Faith

Young Adults Are Abandoning Church In Record Numbers — Is This the Solution?

Young Adults Are Leaving Churches In Record Numbers | CityONE NetworkChristian churches in America are struggling to attract and retain young adults. Considering that appealing to these individuals is essential if houses of worship hope to develop and progress, diverse denominations are beginning to team up rather than competing against one another for congregants. Take, for example, Charlotte ONE, a collaborative organization of around 40 churches that have come together in an attempt to attract 20 and 30 somethings in Charlotte, North Carolina.

In an article for The Wall Street Journal, Naomi Schaefer Riley covered this intriguing project as well as the many questions that denominations are faced with when it comes to courting young people in contemporary society. As Riley notes, the Barna Group has done a great deal of research on what causes young people to abandon Christian houses of worship, as church engagement has been found to fall by as much as 43 percent among individuals who fall between the ages of 18 and 29.

In fact, young adults are abandoning the church at a rate that is five or six times more prevalent than it has been historically. And twenty-five percent of young people in the 18 to 29 demographic would select “none” if asked for their religious affiliation. With these metrics in mind, it‘s clear that many churches are failing America’s young adult population.

Thus, the goal of Charlotte ONE is for denominations to come together in an effort to attract and hold young adults’ attention. While mainline and evangelical Protestant churches from various denominations would typically be trying to outdo one another to bring adherents into individual church doors, as Riley writes, “desperate times call for desperate measures.”

The group’s web site perfectly illustrates its goals:

CharlotteONE is a collaborative outreach service of over 40 local churches to reach 20-30 somethings for Christ and connect them to a local faith community. On Tuesday nights throughout the year, over 500 young professionals from across the metro area gather together as ONE to worship God in the heart of Uptown.

In her piece, Riley describes how the program works, while delving into the reasons why competition may be hampering the churches’ ability to attack young followers:

The organizers say they are happy to see the free market at work in other arenas, but they worry that “shopping for God,” as one book title recently had it, is not an appropriate way to view faith.

So a group of evangelical and mainline Protestant leaders here decided to create one young adult ministry that would provide all of the bells and whistles required, without replacing church. Charlotte ONE does not perform baptisms, weddings, funerals or offer communion. It doesn’t meet on Sundays or have a single pastor in charge. Sermons are “bible-based” and generally evangelical in their outlook, but the leaders try to steer clear of controversial issues (religious and political) that might divide their sponsoring churches.

Charlotte ONE’s organizers see it as a kind of “funnel,” taking in a wide swath of people and trying to pour them out in the right direction. The group takes its motivation from Jesus’ words in John 17:23: “Let them be one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as much as you have loved me.”

Young Adults Are Leaving Churches In Record Numbers | CityONE Network

A screen shot from the CityONE web site

While some detractors would claim that competition — even among churches — is healthy, the Charlotte ONE model is the polar opposite of such a paradigm, as it seeks to fill in the gaps to attract younger individuals. Already, the results may be paying off. One survey of participants purportedly showed that 98 percent of respondents believe the organization has assisted their “personal relationship with Jesus Christ.” More than four in 10 also claim that it has helped them to connect with local churches.

The Charlotte-based group is only one of two initiatives launched so far (PhoenixONE recently commenced operations). It is a part of a larger, national group called the CityONE Network. The non-profit organization’s web site provides a more general definition of it’s overall goals: “…to empower local churches to reach 20-30somethings together in cities across the nation.”

It seems this unique pattern could be making its way to other cities across America. For those looking for a solution to bringing youths back into the faith fold, the CityONE program could provide essential assistance.

(H/T: Wall Street Journal)

Comments (494)

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  • janedough1
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:28pm

    You DO NOT water down the word of God to chase down people who don’t want Him. You will NEVER bring them to repentance that way. You are doing the exact thing that Abraham and Sarah did, when they decided that God didn’t know what he was talking about when He sent angels to tell them they would have a child. Even God was not that powerful. They would have to help him along by using Sarah’s Egyptian slave, because God was too bumbling, weak and stupid to know that Sarah was too old GOD WAS NOT BUMBLING, WEAK OR STUPID! Sarah and Abraham did have that child, but not until they were both 13 years OLDER than they were when Ishmael was born. God is still on his throne. Revival has come before, and it will come again, in GOD’S OWN TIME!
    Do not help God along! It always ends badly. Trust and obey! In 1792, this country was in much worse shape, according to the late church historian J. Edwin Orr. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSAJI2W1hu4&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL6FCCA3E2ED95A928

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    • ClunkerT
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:01pm

      Many of the mainline denominational churches have been losing people for years. When “political correctness” took the place of sound doctrine, they began to collapse under their false doctrines. Opening their memberships to homosexuals and then taking up voting on the subject and then advancing to ordaining homosexual pastors was a disaster. This apostasy has spread to nearly every main line denomination.

      Americans recreate themselves on Sundays. They attend sporting events at every level on Sundays, some participating some as spectators, the church takes back seat.

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    • westtitus
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:02pm

      Amen and Amen! This is an odd survey since our Church is on the campus of OU in Oklahoma and we are seeing record numbers of young people coming to Church and staying…don’t know where they are getting their numbers?

      Report Post » westtitus  
    • MONICNE
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:21pm

      There is a HUGE difference between, “going to church services” and “Being A Christian.”

      We do not need big Mosques, Temples, or Crystal Palaces! We do not need mega-institutions like the Catholic-Americans do, and/or disaster storage like the Mormon-Americans do, to know the One Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ.

      TEA

      Report Post » MONICNE  
    • Shiroi Raion
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:22pm

      I hope this is wrong. If this the youth are really leaving in such a sudden surge, the average citizen is guaranteed to become even more amoral and immoral than it already has since the sudden surge 1960′s hippie days. Without morality, the country is doomed to have just another corrupt government and irresponsible citizens… not the “beacon of light” America was supposed to be. The Progressives have no moral compass to replace the church. They simply use consensus… like lemmings, they are following each other and marching into the river unwittingly destroying themselves. I will not follow them.
      I was raised by a Progressive, racist, intolerant and bigoted father who blindly followed AFL-CIO’s orders and hated all religion. I had to turn the family around and teach them… my dad is no longer a Democrat, but he is still the same angry and intolerant soul. To be honest, I don’t know if he quit the Democrat party because of what I taught the rest of the family or because his irrational hatred of blacks is stronger than his irrational hatred of religion, but everyone else in the family understands the principles of small government and freedom, the need for cutting taxes and regulation, the insanity of Keynesian economics, and the need for a moral compass to curb the rampant corruption.

      Report Post » Shiroi Raion  
    • AvengerK
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:37pm

      Yes MORACNE…of course..and we’ll take away all those Catholic charities and hospitals too?

      Report Post »  
    • MONICNE
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:46pm

      We know Prayer cannot be taken from us.
      My Bad! .. You need to read slowly…

      Are you upset that Australia has American Marines protecting you from China, and that the Americans won World War II for you? You do realize that without Yank GI’s you would be making sushi all day, if they let you live? And you would not be able to pretend you are a US Citizen, (which you did not definitively claim is true!) Wussie!

      LOL – SpecialK; You act like a typical Bishop; should those charities apologize for pedophilia or just homosexuality?

      TEA

      Report Post » MONICNE  
    • contkmi
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:50pm

      Uh, yeah, cuz Jesus NEVER went to where the sinners actually were and Jesus NEVER talked to people in terms they could understand…

      Get a clue, people. Are you still preaching from the KJV? Still whipping people with fire & brimstone?

      Report Post » contkmi  
    • Git-R-Done
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:01pm

      Monicne – But you need big government and you need big government to shut down any institution that doesn’t worship big government.

      Report Post »  
    • NHwinter
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:07pm

      MONICNE – The average Catholic goes to a small parish church. There are cathedrals, but most of them were build a very long time ago. I wish the bashing of faiths would stop. It seems so unChristian and divisive. I don’t believe mosques are churches or that Islam is a religion (exception to bashing of faiths).

      Report Post » NHwinter  
    • AvengerK
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 6:05pm

      TYPICAL reactionary lefty cur you are MOREACNE. For the actions of a few homosexuals and pedophiles we should dismantle every Christian charity and hospital in the world that help countless hundreds of thousands of people, is that right? Have you always been this much of an idiot?

      Report Post »  
    • AvengerK
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 6:14pm

      MORACNE..why would I be upset that Australia enjoys a good relationship with America? Absolutely I’m grateful that the U.S. helped Australia during WWII. I‘m not sure what you’re trying to gain by trying to stigmatize that relationship.
      You being a lefty cur, have an innate contempt for the U.S. military however.
      I’ve become a U.S. citizen because I love the U.S. it’s a great country and a great people. Unfortunately lefty operatives like you want to turn it into the mess Europe is today. I’m happy to stop you from doing that.

      Report Post »  
    • TH30PH1LUS
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 7:31pm

      If American churches want to see conversions, then we must revisit the book of Acts, where we can observe the birth of the Church, see the ingredients that made it powerful and effective. “Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.” (Acts 2:41) and also “But many who heard the message believed; so the number of men who believed grew to about five thousand.” (Acts 4:4) and also “So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.” (Acts 6:7) and also “And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.” (Acts 2:47)

      As I read Acts, these ingredients are:

      1. intense prayer.
      2. obedience to Christ.
      3. power of the Holy Spirit.
      4. bold preaching.
      5. selfless acts of kindness
      6. generous giving.
      7. call to repentence.
      8. miracles.
      9. sharing of communion.
      10. attention to Bible study.

      Report Post » TH30PH1LUS  
    • Directoratasmallbusiness
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 8:09pm

      My church, which is part of its largest form of the church’s denomination in the US has been addressing this same issue. It is true that young adults are having a hard time finding Jesus. Jesus taught the new covenant which supersedes the “Holiness Code” taught during the time of Moses. Recent study, 18 – 24 year olds were asked what 3 words or phrases came to mind when they heard the word Christian. The answers were: close-minded, hypocrite, and anti-gay. All of you unreceptive people who are not ready for change need to HURRY UP AND LEARN if you want your children to be Christian. Otherwise, your children will grow up to not be Christians and their children until the point the US is not considered a Christian nation or the most prominent religion.
      Homosexual love is not a sin. It is my church’s view that discrimination of gays is something the church will not stand for just as my church was the first church in my city to open the doors to African American people in the 1960s. I hope your church is too. If you are having a hard time, I understand. Most people do not like change. However, if you read the book below I am sure it would be a good start. Read – A Time to Embrace:
      Same-Gender Relationships in Religion, Law, and Politics
      by William Stacy Johnson a professor at Princeton Theological Seminary

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    • P8riot
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 8:15pm

      @TH30PH1LUS

      Well said! Great citations as well. I would only add a couple ingredients as found in Acts 2:46

      46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

      They were thus in “one accord” and “singleness of heart” (one denomination) and worshiped in “the temple” –

      Further, Christ himself gave us a few more ingredients for the organization of His Church:

      twelve apostles:

      Luke 6:13 – ¶And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

      He Then organizes groups of elders in quorums of seventy within his Church (Luke 10:1)

      Finally, we’re taught that Christ himself is the chief cornerstone of the foundation of his Church and His church should continue to be also be build on these Apostles and a Prophet. (Ephesians 2:20)

      Just a few more ingredients Christ added :)

      Just a few more ingredients :)

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • kryptonite
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 8:17pm

      “…competition may be hampering the churches’ ability to attack [sic] young followers.”

      Hahaha. I don’t usually bother pointing out typos or grammar slips since I expect others to forgive my trespasses as I forgive theirs, but I couldn’t let this one pass.

      I think it is healthy for Christians to unite. We are living in perilous times, and the Body of Christ is strengthened when we gather “in one accord.” That being said, NOBODY will want religion in the end times. Social Christianity can’t compete against the carnal attractions of Islamism (for men), nihilism, socialism and all the other -isms Satan has to offer. So I hope they are strategizing in the Spirit, because for young people it’s either a living Christ, or thanks but no thanks.

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    • HappyStretchedThin
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 8:20pm

      Janedough and others, I like your sentiment. I give full credit to this kind of Christian for their passion for bringing the message of Christ to others, and even though the impulse of making the message understandable to the people is correct and laudable, it still makes me cringe a little to hear them apply marketing terms to the Gospel message. Christ’s truth, in my opinion, should not be diluted by confusion with worldly methods of communication, but instead these youth need a clearer alternative to the world.
      @ Monicne
      I often laugh at your saucy posts–it’s much more palatable to deal with your lefty trolling when its done via satire and sarcasm (i.e. humor) than it is when your alter ego Encicom just plainly trolls. As usual, though, you both are wrong, logicless, and factually inaccurate.
      Condemning catholicism because some priests did unspeakable things is like wanting to do away with rubber because you’ve seen a car with a flat on the side of the road. Those evil priests are examples of the ABUSE of their faith, NOT examples of their faith. Try comparing the good most Catholics do with the good most government does instead of comparing one side‘s good with one side’s bad. Then there may be a little merit to your arguments.
      TEA INDEED!

      Report Post » HappyStretchedThin  
    • Directoratasmallbusiness
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 8:29pm

      Acts 8: 36- 40 36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” [37] [c] 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea.

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    • From Virginia
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 8:45pm

      Yep! My church has more young people than old people. We also have waaaay more kids than young people. My church also sticks with the basics. Nothing sugar coated, but it’s also not a h3ll-fire and brimstone church either. Questions you have about doctrine actually are answered.

