Worship Wars: Is the Worst Fight in Your Church Over the Style of Music?
- Posted on November 27, 2011 at 11:57am by
Billy Hallowell
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There’s a war brewing inside of U.S. churches. While some congregants prefer the beat-bopping sounds of electric guitars, drums and fast-paced tunes, others seek a more traditional worship experience. The divide, which often hinges upon age and personal music taste, only seems to be intensifying — especially as churches seek to modernize and attract younger audiences.
According to the USA Today, nearly 50 percent of Protestant churches are now reporting that they use electric guitars or drums during worship. This proportion has grown from 35 percent back in 2000, according to a 2010 Faith Communities Today study of 14,000 congregations across America.
While this may seem like a silly argument, there are many who feel passionately that music should be kept traditional, with a focus upon worshiping God and not engaging in the frills of percussion and guitar strumming. On the flip side, others claim that it’s necessary to change with the times. The beats and guitar jingles, they say, simply come with the territory of modernization.
But Rick Muchow, the pastor of Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church, says, “The Bible does not have an official soundtrack…There are all different kinds of churches for different kinds of people. We don’t worship music, we worship God.”
This essentially means that there’s no right way to worship the Almighty through music. Some churches, though, recognizing the sensitivity inherent in churchgoers’ prerogatives, have begun to host “themed” services.
Saddleback, for instance, runs services that focus upon various genres of music. According to Muchow, his church offers gospel, rock, alternative and traditional services. Depending on one’s age and musical taste, these options would offer a more copacetic worship experience.
But there are plenty of pastors who would disagree with Saddleback’s musical selections. These much more conservative houses of worship would contend that traditional music is the way to go. Pastor David Cloud, for instance, believes that drifting away from traditional worship may have spiritual side effects.
Republican presidential hopeful, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, plays bass guitar with the praise band at the Apostolic Church of Auburn Hills in Auburn Hills, Mich. Sunday, Jan. 13, 2008.(AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
“There is an intense war being waged today for the heart and soul of Bible-believing churches, and one of the Devil’s most effective Trojan horses is music,” he says.
Cloud has gone so far as to launch a web directory that lists Independent Baptist Churches in North America that pledge to stick to the King James Version of the Bible. Additionally, the listed houses of worship ban any and all contemporary music.
This battle is likely to continue raging, especially as contemporary music continues to increase in popularity. What do you think — should churches focus more upon traditional, contemporary or a mixture of the two? Take the poll:
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Comments (647)
Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:53pmIf you are fighting over music then there are bigger battles that need to be fought, or are already lost.
There is a difference between music styles. Some music IS objectively better and more Christian than others, but if disagreements about this are causing division then there are already some in the church whose spiritual loyalties have already been compromised.
I like a lot of contemporary Chirstian music but have problems with it as worship music because so much of it is worshipper centered. It’s all about US as worshipers. “WE are here to worship you Lord”, “WE light our hearts to you”, “WE feel your presence” etc. So little of the music is focussed upon the Lord’s glory, praising Him for HIS greatness rather than for how we feel about Him.
And this is all besides the theological blandness of so much of the music, not to mention the musical repetitiveness.
Report Post »YAHSHUARULES
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:12pmYou are absolutely right about “me” or “us” centered as opposed to “Thee” centered. Most contemporary I don’t like. There is a church World Revival in Kansas City however I have attended several times and they only use “contemporary” but it is centered toward Him. The worship leader has said he doesn’t care what you want – its what HE wants and its his job to unifiy the body in that direction. True worship is Christ centered. And there is a difference between Praise and Worship. Praise is “outer court” “Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.” Ps 100v4, and Ps 95v2 “Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms“ however worship is an ”inner court“ experience in Chronicles and Nehemiah it speaks of ”and they bowed their heads and worshiped the Lord. Ps 29v2 says “worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.“ Ps 95v6 ”let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker”
Report Post »Better yet is the music of someone like Paul Wilbur a Messianic Jew who started out wanting to be a cantor and now leads worship around the world. He sings to the Lord and brings you with his worship into the very presence of the Almighty. Its not the style but rather the spirit that is animating the style and all to often its the spirt of the world and not the Holy Spirit in churches today with noise and no anointing and no signs and wonders, no hea
YAHSHUARULES
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:28pmto finish my thought: Its not the style but rather the spirit that is animating the style and all to often its the spirt of the world and not the Holy Spirit in churches today with noise and no anointing and no signs and wonders, no healings, no deliverances – appearance of holiness but lacking the power thereof. And when it comes to traditional hymns no one knows more of them or has them in his service then Benny Hinn, he knows how to worship, he knows the difference between praise and worship -He preaches the blood and cross – and there you see the full power of God manifested with the preaching of the uncompromised word and signs and wonders follow: “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. Mark 16v15-20
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:12amActually there shouldn’t be any debate about what music is acceptable to the Lord. He tells us exactly how to worship Him through His word and it’s not with guitars and trumpets and pianos. There is no authority for such instruments.
Ephesians 5:19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord,
Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
There is no New Testament example of the 1st century Christians using mechanical instruments but there is authority for us to sing, nothing more. So I would suggest that if anyone has a problem with guitars being brought into worship services you need to realize that once mechanical instruments have been brought in there‘s no room to tell someone they can’t bring in a tuba or a drumset or disco lights, the flood gate has been opened. The only way to stop it is to go back to the Bible and do as God’s word tells us to which is to sing.
Report Post »yiddishlion
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:36amIt all comes down to one thing……is the music edifying?
Report Post »Againstallenemies
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 4:05am@ Scarebear.
Psalm 150
1 Praise the LORD.[a]
Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens.
2 Praise him for his acts of power;
praise him for his surpassing greatness.
3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,
4 praise him with timbrel and dancing,
praise him with the strings and pipe,
5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.
6 Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.
See, we can all take sections of bible out of context.
Report Post »BlindSquirrel57
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 6:57amIt’s funny that people will say “no instruments” or “drums and electric guitars don’t belong in the church” but they don’t mind using electric lights and climate control devices. Not to mention the PA to get the preacher’s voice loud enough to be heard.
The word of God says “by his stripes we are healed..” does that mean we shouldn’t use any meds or see a doctor just because Asprin or Dr. whats his name is not directly mentioned in the Bible? I think not. If someone in a church is trying to direct a certain type of music to be played it’s simply because its what THEY like, it has nothing to do with whats acceptable worship. Didn‘t God say if we didn’t worship him he would cause the rocks to do it?, can you imagine what that would sound like??
Report Post »Jezcruzen
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 7:47amThe local mega-church that my father attends always is getting complaints from the older members over the music – loud and too contemporary. Over there, Sunday services are a big production stage show – various bands, orchestra, a “worship leader” (whatever the hell THAT is). Due to broadcast time schedules and the integration of all this entertainment, actual preaching only lasts about 15 – 20 minutes. Preaching is also limited to what I would describe as “feel good” Christianity… hardly what is needed to convict a sinner’s soul and bring them to YASHUA. I’m a none church going follower of YASUHA. Contemporary “churches” actually make my skin crawl. And the infusion in many “fundamentalist” churches of the false rapture doctrine (planted by satan himself) is reason enough to give them a wide berth.
Report Post »motonutt
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 9:54amOne reason I don’t attend a church on a regular basis is the music. And when I do attend I come in late after the music is over, or almost over. I think there are to many that attend just for the music. Then after ther music is over and the sermon starts the arm waving worshipers tune out.
I also hate when a pastor cut’s his sermon short to extend the music, which happens often in my expieriance. So many people nowday’s come just to hear the music that now the sermons are cut so as not to offend the music lovers.
I have also found that some of the band members in a church begin to think of themselves as some kind of rock stars amoungst the congregation, like they are special celebrities.
At one church I attended the pastors wife was all about being the broadway musical star every week at church, it was sickening.
I attend church to worship, fellowship, and hear the word of God to be taught by the pastor or priest, not to attend a rock concert or broadway show!
Report Post »southcoast
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 11:20amI whole heartedly agree with the comment that the larger battle is lost in a battle over music. I no longer attend church regularly because I feel lost in a church service that has become a “feel good seminar” accompanied by a rock concert. I think no form of worship should be exempt whether it be contemporary music, dance, southern gospel, or traditional hyms. There should be something for all of the family of God. My heart longs for the little country church where we had guitars, drums, piano, even a banjo or mandolin sometimes. The rafters rang with congregational hyms of worship. Specials were sang by individuals with whatever the Lord had laid upon their heart. And the love for one another flowed like honey. The altar was open not only for salvation, but for needs of the congregation. And there was never a Sunday when the altar was not filled with people pouring their hearts out to God. Tears, blessings, and healings flowed abundantly. Sadly I have watched over the years as Jesus has slowly, quietly been removed from the church. How many churches can you walk into today and see a picture of the face of Christ? You will probably find a wooden cross. But where are the eyes of Christ that showed love, sufferering, peace? Sermons have become as inspiring as a tax seminar while they debate music style.
Report Post »Ming The Merciless
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:28pmISLESFORDIAN – There is a difference between music styles. Some music IS objectively better and more Christian than others,
MING – I would disagree about styles. What is the style of music Jesus’ choir/orchestra plays? We don’t know.
To say one style is more christian than the other is folly. There really is no ‘correct style’ to worship Christ. At least you can’t prove it (styles) from the Bible.
ISLESFORDIAN – I like a lot of contemporary Chirstian music but have problems with it as worship music because so much of it is worshipper centered. It’s all about US as worshipers. “WE are here to worship you Lord”, “WE light our hearts to you”, “WE feel your presence” etc. So little of the music is focussed upon the Lord’s glory, praising Him for HIS greatness rather than for how we feel about Him.
MING – I believe there‘s alot of songs that talk about Christ’s glory. It’s all what you want to find – if you look for it – it is there. You personally have an axe against CCM and therefore you have prejudices. That is obvious.
ISLESFORDIAN – And this is all besides the theological blandness of so much of the music, not to mention the musical repetitiveness.
MING – Many songs are bland in the theology dept but again it’s a song – songs are short. If you want theology – listen to a sermon. Musical repetiveness? So are hymns – they are usually only a page long – 20 bars in length (using 4/4 time). Repetitive!
Book suggestion: Joyful Noise – E
Report Post »Ming The Merciless
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:31pmThe book suggestion is – Joyful Noise by Ed Christian. you can get it on amazon.com
Report Post »rockstone
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:53pm@hallkbrdz clearly demonstrates why he/she is the problem and not the music itself with this statement:
“But to attract other people, we need to use what works”
The Word works hallkbrdz… the Word. If you are depending upon any type of music to enhance The Word, you simply don’t get it. The Word enhances the music… not the other way around. And if you can’t bring them in with The Word….. you don’t really have them there anyway.
Report Post »mrsalvage2
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:08pmyes, the battles against the Modernist/Protestant Liberalists feigning to be Christianity (See: Presbyterian J. Gresham machen’s Thesis from 1922), that one is lost.
There is also the battle agains the 25 Modernist imposter Bible’s feigning to be the HOLY BIBLE.
