him into your heart. Boom! That is all!
But once we become born again Christians we will see a change in our lives. The Holy Spirit enters into us and guides us. It is up to us to be sensitive to Him though, He is a guide, not an enforcer. We should feel the need to turn to the Word of God, to study it to show ourselves approved (2 Tim 2:15, the AWANA verse). As we study the Word we develop our own individual theologies. Why? Because the Bible is NOT a rule book! It is not a guide book. It is not specific on most things. I believe God has a sense of humor and enjoys this diversity. I also believe He did it this way so that it would hold our interest. We can spend our entire lives studying and nothing is certain. I was much more arminian when I started out, I believed free will reigned. But when I had to confront the fate of the unevangelized I had to turn to a more calvinistic theology to answer how a just God could condemn someone who never even had a chance to hear the gospel. Questions abound: Pre-millinnial, post-millinnial, amillinnial, pre-trib, post-trib, sprinkling or dunking, 5 point calvinist or extreme arminian, charismatic, noncharismatic…Man, the list is endless! Even the stupid things, the stuff Habermas says is in the outer ring, gospel music or contemporary, how often do we celebrate Lord’s Supper, KJV or NIV…Churches split over the dumbest things! But does it matter?
NO!
We are ALL the Body of Christ! There is only 1 church! We are the church. It does not matter what denomination you are, I am a Baptist by chance, a Christian by Grace! As long as you believe you are saved. I do not agree with many other denominations, and that is okay. No one asked me to! I worship where I am comfortable, where people generally agree with my interpretation of Scripture. I am fine with people disagreeing with me. I enjoy the discussions.
It is not a problem, it is an asset. As long as we follow the core doctrinal beliefs set forth in the Bible and stay away from the errors we are warned against we are fine. Religion is meaningless, we each have a relationship with Christ. That is where the focus should be. The Bible keeps us on the straight and narrow but there is wiggle room on the road. You can walk right, left or center. Just as long as you stay on the road. And the ditches are in plain sight.
Report Post »auntmoxie.com
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:45pmIf hell is a place where I can be assured not to be surrounded by these nut-jobs, sign me up — and pass the Eggnog.
Report Post »Catherine A.
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:02pmI don‘t think there’s any eggnog in hell. Only cold, stale coffee.
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:38pmAuntMoxie, I believe Hell is going to be where a lot of nut jobs tend to go. You don’t have to sign up for Hell, you just have to be absent from the Lamb’s Book of Life. So, you may want to reconsider.
Report Post »Willie Wonka
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:42pmI wonder why we haven’t seen a motorcycle gang protesting these Westboro animals. It would be great press for the bikers. Imagine them standing in a face off. I think the Westboro creeps would be thinking twice about spouting their crap. Maybe I’m just an instigator. Heh…heh…..
Report Post »murphytavern
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 9:35amwhat like the hells angels,sons of anarchy,or riders for Christ
Report Post »aeronut44
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:40pmI will never understand people like u butcher. I never just walk around and say “Atheism sux”…Why do people that have a problem with religion have to be soooo hateful. If you don’t believe fine, why be so mean?
Report Post »Y.pestis
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:38pmWhat a cheery bunch. Yes sir, these people sure do embody the holiday spirit.
Report Post »P C BE DAMNED
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:35pmWhen they are rught , they are right. I will not defend fiction when we are in such need of truth. The outright hatred of these people makes a thinking man wonder whats going on. And no I don’t understand everything they do.
Report Post »Catherine A.
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:01pmYes, PC, I have a problem with Santa myself. At some point he seemed to take over the starring role in Christmas, even the part about knowing who‘s been naughty and who’s been nice. The actual Saint Nicholas must surely be appalled.
But the rest of it — complete with tiny children telling us we’re going to hell — is such a perversion of Christianity that you really have to see the video to believe they actually do this stuff. I still think a good response might be to quit posting this crap on any reputable web site. Just IGNORE.
Report Post »MotherRedDog
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:35pmThis is what happens when people inbreed.
Report Post »EP46
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 5:28amI have read that the members are all related. I have also read that 2 of the family are lawyers. They go out and ‘create’ these incidents, hoping that someone will do something that they can sue them over. The article said they get their money from law suits brought by the family lawyers against people or groups who they protest against. Sounds like it‘s just a ’family business’.
Report Post »God have mercy on them, they know not what they do.
MrButcher
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:33pmreligion sucks.
period.
Report Post »aeronut44
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:41pmI will never understand people like u butcher. I never just walk around and say “Atheism sux”…Why do people that have a problem with religion have to be soooo hateful. If you don’t believe fine, why be so mean?
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:10pmI’m not mean. I just like ideas and debate.
and, not in spite of my atheism,
I’d like to take this opportunity to wish you and everyone here a Merry Christmas and offer a toast
be good and just
for all your days
for you never know
how the (yule)tide sways
cheers, me fellow blazers
Report Post »A Steiger
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:19pmIt’s alright man. I’ll gladly witness to your kids and family about the Gospel. They’ll thank me for it later.
Merry Christmas;)
Report Post »komponist-ZAH
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:33pmCheers, and a Merry Christmas to you, too, Butcher.
In some sense I agree with your pithy assessment, but it depends on what you mean by religion (is it a going through the motions religion, or true faith — but I don’t suppose an atheist makes much of a distinction). These people, however, are simply beyond words. They have obviously never read the first epistle of St. John.
Report Post »thepatriotdave
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:54pmMrButcher,
So do you.
Merry Christmas!
Report Post »DogTags
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 5:05amFunny how atheists hate religion, but their religion cannot account for morality. They hate religion but I bet Butcher would object to me slapping him in the face or sleeping with his wife. He cannot bear the consequences of his religion so he has to borrow from a superior one, Christianity. His religion, his faith caused the deaths of more people in the 19th and 20th centuries than theistic religions have in the entire history of the world. His atheistic religion was featured in Germany from the late 1800s to the end of WWII. Atheistic religion took hold of the Soviet Union and Stalin and his successors killed tens of millions. Mao’s Atheistic religion killed around 80 million Chinese.
So, go ahead and mock theistic religion. George Washington would have called you unpatriotic (read his Farewell Address). But, do not make any moral judgments because you have no basis for doing so. Only a system that believes in moral absolutes can account for morality. When I sleep with your wife, don’t get mad. Why, atheistically, is adultery bad? The reason why you’d get mad is because you have Natural Law written in your heart put there by the Creator. You can’t help but get angry at injustice because the God of creation made you want justice. But you hold to your irrational religion and do not even care that you are being intellectually dishonest with demanding others be moral even though you deny the only One who can establish morality. What a fool you are.
