What’s Going on in F-22 Fighters That’s Causing Pilots to Choke, Even Blackout?
- Posted on February 29, 2012 at 1:31pm by
Liz Klimas
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One of the most expensive weapons produced by the U.S. military, the F-22 Raptor, was grounded in May and again temporarily in Oct. 2011 due to problems with the oxygen system. Even after a lengthy investigation, the Air Force is still not completely sure about what’s going on.
(Related: Here are the five most expensive military weapons on Earth)
ABC News reported in January that from 2008 through 2011 there were 12 cases where pilots experienced ”hypoxia-like” symptoms, which can include inattentiveness, blackouts and even seizures. It was these symptoms that caused all the F-22s to be grounded in May 2011 for investigation:
After an intense, nearly five-month investigation, the Air Force said it could not figure out what could be making the pilots feel the effects of hypoxia and cautiously sent the birds back into the skies in October.
But the Air Force told ABC News the problem persists — in the 6,000 sorties flown since the grounding, pilots have reported another eight instances of suffering “hypoxia-like symptoms.” In each of the new cases, the pilot followed proper procedures, returned to base and landed “without incident,” the Air Force said.
More recently, ABC News reported three more incidents within the last two weeks where pilots have not been getting enough oxygen to the brain while in flight.
Wired reported Lt. Gen Herbert “Hawk” Carlisle, the Air Force’s deputy chief of staff for Operations, Plans and Requirements, as saying the Air Force has “looked at everything on that system at the nth degree” and still can’t find the root cause. Still, Air Force Times reports that the agency believes that it has at least pinpointed several contributing factors.
Last year, it was thought perhaps coolant was leaking into the oxygen system, preventing air transfer to the pilots. Wired reports Carlisle saying that a potential leak alone was not the problem but, perhaps it is “an interaction between contaminants and the materials in OBOGS that the service has yet to uncover”:
Also, a problem has been found with the a valve connecting the oxygen system to the pilot’s mask. So when there’s a problem, the pilot may not have adequate warning or enough time to respond. Investigators have also previously pointed toward toxic nitrogen as a possible culprit, but this seems unlikely now.
As the investigation continues, Wired says that planes are still flying but at lower than recommended altitudes and with backup oxygen systems.
Issues with the oxygen system is believed to have lead to the death of Captain Jeffery Haney in Nov. 2010. Wired reports that examination of the black box on the plane revealed that Haney had tried to turn on the emergency oxygen system.
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Comments (63)
Viper1
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 9:05amCall me a conspiratorialist but the Current Administration is doing everything possible to stop this plane from flying. They are trying to justify not manufacturing the greatest plane that we ever invented and I think that this is another excuse to build a fighter two generations back the F35. When they built the P51 the first plane was not a piece of junk, but not far from it after replacing the engine with the Rolls Royce Merlin it is know known as the greatest plane ever built. Once President Nobama is gone maybe somebody with good sense will revive this marvelous aircraft. All flight problems have resolutions and this will be no different.
Report Post »RedDawn2012
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 8:00amMethinks their G-suits are just not up to handling that wild and crazy bird.
Report Post »The Jewish Avenger
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 10:35amI was wondering about the G-Suits and some form of the “bends” but this is just a throw out idea.
Report Post »wntsmallgov
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 2:40amThe F22 can pull more G’s than the Human body can take. Our guys are pushing the limits as fighter pilots should. But it can be deadly
Report Post »Wolfram
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 10:43pmAnyone want to guess how many chinese made parts are on this bird and specifically the O2 system. May not be the finished item, but the components and circuit boards are
Report Post »Atokaite
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 9:19amNO Chinese parts. I helped design this bird. NO CONTRACTS WERE LET TO ANY Chinese.
Report Post »Semper FI
neocon1
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 12:06pmGood damn job sir…….Semper Fi :)
Report Post »Conservitive Ticker
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 7:45pmSimple Science. What happens to a liquid in a bucket when you spin it in a circle with your arm. The very minimum force that is applied holds the liquid to the bottom of the bucket. Blood is a liquid. When your traveling at supersonic speeds in a F-22 the blood in your head is forced to the back of the brain increasing in pressure while the front of the brain is losing its oxygen supply. Compression suits are not 100% effective at pushing the blood flow back to the brain. The deprivation of oxygen to the front portion of the brain leads to Hypoxia and black outs. Besides some pilots have a hard time or forget to breath when they hit a certain number of G’s because they are to busy concentrating on flexing and holding there core muscles required for pull high G maneuvers. The F-22 estimated top speed is Mach 2.25 that‘s roughly 1500 mph that’s a lot of force being applied to a to 3 pounds of grey matter. Actually the brain weight roughly 6 pound traveling at 1500 mph due to the G’s.