      Like you said – watering down the word and being acceptable to the world is NOT going to keep your church full. People are in the world already. They don’t need the world in church. They wat sanctury from the world. They want the word of God.

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 9:02pm

      Yo p8riot:

      We have been here before … Eph 2:20 say’s…“built on the foundation of the apostiles and the PROPHETS” .. not “A” prophet like you tried to sneak in ……..

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    • snooop1e
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 9:04pm

      This is the expected outcome from “Solo-Scriptura“ where everyone picks up the Bible and starts the church according to ”ME”. The emerging church believes that only the “essentials” are necessary but just like everything else in Protestantism nobody can agree on what the “essentials” are. If the body of Christ truly is “invisible” how can anyone know where to go to find objective truth and/or to know the will of God? It’s impossible and inevitably people are tossed about by every wind of doctrine and each individual becomes their own Pope deciding for themselves what objective truth is. Don’t like your church or disagree with your Pastors interpretation of scripture? Start your own church and teach your version of the objective truth.

      Eph 2:1-3
      Eph 4:17-24
      Eph 5:3-12
      Heb 5:9
      Heb 6:4-6
      Heb 10:26
      Rom 2:6
      Rom 2:9
      Rom 2:13
      Rom 2:7-8
      Rom 14:12
      Numbers 15:30
      Col 3:5-8
      Col 3:23-25
      1 Cor 6:9
      1 Cor 10:13
      1 Cor 11:27
      2 Cor 5:10
      Matt 7:21
      Matt 10:38
      Matt 12:36-37
      Matt 12:50
      Matt 16:27
      Matt 25:40-46
      Luke 9:23
      Luke 14:27
      Luke 18:9-14
      Luke 18:29-30
      John 6:66
      John 8:51
      John 9:31
      John 12:48
      John 12:50
      John 13:17
      John 14:15
      John 14:23
      1 John 1:6-7
      1 John 2:4
      3 John 1:4
      3 John 1:11
      1 Peter 3:12
      1 Peter 3:21
      1 Peter 4:17
      2 Peter 2:20
      2 Peter 3:7
      2 Peter 3:16-17
      James 1:12-15
      James 1:21-22
      James 1:26-27
      James 2:14-27
      James 4:3
      James 4:6-9
      James 4:17
      James 5:16
      Jeremiah 11:6
      2 Thes 2:11
      2 Thes 2:13-15
      Gal 5:19-21
      Gal 5

      Report Post » snooop1e  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 9:10pm

      Yo TH30PHILUS:

      Many think that America needs a revival …problem is you can only “revive” something that already was … and that would be us … when/if we get ourselves back to that list for our days purpose … some things just might change!

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 9:20pm

      Yo Snoop1e:

      I’m confussed … does not sola-scripture do away with the “me” factor in letting scripture explain scripture?

      Report Post »  
    • HappyStretchedThin
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 9:33pm

      4Truth,
      You‘ve missed P8triot’s point and key doctrinal distinction that Paul‘s message to the Ephesians wasn’t to rely solely on their own interpretation of scripture, but that the church should include the guidance of Christ’s direction to LIVING apostles and prophets. If the living part is not key, why continue ordaining the rest of the officers listed in the verse a few chapters later (here: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/eph/4.11-14?lang=eng#10)?

      Report Post » HappyStretchedThin  
    • ScottG-CO
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 9:59pm

      DIRECTORATASMALLBUSINESS-

      perhaps you should read
      Leviticus 18:22: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

      Leviticus 20:13: If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

      So if your church is Christian, how do you answer this? SOME of the Bible is good and some bad? Sorry, having your cake and eating it too…….well, you know.

      Report Post »  
    • endgamer
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:11pm

      This isn’t watering down the word of GOD but it may be one of the reasons..

      Interesting Biblical Scripture

      Exodus 21:20 Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

      Psalm 123:2 As the eyes of slaves look to the hand of their master, as the eyes of a maid look to the hand of her mistress, so our eyes look to the LORD our God, till he shows us his mercy.

      Ephesians 6:4-6: Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord. Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.

      Leviticus 25:44-46 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      Ephesians 6:5: Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

      Report Post » endgamer  
    • endgamer
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:12pm

      Continued:

      Ephesians 6:9: And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

      Colossians 3:22: Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.

      Colossians 4:1: Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

      Titus 2:9-10: 9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, 10 and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.

      1 Peter 2:18: Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

      1 Timothy 6:1-2 1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves.

      Report Post » endgamer  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:14pm

      Yo Happy:

      I did not miss anything in all due respect.( I believe you acussed me of this before and you were completely wrong there also), I spoke to ONE SIMPLE verse with ONE SIMPLE principle. The scripture is self explainitory and has NO need of “interpretation.” It also has nothing to do with other positions appointed in the church.

      The “living” part you speak of would be nothing more then what we are ALL called to do, and that is to “walk in the spirit.” Having revelation for the direction for ones church or individual lives is certainly how we are to live.

      I am not against the gift of prophesy … just against trying to lay more foundation after it has been laid, and pronounced … finished

      Report Post »  
    • endgamer
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:15pm

      This could be the reason too:
      http://youtu.be/fM78_ZEE-Os

      Report Post » endgamer  
    • usedCZARsalesman
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:50pm

      Maybe all of you that are so quick to bash this are assuming things you don’t know about it. Did they say they would be teaching something NOT in the Bible? They just said they would stay at a distance from subjects that are particularly divisive…is that really a terrible thing in this day and age?

      Who are any of us to pigeon hold God anyway? Is it not in his power to use this for good? All you must have a much firmer grasp of the Lord than I do because I would not DARE presume to restrict the things/people God can do work HIS miracles and HIS will through…but that’s just me.

      Report Post » usedCZARsalesman  
    • Spursfan
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:05pm

      There is so much wrong with this approach to much to comment on. We could all learn a great lesson from the folks in Berea! Acts 17:11 – ..received the word with readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily to see if it was so.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:05pm

      Yo Endgamer:
      Video = fact or foolish?
      Also … maybe the reason is lack of understanding, or the lack to want to understand, or maybe people just want to be their own god … think maybe?

      Think maybe it’s just the way people are?
      Think maybe that‘s just what the bible say’s they/we are like.
      Interesting how a book written so long ago could predict exactly how people would react to it.

      Report Post »  
    • HappyStretchedThin
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:06pm

      Hi 4truth,
      Yup, I remember our discussion from before.
      As with the last time, you accuse people of misinterpretation, but seem unable to bring your own interpretation into question.
      There very fact that you call P8triot or myself out on being “wrong” about “self-explanatory” scriptures points to the fact that they’re not self explanatory at all, and DO require interpretation.
      You say the passage in question is clear that the church needs a foundation of apostles and prophets. We’re in agreement on that. But you use it to mean the dead ones whose writings we have are sufficient. P8triot and I think it’s live ones like Paul the writer at the time, with their link to revelation from Christ that form the foundation. Christ is a corner-stone remember: something to build upon, not the end of the edifice.
      I brought in a new verse from the same epistle. One that brings more context to explicate the first. We still need living pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth for the church’s benefit, no? Why do we not need living apostles and prophets then? This is the implication of your theology, and it‘s clearly at odds with the organization of Christ’s church in Peter’s day. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesy, yes, but the term “prophet” also pertains to a specific office within the church. Not everyone walking in the Spirit has the same office or calling.
      I repeat: you missed the point.

      Report Post » HappyStretchedThin  
    • NeoFan
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:56pm

      As goes the family so goes the church. Neither can survive without the other. Gods basic building block of society is the family. The church strengthens the family and the family upholds the church.
      The adversary spends most of his energy attacking the family. Bring them up in the way they should go and when they are old they will not depart from it. Parents that are a good loving example to their kids that teach correct principles of the gospel are essential. It must be passed on.

      Report Post »  
    • endgamer
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:58pm

      Yo 4truth2all.
      Video is FACT = look it up + like Glenn sez do your own homework.. I DID!!
      No people don’t want to be their own GOD.. They’re just tired of being lied to.
      I also do NOT want another Neo-Religious Right like Glenn is creating. It will be more regulation and slavery. This time by the church.. No Thank you. I left the church for those reasons..

      Report Post » endgamer  
    • lthm
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 4:14am

      Ugh, I wish people would stop trying to prove homosexuality is bad by quoting scripture. The is absolutely nothing in the Bible that says homosexuals aren’t loved by God just as much as anyone else.

      For those who are quoting from the story of Sodom in Genesis, read it in context–neither God nor Lot was upset that the men in the city wanted to have sex with other men. The men of the city were unrighteous in Lot’s eyes because they wanted to have sex with angels. You’ll also note that the angels were fine with staying in the city square. You’ll also note that the only righteous man in the city, Lot, offered up his daughters to be raped by the men instead. Fantastic.

      Law from Leviticus proves nothing except those were the rules of the time. Jesus established the new law when He lived among us, culminating in His perfect sacrifice which signified the end of the old laws. Or do you still sacrifice animals, because the Old Testament told you to?

      The mentions of “homosexuality” in the New Testament are vague at best, and more than likely resulting from personal bias or lack of understanding of the ancient cultures when being translated. There is absolutely no clear condemnation of homosexuality under the new law. What is clear is that we are given two very clear commands by Jesus Himself: Love God; love each other.

      Please stop trying to usurp God’s message with your personal bias/distaste against people who are different from you. Here’s some ho

      Report Post »  
    • Xylliab_of_the_Znarghh
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 4:22am

      FOOLISH HUMANS, we of the Znarghh SNEER at your primitive Earth religions. The minds of matter-based life forms can encompass but infinitesimal glimpses of the unknowable will of Zorchlon the All-Creator. Your puny humans minds are as inferior to the minds of the Znarghh as ours are to the infinite mind of the All-Creator, yet even the wisest sages of Znarghhdom are like unto the blind men examining the parts of the elephant, some saying it is like unto a rope, others a snake or a tree trunk. Your primitive Earth prophets are like unto blind men playing with the droppings of the elephant and arguing about whether the elephant is hard and crusty like rock or soft and squishy like mud.

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    • thekuligs
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 4:35am

      As one of the people in this age range, I have to say; heck yeah I left. You know why? I had SO many issues with my parents church, and I could not over come them. I spent my whole youth trying. They had strange rules, and my mother would even rank other denominations by how much she disliked them. No tollerence, and as a kid, in most cases, you get no choice.

      That doesn‘t mean I didn’t go back to church. But it took the birth of my second child and a promise I made to God that day to get me to do it. And I didn’t like the first church I found my way to. The more specific a churches “rules” become, the more shopping it seems you have to do. Gone are the pioneer days where ever person in town would come together on Sunday and for a moment you are all the same even if you are very different. Now everyone is different, and that makes it harder to find where you belong. Factor in the secular world telling you that you are ignorant for believing in some flying sky God you can’t see, and it might just be impossible. The left has made God uncool–but please don‘t go all Buddy Jesus because that won’t work either.

      The sad thing is, it seems the world is headed for a time of hardship and disaster. While personally, I’d rather not have to live through that–I believe that God, for many, will be found in adversity. Sorry for typos, I woke up in the middle of the night and decided to read The Blaze.

      Report Post » thekuligs  
    • dr_funk
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 4:50am

      I’m sick and tired of putting up with stubborn, selfish, rigid church leadership that is unwilling to change the worship style to attract younger members. It is not watering down God’s word to bring quality music into worship services. Martin Luther took peoples’ favorite bar songs and brought them into the church service and put new lyrics to them. It got people to come to church, because they already knew the tunes.

      Meanwhile, we have stubborn church leadership that believes dry, lethargic organ-accompanied hymns are the way into heaven, and that crashing symbols and electric guitars are the devil’s work. But the Bible itself dispels this myth. Psalms 150. Read it.

      Also meanwhile, we have this same church leadership sits on their hands when the national or state hierarchy decides to let practicing homosexuals lead congregations.

      Mainline protestant churches are becoming meaningless. And its because people are stubborn and selfish, and yet total cowards at the same time.

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    • rangerp
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 6:48am

      @Janedough

      very good comments indeed.

      The modern church in America ran far to the left with watered down messages, rock and roll shows, and tom foolery. They got so involved in the church league sports, kids programs, and other stuff.

      Very few churches left actually preaching on sin, giving the message of salvation, supporting missionaries, bussing in the poor kids, feeding the widows and orphans.

      Young people go see the shallowness, and the rock music. They see the church as being just another club or organization, and not something life changing, they do not need it

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • rangerp
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 8:13am

      LTHM

      You need to read the first chapter of the book of Romans. Homosexuality is as much a sin under grace, as it was under the law.

      Report Post » rangerp  
    • kadster01
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 8:50am

      @THEKULIGS

      Even in the middle of the night you made perfect sense to me! I am a bit older than the age group in question, but I left the church for many of the same reasons when I was in that age group. Its not a new phenomena. Unfortunately, it is usually the older members and their rigid interpretations of scripture that alienate the youth. As I’ve often said, nothing wrecks Christianity like “Christians.”

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    • swsb6x
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 8:59am

      JANEDOUGH1 You said : “You will NEVER bring them to repentance that way”. We do not bring anyone to repentance God does. 2 Timothy 2:24-26 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

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    • swsb6x
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 8:59am

      NHWINTER The Christian faith is divisive, see Matthew 25 and the parable of the sheep and the goats.

      Report Post »  
    • jhaydeng
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 9:01am

      As a Roman Catholic we don’t discuss “all” books of either Testaments. Why? Don’t know. The strictness and don’t ask why attitude that the Catholic church exudes may be an issue for Catholics! Young people are looking for answers and proof right away and can’t accept the because it “just is” position of God. It’s not a sin, it’s merely questioning the very existence that we have about anything in life. Until you have something happen in your life that proves there is a God most will always be skeptical. When that something happens it is truly life changing though I will attest!