Report Post »ETOOL USMC RECON
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 8:14amSo Butcher….when you get sick and need to go to the hospital…have you had any luck finding that atheist one, or are the THOUSANDS of hospitals started and maintained by people of faith just a convenient FLUKE ????
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 10:28am@dogtags
read the Constitution asshat.
America is a secular republic,
Period.
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 1:11pmMr Butcher, The hand of God is open to you, it always has been and always will be. You may never choose to grasp that hand. It isn’t up to me or any other human on earth to convince you, trick you or bully you into belief. You are not willing or able to accept the story of Christ and what he did for human kind. There is no shame. For those who understand and have a desire the kingdom is ours.
Report Post »Lives are changed,things are no longer the same, that is not fathomable to some. Anytime you wish to explore the gift you may recieve, open a Bible. No one person can or should fill your head with their version of Christianity. Lashing out at those who do believe just tells me you may be ready to take a look.
Merry Christmas
Sgt.Crust
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 1:20pm@Butcher, then you most have read OUR declaration of Independence? GO read it knucklehead!
Report Post »DogTags
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 7:25pmButcher,
I must have hit a nerve. Read the Declaration of Independence. Our Constitution (which mentions God, In the year of our Lord 1787) protects our rights that were endowed to us by our Creator. America is a religious republic. It may not be a Christian republic anymore, but it is a religious republic. Unfortunately, your religion has now been established. Only, “freethinkers” have convinced themselves, irrationally, that they do not have faith. You have bound your mind in a small box that you cannot think outside of. “Freethinkers” are neither free, nor thinkers.
Report Post »Marylou7
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:33pmThese people are beyond sick. Anyway…Merry CHRISTmas!! Praise the Holy Name of Jesus…..
Report Post »CatB
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:56pmAmen ..
I wish the press would just ignore them. Like they do the truth.
Report Post »diesel71dan
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:32pmGeeeesh, these people again???? I am Baptist but please don’t associate these people with the rest of us. Granted, homosexuality is WRONG and Christmas should be about the birth of Christ. I will agree with that. HOWEVER, I can not think of anything less Christian than the hatred these people are spewing.
Report Post »Keep Christ in Christmas!! Teach your children the true meaning of Christmas!!! I do my best to do both of those but assure you Santa will be stopping at my house. If these lunatics know so much about Christ you think they would know something about judging people!!!
guyperram
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:38pmI‘ll bet you Barney Franks won’t agree with your accessment of homosexuality.
Report Post »LUDWIKA BRONISLAWA
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:49pmAmen! I DO wish these people would be referred to as the westboros and have no mention of Baptists OR church.
Report Post »WHITE HAT PATRIOT
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:12pm“I am Baptist but please don’t associate these people with the rest of us…”
@DIESEL71DAN
Report Post »No reasonable, intelligent person would ever associate a “real Baptist” with these people. I am not a Baptist but I know that Baptists don’t distort the Gospel of Jesus Christ like Fred Phelps and his followers. The best thing to do for these people is to pray that the Holy Spirit will free their hearts and minds from this hatred.
thepatriotdave
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:50pmguyperram,
Who cares?
Merry Christmas!
Report Post »TikeSissy
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 12:04am@ diesel71dan
Report Post »Actually, these people do have it right. But their way of educating the pubilc is wrong. At one time this Holiday was outlawed in the United States because of its pagan beginnings. Read the History of Christmas, once Hollywood got a hold of it, it took off like wildfire. Jer 10:3 For the ordinances of the people are vanity. For one cuts a tree out of the forest with the axe, the work of the hands of the craftsman.
Jer 10:4 They adorn it with silver and with gold; they make them strong with nails and hammers, so that it will not wobble.
Jer 10:5 They are like a rounded post, and they cannot speak; carrying they must be carried, because they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil nor good; it is not with them.
Jer 10:6 There is none like You, O Jehovah; You are great, and Your name is great in might.
SlimnRanger
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 7:27amI totally agree Diesel,I really wish they would drop the word Baptist from their cult name, but the real Christians that know jesus as their Lord don’t worship Santa we are all mart enough to know he is a myth in the sense that he is known today ,there was a St. Nick that went about doing good and thats what God wants us all to do ,and although this most likley isn‘t the real birth of Christ it’s a good a time as any to celebrate his Birthday so Happy Birthday Jesus and Merry Christmas ya’ll !
Report Post »guyperram
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:28pmAre these people actually Muslims? Or do they just like being crazed freaks? Since the FCC is the new Lord and Master over speech, maybe they should send some FCC thugs over to discuss things with these people.
Report Post »tower7femacamp
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 7:47amGUY please read this book
Report Post »http://george-orwell.org/1984/0.html
this is my Christmas present to you
aeronut44
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:28pmProof that there are idiots in any religion! It is ALL about Christ people….stop sweating the stupid stuff.
Report Post »John 1776
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:50pmSo what is their point? Santa is gay? I mean, I’m starting to think they are a shell for the left to get people on board with speech limitations. I can almost imagine BO laughing to himself, “So you want free speech, eh?”
Report Post »Taquoshi
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 9:56pmSadly, they think they are doing the “right” thing, and think that they are modern day prophets like Jeremiah, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obediah and the rest of the group in the Old Testament. I’ve left out the major prophets, cause this group is not even in the minor, minor, minor, minor biddy ball league.
They’ve missed two critical factors in the Bible. While God will judge, Christ came to redeem those who are called by his Name. I’m not going to get into the theology of what that means here, but the big time problem is that this group feels they are the ones who are sitting in judgment rather than God the Father. They totally violate Christ’s redemptive power through His death and resurrection, which is fine by me, but may be a problem for them later on down the line. I won’t be the one answering for it, thank God!
As for Santa, one does not have to go out and have billboards and signs made up condemning Santa. We raised our son without Santa, and didn’t foam at the mouth when other people mentioned it.
They just needed a soapbox to be in the headlines, that’s all. I guess after their tires got slashed at a protest, they kind of figured they’d have to broaden their scope of activities.
Of course, for the rest of us, we could be really nice and send them lumps of coal. Wouldn’t that be fun!
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:01pmAmen Taquoshi.
Works do not get you to heaven or hell. The only thing that redeems you is faith in Jesus Christ. That means that some of the Westboro folks could actually be saved too, though we are known to each other by the fruits of the Spirit. Their fruit is rotten to the core and I fail to see how any of them can be Spirit lead.
Report Post »JESUS-IS-LORD
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:11pmIt’s all true. Christmas is fake, phony and the biggest lie created by the
catholic monster also known as the world mafia.
Come on God’s children of the earth, do some research!
Don’t you have a computer?