There is the battle of reasoning with the consumers of Imposters and unwitting followers of protestant Liberalism, for when they are even shown their Imposter equated Lucifer to JESUS stealing JESUS’ title from Revelations 22:16 to be Lucifer’s Title at Isaiah 14:12, they are still unconvinced that they hold a Satanic Book, and continue to follow his word “Yea, hath GOD saith…?”
Sad.
Used this expose 5 times this year. Only has worked instantly 3 times,
I suppose only 3 really loved G-D and wanted to know precisely what HE hashad to say, and know the words that begat the Great Awakening.
Report Post »Protoham
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:42pmIf you don’t like the music or the message go somewhere else. We had both Traditional and Contemporary in our church.
Report Post »tbconrad
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:32pmrockstone said “The Word enhances the music… not the other way around.” I would have to disagree with you. Praise and Worship music serves to usher in the presence of God during corporate worship and it sets the atmosphere for the message to be received. Generally a pastor will have a message and coordinate some of the worship music around that message.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:26pmProtestants be very careful. Separate theme-based services have the potential of dividing the family with the traditional music adults at one service and the younger family members at another.
Report Post »freeus
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 4:07pm@YIDDISHLION
Report Post »Edifying to whom? The Lord or the Cantor? Sometimes I find the music and singing such a distraction to my ability to worship. I liked it best when cantors and choirs were out of sight, in the loft at the back of the church. Frequently I try my best to block the music/cantors especially when they act all full of themselves. God help them.
Duaina
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 7:35pmI agree with your comments. Todays music is all about the congregation and people are losing sight of God in reality. The last days delusions will be satan’s greatest deceptions from With Inside the church and if you are not awake spiritually you WILL be decieved. I believe it is starting with the compromising in the Saddleback church because who would stand against a church so prominent and Worldly.
Report Post »khurley77
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 10:35pmI have been non denom rock and roll most of my life. more recentl I discovered the worship of Eastern Orthodoxy. The me centered contempo worship bothered me all that time, and I preferred God centered hymns. the ancient worship and hymnography of the Ortthodox Church (which has stubbornly refused to innovate to please the world) still blows me away. “When You submitted to death oh Immortal Life, You made death powerless by the radience of Your Divinty….” That being said, if we must change God’s Holy Church to appeal to the world, then we become more like the world, and less God’s Church. We have nothing to offer the world but a reflection of itself
Report Post »G.W. Dobbs
Posted on November 29, 2011 at 8:56amThank God I was raised up in a Southern Baptist Church and learned the hymnal of songs which comfort me as they PRAISE GOD, “The Old Rugged Cross, Just as I Am, Victory In Jesus, What a Friend We have In Jesus, Washed In The Blood of The Lamb, Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow”, and on and on. It PAINS me to see young New Christians NOT getting to learn these songs but dressing without respect for God in Church, Tatoos/ Piercings (forbidden, see Deut.), wearing their hair like “uni-sex“ and playng ROCK AND ROLL MUSIC calling it ”worship”. We need to be the SALT in the World and THINK, SPEAK, SING and ACT as God would be pleased. At the present, I see a marked DECLINE in reverence to Jehovah God, Jesus our Lord and Savior and the HOLY SPIRIT. God forgive us. Let us REPENT and FORGIVE US we pray in Jesus’ Name. AMEN.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on November 29, 2011 at 3:59pmBlaze, please let me post this comment, this is my 5th? attempt. I know the original posters probably won‘t read this but it is important to those who may come after and read these comments that they understand about true worship and what is and isn’t acceptable to God.
-Againstallenemies Sorry, I know I responded long ago but it seems to have disappeared. Anyway, do you sacrifice animals in your worship? Probably not. Why would you use Old Testament worship practices as examples for New Testament worship?
-BlindSquirrel57 “It’s funny that people will say “no instruments” or “drums and electric guitars don’t belong in the church” but they don’t mind using electric lights and climate control devices…”
These things are expedient. Incorporating instruments changes the nature of worship and is an addition to God’s word.
Report Post »sbenard
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:52pmThis article followed with a poll is a perfect example of how man is trying to transform God to please man, rather than transforming ourselves to please God. Music for worship should be music that is of a worshipful tone, cadence, and nature. It should not be to attract large audiences. Once we try to change the Church to please a mass audience, we have now entered the Devil’s lair; what WON’T we do just to get the vote in the latest populist poll? Will we also change the teachings and doctrines to meet attendance goals? That’s when we invite the Devil through the doorway!
In our Church, certain forms of music and instruments are discouraged because they aren’t of a worshipful nature. They don’t invite the Spirit of God; they drive it away! There is a whole lot of music that claims to be religious, but that drives away a spirit of holiness, reverence, and worship. That music is not divinely inspired!
Report Post »chunkstyle
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:35pmWhich ‘teachings and doctrines’ in the Bible talk about what kind of instruments and styles of worship are and aren’t allowed in worship?
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:57pmChunkstyle: the teachings and doctrines that speak on types of instruments allowed is called the BIBLE. You can find what the bible says on instrumental music if you open the bible and read it. You will find that the only place instrumental music is allowed is inside the Temple (not synagogues) and only allowed to be played by Livites.
Report Post »PingPongPing
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:11pmBaptists tend to like traditional forms of worship, yet they cannot deny the fact that king David worshipped with percussion instruments as written in the book of psalms.
Anyone can worship God, but that doesn’t mean that they can tell me how I worship my God.
Report Post »SHvnDave
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:24pmSt Benard – You are absolutely right! Lets get that newfangled Organ and Piano out of the Church and only allow the only biblical instrument – the lute. Oh, and the only songs to be sung in this pure church must be from the book of Psalms. No more of these contempory songs like “The Old Rugged Cross”, “Amazing Grace”, or “Nearer my God”.
May I suggest that – If you want to invite the spirit of God into your church – invite a Christian. This spirit of God which you seek will never be found in a building or in an Organ of 100,000 pipes – the Spirit of God lives within us the saints, and is manifest in fellowship between Christians. The music should be that which will facilitate fellowship.
The description of your church as you provided above is adequately described in Scripture – in Revelations 3:14 – in the letter to the seventh church. Yet you don’t realize that you are miserable, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked.
Report Post »tbconrad
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:40pm@SHvnDave well said.
Report Post »jsDway
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:13pmI agree with SBENARD! Worship music is not music that hypes the carnal man – it is music with a message that praises and brings us to a place in our hearts and minds that allows us to be still and absorb the WORDS that will be spoke by the Pastor of the Church. Youth rallys, sing alongs and etc. are places for the more upbeat (a little upbeat) music – rock should never be a part of any type of service! We have compromised away the true meaning of worship!
Report Post »ConservativeAndProud
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:20pmChunkstyle,
The Bible does provide many examples of what is correct and incorrect in worship. One of the biggest things is that WORSHIP must be reverent, orderly(regimented) and somber. I don’t believe anyone can state that most of the instrumental music in churches today is somber or reverent. Loud, rambunctious, joyful – yes. But, that isn’t what Jesus or the Apostles prescribed for the actual worship service.
By the way…is Church about what WE want or what GOD wants? Seems we have OWS type attitudes in our churches. Me, me, me…
Some historical evidence regarding this issue can be found in early Church Elders’ writings that clearly verifies that they were taught (some directly by the Apostles) that ANY instrument in worship or any type of theatrics was considered pagan and sinful.
Hebrews 12:28–29
Report Post »28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, 29 for our God is a consuming fire.
CyberJocky
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:48pm@Sbenard,
Report Post »I honestly don’t think God cares what music man uses to praise His name. Making a issue of this just shows how often man misses the point. God has been known to indulge man in the past, but the decision is His and His alone. Isn’t grace good enough?
Dootuz
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:59pmTake it as you may, I’m not religious, I follow Christ. He is LORD, and I don’t get caught up in the worldly ideas. You’re free to do whatever you want in your own church. If you don’t like what happens there, then find another. As for me, I follow what the Bible states, not the rules people make up…
John 4:23
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Report Post »CyberJocky
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:04pm@ConservativeAndProud
I agree and so does the Bible.
2 Timothy 2.23 – 2.26
23 Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:39pmLet me take this DEBATE …To a somewhat different perspective.
Turn on the “Christian” music channel on your cable if you have it.
Some of the music is BORDERLINE CHRISTIAN MUSIC. They doesn’t SPECIFICLALLY mention God or Jesus AND.. The lyrics can be interpreted as a song that you would sing to you girl friend . This is done on purpose, Why you might ask..? Because these musical artist cant get their foot in the door , in the secular music world. And they want their music to get play. And if that means playing under the disguise of Christian Music ,they will do it. They will change the name of the band ,singer ,music style .The idea is to become famous .The trick is to be played as a Christian song to get played but so vague it can be interpreted as a love song…
DO YOU SEE WHATS GOING ON NOW…!!! >>????
And if by chance it catches on and becomes popular .The regular music station will pick the song up with-out being labeled a CHRISTIAN SONG.
These are the songs that are being debated …!!!
Christians that have the spirit of discernment
know something is wrong ..
But cant quite put their finger on it..!!!
NOT THE OLD RUGGED CROSS…!!!
Not contemporary songs that specifically Praise God..!!
CONTINUE..
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:41pmCONTINUED..
Listen to the words of your modern Christian song.. If you can replace GOD with your girl friend boy friend dad mom or any body that is not our lord, chances are it was intentional.
Report Post »Most Christians think the WORLD sees the SONG the way they see the song. You might be singing it to our lord and that’s ok .
But don’t think for a moment their isn’t a ulterior motive.
Satan is trying to sneak in the back door of churches.
Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:04pm“Listen to the words of your modern Christian song.. If you can replace GOD with your girl friend boy friend dad mom or any body that is not our lord, chances are it was intentional.”
Perhaps you are unaware of the long, lonmg tradition in the church of seeng God as the supreme Lover. The Song of Solomon has been read this way for centuries, even before Jesus’ day. Jesus is, after all, the bridegroom to the Church, the Lover to the Beloved.
I DO, however, agree that having much of that as part of communal worship is problematic. Seeing Jesus as our Lover has traditionally been part of CONTEMPLATIVE and mystical spirituality, and something done individually and in private. And the Jews never read the Song of Solomon in public worship, lest the spiritually immature be led astray. Some forms of worship is edifying in private and some in public.
I like to listen to a lot of contemporary Christian music that I hate to hear in church.
Report Post »Steve0218
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:07pmIn the Bible what book, chapter and vs tells us what is appropriate? It does not!! We worship from our heart by Spirit and truth.The beat of the music has absolutely nothing to do with it. This thought process is as absurb as the Pharisee‘s thought process on the ’washing of hands’ having spiritual ramifications.
Report Post »drmda
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:19pmClifton,
And then the veil was torn and we are no longer under the law.