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    • toomuchgovt
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 9:08am

      When churches preach a political message that is against the church doctrine people leave. Joe Biden the VP of the US, a Catholic and is for gay marriage? Nancy Pelosi the house minority leader, for Majority leader and a Catholic is for Abortion? both are against the catholic faith. Either a church is going to stand on principle or it will fall on ideologue. At least the Muslims stand for what they believe, I don’t agree with that belief but at least they are united on what that belief is. Untied we stand, divided we will (surely) fall.

      Report Post » toomuchgovt  
    • DTOM_Jericho (Creator vindicator)
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 9:09am

      @ranger
      The Law IS Grace. Grace is “old testament” as well. You really need to read the first half of Scripture. The Law is not done away with and is not opposed to Grace. It’s not one or the other. It’s both!

      ““Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. ”

      Fulfill in the original language literally means to fill full. That is, to give meaning. Even if you think that isn’t correct, you have issues: “jesus” would be a liar. Earth is still here and all has not been accomplished(His return).

      Yeshua(“jesus”) is the Messiah and did not(and cannot by His own Word) remove any Laws until Heaven and earth pass. Not to mention you have the issues in Scripture of Ya’akov(James) instructing Sha’ul(Paul) to take a vow that required SACRIFICES. You also have “Paul” saying quite clearly that he needed to stop to make OFFERINGS before returning for Passover(not pagan easter). The point: the sin you mentioned is a sin because of The Law.

      Report Post » DTOM_Jericho (Creator vindicator)  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 9:11am

      Yo Happy:

      What is it with you and “my missing the point”. Are you reading my posts ??? Maybe I’m doing a poor job of explaining my “understanding” of scripture. I think I have keep my statements quite simple and easy to follow. By the VERY words used in Ephesians (which by the way I used in the other thread as and example) and elsewhere the CHIEF cornerstone is Christ, the apostles and profits are the stones (living stones , per scripture). that are built off of the chief cornerstone. When the last stone is laid the foundation is finished …finished means finished! Just as in a house, which is the reason this example is used; so we can “see” it in our mind; thus making it easy to understand, so that even a child can understand it. Being in this trade myself it makes it even more “personable”. WHEN THE FOUNDATION IS DONE IT IS DONE … NO MORE FOUNDATION …next the framing of the walls and so on … you don’t go back and lay more stone on the foundation at this point !!! There is NO reason for me to bring this into question …I KNOW it … that is called TRUTH!

      I have continuously said and will yet again say that I have no problem with the “structure” that is built APON the FOUNDATION, be it a 2×4 wall stud, a window, door or a rafter. I also have said we are gifted differently and serve in various ways ( the body of Christ, with Christ as the head), the apostolic gift is not the same as being an apostle.

      cont.

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 9:32am

      Happy:

      Rev. 21:14 The wall of the foundation had TWELVE FOUNDATIONS, and on them were the NAMES of the TWELVE APOSTLES of the LAMB.

      There is no 13 or other, or another

      I am 4 TRUTH if you got it … great ! I do not care who has it or where I find it and would be more than “Happy” to accept it from you.
      I am truly sorry, but I let scripture TELL me and I use scripture as the “measuring rod” in judging ALL things and I adjust my “thinking” accordingly. It is as simple as that!

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    • ashestoashes
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 9:48am

      One of the greatest rivals in history kicked off in Wales then Azusa Street and Bonne Brae..I believe these revivals happened and caught fire because of prayer..they lasted for quite some time..when the Holy Spirit is invited and gets involved..miracles happen..it should never be about money..it should be about Jesus/Yeshua..his work on the cross..love..and much prayer and heartfelt worship..I find it hard to believe that with worship alone.. that church attendance is low. ..This is the time of harvest..there is not much time left..look at the world around us..there is no turning back.

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 9:59am

      Yo Endgamer:

      I asked YOU if YOU believe the video to be the TRUTH/ factual or not. Are you saying yes? If so you seem to condradict yourself ( forgive me if I mis-understand).

      The more godless our society becomes, more rules are necessary to keep law and order. And this is exactly what we see. That is why TRUE FREEDOM is found in Christ. Freedom is not the right to do whatever one wants, it is the right to do what is right, When that is not done then government steps in instituting more law (rules and regulations).
      In you’re opinion … how is the church lying to people?
      What is the Neo-religious right?

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    • encinom
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 10:03am

      As today’s Churches become the last havens for bigots, as the evangelicals reject science in favor of myth and supersitions today’s educated Christian are rejecting them. Read any post on the Blaze, the typical Christian here spews any endless parade of holier than thou condemnations on anyone who behaviors different or thinks different. The youth of today are rejecting the absolutism of the past. Christ was a man of peace and love, yet the Christ the right wing presents is a bigot filled with hate.

      As Ghandi said “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

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    • Jezreel
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 10:04am

      Organized religion use entertainment and all kinds of way to try to attact young people except for using the truth and the power of Jesus Christ. Not only is the youth leaving but adults too because Jesus is not there. You get these hirelings who preach “tithing” for their paychecks and on Sundays it is not the assemblying of the saints, it is “gatherings programmed by man”. I am happy that the system of organized religion is being destroyed. It is part of the world system. His true people, those who are truly His, will be gatherered together by the sound of a trumpet while the church world goes on to teach it’s silly doctrines especially about the rapture. I actually meet church goers who are not preparing for the worst who believe that they will go up in the rapture and that God will rescue them. I wish it were that way, I truly do. I would love there to be a rapture like these false teachers have been teaching the people. God has to separate the tares from the wheat. The tares will FIRST be gathered into bundles to be burned but the wheat will b gathered into the barn. People just don’t read their bibles and seek God in spirit and in truth. The warm the pew on Sundays because they love the social aspect and being seen of man.

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    • waring850
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 10:47am

      Well, i am just going to tell you like it is. The bible, its a great book of parabiles. You see the various faces of man, not god. God does not exist. If god was real, then why do i have a very troubled past. I thought god looked out for his children. It says in the bible that jesus was gods only son, but last time i checked we were all the children of god. Yes, jesus may be the flesh of god, but, i thought we were all related. There is scientific evidence that we are indeed all related. If god was real, then why are all the people who are supposedly stuck in limbo, still there? I mean, the unborn. They were never baptized but never sinned, so they’re stuck in limbo. Why hasn’t god gotten them out of there? In the bible, it says thou shalt not kill. But what is the old testament filled with? If god needed jesus to prove he was real, then obviously god is weak. oh god parted the red sea, well, no he did not. The tide went out. Moses talked to god as a burning bush, well, i bet moses was “Burning some bush”.

      Report Post » waring850  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 11:04am

      Yo Warning850:

      It’s thou shall not MURDER … but that‘s ok you didn’t get anything right.

      If you want to set yourself against God …have a go
      at least KNOW what you set yourself against,
      cause to fight against something you don’t understand would be …well … stupid!
      cause here it is just trying to help … whatever …

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 11:28am

      Yo Encinom:

      Myth … God fearing christians reject science ..as there are many God fearing scientists … much of our current foundation of understanding comes from the like.

      Truth … many today compromise and do not stand on the truth/words of scripture, Instead are lead astray by false teaching.

      “Vengence is mine say’s the Lord”, and is the judger of good and evil, and has blood on His clothes in Revelation.

      Truth … “christians” even the TRUE ones are flawed, have recongized their sins/flaws and struggle with them daily. In this realization they see the need of a saviour …that being Jesus ….NOTHING holier than thou about it.

      Truth … you must continually attempt to insult, demean and defame so as to not see yourself as you are … nothing holy about that!

      Truth … you are constantly corrected yet here you are again … any scripture I post here would not JUDGE you well … the holier than thou thing is not comming from people it comes from God … who is Holier than thou …!

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    • P8riot
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 11:49am

      @4TRUTH2ALL

      Sorry I missed the great conversation! But better late than never :)

      Anyhow, I think you need to look at how Christ has organized his Church and how the gospel has been taught from the beginning… that will help you understand this one scripture better.

      God has always spoken through a designated Prophet (yes, of course the word prophet also applies to each of us when we receive personal revelation, but it is abundantly evident that there is also a title of “Prophet” given to one who leads Christ’s Church)… e.g. Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Joshua, etc.

      Further, Christ used a Prophet, Apostles, and quorums of seventy elders to organize his Church even before he did it himself during his earthly ministry (Exodus 24:9 – “Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel” see also Deuteronomy 27:1 – also see above post for how Christ himself used the same organization).

      This is clearly the case throughout world history (Joshua 4:4 – “Then Joshua called the twelve men, whom he had prepared of the children of Israel, out of every tribe a man”)

      continued:

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • I support God's Israel!
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 11:50am

      There are far too many doctrines, far too many theologies, far too many versions of truth in the “Church” that not all of them can be correct. The proponents of them cause arguments. Friends become estranged. Evil becomes good and good becomes evil. I was once in a conversation with a friend about a certain subject of the Bible. I read to him the exact verse that refuted his errant belief that was taught to him by a false teacher. He told me that I had a right to be wrong and began arguing semantics of various words in the simple verse. When that didn’t work, he argued scientific plausibility. When that argument failed, it became a personal attack. We decided it was best not to discuss it anymore.

      Study the Bible for yourself. Take the time to understand. If you do, then you will find the truth. And often, that truth will be far from what is being taught. Psalm 146:3 says, “Do not trust a prince or upon a son of man, for there is no salvation in his hand.” When you stand before the Lord, it will not be that teacher, preacher, apostle or prophet who saves you. Yeshua warns in Matthew 7:22,23: “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” A word to the wise: know the Word.

      Report Post » I support God's Israel!  
    • P8riot
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 12:04pm

      @4truth – continued -

      Now that you understand that Christ has used this organization from the beginning, and continued to organize His Church this same way himself — and this organization was followed even AFTER his earthly ministry – we come to your conclusion that: “There is no 13 or other, or another” – this is where it becomes evident that you need some help… There ABSOLUTELY was a “13 or other, or another” as clearly described in the Bible…

      When a vacancy occurred with the death of Judas Iscariot, Matthias was divinely appointed to that special office as a member of the council (Acts 1:15–26). Thus, yes, without question, Christ’s twelve Apostles absolutely knew that we were NOT to assume that when one of the Twelve Apostles died, that the foundation was finished and they were not to replace him to keep the quorum. This is irrefutable.

      BTW – it uses the plural for “prophets” for the same reason that we just discussed with Apostles, because when one dies, another will be raised up by God – thus there will be more than one prophet over the years. So actually, the plural of prophets enforces my point that we do not have to rely on past prophets. Why must we have a living Prophet to have the fulness of the gospel? Look at Amos 3:7 “Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”

      I hope you now understand how Christ’s Church is to be organized. :)

      ..

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • HappyStretchedThin
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 12:10pm

      @4truth,
      Look, I respect you for your solid standing up for doctrine and scripture. We agree on so much that it almost seems a waste to point to our disagreements. I just really think you’re keeping yourself blind to your own blindness by asserting things like “scriptures are self-explanatory”, and then taking them to mean things they were never intended to mean. There‘s been a whole discourse centuries old built up around scriptural terms such that you don’t even realize when you’re crossing over from scriptural to extra-scriptural sometimes.
      You want me to be literal, but you’re the one who claims “living” means something other than “physically alive”, but rather means something more like “walking in the Spirit”.
      You want me to think the allegory of a foundation means there’s no need for continuing revelation, or even authorized representatives-no need for a “Priesthood”-but that’s an interpretation, and one I can’t share. The NT shows no examples of people just claiming to have a gift of prophecy or an “apostolic gift” (what verse shows how THAT’s distinct from BEING an apostle?–extra-biblical doctrine again!) and going off merrily to speak for Christ. The contrary is the pattern: calling FIRST, preaching AFTER, healings AFTER, miracles AFTER.
      This is a big detail, because if authority’s necessary, IT’s the foundation, NOT the individuals as you claim (your Rev. cherry-picking is out of context), and your whole interpretive key is moot.

      Report Post » HappyStretchedThin  
    • P8riot
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 12:27pm

      @HAPPYSTRETCHEDTHIN

      Well said.

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • encinom
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 3:23pm

      Myth … God fearing christians reject science ..as there are many God fearing scientists … much of our current foundation of understanding comes from the like.

      Truth … many today compromise and do not stand on the truth/words of scripture, Instead are lead astray by false teaching.
      ______________________
      Sorry, but the earth is more than 6,000 years old, the earth goes around the sun and life evolved on this planet. Seeking truth is not compromising, blindly following the creation myth of ancient goat herders is the sign that you are either too lazy or too stupid to think for yourself.

      Report Post »  
    • Granny58
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 4:18pm

      I too think it is the liberalism that has infected mainline churches and allowing the pedophilia scandal to go on for so long that has left a sour taste in the mouths of youths. My church has a “moderate” stand on homosexuality, almost sanctifying it, certainly not condemning it, and I saw pain on pastor’s face when it was an issue about 2 years ago. For me it was the emotional turning point of not WANTING to be in church. However, though I believe Christianity is in the heart, I think a visible church is important so I do continue to go. I am not fervent on attending though.

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 4:38pm

      And there you go again with the attempt to insult, that only works if you’re opinion actually mattered … you are soooooo predictable, EINCINOM

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 5:00pm

      Yo p8riot:
      Not to sound arrogant you teach me nothing …I know “how things are set up”.

