‘Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus’: Controversial Viral Video Logs 10 Million Hits in Four Days
- Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:05am by
Dave Urbanski
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It’s the poem about Jesus versus “religion” that’s lighting up the blogosphere at a dizzying pace.
“Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus” by spoken-word artist Jefferson Bethke has received more than 10.2 million YouTube views as of Saturday night since it was posted just four days ago, eliciting more than 100,000 YouTube comments and plenty of debate elsewhere on the Internet.
You can check it out here:
Why all the hubbub? Its message—which Bethke wrote “to highlight the difference between Jesus and false religion,” according to its YouTube entry—is striking a chord with viewers. Love it or hate it or something in between, it seems impossible to not have an opinion about the controversial, hip-hop styled clip.
Here’s more from the author on the YouTube page:
In the scriptures Jesus received the most opposition from the most religious people of his day. At it‘s core Jesus’ gospel and the good news of the Cross is in pure opposition to self-righteousness/self-justification. Religion is man centered, Jesus is God-centered. This poem highlights my journey to discover this truth. Religion either ends in pride or despair. Pride because you make a list and can do it and act better than everyone, or despair because you can’t do your own list of rules and feel “not good enough” for God. With Jesus though you have humble confident joy because He represents you, you don’t represent yourself and His sacrifice is perfect putting us in perfect standing with God!
There’s plenty of praise for the piece. JacobAngieWard’s YouTube comment (“I hear your heart and praise God he used you to bring hearts and minds to think about him”) was common. But others ridiculed it, even adding spoken-word video replies.
Bloggers have posted mixed responses.
Tony Jones, a theologian of note in many evangelical circles, didn‘t care for Bethke’s line of reasoning:
It’s cool to be pissed at “religion” when you’re 20. I get it (though I can’t say I ever went through this phase). And then, as you age, you realize something: Religion is simply the social and psychological framework by which human beings organize their experience of the Divine…And it’s not bad that we do this. It is, Mr. Bethke, inevitable.
Others, such as Nadia Bolz-Weber, were more sympathetic:
I believe in participating in sacred traditions that have a whole lot more integrity than anything I could come up with myself. I believe I need someone else to proclaim the forgiveness of sins to me because I cannot create that for myself. I believe that Jesus is truly present in the breaking of the bread and that where 2 or more are gathered he is there. That’s religion AND Jesus. May God make us worthy of it all.
Bethke, a Tacoma, Wa., resident, has been following the frenzy and had this to say on his Facebook page Friday:
If you are using my video to bash ‘the church’ be careful. I was in no way intending to do that…The Church is Jesus’ bride so be careful how you speak of His wife. If a normal dude has right to get pissed when you bash His wife, it makes me tremble to think how great the weight is when we do it to Jesus’ wife. The church is His vehicle to reach a lost word. A hospital for sinners. Saying you love Jesus but hate the Church, is like a fiancé saying he loves his future bride, but hates her kids. We are all under grace. Look to Him.
The following is a transcript of Bethke’s poem. What do you think?
What if I told you Jesus came to abolish religion?
What if I told you voting Republican really wasn’t his mission?
What if I told you “Republican” doesn’t automatically mean “Christian”?
And just because you call some people “blind” doesn’t automatically give you vision?
I mean, if religion is so great, why has it started so many wars?
Why does it build huge churches but fails to feed the poor?
Tells single moms God doesn’t love them if they’ve ever had a divorce?
But in the Old Testament God actually calls religious people “whores”
Religion might preach grace, but another thing they practice
Tend to ridicule God’s people, they did it to John the Baptist
They can’t fix their problems, and so they just mask it
Not realizing religion’s like spraying perfume on a casket
See, the problem with religion is it never gets to the core
It’s just behavior modification, like a long list of chores
Like, “Let’s dress up the outside, make it look nice and neat”
But it’s funny, that’s what they used to do to mummies while the corpse rots underneath
Now I ain’t judging, I’m just sayin’, “Quit puttin’ on a fake look”
’Cause there’s a problem if people only know that you’re a Christian by your Facebook
I mean, in every other aspect of life, you know that logic’s unworthy
It’s like saying you play for the Lakers just because you bought a jersey
See this was me, too, but no one seemed to be on to me
Actin’ like church kid while addicted to pornography
See, on Sunday I’d go to church, but Saturday gettin’ faded
Actin’ as if I was simply created to just have sex and get wasted
See, I spent my whole life buildin’ this façade of neatness
But now that I know Jesus, I boast in my weakness
Because if grace is water, then the church should be an ocean
It’s not a museum for good people; it’s a hospital for the broken
Which means I don’t have to hide my failure, I don’t have to hide my sin
’Cause it doesn’t depend on me; it depends on him
See, because when I was God’s enemy and certainly not a fan
He looked down and said, “I want that man!”
Which is why Jesus hated religion, and for it he called them fools
Don’t you see it’s so much better than just following some rules?
Now lemme clarify: I love the church, I love the Bible, and yes, I believe in sin
But if Jesus came to your church, would they actually let him in?
See, remember he was called a “glutton” and a “drunkard” by “religious men”
But the Son of God never supports self-righteousness; not now, not then
Now back to the point: One thing is vital to mention
How Jesus and religion are on opposite spectrums
See, one’s the work of God, but one’s a man-made invention
See, one is the cure, but the other’s the infection
See, because religion says “do,” Jesus says “done”
Religion says “slave,” Jesus says “son”
Religion puts you in bondage while Jesus sets you free
Religion makes you blind, but Jesus makes you see
And that’s why religion and Jesus are two different clans
Religion is man searching for God; Christianity is God searching for man
Which is why salvation is freely mine, and forgiveness is my own
Not based on my merits but Jesus’ obedience alone
Because he took the crown of thorns, and the blood dripped down his face
He took what we all deserved; I guess that’s why you call it “grace”
And while being murdered he yelled, “Father forgive them; they know not what they do”
Because when he was dangling on that cross, he was thinking of you
And he absorbed all your sin, and he buried it in the tomb
Which is why I’m kneeling at the cross, saying, “Come on! There’s room!”
So for religion, no, I hate it; in fact, I literally resent it
Because when Jesus said, “It is finished,” I believe he meant it
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Comments (817)
junior1971
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:14amJesus, he’s my friend.
Report Post »Unix
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 7:34pmJust read Mathew 6-9, this should be quite revealing to you all. This kid, is just that, a kid, who has a lot to learn yet. But at least he has created some conversations…all of mine were wiped clean from this forum, along with A LOT of other good (and bad) comments, why? One can only wonder…
Report Post »Unix
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 7:39pmOh, my, I now see all of my posts, so I stand corrected…I guess the comments are coming in so fast, they have moved the 1st page down…my bad Blaze.
Report Post »The UFP
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 8:50pmYou are correct, this kid only holds a part of the truth. Those clinging to a partial truth can cause destructive acts through emotional intentions. But he has sparked the conversation, and the communication is what will fix America. Compromise should be off the table. Diverse communication to reach consensus is the answsr. A simple concept, too deep for most to understand.
The United Foundational Party –
Report Post »The Tea Party and OWS will unite – it’s just a question of when.
snooop1e
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 9:30pmJesus didn’t establish a religion he established a church (Matt 16:18) and He promised that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against it. This video finishes with Romans 4:5 but Pauls letter to the Romans has 25 chapters and he said a lot. Peter warned that Pauls letters were difficult to understand and the ignorant and unstable would twist them as they do other scriptures to their own destruction (2 Peter 3:16) So if you read all of Pauls letter to the Romans you get the fullness of his message. Later in Romans 8:4 Paul writes “And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law MIGHT be fully met in us, WHO DO NOT LIVE ACCORDING TO THE SINFUL NATURE but according to the Spirit.” Here Paul makes it VERY clear that the requirements of the OLD covenant law might be fully met in those who DO NOT LIVE ACCORDING TO THE SINFUL NATURE but according to the spirit. Don’t be deceived. Also in his letter to the Galatians ( Galatians 5:18-21) Paul tells us ” But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this WILL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. People love to quote verses from Romans out of context. Don’t be deceived. God Bless….
Report Post »PATTY HENRY
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:48pmSon, copy this, fold it up , put it in a box and in 30 years when you have some maturity, read it again. Jesus told Peter to “ Build My Church on THIS rock”….it was the humans who divided up the church, making a mockery of many branches, but part of growing in CHRIST is fellowship, worshiping and learning to live together, praying for and caring for one another. I finally came to THIS ROCK a decade ago after being in Henry VIII’S faux religion for a life – time… it is the finest thing that has ever happened to me. Maybe at this point in your life you don’t feel a need for Church or Religion, but you don’t understand what it is. Jesus, first of all, would never had told Peter to build His church had it not been necessary.
Report Post »vbemis
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:52pmKarl Marx said it best “Religion is the opium of the masses.” What he meant by that statement was that people will suffer the injustices on earth for hope that there will be a reward when they die. They take a leap of faith and rather than fight for justice while they are alive they opt to live out their days like blind little conservative sheep who will not have their beliefs questioned. They allow the rich to exploit them and believe that it is God’s will that they should live a meager existence while the rich are laughing all the way to the bank. Conservative thinking is a rigid thought pattern and can not be swayed from the belief that a reward will come from God in a supposed afterlife. Read your history. Centuries ago the Kings were not religious but insisted that the masses be religious. They did this because they knew that religious people were easier to control and less likely to rebel no matter how much they were exploited. It is no different today. The religious right wing is going to allow the rich to own all the resources and control all of the money in this country and world wide. Why would the religious right do this? They do it because of some misguided hope that they will get their reward in heaven. Wake up people, believe what you want but while you are being nice little docile conservative sheep the rich are in the process of eliminating the middle class!!!!
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 2:10am@VBEMIS
Just read all of your posts.
Did you room with JZS at the seminar?
Report Post »mauijonny
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 2:34amI think what a lot of you are missing is that he’s talking about religion – religion, as many of you seem to be understanding it, isn’t just Christianity….Additionally, many of you are making his point by arguing about who’s more right. Bottom line, wherever two or more of you are gathered in His name, there is a church.
Roots of the word church: In the earlier Greek It was pronounced “ku-ri-a-kos“ or ”ku-ri-a-kos.“ The meaning of ”Ku-ri-a-kos” is understood by its root: “Ku- ri-os,“ which means ”lord.“ The Greek ”kuriakos“ eventually came to be used in Old English form as ”cirice” (Kee-ree-ke), then “churche” (kerke), and eventually “church” in its traditional pronunciation.
I also suggest that you all do your homework on other biblical root words (like the root of the word “religion” and note that “religion” is rarely mentioned in the Bible, and is even referred to as “man-made”).
Report Post »1morebeliever
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 3:05amTHE THIRD ARCHON
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 6:43pm
@JB.KIBS
I don‘t mean to say that Jesus wasn’t a real PERSON–that was quite probably true, I doubt the entire account of the New Testament was just SPONTANEOUSLY FABRICATED; no, I’m sure the oral histories that became written gospels some two hundred years afterwards, and coalesced into the Bible we know today after a series of Roman councils, following Christianity’s widespread success it was decided it was important to actually decide what it is that Christianity WAS, so I’m sure they had some inspiration from real world events.
Nevertheless, you have no evidence to presuppose the miraculous claims of Christians are any more likely true than, say, Hindus, or Muslims who say that ALL of the prophets of the Jews and Christians, including Jesus, were messengers of God, but that God spoke one more time to Mohammed, and then has since ceased speaking to humanity.
Ahh…this is a typical response by a non believer rooted in ignorance, desperation and denial.
Report Post »Fact: No other book besides the Bible has had to stand up to more scrutiny, been more criticized and less understood.
