Government

Why Is Homeland Security Buying 450 Million Rounds of Hollow Point Bullets?

Department of Homeland Security Purchases 450 Million Hollow Point Bullets From ATKThe Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) has awarded defense contractor ATK with an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement for .40 caliber hollow point ammunition. According to an official ATK press release, U.S. agents will receive a maximum of 450 million rounds over a five-year period.

The following is an excerpt from the press release:

ATK announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds.

ATK was the incumbent and won the contract with its HST bullet, which has proven itself in the field. [...]

“We are proud to extend our track record as the prime supplier of .40 caliber duty ammunition for DHS, ICE,” said Ron Johnson, President of ATK’s Security and Sporting group.

The hollow point, of course, features a pitted or hollow tip intended to expand upon entering its target. ATK says its ammunition is “engineered for 100-percent weight retention, limits collateral damage, and avoids over-penetration” — all hallmarks of the hollow point.

This is not the first time DHS has placed such an order, however. In 2009, it signed a contract with Winchester for the procurement of 200 million hollow points.

The order may seem unusually high, but gun experts I talked to said it is not necessarily unusual and simply reflects a long-running practice by DHS and law enforcement agencies to use any remaining budget surplus on items routinely used and that would not be called into question. The idea being that if an agency does not use its entire budget in expenditures, the government will lower its budget the following year.

On the other hand, the decreased retail availability for hollow points does drive up demand, and hence price for such ammunition. Whether the consequence is an intended one, remains to be seen.

So is this a calculated move by the government to curb ammunition availability to civilians or is it simply another way for it to spend money? Weigh in with your thoughts below.

Comments (325)

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  • Constructionist
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:25pm

    1) The bullets shown are Hydra-Shoks, not the HSTs mentioned in the article.
    2) HSTs are only made available to the public when there is an overrun/off spec run on government contracts. This is an internal rule from Federal Ammunition, not a law, a consequence of Winchester’s Black Talon media feeding frenzy years ago. Therefore, a large contract could not be used to drive up the prices, but would probably increase civilian supply.
    3) ICE typically issues 155 grain rounds, real men shoot 180 grain .40 cal rounds.
    4) Why is DHS stockpiling .40 cal rounds? The same reason everyone else is…

    Report Post » Constructionist  
    • Uranium Wedge
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:31pm

      Can’t outlaw them, so drive up the cost.

      Report Post » Uranium Wedge  
    • teamarcheson
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:36pm

      Are these hollow point rounds going to be given away to the the Mexican Drug War Lords who received all those guns that Eric Holder sent under his FAST AND FURIOUS project. What good are guns without the bullets?

      Report Post »  
    • Patrick Henry II
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:46pm

      Hollow points while outlawed under the Geneva Convention for use in war, due to their inhumane effects, they are however fine to use on your own citizens; I guess.

      Report Post » Patrick Henry II  
    • Latter-Day-Soldier
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 7:48pm

      Patrick Henry you are correct concerning laws of war….at least for American troops, since we seem to be one of the few countries that actually abides by the Geneva Convention.

      Report Post » Latter-Day-Soldier  
    • Elena2010
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:52pm

      @ Tea – most assault rifles use .223/5.56 or 7.62 ammo, not .40 cal, which is similar to the 9 mm round. Assault rifles are the more dangerous of the two guns given to the cartels by our idiots in DC.

      Report Post » Elena2010  
    • PALEHORSE
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:58pm

      .40 cal is the standard issue throughout DHS. This allows for only one round needed throughout multiple agencies within DHS. It also eliminates the problem, in case there is a need for agents in a battle, of multiple different calibers being used so magazines can be shared if needed. And it eliminates the problem of excess ammo that will not be used.

      Report Post »  
    • US-First
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:06pm

      Hollow points in civilian service are used to reduce collateral damage. A cop may have to shoot a perp in a public location or within a structure that has innocent lives in adjacent rooms. If the hallow hits the perp is will not exit to cause unintended damage to an innocent. If it misses a perp it will hopefully hit a wall and again not go through to harm an innocent. That to me is humane.

      Why they are considered inhumane by Geneva likely has to do more with the fact that Geneva only concerns itself with the rights and treatment of combatants in war, not civilians and not in peace.

