Technology

Why Is a ‘Ghost Town’ Being Built in the Middle of New Mexico?

Pegasus Global Holdings to Build Full Functional Town With No People to Test New Technology

This artist rendering provided by the Center for Innovation, Testing and Evaluation shows the $1 billion scientific ghost town near Hobbs, N.M. (Image: AP/Center for Innovation, Testing and Evaluation)

It may be hard to believe, but the latest ghost city isn’t being constructed in China (where such a thing is common) or anywhere overseas for that matter. It’s going up right here in the United Sates — in the middle of New Mexico.

Pegasus Global Holdings to Build Full Functional Town With No People to Test New Technology

New Mexico Gov. Susana Martinez speaks during a news conference in Albuquerque, N.M. on Tuesday, May 8, 2012, where it was announced that Hobbs and Lea County had beat out a second finalist, Las Cruces, for a new $1 billion research center. The Center for Innovation, Technology and Testing - or CITE - will be a scientific ghost town developed to help researchers test everything from intelligent traffic systems and next-generation wireless networks to the latest in automated washing machines and self-flushing toilets. (AP Photo/Jeri Clausing)

There, a brand new, fully-functional modern town devoid of people is being built with the sole purpose of being a tech test bed.

(Related: See pictures of the creepy Chinese ghost malls)

BBC reports the tech company Pegasus Global Holdings is spending $1 billion in Lea County, New Mexico, to construct a town that will test a wide range of new gadgets and systems:

Anything from smart grids and next-generation wireless networks to self-flushing toilets could be tested in the new town.

“The only thing we won’t be doing is destructive testing, blowing things up — I hope,” said Robert Brumley from Pegasus.

 

Pegasus Global Holdings to Build Full Functional Town With No People to Test New Technology

 

Last year, Brumley told Popular Mechanics the site could also be used to test items like driverless vehicles. Here he explains the benefit of having all the infrastructure in place but no people around:

Driverless trucks controlled over a wireless network could make freight more efficient, for example, and the upgraded communications systems required could help rural communities along the highway get better broadband access. Some companies are already developing the technology, but testing unmanned trucks on real highways would endanger human drivers, and tinkering with telecommunications could disrupt regular service. But inside the unpopulated city, there’s no problem. “There’d be nobody to interfere with,” Brumley says.

Mayor of Hobbs Sam Cobb confirmed to The Associated Press that the southeastern New Mexico community was selected prior to a news conference Tuesday with Gov. Susana Martinez and the investors developing the Center for Innovation, Technology and Testing, or CITE.

Pegasus Global Holdings to Build Full Functional Town With No People to Test New Technology

Pegasus Holdings and its New Mexico subsidiary, CITE Development, had announced last month that the list of potential sites had been narrowed to two. Hobbs beat out a location near Las Cruces.

Developers were looking for open spaces. Another plus was the proximity to federal research facilities like White Sands Missile Range in southern New Mexico and Los Alamos and Sandia national labs.

MSN has more on the town:

Although a fully operational city with no people sounds a little like the setup for a dystopian sci-fi novel, Pegasus CEO Robert Brumley says the center is modeled after Disney World: “Most of the maintenance of the facility is done underground, and aboveground is the amusement park.” In some ways, the center would be like a playground for scientists and innovators. Brumley envisions it as a place where people developing new technologies could run large-scale experiments in real-world conditions that — for practical, financial, bureaucratic or safety reasons — they wouldn’t be able to do elsewhere. “People can go there and experiment without restrictions,” he says.

Gov. Martinez joined officials in announcing final site selection for the project, which she hailed as “one of the most unique and innovative” economic development projects the state has seen. She noted that no tax breaks were given for the development. “The only thing they have asked for is guidance,” she said.

Brumley said plans are to break ground on the town by June 30. The initial development cost is estimated at $400 million, although Brumley estimates the overall investment in the project to top $1 billion.

The project is expected to create 350 permanent jobs and about 3,500 indirect jobs in its design, development, construction and ongoing operational phases.

Update: The Blaze contacted Brumley to find out more about how this project was funded. He told us it was funded all through private investors. He said government dollars were specifically not chosen to help fund the project as they wanted the site to be “based on free market principals.” He also explained how testing sites such as this are hard for private companies to come by when they have an innovative idea, as they are usually owned by the government or universities. He said they have had to go outside of the country, like Korea or Iceland, before to test ideas. With this new site, he said there would be no favoritism on who could test there whether it be small businesses, government agencies or universities. Part of how the site will generate revenue when it’s complete is charging access fees to use its facility. 