Clifton said
Report Post »“the teachings and doctrines that speak on types of instruments allowed is called the BIBLE. You can find what the bible says on instrumental music if you open the bible and read it. You will find that the only place instrumental music is allowed is inside the Temple (not synagogues) and only allowed to be played by Livites.”
janedough1
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:30pmI think that the Devil is in the fact that this is splitting churches, and yes, its an issue in mine. My thought is this, Christ is the audience for the music, not us. If the words of the music focus your mind on Christ, and if they seem an acceptable offering to God, then who am I to criticize? I’ve heard some really lovely praise band songs. I find that for me, the rock and roll type songs are fine for the weekday, but to me they don’t put me in a worshipful frame of mind on Sunday, given that my singing is my gift to God, not my churches entertainment for me. We have two services, one with traditional hymns, and one for praise band. I much prefer traditional, but given that there are people out there who may not step foot inside a traditional church because its “boring,” I‘m willing to concede that there should be a praise band service for baby Christians who have not yet figured out that they aren’t the audience for the music.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:31pmDrmda: exactly my point. We use the old testament as a guideline and examples, not as commands. Those that use the Old testament (Tanakh) to use musical instruments during worship should also be doing incesce for prayers and animal sacrifices and rituals for worship ad God (YHWH) found such things pleasing. Why would Christians use certain Old Testament scriptures to excuse their worldly practices during worship, but ignore others that they don’t agree with. That doesn’t make sense.
Report Post »localnatives
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:43pmAre you joking?
“In our Church, certain forms of music and instruments are discouraged because they aren’t of a worshipful nature.”
Any form of music that glorifies the chosen diety is acceptable music. Your comment reminds me of a cranky old person complaining that the music is too loud or that the current generation is the worst in history. I believe that it’s important to refrain from such objections because this will only discourage my current from going to church. The church should supply appropriate music that fits the congregation’s spiritual needs. And no, the music can not be custom tailored to fit your personal needs. Just try to stand and listen to the lyrics rather than judging the “noise”.
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:43pm@PingPongPing
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:11pm
Wrong Pong, in the body of Christ you can be chastised by other Christians, it is so written and thus it is.
Percussion was invented to group instruments in more MODERN times a mere convenience not Bible at all! There are words and melodies inspired of God that are recent but this does not allow Pink Floyd or those homosexual bands and so on. Yes, we have a say of what you do and say in the name of Jesus.
Take your ear piercing rock fest to the devil he will like it along with your modern humanist, Power of Positive Thinking, Prosperity Preaching. Be sure to dress like the MODERN rock and movie stars while you are showing off your body moves trying to impress the chicks that are looking for a companion. (They find it easier than at a bar nowadays)
Church has become a dating service it seems and with a poor record at that.
I am a Full-Gospel kind of guy and do not approve of you picking on the Baptist for their desire of true worship. They are not the only ones; you really need to get out of your selfish desires.
Jesus and the Apostles did not have to disguise the gospel to appeal to anyone. If a person understands the words of God and takes Jesus as their savior then that is all we need. Any old tree stump is approved by God and you don’t have to be in tune to sing a song of praise!
David also worshipped naked, now what are you going to do with that Ping Ponger, beat your drum
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:44pmHow did God make music without ELECTRICITY?
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:47pmCyberJocky
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:48pm
PLEASE quit thinking if all you have to offer is what you think, BIBLE is the word of the day and life
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:54pmCyberJocky
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:04pm
Funny jockey, you gave your opinion then come back with a scripture to hit others on the head. Well you added to the problem by your own admission.
I will speak to you as a child until you mature in the Lord
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:56pmHuckabee just likes being seen on stage and that is a sin in its self. He has decided the TV show he has is just fine. He can push the RINO-GOP side and play his music. He is a loser..
Report Post »leeandcaron
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:57pmI appreciate your comment. However on one point I have a question. Who gets to define “worshipful tone”. My belief is that it is God alone…. and He alone is the One who gets to translate the hearts of His worshipers. I fear that we tend to think that’s our job, not His. Spirit and Truth – that’s His definition and He is Truth and only His Spirit can examine mine. What a relief!
Report Post »Locked
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:57pmIt’s pretty simple. People like a certain kind of music often because they were raised with that style. There’s no solid Biblical footing for this; people arguing for “softer music, no percussion,“ have as good a scriptural basis as someone saying ”can’t have electricity in Church, that wasn‘t around in Christ’s time!”
Eventually you need to come out and admit, “I like ‘traditional’ music in church, even if it’s just my own, made-up, non-biblical concept of ‘traditional’.”
For my part, I enjoy traditional music more than the electric guitars and drums, but unlike a lot of posters here, I won‘t pretend that there’s some sort of heavenly mandate saying that God only accepts organs and choirs.
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 6:05pmI judge the NOISE! and I have that obligation. The noise makers think about being on stage, look at me. BULL, put up a cutain in front of them and see how many want to play rock and roll then
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 6:15pmThe PATH is NARROW and only a remnant of the remnant will make it. That is a very small piece or part of the whole. The number is written and the place we will live in is already measured, think about it
Play your rock and roll, I wont be there to listen. I will be trying my best to follow God on that narrow path; yes, you can lose your salvation so pay attention
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 6:25pm@sawbuck
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:39pm
Now that is the TRUTH buck, thats it in the nutshell. Low esteem is behind most of it as well. I was on live stage for 2yrs straight and it is all about being seen and low esteem, insight is a gift of God
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 6:30pmBINGO Steve!!
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 6:38pmLocalnatives: “The church should supply appropriate music that fits the congregation’s spiritual needs. And no, the music can not be custom tailored to fit your personal needs. ”
What a perfect example of attending Church for your needs, worshiping God in a way that suits you, RATHER THAN THE REAL PUROPSE OD WORSHIP: TO GLOFIY GOD. The Church should not mold and transform as men desire, BUT AS GOD’S DESIRE. Worship is not to be tailored to our need but to HIS need. What a selfish way to worship.
Report Post »stephenb.net
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 6:44pmWorshipful tone? What does THAT sound like? Come on now, lets get real. The Bible says make a joyful noise unto the Lord it doesn’t say what the tempo should be or what instruments can be used. Worship comes from the heart not from the style of music.
Report Post »ascoolone
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 6:53pmThese people fighting over the style of worship is all about a heart condition. If your heart is for worshiping God it does not matter what the style of music being played, but that it only uplifts the name of God. The music is just a tool to bring the congregation into the spirit of worship. If the hearts are not right with God no matter what type of music is being played they will not enter into true worship.
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 7:06pmWhy not? After all, god was created in man’s image.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 7:06pmAscoolne: “The music is just a tool to bring the congregation into the spirit of worship.”
Sorry, but you are wrong. Song IS worship, not a tool. If song is just a tool, you are going to the wrong church. And worship is not to be changed to suit the whims of the congregation, but is to be done in a manner set forth by God and in a way pleasing to HIM, not us.
Report Post »ramburner
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 7:12pmChurch music is normally part of the first part of the service. It is there to put people minds on God and to bring our troubles to an end for the week. We cannot worry when we are singing and making melody. So, the music plays a spiritual part in preparing our body to listen to God’s Word being preached and also giving us the correct mindset to renew our relationship with Him. Since no direction is given in the scriptures, it is the function of every church group to determine what honors God for them. Personally, I like all music as long as it has words that are far reaching so people think about the meaning of the song. Music has a way to reach our soul, heart and mind. But the purpose of gathering each week, is to listen to His Word, place more focus on that and less on the music.
Report Post »Buddynoel
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 7:25pmI have been a radio announcer for three different christian radio stations and I can tell you this is a non-story. If there’s not an argument about something in the church, then that church is simply not worth going to. I had an average of 120,000 listeners on my show and I swear that you couldn’t get ten of them in a room to agree on what kind of music was right. Not a day went by in which someone thought I was an agent for the devil even though I was bringing new people to their church.
Report Post »Ditto Head
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 7:28pmGod hates. A list of some things He hates can be found in Proverbs 6. On that list it is stated that God hates a man sowing discord among the bretheren. There should NEVER be a “war” in a church. If someone doesn’t like something about a given church, they shoud go to a different church. Period-end-of story. Idiots.
Report Post »Bluegrasstide
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 7:38pmAll music is welcome in the church that I attend so long as it uplifts the name of Christ. We get so caught up in our man made traditions. Victory in Jesus was not written during Biblical times. At the time it was written it was deemed (gasp) modern, even contemporary, mind you. That is the great thing about the Lord we serve- He can get just as much glory from a 200 + year old song, The Gaithers (who were also once considered “contemporary”), and the Newsboys/Third Day/Chris Tomlin. I wonder which of the Apostles played the piano? Surely, they were “traditional”…
Report Post »batt203
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 7:56pmIt is these types of comments that open the door for Satan to enter and create division in churches. As always you never change the bible and the word of God to please man, but worship is of the heart and spirit. There are different types and styles of worship described in the bible but regardless of how they are made up they are all about exhaulting and glorifying God just as they should be today. My bet is the “traditional” worship songs of the pre-contemporary church of today are considered much different than the styles of the first Christian worshipers. Praise God from whom all blessings flow.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 8:20pmBluegrasstide: it isn’t an issue about when the songs were written, but the way the songs are sung/played. You have the traditional, as done in the 1st century church: a Cappella, or the contemporary modern way: with instruments, be it a single organ/piano or a band. This is the issue. You can have “a Cappella” music sinig modern songs and it still be scriptural worship, or have a band play old hymnals which is unscriptural. See, it’s not the songs themselves, it is the way we sing the song. You completely missed the point.
Report Post »jzs
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 8:31pmSorry to break up the party here with a “Charlie Brown’s Christmas” moment. The universe has billions and billions of galaxies, each containing a billion or so stars. And an incomprehensible number of planets, many of which may contain life. Frankly, the vision of God I read here is of a tiny, petty God who gets ticked when a church, attracting believers or those who might become believers, plays a guitar. As though an omniscient God is a music critic. Does he have an iPod?
Those of you who believe God has musical preferences for worship have a tiny, immature God. A God who gives or withholds His grace based on the music you play in church, even though He never explained what He expected in church.
God in my opinion is more interested in how we treat one another. My God judges a person based on how they treat their other human beings, not what music is played in their church.
Report Post »Ericben
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 8:32pmI’m Catholic and I wholeheartedly agree with you. I get so sick of Churches trying to make the experience “more entertaining” to attract people. If you need worldly amenities and music to make you more comfortable in church, then you need to take a look at how deep your faith is. We are supposed to be separate from the world not of it
Report Post »black9897
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 8:34pm@SEbnard You’re kidding? Who are you to say what is a worshipful tone? Or what invites that in? Give me a break. God made all music. If you want to praise him with rock or rap or old hymns, etc, then that’s fine. Don’t be stuck in the mud like these old people who hate change. The fact is young people aren’t really in to old hymns, and that’s OK. If you’re intent is to JUST to get ppl into church, or to make ppl happy, so you play “hip” music, then that’s different. You cannot honestly say that God somehow only accepts a certain type of music. If you like a certain type and feel you worship best with that, then you do you. But don’t get up in my music/worship world just cuz you’re stuck in your ways.
Report Post »voiceofreason305
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 8:55pmClifton! Awesome! Thank you for reaffirming my scepticism about the bible being inspired by a higher power. (Please don’t misunderstand this to mean things like God, Right and Wrong, etc…don’t exist, the bible does not win ownership over those topics in a rational debate.)