For the atheist or non believer, your life is staked on the Bible whether you agree or not. You hope it is wrong about the nature of reality and that it is wrong regarding one God and that it’s text has been altered over time. It’s your desperate need to hide a rebellious and diseased heart behind prejudice and misunderstanding.
The Third Archon
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 5:35am@1MOREBELIEVER
Report Post »“For the atheist or non believer, your life is staked on the Bible whether you agree or not. You hope it is wrong about the nature of reality and that it is wrong regarding one God and that it’s text has been altered over time. It’s your desperate need to hide a rebellious and diseased heart behind prejudice and misunderstanding.”
No, you are still thinking in religious terms–more beautiful than morality with God, is morality without god. To behave morally when one “knows” a divine god is watching, waiting to judge and punish you, is, hardly commendable–it is compulsory. Just as men’s compliance with the law is not laudable, but rather their civil duty if the law be just. It is far more praiseworthy for the skeptical man, who nevertheless finds grounds in reason and compassion to seek the good, with or without god’s existence or coercion. God is not self-evident, and “his” human intermediary’s have failed to offer evidence which is persuasive, or can be corroborated by sources independent the faith. My position is merely one of reasonable skepticism–if anything approaching what we imagine “god” is, is real, then it must be a being more alien and impossible to conceive than we begin to understand. I can stand before god and give an account for why my actions were sensible, and how I sought what I was able to tell to the best of my abilities was the good–can you do the same?
decendentof56
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 6:17amJust read these posts!
Look at all the disagreements!
You agree on almost nothing!
Organized religion is the cause of so much turmoil in the world.
All these posts remind me, once again, why I stopped attending church.
There were so many hypocrites at church.
Look at the Catholic church. There are pedophile priests, and many parishoners voted for a president who sanctions abortion. Those of you know who you are. You are typical of the hypocrites I speak of.
Look at Islam. “You must convert or be killed.”
Phooey to all of it!
At least I had the good sense to realize “religion” is an individual experience.
That is what the young man in this video is saying.
000degrees
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 7:29amThis is a response from my parish priest. My hope is that everyone could experience what this man brings to the table. Worth a look…
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLF7yJOBn78
Miyegombo Bayartsogt
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 8:15amJesus, he mows my lawn for a lot less than Ralph from across the street. Jesus also offered to fix my wiring too, but I declined and let him do some minor carpentry instead. Jesus may be an illegal, I pay him cash and don’t ask questions about his friends with gang tattoos.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 10:21amHe brings up a lot of good points. First let me get the whole “religion and war” thing out of the way he mentioned. That is totally false and a brief review of history shows it quite clear that the largest and most persecuted of all time are Jews and Christians.
Now onto his poem,He brings up some very good points most of them I agree with. However we seem to forget what Jesus is really about… grace and mercy. For example, David. He was considered a “man after God’s own heart” but he committed atrocities that are worse than some of the worst Kings in the Bible.So how could that be? However, it was David’s repentant heart and willingness to yield to God (sincerely) in every detail of his life. We seem to forget we are all sinners and screw ups, we’re continually making mistakes and growing in Christ. However, we are not saved by our actions or by anything we could do or have done but we are saved by mercy and grace. We are called to emulate Christ and think of others before we think of ourselves. I we were perfect we would not need Christ.
One final note that I find interesting reading through “Luke”. The criminal next to Jesus on the cross. Before his death he declared that Jesus is Lord and savior. He believed in his heart and confessed with his mouth and Jesus assured that he would be in heaven. Also, endorsement of sin and sin with repentance are a huge difference. We all sin, are we endorsing our sin? It is the heart and only God knows our true intentions.
Report Post »MetalPatriot
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 11:46amIsn’t it great how everybody here is arguing for religion? This really shouldn’t bother anyone, it’s a great lyric of his own story…that’s all. It’s not a theological debate. It’s not a claim of “new revelation” or prophecy. It’s just a young guys song. That’s all.
Wow…sheep one and all. I’m more concerned with my own heart & life than criticizing some stupid poem. Let’s live it. Isn‘t that what it’s about?
Hollywood
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 1:53pmThe biggest problem with Christianity, is Christendom. Organized “Religion” standing between Christ and us. This is EXACTLY what Christ predicted in the End times,as per His Sermon on the Mount, and the first 3 Chapters of Revelation. TRUE Christianity is NOT a religion! It is a PERSONAL relationship between each one of US,and our Creator,Sustainer,Saviour. ALL others are religions of MAN!. Jesus is coming BACK to reclaim this world, which is now under the control of the god of this world,satan! When something bad happens, place the blame on the one in control,at the moment-satan! Jesus is coming to to reclaim this world and remake it! BE READY! Google the Daniel Project for details!
Maranatha
Jinglebob
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 2:31pmAs a group, the only ones who have remained steadfast to the wishes of God and the teachings of Christ, is the Amish. There are countless individual exceptions to this statement but as a whole; meekness, humility, keeping from the World, God centered life, good works etc. Organized Christianity has departed from the path. Myself encluded.
Report Post »dantanner2000
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 3:42pmA friend sent this to me to view. The whole youtube “viral video” thing is new to an old duffer like me. I thought it was good. It didn’t strike me as a bash of the church/ Jesus bride, but more of a truthful comparison between a genuine relationship with Jesus and the attempts of man to imitate “religion” that had some basic mechanisms without a vital/faith link…sort of nuts and bolts, do‘s and don’ts, without the presence of the Spirit. Keep on challenging the world to consider the life changing encounter with our living Lord. I hope His return will be soon.
Report Post »JohnnyMidknight
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 3:53pmYou know… we are all missing the point. I know he is young, but his words speak volumes of wisdom. Again, he is not bashing the Church, he is not bashing Christ… He is speaking of religion. He explains the misconception of the Church when he states:
Because if grace is water, then the church should be an ocean
It’s not a museum for good people; it’s a hospital for the broken
Which means I don’t have to hide my failure, I don’t have to hide my sin
He is speaking to those evangelicals that exclude based off of a persons transgression. It is not the Church that does this, it is religion. He is pointing out our flaws. He is Muslim, he must burn. He is Christian he must die. He is a Jew, he must pay. Religion is the issue.
Christianity is not absolved of its transgressions, but Christianity is not always what Jesus taught. Jesus’ word was to embrace the other religions, the sinners, your brothers and sisters. Love he thou he does not want to be loved. Acceptance of diversity and praising God for the life we all have. We are supposed to be living testaments to the word. Yet religions builds these huge churches (in the physical sense) with money that should be for caring for the poor and the weak. Did Jesus take on pious men as followers? No Jesus took on fishermen, tax collectors and poor men. He took the hated of Jewish society. The same ones that many religious zealots push out today. Is this Christianity? Is this Jesus? No, it is religio
Report Post »JohnnyMidknight
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 4:40pmSee, Jesus did not like the religious pious because they kept them out of the Church. Lepers, prostitutes, the sick, criminals, thieves, the poor… They were pushed out of the grace of the Temple based on society and being sinners (for the most part).
“Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
The issue is not that the rich man is rich, but that they scorned their fellow man. Jews believe that God scorns people that break the commandments and rewarded those that held them true, not in the life after but as they lived. Just read the book “When Bad Things Happen to Good People”. Jesus saw this and saw it as the root of the problem was religion. This is why he spoke against the preachers and the leaders of Jewish society. The rich felt they were blessed amongst the poor, after all God blessed them with success and riches.
What Jesus was against was the self-righteousness of the highly religious versus the sinners, sick and poor. This is why Jesus taught compassion. Not that we should give everything in some liberal sense of equality, but to show love and respect to one another. Help the poor, not necessarily give them all your money – but help them live. You can teach and assist. Our job is to look past their sins and see them as equals (as we all sin). Our job is not to judge them and condemn them of life.
Report Post »DaphneBF
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 6:05pmDont let Church members turn you off of Jesus. ( He is telling Church members to ‘check them selves’not put on a mask or be pious) Churches should be filled with people who try to be like Jesus. And see others as Jesus does. Religion is wrong–we CANNOT earn our way to heaven as some s seem to say. He isnt justyifying Sin. Jefferson has overcome bad habits that are not Jesus like, thru Jesus. Its a relationship.He loves sinners. Dont be afraid,non-believers to go to a church that is filled with Christ Followers. BE someone that is if you consider yourself a Christian. AndDont be a Sunday only Christian, or put yourself up on a pedestal. You can NEVER earn your way.JESUS already did that for you.Know HE can help you by his strength to overcome sin. Only Him. To Believers he says Share your weaknesses honestly, to overcome them. Thru Him. You cant do your own. You need to turn to Jesus. You will NEVER be perfect. Only JESUS IS.
Report Post »jaf12975
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 7:26pmi agree with the “kid” he is right. the church that we now today as a hole dose not do the work it should, nor has it done so in history. we all sit here making the statements about the “kid” being young, or how people need to read the bible, i say remove the tree trunk from your own eye first before you try to remove the splinter from another. don’t just read the bible then judge others. understand the bible and live that way. i am personally sick of walking into churches and seeing a bunch of bench warmers who claim to be christian and then go home and get drunk. listen to what the “kid” is saying and understand it.
Report Post »jaylew
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 8:32pmMy son has a degree in youth ministry from Geneva College in western Pennsylvania …although I am protestant and his mother is catholic….because of “her” he had to attend catholic school when he was younger…..my son now much older…and really doesn’t have too much nice to say about any denomination of organized religion. He is now an active part of “Young Life”…and is a happy…nice and peaceful 26 year old man who does not make much money but loves what he does. I too despise most organized religions…they are phony….they are arrogant…and worst of all they are judgmental of every one else who does not fall within their “guidelines”….and so this: You atheists and skeptics spend a good portion of your existence belittling and talking down to those folks who find the belief in a higher power as something real….and it will be that waste of energy in your own lives that will cause your expiration to end up with complete and total nothingness….but for the folks who have become so enamored with their religion and piousness…let me say this to you….the youth of today are genuinely sick of your oft judgmental and finger pointing religions as well….and this kid on this video is not as some of you so smarmily point out…a person who only sees “half the truth”…..in fact this kid is just like millions of decent kids on earth. And your old fashioned religion is simply just not true enough for them to find peace in. In fact your religions suck.
Report Post »Wojciech W.
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 10:19pmforget jesus, i follow Musashi and his book of five rings. And in that book, his teachings do more to set my path then the bible. In so a young man stating what good is religion if it starts wars? This infantile young man is just that. Religion NEVER started a war, MEN start wars. Guns don’t kill ppl. PPL kill PPL! SUV‘s don’t kill ppl. PPL kill PPL! The path is clear, the young have fantasy’s based upon where they are raised. Crap like this is only spoken in clouded places. America has a very thick Vail over its eyes. Us, who have seen reality know that everything comes to an end. America WILL end, but I pray for the sake of my children that the idea of an “REPUBLIC” lives on in their hearts. For they will rebuild when this collapses.
“The primary thing when you take a sword in your hands is your intention to cut the enemy, whatever the means. Whenever you parry, hit, spring, strike or touch the enemy’s cutting sword, you must cut the enemy in the same movement. It is essential to attain this. If you think only of hitting, springing, striking or touching the enemy, you will not be able actually to cut him.”
― Miyamoto Musashi, The Book Of Five Rings
“Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men.”
Report Post »― Miyamoto Musashi, Book of Five Rings: The Classic Guide to Strategy
Mizurax
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 11:58pmFor all of you Christians who are saying how confused or wrong this guy is, why don’t you view some of his other youtube videos? You’ll see that he does indeed “get” it. Perhaps it is you that is in need of some self-reflection.