Report Post »Tooler17
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 9:45pmMr Ticker. You are a bit, well… wrong. at 1,500 per hour, your brain weighs as much as it does at 0 miles per hour. Only during acceleration and deceleration do you feel additional (or lesser) G forces. Also, other fighters pull the same amount of G’s and it has not been a problem in the past. Yes, pilots do occasionally G-lock, but that is not what is happening here. It was a noble effort on your part, you were just a bit off. G-day.
Report Post »Lt_Scrounge
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 11:34pmSounds to me like they are having problems similar to what they were having when they initially fielded the F16. Pilots were blacking out and even crashing and no one could figure out what was causing it until a Colonel came forward after a practice flight and told the flight surgeon he had lost consciousness temporarily during the flight. The flight surgeon pulled his ticket until a LOT of medical tests were done. It turned out that the plane was capable of maneuvers that the produced more G forces than the human body could withstand even with a G suit. The ended up putting limiters on the aircraft to keep it from turning as quickly. That solved the problem. There may also be a problem with the oxygen system, but I’d check into the maneuvers that were being performed at the time of the blackouts first.
Report Post »Conservitive Ticker
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 1:19amTooler17—Whatever Dude! I‘m talking weight as effected by G’s. 1 G the plane sitting Idle on the Tarmac. A plane traveling a constant speed of 1500 mph has a g-factor of 1.98 or thereabout, which affects the measure of the object traveling at that speed. I know it doesn’t physically alter the weight of the brain.
Report Post »TIKRITONE
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 11:58amActually Ticker, there are no acceleration related Gs during a constant velocity. If a constant 1500mph induced 1.98 Gs then the shuttle pilots would be dead going 17,000 mph.
Report Post »Tooler17
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 12:18pm@Conservativeticker… OK, only because I am mildly entertained am I even tackling this. It does not matter how fast you are going; 0 mile per hour, 500 miles per hour or 1,500. Unless you are accelerating, decelerating, turning, (which in reality is decelerating), or in the initial pull or push of a climb or decent, you are experiencing only 1 G of force. Just because you are going fast does not mean you are “pulling” more G’s. Have you ever been in an airplane? Most commercial jetliners travel at somewhere in the neighborhood of .8 mach. When you get up to go to the bathroom (once they let you… straight and level), you are experiencing the same amount of G forces (1 G) as you do when you are sitting on the tarmac, even though you are going much faster. Speed does not equal Gs. Dude.
Report Post »Tooler17
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 12:54pm@Conservativeticker… Only because I am mildly entertained am I even tackling this. It does not matter how fast you are going; 0 mile per hour, 500 miles per hour or 1,500. Unless you are accelerating, decelerating, turning, (which in reality is decelerating), or in the initial pull or push of a climb or decent, you are experiencing only 1 G of force. Just because you are going fast does not mean you are “pulling” more G’s. Have you ever been in an airplane? Most commercial jetliners travel at somewhere in the neighborhood of .8 mach. When you get up to go to the bathroom (once they let you… straight and level), you are experiencing the same amount of G forces (1 G) as you do when you are sitting on the tarmac, even though you are going much faster. Speed does not equal Gs. Dude.
Report Post »LouC57
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 5:50pmMaybe their monitors need to have a “breathe” button that forces more O2 into the helmets?
Report Post »mustang-2537
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 4:41pmThe problem, as I see it, is in the design itself. It boggles the mind that after so many decades developing these sophisticated planes, such basic problems happen. The military wants one plane that will do everything for its defence department. So, every time a new plane is developed, it is designed from scratch. It is an obsession of the US to be the tops in technology and scrap anything that is a decade old. Where do you think all those F-14, F-15, F-16 and F-18s are ending up? A multi-billion dollar graveyard in Tucson. Also, look at the costs of these new planes. How many billions were blown away on the B-1? How many times was it used in combat where a B-52 would do the job?
Report Post »Belchfire V-8
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 5:55pmHey genius, the last B-52 was built in 1962. How long do you want that airframe to endure the flexing and twisting ? Metal structures get old and suffer from cracks and metal fatigue. You liberal JERKS want our air crews to fly ancient bombers and 2nd class fighters, so that you can waste TRILLIONS on B.S. that the government has no business doing ! I spent 25 years in the military, many of the working on tired obsolete planes, while welfare creeps live a higher lifestyle than I could.