Report Post »black9897
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 9:10pm@SBENARD Give me a break. Who are you to say what God likes or what is worshipful? God made all music and all music is ok. It‘s what the lyrics are saying is what’s important. Rap, hip-hop, rock, pop, etc. About intent of the person and if you like a certain type of music that gets you to worship then great. If you like old hymns that’s fine. Do you, let others take care of themselves. Sounds like you’re stuck in your ways. FACT: young ppl aren’t into old hymns. and that’s OK. If you have certain music JUST to get numbers and do what ppl like then that’s differnt. Don’t try to tell ppl how to worship. You‘re just like these old ppl who are stuck in their same old stupid ways they won’t even realize there is other music that ppl use to worship God with all honesty.
Report Post »hallkbrdz
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 9:13pmUse whatever works – short of sin – to attract people who otherwise would not attend church.
If that is rock, country, or whatever – if it works – do it! There will always be some traditional pipe organ or piano-only churches – and if that floats your boat – great. But to attract other people, we need to use what works.
Remember – this is not a contest to win people from one church to another – it is a contest to win them from the world to Christ. We need to work together – not divide over stupid issues like this!
Bryan
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 9:37pmClifton, what kind of a sect do you belong to? It obviously isn’t Catholic or Orthodox, or any kind of mainstream Protestant. Is it even Trinitarian?
Report Post »banjarmon
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 9:43pmMAKE A JOYFUL NOISE UNTO THE LORD….
Report Post »Stain-glass Bluegrass and Ole Time Gospel hymns
LET My BANJO RING…..NO Better way to make a joyful noise!!!!
DocBroom
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 10:07pmUh, listen to any of the old “traditional” hymns…look at the dates of composition and then find secular music written at the same time. Hymns written in the 1890s sound like ragtime music…. etc…. It was all contemporary music written to appeal to people at the time it was written. Folks 40 years from now, Chris Tomlin, Mercy Me, and the Newsboys will be considered the old “traditional” hymns. I am not aware that any of the music used in Church is specially “inspired” by the Holy Spirit in the same sense that the Bible is the inspired word of God. Perhaps a simple listening to ‘contemporary’ worship music might be worth a moment of time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yubLGTOcm8c or here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZFN8TBfgNU&feature=related
Report Post »DAVIDTHETANK
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 10:08pmI was raised in a very “traditional church”. I now play electric guitar in a “non-traditional church”.
Report Post »It has nothing to do with the music. It’s giving our talents to worship Jesus.
I can’t play piano or organ. I’ve always played guitar. It’s a talent that I have and I choose to give that talent to God. I don’t look down on anyone who prefers traditional music in church. I also don’t look down on anyone who plays piano or organ in church.
I do believe that people who try to say that one or the other is wrong, are creating a distraction in the family of God. We all should be as one. Black, White, Jew, Traditional, Non-traditional, it doesn’t matter.
If we wholeheartedly worship God, while hitting a garbage can with a baseball bat, it’s still worship(just an example).
May God be praised!!
ascoolone
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 10:10pm@Clifton You are missing the point. Worship is about pouring out your spirit to God. I can sing a song all day and if my heart is not in it, it is not worship. Worship is about giving yourself over completely to God, not just singing some songs.
Report Post »You are right about changing the just to suit us. It should not matter if I am singing an old hymn or the latest and greatest popular hit worship song if the heart is not right it is not true worship.
If I go by the way you are stating things, these country artist whom in one set are singing about drinking at the bar and taking home the ladies and in the next set singing Amazing Grace. The Amazing Grace is still a worship song. The song is a great song but the heart condition behind the person sing it is not right with God, therefor it is not worship.
DAVIDTHETANK
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 10:18pmThere are no teachings in the Bible that speak what to, or not to use in worship. It does speak of stringed instruments(King David used these), and horns.
Report Post »No person can use scripture to verify traditional as being the only way. Mainly, because their traditions don’t date all the way back to the times that the scriptures were written. If you look at the life of Jesus, He always spoke about what comes from inside a persons heart.
Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 10:23pm“God in my opinion is more interested in how we treat one another.”
Well OF COURSE he is, JZS. But that doesn’t mean he has NO interest in lesser things. He cares about what helps us in the pursuit of holiness and a life detached from worldly cares and fixations.
It seems there are two twin errors here: the idea on the one side that there is a very specific form of worship and musici that is Christian and that all others are unChristian, and the idea on the other side that there are NO unChristian forms of music, that all music is equal. In my opinion there are many forms of music and worship that are good and worthy of true Christians, and that all forms can be made an idol and perverted by foolish Christians. But there are also many types of music that, while not “evil”, are less conducive to spiritual advancement because they tune the soul in the wrong directions. Rock and rap have very strong beats that are conducive to anger or thoughts of fighting. When directing us to hate the world and the devil they might be of some use, but in worship this is not the primary focus. I would say the same of R&B and many forms of “classical music. I love Shostakovich, but very little of his music would I want Christian hymns to. Wagner is even worse.
Report Post »The-Monk
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 10:28pmWhy do people go to Church?
Report Post »John in Jackson
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 10:46pmJust curious, which type of instruments are incapable of making a joyful noise????
Report Post »These Pharisetical hypocrites that want to tell someone else how to worship God insult Him and His creativity. They will listen to the Gaither Family until they are the last person sitting in the dusty pews of their defunct church, how honoring will that be to God?
CatholiConservative
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 11:01pmAt some point in history every song was contemporary- like every other part of worship- music serves a purpose in helping us worship out creator- the genre of music played/ prayed isn’t an adjustment of God, rather an adjustment of our communication with Him- much like translating the Sacred Scripture in to a different language- a church who loses sight of the purpose of the music in worship does its congregants no good, but one who focuses intently on worshipping our Creator- in any genre will not go wrong.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 11:08pmIslesfordian: who is to say what is good and what is bad for worship? In your response it is up to man to determine, and you don’t even seem sure. That’s why I believe we can only go off what is specifically authorized in the new testament, which is singing (unacompanied). I attend a non-denomination church called “church of Christ”
Report Post »BLACKDIAMONDSKIER
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 11:08pmYou can sit in a contemporary worship service and your life be in opposition to Christ.
You can sit in a traditional worship service and your life be in opposition to Christ.
And you can sit at home and blaspheme God in all aspects of your life.
WORSHIP GOD in EVERYDAY LIFE !!! Honor Christ by carrying his name and living your life as He commanded. And I’m pretty sure His comments in the following quote are regarding questions such as are posed here…..”24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.” – Mark 3:24-25
Don’t let your worship to God be defined by worship STYLE. LET YOUR WORSHIP TO GOD BE DEFINED BY YOUR LIFESTYLE !!!!!
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:06amOkay all you nay sayers who feel modern music should not be used to praise God, please listen to Ricardo Sanchez from Free Chapel and tell me this is not giving thanks and praise to God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQyp0IEpSU0&feature=related
Free Chapel has about 30 minutes of music and then 1 hour of sermon. I really like this format because it gets me pump for Jentezen Franklin, the pastor.
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:09am@islesfordian
I think you missed what I was trying to say.
Note : I am talking about a secular Artist-Group.
The music world is one hardest businesses to break into.
And some will do anything to make it. Including jumping music styles .
The 60’ was filled with music ,if you had a guitar and a catchy tune ,
you could do any music you liked ..rock, country any style you wanted.
The door was wide open.
Today, not the case , musicians go where they can
to get their foot in the door . Highly competitive.
The songs lyrics are written intentionally , by that Artist-Group .
And It still can be used as a great Christian song.
Its how it is interpreted ,Someone may even be convicted enough ,
to turn their life around and be saved. God in this case ,
used it for his glory.
Then again if it becomes a popular song . The secular radio station,
can pick the song up…and now it’s a love song and maybe a #1 hit.
The lyrics are vague intentionally for this reason.
This is a art form of song writing .
You don’t just sit down and pen a song to praise God .
And write It in such a fusion , that it can be a song to your girl friend
or boy friend or anybody.
Try it sometime. “Without” using God ,Jesus, The cross ,Died ,Sins,
Or any other term, that references our lord and savior , In the Lyrics.
It not easy.
CONTIUE…
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:13amCONTINUED..
My point on this . The music Artist I’m referring to ,
If the ARTIST-GROUP could have broke into their “first love”
of music and you only listen to Christian music.
You may not have never heard of them.
And my other point in regards to the “songs of Solomon”
Report Post »He was not hoping to strike a record deal with
(SME) SONY MUSIC.
scarebear83
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:44am@ Davidthetank “There are no teachings in the Bible that speak what to, or not to use in worship.”
Actually the Bible tells us and gives us examples of what exactly we are to use; Acts 16:25; Romans 15:9, 1 Corinthians 14:15, Ephesians 5:18-19; Colossians 3:16-17; Hebrews 2:12; James 5:13 We are commanded to sing. A person cannot sing if they are blowing on a trumpet or have to sit in the audience and listen to a soloist.
“It does speak of stringed instruments(King David used these), and horns.” Under Old Testament standards of worship which also included animal sacrifices. We are no longer under the Law of Moses thus using it as an example for worship today is a poor argument.
“No person can use scripture to verify traditional as being the only way.” Eph. 5:19 and Col. 2:14 authorizes singing and nothing else.
“Mainly, because their traditions don’t date all the way back to the times that the scriptures were written.” There is no account of instruments being used among the first century Christians. It wasn’t until about the 5th or 6th centuries that practice came into being.
“If you look at the life of Jesus, He always spoke about what comes from inside a persons heart.”
Report Post »As long as it is what God commands, which is why we are commanded to sing and make melody in our heart, not our guitar.
Steve0218
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:47amJanedough1—So us Christians that enjoy contemporary music are “baby Christians”? In what way does the genre preference of music have in measuring a person’s spirituality? Can you back your answer up with scripture? Who gives you the authority to tell us what music is best to use for worship? Why do you think the Lord has a preference of genre rather than a preference of a persons heart? Do you think the Lord would prefer genuine worship from a contemporary genre over disingenuios worship of traditional music? What if the devotion level was the same would He accept one genre over the other? Do you realize how silly this whole thing is? Your being pious has absolutely nothing to do with it—-as a matter of fact it could be negative and considered spiritual pride because you think you genre of music makes you more mature than someone that prefers another genre and they are “baby Christians”
Report Post »Tuner
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:11pmSbenard I could not disagree with you more. You stated “Once we try to change the Church to please a mass audience, we have now entered the Devil’s lair;”. Well, I agree if you are talking changing the message of salvation. But I would rather worship in a church that had RAP Christian music (Which I hate) and has a message of the grace of Christs Blood being the only means to salvation than a nice respectful service of old time music and a watered down message. Paul stated “I become all thing to all men so that a few may be saved”. I would suspect in your legalistic version of worship many of you would consider that blasphemous. What Paul was speaking about was his desire to speak the pure truth of Gods message in the language of the current culture. There is nothing wrong with either version of music if they bring the listeners to the throne of grace. I play in a Praise band and would not attend our traditional service unless I could not make the modern one. Not because of the music alone but due to the way it gets me prepared to hear the message. In a traditional service I am half asleep by the time the pastor is ready. Conversely, in our contemporary service, I am jazzed to the max to hear the Bible preached when the pastor comes forth. And I am 55 so it is not just an age thing. For those so convinced that only a certain music is acceptable to the Lord I suggest you look at yourselves and the legalism you espouse. Organ was once considered of the devil you
Report Post »UPSETVET
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 2:41pmThe problem with “contemporay music” in churches is it’s the Trojan Horse that opens the way for the invasion of “contemporay ideas” in regards to worship and Bible doctrine. Frst it’s the music, then it’s the messages, order of services etc. There’s no end to the abandonment of tradicional services once the door is open to contemporary ideas. If I wanted to listen to contemporary music I’s go to a bar. It has NO place in Church.