      Report Post »  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:07pm

      450 million rounds of ammunition and 300 million US citizens. The math doesn’t look good…

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:21pm

      “U.S. agents will receive a maximum of 450 million rounds over a five-year period.”

      And Obama wants how many more years as POTUS? 5 years? Again, the math doesn’t look good…

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • mikem1969
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 12:20am

      And so now that DHS knows we are prepped and ready to defend ourselves from illegal government actions, they are stocking up on ammo.

      Report Post »  
    • NancyBee
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 12:32am

      Ya’ll are scaring me………..

      Report Post » NancyBee  
    • rawmilker
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 1:05am

      Yes I agree with PATRICK HENRY, that they are planning on coming after us with the hollow point rounds.

      Anyone know if the DHS issues the MP-5′s chambered in .40? If they plan on engaging ‘we the people’ with .40 cal, they better hope to get us within 75 yards & if they think we’re going to sit back and wait for them to come to us when the shtf, they’d best think again.

      rawmilker  
    • charleyrocks
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 6:15am

      Step one get rid of the gun..

      Report Post » charleyrocks  
    • Bum thrower
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:32am

      Good insite. I personally don’t like the .40. Ammo is expensive if you practice a lot or shoot IPSC or IDPA….9mm is the least expensive…..and is effective; worked okay for Zimmeman…LOL

      Report Post »  
    • jzs
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:57am

      Obama is planning to become absolute dictator. Why else would he need the ammo? Think people!

      Report Post » jzs  
    • thejackal
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:59am

      @ US First……. Ahhhhhhh, wrong. Hollow points are not used to reduce collateral damage. That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. Hollow points are used to kill the perp more quickly. The wound cavity it creates displaces more tissue and often causes such massive tramua the target dies almost instantly. It has NOTHING to do with protecting the public from over penetrating rounds. If that were the case they’d be shooting Glaser Safty Slugs. You are just dumb.

      Report Post » thejackal  
    • Suchy
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 11:02am

      I wonder how they will handle double ot buck.

      Report Post » Suchy  
    • Halloween
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 11:45am

      @ THE JACKAL— Over-penetration IS a problem that causes collateral damage. If the department was only interested in the most power available with no regard for collateral damage, they would be using the .357 Sig. The .40 HST is an outstanding man-stopper that I have seen the effects of with my own eyes.

      Report Post » Halloween  
    • USAPLISKENXI
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 12:38pm

      Correct! don’t go off the deep end on this one DHS is hiring Men and women to man our border just like “WE” wanted and it takes all kinds of supplies to pull this off I see this every day at work.
      We all took an oath to protect and defend and we do, so don’t be alarmed hard to do without the tools.

      Report Post » USAPLISKENXI  
    • Warwagon
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 2:48pm

      ATK just closed one of it’s factories in Wi. ATK is an Anoka, Minnesota co, and is closing the plant in Brice Prairie, Wi near LaCrosse, and its plant in Fenton, Mo.

      Report Post »  
    • GRusling
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 3:54pm

      Law Enforcement, at all levels spend a lot of time and “rounds” practicing for contingencies, and each officer has to re-qualify every six months to keep their job. Believe me, all of us want those officers to be able to hit what they shoot at, not just spray bullets around the landscape. Considering the large number of federal officers (like Border Patrol) who fall under the umbrella of “Homeland Security” these days, this is not a lot of ammo for them to use…

      Report Post »  
    • turkey13
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 6:30pm

      It’s all because the African Americans and Obama have thrown their Latino Brothers under the bus in Florida. If the Latinos start shooting Obama wants to make sure they can fight back. Here in Oklahoma a bunch of ammo is still on backorder. The Amo Plant at McCalister, Ok. has been running 24/7 since Obama was elected.

      Report Post »  
    • drago
      Posted on April 1, 2012 at 9:10am

      They can have all the pistol ammo they want, they wont get close enough to use it………..

      Report Post »  
    • Aquinas
      Posted on April 1, 2012 at 4:37pm

      I think it’s curious, really. They don’t shoot at anyone we would wish them too, so i think they are probably meant for us.