Here’s a video of this guy speaking to a group of middle schoolers about David & Goliath. Take the time and watch the video, and then reassess who’s confused.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3dlZDLmJH4&feature=related
Report Post »VII
Posted on January 17, 2012 at 2:13ammatthew 7:21-23 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!
1 John 3:4-6 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
colossians 3:17 17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.
matthew 6:33 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
matthew 25:10-12 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.
11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
if Jesus does not know you even if you come to him saying Lord,Lord, are baptized and ask forgiveness, one may want to ask them self if they will reach the kingdom of god. many do not see that you need to turn your life over to him
Report Post »VII
Posted on January 17, 2012 at 2:31amis it not based on your works when you have to stop being racist,use drugs, watching porn, required to give freely,forgive your enemy’s. and searching for everything that you do that offends our Father and quit doing it. i am still trying to understand how that is not based on your works.
1 john 2:3-11 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
7 Brethren,[a] I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.[b] 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.
9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
Christians should question all the lust,wrath,envy, greed,and everything else thats involved in Christmas, politics,sports, movies and anything else in
Report Post »JohnnyMidknight
Posted on January 17, 2012 at 9:37am@ VII
I can in know way show you answer. That is between you and God (or Jesus). Each path is different. However, my feelings are that the scripture talks of those who claim Jesus as Lord and simply do did for entrance.
We are to do the did because we care and love for our brothers. It matters not that we are sinners, as we all are. The world’s worst sinner would be granted access to Heaven once they have found the truth in their heart and let the works of Jesus found within to flow. Much like Tebow! He doesn’t do the acts for entrance into Heaven. He does the Lord’s work for the love and happiness it brings him and the ones he touches.
I am in no way saying he is a saint, nor saying he will go to Heaven (as it is not my judgement). He is simply put the living testament of what Jesus taught (from what I have seen so far). I think most criticize him due to the mirror in which they have to look at themselves. Tebow stands for everything they scorned. It hurts to see the love and light of the pure so they try to extinguish it.
In many regards it is the same with Glenn Beck. Many throw stones for dramatically opposite reasons, however the root is the same. Both Glenn and Tebow are in the grace of God. Both took different routes, but both truly get what the word of God means. Which is why they are attacked by those that live in darkness. The darkness simply wants all to live in darkness. The light of love shows them the error of their ways.
Report Post »JohnnyMidknight
Posted on January 17, 2012 at 11:50amWhoops! Typo! “No” not “know”
Report Post »VII
Posted on January 17, 2012 at 3:46pmFrom studying it looks much harder than just believing him and asking forgiveness of our sins, and I fear many that do believe stop at those points (me included) and never take the time to realize the meaning of repenting sin. No one can be flawless but to practice lawlessness is to practice sin. He does not say repent and sin some more but repent and sin no more. Just from my interpretation it would appear in the end many that believe Jesus is the son of our Father (including me) are not going to the kingdom
If it was as easy as repent (say you’re sorry) and believe as many of us do in this day why would we have so many warnings
Matthew 7:13-14 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 5:29 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
It may be near imposable to never sin but more and more we justify sin by saying no one can be perfect, movies are American, the pride of sports does not count, or Santa makes the kids happy so it’s ok to lie to them. God wants us to be involved in politics so that pride, wrath, lust is ok.
Report Post »it sounds easy, but in practice very difficult to reach our Fathers kingdom.
EmmJaa
Posted on January 17, 2012 at 7:56pmI hope this young man soon learn, he doesn’t religion, he and many others hates what they wrongly understand to be religion. Most of us are born into a religious denomination and are commonly taught to be anti-other. We come into contact individuals that can either drive home our inherited beliefs or cause us to reshape or redefine our beliefs. The problem with all of it, we have gone to over 35,000 flavors because somebody said, ‘I can do this better.’ Saddest of all, we commonly observe others who claim to know God that are self-serving hypocrites.
Report Post »Certainly, it is reasonable, to say, ‘Enough it should not be that complicated. I can do this better on my own, in my own time, and I don’t have to go sit somewhere.’ Nonetheless, mankind’s universal first and foremost responsibility, before family, work, friends, etc is to seek God’s truth. Because he is an infinite God, and we are not, this is a daunting task and it is also reasonable to recognize that without this lifelong pursuit we are sliding backwards.
I recommend that everyone to grow up and do you OWN research. Remember one simple, common sense fact, just like all ice cream starts with milk, all 35k flavors of Christian religions have ‘some’ truth in them. Next, the Holy Bible, while divinely inspired, was not complied for several hundred years after the death of Jesus. Therefore it is also reasonable to ask, what were Christians doing during that time? Look to see what people said ou
kindheart1956
Posted on January 20, 2012 at 6:36pmThe church means the body of Christ, I have cancer and not one person from the “chruch” is helping me. I am poor and not much to give to their religious building, so I am not worth much to them. This kid knows what he is talking about, you vipers and snakes! Get behind me you devils in the name of JESUS! You pharisees and sadisies! Be the body of Christ not what you are!
Report Post »adisciple4jesus
Posted on January 31, 2012 at 12:47pmThe Truth is his works reached many in the act of Love for Jesus, and I pray many turn away from their ways, because the time is near. I share this with you all (http://www.endoftheage.info/2012/the-prophet-rafael/) in hopes it also turns many away from the lie. We need to open our hearts and minds, because no sign will be given to this generation. One thing is clear the Bible is Truth, either you see the Truth or not really does not determine revelation.
Report Post »Mrmom
Posted on February 2, 2012 at 5:20pmBelow is the Definition of religion. You see it is a man made thing not God. God is the church not religion.
Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.[1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe. They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature.
The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system, but religion differs from private belief in that it has a public aspect[citation needed]. Most religions have organized behaviors, including clerical hierarchies, a definition of what constitutes adherence or membership, congregations of laity, regular meetings or services for the purposes of veneration of a deity or for prayer, holy places (either natural or architectural), and/or scriptures. The practice of a religion may also include sermons, commemoration of the activities of a god or gods, sacrifices, festivals, feasts, trance, initiations, funerary services, matrimonial services, meditation, music, art, dance, public service, or other aspects of human culture.
Report Post »junior1971
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:13amJesus is just allright with me, Jesus is just allright oh ya………………………….
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:14pmIn 1972 that song hit #34 on the charts.
Report Post »In 1969, “Oh Happy Day” hit #4 on the charts.
SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 10:51amThe Christian Charity of all of these “true Christians” is quite astounding. Christ taught love, not hate.
It is shocking to me when presented with evidence that the Catholic Church did not change the Ten Commandments, that you continue to spread this nonsense.
Pagan roots? Let me get this straight. You will believe some nut who writes a trashy book, but never actually go to the source. Aren‘t you the slightest bit curious that all of this wild stuff you’re spreading might not be true? I challenge you to find out – really, research this and not just from non-Catholic sources.
You are intelligent and devout Christian people. What would the motivation be for someone to teach you angry lies about the Church? Who would have something to gain for causing the spread of hate and disunity? Think about it. Pray about it.
May God Bless you all and lead you to the truth. I ask this through Jesus the Lord.
Report Post »Diane TX
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:12amThoreauHD
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:33am
Jesus might have something to say about this.
“And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it.”
If Hell won’t prevail against it, I doubt humpty dance will.
_________________________________________________
I hope that you realize that Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church. All the other Christians are protesters (Protestants); refused to acknowledge the authority of the Pope (Lutherans); and all the other Christians that couldn’t abide by what Jesus Christ, himself, set in stone. There are so many different variations of “Christianity”, that are based on some disgruntled Christian Leader – who wanted a cafeteria plan of their religion. The rules and regulations for all the different Christians border on the ridiculous. There are rules of no dancing, no birthdays, no holidays, and the Mormons’ claim that ONLY 144,000 names are written in the Book of Life. Some Christians only make an appearance in their Church on Christmas and Easter.
As a Catholic, I was taught that one could pray to God anywhere. There wasn’t any need to go to a physical building.
Report Post »uncleeddie
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:41amThe 144,000 thing is not the Mormons it is the Jehovah Witnesses. Mormons believe that their church is the restored original church of Jesus Christ; so the way that I see it is; that is either the Catholics or the Mormons that right.
Report Post »rtist542010
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:46amYou are absolutely wrong. What you are reciting is Catholic Catechism which is worlds apart from the Bible, Gods inerrant word. In fact the word catholic did not even come into existence until hundreds of years after the crucifixion.
Report Post »Grannie4news
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:47amThe statement you made about “Mormons” is not true. I believe that would be the Jehova Witnesses
Report Post »which they take what is written in Revelation. But we DO believe that we can ask forgiveness directly to our Heavenly Father in prayer and not go to confess to a middleman. Jesus dying on the cross would be in vain wouldn’t it, if only 144,000 were going to be saved? Don’t puff up in pride there too much Dianne, the Catholic Church has taken away so many scriptures that have been written, that they decided the people shouldn’t see, it is shameful. You should read some of the Dead Sea Scrolls and other ancient manuscripts you might find out that if a baby dies without being baptized, he will go directly to heaven. Oh, and baptism is by immersian just like Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist. I believe the sprinkling started with Constantine. Anyway, I think that we all have free agency to worship God and Jesus in whatever we feel in our hearts is correct and not to judge others. That is God’s duty not ours.
rtist542010
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:48amRevelations clearly explains that the 144,000 are the jews that convert during the tribulation.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:55amIt’s niether.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:57amIf God has spoken, why is the world not convinced?
Report Post »pazzo242
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 3:16amDiane–As a practicing Catholic I always find it in poor taste that we flaunt the “first Christian church” thing in other Christian faith’s faces. This is something we believe and accept but other Christians do not, so be it. Does it matter who was first? As long as we accept Christ Jesus as our savior and the reasons he came to Earth that is all that matters. In each and every Christian faith the bottom line is still the same, it is just how we worship that is different. I love Jesus and know that I will be with him when he comes to judge us all—-and that, Diane, is the essence of our Christian faith.
Also when you attempt to quote other religions please do your homework so you don’t make the rest of us Catholics look like elitist idiots–as you have been corrected the 144,000 is the Jehovah Witness belief.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 3:18amThe 144,000 are Jews, males and virgins.God will have a remnant people of the seed of Abraham (the Jews) when the time of the Gentiles is finished.Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.
Report Post »pazzo242
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 3:35amMACPAPPY–I don’t know how you missed it because the world is convinced; it’s just you and the small handful of your fellowatheist who are not convinced. The vast majority of the world believe in a supreme being–Christianity, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu and a variety of other religions ALL believe in God (4.1 billion), they just have a different approach.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 3:52ampazzo242
Report Post »I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours
RepubliCorp
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 5:39amMy **** is bigger than your **** That is why this young man strikes a chord
Report Post »Detroit paperboy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 9:39amJust reading all these angry and accusatory and vitriolic posts , confirms all i need to know about religon… Everybody thinks theirs is correct, theirs knows better, theirs is the wat to the afterlife…… I love my one on one relationship with the creator…. And i think the kid in the video has somewhat of a point…
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:20amYo Detriot Paperboy:
Report Post »You’re post are a little confusing to me (sorry on my part)
You say you got a “one on one”… how do YOU know you got the right “ONE”?
StonyBurk
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:36amI was not born a Catholic. I understand–and agree in part with what you hope others agree to. My question is in the Scripture you cite it is declared “Upon this rock” I will build My church….”