The Associated Press contributed to this report. 

Comments (269)

1 2 3 ... 7
  • Singlespeeder
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:42am

    Great for testing infrastructure, I suppose but the problem with driverless cars is how they will interact with all of the unpredictable idiots running and driving the streets. They will need some test idiots. Anyone know of a bunch of willing subjects needing jobs like speed bump? Great place to test anti EMP tech?

    Report Post »  
    • Liberty 4x4
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:49am

      There are plenty of liberal progressive democrats available.

      Report Post » Liberty 4x4  
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:53am

      Humanity will always be the random, unpredictable element; was there not a film with Stalone in the future that had self driving cars? As to the Anti EMP effect, this would also be a dream come true for a hacker group to try and infiltrate their techniques; gain an edge on the competition and targests they seek to strike out at in the future.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:54am

      Apologies – as for the Anti EMP effect, yes it would be a great test bed.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • AxelPhantom
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 9:35am

      Occupy Wall Street

      Report Post »  
    • KENTUCKIANAPATRIOT
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 9:53am

      Amen…and maybe they will create a need for INDOOR lawn & garden equipment. (Which is what, exactly?)

      Report Post »  
    • DakotaJoe
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:02am

      Start an Occupy Hobbs, N.M, That way we get all the test DUMBIES we need.

      Report Post »  
    • SUNTZU
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:22am

      No salt
      No McDonaldls
      No bake sale
      No sugar
      No smoking
      No OWS
      No republic
      No elections
      No meat…
      No guns
      No whites
      No blacks
      No Nothing You want
      No God
      No No No No No ……………………………………….
      And above all No people
      Robo Town ???????????????

      Report Post » SUNTZU  
    • Stoic one
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:24am

      CAT
      The most recent movie with automated cars would be “Minority Report” starring Tom Cruise.

      Report Post » Stoic one  
    • Useful_Idiot
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 11:25am

      The SEIU has plenty of volunteers

      Report Post »  
    • Nancys Red Diaper Doper Babies
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 11:50am

      “I suppose but the problem with driverless cars is how they will interact with all of the unpredictable idiots running and driving the streets. They will need some test idiots.”

      We could always import a few OWSers.

      Report Post »  
    • 4XGrace
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 11:57am

      Wait till the Mexicans arrive … it won’t be a ghost town for long … :-o

      Report Post » 4XGrace  
    • teamarcheson
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 12:14pm

      Who is paying for this?

      Are these going to be Reservation Housing for Indians, Blacks, and Illegal Aliens?

      Report Post »  
    • Machtyn
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 12:38pm

      You don’t suppose Japan would have robots in the town? I suspect they would. Also, it wouldn’t be too hard to build in unpredictability with cardboard children on rails that “run” into the street. A driverless vehicle would have to be programmed for such situations.

      Granted, you’re not going to save every idiot that wants to jump in front of a car, there’s just no preventing physics and unfortunate timing. (Do I swerve to miss the running kid and right into the family walking their dog on the other side of the road?)

      Report Post »  
    • JanZizka
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 12:40pm

      I can think of 535 highly overpaid test idiots.

      Report Post »  
    • Ruler4You
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 1:00pm

      There “IS” no reason that this couldn’t be done using “smart technology” models. Which would be even ‘smarter’ than using a bunch of resources for nothing.

      doesn’t pass the smell test.

      Report Post » Ruler4You  
    • Puddle Duck
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 1:09pm

      Perfect location for the shadow Gov’t once DC is cleared out of undesirables (read GOP and other factions not willing to submit to King Obongo and his UN handlers). Sounds nutty I know but that is the first thought that popped into my head when viewing the layout and size of the place. Security here can be quite easy to maintain with it’s open kill zones in all directions. I wonder what is under this town. I bet it has quite the subterrian infrastructure, perfect for a dictator to carry on from in relative safety.

      Report Post » Puddle Duck  
    • turkey13
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 1:12pm

      Gov. Martinez isn’t to smart – no imagination. A smart Gov. would have went to Obama and told him they would be usuing the latest Green Technolgy. Obama would then have lumped it in with Sylndra and all those other failed companys. Shucks Sylndra got a half billion bucks. If it failed the state of New Mexico would have owned the whole operation and if it worked even have been better. Most of these engineers will come from Japan and the workers from out of state. The kids in Japan and China are the only kids hitting the books and not marching for Share the Wealth. They actually will keep their grades and go to work.This will only provide local jobs for the gophers.