      Report Post »  
    • ninja-rat-killer
      Posted on April 1, 2012 at 9:26pm

      Zombie attacks?

      Report Post »  
    • sambachico
      Posted on April 2, 2012 at 12:20am

      This is easy. Eric Holder is doing a Fast and Furious part deux and sending them down south of the border. Nothing happened to him the first go-around, so why not continue the madness.

      Report Post » sambachico  
    • SavvyCowboy
      Posted on April 2, 2012 at 9:11am

      @Elena2010 – Having well over 20 years of service in the U.S. Army I can say with great confidence you are incorrect with your claim that 7.62 is close to 9mm. 5.56 and 7.62 are both metric measurements thus if one used a calculator (or piece of paper) and subtracted either of those measurements from 9 mm you’d see there is a huge difference. In addition the 9mm round packs a lot less powder than either 5.56 or 7.62 and therefore packs a lot less punch. A 40mm round is closer to a .45 cal albeit smaller. Given a choice I would prefer a 7.62 mm assualt rifle or for close quarter a 10 gauge or 12 gauge shot gun with a 20″ barrel and 00 buckshot. Messy yes but at least I get to go home alive. :)

      Report Post » SavvyCowboy  
    • supermansdad
      Posted on April 6, 2012 at 10:06am

      @ Patrick Henry II

      HP ammo is NOT oulawed for use by the military. Trust me, as a former Army MP I carried 115gr Win JHP +P+ every day. It only forbids their use during a declared war while on foregin soil.

      Report Post »  
    • bigezzz1
      Posted on May 11, 2012 at 1:35pm

      do you know anything about evacuation routes out of chicago to wisconsin when nato meets in november? im looking for information on this as to why we need an evacuation route.

      Report Post »  
    • F.Peabody
      Posted on June 29, 2012 at 11:17pm

      Negative: for certain the 1811′s (criminal investigators) in HSI-ICE (not sure about the jailers, deportation guys and other non-investigators) have not been issued the 155 grain ammo for years. 180 grain Federal HST is standard issue since about 2009 or 2010. On the other side, some CBP offices issued the horrendous 135 grain .40 load as recently as 2007. Not sure what they use now, but 155 would have actually been an improvement for those guys. This story is a distraction/ non-issue. The same people here who are worried about this recent purchase contract are usually the biggest ammo whores of all.

      Report Post »  
    • watersRpeople
      Posted on August 15, 2012 at 5:57pm

      Ready for me to weigh in? You‘ll probably say I’m full of it because you each have your own arrogant opinion that you like to say and then eat your own words because you like the taste, but here goes. Maybe they have an agreement with the government to stop producing ammo if the government buys so much of it.

      Report Post »  
    • Ironeagle
      Posted on August 15, 2012 at 7:22pm

      Good insight…the most plausable explanation I’ve heard so far. I’m learning to do my own reloading.

      Report Post » Ironeagle  
  • Micah.Stone
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:25pm

    Why Is Homeland Security Buying 450 Million Rounds of Hollow Point Bullets?
    ANSWER: Each conservative American will eventually get two. First the heart, then the head.

    Report Post » Micah.Stone  
    • teamarcheson
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:32pm

      Why hasn’t your postings been deleted yet. I have written the same thing any my comments disappear.

      Report Post »  
    • HumbleMan
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:48pm

      Was thinking about the same.

      Report Post » HumbleMan  
    • xXMilitiaOfOneXx
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:50pm

      Can’t telling if trolling or really stupid…

      Report Post » xXMilitiaOfOneXx  
    • lukerw
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 7:54pm

      Fix your MindSet: 1776; the Government is the British, under a King… who wants to Increase Taxes, negate American Opinion, arrest Church Leaders, and confiscate Guns & Ammo…

      Report Post » lukerw  
    • Celeste.Christi
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 7:58pm

      They won’t waste one in the heart. Double Tap.

      Report Post » Celeste.Christi  
    • NickyD
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:54pm

      MICAH.STONE
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:25pm
      Why Is Homeland Security Buying 450 Million Rounds of Hollow Point Bullets?
      ANSWER: Each conservative American will eventually get two. First the heart, then the head.
      —————————————————————————-
      You’d better aim well, Micah. If you miss with the first round, you’re going to meet two rounds, minimum, of
      357 Mag.