Report Post »The question is was Jesus of Nazareth declaring to Simon Bar-Jona–that He Whom Simon Bar-Jona had just answered saying “Thou art the Christ- The Son of the Living God(v.16 KJV. ) Was Jesus declaring Simon whose name Jesus changed to Peter– Was it the man Jesus declared was the rock upon which He would build His church.Or was that rock the doctrines imparted to Simon by the Holy Spirit? the “protesters had a doctrine of Sola Scripta-Only the Scripture. The division come from the doctrines of the Catholic Church which seems claim the Pope may diverge from Scripture -and yet speak as God. i.e. what appears as current Catholic doctrine on the death penalty,as example.
When the Catholic doctrine is rooted in Scripture I can agree and will defend, when it diverges from Scripture I may understand them but will defend Scripture.
SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:45am@rtist542010
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the teaching of the Church about the bible and sacred tradition. This is no different than your pastor or you yourself interpreting scripture. Except that Catholics have a unified teaching authority, known as The Magisterium. We believe this to be passed down to our Pope and Bishops from the apostles. To say that the Catholic Church is not biblical is inaccurate. It is more accurate to say that we don‘t believe that God’s revelation comes to us ONLY through the Bible, but from sacred tradition that wasn’t written down in the new testament.
@pazzo242
Let’s not be too harsh on our sister Diane. There are many aspects of Catholicism that are unfortunately lost to our Protestant brothers and sisters, especially the Eucharist. It is a historical fact that all denominations ultimately originated from the Catholic Church, and the fact that we are different isn’t because the Catholic Church changed. It is because someone in the past decided not to follow the Pope and the teachings of the Magisterium anymore and to do their own thing. Yadda yadda. Now we are so far down the road that many of these people actually dare to say that Catholics aren’t Christians and that we are a cult. As a devout Catholic, I find this point of view laughable. Diane’s post is within that context I believe.
Report Post »NoSocialism.com
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:02amThe “Catholic Church” as we know it today was established by the Roman Emperor Constantine about 300 years after the death of Peter. Things like “The Pope” don’t exist in the Bible, this is the reason why there was a Protestant reformation of the church, they were TRYING to get back to the basics, of what Peter actually taught.
Report Post »saranda
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:02am@Bryan From Florida – Wrong on so many levels. St. Ignatius of Antioch was calling the Church Christ founded the “Catholic Church” in the first century.
Report Post »In fact if you want to split hairs, the word Christian was used by the non believers as a term of mocking. It is more likely the believers called themselves Catholic.
I know your church probably taught you the Constantine myth, but please, as GB would say, do your homework prior to accepting as fact.
SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:03amSo a lot of effort is spent quoting scripture to one another on this blog in an attempt to convince our fellow Christians how wrong they are. Back and forth.
Did the Apostles have this problem? No, in part because they didn’t have the New Testament tucked under their arm as they went from town to town. They had the memory of the teaching of Christ in their heads, and their traditions which they passed on with these teachings, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to embolden, inspire, and inform them. And they had the teaching authority given them by Jesus to spread the Gospel. Jesus never said, “Read the New Testament.” It didn’t exist. He said, Peter lead my Church.
So what’s the point of this diatribe? The point is that the living, breathing Church that wrote down the New Testament lives on. The teaching authority and traditions have been passed on. Many, many have put their heads down into the bible and have blinded themselves to this truth. A billion Christians haven’t — they read the Bible and look to a single authority to lead them to holiness. No confusion / no division.
If I haven’t totally offended you yet with my perspective — which isn’t my intention actually — you may want to inform yourselves of the Catholic view of the Bible, from a former Protestant. Great site actually.
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/bible_catholics.htm
Report Post »oneshiner
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:44amYes & no to all the posts. First: Diane, Tx. The 144,000 is the Jehovah Witness belief. However, the longer I live, the more I understand that few of us will make it to heaven, that you can put a camel through the eye of a needle easier than a rich man can get to heaven.
That’s a mystery to most of us, so I‘ve come to the conclusion that I’ll do my best, keep trying harder each day to live a good life (failing daily) but the most important thing is to Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and Love him, praise him and pray daily for forgiveness of our sins. Read the Book!
What I do see daily are the people who claim to be Christian and cheat because it’s become a way of life. Cheat on income taxes, social welfare, etc., we’re all guilty of little white lies and cheating.
Report Post »Well, duh? Ask God‘s forgiveness and don’t return to these things. We’ve all sinned and come short of the Glory, just ask forgiveness and go with God. Seems easy, but the devil is lurking to deceive us. The Devils believes in One God and trembles.
It’s not this church or that church, It’s Belief and Honor to our Lord, Jesus Christ.
Many church (buildings) leave me cold. I’d rather worship outdoors and learn the WORD not the doctrine. Doctrine divides us. It’s not what we think, it’s what God says.
guntotinsquaw
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 12:07pmAnd this is why my people never wanted churches or schools built …They teach you to argue about the Creator. I raised my children with faith, never religion. As my oldest began to search for his place, he went to many churches and came out empty and lost. Because of the churches he began to doubt his faith. I told him to take this to where the Creator lives and wait for guidance. He did this, and when he went to Green Corn, they welcomed him as brother. It didn’t matter that he inherited his fathers blonde hair, or that he was over-weight, or even that he didn’t mix faith and law. He was not raised to see homosexuality as an abomination or to put his nose in your womb, or to chastise divorce. He does not judge sin as a way straight to hell..these things are not for him to decide. He came home and said he had found the Creator, and peace. He has found the right path..He will go the way of my ancestors on the path of a redman. The Creator is for all, please do not debate him. We should not preach his words, but live them.
Report Post »P C BE DAMNED
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:21pmHe founded his church on Peters statement of belief that Jesus was the son of God, not peter who denied Jesus later.
Report Post »oneshiner
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 3:15pm@GUNTOTINSQUAW; Loved your post. Glad your son found the LIGHT. I remember mine so clearly. I was so confused about so many things and went off by myself to pray and seek God with the question as to, Who is the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost?
Well, I got an answer in a Vision (so real, I know it came from God), and every time I think I about it, I get a warmth in my heart that lets me know that, “these three are one” and I’ve never doubted belief in God since that time many years ago. Sure, I sin and fall short of the Glory, but I ask forgiveness and trust that Jesus forgives me….
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 3:23pm@Bryanfromflorida, this information is for you. The last one is in High Def.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272a.htm
http://www.allcath.org/Founders.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObcQIOQHsKQ&feature=colike
Come home, brother.
Report Post »thefbj
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 6:56pmI agree that one can be spiritual without an organized Church. The Church is a creation of man, not of God. Jesus doesn’t need people to speak for him. It‘s whenever men presume to speak he word of God that most of the World’s problems happen, because apparently some people hear different messages and that causes them to hate and kill each other. Certainly not what Jesus would want done in His name.
Report Post »Bowlz
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 7:36pmAs a disgruntled Catholic jk, former Lutheran and now a follower of Christ; I appreciate the discourse. There is a lot of Biblical truth in his message. In the same respect, I have no ill will against ‘Religion’, even though I believe it tends to take the focus away from Chirst. In the book “The Shack”, there’s a line where Jesus tells the man something along the following line, “I hate Religion, Politics and Economics because they all separate people from Me’. It’s so true. At least this guy is not luke warm. Plus, it is clearly having an effect with so many hits. As far as the Facebook comment goes about the Church being Christ’s bride; didn’t he say that he hates/despises the bride in the video? And what is up with two references to Republicans??????????? Self-Righteousness has no political identity whether your a D, R, I, L or whatever.
Report Post »gothope
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 7:49pmWhen Jesus said ” let he who is without sin throw the first stone Mary magdeline got hit in the face with a rock.Jesus turned around and said Mom sometimes you tick me off
Report Post »TheVoice1
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 7:52pmWow!!! it only takes a minute to turn some poem about Jesus into an argument about the Catholic Church, or Protestant, or Pope, or….. NUTS!!!!!
Who do you say HE is?
Report Post »boundforglory
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 8:53pmDiane, you need to get out your catholic bible and a KJV or an NIV, or NKJV and turn them to Exodus 20, or to Deuteronomy 5, they both contain the Ten Commandments. In the catholic catechism one of the commandments is missing, the second commandment has been removed, it says: You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth, you shall not bow down or serve them. NKJV. The catholic church is full of idols, (carved images). Although the catholics say: well we dont bow down or worship them, they forget the first four words of that commandment: YOU SHALL NOT MAKE… Constatine started the Roman catholic church around 300 AD, 300 years after Christs ressurection. I do not acknowledge the authority of the pope. Jesus IS the head of the church, not the pope! The catholic church is in the middle of rewriting the catholic bible so it doesnt offend anyone. If anyone is offended by the word of God, then they dont know God! The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God. 1st Corinthians 1:18
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 9:13pmSome here has made reference to the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation chapter 7 and 14.
The 144,000 is not a “Jehovah’s Witnesses thing” as if that gives anyone a license to mock the information in the book of Revelation. The 144,000 is mentioned in Revelation for a reason. If any here cannot identify who and why they are given special attention, then instead of ridiculing Jehovah’s Witnesses, why not do some study of the subject before posting a comment that only exposes ignorance.
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 9:38pmA careful reading of Revelation 7:1-17 will reveal some interesting knowledge;
First, there are the tribes mentioned in verses 4-8. Do the tribes mentioned correspond to the original 12 tribes of the ancient nation of Israel? So they do not have to be literal Jews but are “spiritual Jews”. Reference Romans 2:28-29, and Galatians 6:16
Second, in verses 9-17 we find others mentioned, others who are not a part of the 144,000 but also enjoy salvation through the ransom sacrifice of our Lord Jesus, the Christ. Can we identify these, who are called a great crowd? see verses 13-17
Report Post »tmikew33
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 9:46pmI would love to find in the bible where Jesus says he was going to establish the Catholic church. He said,” I come not to condem the world, but that the world through me might be saved.” He said nothing about any church. You are WAY WAY off…..sorry, but I’m just being honest. Neither Paul nor Peter said anything about being a pope either.
Report Post »masimo
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 9:53pmJesus did not start the catholic church, that was created by Man with man made rules. As an ex-catholic, and knowing the bible fairly well, Im sure Jesus would treat the Pope and all the false clergy like he did with the Pharises
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 9:53pm@BOUNDFORGLORY
And while you have your KJV and your RSV Catholic bible out. Remember that the Catholic Church has been teaching Christians in the faith for 2000 years. The list of ten commandments that we use is the same one we have always used — it is a catechetical summary of the commandments given to use in Deuteronomy 5:6-21 and Exodus 20:2-17 which don’t clearly list out ten. The protestants threw away the teaching of the Church and came up with their own list when the KJV was invented, probably to underscore their accusations about idolatry.
While we’re at it, let’s take a look at the Catechism, since you’ve referred to it with such authority.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
Please read paragraphs 2112, 2113, and 2214 which are all about the prohibition of Idolatry.
Let’s take a closer look at the KJV. You will notice there are several books at the end of the Old Testament missing. We call these the deuterocanonical books. They are included because this was the old testament the early church used — the Septuagint.
The Gospel writers believed in the validity of these books so much that 2/3 of their references to the old testament are to these books.
As for idols in Catholic churches, there aren’t any. Nobody worships idols, any more than you worship the hymnals, drum set, sound board, or video screen in your protestant church.
Report Post »madasblazes
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:43pmWrong, again. The 144,000 are Jews who, after the “Catching away of Believers” preach the gospel according to Christ.
Report Post »lrael
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:49pmI think you need to go back and read the book of Acts. The deciples were first called Christians in Antioch. The first Christians were Jews and Paul spread the gospel to the Gentiles. THAT was the first church!! The Roman Emperor Constantine who was a sun worshipper along with other idols established a state church that he himself was made head of (Pope). Changing the day of worship from the Sabbath to Sun day. The catholic church even changed the Ten Commandments regarding the Sabbath and the worship of idols. If there was a RELIGION stright from Hell it’s Catholicism. Jesus opened my eyes and saved me from that Regligion.