      Report Post »  
    • dnha14
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 1:28pm

      Al Sharpton is looking for work.

      Report Post »  
    • smg60user
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 1:43pm

      Raccoon City?

      Report Post » smg60user  
    • armyofnibiru
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 1:45pm

      the idiot drivers will be eliminated by the chemtrails,there won’t be enough little people to drive the elites and thier cargo around the country. since all the other cities need people they can’t work without them.so they need cites that work without people.sounds like the hole idea should self flush.

      Report Post »  
    • KickinBack
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 1:58pm

      Maybe when Obama gets the boot this November we can elect him mayor of this empty city.

      Report Post » KickinBack  
    • flrick
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 2:43pm

      Perfect cover for a……FEMA camp? Just sayin’….

      Report Post »  
    • FaithFamilyandFriends
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 4:15pm

      The more technologically advanced we get, the less I want to take part in it.

      Report Post »  
    • JRHelgeson
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 5:18pm

      How are they going to keep the 99% squatters out of there?

      Report Post » JRHelgeson  
    • WhiteFang
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:37pm

      Why is there going to be a Church there?

      Report Post » WhiteFang  
    • hallkbrdz
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:32pm

      They could have just used part of Detroit and saved money. Even if they blew something up, no-one would really notice, heck it might be an improvement.

      Report Post » hallkbrdz  
    • mauijonny
      Posted on May 11, 2012 at 4:47am

      I soooo agree w/GB on this. I wrote several letters to my local paper‘s editor about doing something like this in our ’tech park’ (that now houses mostly golf villas) on a much smaller scale. Oh well…

      Report Post » mauijonny  
    • railgrinder57
      Posted on May 12, 2012 at 12:47pm

      Check with MSNBC, I understand they have some useful idiots looking for work.

      Report Post »  
  • Dismayed Veteran
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:39am

    I thought FEMA camps would look like WWII POW camps.

    Report Post » Dismayed Veteran  
    • Dahart
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 9:33am

      True that!

      Report Post » Dahart  
    • desktrucker
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 9:56am

      Maybe this is an upscale FEMA camp, I mean “re-education” center.

      Report Post »  
    • code green
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:15am

      That was my first thought

      Report Post »  
    • Meyvn
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:19am

      You can teach us old dogs new tricks.

      Report Post » Meyvn  
    • Countrygirl1362
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:34am

      That was my first thought also, re-education camp.

      Report Post »  
    • SUNTZU
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:43am

      Think
      They have the bunkers for the top dogs
      places like this for the party members
      We will be outside killing each other in a
      Race , rich? poor I got mine you get
      yours ,War

      Report Post » SUNTZU  
    • SUNTZU
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:44am

      YOU need to read my book
      “The Art of War”

      Report Post » SUNTZU  
    • Wolf
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 2:23pm

      FEMA camp disguised as a city… no way this is going to pay for itself with ‘research’. Just another piece of wool being pulled over the sheeple’s eyes.

      Report Post »  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 4:37pm

      @SUNTZU
      “YOU need to read my book “The Art of War””

      Hi Sun,
      I’ve read all the “…Tzu” books. What influenced you sign up to The Blaze two days ago? Just curious. : )

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • hayesstephen
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 5:15pm

      I believe this is going to be a fema camp. Not for average volk but for the elite who will not bend to the new order. All is needed implanted chips and sensors to keep people from escaping, or good old chain link and razor wire.
      Pray for our country. We are facing the greatest threat to our freedom in November.

      Report Post »  
  • Baddoggy
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:33am

    If it was any other Governor but Martinez I would worry…I love her!

    Report Post » Baddoggy  
    • kennebec
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:52am

      great story to hear in desolate progreesive district

      Report Post »  
  • kam123
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:27am

    Eureka!

    Report Post »  
    • Lord_Frostwind
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 1:29pm

      Sad that I thought of the exact same thing as soon as I read the article. I even started humming the opening theme.

      Report Post » Lord_Frostwind  
    • lukerw
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 2:46pm

      ‘Build it… and they will come’… sayeth the Shoe God!

      Report Post » lukerw  
    • 3monkeysmomma
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 4:18pm

      That’s what I thought, Eureka!

      Report Post » 3monkeysmomma  
  • thibx
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:25am

    why don’t they just tell the truth? where did this money come from? a company is not going to invest 1 billion in this how are they getting a return.

    Report Post »  
    • Mannax
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 9:00am

      They rent out space to other companies to test their stuff too. They make more money on that than testing their own equipment.