A1955Rosie
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:11pmI would expect nothing less from this group of yahoo’s. Their entire agenda is to tear at the moral fabric. They’re no different than the aclu with their desire to PROFIT under the guise of 1st Amendment. They really are becomming as credible as a child in a temper tantrum.
Report Post »broker0101
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:19pmOnce one honestly, and I mean HONESTLY believes that there is an omnipotent God who created heaven and earth to whom we owe not just our existence, but our obedience and worship, one’s life must be dedicated, without respite, to that cause of worship, obedience and service to the letter of the law (the Bible). The only possible end result of that process is radicalism. I applaud the Westboro nutjobs, as well as Islamic extremists, for at least having the courage of their convictions. All of you “reasonable” fundamentalist Christians here are nothing more than undedicate cowards who talk the talk but don’t walk the walk. Yahweh demands more from you.
trolltrainer
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:25pmJesus is Lord,
You are right. Christmas was an appeasement to pagan Christians. I know many brothers who dislike the holiday and that is okay. But the way I see it, Jesus was born sometime and Dec. 25 is as good a day as any to celebrate it. It is probably one of the least likely months He was actually born but the tradition that has built up surrounding Christmas can be very beautiful and very meaningful to Christians. I see no need to fight that…
On the flip side, Christ is in each believer year round and we should each have a living relationship with Him through the Spirit. Christmas should never be a substitute for that,
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:28pmBroker,
You are actually right in a fundamental way. But the problem is they are not following Christ’s teachings.
Report Post »VanGrungy
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:40pmIn reality, Santa Clause is still kept safe in Italy.. St. Nicholas was not ‘Turkish’, no… he was a Christian Anatolian.. Recently Turkey has been pressuring for the transfer of St. Nick’s bones back to Ergodan’s Turkey…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8432314.stm
I don’t think the denial of the Orthodox Christians to build the St. Nicholas Church that was destroyed on 9/11 is procedural in any sense…
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/12/bloomberg-ethics-violations-collusion-gave-political-support-to-ground-zero-mosque-supremacists-newl.html
obvious bias is obvious… Do Christians really want to give up one of their original Saints?
I hope not…
Report Post »Deutscher
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:44pmFundamentalism is never pretty and those who adhere to it never seem happy.
Report Post »Christmas is at it’s core about renewal and hope I think. Be it the pagan festival for the conquering of the longest night, or the Christian birth of a savior story it should be used to share that hope and happiness with others. It’s unfortunate these misguided people are missing out and taking the path of hate once again.
The1776er
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:49pmRevelations 3:16 (I’m paraphrasing)
“But since thou art lukewarm, neither cold nor hot, I will spit thee out of my mouth.”
Like some have said, I applaud their dedication, but I believe that they have strayed from what Jesus actually taught.
Report Post »TotallyBelievableGuy
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:55pmYou are all one in the same.
Report Post »NickDeringer
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:00pmI’m beginning to think that Westboro Baptist is a Soros funded organization.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm….
Report Post »Sparky101
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:07pmBroker, we are no longer under the law.
Jsh1284
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:22pmBroker, you are a coward and a fool. Do you know the mathematical odds of a random creation? It’s a mathematic impossibility. Do you realize the odds of ONE MALE chromosome actually randomly coming into existence? Then the odds of a FEMALE? Then what are the odds of countless umpteen uberbamillionzillions of them actually randomly forming? How is that any more of a stretch of the imagination than a creator? You really are an idiot, my man …
Furthermore, Albert Einstein .. the greatest scientific mind of the modern age .. was a huge atheist for DECADES! However when he started digging DEEP into the unknowns of science he realized there are so many redundancies and strange “co-incidences” in the universe that there MUST be intelligent design! The odds of anything else were just so staggeringly impossible that no true scientific mind could believe in such a lie. So with that said, why not actually believe in something? Instead of believing in a fairy tale that magic created life on Earth via nothing but DIRT and maybe a magical comet that collided with us .. believe in a creator that created us .. from the elements of the earth by his own hand? It’s not so complicated, really …
If you think we’re foolish for believing in something so un-scientific, how are YOU any different from us? The only difference is our lives have purpose. Yours has no meaning or significance. You simpy exist .. and that‘s why you’re a huge douchebag who trolls on a site that you have no interest in whatsoever.
Report Post »Jsh1284
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:30pmHeck, even the top scientists of today (Atheists) admit to having thoughts that there might BE a creator .. due to the redundancies and intricate design of the entire universe. Most of them are not going to convert to a religion (they’d lose credibility wit the other heathen) however if you do a little research, you’ll see that some of the top scientific minds of the world have spoken about this very topic. These folks are deep into the science of the universe .. and they see things that simple minds like yours can’t comprehend. It‘s only logical that they’d start to realize that there might actually be some kind of plan to things.
Report Post »independentvoteril
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:31pmmy ex husband’s father was a Baptist Minister when I first started going out with him.. I was raised Catholic but tried to keep peace within the family.. so most times never said much when visiting because his dad couldn’t hold a conservation without a direct Bible quote such as if you asked how he was THERE was a quote that described how he was feeling..he never said anything nice.. these people remind me of him.. I am not by any means saying that all Baptists are like this.. I know many and NONE are like these people.. but they seem to THINK they have all the answers and their way is the correct way.. these people are NOT a religious they are a cult.. FYI my ex father in law lightened up after a while..but it seems he was hiding a crappy personality behind the Bible..
Report Post »paperpushermj
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:35pmThis is a Church of one family that’s it. A whacked out family that good company should ignore as much as possible.
Report Post »thepatriotdave
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:39pmWestboro stopped being a Church for Christians a long time ago. Its become nothing more than a cult for idiots.
Merry Christmas!
Report Post »Jsh1284
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:41pmIndependent. . I am a Baptist and this church is NOTHING like a true Baptist church. These folks are a cult. Baptist people are mostly regular conservatives who are simply trying to do right by the Bible and God. To generalize and compare the WESTBORO Baptist Church to ANY regular Baptist Church is simply insulting and completely misguided.
Report Post »thepatriotdave
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:42pmJESUS-IS-LORD,
You must be a member of the Westboro Cult.
Merry Christmas!
Report Post »thepatriotdave
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:45pmbroker0101,
Go back to the Daily Kos. I’m sure you would enjoy their company more as you seem to hate everything about Conservatives.
Merry Christmas anyway.
Report Post »thepatriotdave
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:47pmTotallyBelievableGuy
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 10:55pm
“You are all one in the same.”
Please expand on your comment.
Merry Christmas!
Report Post »sedition
Posted on December 23, 2010 at 11:48pmIdiots to say the least. I hate you all equally which means I like you all the same.