      Report Post »  
    • AgentK
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 5:31pm

      Did you ever think that most of the DHS agents and officers are conservative like you? I know I wouldn‘t shoot USC’s and I’m sure our military and other agencies feels the same. I’m sure if things get that bad the government is going to have a real problem of conservative government employees turning sides. Sort of like a sleeper cell of conservatives.

      Report Post »  
    • OneSheepDog
      Posted on April 1, 2012 at 8:14am

      A show of O’s muscle. Do you really think “mom” knows what the “f” to do with it? Maybe they think there will be some sort of up rising of the Uslumnic groups or terrorists groups or maybe some sort of unrest after the election of a new Prez.. Doesn’t matter, we ought to all buy guns that use .40 cal ammo as it falls to the ground in surplus form. Do the math…let’s say 200 mil firearm owners have a min. of a modest 2K rounds on hand, hmmm, Doesn’t look good for the oppressors. Just sayin’…enjoy your practice and live your dreams

      Report Post »  
    • SavvyCowboy
      Posted on April 2, 2012 at 10:15am

      @micah.stone – that will happen only if we allow it to happen. If those boys show up at my place I certainly hope they’ve said good-bye to their families and made peace with their maker. “Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun And you might meet ‘em both if you show up here not welcome son …” (from “Way Out Here” written and performed by Josh Thompson).

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWPq0uOky4

      Report Post » SavvyCowboy  
  • smokey67
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:22pm

    The federal fiscal year goes from October 1 through September 30. Usually excess funds by government agencies are not spent until near the end of the fiscal year. It would be poor management money to spend “excess funds” in the middle of the fiscal year, because unanticipated financial needs may arise during the year. But the we are talking about the federal government. Government and poor management are pretty much one in the same!

    Report Post »  
    • Mateytwo Barreett
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:52pm

      Whats this fiscal year stuff- does that have something to to so with those old fashioned bugethingys?

      Report Post » Mateytwo Barreett  
    • Elena2010
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:55pm

      Naw, end of year usually starts in Jun/Jul time frame. This is a little early to say it’s year end dump money though. By August, you were left w/impress funds to get stuff you needed. That‘s why so many 01’s came to my office to barter for copy paper — I stocked up for year end ahead of the game. heh heh heh — I loved my time working for the Top Chop at Newport! I learned so much abt how the system works.

      Report Post » Elena2010  
    • starman70
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 8:45am

      SPEND EXCESS FUNDS? Instead, why don’t they return excess funds back to the treasury?

      It is a standard operating procedeure among ALL government entities that if there are unspent funds they must be spent and not returned to the Federal, State, County or City treasuries because the bureaucratic idiots who run these departments fear that if excess money is returned, that their bugeted money for the next year will be cut.

      Oh,and the DHS buying all that ammo? How better to control the sheeple!

      Report Post »  
    • Suchy
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 11:25am

      The parking lot at Wright field in Dayton Ohio is probably 3 feet thick. Gota spend all the budget else it gets cut.

      Report Post » Suchy  
    • WakingSheep
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 12:03pm

      @starman70
      Ron Paul is the only one in our wonderful government that sends back excess funds at the end of the year.

      Report Post »  
    • supermansdad
      Posted on April 6, 2012 at 10:15am

      The HECK Paul does! His district has increased 400% the amount of federal spending in the last 10 years. He is a nice guy, intelligent (though he strikes me as the {R] version of Kucinich) but he is still human, therefore fallen. He is far from perfect. Even he has put aside his “deeply held personal convictions” to get what he needed. When somebody is 90% right they are still wrong, when that portion that is wrong is dangerous I will vote for the guy that is less dangerous but only 80% right.

      Report Post »  
  • kickagrandma
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:19pm

    WHY did the ammo folks sell to homeland insecurity esp. since they know they are not on our side? “Our side” being WE THE PEOPLE? Left up to me, I would have lost the bid somewhere in the clutter on my desk, wouldn’t you?

    Report Post »  
    • roughneck.seay
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:20pm

      Right on!