      Report Post »  
    • LibertyGoddess
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:40am

      You are correct. There is more going on and I wouldn‘t be surprised if this isn’t some front for funneling government money to some “study”.

      Report Post » LibertyGoddess  
    • ChiefGeorge
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 11:41am

      Its government money! No need to recoup!

      Report Post » ChiefGeorge  
    • Talent-Keyhole
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 11:51am

      If you start pulling the threads, the money trail leads to Soros via a number of fronts and proprietaries. The other thread set leads back to PALADIN (U), FEMA and GARDEN PLOT(U). This facility will test all kinds of “urban control systems”. Think rats in a maze with wires sticking into their brains and scientist saying things like “Ah! so that’s it!”. Anyone read “The Breach” trilogy. Just sayin’ …..

      Report Post »  
    • Bangstick
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 12:29pm

      They will get their money back and then some when the gov’t MANDATES you have to buy their stuff.

      Report Post »  
    • KyleD
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 2:27pm

      This is a holding company. They earn money by purchasing stock in other companies they believe will do well in the future. I don‘t know what stocks Pegasus Global Holdings owns but it seems it’s all related to tech…in which case this is a perfect plan for them. They’re investing $1 billion to create a small city where all of the various companies they hold stock in can come and easily do research, which makes them money. It’s really very ingenious because they can invest in a number of companies that have completely different products and test them all simultaneously. The city could test energy production, new building materials, new waste disposal systems, automated driving systems, new traffic lights, high speed internet, city wide wifi, security systems…the list pretty much goes on and on and they can test all of these things without the hassle of having to deal with city regulations. They could also charge other companies for the use of the facilities and if they ever decide they no longer want the city they can sell it. It’s really a very smart plan.

      Report Post »  
  • TheftfromtheLeft
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:24am

    Something here is a little too fishy, and if i do recall, there isn’t a lot of water sources for that smell in the middle of the desert, aka Hobbs, NM.

    Report Post » TheftfromtheLeft  
  • 321481
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:11am

    How much of Pegasus money came from the fed. gov’t, either directly or indirectly. If the sole purpose of building an entire town is to test products it seems to be overkill. In our society when things are not what they apear to be, I find this hard to believe on it’s face.

    Report Post »  
    • Stoic one
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:27am

      The article said NO tax/gov’t money. Until proven otherwise…………….

      Report Post » Stoic one  
    • chips1
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 2:52pm

      OMG!!!! They are planning to kill us.

      Report Post »  
  • SageInWaiting
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:09am

    HOW DEEP underground? Is this the “survivalist” hideout for the elites? EVERYTHING has alternate uses…..

    Report Post » SageInWaiting  
    • SimpleTruths
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:05am

      Darn, you figured it out. My fellow elites are going to have to shut this down now and start over somewhere else.

      Report Post » SimpleTruths  
  • kickagrandma
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:06am

    I was thinking: fema camps for dissidents.

    Report Post »  
    • G-WHIZ
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 11:12am

      …and for several levels [under-ground] are the total-iso-areas for those who dissagree, with no external communication…and built for infinit detention.

      Report Post »  
    • armyofnibiru
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 1:18pm

      not dissidents,DCs disslocated citizens,you know;people tossed out of thier houses do to agenda 21.

      Report Post »  
  • welloddyfriggindah
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:03am

    We should test Progressive policies out there before endangering innocent lives…oh wait…thats what Europe was for!

    Report Post » welloddyfriggindah  
  • c0mm0nsense
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:02am

    “self-flushing toilets could be tested in the new town.” ???
    Pegasus Global Holdings is spending $1 billion ???
    2+2=5

    Report Post » c0mm0nsense  
    • circleDwagons
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:12am

      solar power? hydrogen power?

      Report Post » circleDwagons  
    • RJJinGadsden
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 9:04am

      If this is all up and up, and is privately funded for the R&D of new products. Then, I am all for it. Otherwise, I am rather leary.

      Report Post » RJJinGadsden  
    • JimmyP
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 11:02am

      Twilight Zone episode?
      Westworld, where nothing can go wrong…go wrong…go wrong…
      Woody Allen’s Sleeper?
      Self flushing toilets with no people there?
      Will the toilets include bidets?

      Sounds like a good idea actually…
      No tax incentives paid out.
      Available for rent 24-7

      Maybe a contest to name the city should be held.
      Maybe the name should go the highest bidder?