Report Post »Wayner
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 12:27amOf course Santa Claus isn’t a real person….. but in the same way the people Jesus mentioned (except of course, Lazarus) in His parables weren’t real people either. Jesus used these made up people to make a point. In the same way, Santa is the spirit (or representation) of love and giving during this time of year. Santa rewards good works of the children, just as the true Christian will be rewarded for good works at the Judgement Seat of Christ. I have a feeling (of course I’m not a judge but a fruit inspector) that many of these “gnostics” at Westboro Baptist Church will not appear at this Bema,,, but instead will appear at the Great White Throne Judgement.
Report Post »101
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 12:51amHey now, don’t be knocking Santa Clause!
They get to go dance & worship with their serpent “rattle snakes” after singing & promoting hate in America!
Has everybody gone fricken nuts in this world?
Report Post »CultureWarriors
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 12:54amThis is what you get when you combine liberal Democrats with religion. Perversion. I know the truth hurts for the liberals, and the MSM has never mentioned it, but Fred Phelps is a life long Democrat and liberal civil rights attorney. He’s also a BIG Algore supporter! Liberal Democrats are such nice people!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIqryU3Sp54
Report Post »fizix
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 12:57amJesus-is-Lord….Thanks for the hate, you “christian”….You’re clearly an idiot. The whole of Christianity started with the Universal Church. Do your own research, idiot.
Report Post »godlovinmom
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 1:06ameven though I do not do christmas…I do not put my beliefs on anyone…I don’t mix Christ with any holiday…but this so called baptist church is way out there…do they think they bring themselves any glory…I think not…very sad…true disciples of Christ do not do these things…
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 1:52amI was just watching a documentary this evening about the Phelps family (“Fall from Grace”) and their so-called church. These people are not Christians and I can say that with confidence because in the documentary Fred Phelps said people were wrong about thinking Jesus is their personal savior. In Jesus’ day, Phelps and his clan would have been considered Pharisees, who were self-righteous, judgmental and without love. The Pharisees were constantly trying to entrap Jesus and they were the people for whom Jesus reserved his harshest words. It should be clear to any Christian that these people do not know Jesus, nor do they understand His gospel, and sadly they will be in for a terrible surprise when they die.
“Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” (Mt 7:22-23).
“Then the Lord spoke to him. ‘You Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish,’ he said. ‘But inside you are full of greed and evil.’” (Jesus speaking in Lk 11:39).
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.” (Jesus speaking in Mt 23:27-28).
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 2:08amBroker0101, you are completely ignorant about the work of Jesus on the Cross. The Bible says if you keep the entire law except for one point, you are guilty of breaking every law in the Bible (Jms 2:10). Absent from Jesus keeping the law on your behalf when he lived a perfect life and then receiving the punishment you deserve for breaking the law, you will be judged as though you broke all of God’s laws if you have ever even so much as told a white lie. So, while your condemning all of us Christians as undedicated cowards who don’t “walk the walk,” you are actually condemning yourself. I hope you come to the realization that you’re a dead man walking, or you’re going to have one Hell of a time when you go before God on your judgment day.
“Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.” (Romans 2:1).
Report Post »wash1776
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 2:13am@BROKER0101: Someone as unkind as you are with your comments has no idea what Yahweh wants.”Undedicated cowards that talk the talk but don’t walk the walk”? You applaud the Westboro church and Islamic extremists for the courage of their convictions? You are a real piece of work!!! So then, you approve of them demonstrating at funerals when people are grieving and the slaughter of innocents by Islamites because they think everyone that doesn’t believe in their warped religion of hate and violence? But you put down people that believe in the Bible as something to be ridiculed and scorned. If you believe in any god, it must be a Satanic one—-JUST AS YOUR STATEMENT IS SATANIC.
Report Post »quiet little lamb
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 3:38amWhat a fun church!
Report Post »Dustyluv
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 4:08amLooks like someone nees to take a plank out of their eye. These people are nuts..
Report Post »BoogieMan7
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 4:46amEverything the Average person thinks they know about Christmas is wrong. It was never about Christ. It is an abomination to God to associate Him or His Son Our Lord and Savior to this Pagan Holiday. Do some research about the origins of this Holiday and when your done you will be surprised to know that You have been deceived and the Westboro Church is correct again in their stand against practices that invoke the Curses of God on your life and Family for up to 3 generations. Stop making false knowledge claims. The Lord said “My people are destroyed by lack of knowledge” These People care about the souls of men.
Report Post »DogTags
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 4:48amAgain “Jesus-is-lord” says something really stupid making me wish he didn’t claim to be a Christian. He and his friends at Westboro are nothing but Pharisees. These totalitarian religionists do not believe in the Christ of Christmas. Their god is a bully like Allah that is so transcendant that he needs men to enforce his laws.
Report Post »tower7femacamp
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 7:45amThey are right about Santa, ask yourself is Red the color of Jesus ?
Report Post »http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/santa.html
Why don’t we just use Saint Nichols ????
and about the Priests ? They have a point there also, but I would point out
it is also very common in the Jewish community with Rabbis
but they own the Media so you don’t hear about it.
http://www.iamthewitness.com/listeners/Jewish.child.molesters.that.are.never.on.the.NEWS-WHY.htm
tower7femacamp
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 7:48amcorrection St. Nicholas
Report Post »Dirty Harry
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 8:33amSanta should bring CPS to their houses.
Report Post »snowleopard3200 {cat folk art}
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 10:24amAgreed, idiots are not limited to just one area of the human species. Just looking at DC is enough proof for that.
Report Post »Country
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 10:33amPerson who used the name JESUS-IS-LORD, I hope you are not defending these horrible people. They are not Christians and they do no support Christ.
Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ (Christian); and shall deceive many.
Even Obama and Oprah call themselve Christians. Discernment from the Holy Spirit is the gift real Christians are given.
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 11:21am@broker101. Every word in the Bible is true. Those of us who believe every word in it have no problems with content or context. As a whole the Bible is a very simple roadmap for life. Westboro,like many other “churches” disects the Bible and only respects those portions they like or that conform to their agenda.It saddens me that all of Christianity is looked at through a prism which is unable to weed out the non-Christians from the true believers. The Hand of God is always out to all. You have to reach out and take it. If you are not ready to put down your life, take up his cross and follow. You aren’t a Christian. You will know the tree by its fruit.