      Report Post » roughneck.seay  
    • shotzie
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:30pm

      @KICKAGRANDMA – why didn’t they lose the bid on their desk? $$$$$$$$

      Report Post » shotzie  
    • 4GODUSAANDISRAEL
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 10:38pm

      Atk is the largest munitions manufacturer in the world. Most of our contracts are in the form of government contracts, both American, and foreign, as well as a lot of law enforcement. As of right now, the government hasn’t actually ordered the 450 million rounds, they’ve entered into a contract that guarantees the price and product for up to 450 million rounds or 5 years, which ever comes first. And plus this is adding jobs. My plant is poised to add 40 plus more jobs as well as more to come with further expansion. Plus why wouldn‘t the gov’t choose atk rounds. For both rifle and hand gun, they are the most dependable rounds on the market.

      Report Post » 4GODUSAANDISRAEL  
    • bobmcgus
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 3:28am

      WE THE PEOPLE… are in it for our rights, companies are in it for the money.
      Always follow the cash… you will find the answer, even if it‘s not what you’re looking for.

      Report Post » bobmcgus  
    • zman173rd
      Posted on April 1, 2012 at 12:05pm

      @ 4GODUSANDISRAEL:
      I understand your point. However it does seem that if you benifit from this contract than it’s okay with you. If YOUR comapny can potentially hire 40 more than it‘s good for business and so again it’s okay with you. Again, What’s wrong with the country today? Me Me ME , gimme gimme GIMME. As long as I get my cut I don’t care what happens to anyone else?

      Report Post » zman173rd  
  • The_Jerk
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:17pm

    “Why Is Homeland Security Buying 450 Million Rounds of Hollow Point Bullets?”

    They know we’re coming.

    Report Post »  
    • neidermeyer
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 7:25pm

      Someone please inform the headline writer that I‘m pretty sure they’re buying completed ROUNDS of ammunition , not just the BULLET portion.

      Report Post » neidermeyer  
    • MAMMY_NUNN
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 10:55pm

      Hey you have to give Barry’s private army some ammo otherwise the guns would be useless.

      Report Post »  
    • robh
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 12:38am

      They might REALLY know we are coming (not really “coming” but “defending”) . . . and when We The People, mostly with 9mm commandeer their ammunition, it will be incompatible with many of our sidearms.

      I agree with the .556 and 7.62 theory that Espada wisely predicts (below).

      Report Post » robh  
  • xXMilitiaOfOneXx
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:16pm

    The real question is, how many bullets has DHS and ICE gone through in the past? How much do they use on a yearly basis? What are they shooting? Maybe they are preparing for social unrest or martial law. Maybe they are getting ready to fight those who will not comply. Maybe its nothing malicious towards the United States citizens at all; but if this is something malicious, instead of buying bullets they need to buy body bags for THIER people. Americans won’t go down without a fight!!

    Report Post » xXMilitiaOfOneXx  
    • Mateytwo Barreett
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:59pm

      @Kaydebeau
      I wouldn’t think that would be their intention.

      Report Post » Mateytwo Barreett  
    • kaydeebeau
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 7:31pm

      It may not be their intention but if we all have the courage to stand that could be their reality….What are they gonna do? Subdue and detain 2/3 of the citizenry? I do realize that many do not have the courage of their stated convictions…none the less…

      Report Post » kaydeebeau  
    • davecoolworld
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:39pm

      Please remember the oath. It means all to most of us. I figure no more than 15% of any troop, civilian or military will follow an illegal order.
      Don’t count other the very real possibility of a military coup.
      When the S hits the fan, those rounds will be readily available to all Patriots from like minded troops.
      The Martial Law thing that is being set up will not go the way they plan. Our Republic will survive, bruised, but intact…and perhaps stronger than ever.
      Future historians will not be kind to us for allowing this to happen.

      Report Post » davecoolworld  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 10:53pm

      “The real question is, how many bullets has DHS and ICE gone through in the past? How much do they use on a yearly basis”

      That is a very good question.

      If they answered that, what would the next question be & would they answer it?