Report Post »mhannah.vera
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:48pmThe church is the be a witness the Holy Spirit guides those who recieve Jesusin their heart to where HE wants them to be, music should be whatever the Pastor feels should be played. Church is school for Christians so they can go and reach the lost with what they have learned. Forget how it sounds and listen to the words. I’m not in with th rock music being played in my church but I can worship God with it if I pay attention to the words. I ask Christians to be mature in this and realize if its an issue with you,move to a church you feel comfortable in and quit fighting amongst yourselves! Keep the peace and you will be blessed.
Report Post »garyM
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:46pmIf a group of men and a Pastor were to pattern a church exactly as the Bible instructs a New Testament Church should be and the Bible instructs, very few people would attend that church. They would get called all sorts of names and be cast out by all the PC people. PC has infiltrated the Church. The church has gotten so far away from Biblical instructions and people throw out the scriptures that don’t fit their PC attitude and agenda, these PC people get rid of all preachers who don’t preach the PC Gospel just as the Bible prophesied would happen! I don’t see anywhere in the Bible where there is a black church or a white church, God is colorblind! That’s just one example, there are many where people have strayed from what they know is not Bible! The Bible plainly forbids many things the todays church embraces!
Report Post »This reason is why America is in so much trouble today and why we are so divided as a nation! A democrat and few Republicans could go to a real New Testament church, hear the unedited word preached, and believe it, without seeing the need for repentance!
BIBLETHUMPER
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:32pmListen to John MacArthur’s excellent analysis of contemporary music…
http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/GTY110/Contemporary-Worship-Civil-War-in-the-Church
bye
Report Post »TERIPA
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:59pmAND.. they all will soon know the face of God.
The End Times, and the New Paradise on Earth acoming..
LOOK: http://www.theWarningSecondComing.com
JMJ
Report Post »ConservativeAndProud
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:27pmWell, very few churches follow the entire New Testament. Most don’t even understand the basics or teach the basics. Very few understand the original Greek/Hebrew versions to understand the meanings of words. Take for instance Psallo. I’ve seen numerous top ministers state that it means “plucking a harp string.” Well, that wasn’t until many centuries AFTER the Bible was written, much less the 1st Century understanding of the word – which was to “praise with voice” or “vocal music.”
I wonder, why worship God if it is to make YOU happy and not HIM? Since it is HIS Church and HIS Word, since when does OUR needs matter?
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:14pmAmen conservativeandproud
Report Post »AB5r
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:44pmIslam does not allow music. No dogs, no music, no alcohol, no pork, just hate.
Report Post »the hawk
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:19pmNot all islam
Report Post »the hawk
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:43pmWatch any jihad recrutment vedio theres allways music in the background ! The palistinians tv cartoons about killing infadels all have music ! the madrasas in Pakisstan sing songs about killing infadels ! In the Blakins the Sufi’s sing glorious songs that worship to allah ! these are all facts !
Report Post »Maybe the radicals banned music but thats hardly haft of them…………………………..
AB5r
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:13pmHawk, I know what you mean but this is the problem with Islam, it is a constant fight even between various groups of Muslims, All any of them have to do is point to something Muhammad said or did and issue a fatwa. But you are wrong to try to deny that Islam is outlawed in traditional Islam. In order for the West to make sense of the threat of Islam we have to use Western logic and knowledge, the understanding that there are “facts” and that two opposing texts cannot both be true. Islam contains contradictions that cannot be reconciled. That some groups may have music, or some terrorist Muslims may use music, they could be doing that just for Jihad advantage, they can do anything if it furthers the Jihad. They can even lie. The only music of mainstream Islam is the Satanic calls to prayer from the cheap loudspeakers on the mosques.
Report Post »bernbart
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:34pmI see more hate coming from right wing Christians in the U.S. When any religion get’s politicized by conservatives and right wingers , it turns ugly.
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 6:28pmIslam is Islam so I would say AB5R is correct
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 6:32pmWe are talking worship songs to GOD not allah
Report Post »SerikFox
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:22am@Berbart So, let me get this straight – you’re talking about hate, yet you are all for stereotyping conservatives and “right-wing christians” as hateful. That doesn’t sound prejudiced or hateful at all. if you‘re going to attack someone stating a stereotype then don’t use a stereotype yourself. However, the point was made that the actual islamic texts are very radical and permit a muslim to use any method to further the Jihad. The stereotype that AB5R used was very specific and related to what the islamic texts actually say and permit. Your stereotype was based on your political views. Go look up AB5R’s claims about the texts; he gave accurate information regarding furthering the jihad and how the religion itself says to lie – something that makes it untrustworthy at word value.
Report Post »desirefirst
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 1:26pmanother cliche about “hate” that is a lie, written as if all hate is bad. hate in and of itself is never the point, only how it is directed. it’s good that i hate pain, good that i hate disease, good that i hate ignorance, …
Report Post »csbaby
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:44pmI’m thankful for a lot of the contemporary music as it usually inspired from actual bible verses from Psalms, etc. Singing the verses to music helps me to memorize scripture verses. Contemporary music gets my vote as long as it is “leading” people into worship, not performing on stage like a concert.
Report Post »I find it hard to follow traditional hymns because you’re essentially reading words out of a hymnal trying hard to hit all the riight musical notes. Seems I spend more time trying to stay in tune and on the right line of music that any actual worship of God is accidental at best.
Jomil48
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:51pmIf it gets to the point that the church is torn over music, that church is in trouble. What so ever things are pure, what so ever things are right, if there be any vertue, if there be any praise, think on these things. It is not style, it is content. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:10pmMost churches where I live have at least two services a traditional and a comtemporary … one has the contemporary on Saturday night and the traditional on Sunday morning .. it doesn’t have to be either or or a combination. What is important is people attending and gathering together in the name of God.
Report Post »AB5r
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:27pmYou are exactly right about the way modern choirs sing “to” the congregation rather than leading them in song. Traditionally there would be one or two choir performances but most of the singing was everyone joining in unison. But you are wrong about the hymns, of course you won’t get them at first but you just fake it going along with everyone else, eventually after singing all the great hymns through the years you don’t even need to use the hymnal, at least not on the main verse or the chorus. Looking around at others in the congregation you can who is singing without the hymnal and you know they have been there a while. You don’t want it to be so simplistic that any old person can come in off the street and look like pro.
Report Post »TumbleBumble
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:36pmI actually like when my previous church integrated more modern songs in between traditional hymns. It took a little while to catch on to them, but seeing the younger folks singing with passion was enough for me to accept it.
When my daughter was graduating 8th grade, her teacher had taught them ‘Days of Elijah’ and had them sing that for the parents. Oh, my gosh.. These kids were sooo into worshipping our Lord. I hadn’t experienced such an amazing and powerful event. The place was filled with the Spirit.
I honestly cry every single time I hear it (cannot listen to it while driving). If you’ve never heard of the song, please click on the link. Try and imagine a stage full of 13/14 year olds belting this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4wl0VFgpjY
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 6:37pmThe church has to be torn, it is scripture that many will depart the gospel.
The church will have to stand strong against any wind of doctrine which includes so called songs. Just because we are in a church bldg we are not the same.
Be ye seprate and come out from among them, you are not forced to do evil for PC doctine.
Dont be decieved into another gospel, there is only one Jesus which is GOD!
Report Post »Totally Domestic
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:44pmI have noticed the music getting more and more worldly.
We are to come out of the world and not be like it, for the
world is the enemy of God.
If contemporary music is Christ centered and the main
focus is worshiping God, the Holy Spirit will tell you if
it is Godly or not.
Notice how the “dressing down” comes along with the
Report Post »“dumbing down” of the music.
I will not go to a Rock Music church. It is worldly
and not of God. Songs, hymns and spiritual songs
is what God wants for his people.
the hawk
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:24pmI will not go to a church that has back woods hillbilly country/bluegrass music!
Report Post »That is not the music God wants for his people ! ! !
nana24
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:32pmDo you realize that many of the “old hymns” are actually words sung to the tune of then contemporary bar songs? I personally like both traditional and contemporary – connect with both – but not necessarily every song of both genre. I think the point is, does the music enable you to worship God in song – does your spirit cry out. I think God is judging the content of your soul & enJOYing communion with your spirit – I don’t sing for me – I sing , every heart felt word, to HIM and my spirit rejoices at the opportunity.
Report Post »Wayne
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:36pmAmen, people come to Church witch is GODS house and they dress like homeless people and carry their cell phones and want to be entertained. We should respect GODS house at all times. and I don’t believe in rock bands in church.
Report Post »TERIPA
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:15pmThe only “ I ” having to do with God, and worship thereof, will most likely end up:
“Dearest Jesus, I ask your pardon for all my sins, and for the hurt, and injury I have caused others.
I humbly pray for the graces to avoid offending you again, and ….
I plead for the forgiveness….
Take me with you into the new era of Peace…
I love you, Jesus.
I need you.
I honor you, and everything you stand for.
Help me, Jesus, so that I may be worthy to enter your Kingdom.”
Your Saviour
Jesus Christ
as seen in Messages at: http://www.theWarningSecondComing.com
JMJ
Report Post »sensibleadult
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:39pm@NANA24 You have swallowed the old line about the bar music, but it was not worldly tear in your beer, hop in the sack with somebody not your spouse kind of bar music. The bars then were not juke joints- they were gathering places for travellers, and places where information was shared about travel conditions, dangers,etc. Since there was no radio and internet, it was also the place where tunes were shared. A “bar song” was simply a folk type song common to everyone. And since there were few music publishers, the words were sung to the few tunes they knew. So this does not justify the modern practice of making Christian music sound as sinful as you can in order to appeal to the sinful nature of people. You don’t win the world by becoming like the world. If you become like the world, you didn’t win them- they won you. And God doesn‘t have or need sheep in wolves’ clothing.
Report Post »sensibleadult
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:52pm@NANA24 You have swallowed the old misconception about the “bar” music. The tunes you mention were not tear in your beer, hop in the sack with somebody not your spouse types of songs. Bars in that day were not juke joints – they were social gathering centers where information about travelling conditions and dangers were passed along, and songs were sung. Since music publishers were few, tunes were naturally shared and adapted to different words. They were not consciously trying to make Christian songs sound as worldly as possible in order to appeal to people’s carnal natures. Many of today’s “Christian” music intentionally imitates the world and dilutes the doctrine in order not to “offend”. But the result is a lack of repentance and separation from the world in the “converts”. You don’t win sinners by being like them. If you become like them, you didn’t win them- they won you. God doesn‘t have or need sheep in wolves’ clothing.