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 11:35am@deutscher, fundamentalist christians are the happiest and healthiest people I have ever met. I have no Idea where you see “ugly”fundamentalism. Gods word, while written to Israel,was given to us all. It contains examples of everything we are currently experiencing here on this earth. Fascinating! All God requires of me is the following of his commandments. When I a find myself in a situation I need help with,it is in the Bible,2 and three places. When you are able to digest that, the world makes a lot more sense. It is true we are in the end times, but we have been in them since the death of Christ.All was revealed to all men, the spirit was poured out upon us, those who accept it will have life everlasting. Those who do not, cannot be talked into it,tricked with a simple prayer recitation, or convinced. When you are ready, reach out,He is always ready.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 11:41amIt’s difficult not to notice that two kinds of people hate Christmas: Religious people and atheists. Religious people futilely work to earn God’s favor and completely miss the message of His grace through the awesome gift of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. Atheists say they don’t believe in God, but they hate God and blame Him for whatever pains they have endured in life. In both cases, these people would find a lot more joy in their lives this time of year if they would get to know Jesus. If you’re a Christian who is teaching your children that Christmas is about Santa Clause and receiving presents – don’t do that. If you’re a Christian who is teaching your children that Christmas is when we celebrate the anniversary of the day when God came to earth as the baby Jesus, who would grow up to give His life for their sins, then I hope you have a very merry Christmas!!!
“In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.) And everyone went to his own town to register. So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David. He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child. While they were there, the time came for the baby to be born, and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.” (Luke 2:1-7).
“Now it was about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. Then the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in two. And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, ‘Father, “into Your hands I commit My spirit.”’ Having said this, He breathed His last.” (Luke 23:44-46).
Report Post »C. Schwehr
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 11:43amNope, for these people it’s all about THEM and their sanctimonious hatred/bigotry. I was glad to see that their tires were slashed during their attempt to “protest” a hero’s funeral in Oklahoma.
I would thoroughly enjoy a complete blackout on any news generated by these sick, Westboro Bastards!
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 11:50am338lapua, sorry to correct you, but all God requires of you is to believe in Jesus. If you think that following the commandments is gaining you favor with God, then you’re as misguided as Fred Phelps. I’m guessing what you meant though is that Christians are conformed to the likeness of Christ, which is a lifelong process, and the more we are conformed to His likeness the more we understand that trying to follow the commandments is a good thing.
“Then they said to Him, ‘What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?’ Jesus answered and said to them, ‘This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.’” (Jn 6:28-29).
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 12:54pm@ltb, Following the commandments is the love of God. That is what he commanded you to be faithful to (the bare minimum if you wish). God is not a vending machine in which you deposit your “faith’ and good things come out. Understand the word of God, obey the commandments, and you will begin to bear fruit. The world will know you by your fruit. I didn’t come here to parrot the common misdirections that “Christian” churches submit to their congregations for consumption. I ask that you look it up. All through the Bible example after example of God commanding obedience to his word. Most times obedience is not given. Just be sure to look to the source. No man can encapsulate the Bible for easy consumption, Acceptance is only step one, true repentence is essential. Those things must be understood to be carried out. Without understanding of the source material,people are likely to fall for the “religions”ways and customs. Stick with the source.
Report Post »Sgt.Crust
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 1:11pmHey Broker101, you will be judged harshly my friend! I do not judge you, but will day this, what do you base your beliefs on? Man’s science? Got news for ya, it is flawed, just like your brain! We, as mainstream Christians, have a thing called the BIBLE, at least we have something in black and white, written by men yes, but with Divine Insperation and guidance. You see we have a superior belief system than you, because we have Jesus Christ to trust, what do you have? Nothing but junk science, that is confuscated logic and full of error, just look at your weathermen, even with all the science they have, they are only 1/3rd correct on ANY GIVEN DAY! And you think that Jesus is not written about in anything BUT the Bible I bet, and you’d be wrong there too! He is in Roman, Greek and Arabic history, and even the Koran. So, your a misfit of nature, and your gray matter is puny, your logic is fiction, and your reason is treason!
Merry Christmas to you sir, and I will pray to Jesus Christ to save your rotten soul!
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 4:03pmI just love these doctrines that teach all that is required is a “Belief” in Jesus Christ to be saved. How does one believe in being a good parent and then take no action or work to take care of ones children?
Why doesn’t the farmer just believe in raising a good crop and then sit and wait for the harvest? Why does he plow, plant, fertilize, water, and weed? Does he lack belief in farming? Did God not create the laws of the universe that govern both farming and salvation? All these people running around shouting “I’m a Christian! I’m a Christian! and nothing more required than a belief. What would you think of people that went around claiming “I am righteous! I am righteous! and yet when you look at their life you see no evidence of righteous works? Christ did not just come to the earth and die for your sins. He spent his entire life as an example of how we should be living our lives. He gave us the commandment to love the neighbor as thy self. How do you love a hungry neighbor and not give him food to eat? Just tell him to believe that he has been fed?
How about the following passage:
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, In as much as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Why did he not just say teach these hungry, cold, and thirsty to believe in being warm, fed, and clothed and over their life time they will receive all they need?
A follower of Christ is one that actually follows his example and obeys his commandments. Faith without works is dead. By their fruits you will know them. You can run around shouting to everyone that you are a Christian but without the fruits of Christian works nobody cares. Jesus showed us who he was by what he did. You show us whether you are a Christian or not by how you live your life.
The doctrines you teach about only a belief is needed are the type for those with itching ears that want a doctrine of ease that absolves them of their earthly responsibilities. These are not correct and ignore the laws that God created to govern all that is his creation.
I am glad farmers don’t share similar beliefs about producing food.
Report Post »JESUS-IS-LORD
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 5:02pmYou have to be born again to go to heaven.
Report Post »The only chance you have to walk the golden streets or walk through gates of pearl is to come to Christ and believe in faith and turn from your sin and have faith to trust the Savior.
And when you do that, God imparts to you His divine nature and regenerates you into a new creature and writes your name in the book and you have been born again!
That’s the only chance you got. Have you been born again?
The ones that are not born again are those who post comments based on selfish human thoughts which contradict the divine wisdom of God’s Law, the Bible. Amen!
ltb
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 6:33pmNeofan, if you are working for your salvation, you have no salvation at all. If you say you do not sin, then you are a liar, which is a sin. Without fail, people who go around talking about how you have to follow a bunch of rules to be saved are the most loveless, mechanical people on the face of the earth. You completely miss the point of the law (i.e, to make you aware of your own sinfulness) when your focus is solely on following the law. Not only that, it seems like it would be really difficult to even be aware of your own faults when you are constantly examining the faults of others.
338lapua, I think we’re of one mind. That is as long as you believe it is God who removes sin from the believer and not the efforts of the believer. True believers do not follow the law, because our focus is not on the law our focus is on Jesus who helps us express the intended outcome of following the law, which is love. Every single law in the Bible is intended to make people considerate of others and less selfish. When Jesus comes into our hearts, he helps us become considerate of others and less selfish. He helps us to love as he works on us from the inside. The law can never make someone love another person, it just makes that person go through the motions of doing things that a loving person would do when they are being considerate and selfless. That being said, I do not know anyone on earth, including myself, who is completely unselfish in every aspect of their lives. My own experience has shown me, though, that true believers are very selfless and empathic people, or at least selfless and empathic people in the making.