      Concerning the 13 … you need to double check what you say … Judas was NEVER one of the 12 per Jesus own prayer to the Father, stating that HE did not lose any that He was given except Judas who was a son of the devil and as stated not one of His. ( I knew you would respond with these verses)

      I give you simplicities and you wobble and wiggle … fine, believe what you will.

      Yo Happy:
      My apologies for maybe not explaining well …because you certainly misunderstand what I have said. I have added nothing and do not take liberties, if that is you’re perception, sorry but you are incorrect. I will agree with you that this conversation goes in circles, and for my part I am finished. As I said to “p8riot’ .. believe what you will … this conversation would be much easier face to face and I harbor no ill feelings toward either of you. We ALL get judged by the same just judge … I leave it to Him

      Report Post »  
    • P8riot
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 6:06pm

      @4TRUTH2ALL

      I’m sorry, but this is getting ridiculous. Seriously? You really don’t know that Judas was one of the original 12 Apostles? I‘m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or not, but in case you’re not, here it is:

      Luke 6:13-16
      “13 ¶And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;…
      14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,
      15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphæus, and Simon called Zelotes,
      16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.”

      Additionally, you never would have made such a claim if you would have bothered to read Acts 1:15-26 as I cited. Acts 1:25 actually states that it was Judas who was being replaced: “That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.”

      There is absolutely no “wobble and wiggle” about it, this is very basic Sunday School stuff.

      Further, if you would have simply read the scriptures I’ve cited, you would see that my opinion has nothing to do with my answer – its simple fact. I have not stated anything that is not directly supported by biblical scripture. You my brother, cannot say the same.

      In a rational discussion, simply saying “you’re wrong” doesn’t make you right. It is pure fact that the scriptures I’ve cited support my averments. You can’t seriously d

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • P8riot
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 6:21pm

      Oops – the end of my paragraph was cut short…

      You can’t seriously deny these basic facts.

      I’ll give you a challenge now – ask yourself “What if God really does still speak to the world through a living Prophet?” What would you be willing to do to find out if this is true? Would you be willing to sacrifice just a few minutes to listen to his words? Would you be willing to simply pray to our Heavenly Father to know if this man was a true Prophet, just as Moses, Abraham, and others were?

      Here’s your chance, here is one of his most recent messages to the world (you can read, listen, or even watch):

      http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2012/04/the-race-of-life?lang=eng

      Then get on your knees and pray to know the truth. I did the same thing in my youth, and the Spirit of God revealed to me that we do indeed have a living Prophet once again that serves as the mouthpiece of God.

      Good luck!

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • marhee9
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 6:24pm

      There is no doubt that our society is in decline, and I think this is a major reason why. Even if you’re not religious, there certainly is validity to trying to live up to a set of standards and values. When you remove that from society, things will not end well for anybody. Just like everything going on with Eric Holder…check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R83lXxK_8SI

      Report Post »  
    • ddajs
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 8:01pm

      Jane:
      Good thought, only when Christians stay with the bible will this work.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 8:06pm

      P8riot:

      You STILL have not explained how you can lay more foundation after it is done !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where is the scripture to support it since you got it all, and you’re last paragraph is exactly my point
      Do you really think that the name of Judas is one of the names written on the foundation of the Holy City spoken of in Rev. 21:14 ????????? Yes, he WAS (NOT IS) one of the “twelve”, that was not my point … are you so dull.
      To speak to me in a condescending manner … to bad for you

      Yo, way ahead of you… prayed long ago for truth and nothing but , and continue that prayer to this day.
      The link …. what … nothing there for me (elementary) … does that make me lost cause I don’t desire to be a LDS?
      I have said nothing that goes against, subtracts from, or adds to scripture and to use you’re words/thought; just cause you don’t get it, understand it or outright disagree does not makeYOU right.

      Report Post »  
    • P8riot
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 8:43pm

      @4truth –

      Okay, maybe I am “dull” – but when someone states that “Judas was NEVER one of the 12” – that usually means that they believe that Judas was never one of the 12…rather than saying he used to be, but now is not. :) (its hard to change what you said when its in writing right above) I’m not trying to embrace you, I‘m simply saying that you seem to be avoiding the scriptures I’ve cited. Do you propose that I’ve misquoted my cited scriptures? If so, please tell me where I’ve misquoted them.

      As for your question regarding the foundation… this again is pretty simple. Imagine a stone foundation upon which a church is built. Now take away one of the stones from the foundation. Should that stone be replaced? Absolutely. That is exactly why when a vacancy occurred with the death of Judas Iscariot a new Apostle was chosen to replace that missing stone from the foundation.

      I really am confused on why you haven‘t disputed the scriptures I’ve cited, yet attempt to dispute what they say. The scriptures, not just me, state in plain language that before and after Christ, the true Church was based on living Prophets and Apostles.

      Thus, if one is seeking Christ’s true Church today, maybe that person should be looking for a Church that is once again based on living Prophets and Apostles. Is God not the same yesterday, today, and forever? (Hebrews 13:8)

      Again, don’t believe me – believe the scriptures.

      Peace brother!

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • P8riot
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 8:50pm

      However, back on topic – :)

      I believe the solution is for parents to teach their children in word and deed.

      What do parents expect when they themselves would only attend church on Easter and Christmas?

      What do parents expect when they have failed to incorporate family prayer into their daily schedules?

      What do parents expect when they themselves have not been truly converted?

      John 5:19 – 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

      Time we as parents step it up to our most sacred responsibility – to raise our children in righteousness. Of course children will make their own choices, but with numbers like these, we as parents need to bear some responsibility here.

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 9, 2012 at 12:24am

      Yo p8riot:
      I thought I was done here but Ican’t let you get away with the foundation reply. I have said that I may not explain things well some times … I did not mean to insult you.
      Was the “stone” of Judas ever laid …as I stated (could not find the verse) Judas was not considered “belonging” to God. Even if his stone was removed it was replaced with another to make the 12. Foundation done.
      My house shall be called a house of prayer … another reference to the earthly kingdom as a house …God’s people are called living stones, and they are built apon the foundation … you DO NOT start the rest of the house until the foundation is completed … this is simple construction and the reason God uses it is so we understand it without complicating it and mis-understanding. God in His infinite wisdom kept it simple.
      Concerning Amos 3:7 first off it is LORD not Lord as you wrote it …this is nothing more than what I have said concerning God speaking through a chosen person = thus say’s the LORD …God does not do this anymore … He speaks to us now through His Word …I am NOT disqualifing the prophetic gifting.

      I am tired… I am done … I will put some scripture together should we met again.

      Report Post »  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 9, 2012 at 4:57am

      4truth if the gospel (more correctly, faith) was to be delivered but once to men on the earth, then Paul would be wrong in writing that the gospel had been revealed earlier to Abraham (Galatians 3:8). And if the gospel was revealed in the days of Jesus, never to disappear from the earth, there would be no necessity for the angel John saw coming in later times to reveal the gospel to the inhabitants of the earth (Revelation 14:6-7).

      I would encourage you to read “Biblical Evidences of an Apostasy” by Michael W. Hickenbotham (http://www.fairlds.org/authors/hickenbotham-michael/biblical-evidences-of-an-apostasy). It has great insight that I think you will find interesting and maybe even enlightening.

      Report Post » Lux  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 9, 2012 at 9:41am

      Yo Lux:

      You are way late here, and I”m not going any further then this … I am not speaking to the continued revelation OF Christ (revelation meaning revealing). I referenced Rev. 21:14 to “HAPPY” and he completely passed it off not even recognizing the fit. I AM SPEAKING TO THE FOUNDATION AND THE HOUSE , which IS STILL BEING BUILT … nothing more!

      AGAIN … I am not denying the continued revealing or revelation of Christ and the foundational aspects; never ONCE have I done so. I deny the ADDING to the FOUNDATION … that IS FINISHED.
      I realize that you can not admit to that otherwise YOU”RE house crumbles.
      AGAIN… please show me the scripture that disproves Eph. 2: 19-21 and the principle of the foundation/house/building/temple …you can not do this because that would mean that scripture contradicts itself, and if that is true we ALL have problem.

      The angel will reveal that which has already been revealed. when I speak to a stranger on the street about Jesus I am giving revelation OF Christ; I am revealing truth to that person …..simple !!! You complicate the issue and that therein is you’re problem.

      If I walk out my front door and find a dollar bill ( a 50 would be nice) it is not new in it’s existance, however it is new to me, having not previously had it.
      ECC. … “there is nothing new under the sun”
      cont.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 9, 2012 at 9:57am

      There is something to wonder about however …. you and you’res say that you pray for truth and found it in LDS. I say that I did/do the same and it ain’t happening. Why the difference, if indeed all concerned are sincere and lead by the same spirit? I have this question before the LORD. I would say more here, but believe I will wait …later

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 9, 2012 at 10:33am

      Yo Lux:

      I was reluctant, (not because I was fearful) but I read the Link
      Don’t disagree on the falling away. We in our individual lives can fall away (back slide).

      I happen to own a 1946 Ford flatbed that I use for my business. At one point I restored it, kinda … to restore something means you bring it back to ORIGIONAL condition. New parts may be needed because some are bad or completely missing. However, any parts that are put back on the car/truck are not NEW to the truck, they are the SAME as what was replaced. Do other then that and it is called customizing, which I did.

      THE POINT … nothing “new” is added even though “new” parts are used.
      If you do not “understand” this … I don’t know what to say … as what I have said is biblicly true.

      Report Post »  
    • P8riot
      Posted on May 9, 2012 at 11:24am

      @4TRUTH2ALL – We’re now going in circles, so I’ll leave it at this –

      I believe (and we are both free to believe differently) that Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. I thus believe that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ continue to lead and guide us through a living prophet just as they have done from the beginning of time. I do not believe that we know everything and therefore do not require any further guidance. I know that Joseph Smith was a true Prophet that restored Christ’s original Church to its fullness. I know that Thomas S. Monson (to whom I gave a link to earlier) is now God’s chosen Prophet to lead the Church. I know that Jesus Christ lives and leads his Church on earth today and that church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

      Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree :)

      Thanks for sharing your perspective!

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 9, 2012 at 8:35pm

      Now we’re getting some where…

      I believe that each man makes his own choices, that God the Father guides us through His Word and the Holy Spirit corporately ( the “church”) and as individuals. Jesus is interceding on behalf of the saints whom is anyone that accepts the free gift of grace and puts there faith in Him and His finished work on the cross. I know that Joseph Smith ( no offence) was not a true prophet and the reason for this statement is found in Deuteronomy 18: 20 -22 where it say’s ( my words) ,,,if you make a mistake .. just one… you’re fired dude. Joseph Smith prophesied in the Doctrine and Covenants 84:1-5 that New Jerusalem would be built in Missouri within his generation … didn’t happen, and this is only one false prophesy. I know that Jesus is the head of the body (His church) as scripture say’s and that anyone, anyplace, anytime, is welcomed to be part of the Kingdom where Christ reigns as King of kings and Lord of lords, and no place, no not one place in scripture does it say one has to belong to the church of the Latter Day Saints for entrance to be gained!

      Everything I have said is backed up by God’s only Word … the bible
      I do not speak to you as an enemy, and hope the best for you …

      Report Post »  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 12:41am

      I couldn’t have put it better myself P8riot.

      4truth: “Everything I have said is backed up by [you left out “my interpretation of”] God’s only Word… the Bible” (Emphasis added). This conversation is, in and of its self, evidence for the need of modern apostles and prophets to guide and direct us in wisdom’s paths.

      In my opinion, accepting living prophets from God is a vital part of true Christianity. The presence of living prophets is a sign of God’s work underway, rather than a sign of evil. It is the absence of apostles and prophets, and continuing revelation itself, that is cause for concern among the mainstream Christian churches, as good and noble as many of them may be. Without continued revelation through anointed servants, these churches are like ships without a rudder, depending on human logic and debates among scholars to settle issues and provide guidance. No wonder there is such a huge range of ideas among Christian churches on moral and theological issues. Something is missing: guidance through God’s chosen apostles and prophets. But that something has been restored, and the Book of Mormon provides the solid evidence to back the claim.

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 4:15am

      4truth what anti-Mormon website did you pull that poppycock off of… let us take a look at a quite simple and clear explanation of the D&C 84 prophecy. The following has been provided by FAIRmormon.org.

      “The main problem critics have in interpreting D&C 84 is timing. They cannot understand that when the scriptures use words such as “this generation,“ ”a little season,“ ”nigh,“ ”soon to come,“ ”quickly,“ and ”in due time,” it can mean several years, or even centuries. They have no problem with accepting a long time when the Bible makes these statements, but they refuse to interpret Joseph Smith with the same standard. To criticize such terminology is to claim the Bible false. The four hundred years of Israel’s Egyptian captivity was a “little season” to the Lord. All the scriptural terms of time (nigh, shortly come to pass, at the doors, about to be, soon to be, in due time, not many days, a little season, near, close at hand, time will come, not many years, and generation) are not specific in numbers of years. Most of them are conditional. To say that “next generation” as used in the Bible can mean thousands of years, and turn around and say these very same words mean only a hundred years when used in the Doctrine and Covenants is hypocritical…”

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 4:17am

      Cont…

      “Scripture comes from one source, God. His prophets write as they are inspired by the Holy Ghost. The Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Bible use the same terms, with the same meaning, because they come from the same source. You cannot interpret one in one way, and another in a different way. When the Lord wants something accomplished, it will be done, in the Lords time….