      Report Post » JimmyP  
  • HaroldHeard
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:00am

    A ghost town being built by a ghost company, oops, I should not have said anything. The black helicopters rotors are spinning-up now.

    http://www.pegasusglobalholdings.com/

    Notice how all the companies they work with are from Washington DC, I smell shadow companies, anyone else.

    Report Post » HaroldHeard  
    • Babci
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 12:29pm

      Fascinating! I scratched the surface of Pegasus Global and found some surprises. Just pick one of the executives or advisors mentioned on the site. I picked the Lord in the London office. He’s a Pharmacologist who also serves on the board of PartyGaming Inc., the world’s largest internet gambling site. Started by a family in SF that specialized in internet porn and moved to gambling in 2001. A member of Parliament, who’s career has been in pharmaceuticals, is on the board of a gambling company whose founders now live in Gibralter and would be arrested if they came back to America. Wow, nothing wierd going on here.

      Report Post » Babci  
  • Gonzo
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:50am

    Let‘s make Obama’s next job mayor of an empty city like this. Hey, Newt’s moon colony may not be such a bad idea. We could send Barry and Moochelle up there to reign over an imaginary lunar kingdom.

    Report Post » Gonzo  
    • objectivetruth
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:26am

      Sounds great.It would be the safest we have been in three years and some odd months.This way they could preside over the eating habits of desert rats.Let me shut up ,I just got a thought about the true implications of that.

      Report Post »  
    • angelcat
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:52am

      obama would manage to ruin and bankrupt it in record time.

      Report Post »  
    • gryffn
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 1:58pm

      Don’t you dare send that idiot here to NM!

      Report Post » gryffn  
  • conservativejon
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:49am

    as long as we are not paying for any of it. the idea is very cool. wonder if that tech co has been watching too much sifi channel though

    Report Post »  
  • Mrtoohappy
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:37am

    Don’t let Obama know about this, it will cost us millions in tax dollars.

    Report Post »  
    • randy
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:50am

      Actually, don’t let OWS know about this, or they’ll attempt to occupy it….

      Report Post » randy  
    • brntout
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 9:12am

      @ Randy they can be useful as crash test dummies for the driverless vehicles as jay walkers.

      Report Post »  
  • Striker
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:35am

    This is a great example of what free markets can do. If the gov‘t will stay out and the company does not try to get gov’t funding for their tests, it will be a huge success. If the progressives tried this it would cost 5 times as much and produce no results. Liberty is always the best answer.

    Report Post »  
    • bpodlesnik
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:02am

      I do agree that this company could become huge. Such a great idea with the new tech that is coming out so rapidly. And as far as I know, this is the only company that is doing something like this.

      Report Post » bpodlesnik  
    • izzy1127
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 11:15am

      Yeah, and 2 + 2 = 5.

      Report Post »  
    • Puddle Duck
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 1:19pm

      Read Harold Heards post above adn the reply to it….PegasusGlobalHoldings corp board all leads back to Wash DC and to some rather shady characters. My gut reaction to this story is not positive…something stinks here.

      Report Post » Puddle Duck  
  • KURT1010
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:34am

    I just do not understand this ?

    Report Post » KURT1010  
  • Joseph2
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:33am

    What’s the name of this town?

    Report Post »  
  • another_mormon_4_Ron_Paul
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:31am

    West World.

    Report Post »  
  • Vietvet1
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:30am

    Add your comments

    Report Post »  
  • Vietvet1
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:30am

    Hmmmmm sounds sort of like Eureka… Town with BRAINIACS in it, experimenting on a lot of things….

    Report Post »  
  • starman70
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:29am

    Biblical prophecy coming true. Experiments designed to control the population of the future, being used to monitor EVERY action of the future population!

    Report Post »  
  • Ran60
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:27am

    Neat! Illegals now will have their choice of accommodations as a layover to their destinations.

    And if they stay, it will make it easier for ICE to pick them up.

    Report Post »  
  • Ed_Kel
    Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:24am

    Wasn’t the island on the show Lost all screwed up because of the “unrestricted testing”?

    Report Post »  
    • MR_ANDERSON
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 8:48am

      No, it was because they were all dead and in purgatory.

      Report Post »  
    • Balthazor
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 2:41pm

      MR_ANDERSON: no they weren’t, and ED_KEL is exactly right.

      Report Post » Balthazor  
    • Welcome Black Carter
      Posted on May 11, 2012 at 6:34pm

      This will never happen. No one will waste that kind of money. Except our government of course…

      Report Post » Welcome Black Carter  
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