Report Post »eddie333
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:49pmSo very much of the origins of the Catholic church are rooted in PAGANISM. Rosary, Mary worship, the pope’s hat, just to name a few.
When the term “Christian” is used, I tend to think it does not include the Catholic church because of its strong pagan roots.
Babylon Mystery Religion by Ralph Woodrow. Read it, if you can find a copy
Report Post »JL320
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:57pmLOL @Diane, We are the church. Not a building, but the body of Christ, his people = The Church. Keep praying to your pope, and telling all your dirty secrets to some guy who may or may not be some child molestor. Me I’ll stick with Jesus.
sensibleadult
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:54pmThe Catholic church bears NO resemblance to the church in the book of Acts.
Report Post »Tretka
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 12:08amHi,
I am a Lutheran (of the reformed type). I follow Christ. There was no cafeteria plan at my church or cafeteria actually. I accept the Pope as the authority of the Catholic doctrine (which I also support as a fellow Christian) but under no terms do I confess to anyone but God and those humans I am directed to confess with.
As far as I am concerned, above Pope and Pastor and everyone else, I answer to God.
Just thought you might like to hear from a Lutheran. I am thinking the whole Catholic and Lutheran bitterness ended long ago? Thank goodness because though I was raised a Lutheran I do cringe when I hear about how Catholics and Lutherans of old conducted themselves at times.
Report Post »USAMEDIC3008
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 2:26amCall no man on earth father.for your FATHER lives
Report Post »in HEAVEN……
Melchizedek
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 6:42amTypical religious bigot. Jesus did not establish the Catholic church and the Mormons do not preach the 144,000 idea. You are just another ignorant person passing along something you heard and have no idea if it’s true.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 4:42pmWow, here’s a great site that provides all of the Biblical basis for Catholic beliefs.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/
Fantastic resource covering all these topics.
THE CHURCH
Report Post »The Biblical Church
Primacy of Peter
Apostolic Succession
THE BIBLE
Scripture Alone
Oral Tradition
Deuterocanon
Septuagint
THE SACRAMENTS
Baptism
Confession
The Eucharist
Confirmation
Holy Matrimony
Divorce & Remarriage
Contraception
Homosexuality
Husband’s Headship
Holy Orders
Anointing of the Sick
THE VIRGIN MARY
THE SAINTS
JUSTIFICATION
SALVATION
ESCHATOLOGY
Second Coming / Rapture
Purgatory
Hell
Zionism
THE TRINITY
Jesus Christ’s Divinity
The Holy Spirit
Messianic Prophecies
CATHOLIC OTHER
Angels
Tongue Speaking
Usury
Sacramentals
Sunday Worship
Suffering
Fasting
Drinking
Vain & Repetitious Prayer
Modesty in Dress
Just War
SCIENCE
Evolution
Geocentrism
CATHOLIC Q&A
The Church
Scripture Alone
Baptism
Confession
The Eucharist
The Blessed Virgin Mary
Justification
Purgatory
Sexuality
Miscellaneous
Freemasonry
Traditionalist Issues
jaylew
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 8:45pmPlease…………stop trying to lie. Jesus would have nothing whatsoever to do with all the frills and icons and worshiping or petitioning of “saints” to intercede on anyone’s behalf that goes on in the catholic church…..your post is preposterous….in fact please come back to this forum the next time your parish priest lets YOU pick the biblical passage of the week….if there was ever a church that refuses or dissuades its members to openly discuss the bible it is the Roman Catholic church…everything on every Sunday is all planned out ahead of time…and the sermons are so boring and so rote that most kids can’t stand them…and they only attend because mommy and daddy force them to. The Catholic church is boring…period….and based on it’s recent history of priestly molestation of altar boys…I would say that even the priests find celibacy an unachievable goal. Let me say this to you Diane TX…..the catholic faith is losing members at such a rate that if it keeps up….aside from the Hispanic membership…..the catholic church would be considered a religion in decline….were it not for the fertility rate of Hispanics…that would be an absolute fact. White catholic kids literally hate going to mass. Yeah…that’s right…i said it.
Report Post »edmundburk
Posted on January 17, 2012 at 3:42amwell said diane!
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 17, 2012 at 7:32pm@JAYLEW
Who is lying? The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ in 33 AD. Every other denomination and stripe of Christianity came from this common origin. Let’s put this into perspective:
http://www.allcath.org/Founders.htm
Like the Jews before us who honored God through an organized religion, we also have a liturgical calendar in that tradition. Jesus was a devout Jew and adhered to the structure of his faith.
http://www.catholicculture.org/culture//liturgicalyear/calendar/year.cfm
The Catholic Mass is NOT intended to be a bible study group. The Catholic Mass achieves its goal as the “source and summit” of our Christian Life. It is at once both ancient and relevant, and exquisitely beautiful. When approached with humility and a desire to deepen one’s relationship with Jesus, the Mass is about overcoming the barriers of time and space and being present with Jesus in his passion and death. Through the Eucharist we encounter him in the most intense and personal way. The fullness of this encounter is based on a proper disposition.
Jesus defeated death. The saints are not dead. They are alive and continue to be a part of the Body of Christ. We do NOT worship the Saints or Mary. We honor them, pray with them and the angels during Mass, and ask them to pray for us. They are examples of successful Christians. Why would we want to forget them?
Enough said on the rest. http://www.scripturecatholic.com/
I will be praying for you.
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:58amMost of you would probably call him a “false Christian” once you discovered he wasn’t conservative enough, but probably a moderate, or god forbid liberal, regular person.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:07amExactly, if their Jesus were to come back and say “yeah I never really believed that stuff” they would say “Oh, well you were never a true Christian then.” lol
Report Post »junior1971
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:11amSo, wmen did he mention democrats again?
Report Post »Kaoscontrol
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:17amSeems like most of the Christians that have posted here agree with the guys ‘Rap’. You ought to open your heart to the Lord and stop running from him, MOTION. He’s calling you…
Report Post »Lazier Than Thou
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:21amreg·u·lar
[reg-yuh-ler]
adjective
1.
usual; normal; customary: to put something in its regular place.
If one is to understand that regular effectively means normal, then one must then wonder why you’re suggesting that liberal people are normal. They are not normal, they are out of the mainstream.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/141032/2010-conservatives-outnumber-moderates-liberals.aspx
Number breakdown from 2010:
Conservative: 42%
Moderate: 35%
Liberal: 20%
By those numbers, you’re abnormal, not the other way around.
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:32amWhat’s considered “moderate” in this country is largely liberal–I’m not a liberal, I’m FAR to the Left of that. However, there are middle-of-the-road liberals and conservatives–it’s the general audience here that is too far to the Right, and not the great many who are too far to the Left.
The main difference from my position of extremism and that of those of many on this site, is that I do not categorically hold Leftism to be true, but rather have by degree and consideration found some, and coincidentally many in time, positions we call “Leftist” to be true. I can give coherent reasons why I hold many positions far Left of center–but I do not hold the positions for their own sake (i.e. simply BECAUSE they are Leftist).
Also majority belief does not create truth–that’s called the ad populum fallacy. The one wise man does not need anything more than the truth of his beliefs to stand upon, while the nation of fools sinks into the sand of their self-deceptions around him.
Report Post »Lazier Than Thou
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 5:07amIt was very nice of you to tear down that straw-man, Third Archon, but completely unnecessary. No one in this conversation, thus far, had suggested that people agreeing means they’re right. Instead, what was stated outright was that the majority of America is conservative or moderate, not liberal. This is not an argument based upon the truth of a position, this is an argument based upon you suggesting that “regular” people are liberal. They are not and I have demonstrated this.
I backed up my argument with solid numbers and sources. Try doing the same with yours.
Report Post »HumbleMan
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:32am@TTA
You are clearly “far left” of reason. If you do not see the lies which compose your manifesto, then you are simply deluded. You would have us all live in poverty so you can feel justified in your liberal bleeding heart that you have shown us all the “way”.
Communism is the objective of progressives, and it is unworkable. They place man above man by means of man-made law. There can be no freedom. To enforce your utopia requires a massive police state.
I am already a slave of my country’s government. A government which was never empowered to do so. You “leftists” would have me and those like me work for your sweet-sounding dreams of equality while stealing my life and efforts. Yet you feel you are better than us. You feel empowered to know what’s good for me,when in fact you have no idea who I am. You pervert science to justify your idiocy. You despise all that is good and moral. You kill babies, and call it a “civil right” to do so.
I will not be your slave. I ask you only to GET OFF MY BACK.
Report Post »StonyBurk
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:41amI understand Hell /the Grave –is full of “good people”an old joke is if a man lives he has two things to worry about -if he is sick or healthy. If sick he only two things to worry about -if he will get healthy -or if he gets worse.– If he gets worse-two worry -If he lives or dies-If he dies two worry -If he goes to heaven or Hell.If Heaven no worry –IF Hell he be too busy shaking hands with his friends to worry.Narrow is the path to salvation Broad is the path to perdition.
Report Post »shade_of_reason
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 12:50pmArchon… Please! When will you Atheists stop acting as if logic is something that only your kind posses? It is tiresome! You do not own it! You are not the only one using it! You are not intellectually superior! In fact, the chances are, that you, like many of your brothers, proclaim to be Atheist so that others will believe you are smart. You think smart people are Atheist, because you see them on discovery channel talking about physics and the universe, and you want to be like them. A little like monkey see monkey do. Why don’t you try to evolve to a higher state?
Report Post »Detroit paperboy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:14pm@4truth2all
Report Post »I dont know, and thats the point, nobody really knows, nobody….. But i dont push my little one on one relationship with what i believe on anyone, dont ask for donations, dont preach abstience then screw the alter boys, dont wear funny dresses, dont tell others how to live, i just feel that organized religion is a business… And that is one thing i do know…..
The-Monk
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:59pm@Detroit paperboy
Report Post »I do not go to any Chruch either and have my own one-on-one relationship. I started a group back in 1990 after a bunch of people wanted me to attend their “individual” Churches after hearing me speak at a lecture. So I started Meetings Anonymous (MA). A bunch of people joined and asked when was the first meeting. I told them that the 1st rule of MA was to abstain from meetings. The 2nd rule was that you could find God all by yourself without books or buildings. The 3rd rule was to just be good and end guilt in one’s Life. Never heard back from any of them after that and sometimes I wonder how many are still attending MA. I see that you might be a member without ever joining. :)
The Third Archon
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 6:20pm“You are clearly “far left” of reason. If you do not see the lies which compose your manifesto, then you are simply deluded. You would have us all live in poverty so you can feel justified in your liberal bleeding heart that you have shown us all the “way”.” You presume to know a great deal about my beliefs for only having crude labels to go off–precisely what I take so much offense to, and what I meant by saying “most here would not accept this man as Christian” because he is not suitably “conservative” for them. I don‘t care whether he’s right or not–it’s this idea of “purity” in ideology that I find much more dangerous and disconcerting.
“Communism is the objective of progressives, and it is unworkable.”
Report Post »It is particularly practical or desirable, at least how it’s been tried, and the amount of technology that would be required to conceive of a way to make it work seems beyond us at the moment, so for the time being, I’d have to agree it does seem unworkable.
“They place man above man by means of man-made law.”
That’s the status quo–I would like to see the difference diminish–indeed man, in absence of considerations of fact, ought stand ideally equal under the law with fellow man (in the gender neutral sense) until we consider REASONS for the law to discriminate, such as infraction of the law, etc.