      It should be noted that D&C 84 does not say the “people now living,“ it says ”this generation.“ The word ”generation” has different meanings. According to scripture, the word “generation” can have reference to a time frame, a people, or even a dispensation. Without specific wording which would indicate exactly what the word “generation” means, it is dishonest to accuse one (Joseph Smith) of false prophecy, while accepting another (Jesus Christ) when both use it in a general form. “

      http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Alleged_false_prophecies/Independence_temple_to_be_built_%22in_this_generation%22

      Report Post » Lux  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 7:58pm

      Yo Lux:

      You guys love to throw out the that’s “MY INTREPRETATION” of them, because that gives you an excuse in you’re mind to not adhere to them, and that is a tactic of satan that goes all the way back to Genesis —–> “did God really say” and you buy right into it… I simply let scripture (God’s Word), tell me what is. I have 0 interest in my opinion of it ( I do not claim 100% understanding of it all), but the issues dicussed here are elementary and not ones of great depth.
      The site is not anti- mormon , it is anti-lies…..l repeat myself … believe what you will …

      I am still waiting for ONE of you to disprove Ephesians 2 by using scripture … how about posting that!

      If I say the sky is blue … is that my interpretation of it ? Don’t be foolish ….and the fact that you don’t see the blue sky is concerning …

      Report Post »  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 11, 2012 at 5:21am

      @4Truth

      I’m really trying to understand how you come to your conclusions here… Happy and P8riot both did a wonderful job explaining this to you. By claiming it is “finished” are you trying to say that there will be no true prophets after Christ? Is that what you’re trying to get at? If that is the case the Bible contradicts your interpretation, bearing record that there were true prophets in the church after Christ’s Ascension (Acts 13:1, 15:32, 1 Corinthians 12:28). These prophets in the New Testament not only taught and preached, but they also received new revelation and prophesied (Ephesians 3:1-6, Acts 11:27-30, 21:10-11).

      In fact, apostles and prophets formed the very foundation of the church, of which Jesus Christ Himself is the chief cornerstone (Ephesians 2:19-21). And since these apostles and prophets had a testimony of Jesus, the “spirit of prophecy” was present in the very leadership of the church (Revelation 19:10). This also means that the apostles themselves were prophets as well, who received and brought forth further revelation and prophecy after Christ (e.g. the Book of Revelation).

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 11, 2012 at 5:23am

      Cont…

      Even in the latter days, the Bible foretells that God will pour out His spirit, and our sons and daughters will prophesy (Joel 2:28). In addition, the Bible reveals that in the last days there will be two witnesses who will prophesy 1,260 days. These prophets will also have power to devour their enemies with fire, to shut heaven that it does not rain, to turn water to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues as often as they will. After they prophesy, they will be killed and lie in a street in Jerusalem for three and a half days. Then God will raise them from the dead, and they will ascend up to heaven in a cloud (Revelation 11:1-12). As the Lord lives, there will be true prophets in the latter days like those in the Old Testament. Therefore, those individuals who claim there will be no Old Testament-style or -type prophets in the latter days, “do err, not knowing the scriptures.”

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 11, 2012 at 5:29am

      Cont…

      In conclusion, when God spoke unto us by His Son, He clearly stated that He would send us prophets (Matthew 23:34, Luke 11:49). He did so in the New Testament after Christ’s Ascension (Acts 13:1, 15:32, Ephesians 3:5), and He will continue to do so in these latter days (Joel 2:28, Revelation 11:1-12).

      “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” (Amos 3:7)

      Report Post » Lux  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 11, 2012 at 7:49am

      Lux:

      Are you reading my posts ?…cause you’re reply causes me to wonder.
      I am working 15 hr. days today and tomorrow and will not have much if any time to respond. I will get back with you as I have a number of things to say concerning you’re last post.

      Futher I believe that I have already addressed what you state, and you clearly have mis-applied scripture.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 14, 2012 at 8:27am

      Yo Lux:
      Said I’d get back to you … Scripture does not condradict what I have stated and I do not condradict it.
      I have been speaking simply/clearly on Ephesians 2:19-22 from the start.
      Jesus = cheif cornerstone … why the chief cornerstone? There are four corners, the chief is the boss, the leader. The rest of the foundation is the prophets – OT, and apostiles.
      This mind picture of the foundation being built is intentional by God so we simply/clearly understand it, and to show us anything different is not truth.
      YOU DO NOT MOVE THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE AND THE REST OF THE FOUNDATION after the building has begun to be buitt on top of it ( God’s people are the living stones being laid on the foundation). God IS building a kingdom, this kingdom is souls/spirits ………. people! This process of building is taking place as we speak.

      Iv’e explained to you that I have done this very thing in my business, If someone came to a foundation that I have laid and tried to “change” it, I would boot them off the property … you might want to consider the implications of that!

      I have also said that I DO NOT say/believe that the prophetic has ceased. Lets keep it simple ( this does not mean dumb), it mean clear and uncomplicated. You listed Ephesians 3:1-6 . This is good, lets stay in Eph.; cause they speak to one another very well.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 14, 2012 at 9:00am

      A mind picture … you are in the forest and the fog is so dence that you can only see 50′ in front of you.

      ARE YOU in you’re mind in the forest now?
      The fog begins to lift; as the fog lifts you can see further and further into the forest, as more or it is “revealed” to you. What you now see once the fog lifts is NOT NEW, it was ALWAYS there. No new trees, or bushes, bugs, birds or deer. What is …was, nothing has been changed. No adding or subtracting .. not one knat!
      (verses 4-6 in Ephesians 3 is clearly saying this)
      Scripture … “we see through a glass darkened”
      My personal belief based on scripture and the spirit, is we will be eternaly seeing more and more of God as He is infinite.

      I have asked LDS to disprove Ephesians 2:19-22 with scripture … Ephesians 3:1-6 verifies it, as will the rest of scripture. It is not my “interpretation” … it is what it simply and clearlysay’s.

      I have explained yet again … if you cannot SEE it I don’t know what to say except the spirit that guides you does not want you out of the fog, and I will say no more.

      My question to you, if you refuse what I have written is this …
      Who is Jesus ? … where does He come from / was he born/created?
      What is the relationship of Father, Son, Spirit ? (Keep it simple)

      Report Post »  
  • SERE22
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:27pm

    A stick that bends, breaks.

    Report Post » SERE22  
    • phillyatheist
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:53pm

      if only the real world were as simple as your “stick” analogy. Scientific discoveries have pushed the Churches of the world to change their stance on many issues. they’ve been “forced” to change, and i would recommend they continue to do so if they want to have a platform in the future.

      Report Post » phillyatheist  
    • ClunkerT
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:06pm

      The mainline denominations have taken Phillatheist advice and began opening their memberships to homosexuals, they then began to vote on that legitimacy of that issue and then advanced to ordaining homosexual pastors. They have been losing numbers ever since. Change is just another word for compromise one’s faith. Going down that road will eventually lead to an apostasy throughout the church.

      America recreates itself on Sundays, they either are participating or are spectators. Church is taking a back seat.

      Report Post »  
    • Git-R-Done
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:10pm

      Philly – They have NOT been forced to change. You just want things to be more convenient for you.

      Report Post »  
    • gtcogic
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:14pm

      Changing with the times is the very reason people abandon the church to begin with. If God or the church is seen as wishy-washy and even able to be debated based on the latest poll or scientific discovery, then why need God at all?

      The truth of the matter is, God is the same yesterday, today and forever. It is not for the church to compromise and be like the world, but the world needs to be more God like.

      Report Post »  
    • VastRightWingConspirator
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:16pm

      PHILLY
      Science isn’t the reason some (not many) Churches have changed their ways. Science has never been able to disprove God any more than it can prove evolution (that‘s why it’s still called the theory of evolution) or the big bang or dark matter or black holes even. All of these things are still just theories. Disagree all you want but proof requires actual proof, not just wanting something to be so. Our beliefs as Christians have been attacked at every level yet no one has ever come close to disproving any of it. In fact, many scientists that attempt to disprove Christ come to follow him. The problem with atheism is it requires destruction of religion. If atheism can stand alone why does it need to destroy religion? Just prove we’re wrong and the whole world will follow you.

      Report Post » VastRightWingConspirator  
    • VastRightWingConspirator
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:21pm

      PHILLY
      If science is causing Churches to change their ways why do the same % of scientist believe in God today as in 1918?

      http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n22_v91/ai_19332942/

      Report Post » VastRightWingConspirator  
    • phillyatheist
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:28pm

      wow, so many comments to respond to.

      i’ll start here – science has indeed forced the Church to change. only the most fundamental churches still believe in a 600 year old earth, and hence a literal interpretation of the Bible. and it‘s not just science that has forced the Church’s hand. civil rights have taken the Church from embracing slavery (which is ok per the Bible) and women as 2nd class citizens to today’s progressive stance on those issues.

      VASTRIGHTWING – it amazes me that people still don’t understand what a Scientific theory entails. it‘s so tiring to remind people that a Scientific theory isn’t a guess. gravity, cell theory, heliocentric theory (earth goes around the sun), and so many more are called theories. please learn basic, very basic Science.

      GITRDONE – how does the Church changing make anything more convenient for me. i’m not a church goer. it matters not to me, even in the least. keep your dogma out of Politics and you can believe that Jesus was a 3 headed serpent for all i care. worship however and whatever you want. it matters not to me.

      CLUNKERT – i’m not gay, but why is letting gays into the church such a bad thing? perhaps the Bible got that part wrong. like it did with slavery. is that not possible?

      Report Post » phillyatheist  
    • phillyatheist
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:31pm

      VAST – 2 more things.

      1. i am not claiming to have any proof that God does not exist. how could i?
      2. Atheism does not require the destruction of religion. it doesn’t require anything, actually. i hope religion hangs on, because i believe there is a lot of good there. it also gives comfort to many who need it. why would i want to destroy that? no Atheist i know wants that.

      Report Post » phillyatheist  
    • phillyatheist
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:44pm

      VAST – thanks for the link. it’s good to know that over 40% of the smartest people among us don’t believe in God, as opposed to roughly 95+% of the rest of the people in the world. once again, i’ll side with the Scientists on this one.

      Report Post » phillyatheist  
    • SERE22
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:00pm

      ATHIEST,

      Christ’s doctrines cannot be manipulated or changed to fit the ever fickle theories of man. Throughout the ages of mankind there have been scientific theories taken as irrefutable fact and believed by the masses as taught by scholars. Yet even the same theories are disproved and corrected, if not abolished. What we think we once knew was true, is changing all the time. Theories and “facts” (as they are taught to be) are here for a moment and fleeting in the large scope of time. Christ’s doctrines are the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Christ taught by simple means so that all could understand Him. The philosophies of men are not constant and never have been. But the doctrines of Christ remain ever the same, unless the interpretation thereof changes as with the tide.

      Adieu.

      Report Post » SERE22  
    • Git-R-Done
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:04pm

      Philly – How else will you get more people to become atheists if big government isn’t growing? And you have NO scientific evidence to prove that homosexuality is BORN that way. You atheists also believe in slavery by people being slaves to the government.

      Report Post »  
    • Git-R-Done
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:05pm

      Philly – So you’re admitting that atheism is based on nothing. Obviously you haven‘t studied history but nothingness doesn’t last in any society.

      Report Post »  
    • Cesium
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:08pm

      @PhillyAtheist.. forget it man, A lot of people on the Blaze have their minds made up about atheists. They don‘t understand it and they’re not willing to. Nor are they willing to understand the difference between “Theory” and “Hypothesis.” I call myself an atheist because I don‘t believe in god or think there is one but I don’t know so in actuality I am agnostic. There seems to be this religious atheist movement who are as dogmatic about the non-existence of god as the faithful are about the existence.

      Report Post »  
    • VastRightWingConspirator
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:12pm

      PHILLY
      As a Christian and a conservative I respect your decision to believe (or not believe as it is) whatever you choose. I intended no offense to you, but you did seem a little condescending (correct spelling I hope) which is why I chose to respond to you personally.

      Theory (which is where you were condescending) is just that…theory. Many are easily supported i.e. earth revolving around the sun. But, a theory is a group of hypothesis joined together to form some explanation of percieved reality with some form of empirical support. It cannot however be empirically tested. Athiests love to use theories to explain away Christ or any divine creation, they also sue govt. to make sure that the divine creation is not taught in schools or that God is not mentioned in public at all. That is attempting to destroy religion. You may not be guilty of it, but that would make you a rare example of an atheist.

      The largest part of my life was spent as a progressive athiest (agnostic perhaps) and I thought I knew so much. I found God, not when I was down and out, but when I realized just how little sense could actually be made from scientific arguments against Christ. Evolution, really? Why don’t we still evolve? humans are still the same in every way for thousands of years. If we are just another animal then explain my inner dialogue. Tell me why humans don’t follow the whole survival of the fittest rule. Why do we have a conscience yet there is no sign of one in any other crea

      Report Post » VastRightWingConspirator  
    • VastRightWingConspirator
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:16pm

      PHILLY
      you miss the point. If science is proving that God is not there why isn’t that number changing?
      60% of scientists believe themselves to be gods. They are narcissistic. And, I promise you that 95% is actually much lower. If people truly believed in God they would follow some form of religious teaching much more closely. Most people answer that question the way they think they are expected to.