      At the least are we talking about waste & at worst we are talking about …

      Report Post »  
    • bobmcgus
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 3:42am

      davecoolworld

      That depends on how you look at things, ALL our troops engaged in war right now are fighting and dieing in undeclared illeagal actions. They all swore too, but obey the superiors instead of the constitution. Can you be so sure they will not fight their own? I choose to be prepared, hoping it’s all in waste, but not so sure as you. Peace freind…

      Report Post » bobmcgus  
  • momsense
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:15pm

    Don’t forget that Obozo and his criminals can hold you without trial indefinately and that they can now raid your home, listen to your phone calls and invade you privacy and no one will be there to stick up for you or protect you.

    Report Post »  
  • Todd P
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:14pm

    Dark days are ahead for the USA.

    Report Post »  
  • Claticfire
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:09pm

    I have heard too many stories from law enforcement of tweekers taking 4 or more rounds of .40S&W and keep on coming. ICE you can keep the .40S&W. I will stick with a .45ACP, why? Cus they don’t make a .46 ;)

    Report Post »  
    • teamarcheson
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:28pm

      The Hollow Point Round Is Outlawed In War By The Geneva Convention, Why?

      A military round rotates as it travels through the air at about 15,000 rpm. When a hollow point round hits flesh it begins to spread open like a flower but the metal petals of this flower shaped round is razor sharp. Its a razor sharp pin wheel rotating through a body at 15,000 rpm. The hollow point creates all kinds of damage to its human target and actually whips the insides of a body like a cake mixer. It is intended to create horrible wounds that cannot be treated. Surgeons risk cutting their fingers while removing the razor sharp hollow point rounds or fragments of this bullet.

      The US Government intends using these hollow point rounds on American citizens that would be legal under the Geneva Convention since their use in a war would be a War Crime.

      You should begin to think about what Obama has planned for “his” nation.

      Report Post »  
    • climbnjump
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:38pm

      Well, actually they DO make a “.46″, the S&W .460 Magnum. It’s a bit much for a self defense round, however…

      Report Post »  
    • Mateytwo Barreett
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:58pm

      heh-heh-BUT they do make a .50!!! Personally, I like diversity .50, .45, .44 .40, 357, and even the putsy little 9mm.

      Report Post » Mateytwo Barreett  
    • DesdemonasCrew
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:18pm

      No, but they do make a 454 casull and a 500 caliber wyoming express. Both capable of penetrating and taking out an engine block.
      Don’t dis the 40. a 180 grain hollow point is quite effective.

      Report Post » DesdemonasCrew  
    • AgentK
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 5:34pm

      But they do make a 50!

      Report Post »  
    • 1Crystal1
      Posted on April 1, 2012 at 12:14am

      22 cal. solids, then 22 cal. hollow pts. they sting real good. for long distance .270 win’s, they do a fine job.

      Report Post » 1Crystal1  
  • urn
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:09pm

    The big question is why .40 cal.Somebody screwed up again.

    Report Post »  
    • Mateytwo Barreett
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 7:12pm

      Could it be that the .40 is not a real popular caliber in the civilian market? .357/.38 ,45 ans 9mm.seems to be the most common. Lock up production for a while, and slow down manufacture of those common rounds above?
      I’m the only person I know that has a .40.

      Report Post » Mateytwo Barreett  
    • Mateytwo Barreett
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 7:20pm

      Except for cops.

      Report Post » Mateytwo Barreett  
    • DesdemonasCrew
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:09pm

      and me

      Report Post » DesdemonasCrew  
    • Elena2010
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:58pm

      Matey — the 9 mm is so much cheaper to feed your piece.

      Report Post » Elena2010  
  • republitarian
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:05pm

    “The idea being that if an agency does not use its entire budget in expenditures, the government will lower its budget the following year.”

    This is a huge problem in our government. Military included. We have got to find incentives for those who control the departmental budgets to spend less.

    Report Post » republitarian  
    • Ruler4You
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:24pm

      This “IS” insane on 3 points. 1). 450 Million bullets for Homeland Security? What for? They don’t do ANY law enforcement that I can tell. Since they have been formed they’ve done literally, nothing except suck money from the general fund. 2). “Just” to spend?!?!? What?!?!? nuf said. 3). Just on the face of the idea alone, it’s insane.