Report Post »SlimnRanger
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:09pmFolks argue if you will about the style of music in worship,but i remember the Bible tells us “To make a joyfull noise unto the Lord”,bottom line is God knows our hearts and if we are really sincere in worshiping him
Report Post »okieqt
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:42pmI enjoy a mix. There was obviously a point in time that today’s beloved traditional songs were “brand new”. Also, what will Christians do who only sing a certain set of songs when they get to heaven and sing a new song?
The way our pastor put it (when announcing in a sermon that we will enjoy a mix of worshipful music and not argue about music choice), it can become a selfish thing. You may not enjoy organ music, but the person next to you may love it and may be having a worshipful experience. It’s such a self-centered thing to say, “I don’t like that music. I only want to be surrounded by things I like. Everything must be pleasing to me.” haha That is a very slippery slope to start down.
Report Post »ConservativeAndProud
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:37pmSelfish is when you go against the Bible to make your members happy and enlarge your membership. This is NOT about us, it is about God.
We are to be IN the world but not OF the world. We are to be reverent, solemn, somber and in awe during worship. Where does contemporary music, instruments and clapping fit into that?
By the way, what about the verses where Jesus and the Apostles admonished Christians for wanting to bring the World into Church, especially paganism which was heavy in musical instruments and theatrics? Or, what about the first Church elders’ and their writings against such sinful behavior?
And why does His Word change over time? People haven’t changed. We are the same greedy, selfish, loving, weak, strong people that have existed throughout time. Needs and feelings don’t change, just the environment around us. So, why do we force God’s desires to change?
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 6:30pmIt wont be to the beat that was created in a whorehouse and that is what is in the church today. Stop your perversion of what it will sound like, as you said, IT WILL BE A NEW SONG!!!!!
Report Post »Phil222
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:41pmI believe the words to the songs should always be Spiritual Truths. Several of the old hymns have these truths. I am conservative. I personally don’t like contemporary music. These contemporary songs may make u feel good, but Lady Gaga’s music can make u feel good. It‘s the content of the song and the way it’s presented that I believe gives worship to God. imho
Report Post »jay_GUNNER
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:15pmLady Gaga’s songs do not make me feel good….at all.
Report Post »ScienceIsNotEvil
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 6:09pmHow many people would want to sing songs about killing disobedient kids??
Report Post »angelcat
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:41pmI haven’t heard about any such controversies in Catholic churches, though I’m sure a few probably exist. More modern music is usually used for youth Masses and standard church music for other Masses. While music adds to a Mass, it is not the primary focus. The Mass itself is, so music is kept secondary and non-distracting.
Report Post »AB5r
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:50pmMusic is Protestant churches has always been very different than in Catholic. A big pipe organ belting out traditional hymns with the whole congregation standing and singing in unison is really something that inspires and reminds one of the majesty of God above. That is all destroyed with the modern arm waving puffy songs and chants. Modern instruments could be used but they can’t replace the majesty of a pipe organ. Of course many churches can’t afford a large organ and use piano instead in a small church that is fine. Modern churches will sell off a pipe organ and use a cheap electric instead beside the guitar and bass and drums. They just don’t get it.
Report Post »AB5r
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:31pmTaking personal taste completely out of the picture, it is just a slam dunk obvious fact that the music of traditional hymns, along with the words and verses, are thousands upon thousands of times more sophisticated and worshipful than modern music which consists of little more than mundane chords repeated over and over again and mindless short phrases repeated over and over again with people mindlessly waving their arms in the air. The comparison is a bit like comparing a Bach composition with a modern rap song. Sure some may “like” the rap song but on a factual level it isn’t in the same universe as a Bach composition.
Report Post »jay_GUNNER
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:55pmI agree. The spiritual and doctrinal depth in traditional hymns is clearly evident. However, the same could be said of several more modern praise and worship songs as well, albeit I don’t think it is as prevalent. I also agree with you that often (not always) modern songs are much less sophisticated. Not to indorse one approach over the other, but I agree with your assessment.
As Rick Warren says in his book, The Purpose Driven Life, “The heart of the matter is a matter of the heart.”
It‘s not what is played more than it is how it’s played; that is, It’s the spirit in which it is played, and it‘s the individual’s heart as well as the cooperate heart of the congregation that the LORD assesses. This will determine whether is sounds like a revolting “clanging cymbal” or if it is that “sweet smelling aroma” that pleases the Lord.
Report Post »proud2bmom
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:57pmStill waiting for you to take personal preference out of the equation with that comment. Many of the contemporary praise choruses are scripture passages set to music. I‘m not sure how that is less worshipful than a 19th century songwriter’s poetical discourse on doctrine.
Both have value. Both have strengths and weaknesses.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:29pmyou have to remember that bach in his day wasn’t a classic..he was just another composer…in his day, his songs were the pop songs…
Report Post »sensibleadult
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:00pm@JOE1234 You will have to admit that Bach was not composing “shake your booty” type songs like we’re hearing today. When you mix the carnal and the spiritual, it does not make the carnal spiritual. It weakens the spiritual. Every time.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 9:50pmLet’s not forget that there are a lot of really bad “traditional” hymns. Some came out of the 19th century romantic movement and the desire to make worship sentimental and focussed on our pious feelings toward God. Very Schleiermachian. Much modern praise music is a continuation of that rather shallow self-centered worship focus.
Music should be judged first by whether they speak of God and by how truthful they are about Him. After that questions of aesthetic pleasingness can be weighed.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 11:25pmI completely agree with islesfordian on this one.
Report Post »MTNative
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:29pmFirst off, I think it is silly to choose a church based on how hip the music is. However, I think the churches can play any kind of music they want. Since there is no unifying head of these individual churches there is nothing governing doctrine or traditions. My only thought is, that if this is how you “attract” congregants (using newer rock style music) you’d better have something solid behind the music to back them up. I have visited a couple of churches that use the more modern music, but there was nothing but the music, there was no doctrine, no preaching, no bearing witness of Christ. I don’t want to paint all of these churches in this manner, just my observations.
Report Post »AB5r
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:42pmWhat is the saddest is when the so-called “praise team” does what seems more like a “concert” with little or no involvement from the congregation, and it just goes on and on with certain people who are supposedly “stars” do solos and get applause. Then there is a collection and a short message from the pastor, and essentially that is it, that is the service. There is SO MUCH more to a true worship service including bible readings, prayers, concerns from the congregation, etc. etc. It is really tragic what Sunday service has become in too many churches.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:44pmYou say there is nothing to govern traditions or worship? Uh, yes…it is called the BIBLE
Report Post »commonsensible
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:55pmWell said ABR5.
Report Post »MatthewChapter24
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:28pmToo many pastors are allowing the youth culture to lead the way. Churches are abandoning their roots in favor of more “hip” styles. Many pastors are trying to attract more of the unsaved yonger set in order to grow their church…it’s a numbers game. Whoever has the largest, hippest congregation wins!
But God’s character, illustrated through scripture, has always shown that he doesn’t need numbers to “win”. He doesn’t need perfect or hip to win. He needs us to submit and obey and allow His glory to be revealed.
Pragmatism–the slippery slope to hell.
Report Post »tbconrad
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:02pmI’m but I have to ask given your statement. What do you think the church is for. Is it to reach and save the lost or is it a social club?
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:12pmTbconrad: the church is to seek and save the lost, but that doesn’t mean to act in sin, or to conform to worldly views to do so. You seek and save the lost by example, by preaching truth, and staying true to God’s word, not man’s.
Report Post »tbconrad
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:32pmExplain to me how contemporary worship music or for that matter even christian rap music is sin? I could have the same statement to you about hymn music of old. if I was naive and narrow minded as some of the people who have commented on this post. Do you really think God has a definition of Worship or Praise music? If that were the fact then we would all still be singing in Israeli as David did. To say that a worship leader has sinned by using any form of worship is to examine his heart and that is something that you cannot due unless you are God himself. I believe that there are places for grunge worship if that is the people you are trying to reach. To sit here and say that there should only be one type of music played in church is just plain stupid. God did not make up all the same. We are here to reach the lost using all tools available to us. There is a difference in singing secular music in church which I do not agree and christian lyrics to any type of music. To believe any different is just ignorant to scripture knowledge.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:07pmTbconrad: it is not about new songs or old songs, it is about HOW the son is sung. Outside of the Temple (which was destroyed in 70A.D.) we are only authorized to worship unaccpanied as described in Psalms 137. The only place where instruments were authorized in worship was inside the Temple and the only people allowed to use the instruments was Levites. The Lord (YHWH) does care who worship is done as he did not accept, saw as profane, cursed the worship, and even killed those that worshiped in His name in a manner which was not authorized. And by the way, David spoke Hebrew, not Israeli.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:16pmTbconrad: “To believe any different is just ignorant to scripture knowledge.” just because you obviously did not read the true scripture which teaches contrary to your beliefs, an you believe in denominational doctrine, which is not scripture. Calling others ignorant to scripture knowledge when you yourself do not have a full understanding of His word is foolish. Read the Bible, the ENTIRE bible. When Christians do not read their own Bible in its entirety or leave out scriptures or books (or add to it) they become easly swayed in the ways of Satan.
Report Post »sensibleadult
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:07pm@TBCONRAD It is sinful because it appeals to the flesh. Pop and rock music was born in rebellion and continues in that to this day. It is pure hype. It targets the fleshly senses. That alone makes it inappropriate for worship.
Report Post »tbconrad
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 7:39pm@Clifton glad you caught that, (David spoke Hebrew, not Israeli.) I didn’t think anyone here would as they seem to be focused on their self centered need than real truth.
“we are only authorized to worship unaccpanied as described in Psalms 137” This is the most ignorant statement I think I have read here. If you want to live in the old testament under the law then that is fine but Christ died that I might be free under grace and not under the law. If you want run down that road than only a true Levite would be able to lead worship and even the traditional worship service would be improper worship unless you are a levite.
“just because you obviously did not read the true scripture which teaches contrary to your beliefs, an you believe in denominational doctrine, which is not scripture…”. You must think you know me. No where have I described my self as that. I am a Christian first and foremost. I do not confirm to anything other than what Jesus taught. I do not associate with any denominational doctrine. I read the NIV, NES, KJ, NKJ and many other various translations of the Holy Scriptures. I am not narrow minded and stick to only one version with my music or my scripture translations.
Report Post »tbconrad
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 7:51pm@sensibleadult “It is sinful because it appeals to the flesh”. This sounds more like a internal problem that you may be dealing with. Unless you can examine the heart of the worship leader or the participant in worship than you don’t know how they have entered into worship. What I have noticed is that people get set in their ways and refuse to change. When that happened they begin to die inside. It is great to remember the past because it reflects on where we came from and what our value system is based on.There is nothing wrong with singing 100 year old hymns I love many of them but to force a whole new generation of believers to stay in your era is absurd. There can be a balance of music styles in the church if there is a need but to just dismiss anything other than what you think is correct it is complete ignorance. Remember before the traditional worship songs there was something else that I am sure you wouldn’t want to sing. We as Christians need to grow up. Change is inevitable just look in the mirror.
Report Post »Stoic one
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:27pmSince the organ & piano did not exist two thousand tears ago, it seems to me this argument is being looked at inappropriately. Is the music in harmony with God’s message? Those that argue about the music, might look at things like electric lights, a public address system, air conditioning, telephones, computers, and other things that are modern.