      Report Post » VastRightWingConspirator  
    • phillyatheist
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:30pm

      VAST – science is not in the business of disproving God. some scientists believe, others do not. i‘m not sure why more scientists aren’t Atheists.

      people are evolving, btw. these things happen on very slow time tables, geologically at least. it’s akin to watching the hour hand on your watch. it moves, you just can’t see it do so. however, in looking at our anatomy we see plenty of remnants of man’s past. also, we are substantially taller than ancient people. our feet have changed shape because of modern footwear. we live longer, and not just because of medical advances. we have larger brains and smaller jaw muscles than our ancient relatives. we’ve also changed in our treatment of others. ancient man was pretty sadistic by today’s standards. we’ve evolved empathy, likely out of necessity.

      survival of the fittest is just one of many selection standards. it works in some parts of the animal kingdom, but not all. there are some places with little to no predation where sexual selection is dominant in driving change. just because the plains in Africa is an arms race doesn’t mean that man needs to evolve using the same techniques.

      Report Post » phillyatheist  
    • VastRightWingConspirator
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:34pm

      PHILLY
      Last response and I’ll leave you be, although I have enjoyed the discussion.
      I will be praying for you. When I accepted Christ I lost the closeness of certain friends and even certain family,I lost the chance to be with the woman I wanted, I gave up a chance at a better income and I left a lifestyle that the world considers to be living. I am, by the world’s standards, worse off now than before. But, I have discovered what it means to be fulfilled. I hope you find that someday, nothing can equal living in God’s love. I hope all of you on here discover that some day.

      Report Post » VastRightWingConspirator  
    • phillyatheist
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:49pm

      VAST – thanks. but not for the prayers :)

      Report Post » phillyatheist  
    • JJBlazeReader
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 7:07pm

      ..

      To you atheists posting on this story. Why? You have no say in what is Christian and what is not Christian.

      ..

      Report Post » JJBlazeReader  
    • kryptonite
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 3:53am

      Hey, PHILLYATHEIST, that was impressive. Great science when you can make evolution mean anything you want. Since evolutionists have never been able to explain HOW complex organisms evolved from simple organisms (the missing link is still missing), they now justify the void by defining evolution as biodiversity or adaptation.

      Your claim that we can’t see evolution happening because it takes eons for so-called microevolution to produce macroevolution is as credible as Obama’s assertion that his redistribution of wealth will fix the economy if we wait long enough, long being defined as indefinitely.

      And since your theory cannot prove origins, it is flawed at its very core. As far as I’m concerned, a so-called scientific process that originates from nowhere, takes me nowhere. Pfft!

      Report Post »  
    • iwantmymoney
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 9:45am

      @JJBLAZEREADER

      because the atheist posting are who this article is about…

      @VAST

      why does anyone have to disprove god? if it can’t be proven that he ever existed then it makes no sense to disprove it?

      @kryptonite

      creationism proves origins then?

      Report Post »  
    • JJBlazeReader
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 4:17pm

      ..

      @iwantmymoney – rather arrogant, you atheists always think the world revolves around you and you stick your nose into the Christian community’s business. This article does not mention atheists. It is to attract and keep young Christians in a local Church. It is not a ministry to atheists.

      Falling away from a church does not mean they become atheists. Many later return to Churches.

      I find it amazing how atheists perpetuate a lie about “nones” when the factual research proves that they are not atheists.

      Keep up the big lie as it only proves that you do not seek truth, you only want to mislead and lie.
      God Bless

      ..

      Report Post » JJBlazeReader  
    • kryptonite
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 7:01pm

      @iwantmymoney
      creationism proves origins then?
      ——–
      No. Only spiritual faith (as opposed to natural faith) can prove origins, but it operates in another dimension. I don’t need anybody to prove to me that God exists, because by faith my spirit can reach his Spirit.

      From a scientific viewpoint, intelligent design is a far stronger theory than evolution, because its paradigm extrapolates man’s undeniable and unique ability to reason and create, to a similar but more complex intelligent Source. Evolution, OTOH, denies an intelligent Source, so it is forced to resort to begging the question to explain the existence of complex organisms, and man’s uniqueness: “One species evolved into another, therefore these fossils which are millions of years old must be transitional forms of species A to species B.” And they call that science.

      Report Post »  
  • P8riot
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:23pm

    Personally, I choose my church through prayer – not rock bands and jumbo-trons.

    James 1:5

    If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

    Report Post » P8riot  
    • P8riot
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:34pm

      oops – typo – I “chose” my church :)

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • Bluntobj
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:34pm

      This. The religion I grew up in was very Apollonian; vocal hymns only, quiet, meditative, small congregations. I just can’t get into the Dionysian worship style. It seems very irreverent. When you get down to it though, worship style does not really matter when it comes to faith.

      Report Post »  
    • SERE22
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:41pm

      Don’t forget Matthew 7:7-8

      Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

      For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

      :-)

      Report Post » SERE22  
    • P8riot
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 8:23pm

      great points!

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • soybomb315
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 9:59pm

      the christian church is having the same problems as the republican party and for similar reasons….

      Churches and mainstream christianity has forgotten to teach the bible and has preferred to use sunshine sermons rather than teach the bible and bible lessons/stories. The republican party has forgotten to stick to the constitution and has preferred to use ‘hot button isssues’.

      Get back to square one – it’s what is right and true

      Report Post » soybomb315  
    • P8riot
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 12:14pm

      @SOYBOMB315 – I agree with you on all points.

      Report Post » P8riot  
  • earthman92
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:22pm

    The young are leaving the modern “church” because they instinctively know that so-called Christians have abandoned the Christ Jesus have have new gods: the knee grow and YKW.

    Report Post » earthman92  
    • cgnick
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 7:34pm

      People are realizing that religion is a fallacy. They realizing that they don’t need mythology to tell them how they should live their lives. Some people don’t want to live their lives fearing a god. Fear is so old school. The biggest fear has always been the unknown, and now we are really starting to learn about the world that we live in and that fear is turning into understanding. Knowledge truly is power. Some folks feel that need religion and spiritual guidance and that is OK too.

      Report Post »  
    • Git-R-Done
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:08pm

      Then what‘s the point of having any morals if you’re an atheist? Atheist based morality isn’t based on anything. None of the morals they claim to have are based on anything meaningful.

      What knowledge do atheists have? They don’t have any more knowledge than religious people do about the unknown.

      Report Post »  
    • cgnick
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 12:14am

      As an atheist, I have morals and teach my children moralality. I live by what you would call the “Golden Rule.” Not because of fear of god, but as a personal responsibility. I’m a firm believer in cause and effect and I like the idea of karma. It is very narrow minded to think that you have to have a god to have morals and values.

      Report Post »  
  • Blitz
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:22pm

    Too many churches, including mine at times, do not teach the word of God but rather a persons take on the word and they miss the mark. Add in the social BS and how would expect our Father to bless your church?

    Report Post »  
    • westtitus
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:09pm

      Then it is up to you to say something and make a change..God called you there for a reason, not to just complain but take action. I get tired of people complaining but do nothing to make it better. If you are doing something to make it better you are no better than they are. You have to know what is in someones heart before you can decide what they really believe or think and this is impossible. I am sure there are people just like you that think the same way so seek them out and do something!

      Report Post » westtitus  
  • Paul
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:21pm

    Perfect time to post this again…

    http://theseason.yolasite.com/

    Report Post » Paul  
    • Iswingright
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:54pm

      That’s nonsense…

      Report Post »  
    • VastRightWingConspirator
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:09pm

      It‘s an interesting read and you can’t prove the theories in it wrong. The problem, is it’s just another theory. The people who believe that the rapture will happen late in the antichrist’s rule and those who say there will be no rapture make as much sense scripturally, from my reading any way, as those who believe we will all be swept up and avoid persecution. Why would we be warned of extreme persecution if we were going to be swept up and carried to heaven before it started in earnest?

      Report Post » VastRightWingConspirator  
    • YAHSHUARULES
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:29pm

      Not exactly true. Incomplete understanding. In english you don’t see the word “rapture” . But look into the GREEK. Here is a teaching that will show you where your understanding falls short:
      http://www.khouse.org/articles/2002/444/

      Report Post » YAHSHUARULES  
    • YAHSHUARULES
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:53pm

      To VASTWINGCONSP why would we be warned? So that we who know the truth will get off our “blessed assurance” and do our part in fullfilling the Great Commission: ” And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” Mark 16v15-16 “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.” Matt 24v14.

      That is our main job as believers; to share the good news that there is redemption made available through the atoning Blood of Yahshua – Jesus Christ to those who will humble themselves and admit that in the presence of a Holy God our human best is filthy rags. We can not save ourselves.

      But how will they know if they are not told? We will all stand and give an account of what we did with our gift of salvation, look at the parable of the 10 talents. The master was harshest on the servant who took his one and buried it. Sort of like those who if you asked everyone in their lives no one would know they were a Christian. We are told “Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.” Matt 5v14-15.

      THIS is why we know what is comming! For the sake of those who don’t that we may tell them!

      Report Post » YAHSHUARULES  
    • Paul
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:56pm

      Look in the Greek ?

      “Anti” in the Greek means INSTEAD OF.

      Eyes to see and eres to hear? You will see, just remember this…

      Report Post » Paul  
    • Paul
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:58pm

      @ISWIN

      Compelling argument…

      Sad…

      Report Post » Paul  
    • Paul
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:02pm

      @VAS

      “Why would we be warned of extreme persecution if we were going to be swept up and carried to heave”

      Bingo ! Simple if you leave mans lies out of it.

      Report Post » Paul  
  • dmcote77
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:20pm

    They are leaving because most churches are not relevant. Young people don‘t want dead religion and I don’t blame them. They want something real. A place filled with the love and power of God will draw them. But you cannot give something you don’t have.

    Report Post »  
    • bennylava
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:04pm

      @dmcote77

      Couldn’t agree more. Keep the message, change the delivery, and put some genuine energy behind it. This idea is all sorts of brilliant. I wish Nashville had one!

      Report Post »  
    • VastRightWingConspirator
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:25pm

      You may be right. As long as the message is correct, I don’t think it matters where they get it. If this program can bring someone to Christ it has done God’s will. But, if they‘re candy coating it then it’s false.

      Report Post » VastRightWingConspirator  
    • contkmi
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:59pm

      Best responses of the responses here. God will come to where you are. He’ll be the small voice or the roaring wind.

      Report Post » contkmi  
    • sodacrackers2
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:58pm

      Don’t think church needs to be entertainment; we have plenty of that. Our relationship with God is not necessarily emotional, but is spiritual. We long for God. He is the missing piece.

      Report Post »  
  • NutterButter79
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:20pm

    The youth don’t want to go to church because of all of the hypocrisy found in the modern church. Most churches teach that all you have to do is believe in Jesus as your Savior and you get to heaven. Jesus said that there is more to it than that.

    The church preaches happy feel good messages because they are in it for the business. If they can’t pack the pews, they don’t make any money. Divorce is a sin in the eyes of God and to remarry is adultery. Yet preachers don’t mention that because many in their congregations fit that bill.

    It’s all about not offending people. I hope these young people are getting to know God on the purest level. It’s about a personal relationship with God. Preachers each have their own agenda.
    God bless the few preachers out there preaching the full Word of God.

    Report Post » NutterButter79  
    • SgtB
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:39pm

      Church is anywhere two or more people meet in prayer. And when you pray, you pray with God. So wherever you pray, it is a church. I believe in God, but I do not believe in church. Church has been and will continue to be a tool of profit, war, and governance. In fact, church is more of a meeting place and a place to gain social notoriety and business relations than anything else. If you go to a church like this, then good for you, but I’ll let you stand alone and be the one converting a church into a money changing table.

      Report Post » SgtB  
    • VoteRightDammit
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:56pm

      NutterButter79 Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:20pm “… Most churches teach that all you have to do is believe in Jesus as your Savior and you get to heaven. Jesus said that there is more to it than that. …
      It’s all about not offending people. I hope these young people are getting to know God on the purest level. It’s about a personal relationship with God.”
      ———————————

      I don’t know form whence you are getting your notions, but they are simply stated not right.

      We – each and every one of us – are saved BY GRACE, not because of any single thing we have done ourselves other than believe and confess. Being nice, loving others, not raping your father – these are all, of course, God’s directives for how we are to live our lives. But DOING these things is in no way related to salvation, since our ‘works’ are irrelevant.

      Read your Bible. It actually has pretty clear instructions. From God. You know – the designer.

      Report Post » VoteRightDammit  
  • palerider54
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:20pm

    This has all been prophesied in the Bible. There will be a great falling away from God in the final days before the rapture. Before the end of the Church age of Grace.

    Not only our nation but the whole world is about to see the end of Gods patience and the beginning of his wrath for 7 yrs.

    Except for concern for the lost friends and family members that have not accepted Jesus as their Savior, I welcome the Rapture, I look forward to seeing my Savior, Jesus Christ.

    Report Post »  
    • NewLife56
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:26pm

      @Not only our nation but the whole world is about to see the end of Gods patience and the beginning of his wrath

      I’m surprised he has had as much patience as he has shown, but I sure agree with your post

      Report Post » NewLife56  
    • DoseofReality
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:33pm

      Sure, a bunch of people are going to mysteriously disappear one day…this is the reaosn younger people arent interested. Do you know how silly that is?

      Report Post »  
    • phillyatheist
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:54pm

      his patience stems from his lack of existence. either that or he just doesn’t, and never did give a crap. your choice.

      Report Post » phillyatheist  
    • momrules
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:00pm

      Palerider……….I am in complete agreement. I too have concern over loved ones who have not accepted Jesus Christ but I am ready for the Rapture.