      Now, to get practical. The anti gun dip sticks in the administration are talking about manufacturing ammo that expires and or ‘decays’ over time. “Ordering ahead of time” would ensure ‘government’ has ammo that citizens won’t have access to. They have even recently considered making ammo illegal by making certain ‘portions’ of the components illegal to own or manufacture.

      IMHBLO, I suspect that these regulations have already been drawn up and are sitting on a desk waiting for the opportunity to sneak them through, in a sneaky legislative process that seems to have become the SOP for congress in the last several years.

      Report Post » Ruler4You  
    • devildogger
      Posted on April 2, 2012 at 1:21am

      The monies are spent because if they aren’t the dept budget is cut the following year. Familiarize yourself with the term base line budgeting and you should begin to get an idea of why this country is on the verge of economic collapse. This is the fiscal insanity which MUST be stopped, or the dollar will end up like the mark.

      Report Post »  
  • dominke
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:03pm

    The government is getting ready for combat with the citizens of USA. This fall Obama will call for martial law and United States Of American will be fighting for freedom on our own land. Thank your liberal democrats and some republicans but remember who are your friends. Cleansing USA and removing the cancer liberals have is very important if we want freedom and liberty.

    Report Post » dominke  
    • Patrick Henry II
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:52pm

      Washington deported Loyalists.

      Report Post » Patrick Henry II  
    • Espada
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 7:54pm

      You’re right, I believe… and just like everything else the government does, they’ve screwed it up. When TSHTF, gov’t toads with .40 pistols will be facing angry white men with 5.56′s and 7.62′s at somewhat longer ranges than the .40 is designed for.

      Report Post »  
    • GPS-Tech
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 3:25am

      5.56 Penetrator

      Report Post » GPS-Tech  
    • ZZBlueComet
      Posted on August 16, 2012 at 12:51am

      Travelling trough the airports, seeing almost half the soldiers wearing “Perez”, “Hernandez” etc. on their uniforms and seeing many other soldiers of other colors, and knowing all the dividing Obama’s doing, along with practical amnesty to illegals. I have to ask the question, will the miliary follow Obama, if he sicks them on us or will the military divide?

      Report Post » ZZBlueComet  
  • db321
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:03pm

    Hard to tell who approved this because we have Speaker Boehner curled up in the corner crying like a little sissy – afraid he might make Obama mad if he says something.

    Other than Ryan and Rubio – has anyone seen our Conservative Congressmen and Senators doing anything lately. I guess we will see them pop up after Obama visits the Tornado ravaged South!

    Report Post » db321  
  • USMC0331
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:01pm

    Glad I sold my 40…and bought a 45 1911!!!

    Report Post »  
    • Teufel Hunden
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:39pm

      In the scheme of things, there are not many 45′s still in service. So if you are planning to participate in any long term domestic campaign, wouldn’t you want your arsenal to include something in the current flavor? Something readily accessible? This applies to brand as much as caliber. Don’t lose sight of the fact that in any sustained action, spare parts and ammo are gold!

      Semper fi!

      Report Post » Teufel Hunden  
    • Sharpsguy
      Posted on May 19, 2012 at 1:01pm

      There are something like 16 companies currently producing 1911 .45 ACP pistols. They ARE far more prevalent in the private citizens’ hands than the .40 S&W caliber. The law enforcement agencies have about all adopted the .40 S&W following FBI development designs. The .40′s carry almost as many rounds as their ineffective 9 mm did, and are very close to .45 ACP in smack-down power. It works when the chips are down and the baddie needs to be PUT DOWN! But civilians buy their 1911′s constantly and this John Browning design has never been more popular.

      Sharpsguy

      Report Post »  
  • campt1
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:01pm

    Marshall law.

    Report Post » campt1  
    • txjb
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:10pm

      Exactly ! no election in 2012 , ows causing trouble on purpose so this can be done .

      Report Post »  
    • Todd P
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:12pm

      …it’s coming!

      Report Post »  
  • rbcintexas
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:00pm

    They are trying to create a shortage where gun owners will either not be able to find the ammunition or will not be able to afford much of it. It is a form of gun control without being called such.