KAdams
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 8:09pmYes, I find it amusing that ‘liberals’ believe they are more intelligent because they uphold science over God… what’s even more amusing, is I used to be the same way. How refreshing it can be to look back on yourself at a younger age and laugh at your own foolishness. Agnostics don’t care about religions, so I’ll leave them out. Liberals/atheists refuse to see (or aren’t allowed to) what’s plain in front of their noses, and spend their entire lives looking for the answer. It doesn’t matter what the question is, because for a liberal/atheist, once that question is answered, there will always be another question, or another argument. Liberals/atheists are never satisfied, never content with what they find. They are always seeking. Like blind worms upon the ground. Christians, on the other hand, accept the truths they are shown, and only question when necessary. Christians, for the most part, are a sorrowful group, because they know what’s coming, and they see what’s happening to humankind. They weep for the lost, and pray that God would not harden the hearts of humankind, as he has. Christians understand, however that as it has been written, so it has been done. And it will continue to be done. Our Father, who art in Heaven, hallowed be THY name… THY kingdom come, THY will be done… (not my will, for certain!)
Report Post »mauijonny
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 1:47amThat’s a big assumption you have there, THIRD.
Report Post »Cousin_of_Marx
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 4:22amWhy do so many people respond to well form posts on this site with nothing but personal attacks, false numbers and “statistics” and dripping sarcasm?
Oh yeah, its because Glenn Beck and his flock of jackasses do those same things on the radio every morning.
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 5:38amAhhh, how I love the smell of ad hominem in the morning.
Report Post »bigspike
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 6:40ami hope He‘d be amused by people of every political stripe trying to claim the He’s a liberal, or conservative or moderate…but I think He may be dismayed that we actually think that He’s NOT above our petty political bickering
Report Post »edmundburk
Posted on January 17, 2012 at 4:55amso let me see if I get this right, the only people that believe in “church” are republicans. So what about
Report Post »Bob Beckell? He’s a christain who is also a progressive, so does this mean only progressive democrates are true christains? what about Mitt Romney? he belongs to a Church, so is he a hipocrate? I think that god is neither Democrate or Republican, or left or right. By the way what’s with all the anti-catholic hate? And as far as Priest as a molester goes, there are pleanty of pastors(protestant.)who molested, it just gets more play when it is a Catholic Priest. And if your that worried about molesting why don’t you take your kids out of state run colliges?(Penn state ring a bell?)
TerryDo
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:45amListening to this young man’s poetry of prayer it reminded me of this biblical passage:
ACTS 2:17″‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy – T
he word prophesy is not to be understood here as implying the knowledge and discovery of future events; but signifies to teach and proclaim the great truths of God, especially those which concerned redemption by Jesus Christ.
Report Post »Chr1st14n
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:00ammy college group has tripled its size since December, Gods moving.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:30amPeter was quoting Joel 2:28 to the Jews because they were wondering why they heard the 120 speaking in tongues.The word “Prophecy” is the Hebrew “Naba” which means to speak under inspiration.Tongues are done under the ispiration as the Spirit gave them utterance.Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.Also Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Report Post »rtist542010
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:53amAmen brother. And people like this young man will have hated spewed at him and accusations of ulterior motives made against him – even though he is sharing Christ who is love. Believers should not be surprised. We pity those who persecute people like this man and turn their backs on God because their future, unless the repent to God, ends badly.
Report Post »louise
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 6:54amTerrydo, thank you.
Report Post »hillbillyinny
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 7:25am@ terrydo
Amen!
So many active in a religion have never REALLY READ The Book–The Bible. If you start with the Gospel of John–why Jesus came and what he did for you, then read Mark to get an over view, followig up with Matthew, then Luke, then Acts you will notice that Jesus DID NOT COME TO FORM RELIGIONS (not even the “Catholic”–(means worldwide)–church, which is now split into sects, Roman, Syrian, Marikinite, Greek Orthodox, etc., some under the authority of the pope, some not). Check out the true use of the term “rock” vs. “Rock.” Jesus is the Rock (stumbling block) on which the His Church=People of God is built.
But more important is WHY God sent His Son, “The Word” (the communication piece of God–God, who is spirit, not limited in a body), to earth in a human body, “That we may know the Father. . ., to Seek and to Save the Lost. . ., not to END the law, but to “FULFILL the Law. . . ,“ that someday He will return and ”gather His own unto Himself. . . ,“ and ”after that the judgement. . . . ”
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16, the Bible)
“Do your own homework”!
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:13am@hillbillyinny
Incorrect about the Catholic church being divided into sects. The Catholic church has many rites. These originate from different, but consistent liturgical traditions. In other words their sacraments may have slightly different words and forms. But they are ALL consistent with the Magisterium and submit to the authority of the Pope, the bishop of Rome. The Latin Rite, to which I belong, is of course the largest.
http://www.gcatholic.com/dioceses/rites.htm
The Eastern Orthodox church separated around the year 1000 and isn’t a part of the Church. This is not the same as the eastern rites of the Catholic Church.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 7:55pmI don‘t know what you’d call the Jesuits, if not a ‘sect’ of the Catholic Church. Or the Knights Templar, the Rosicrucians for that matter. They all took their ‘marching orders’ from the head of the Church of Rome, a.k.a. Catholic Church.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 8:13pm@Saved: Can you explain to me why the Catholic Church removed the 2nd commandment and split the 10th commandment? Can you explain to me all the graven images of the Catholic Church? Can you explain to me the reason of transubstantiation, and why you ‘eat’ the body of Christ, and ‘drink’ His blood? Say it as prettily as you may, it‘s still ’cannibalism‘ and ’vampirism’, and neither are of God. Thanks.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 8:17pm@Saved:
“But they are ALL consistent with the Magisterium and submit to the authority of the Pope, the bishop of Rome. The Latin Rite, to which I belong, is of course the largest”
I have an issue with this statement… It would sound better this way:
“But they are ALL consistent with the Bible and submit to the authority of God, and Jesus Christ our Lord.”
You‘re stating that the authority of the Catholic Church doesn’t even submit itself to the will of God… they themselves are the authority… unto themselves.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 9:32pm@KADAMS –
The Jesuits are a religious order of men, who are primarily priests. There is plenty of information about them. There are 28 Jesuit Colleges and Universities in the United States. They do report to the Pope, but so do all religious orders of men and women. They are college professors, musicians, and theologians. I was educated by them in High School and College.
The Knights Templar and Rosicrucians – at this point only alive in the imagination of those that write movie scripts and Dan Brown novels. You can however go to the fish fry on Friday nights at the Knights of Columbus hall. :-)
The Catholic Church didn’t remove the 2nd Commandment. It has always taught the commandments in the form we have now, as summarized from Deuteronomy 5:6-21 and Exodus 20:2-17. The prohibition against idolatry is included in the first commandment, and is thoroughly explained in the catechism:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a1.htm
The protestants changed the numbering when they threw out the other teachings of the Church.
Transubstantiation is Biblical. The bottom line is that we believe that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ in the accidents of the bread and wine is because he said that it is. This has been a belief of the Church from the beginning. Read this:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 9:34pmThe Pope is the head bishop of the Catholic Church. That is all I was saying. Of course, his charge is to lead the church (non-catholics included) to Jesus. His teaching authority on faith and morals must be consistent with the Bible and sacred tradition.
I recommend you take a read through the Catechism…
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
and read how Catholics read and interpret the bible.
http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/How%20To%20Study%20Scripture.htm
Let’s keep praying for one another!
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:45amIf we go back to the beginning we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that fancy, enthusiasm, or deceit adorned or disfigured them; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them, and that custom, respect and tyranny support them in order to make the blindness of men serve its own interests.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:59amIt’s amazing how many humanly traits, God exhibits.
The almighty, all powerful, loving, merciful God gets
Prideful
Jealous
Angry
Envious
Not only that, but we’re made in “God’s image.” How more man made could an eternal being be? He might as well be white, 5′11 and named Joseph Smith. Oh wait…..there’s another one. Completely illogical.
Report Post »Kaoscontrol
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:03amYou’re such a cold bitter person MACPAPPY. All your posts are nothing but crabby and mean. You really out to let God soften your heart. You’d find a lot more love and happiness and purpose for you life, instead of all this negative stuff you always write.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:17am@Kaoscontrol
Don’t fret me brother. My preceived bitterness is but banter. I was once a Christian, even went to Bible College in Richmond Va. My faith is in myself now, and I am a happy man, with no guilt. My post are for those that might still have a thought of their own to ponder. Blind faith, no matter how well intended is folly.
“It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere… Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.” – Albert Einstein
Report Post »Kaoscontrol
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:47amSorry to hear you wandered away from the flock, MACPAPPY. In my case, I was transformed by God’s love from a dark and moody non-believer into a guy who’s whole outlook changed dramatically when I met Jesus. God is trying to reach out and welcome you back, MACPAPPY. even now he’s telling me to tell you to “turn off your computer, get some sleep, then come see me in Church this morning, MACPAPPY! I love you and want to re-establish our relationship.” — God
Report Post »I’d pray about it if I were you!
macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 3:10am@kaos
Report Post »God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off and say God did it. I am glad the illusion works for you. It must be nice to think that you will live forever. When I threw off the shackles of guilt that the Bible laid upon me I became a free and happy man. I live by the teachings of Jesus, you know the Golden Rule philosophy, but I don’t believe that Jesus is the Son Of God at all. At best he was a pretty good carpenter, a hell of a jewish rabbi, and a cult leader. But divine, born of a virgin mother, ressurected, believe in me or go to hell, its your choice tho, God of all the world.
I don’t think so.
Good evening to you sir, if you would like you can pray for my soul.
KAdams
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 8:20pmThey got you when you went to bible college. Come back, brother. Jesus still loves you, and though he is long-suffering, he will not wait forever.
Report Post »Esthers_daughter
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 12:20amI have to admit I’m kinda suprised by your argument MacPappy. I found God through science. I don’t understand how you can think that believing in God means not still learning the mysteries of this world he created or how or why. I never read in the bible where its says do not learn. Also I believe that if you look at belief in God in general you will see that it was through belief in him that we have abolished slavery, set up a free society and give to others that are in need. Believing in God makes one free from all that this world would use to enslave one. Such as materialism, fear, anger etc. Also….if you would live by the golden rule or the morality that Jesus has laid down then you are saying that you accept in part that it is right. But why is it right? I know God does not make us feel guilt. We do that to each other and honestly to ourselves. I do have a few thoughts of my own so I would hope that you would not disparage someone who believes in God as stupid or mindless as I do not disparage you on what you believe. Thanks for your time :)
“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg —
Report Post »your sensei
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:42amSo much blasphemy! Dear lord.
Report Post »txn4justice
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:41amJesus is Lord!
Report Post »shackero
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:39amWOW—-
Report Post »I had to take a minute to wipe the tears from my eyes.
This young man was SPOT-ON with his take on the teachings of Jesus Christ—–We need to remember that we serve Him—not the church……..
shackero
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:51amThat isn’t to say that your church—or mine is not on the right path—But we need to “Seek God first”—If the chursh is filled with the Holy Spirit, it will naturally grow——-people are hungry for the truth, and the living-word always resonates and attracts people. A dead church has traditions and motions to follow—-A church that is seeking God through Jesus Christ will encourage each member of the congregation to have a personal relation with God/Jesus.
Report Post »NoSocialism.com
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:06amI felt the same way!
Report Post »The Freedomlover
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:09amExactly! This young man is a prophet of God sent to call out the church to separate herself from religion. Being a member of a local congregation is necessary to our spiritual health.
Man gets into trouble when he elevates religion above the church-which is the body of Christ-thereby elevating itself above Jesus.