I have to go get ready to meet my family… MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8).
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8).
“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, ‘You shall not covet.’” (Romans 7:7).
“’Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?’ Jesus said to him, ‘”You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.”’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘”You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.’” (Matthew 22:36-40).
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 7:13pm@LTB: Where is the post in which I said I was without sin? Where do you see any posts from me where I claim to be a Christian like you and so many others? Where did I say that works are how you get to “Heaven”? I believe that when Jesus said Love the neighbor as thy self he meant to actually love by doing and not just have nice thoughts about them.
I simply disagree with your doctrine. You can quote all the scripture to me that you want but you have yet to give me an explanation of why Christ gave so many commandments that are not meant to be followed.
Report Post »I disagree with your interpretation of the Bible. I believe he lived his life as an example of how we should use our time. He taught what should be done and he showed by doing what he taught. I think its wrong to teach a doctrine that emphasizes only “Belief” in Christ and that somehow the commandments of God are “Just a bunch of rules”. Please explain how the ten commandment is just a bunch rules? Should they be called the Ten Suggestions? Explain how you get “Saved” and then ignore the ten commandments and then go to heaven?
NeoFan
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 7:34pmLTB you said to 338LAPUA: “If you think that following the commandments is gaining you favor with God, then you’re as misguided as Fred Phelps.”
If you are correct then what did Christ mean in John 14:23?
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
It seems to me that your statement directly contradicts this verse of scripture.
Report Post »Caffeinated Texan
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 8:22pmBroker: You obviously never sought to understand Christianity. That’s fine. We are free to find the faith, or even lack of faith, by which we choose to live our lives. What separates myself (a Christian) from you (I guess an atheist. Certainly a disdainer of religion) is not that I believe and you do not. What separates us is that I want you to remain free to make your choice, and you wish to have my freedom to make my choice taken from me.
Why don’t you go make your hateful statements about people of faith and conservatives to an audience that wishes to hear them? Huffington Post and Daily Kos have comments sections as well.
Report Post »Taquoshi
Posted on December 24, 2010 at 11:23pmBoogieman, have you read the books of Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy lately? There’s alot more than just 10 Commandments in there. And quite truthfully, if you mess up even one of those six hundred and thirteen or so laws, you’re just as guilty as if you committed mass murder. So, if you actually haul out a Bible and check the Book of Romans for the following verses (1:18-22; 2:11-12;3:19-23 and 6:23) Yes, I cherry picked the verses because I’m making a point. And the point is – celebrating or not celebrating Christmas, having Santa Claus or not having Santa Claus, exchanging gifts on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, or January 6th are not the things that will determine someone’s final destination. Bottom line is each individual’s relationship with Jesus Christ (which I have been given to understand that Mr. Phelps does not believe in) and His atonement for their sins. On that, I believe people will stand or fall.
Mr. Phelps and Company are making a big show of how righteous they are. And since we live in America, they have the right to do so. However, I do hope that he has all his little ducks in a row because as a “minister” of the Gospel, or teacher of the law or whatever he fancies himself, he’s going to be held to a higher standard than most. I wish him luck with that.
And about the Christmas “story”, it’s a story. Like so many other things in our lives, it was embroidered and edited and changed over the years as people moved away from reading the Bible. Same thing with St. Nicholas who later was morphed into “Santa Claus”. I’m not going to use the historical events as a baseball bat to beat someone into believing the way I believe. Sneering at them or judging them isn’t going to improve the situation either. Sound Biblical teaching is the only thing that will address the issue. Mr. Phelps may be doctrinally correct, but his methods leave a lot to be desired. I’m not talking about “ticking” people’s ears with what they want to hear, but simply bringing them to a place where they can understand what one is trying to say. Mr. Phelps does a fine job of emphasizing man’s sinful nature. What he misses is Christ’s atonement.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 25, 2010 at 12:18amNeofan, if you realize you’re a sinful human being and are relying on good deeds to get into Heaven, instead of Jesus dying for your sins, you will go to Hell. Also, to ask me questions about Jesus, but tell me I can’t quote scripture to back up my answers is like asking someone about “A Tale of Two Cities,” but telling them they can’t quote Dickens.
The Bible says all of your good works are like filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6) and again, I will refer you to Ephesians 2:8, which says we are saved by grace through faith and not by works. Furthermore, the Bible says that the law was a tutor, which teaches us that we need a savior by showing us we are sinners (Galatians 3:24-26). If you look at even the Ten Commandments (forget about the entire Mosaic Law in Leviticus and Deuteronomy) and say you have never broken any of those commandments, you are a liar. The good news is that if you realize you’re a liar, you’re half way to realizing you need a savior and if you realize you need a savior the almost too good to be true news (i.e., gospel) is that you’re only a prayer to Jesus away from receiving eternal salvation. Once you get saved he will help you with the rest, I promise.
The things I said to 338lapua are very plain to a believer; however, you will never be able to understand such things in your present state, because you are dead inside. You have no relationship with God, so we have no common frame of reference. Until you understand who Jesus is and accept his gift of salvation, nothing I could say about what he taught us will make any sense to you whatsoever. If you believe Jesus only came to earth to teach men how to live, then you are calling him a liar, because he said he came to earth to deliver man from our sins (John 3:17).
If the Bible tells us that we can keep all of the law except one point and be guilty of breaking the entire law when we fail to keep that one point, how can trying to mimic Jesus’ exemplary life deliver you from your sins? I can pretty much guarantee you that you sin on a regular basis, as do we all, and as I pointed out above, there is no way you have gone through life without breaking at least one of the Ten Commandments. That being the case, you are guilty of breaking all of God’s commandments and you will be punished with eternal separation from God for having broken those Commandments, UNLESS you are willing to accept Jesus’ death on the Cross as the punishment you deserve for having broken those Commandments. The gospel (i.e., the almost too good to be true news) is that Jesus lived a perfect life you could never live and died on a cross as punishment for your sins if you will only tell him that you accept this awesome gift.
You asked me about John 14:23, but you don’t even know Jesus, let alone love him, so anything I tell you about that verse will just sound like “blah, blah, blah.” Consider this though… look at the Phelps clan, who claim they follow the Commandments of God, and look at how mean, cruel and void of love they are, then look at Jesus’ life and you tell me if you think that these people’s hate-filled lives reflect the life of Jesus who allowed himself to be crucified for the sins of others. I can’t imagine Fred Phelps sacrificing a kind word, let alone his life for another human being.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 25, 2010 at 12:20amAmen Taquoshi, well said!