    Report Post » rbcintexas  
    • Micmac
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:40pm

      This is my 1st thought, too.

      NoBama 2012

      Report Post »  
    • Mateytwo Barreett
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 7:06pm

      It’ll be a WHILE before most folks I know will have to restock. You’d swear to God some of them were Indians(fond of brass)!

      Report Post » Mateytwo Barreett  
  • BOMUSTGO
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 6:00pm

    Nice! Using our tax dollars to buy bullets for when they declare Martial Law.Step back and you can see the big picture. They are getting everything in order now. They already declared that they can detain us os shoot us for no reason.

    Report Post » BOMUSTGO  
    • michalin
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 9:53am

      I hope you are prepared! Good gun control is imperative! You need good ammo when the garbage hit the fan. You also need to be able to hit what you’re aiming at. Last but not least, if you use 40s and run out, you’ll know where to find them.

      Report Post »  
  • DesdemonasCrew
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 5:58pm

    Glenn talked about the additional cost of FMJHP over other loads. I pay about 2.5 cents more per round for self defense (hollow point) rounds over target rounds (FMJ) rounds when buying 500 rounds at a pop.
    That means we spent $11,250,000 extra for the hollow points. I’m sure they get a better price, but ?

    Report Post » DesdemonasCrew  
    • hartgh
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 11:30am

      What is a FMJHP? Full Metal Jacket Hollow Point? Kinda like saying drywater, isn’t it? That’s an oxymoron. I’ve been selling guns and ammo commercially for over 11 years and have never heard of a FMJHP.

      Report Post »  
    • DesdemonasCrew
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 5:25pm

      I was drunk when I wrote that. Should be jacketed hollow point! My bad.

      Report Post » DesdemonasCrew  
  • opinionista
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 5:57pm

    Whatever explanation they give, there’s a 99% chance it is not the complete truth.

    Report Post »  
  • drhunt
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 5:57pm

    It’s not the .40 cal hollow points that are the problem…it’s the primers, which are the same for 9mm cartridges as well. The .40 cal is not a very popular round, but the 9mm certainly is. This will put a serious shortage of primers for reloaders of 9mm, plus drive up the cost. They know what’s coming…

    Report Post » drhunt  
    • hartgh
      Posted on March 31, 2012 at 11:38am

      The .40 S&W is not a very popular round??? Well….in December 1989 it wasn’t, that was a month before it’s introduction. It has since become second ONLY to 9mm in popularity. It’s rise in popularity is unparalleled in modern firearms history. Slightly more that half of the law enforcement agencies in America now issue .40 S&W guns as standard equipment. But what do I know, I’ve only been selling guns for 11 years.

      Report Post »  
  • Baddoggy
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 5:56pm

    Buy all you want. I have enough. UYou can make the prices go through the roof, will not effect me. I prepared for the Government takeover.
    Some of us plan on shooting back when you finally announce martial law…

    Report Post » Baddoggy  
  • lylejk
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 5:55pm

    A bullet in the head for every non-compliant American (i.e., an American who’s a true patriot). :)

    Report Post » lylejk  
  • ZAP
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 5:55pm

    Almost 2 bullets per person.That sounds about right !

    Report Post » ZAP  
  • Secret Squirrel
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 5:53pm

    .
    Perhaps they know not all citizens will not
    go quietly to the “re-education” camps.

    Report Post » Secret Squirrel  
    • gdogle9155
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 7:31pm

      Secret Squirrel

      Did you serve in the military, ie korea in the early 70′s

      Report Post » gdogle9155  
    • Celeste.Christi
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:05pm

      Why re-educate? Why feed? Why house? A hole in the ground is cheaper by far.

      Report Post » Celeste.Christi  
    • Dushman Kush
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 10:12pm

      America’s churches and schools have re-educated Americans already. Homeland Security may well be the Agency assigned to collect the guns.

      Report Post » Dushman Kush  
  • Sirfoldallot
    Posted on March 30, 2012 at 5:53pm

    The question should be , who in the hell approved this ?

    Report Post » Sirfoldallot  
    • TSUNAMI-22
      Posted on March 30, 2012 at 5:58pm

      Who ever needed approval in this administration, or any for that matter?

      Report Post »  
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