The kid is a literal prophet -some speaking the word of God-and he is calling believers to return to the body.
All Christians whether the be Catholic,Jehova‘s witness’s, Mormons, what ever “religious” group they are need to return to being united in the Church-the body of Christ-instead of being divided by man made doctrines.
Report Post »SCHEXbp
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 11:26pmKid is your typical rap/poor wordsmith (like 7th grade level). ALL this is is an excuse to be a cafeteria Christian. You get to read the Bible or whatever & do what YOU feel the book says. No learned theologians, no libraries from educated lines of serious theologians – just ME. Poor childish nonsense.
Report Post »VII
Posted on January 17, 2012 at 4:47ammark 7:6-9 6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘ This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’[a]
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men[b]—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.
reminds me of christmas every time i read it. with the lies (Santa) lust of material possessions, wrath and greed as people fight for a sale.envy and pride as people try to one up a neighbors lights. its just one of many things i question the more i study the bible
1 john 2:15-17 15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Luke 9:23-24 23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily,[a] and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.
Report Post »always ask yoursel
Christine Graham
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:37amWe are not to forsake the assembly of believers, the Bible is clear about this…it is important for accountability and for holding to correct doctrine…and MOST of the New Testament, e.g., Paul’s epistles, address this very topic. There’s a reason why this is established all throughout scripture.
I think what he really means to be talking about is “hypocrisy,” but that is NOT CLEAR from his prose. Perhaps he will “get it” a bit more as he matures in the faith. He’s got good talent…he just needs to tweak his doctrine so that it is sound and Biblical.
Report Post »grannyrecipe
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 5:41amSweetheart, he’s not talking about the body of believers (The Church) he‘s talking about religion vs faith in Jesus’ atonement for our sins.
Religion is easy. A man made dogma of rules and rituals that, upon adherence, makes one feel that by their own might they have achieved righteousness. Religion makes oneself feel pretty self-empowered.
Kissing cups or rugs, lighting candles and incense, confessing your sins to some dude in a booth, doing dances with wolves, yelling your head off at the moon and burning sticks upon the equinox, banging bells, gongs and the dirt, running away as fast as you can and believing that your own feeble self, that will one day die, has the ability to conceive what truth is “Religion”.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:05amInteresting, since Jesus was a pretty religious guy.
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 8:26pm@Saved:
Report Post »Where’d you pull that idea from? Religion is a man-made institution that has failed mankind time and time again. Jesus did the will of God. No more, no less and impossible, since Jesus was the Lord made flesh. People later on attributed his actions to be ‘religious’ because he did not waver in doing what he came here to do. People today attribute obsessive-compulsive disorder to ‘performing mundane tasks religiously’. Just one more way of people trying to make the concept of God into what feels right for them and minimizing him.
SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:04pmReligion is a path to God. The Jews have a religion which was started in response to God’s reaching out to them. At God‘s direction they created a way to teach the people to be faithful to God’s teachings. God didn’t personally reveal himself to everyone – he interacted with man through a select few and in a most focused way in the temple.
Jesus was a devout Jew, as was Mary and all of his followers. Jesus fulfilled the law and didn’t destroy it. He criticized the personal behavior of the Pharisees, but he didn’t tell people to be disobedient to their leadership.
We are a priestly people. We are a kingly people. We are called to be Christ for one another through love and by dying to ourselves. But God charged men – as he has always done – to teach and to spread His Word on earth.
Report Post »rafa2design
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:34amTwo minutes into this video and I found it incredibly boring. I love Jesus too but this guy was just all talk. These videos are a lot more effective and don’t have as many viewers but the message is clear.
Bridge to Life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUyFepIL9KA&feature=player_embedded#!
Personification:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09l-kwW7Upw&feature=youtu.be
Declaration:
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsCfatboRwA
ThoreauHD
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:33amJesus might have something to say about this.
“And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it.”
If Hell won’t prevail against it, I doubt humpty dance will.
Report Post »v15
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:49amTotally agree. Here’s another scripture as to why we Christians go to church
“And after they had been received unto baptism, and were wrought upon and cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost, they were numbered among the people of the church of Christ; and their names were taken, that they might be remembered and nourished by the good word of God, to keep them in the right way, to keep them continually watchful unto prayer, relying alone upon the merits of Christ, who was the author and the finisher of their faith.”
Report Post »ZAP
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:52amTHE WORD CHURCH IN GREEK DOES NOT MEAN A BUILDING,IT MEAN ASSEMBLY. SO WHAT CHRIST IS SAYING IS “upon this rock I will build my assembly of believers”
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:58amFrom the Arimaic :
Jesus= Petra, praise, and ROCK
Peter= Petras, meaning little pebble, or small stone.
Jesus’s true church is built upon Jesus. The scripture you reference come imeadiatly behind the scripture where GODs Spirit directs Peter to correctly identify Jesus as the Son of GOD, and then Jesus is telling Peter that it is upon HIM, Jesus, that the church is built upon, not on Peter.
Report Post »It’s a common misunderstanding when one fails to gather together the entire context of scripture, or when one is not encouraged to read it by ones church.
GOd Bless.
shackero
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:01amZAP—
Report Post »You are correct. Jesus did not have a building to teach his followers. We should congregate and give praise—-we do not always need to do it in church—
-
Hebrews 10:25
Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching
uncleeddie
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:49amWhat was the rock that Jesus was referring to?
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 3:55amJesus is the rock. He is the stone that the builders rejected.Matt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? In Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 3:57amEphesians 2:20- 22 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:11amYo BETTERDAYS & BOMUSTGO:
Report Post »Good to see some biblical truth….amen… I would add that WE are the “living stones” that make up the building, the “church” that is built on the foundation, that is built on and off of the cornerstone that is straight and true…peace ~~~ I hope that “betterdays” are ahead if “bo goes”….yo
SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:49pmWow, dozens and dozens of interpretations and personal agendas, with no earthly leadership or guidance. Very sad.
If only we had a way to have consensus on what the scripture really means and how it applies to our faith….
http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/How%20To%20Study%20Scripture.htm
Come home.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HtnH_8oKHUw#!
Report Post »KAdams
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 8:33pmYeah, lol… ‘come home’.
Hear the truth about the Catholic Church, the inquisitions, the torture, the convents, hear it all!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=3858
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:13pmI don’t know anything about witchcraft or skull houses. Those are not teachings of the Church. I do know that before the Mexicans converted to Catholicism that human sacrifice was a practice there.
Are there sinners in the Church? Yes. Did Jesus eat dinner with sinners? Yes. Do we teach people to blaspheme and sin? No.
How about instead of pointing out fringe strangeness and failures of the Church, we point out what she is all about? Leading people to God through Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Report Post »Kaoscontrol
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:30amPreach it, brother. Praise God for his mercy…
Report Post »Dhamael
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:30amYeah you learned those things…but then what did you do with it? the letter kills but the spirit gives life. Best line in the whole piece regarding taking this thing God meant to be a place of healing for those in need and turning it into a museum of what once was. God is moving TODAY, and he is looking for SOMEONE, maybe this young man, to pick up the standard and color outside the lines of convenience, convention and comfortability.
Report Post »ShawnB
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:30amits a fairy tale….
Report Post »dont_drive_slow_in_the_left_lane_obliviot
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 3:24amso you must have transcended all dimensions, reached the edge of the universe and been inside a black hole in order to have gained so much knowledge to know that. so then why aren’t you bringing peace on earth and curing all hunger and disease? surely you have the knowledge to do that.
Report Post »ShawnB
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:28amI think God is a fairy tale
Report Post »Anarcho Capitalist
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:34amwhen speaking of God your are suppose to abandon thinking and just have faith. ……… HEHEHEH. It’s hard to think that anyone buys this crap.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:52amWe must question the story logic of having an all-knowing/ all-powerful God, who creates faulty humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes.
Report Post »Kaoscontrol
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:54amYou both are so wrong. Logic and reason show us God is real– once our eyes are open to see who God is, only THEN do we put our faith (trust) in him. I was once blind as you are, but now I see. You just haven’t opened your hearts enough to see his love for you both. Go ahead and ask HIm if he’s real. He can handle it.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:00amFaith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions
Report Post »v15
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:02amAtheists are some of the biggest bigots I have met because Atheism has turned into it’s own form of religion. And Atheists will never understand what faith truly when they lean to their own understanding.
John 1:5
Report Post »“And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
BetterDays
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:03am@AC
Report Post »Going down stairs must take you eons.
Faith, a hopefully expectation in things unforeseen, climbing stairs is an act of faith, so is most everything you do all day, unless you pause and carefully plan every second that is.
The wind is a good analogy of GODs workings, for you can see it’s effects, but you can not see it.
Believe as you choose, that’s free will.
abbygirl1994
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:06amI feel very bad for you, because you don’t know what your missing.. and unless we know Jesus Christ, many won’t know Him when He comes.. and then they will cry for their very souls when they find out who He is! God help us all!
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:08am@V15
Report Post »Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply an admission of the obvious. In fact, ‘atheist’ is a term that should not ever exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a ‘non astrologer’ or a ‘non-alchemist’. We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs. An atheist is simply a person who believes that the 260 million Americans (87 percent of the population) claiming to ‘never doubt the existence of God’ should be obliged to present evidence for his existence-and, indeed, for his BENEVOLENCE, given the relentless destruction of innocent human beings we witness in the world each day.
Kaoscontrol
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:09amV15 is right on this one, guys. Athiests get so hateful and nasty in their posts. They need to experience the love of God.
Report Post »erinthinks
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 9:33am@Macpappy
Lame. There are many references in the Bible to seek and discern. To say people of faith surrender their ability to think is absolutely ridiculous.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:49amYo Macpappy:
You say…”Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions.”
It is amazing to me how you (and other atheists) can say something that you take credence in, and could not possibly be more wrong. My “FAITH” has actually caused me to do MORE searching for truth.. not less. God’s Word tells/ encourages us to “get wisdom, get knowledge get understanding”.
One can have “knowledge” and “understanding” of that “knowledge” but lack the “wisdom” to decifer truth from lies and theories; in doing so is open to deception, thus becomming deceived…. “fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom”. Without THIS “wisdom” a mans intelligence is futile, and will be shown for foolishness!
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 11:52am@erinthinks
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.
@4truth2all\
Report Post »Atheism is a requirement for a complete human being. Religion is a crutch that is shackled to you, one you never really needed in the first place, but were convinced by others that you couldn’t live without. Once you discover it’s only an illusion, that it’s not even a real crutch, you discard it gladly
4truth2all
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:55pmYo Macpappy:
Report Post »You say “religion is answers that may never be questioned”.
You again make a TOTALY untrue statement .. I can and do, go to God and ask anything I want, the bible in fact say’s that I can and SHOULD do this. So, this means that you’re statement/belief is completly untrue, and I have just corrected you ….“you do not have because you do not ask” says scripture. I believe you are the one that is bound up or “shackled’ as you say … I have attempted to free you by showing you the mistake in you’re “understanding”. Question is; do YOU now return to the shackles?
You also know NOTHING about me, because if you did you would know that I am a very independent person and not the kind of person that takes kindly to being shackled by anyone or a follower just cause someone says follow … no sir, you’re not even close,. in fact you‘re so far away even the hubble telescope can’t see it!
macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:58pm4truth2all
Religion: A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable
Praying to a God to ask how to translate his word, is that the faith you speak of? I’ll pass.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 4:16pmYo Macpappy:
Report Post »Well this time you are partically right … I do indeed pray to God every time I read scripture so as to get my understanding from Him and not my own … guess that makes me crazy, huh. I pray to God for ALL things, and one of the reasons for my hope is the answer to those prayers. To often has this happened for it to be chance, not a mathamatical possiblity. I even pray for Macpappy’s to believe…yo
macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 4:39pm@4truth2all
Report Post »For all I really know it may be the prayers of you and others that keep me here on earth.