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on December 25, 2010 at 2:57amAgain LTB you ignore what I say and continue to recite your doctrinal pablum. God is not the author of confusion. Your doctrine makes no sense. Keep saying it over and over but it still makes no sense. Why is it that you directly contradict what is written and expect anyone to make sense of that?
I’m sure you are a great person and have many friends but have you noticed that they tend to shy away and leave the room when the subject of religion comes up?
Admit it, your doctrine does not work for you. How many nights have you spent reciting the prayer of jabez over and over and nothing happens? Vein repetition ring a bell?
I have a friend that is in churches like yours. At least 10 or 12 over the last several years. Her spiel sounds very similar to yours. “Your not saved so you can’t understand the bible”. Sounds like the church before Martin Luther. Her life is a mess and yet she feels she can speak to me with authority on the subject of religion.
I don’t take financial advice from the homeless and idle. I don‘t take moral advice from those that make their living off the widows mite and I don’t take advice from those on religion unless I can see that it has born fruit in their life.
Maybe your life is different but I don’t really know who you are and what your life is like. All I have to go on is things you say like that I told you that you cant quote scripture. Thats not what I said. I was simply making the point that you try to site things to make your point and so far they have each been a non sequitur.
You have every right to believe as you do and thank God we live in a country that allows us that freedom. However I think you are projecting when you accuse me of claiming to be saved and not really being saved.
I am sure I am much more of a sinner than you. Hello? I never claimed to be Christian or a non sinner or Saved as you keep try to accuse me of. Do you understand?
and How would you know my standing with God? You know nothing about me. This is what most people hate about “Christians”. You think you know that I am going to hell.
I do not worry about my salvation. The God I believe in is perfectly just. I will get exactly as I deserve. My God does not burn infants in eternal hell fire because they died in their infancy or lived in remote China in the third century BC. If God decides to be merciful to me I will be humbled and weep. I am sure there will be some wailing and gnashing of teeth as well. I am totally ok with that.
My heart tells me that you are not quite so comfortable with your standing with the almighty. Your passionate plea to me sounds like your own desperate hope for the mercy of God with your own eternal judgment.
Report Post »Jsh1284
Posted on December 25, 2010 at 4:17amI’m not going to jump into this debate, but I just wanted to throw something out there …
Jesus fulfilled the law. We are to try and keep it, however the fact is if we BREAK any of the laws of Moses, we are forgiven if we repent and confess our sins. You will however be punished for your sins with or without repentance. It may take time, but you will most certainly pay for what you’ve done according to its severity. If you continually break the laws, I can attest to the fact that those punishments will be more severe in due time. So to those who think those who break the law will get a free pass, you’re wrong. You can’t just sin and get away with it. HOWEVER Jesus’s death fulfilled the law .. so you can no longer actually go to hell for your trespasses as long as you get right with the LORD. That’s what fulfillment means.
Report Post »MsUnderestimated
Posted on December 25, 2010 at 4:58amWhen I see this vile group, why do I always envision that group of fools that was led into the cave, only to die later, by the doomsday freak “pastor” in the Poltergeist 2 movie?
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 25, 2010 at 11:21amNeofan, I’m sorry you don’t understand the truth, but as I said, it’s because you are spiritually dead. When you say I’m contradicting the Bible by quoting scripture, it’s because you obviously don’t understand the Bible. I get the impression that you’ve skimmed over the Bible, or have read a few passages, but have never spent time studying it. Regardless, I can prove you don’t understand the Bible with one question: How do the Old Testament and the New Testament relate to each other? If you truly understand the Bible you will be able to answer that question in one or two short sentences.
As far as God answering my prayers, He answers them on a regular basis. As a matter of fact, I used to be amazed that God was actually listening to my prayers, but that was when I was an immature Christian with a hard heart. Now, after years of experience I expect God to answer my prayers and for that increase in my faith, I am truly grateful to Him. It’s funny you would bring up the prayer of Jabez, because no doubt someone like you assumes Jabez’ prayer was selfish. If you knew Jesus and understood the Bible, you would realize that his prayer was very selfless.
Yes, Neofan, you will get exactly what you deserve and for that I honestly pity you, because you will not be welcomed by Jesus after you die, you will go before God the Father who will sentence you to Hell when your name is not found in the Book of Life (Revelation 20:11-12). You’re dead now and you will remain dead unless you invite Jesus into your heart to breathe life into your dead soul. You are correct about saying you will weep and gnash your teeth after going before God, but Jesus will not be there to wipe your tears. On the other hand, I will not be judged, because Jesus has given me the gift of eternal life. I don’t think that, I know that and within 100 years time you will also know what I’ve said is true. If you hate me for telling you the truth, sorry, but I would think you would be grateful, especially considering how easy God made if for you to avoid Hell.
You are so full of pride that you not only think your worthless efforts to please God are enough to earn you a place in Heaven, you refuse to even acknowledge that you sin. Do you really think the same God who threw Satan out of Heaven for his arrogant pride would welcome a human being into Heaven, when that human has the same arrogant pride as Satan? On a side note, Satan hates it when people quote the Bible too. One final question… why do you think God sends innocent infants to Hell?
“Professing to be wise, they became fools,” (Romans 1:22)
“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: ‘I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.’ Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.” (1 Corinthians 1:18-25)
“Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is ‘the Book of Life.’ And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.” (Revelation 20:11-12).
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.” (John 5:24).
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 25, 2010 at 11:31amPS Neofan, you never answered my question: If the Bible tells us that we can keep all of the law except one point and be guilty of breaking the entire law when we fail to keep that one point, how can trying to mimic Jesus’ exemplary life deliver you from your sins? Since I’ve tried to answer your questions, maybe you could show me the same courtesy.
Report Post »paperpushermj
Posted on December 25, 2010 at 11:38amInteresting family. I look at the picture and see a few young adults and wonder what happens when/if they bring a friend over to visit. I have a feeling that incest is best for this family because what they stand for is not appealing to rational people.I just worry about the young kids ….that’s all
Report Post »Jsh1284
Posted on December 25, 2010 at 12:23pmI don’t think you guys saw my post. That’s pretty much the most widely accepted viewpoint on the law as a Christian. Well, by anyone who studies the word. You can try to be like Jesus .. even if you break the law .. because you’re forgiven for your sins when you repent. Once you repent, you’re cleaned. You will however be punished for your sins either way .. however you are clean and pure once you confess just like Jesus was his entire life!
BTW .. it’s actually a WHITE CHRISTMAS in CENTRAL ALABAMA!!! This is the first White Christmas of my life! Heck it only snows maybe once a year here and NEVER this time of year! Awesome!