      Report Post »  
  • MiloArk
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:19pm

    Yeah, thanks for not putting up my comment again, Blaze. Why did I bother signing up?

    Report Post » MiloArk  
    • MittensKittens
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:26pm

      So much for free speech…on another note, with the decline of morals here in the USA, it’s no wonder why there is more divorce, perverse, and unethical action more and more these days.

      Report Post » MittensKittens  
  • Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:16pm

    A group of young adults who go from house (of worship) to house (of worship) to house (of worship) to sample what each had to offer… Didn’t we used to call those Swingers?

    Would Jesus throw a key party?

    Report Post » Lesbian Packing Hollow Points  
    • Locked
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:41pm

      “Would Jesus throw a key party?”

      More likely a wine tasting.

      Report Post »  
    • ClunkerT
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:15pm

      You can enjoy the Lord Jesus Christ as the Lamb of God and take in all of His grace and trust and believe that he died for your sins and mine and then rose again on the third day as a sign that the penalty was accepted and secure an eternal salvation for yourself. What a concept, saved from the penalty of your sins and justified unto eternal life all for just accepting His gift via faith. Do you know any other religious system that offers such a gift? Now of course we are free willed individuals and you can face Jesus Christ as the Lion of Judah as described in the Book of Revelation and sit back and wait for that eternal damning judgment. The playing field is the same for all, the goal posts are never moved thus you can trust the gift and the judgment to be true.

      Report Post »  
    • edmundburk
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 6:45pm

      once again, I think you hit the nail on the head.

      Report Post » edmundburk  
  • rfycom
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:15pm

    Pretty simple. You are born with faith in your heart and common sense in your head. God separated them for a reason. Right from wrong, good from evil, it is all there. You don’t need church or a bible. WIth what is being taught these days of shunning the poor, of hating the gay, and of feeding corporations, I fully understand.

    Don’t hate because I am right.

    Report Post »  
    • hauschild
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:24pm

      Progressives are all about removing the personal responsibility associated with being a productive citizen, one being helping they neighbor. So, in essence, you can say the progressives have won this battle, if you feel the church has “shunned the poor”, which coincidentally would mean the church is doing nothing wrong – merely following progressive dogma.

      Report Post »  
    • Git-R-Done
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:12pm

      Rfycom – But what you consider to be right and wrong is based on nothing.

      Report Post »  
    • VastRightWingConspirator
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:32pm

      I personally have never seen a Church shun poor, hate gays, or pump up corporations. You are reading too much HuffPo. When we tell gays that if they die with that sin on their hands they will go to hell isn’t hate, it’s love, we want them to have the chance to repent and join us in Heaven. And, don‘t tell me it’s genetic, if so where is that gene? As for the poor, even today with most people going all in on the world displayed by their TV and ignoring God which causes the decline in Church attendance more than any other single thing; Churches still give more and do more for the poor in this country than most other organizations combined. As for the whole corporate thing, I have no idea where you got that rubbish.

      Report Post » VastRightWingConspirator  
  • hauschild
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:13pm

    I stopped attending church when it become apparent that the leaders of the congregation were more concerned with entitlements than preaching the gospel. I’m sure I am not the only one who has noticed this, and you are witnessing the results.

    Look, nobody wants to take part in something they feel is a sham. Want more people in chruch? Get back to the basics. Better yet, get back to the Constitution. Achieving the latter helps the former in a huge way.

    So, the real question to ask is this: Have Americans lost faith in God, or have they been intentionally insulated from the Constitution, which has a negative impact on faith in God??? The answer can be found wherever one finds scoundrel progressives. They’re like termites eating at the structure of a wood-framed house.

    Report Post »  
    • janedough1
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:31pm

      You are so absolutely right that I could kiss you! The churches were perverted by the seminaries when the seminaries were perverted by Progressivism, but the Gospel of Jesus Christ has not changed. There are faithful churches out there. Those churches have often sacrificed much to stay faithful, and you can often find them meeting in schools because they no longer have a building. They are out there if you search. Paul said, “do not give up meeting together.” We need a faithful congregation, preaching the true Gospel. Alone, we cannot stand, but “wherever two or three are gathered together in my name, I am in the midst of them.” We NEED the church.

      Report Post »  
    • DoctorXIV
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:55pm

      Amen. We are commanded in Scriptures to leave if Christ Resurrected is not preached. It is ALL about
      Jesus, the relationship and love, and being unable to NOT share that love because it is more than you can contain! And “when 2 or more are gathered in My Name, I will be there with you!” Com’on! What is better than that? It is not like emotions you can conjure-up on your own. It IS different. And try to visualize this: Jesus, the Word, created the universe from nothing (John)…how vast is they universe, how BIG is God? Infinite. Can you imagine infinity? Can you imagine the power and infinite love of God, who became Man, to die a horrible death because God’s justice is infinite, but also His mercy? He offers us not just “fire insurance,” but a relationship with HIM! THAT’S the point! No one has to go to hell unless the choose to. Jesus made a way, not to avoid hell, but to gain access to Life now and forever with Infinite and Unconditional Love!

      If your church is just a wimpy social club, get out! (See Laodicean Church in Revelation) Find one that seeks Christ, His work and His Love above all.

      Please visit http://scriptures170085.info and watch the videos.

      Report Post »  
    • revron
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:19pm

      “If we want more people in church, we have to get back to the constitution?”
      The government of God is subservient to the government of man? The Bible takes a back seat to the Constitution? Next thing you’ll tell me is that English the official language of heaven. God said his kingdom will come and uproot and replace ALL kingdoms of men, even the good ones like the U.S.A..
      Patriotism is good but the biggest enemy of God’s best (having his Kingdom on the earth) is “good enough”.

      Report Post »  
  • DoseofReality
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:13pm

    Its not that difficult to see why numbers are dropping so much. First of all is education and information….realizing that things have changed in the last 2000 years. But I feel that main reason is the amount of anger and hatred that comes from many on the far religious right…the fire and brimstone crap isnt attractive, isnt going to draw young people in. When i was a child and went to church I heard about love, peace, understanding, forgiveness…..go to any post on this site or any other far right site and you will hear very, very little of that. Its your own faults that membership is declining….

    Report Post »  
    • Git-R-Done
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:14pm

      Except you lefties are not about peace, love, understanding, and forgiveness.

      You hate anybody who’s wealthy, white, conservative, etc.

      Report Post »  
    • FreedomMissMeYet
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:18pm

      Please excuse me DoseofReality, but has human nature changed even one bit in the last 2000 years? How about 4000 years? Not a chance bro.

      And Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount. How did that one strike you? Was ‘turning brother against brother, sons against fathers,’ about feeling good? It was about Love yes, which demanded facing personal sin and possibly even feeling bad in the process. Of course, we wouldn’t want anyone to feel bad today…they might confess, repent, and heal into a new relationship with God complete with life blessings as a side benefit.

      Could it be possible these kids are rightly sniffing out the deception and apostasy of feel-good/hot-tub Christianity running rampant today?

      Report Post »  
    • VastRightWingConspirator
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:42pm

      I don‘t believe you’ve been inside a Church in many years. You sound as though you’re projecting what you want us to say and believe so that you can justify your sad belief. I call it a sad belief because it will cause you eternal damnation and to me that is sad. I know of no Church that behaves in the way you claim, and any that does will find themselves eternally damned right beside you. It is about love, kindness, hope and sacrifice in God’s name. But, it’s also about discipleship. The fire and brimstone is what happens to people with your state of mind. We don‘t ignore any part of Christ’s word for to do so is a sin and helps no one. You seem to think that you can live by just having the good stuff, well, good luck with that. I pray you find the truth of Christ soon.

      Report Post » VastRightWingConspirator  
    • DoseofReality
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 8:06am

      Let me ask you this – do any of you people believe that non-christians can have happy, meaningful lives? Or do you truly believe that everyone else in the world that has ever lived or will ever lived livesd in the depths of despair becasue they dont have christ in their lives?

      Report Post »  
    • FreedomMissMeYet
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 9:29am

      hmmmm…what kind of meaning and purpose? Live for the world? The fame, fortune, finances, nature, security? Make heaven on earth? Live for another man/woman? For yourself? What happens when what one worships is taken away? A christian would say in this case God removed a false Gods to see if the man was truly his. God indicates it’s his job to judge the destination of individual souls not men. He indicates he (his son) is the only way and that Broad is the way that leads to destruction and ‘many’ there be that find it, narrow is the way that leads to salvation and few find it.

      Report Post »  
  • scarebear83
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:12pm

    If you‘re more worried about appealing to a younger audience than teaching what God’s word says then you’re not doing this for the Lord, you’re doing this for popularity reasons. The reason the truth doesn’t carry well with others is because Jesus said that it would be divisive. People need to stop trying to cover the truth and start teaching the truth.

    Matthew 10:34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

    God‘s Word is not a popular message we see this even in the religious world with all the different denominations trying to change God’s word to fit what they feel is right instead of teaching what it says.

    Report Post » scarebear83  
  • Tom K
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:11pm

    We are one generation behind Europe; their youth population abandoned attending church and most did not return. If there are no young people in your chruch, it can not grow. The secularists have “won” in European schools and are winning in America’s schools. Through God’s providence, America became the light of the World. We must return to the biblical principles that were essential in creating America or become a failed system, like Europe. America, turn from the evil one ( repent ) and pray to our Father in Heaven and He will hear our prayers and He will heal our land.

    Report Post »  
    • Git-R-Done
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:18pm

      Secular humanism never lasts anywhere and that’s why the radical Muslims are so easily taking over Europe. Secular humanism stands for nothing, so they’ll fall for anything.

      Report Post »  
  • SquidVetOhio
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:10pm

    Ridiculous. Quit changing the churches to “attract” groups of people. Jesus did not change his approach because of different audiences. He didn’t sing and dance to get the kids to pay attention. PREACH THE GOSPEL and then the congregation try and live it the best they can and be happy and content. That’s what attracts people. Godly christians who are joyful and helpful is what attracts people to want what they got. Quit acting like the world. Quit capitulating on doctrine. Who wants to follow a leader that capitulates and doesn’t stand for anything. Christians use to be willing to die for their faith. Now we don’t like to be made fun of. American christians that is. Go find a chinese christian and if he is alive, there is probably a good example of a faithful man that others would want to follow.

    Report Post » SquidVetOhio  
    • P8riot
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:31pm

      we don’t agree on everything… but you hit the nail on the head on this one!

      Report Post » P8riot  
  • ReddenBlack
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:10pm

    No, young people are abandoning the church because it’s a load of hors-isht. There is no point in listening to a bunch of dogmatic nonsense. There is no god, no heaven, no hell, and no afterlife. We are just tiny organisms on a rock in space.

    Thats it.

    Can someone please explain to me why that scares people so much? I mean, I get the idea of not agreeing with athiesm, but why does the lack of god scare people? Explain that to me

    Report Post » ReddenBlack  
    • SquidVetOhio
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:16pm

      Everyone knows better. They are convicted by their conscience. They know the universe does not make logical sense without a God. The order and complexity in life, science, and nature is not possibly explained by chance an random chance. Random by definition produces nothing but chaos and inorder. People know deep in thier hearts there must be something directing that order and measurable intelligence that exists everywhere. I suspect you do too.

      If I am wrong, I live a happy and fulfilled life and I die.

      If you are wrong, well you know………

      Report Post » SquidVetOhio  
    • hauschild
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:17pm

      I don’t agree.

      Until you can provide a believable reason as to why humans are so advanced compared with the next most intelligent being in line, then I must assume their is a higher power.

      Just show me the money, that’s all. It’s easy to call BS and say what you say, but that doesn’t answer the real question, does it? Of couse not.

      Report Post »  
    • MiloArk
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:18pm

      You know what’s scary? Thinking ‘what if atheists are the highest form of evolution?’ Talk about hopeless. Or scary is the people who believe everything stops after the five senses, or that we all got here by means of an explosion, (C’mon, toss a bomb in your room and it WON’T make your bed.) Scary is looking at all of the connections and building blocks laid through-out all of creation and calling it ‘intellectual’ that you believe it happened by accident. That’s scary. Dummy.

      Report Post » MiloArk  
    • scarebear83
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:20pm

      Reddenblack: “Can someone please explain to me why that scares people so much?”

      What happens if you’re wrong? Would you take a chance and live your life like there was no God just to find out after death there is and you are condemned for eternity? Or would you rather be prepared that way you don’t have to worry after death? It’s not the “lack of God” really that scares people it’s the “what if I’m wrong about the “lack of God” that scares people.

      Report Post » scarebear83  
    • barber2
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:21pm

      Guess because so many atheists are anarchists, nihilists , and deranged druggies….( have no trouble with an educated, considerate, well mannered atheist..just don’t seem to hear much from one like that )

      Report Post »  
    • LakeCountry
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:21pm

      The idea that there is no God isn’t what scares people. It is the idea that there IS a God and you don’t believe it. Our fear is for your sake. You have no idea where your beliefs are leading you.

      Report Post »  
    • HappyStretchedThin
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:23pm

      Completely disingenuous question of course, but I’ll bite for the sake of honest people who might be reading.
      You‘re the one that’s scared.
      You think people who have sincere beliefs in what you call myths are dangerous because they don’t think straight.
      Believers, on the other hand, find the idea that there‘s no higher power we’re RESPONSIBLE to as human beings so dangerous that it deserves guarding against. Purely logical given the history of people in power who have held that exact idea such as Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao just to mention a few.
      Get it now?