Report Post »Mivoyses
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 9:25amActually this is directed to “BELCHFIRE V-8″
While we spend billions of dollars creating only a few of the latest and greatest, our adversaries are the same for a whole boatload of 2nd class or older technology. A plane can carry only so many missiles, even the best and newest. What do the pilots of these marvelous creations do when they end up facing more planes than they have missiles for?
Report Post »Maybe you, and our leaders, should look to history for an example. The Germans had the best weapons and tech during WW2, specifically armor (tanks). They didn’t do all that well when facing 3 or 4 times their number in “inferior” weapons.
TIKRITONE
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 12:05pmMINVOYSIS, they kill all the enemy they can then land and get more missiles for the turkey shoot. If we ever had a scenario again where our enemy put that many planes in the sky that we couldn’t exceed with missiles I would be surprised. If they had that many planes they would probably be junk and we would be shooting them down 100 miles before they even saw our planes.
Report Post »Viper1
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 3:58pmIt amazes me at the attitude of some of you people on the left. We tried this policy before. Lets say WWI and WWII. We sat on our hands and told the world just leave us alone. Well, stupid look where that got us. We ended up in the wars anyway and had to develop many weapons that got a lot of Americans killed because we built something already obsolete. Lets look at the Sherman tank. It’s nickname war the Tommy Cooker. Because it ran on gasoline instead of diesel and the Germans had better guns that lit them on fire every single shot, killing numbers of British and American soldiers before we simply built so many that the Germans couldn’t kill them fast enough. If we had developed a better weapon during peacetime then we might have saved many of those lives lost during the war. If you people keep thinking backwards America is doomed. I am so glad for those of you that gave part of your lives to our military just as I did. Maybe if we still had a draft then at least more of our young people would still get why we develop new weapons rather than depend on old technology to defend us. I am so glad that we aren’t still defending America with swords and bows. That up close and personal stuff really doesn’t work very well. Oh, by the way, My 7mm Magnum will defend my family what are you going to defend yours with?
Report Post »Krutch
Posted on March 3, 2012 at 3:19pm@myvoisis
Report Post »Actually the germans did beat all those hoards sent against them. Their real downfall was the failure from the top,(Hitler, ect.). The russian hoard only overpowered the german war machine when they could not resupply depleated materials/manpower. The german war industry continued to advance their weaponry throughout the war. Had that war lasted another year, the outcome may have been different. Had Hitler started that war a year later than he did or let his war industry develope without his interference the ‘miracle’ weapons he talked about might well have turned that war in his favour.
The idea of the B-1 and newer weapons is to not have to use them. If you liberals could see into the real world, you might realize that it is better to scare off evil than to have a battle with it. The neighbourhood bully avoids the people that can beat him up. Unfortunetly, you libs always think one can talk their way out of any mess. But that only creates bigger messes which someone else has to clean up!
VanceUppercut
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 4:38pmIs there anything that you people won’t claim is part of some evil plot by Obama? My toaster’s been on the fritz lately, I‘ll bet it’s that Obama trying to deny me my right to properly toasted bread!!!
Report Post »eagle275
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 10:08pmTake your “stimilus” and buy a new toaster, made by a Komrade Obama union. Opps, maybe that‘s what’s wrong with yours!
Report Post »EchoHawk
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 4:22pmApparently there are a lot of out of work aeronautical engineers.
Report Post »TheBurningTruth
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 4:21pmSeriously guys…. I love to blame President Marxist for everything too as I believe he’s intentionally destroying the US and replacing it with another “workers paradise” but really! There is NO WAY Barry and the Bandits have the knowledge to do anything like this, they’re too stupid to even see the connection between hard work and success. As for the “Chinese parts theory” that just shows how ignorant most people are of sophisticated feedback control systems.
I worked for 30 years in Silicon Valley, 20 years in Ethernet technology, 10 of those years in Gigabit. There’s a single chip that costs less than $2 in volume, with so many feedback loops and digital control systems that it took years to figure out how to make it work. Customers would come back for a year or two with some new behavior that nobody knew about that we’d have to debug and correct. That technology is nothing like a 5th Gen Fighter plane. In the end, they’ll find some systems interactions that nobody knew was there, and it WILL NOT be Chinese parts.