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on December 25, 2010 at 3:12pm@ LTB: Again to answer your question, I never said anything about being saved or being able to keep the law perfectly and that getting me to heaven. That is your involuntary vomiting of your scripted doctrine that you try and use to convert people. I find it amusing that you are so arrogant that you think you have the ability or authority to determine my position with regard to salvation. Your lack of understanding of the scriptures keeps you from understanding that you do not have the power to know the hearts of men as Christ did. You don’t have a clue as to why Christ lived. We all know he died for our sins! Duh! Hello! But what did he live for? You minimize his purpose by only focusing on his death in your death worship cult. His life had purpose. The purpose was to set the perfect example for us to follow. Our purpose is not to pretend to be righteous like him but to try and be similar in our treatment of our fellow man. Is a fathers example to his children of no value? Apparently in your faith it has no value. Why even try to be a good husband, father, or neighbor if everything you do is nothing but filthy rags? Just as you ignore the importance of the life Jesus in your doctrine you ignore the purpose of the life of men in the same wicked doctrine. The biggest point Jesus was trying to make with his example on this earth was that we should wear out our life in service of our fellow man.
Report Post »Your doctrine teaches that everything we do is worthless and a vein attempt at winning God’s favor.
Your doctrine teaches that all is needed is the one prayer, the one work, the one ordinance of the alter call and then you are done. What a selfish doctrine indeed. You say I’m not saved but you have no knowledge of whether I have recited the one prayer, the one work, the one ordinance required in your doctrine for eternal salvation. You think I’m not saved because I disagree with you? Show me two of your churches that agree with each other on anything.
You said that I don’t think your prayers get answered. I do think you get answers. That is reflected in your goofy understanding of God and the Bible. Your getting answers from somewhere. The same voice that convinces you that you can know the hearts of men. I have a pretty good idea where that voice is coming from.
Your condescending tone towards me and others that you deem dammed to hell is why people hate some evangelical Christians. This holier than thou smug god loves me and not you attitude that is just plain revolting. Christ was nothing like that. And since you don’t value his life or how he treated others that explains how you can delude yourself into thinking that heaven is only reserved for you and those like you.
I’m dead inside? No my friend its your self serving false doctrine that is dead.
The true gospel has been given to bring joy to men not to be used as a club to beat others over the head with.
Come to think of it you would know the true gospel or the truth if it beat you in the face.
Repent. Repent and pray for the Truth my friend.
ltb
Posted on December 26, 2010 at 3:13pmNeofan, I have been trying to carry on a conversation with you and you have been talking AT me. I read down to “vein [sic] attempt at winning God’s favor” and didn’t read any further, because it’s obvious you haven’t understood a word I’ve said; otherwise, I wouldn’t have to keep saying the same things over and over again. You may be a sadomasochist who enjoys provoking complete strangers into hating you, but I am not. Regardless, I will respond to what you wrote up to the previously mentioned point, even though I am repeating myself.
Once again, Jesus lived the perfect life that people could never live in order to fulfill the Law and He died on the cross as punishment we all deserve for having violated the Law. Furthermore, I have acknowledged that trying to be like Jesus is something every Christian should strive for: HOWEVER, if you try to live such a life on your own without Jesus dwelling in your heart, or to the exclusion of his atoning sacrifice, your attempts are futile. Finally, I tried explaining why following the Law for following the Law’s sake will never allow a person to express love, which is what Jesus demonstrated as the embodiment of the Law, but it is obvious my words are falling on deaf ears, blind eyes and a hard heart.
I could speak until judgment day about Jesus with you, but it’s apparent you have no desire to know Him or understand Him, so I am wasting my time here. Contrary to what you may believe, I don’t enjoy arguing with people about their need for salvation. I understand I am a lowly messenger with no power whatsoever to change your destiny. The only prayer I have based on this encounter is that someone who reads our discussion will be able to see the truth, will turn to Jesus (i.e., repent) and will receive the awesome gift of salvation, which you have trodden underfoot as something common. Our “job” as Christians is not to make un-believers believe, it is merely to tell people, who do not know Jesus, about Jesus, so they can get to know Him and then go tell others about Him. At any rate, your obnoxious personality is a little bit more than I care to deal with, so I will leave you to your fate. Goodbye and MERRY CHRISTMAS!
“If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.” (Mt 10:14-16).
“You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” (Jn 8:44).
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on December 26, 2010 at 10:57pmLTB: Contrary to what you may believe I have enjoyed our conversation. Sorry if you were provoked into hating me. I really do my best not to take away peoples free will by controlling their emotions but I guess sometimes it cant be helped. Please Keep reading.
I am a strong believer in free will. I actually think God gave it to everyone here. Crazy idea huh?
I also believe he gave us the example of the life of Jesus as a guide of what we should strive for when exercising said free will. This is where we differ in our opinions.
I see the cause and effect relationship of the exercise of my free will in the lives of those I come into contact with. Mostly with my own children. When I make choices that are in line with the way Christ lived his life it is better for my children.
This to me is a concrete way of trying to follow Christ. If this is the road to hell then at least my children wont suffer as a result. They know what motivates me to try and follow the example of Christ. My love for them.
I think I do know Christ because I think he would be looking to the example of his father in heaven for a guide to raise the children he loved so much.
What would Jesus do is a great slogan but seems kind of empty if there is no work or action behind it.
I take full responsibility for my actions including my emotions in reaction to folks like yourself.
When I have a hard time dealing with my interactions with friends, family, or others I get down on my knees and pray for help. That choice works well for me. The choice to just react doesnt work so well at times.
The Gospel I believe in is one of responsibility for my actions. I don’t believe in one that says say a prayer and leave everything in Gods hands because he is in control. If that was the case then why did he give me hands and a brain?
My gospel is one that is a partnership between me and God. He is the teacher and I am the student. I try my own way and it doesnt work and he shows me why and tells me what to change to do it right. I see life as a classroom.
He is my parent and wants me to have everything that he has but first I must learn to use my free will to always choose what is right.
When I can do this then he can trust me with all that he has.
Your way sounds so much easier. Just say a prayer and accept him and all your behavior changes. Nice.
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No worries. My new gospel is working just fine. I am a better husband, father, and friend.
My new choices that I have learned through my relationship with my father in heaven are working better.
I am a better man than I was but still have a very very long way to go.
Its not always easy but nothing in life worthwhile ever is.
My experience in life has taught me that their is no free lunch.
Good luck to you. I like your passion. Maybe you are not luke warm. That is a good thing.
NeoFan
Posted on December 26, 2010 at 10:59pmOh and one more thing LTB. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to You.
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