The message can be in harmony with any and all of the above. It is how these objects are used.
Slightly off point but making my ‘message’: Thirty five years ago when I was in college, one of the professors was attacked in a home burglary. The weapon of choice….
a carpenters hammer.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:41pmO course there were no organs or pianos, but you are saying there were no instruments? Hello, there were plenty of instruments, and numerous listed in the bible: harps, trumpets, shofars, lyres, etc. the point is that these were only allowed to be used in the Temple and the only people allowed to play them were Livites. They were not allowed outside of the Temple or in Synagogues. Satan can use worship to tempt Christians away from the Lord.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:02pm“Hello, there were plenty of instruments, and numerous listed in the bible: harps, trumpets, shofars, lyres, etc. the point is that these were only allowed to be used in the Temple and the only people allowed to play them were Livites. They were not allowed outside of the Temple or in Synagogues.”
Where in the world do you get this idea? David was no Levite, and he played the harp. 1 Samuel 19:9
Report Post »Stoic one
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:16pmNO; my point is ‘new things’ appear through time; HOW is the new thing to be used? IS the use in harmony with God’s word?
ANYTHING can be used for good or evil.
You can use a hammer to build a church, or you can use a hammer to bludgeon a person to death while robbing them.
Report Post »one use good, the other bad. Of course good and bad some will argue is subjective– take islam for example, killing infidels – good.
Music comes from things that did not exist 20-30-50 years ago. These objects can also be used for the glorification of God, along with all music producing things that came before.
Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:07pmIslefordian: I found the above in a book i read, called the Bible. David was a musician, he played the harp. But when the Bible speaks of music in worship, it only talks about instruments only payed by Livites in te Temple. David played, but not in worship, and not in the temple.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:22pm“I found the above in a book i read, called the Bible.”
Really? I never HEARD of that book. Could you BE any more pompous, and without reason? Do you think others don’t read the Bible as well, and can tell when you are talking crap? You said musical instruments were used only by Levites in the Temple. NOW you say that you were only talking about MUSIC FOR WORSHIP played in the Temple, which would make your point much more pointless. Since there are no Levites in the church what point is there in saying that only Levites played music in the Temple? Who cares?
Besides, you are only noting things that happened in the OT and proclaiming some biblical rule for worship, when none such exists. God never laid down specific rules for music, especially for the church.
Report Post »rt elms
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:59pmNo matter what the topic, one can always count on folks like Clifton to bind those who Christ has set free. Clifton, if you are a believer, I suggest a careful study of the book of Galatians in a modern English translation followed by some quiet time for self-reflection.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:32pmIslesfordian: my point is that since there is no more Temple (destroyed in 70 A.D.) there is no authority to use instruments in worship. And if te Temple were still standing, the only people authorized to play those instruments would be the Levites.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:38pmIslesfordian: “Besides, you are only noting things that happened in the OT and proclaiming some biblical rule for worship, when none such exists. God never laid down specific rules for music, especially for the church.”
So you are saing that if I want to smoke in His name during worship, that would be OK, since to you, God did not lay out any rules of worship? What about snake handling? Or speaking in tounges in worship, is that OK? The thing is God has outlined worship in Acts. And the old testament is not to be thrown out with the dish water. That gives us guidelines as to what is acceptable and pleasing to God.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:45pmClifton, the Bible nowhere lays out the rules you say it does. NOWHERE. Description of how worship was done is not the same thing as PREscription of how it MUST be done.
Nowhere have you cited a single verse to back yourself up. You are making all this up, or taking it from some other fool who has.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:55pm“So you are saing that if I want to smoke in His name during worship, that would be OK, since to you, God did not lay out any rules of worship?”
You seem to be operating under the rule that all things are forbidden unless God says that they are OK. That’s not how Paul lays out things.
“What about snake handling?”
Why not? The problemn with snake handlers is that they think Christians HAVE to do it to demonstrate their spirit-filledness? They are all about rules just like you are, just the opposite rules.
“Or speaking in tounges in worship, is that OK?”
If there is an interpreter. Check it with Paul, 1 Corinthians 14. He knows more abourt these things than you or I.
“The thing is God has outlined worship in Acts.”
And these rules are….? You seem to see a lot more specific rules than I do, or than anyone in the history of the church has.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 5:07pmIslesfordian: to require an interpreter during worship is itself a rule regarding worship, which seems contrary to you previous posts that there are no rules or guidelines to worship. You seem to be contradicting yourself and picking and choosing what to believe. I believe where the Bible is silent, it is best to be silent, but where the Bible speaks, we must speak.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 9:15pmClifton, I nowhere said that there are NO rules in worship, just that there are no rules regarding MUSIC that you allege. I neither pick and choose by my own authority nor do I interpret rules by my own authority, as you clearly do. Nowhere have you, and nowhere can you show where God lays out such rules on music.
Report Post »WhiteFang
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 12:35pmIf a person understands the issue of Sovereignty and the Majesty of the true God, and of his Son‘s role in being the mighty King of God’s Kingdom with all authority being granted to him, he or she will not have a problem in identifying what appropriate music and singing should be.
Report Post »Baddoggy
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:24pmI saw this almost bannkrupt a Church many years ago. The music director did not take into considerstion that old members who iike traditional music TITHE and young believers who like contemperary music do not give…OOPS.
Report Post »The old folks left…with their wallets.
Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 10:05pmThat is a HORRIBLE motivation for choosing music. But, sadly, it is how many churches become captivated to the demands of the world. A priest/pastor should choose the music he believes is RIGHT, not just what his people WANT, or what the “important” people want.
Report Post »garyM
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:22pmI like Micheal W Smith, traditional music too. When the devil was throw out of heaven I think he landed in the choir. What I think we need in the church is preachers that will preach the unedited Gospel and not tickle people ears. We also need people who will echo the Gospel Monday through Saturday even if people give them the devil for sharing it. We don’t ever get righteous enough in our righteousness be qualified to give the Gospel of Christ, we give the Gospel because we has taken on His righteousness.
Report Post »jay_GUNNER
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:41pmWell said.
Report Post »thdream
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:19pmThis is such a non-issue! This “fight” has been going on in this context since the early eighties. Style is not a theological or doctrinal argument. To quibble as if there exists a style of music that is inherently evil and unable to be used for corporate worship is a man-made argument for the purpose of creating a sense of pride in those who believe they are doing it right. There are object arguments to be made about art, I do not believe all music is the same, but to make this metaphysical argument about a particular style over another is nonsense on its face. Music is a rich medium and is rightly used in worship. To elevate ones preference (about music style) and mandate it seems antithetical to the Gospel itself. Just like the PATRIOTGRUNT post above, I would die on the vine in that church, tragically boring and missing out on so much, you see that is my preference. So the argument around preferences should not be moved to the argument about doctrine, that is undisciplined and destructive.
Report Post »liberalsarepsycho
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 6:51pmMusic in Church as an issue has been around for hundred of years. Bach was fired many times from churches because his works were too contemporary.
Report Post »Hammerdown
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:18pmWhat does “I’m in the middle on this one” mean? Isn’t it the same as a mixture?
Report Post »AB5r
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:38pmEach verse is played in a different style.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:18pmI believe worship styles is a saving issue. There are examples in the Bible where worship to God can become profane and sinful. Yes, there are examples of instrumental music in worship in the old testament, but a closer look at those scriptures, you will find that the instruments were played at one place (the Temple) by one group of people (the tribe of Livites). Psalm 137 says they hung up their harps in worship and denied requests to play instruments in worship because they were not inside the temple. The only place in the new testament where use of instruments is used is in Revelation at the second coming of Christ in the Temple.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:04pmA perfect example of making stuff up about the Bible. Have you forgotten David?
Report Post »jay_GUNNER
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:09pm@Clif
Couple of things. First, I believe it is spelled “Levites”, as in, the Tribe of Levi, or as in the Levitical Law, or as in the Book of Leviticus. Nevertheless, your assessment that the New Testament does not reference music accompanied by with instruments outside of Revelation is off base. For example, in Paul’s letter to the Ephesians, chapter 5, verse 19, he encourages the saints that they should be “speaking to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and making music to the Lord in your heart,”. The word “psalms” refers to songs accompanied by musical instruments.
Not intending to create an argument, but many speak on this forum in a “matter of fact” fashion as they present what he or she knows about the Scriptures and all too often God’s word is misrepresented. Be careful what you say.
Report Post »garyM
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:28pmDuring the days of David’s reign as King, the priest offered up animal sacrifices once a year for the sins of people, a spotless Lamb, Jesus came as that spotless Lamb and died on a cross and rose again so we could too. Old Testament scripture gives insight in history and comparing physical things with spiritual things, a shadow of things to come. The Church instructions are found in the New Testament! we still study the Old Testament and it has great teachings that affect our lives today, proverbs is full instructions to improve our lives but the structure of the Church of Jesus in clearly outlined in the New Testament! David danced naked before the Lord but I don‘t think that would be appropriate in today’s corporate church service!
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:15pmObviously you did not read the Bible cover to cover, or explicitly left out verses in the Bible. When David played, it was not in worship, and it was not in the Bible. I do not make things up, but I do not leave passages out as you obviously have. I know where Levites come from, and do not need to be schooled on the genealogy of the Hebrews.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 2:23pmJay_gunner: Psalms (the Greek word ψαλμοι) means the Psalms of David, not instrumental music. Nice try though.
Report Post »Komponist-ZAH
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:22pmThe Temple had a resident “orchestra” of lyres, trumpets, etc.
And you’re forgeting Psalm 150:
3 Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet;
Praise Him with the lute and harp!
4 Praise Him with the timbrel and dance;
Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes!
5 Praise Him with loud cymbals;
Praise Him with clashing cymbals!
…But I wouldn’t mind if electric guitar, synthesizer, and drum set were left out. (I hate electronic instruments, and that incessant noise that pop musicians call a “beat”.)
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:31pm“Psalms (the Greek word ψαλμοι) means the Psalms of David, not instrumental music.”
Doubly wrong. The book of Psalms contained more than just David’s songs. And this is how Strong’s concordance explains the meaning of psalmoi
“psalm.
From psallo; a set piece of music, i.e. A sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp or other instrument; a “psalm”); collectively, the book of the Psalms — psalm.”
Thanks for playing (and pretending you could make up your own rules).
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:49pm“When David played, it was not in worship, and it was not in the Bible.”
You know this HOW? And of course it was in the Bible. What on earth do you think you are talking about?
“I do not make things up, but I do not leave passages out as you obviously have.”
Oh please school me on what passages I have left out. Since I haven’t quoted the entire bible I guess I must have left some passages out.
Show me where you biblical descriptions of music in worship are actually prescriptions. Do you even know the difference?
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:46pmIslesfordian: I meant to say David did not play in Worship and did not play in the Temple.
W
My statement “not in the Bible” was incorrect, my mind was typin faster than my fingers.