However, I WILL agree that Barry’s efforts to cut the defense budget have negative effects including insufficient funding for very advanced systems.
Report Post »pissed MARINE
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 4:17pmAs an aircraft mechanic in the Marine Corps, I have your answers for this problem rigth hear-
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYLPoTNnKAk
Worldsapart
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 12:44amHilarious. Awesome.
Report Post »thegreatcarnac
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 4:09pmIt is the ghost of the F18….hiding in some of the F22 cockpits and turning off valves.
Report Post »JEANNIEMAC
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 3:58pmIf any of the parts were made in China, it is very possible they were defective, either unintentionally or intentionally.
Report Post »misteryuck
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 3:25pmSabatage maybe? Current admin does not like the F22??? Just guessing. Wouldn‘t put it past ’em.
Report Post »crazytalk
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 3:06pmSomething off-gassing, or bio mechanical. I’m sure they have oxygen warning systems.
Report Post »Knucklenose
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 3:06pmhow often are pressure suits checked or replaced
[sorry if this is a double post, the initial one wasn't popping up]
Report Post »Knucklenose
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 3:01pmno doubt its been checked, but how long does a pilots pressue suit ‘live’?
Report Post »hellonfish
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 2:59pmParts are made in China, they have figured that out yet.
Report Post »corbecket
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 2:48pmLow standards of selection in the pilot ranks? The less airline jobs out there, the older the cockpit talent. These guys/gals ain’t as young as they used to be.
Report Post »Quagaar Warrior
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 2:34pm~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Report Post »It’s the Andromeda Strain!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GUT_CHECK
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 3:00pmbet me buckwheat.
Report Post »its the chinese made computer chips and boards.
how stupid of us to trust them with those pieces.
skurk
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 2:24pmCant be so hard…. 1: it’s global warning 2: It‘s Bush’s fault.
Report Post »Ruler4You
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 2:37pmThis “IS” a hidden function of the subsystem. Designed to be activated in combat, discretely, by us, after the world fills their air combat needs with the F-22.
Pretty cool, huh?
Report Post »Jack H
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 10:35pmOk. Global warming is causing the oxygen system to vapor lock. And this is W’s fault because he should have seen it coming.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 1:54pmLikely that sub contractor’s parts made in China
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 1:47pmI wonder if Obama’s agents have been sabotauging the matter so he has a reason to have the project killed completely.
Report Post »brandongentile.wordpress.com
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 1:54pmWith this President, I would definitely not put it past him. He will do anything to push forward his agenda. Although Im sure he didn’t have anything to do with this directly, you can be sure he does indirectly (i.e. budget cuts).
Report Post »grassroots
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 2:00pmI have the answer and Obama’s agents have nothing to do with the F-22 Naptor Problems.Are they made over seas? Probably. So there you have it.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 2:07pmEither the current administration .. or where parts are made .. like Chinese dog food and drywall.
Report Post »eagle2715
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 2:47pmThat would require several wrench turners in the Air Force to be complicit…..not happening….Not to mention the entire maintenance department to be oblivious…Also not happening…
Blaming **** like this on Obama is 9-11 truther territory…
Report Post »The_Almighty_Creestof
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 1:40pmMaybe they inhaled some remaining vaporized goose particles from the plane in front of them?
Or another instance of lowest bidder gets the contract before going into cost overruns to line their pockets.
Report Post »Apple Bite
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 1:39pmIt’s a cheap ass Chinese part preventing them from breathing correctly, mark it down. The Chinese have done similar before, sneaking cheap parts into our inventory, thanks to budget cuts and when they come up faulty, the Libs look around and say “Wha? Wha’ we do wrong?”.
Report Post »30mmgunpilot
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 1:54pmOr a cylon virus…
…Seriously though, with today’s airframes as “integrated” as they are, a snafu with a processor can affect any and ALL kinds of things…things you wouldn’t have ordinarily have thought as being something tied into the computer. I wonder if the back up oxygen system their talking about is a “stand-alone“ system not tied to the ”net”.
Whatever it it, they need to get it fixed. Fast.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 1:55pmSorry, you beat me to that. Didn’t mean to step on your originality.
Report Post »grassroots
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 2:03pmBingo! You just won the intelligent prize for the correct answer. Because I know nobody in our government is that smart to figure it out. It is so obivous!
Report Post »USAMEDIC3008
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 2:15pmA Snafu can be fixed worked around
Report Post »However if its Fubar ,Back to the drawing board