Thank you for your prayers, it’s the thought that counts, and I certainly respect your beliefs.
thefbj
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 7:04pmMacpappy, if Hitch weren’t already dead, I’d suspect you were him. I would like to believe there is some kind of a higher spiritual authority and that we all have a clear reason for being which we can discover.
But I have seen no evidence of any of this. And when I look a the obvious human construct that is religion, it seems to have been more of a cause of hatred and separation between people than a comfort to them. I like your comment about Jesus being a great rabbi. I’d like to believe that we can behave in a positive, spiritual way with neither the carrot of Heaven or the stick of Hell.
If religion comforts some people, that’s fine. But giving up our reason, which is the very source of our human nature, in order to find some form of redemption is not something that works for me. Just let people decide for themselves what is the right answer, and don’t try to force your beliefs upon others.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 7:23pmYo Macpappy:
In my spirit I stand in the Throne room of the living God before Him and present my request as He says I can .. Dear Father, I pray for Macpappy as I know him. I pray that you would send some light into his heart, humble him, show him you are real, speak to his heart through things he sees or things he hears, even my feeble attempts. Break down the walls of pride that prevent us from seeing the truth of you’re Son. Speak to him in a dream or a vision. I allow you’re wisdom to determine this. Open his eyes to you’re wonderous creation in a way he has not seen it. I pray that he not be deceived by our enemy. I pray that he would one day reach up to you‘re hand reaching down to bring him into you’re glorious kingdom…. Amen …. I was glad to speak with you and for you
I do not pray with good intentions …I pray with purpose!
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 8:08pm@4truth2all
Report Post »Amen
macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 8:22pm@thefbj
Report Post »Just moving around, making friends.
I am offering some simple arguments that are solid enough to be pondered. No disrespect to any person of faith, just a question, or a statement to make you ponder the question of all time; “Am I”? and of course “Why Am I”…“Who Am I”. Most take all this on faith, some, still wish to ponder it further.
If you were refering to Alfred Hitchcock, thats funny.
KAdams
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 8:42pmI can only imagine the pain and agony some people may experience when they realize that even though they are loved by God, what they think and feel in respect to themselves is insignificant to God. When they realize that what they like or dislike doesn’t matter to God. When you read Job, and see what God says in regards to Job‘s ’Why me’ argument, for some people, it’s the last straw. Some people can’t grasp that God loving us has nothing to do with respect. Being insignificant isn’t something that sits well with the majority of humanity. Knowing that you are just a speck in relation to the awesomeness of God is a very humbling experience, and humanity isn’t known for being humble and meek.
Report Post »ZeroOff4impact
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:27amEveryone will find out what the answer is when they take that last breath. Make your peace.
Report Post »RisetovotesiR
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:27am““why i love buddha but not buddhism”, dogma.” – easy poem.
if we listened to what our “holy men” say then all is well. we have brains, we should use them. it’s all about dharma, not dogma.
reality is subjective.
Report Post »JustJ
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:26amI think he gets it…
Going to church and following a sect of Christianity doesn’t save you… Only a personal relationship with Jesus Christ can do that.
Harsh… but the truth.
Report Post »hillbillyinny
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 6:52amAmen!
Report Post »HorseCrazy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:59amI agree with you but I do believe this man is jaded and has hardened his heart to God’s people. He has lost sight of the fact Christians are a work in progress. There has and always will be jerks in the church who show up to feel better listen for an hour and go about their merry lives of sin. They need our prayers and not our condemnation or judgement which he is freely giving out the very thing he is “against”. He needs to take a look an examine his defintion of religion vs the bibles definition. http://bible.cc/james/1-27.htm
Report Post »FreedomDefender33
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 8:57pmAbsolutely correct!
Report Post »mauijonny
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 2:39amHe didn’t say he hated Christians or the church, he said he hated religion.
Report Post »v15
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:26amWhy do Christians always focus on the cross when thinking of how he suffered? Because he suffered WAY more while he was in the Garden of Gethsemane to the point where he sweat blood. And I still can’t see why this guy says religion is evil because Jesus set apart apostles and prophets and established his kingdom on earth, the true church (which was later corrupted to the point where the earth went through a long spiritual darkness).
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:23amFor Jesus had no place to rest his head, his building was his country his church the true from GOD.
Report Post »I‘ve been to about nine or ten different church’s, spent time in each, had a ministry of small matter here and there, always looking for a church that didn’t put on airs and had a welcome heart for all who entered. More important though was the answer to the question, did the both teach and live scripture, and that alone? Knowing that answer took time, but when an scripture took a back pew to church tradition, I quietly made myself to the door.
No man is perfect, save the one who died to save my life. Churchs are but a collection of fallen men, most looking for their saviors return, and a few even live like they are. But we are all at different places in our walks with Jesus, who knows but him who finally makes it home?
I reached a conclusion in my seeking, the church Jesus calls his own, is made up of two there, four, over further, one, six and so on to the number he alone knows. Not knit between four walls and a spire, but knit in unison in the Spirit of the Lord and HIS good purpose.
Am I a toe nail, or a Knee cap, a finger or an ear, I’m not sure Lord, but please use me and draw me closer ever near.
I pray I may meet you all some glourious day, until then GOD keep thee.
ModerationIsBest
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:22amFeel free to believe that you and everyone you know including your kids are born sick and worthy of eternal torture, and needed a human sacrifice to be freed from it.
I’ll take the moral road and say that if I saw Jesus being crucified that I would try to stop it, and not cheer it on and want him to die for “my sins.”
Jesus is religion and religion is Jesus. There is no escape.
Report Post »JustJ
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:32amYou simply don’t get it. And I pray that someday you will… honestly. You really think we cheer on Jesus for taking the punishment for my sins? We’re grateful… not SICK! I deserve the punishment he took for me. Be careful about making assumptions on things you truly do not understand.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:45amFace it,
You WANT Jesus to die
You NEED Jesus to die.
If given the opportunity, you would choose NOT to save him, because you’ve been brainwashed to think a human sacrifice was needed on your behalf. How is that moral? News flash, it’s not.
Your almighty God who is bloodthirsty throughout the old Testament, one ups himself again and sends himself, to be sacrificed to himself to create a loophole for a system that he created. Illogical!
You think of yourself, your loved ones, and everyone as wretched, and deserving of an eternal torment simply for being born.
Don’t worry, I get what you believe, because I once believed it. Hopefully one day, you will see what you believe for what it really is which is demented, perverted, disgusting, and immoral. Once you finally see that, you will realize you are more moral then the God you so blindly follow.
Report Post »uncleeddie
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 3:30amMod, you have a very interesting view of the atonement, I have never thought of it in that way. I think your misunderstanding of it relates to an understanding of Justice and Mercy and how they relate to the human condition in relation to the eternal nature of God and his plan for us as his children.
Report Post »It would take much to long for me to explain this concept to you an even if I could in a way that you would understand, you still would not accept the glory of the Atonement until you accepted it on a spiritual level that I do not think you can humble your self enough to reach.
We did not cheer him as he suffered the pains of sin for all of us we wept as he took upon him self the demands of Justice with his great Mercy and love for each of us so that we could one day live with him in eternal joy.
Mizurax
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:28amModerationIsBest, you would try to stop God’s will, and you call that the moral high ground? Yeah, good luck with that.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:53pm@MIZURAX
People try to stop God’s will all of the time. First off, you pray for things which means you are trying to change or stop God’s will. But you leave yourself a nice little win-win when
If my prayer is answered = God is great and rewards his followers
If my prayer is unanswered = well that‘s God’s will, who am I to question it?
It’s a sick joke and is illogical.
If God gives a baby to a woman he knows will get an abortion, and you create laws that will stop her from getting an abortion, you are trying to stop God’s will.
How do you know it wasn‘t in your God’s divine plan to give a baby to a woman who will get an abortion? Maybe the process of going through the abortion would eventually lead her to God and by taking away that path, she never finds God?
The fact is, I don’t think there is a God, therefore I don‘t think I’d be stopping “God’s will.” I’d be stopping a human sacrifice on my behalf, which I never asked for, nor wanted. Deciding to stop that act IS moral.
Hopefully one day you will see that.
Therightsofbilly
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 4:52pmMOD
How many times are you going to copy and paste the same arguments?
Having trouble coming up with some original thoughts?
Or are you just regurgitating the talking points from your handbook?
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 10:19pmThe Good News folks is that God decided to become a weak human being and die. What a wonderful God we have indeed. He so loved us that he sent His only Son to repair the rift created by Adam.
And just as Jesus foresaw all of the sin in the world as he endured his Passion, he also foresaw all of the prayers, penance, and consolation we Christians offer up to God. May we always console the Sacred Heart of Jesus, so bruised and pierced by the insults and indifference of men.
Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of your mercy.
Amen.
Report Post »mauijonny
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 2:43amMOD – religion is also about flying planes into buildings.
Report Post »Anarcho Capitalist
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:20amHe brings up faith VS reason. But he sets up a straw man for reason presenting it as faith of a voluntary nature.
I like Jesus but can not stand his followers. Wile voluntary faith is better then forced faith via religion, I would just rather have reason and skip all forms of faith.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:27am“One man‘s theology is another man’s belly laugh.” – Robert Heinlein
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 4:11amPlease explain the event in Acts 2:1-4 and how that the same experience is being fulfilled to this day with miracles, signs, healings as the nine gifts do operate in the body of true believers to this day? It is no fairy tale.Acts 2:1-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Report Post »2. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
countrygirl
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 2:58pmIt is not reasonable to reject the Son of God; in fact, that is the most irrational thing you could do.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:15amForgive, O Lord, my little jokes on Thee
Report Post »And I’ll forgive Thy great big one on me.
americanfirst
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:13amI disagree.
I don’t think ligion is as problematic as this guys makes it sound!
He is not saying anything that I didn’t learn in religion. Religion is specifically where I learned ll these precepts.
Report Post »AmeriCat
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 4:30amAgree.
I truly doubt Bethke wrote the words in the video.
I think he was merely “the performing artist.”
I wonder…who wrote this poem and what is their agenda?
Is this yet another Progressive tactic to divide, weaken, secularize religion?
Report Post »Fisch42
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 1:59pmI am an strong conservative, and a very strong evangelical. Young democrats who are trying to follow Christ are being told by young Christians that they cannot be a democrat and be a follower of Christ. You have to be a republican. Being how young he is, I’m guessing he has seen that same thing with the youth he is around and is sick of it like I am. Jesus is not republican or democrat. Both democrats and republicans can be followers of Christ. That’s the point he is trying to make. Note, he didn’t say Jesus us a democrat. He was just putting to bed this awful talking point that is out there.
Also, this guy is right on. So many people and go to Chruch, get involved, and feel good about doing good things, but they end up missing the point. Good deeds should only come out of the overflow of love we have from our relationship with Christ. Good deeds without Christ are pointless and this is the Religion he is talking about. Knowing about God, but not knowing God. Knowing how to do good things, but doing them on your own and not allowing God to do them through His spirit in you.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 15, 2012 at 3:29pmFisch42,
You are right on. This was actually the message in the Homily this morning. Our priest said that it isn’t all about being nice and doing good things in the world (although that is an important commandment). We need to develop that “personal relationship with Jesus” through prayer, the sacraments and reading scripture. Jesus came to show us the true nature of God – we need to spend some quality time getting to know him better.
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