But Strongs definition of Psallo is a new interpretation. To know and read the Bible as it was written in Greek (Aramaic) and Hebrew, we need to use the terminology of the 1st century. In the 1st century Psallo ment “to sing with voice”
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 4:58pmKomponist: who wrote Psalm 150, and who was the Psalm’s audience intended for? Since the author is unknow, we cannot attribute this Psalm to David. This Psalm was likely written by a Levite on conducting seri minimal praise inside the Temple, speaking of other Levites (the only tribe authorized to use instruments for Worship inside the Temple).
Since everyone is knocking me on my view, why then don’t you use incense durin your worship, as it is “a pleasing aroma unto the Lord,” or sacrifice animals? Because we are not authorized to do so. Yet you read a few passages on the old testament about musical instruments and think “oh, that would be cool if we did that” and thus take it upon yourself to use instruments during worship.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 9:27pm“But Strongs definition of Psallo is a new interpretation. ”
And what is YOUR source for the “old” definition?
“Since everyone is knocking me on my view, why then don’t you use incense durin your worship, as it is “a pleasing aroma unto the Lord,” or sacrifice animals? Because we are not authorized to do so.”
This is the most revealing bit of nonesense you have written. We don‘t sacrifice animals because we don’t NEED to. The Jews didn’t sacrifice animals because they thought it would make their worship better. God TOLD them to. It wasn’t a pleasant experience for anyone involved, especially the mess. So not having to do it is a big relief. But there is no reason not to use incense, as the reason for using it before still applies now. It symbolizes the prayers of the people lifting up to heaven. God smells them and “remembers” his people. The church has used incense for centuries.
Again, it is clear that you operate from the mentality that what is not strictyly authorized in the Bible is forbidden. that is a view held by no Christian church. You seem to assume that everything of OT worship has been abandoned EXCEPT what is mentioned in the NT, rather than seeing that only those things specifically abandoned by Christians in the NT would cease to be characteristic of Christian worship.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 11:51pmIslesfordian: you hit the nail on the head. Jesus abolished the old law as described in Eph 2. In Matt 5, “fulfill” is from the Greek word is “Pleroo”, which has a wide range of meanings: satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfill, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.
So when Jesus atoned for our sins on the cross, Jesus abolished the Fathers’ old covenant with Moses an created a new come any with us.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 11:55pmIslesfordian: so when Jesus “fulfilled” the old law by making it completed, it was no longer needed, it is now done away with, it is finished. We now have a new law or covenant.
Report Post »jay_GUNNER
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 3:41am@Isles
I get it now. Based on one of Clif’s other posts, he is a “Church of Christ” member and ascribes to their doctrine of no instruments. They have their doctrinal “angle” that supports this, but have a difficult time with verses like Eph 5:19. Further, you can see he is “trained” to give the appropriate response about such scriptures, such as his “1st century” definition of psalm. However, that’s not my primary beef with Clif.
@Clif
I can see that you are pretty well versed in scripture, and in particular, the doctrinal approach of the church you ascribe to. However, the way that you post your doctrine about “non-essential“ beliefs or ”doubtful issues” is concerning. You post these in a “matter of fact” fashion and as the only “correct” approach to worship in a very arrogant fashion, whether intentional or not, which seems to imply that those who use interments are clearly in error. You would find, however, that the Church of Christ doctrine on this is quite the minority. Nevertheless, I would encourage you to take a long, self-reflecting look at Romans ch 14 in regard to “doubtful issues”, the example given their is about foods of course. The point is, Paul was calling for unity despite opposing doctrinal teachings that are non-essential to the message of the Gospel. Even if you feel that you are correct in your conviction, you should make room for us “weaker” brothers and sisters for the sake of unity in Christ, and stop heraldin
Report Post »jay_GUNNER
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 4:09amcontinued: …and stop heralding your revelatory insight of scripture over us for the sake of unity. The opposite is true is well, that is, those who use instruments should not lord this over those who don’t. The bottom line is that both sides should allow grace for the other in regard to an issue that is non-essential to the Gospel and message of salvation, all for the sake of unity in Christ. If we are in Christ, we have so much more important things in common, as Paul clearly outlines in Eph 4:1-6. First, he tells us to live up to our calling with the Fruits of the Spirit, and put up with one another. Second, he admits it will take WORK to do so. And lastly, he points out what we have in common: “…one body, one Spirit, one hope…one Lord, one faith…one God and Father of all.” We have so much more in common to celebrate and come together for the sake and name of Christ and should not portray such an aggressive divide on topics like these, especially when accompanied by insults or name calling.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 9:16amJay: if you read my earlier posts, you will see in fact that church of Christ does not have a problem with Eph 5:19, or any other scripture for that matter. As you have stated Jesus set up his church in the 1st century. Satan has been trying to destroy it ever since. Satan has use those who claim to be of the word to sway those away from the true word. Psallo, which means Psalms in Eph 5 originally meant vocal music, to sing music with voice. Just as the word baptizo translated as baptism is now translated as sprinkled instead of the original meaning immersion. Church of Christ is retiring the church to its original glory. Yes, we may be in the minority, but the way in truth is narrow and few will enter. We are not reforming the church to try to get as many people I’m for the sake of attendance. We hold true to truth, and we seek truth in His word.
Report Post »jay_GUNNER
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 9:50am@Clif
Again, you demonstrated my point precisely. When you use scripture, like “narrow is the way…” to defend your position and condemn all other churches, it is completely degrading and contrary to the Gospel message. Did you even consider what I posted in my previous message about unity?
There are some things that Christians can agree to disagree on for the sake of unity in Christ. Yet, you still want to argue. Okay, since we are arguing, why is your definition of psalm superior to the majority of churches…how is it that you and your church are so enlightened?
What is the difference between a psalm, hymn, and spiritual song? All three are used in Eph 5:19. Why would Paul say the same thing 3 times? Is he saying: You guys sing with your voices, sing with your voices, sing with your voices? What is the difference between singing and music, which are also listed in the verse?
I am sure you have a very great angle to interpret these scriptures to defend your approach to worship at your church, and that is fine. But, you should be careful not do denounce everyone else over this issue, especially since it is not critical to salvation and our eternal security in Christ. You are majoring on the minors and minoring on the majors, so they say. Hopefully, some day in eternity, you and I will look back together and think how silly it was to waste all these keystrokes.
Report Post »Clifton
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 11:42amIslesfordian: here is a web site that has a GREAT explaination on the word “Psalms” or the Greek word “Psallo” which in the 1st century meant to sing with voice or vocal music, and not the new interpretation of “plucking string o a harp.”
http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/829-psallo-and-the-instrumental-music-controversy
Report Post »AARABON
Posted on November 28, 2011 at 4:47pmFirst of all, thank you to Clifton, Jay_Gunner, & Isle.. for a “spirited” discussion of the scriptures. Having been brought up the church that sings only, attending churches that have rock concerts for worship, seeing a choir disbanded because of infidelity among some members, hearing bad and good Christian karakoe, I think I’m going to have to go with “we now know only in part but one day when we see Him face to face we will know in full”. Cliff…I have seen a lot of puffed up pride in the sing only singers as much as I have seen in choir singers or guitar players. Satan uses pride as a dangerous tool in destroying music worship. I have seen Churches of Christ split several times over simple disagreements and pride, just like other denominations. I have seen guitar players with tears streaming down their faces while playing and singing praises and worship. While crying is certainly not an indicator of true worship (and can be faked), it is an indicator of a broken and repentant heart. My prayer before music worship is that our thoughts, actions, words, and music be directed to glorify and please the Lord Jesus, and that if our music leads just one soul to give their life to Christ, then all of our talents have been justified in His glorious name……
Report Post »jay_GUNNER
Posted on November 29, 2011 at 1:58am@AARABON
Thanks and I agree with your assessment.
Also, thanks for the feedback. I was beginning to feel as if I were talking to the air, as I received no validation of my effort to remind the readers of Paul’s exhortation to unity.
We (all of those in Christ) need to seek the bigger picture here: 1. Seek maturation in the Lord through life-long commitment to sanctification. 2. Walk worthy of our calling, that is, live up to the title of Ambassadors for Christ. 3. Seek unity in the Spirit within the body of Christ. 4. Win souls for Christ 5. Give authentic sacrifices of praise, heart-felt worship (music or not) to the Lord, all the while worshiping the Lord not just in song, but with our minds, attitudes, hearts, and actions–all of which should produce acts of worship.
Report Post »dissentnow
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:16pmOh, no! Electric guitars! Say it ain’t so? Whats next? Women being allowed to speak out during the service?
Report Post »What is this world coming to?
garyM
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:19pmWhy would you mention women speaking out in church services? Does the Bible instruct women to preach or teach in services where both male and female are present or not, if so where is it located? If not, maybe those people just made that up about women not teaching men and was to have no authority in the church! LOL If they didn’t make it up , what passage could they find anything along those lines? You make the call from the scriptures. I’ve heard people say, well you know the Apostle Paul was addressing different situations of the time in His day and that verse is obsolete now. My answer is, the Holy Spirit that guided the Apostles words was wise enough to give Paul the words he needed to say for any day until Jesus returns for the church. The problem with obedience or disobedience is what I said in an earlier post, it all depends on whether each person or church hears the Word, obeys the word or wants to be PC, do their own thing or be biblical! God gives a choices but along with choices there is always consequences! I praise God because I could NOT do anything to save myself but ask Jesus to save me and he is only one I have to answer to, since he said he gives eternal life, we can count on that if we have been saved. If it wasn’t eternal life, it could be taken away! However when we get out of fellowship with God in disobedience, he is able to make us see that we are and when we are wrong,… there is always earthly consequences for individuals and local churches!
Report Post »ItsallaboutJesus
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:13pmJesus desires our Worship of Him to be heartfelt and real. He knows what is coming out of our hearts and what is not. The form of music is a personal preference. But———Satan can and will use the issue to devide the Church. Don’t let him in the door!
Report Post »ItsallaboutJesus
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:16pmdivide
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:12pmIt depends on which harmonic is being used and what message they are trying to project.
Report Post »Reboot_My_Freedom
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:11pmEverything but rap. Some people will follow the sound of Music before they will listen to the message and then decide if it is the Church for them.
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 7:18pmThats not BIble! The Word is the source to salvation not a rock band. It is up to GOd to call whom he may according to the word, we have to give the word not song
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:09pmToo many times as a chaplain I have seen this particular subject sunder a church into two or more factions, and then tear the congregations apart completely. There has to be found the balance that the leadership, AND the various generations and outlooks of the congregation itself in regards to the music done.
However in all matters, the one who has the final responsibility for the hard choices is the head pastor themselves. With them, the buck stops there in the end for accountability and responsibility.
Report Post »PATRIOTGRUNT
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:08pmNot an issue in my Church ( Catholic) Organ and singing only.
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:13pmMine was traditional Adventist; one very old, and small organ and only one person who could play it; we may not have been the best singers in the world, yet as the good book declared “make a joyous noise unto the Lord…” and that is what we did.
What people need to understand it is not just the music itself that matters, it is the expression of the joy coming from the HEART, from the LOVE, HOPE, JOY, and FAITH that they put into it, each one of the members who sing.
Too many people fall into the trap of wanting the music to be entertaining for entertainment sake alone; not understanding there are reasons for the joyful, the sorrow, the stern, the contemplative sets of them.
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