      Report Post » HappyStretchedThin  
    • palerider54
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:24pm

      I can’t explain it to you, but God will.

      You WILL believe.

      You WILL bend your knees and your tongue WILL confess Jesus Lord of lords and King of kings.
      I just hope for your sake these actions occur on this side of the grave.

      Report Post »  
    • let us prey
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:30pm

      Red
      The removal of god from everything in this country has been nothing but bad.

      Report Post » let us prey  
    • janedough1
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:35pm

      Explain how every single living cell contains a nucleus of written instructions, written in an alphabet composed of combinations of three pairs of chemicals, complex enough to give instructions for the construction of a human being or an aardvark, if there is no writer?

      Report Post »  
    • DoctorXIV
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:41pm

      If you really believe as Sartre, Camus, Nietschze, et al do, that there is nothing more than the material universe, why do you care what people believe? Everything, your words, their words, your actions, everyone’s actions are meaningless, pointless. Why are you wasting time blogging? If you are right, your life, my life, everyones life means nothing. Eat, drink and be merry, stoned or whatever, for tomorrow you die. Case closed.

      “why does the lack of god scare people?” It doesn’t scare us. This is a very short answer, but let me try to explain. Is there someone you love? Anyone? If you knew that you could make that person’s life “heaven on earth” for the rest of their life, would you tell them? Would you take them if it required moving to another place? Even if you’re right about existential materialism?

      OR, if you knew they were going to vacation in the Middle East and you found out their airplane was going to be attacked upon landing and everyone on that flight was going to be captured and tortured for years, or maybe sold as a sex slave? Would you prevent them from going? Would you do ANYTHING in your power to prevent it?!

      For those of us who have met Jesus (no, he didn‘t appear in my living room and I don’t do drugs), the love we feel for YOU, yes YOU, is what makes this terrifying to us. It’s not just “hell,” it’s knowing the Love of God. It’s real. and it’s powerful, an we want everyone to know this love.Visit
      http://scriptures170085.info an

      Report Post »  
    • MrGeek
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:41pm

      ScareBear, so you are invoking Pascal’s wager? Which basically states: I best believe in God just in case he does exist so I don’t burn in hell. So you don’t really believe, you just want to hedge your bets, just in case. That’s being an intellectual coward. Besides, if we are the most intelligent life form on this planet, then we should be able to recognize that we might still be the retards of the universe compared to other intelligent life forms.

      Report Post »  
    • HappyStretchedThin
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:54pm

      @MrGeek,
      Congratulations on identifying Pascal’s wager.
      Too bad you understand none of it.
      Pascal showed that even if YOU were the intellectual coward, it’s in your best interest to believe.
      He himself demonstrated many other reasons he personally believed.
      Very little was cowardly about Pascal, trust this PhD in French lit.

      Report Post » HappyStretchedThin  
    • sparkspeaks
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:07pm

      If you are right….YOU lose nothing. ….. If I am right…. YOU lose everything. That’s a big gamble.

      Report Post » sparkspeaks  
    • DoctorXIV
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:09pm

      You might like this, too. http://youtu.be/K48-Li7lIfA It’s a far better explanation than I can give!
      Uploaded by PipelineGeneration on Apr 9, 2011

      From the G to the L, this video explains the gospel in four minutes. Amazing word’s put in a simple and easy to understand format.
      Email, Post and tell the World.

      We do not take any credit for making this video only posting it on this YouTube channel.

      Dare 2 share ministries has produced this video (http://gospeljourney.com/).
      Email information@dare2share.org for more details.

      Report Post »  
    • sparkspeaks
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:12pm

      If you are right…there is no God, then you lose nothing. If I am right….there is a God, you lose everything. Big Gambler. ….. Nothing ventured….. nothing gained.

      Report Post » sparkspeaks  
    • Git-R-Done
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:16pm

      Reddenblack – The idea of no afterlife is depressing. Being an atheist is just miserable and with no purpose in life.

      Report Post »  
    • Pontiac
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 8:07pm

      [If you are right….YOU lose nothing. ….. If I am right…. YOU lose everything. That’s a big gamble.]

      Then you better start researching and practicing every religion. Because the odds aren’t in your favor if you pick just one.

      Report Post » Pontiac  
    • Git-R-Done
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:09pm

      Pontiac – Then why doesn’t you just be nihilistic. Stand for something or you’ll fall for anything.

      Report Post »  
    • scarebear83
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 11:20pm

      @MrGeek- Sorry I didn’t respond until now (family medical issues) but no, I don‘t believe in God simply because it’s a safety net. I believe because there is a God and He is alive. My statement was simply to rouse a curious question out of reddenblack. I wouldn’t want to be a person to disbelieve just to find out I was wrong and I was just simply stating what if he is wrong that there is no God?

      Report Post » scarebear83  
    • Pontiac
      Posted on May 12, 2012 at 2:43pm

      @Git-R-Done
      I know it irks you to no end but you don’t get to pick and choose what I am and what I believe.

      Report Post » Pontiac  
  • barber2
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:06pm

    Hope someone can reach these young people before they become the brainwashed subjects of the Marxist political cult which the Obama/ Occupiers are attracting. Big Brother is their “god ” with a very immoral set of commandments.

    Report Post »  
  • FromSeaToSea
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:06pm

    What would you expect from 50+ years of dysfunctional families and a society bankrupt of morals expecially our leaders. To top it off the church has prosituted to the gov. with 501C3 tax exempt status creating a headship in the church of gov. and Jesus.

    Report Post »  
  • Too_Far_Gone
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:05pm

    This is all “Written.”

    Report Post » Too_Far_Gone  
  • cuinsong
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:03pm

    I was a church member in good standing until I needed help and the church did not lift a finger to help!
    We lost our home and belongings in a wild fire. The church was aware but did nothing so we quit going.
    I have realized that most churches are only in it for the money.
    If you lose your ability to contribute then you are not worth their time.
    The only people they help are themselves.
    The young people of today may have found this out for them selves!

    Report Post » cuinsong  
    • Bluntobj
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:49pm

      When doctrinaire squabbles become the primary focus, the main virtues that were preached by Jesus fall by the wayside. Things like charity, compassion, forgiveness, humility, etc. are ground down by false Christians who seek to control others and to maximize their image as “good christians” in their victims minds and hearts.

      Report Post »  
    • VoteRightDammit
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:16pm

      “Bluntobj: Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:49pm When doctrinaire squabbles become the primary focus, the main virtues that were preached by Jesus fall by the wayside. Things like charity, compassion, forgiveness, humility, etc. are ground down by false Christians who seek to control others and to maximize their image as “good christians” in their victims minds and hearts.”
      ————————————–

      BluntForce: your moral relativism is far, far from Jesus. Here is a novel thought: maybe the Apoltles knew far more than you or I about Jesus and His teachings. And maybe The Bible IS the Word of God.

      Given that possibility, what is laid down in black and white in The Bible might be worth paying attention to. Note, for example, Paul’s letters to …. well, Timothy for example (though many others are similar). The entire gist of these parts of Scripture are bout FALSE TEACHINGS and the absolute necessity to NOT conform The Word to whatever is the current en vogue social fetish.

      I know, I know ~~~ you don’t WANT all those rules and regulations; you WANT to be free.

      Your ‘free’, unfortunately, is the harshest form of slavery.

      Report Post » VoteRightDammit  
    • MCDAVE
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:22pm

      @CUINSONG sad that this happened to you…what type of church was this?…Good times ,bad times….donations should not matter as a requirement to be a member of a church..its really about worship of god…

      Report Post »  
    • Git-R-Done
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:50pm

      Cuinsong – I’m so sorry to hear of what happened to you. Those people should have helped you out b/c that’s one of the tenets of Christianity.

      Report Post »  
    • Bluntobj
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:57pm

      @VoteRightDammit:

      Um, how does the statement “When doctrinaire squabbles become the primary focus, the main virtues that were preached by Jesus fall by the wayside” equal Moral Relativism? I think this comment sank a little close to the bone for you. As someone who has seen the vengeful nature of doctrine and dogma oriented people I am standing on the rock when I say that a Law oriented approach is exactly what the Pharisees had, and they were not Jesus’ favorites in the NT.

      The gospels of Jesus were hijacked by Paul who slathered law right back over what Jesus had preached. You can see this evident in the mechanistic approach to religion that the Catholic church has, as does the Orthodox church and most of Judaism.

      Obeying the law is important, as is faith. Going off balance toward law leads to domineering and vengeful spirits, and going off balance toward faith only leaves a hollow core of “Moral Relativism” that you mention.

      It is imperative that a Christian must remain in balance, obeying the laws of god in his mind, and maintaining a spirit similar to Jesus in his heart. The control mechanism for doing so is to be involved with helping people, being humble, and exercising constant judgment against those who would control, domineer, and denounce others to hide their own flaws.

      It’s very much like the stand conservatives must take against liberals and the RINOs that run the Republican Party.

      Report Post »  
    • Bluntobj
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:59pm

      @VoteRightDammit: Oh, and it’s Bluntobj, not BluntForce.

      Report Post »  
    • VoteRightDammit
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 6:35pm

      BluntForce: “The gospels of Jesus were hijacked by Paul who slathered law right back over what Jesus had preached.”
      ————————-

      Just for kicks, study The Bible. It may just clear up a few of your misconceptions.

      I’d suggest starting with john, but since we are on Paul maybe start with his letters to timothy (they are short, so that might also be attractive to you). Paul‘s primary message to his protege was to REJECT the jewdizers’ teachings that law was important. Paul cautioned Timothy to reject such blatherings … since GRACE, not and individuals’ works, is 100% of how we are saved. As Paul put it, following the law is like a caged animal, having been freed from his cage, going back in. Stoopit thing to do.

      So – your claim Paul was a law promoter is not simply 100% false – it’s entirely backwards.

      Report Post » VoteRightDammit  
  • kaydeebeau
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:03pm

    We, humans have a fatal tendency to try to adjust the truth to fit our desires rather than adjusting our desires to fit the truth

    Report Post » kaydeebeau  
  • Bro. Chuck
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:03pm

    Sad….
    just the premise and tone of the headline….
    makes it sound like a restaurant or entertainment place….

    I didn’t know it was like having to “drum up the business”….

    and you know, this is where the “religion” gets corrupted,
    because the focus shifts from the Divine…..
    to in essence “lying and watering down” the message to fill the pews.

    I’ve thought on this before….
    are there any churches in heaven?
    or do we just look up and Bless God?

    Church isn’t supposed to be a business….
    and Salvation cannot be given away with a membership…..

    I Pray that those pastors, priests, and clergy get the point pretty quick….

    Be Bless’d in Yeshua!

    Bro. Chuck

    Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:30pm

      Yo Bro,
      I work with teenagers … they are pounded by the minute with the “world”
      Where is the church, where has the church been ?… are we reaching out into our “logos” our circle of influence, our neighborhoods with the love of Christ and the wisdom of the spirit? The truth of scripture and the knowledge we posess today should be like glue . Do we fill our churches with prayer for the lost , do we concern ourselves with the plight of others?

      Many believe that their gonna be outta here at the “rapture” … so why worry.

      No … I believe that if we are brutally honest with ourselves we just might come to the conclusion that we haven’t seen spreading much seed around.

      Report Post »  
    • revron
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:14pm

      4TRUTH2ALL,
      dyk? God is going to come and rescue the church before any tribulation comes because “Christians don’t have to suffer.” Then we will turn the responsibility of getting the Gospel of the Kingdom to all the world over to 144,000 Jjews who can finish the job a Holy Spirit empowered church couldn’t do.
      In military life, they would accuse the church of dereliction of duty.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 7:26pm

      Yo Revron:
      My apologies, don’t know what “dyk” means – taking a guess “do you kid” … if so not at the least.

      I challange you to show me the scripture ( already have a really, really good idea),and I will prove you wrong with scripture and that comes with a guarantee ,of course that depends on you’re humility.

      I give you a head start … do you know of the prayer of Jesus in John 17? my suggestion would be to read it and pay close attention to verses15-19 … why would He pray that?

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 7:42pm

      Yo Revron:
      “Pray for the workers cause the harvest is great and THE WORKERS ARE FEW”

      There ain’t no leaving it to someone else !!! dyk?

      Also … you telling me that a “Holy Spirit empowered” anything comes up short? ayk?

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 7:45pm

      Yo Revron:

      Another one: since when does God promise a trouble free life? And again, show me the money

      Report Post »  
    • revron
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 9:05pm

      4TRUTH2ALL
      DYK means “did you know?” You missed the tone in my note (sarcasm).
      We are are on the same page my brother.
      Even if we weren’t, you are still my brother.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 9:35pm

      Yo Revron:

      My apologies for not picking up on the sarcasm, but many believe the rapture stuff and I happen to believe that in part the great falling away is due to this bad teaching. Many will not be ready for what is comming. So in all due respect I believe it would be a dereliction of my duties to not point this bad teaching out.(which you were not) I don’t want others to get caught with their gun in their holster.

      Report Post »  
    • revron
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:05pm

      4TRUTH2ALL
      Matt. 24:10 Jesus said “many would be offended at him and fall away. How is that possible? Because of the false Jesus many preach will fail them in the last days.
      People who only preach that God wants to bless and prosper them, or that we can receive Jesus and no repentance is required. When the financial crisis comes to our shores and suffering visits us, these softies who thought that being a Christian entitled them to a life of ease will cry out: the church lied to me! My feel-good Pastor deceived me! Even God lied to me! and because persecution is the lot of all who want to live holy lives instead, they will take offense at Jesus and leave.
      It is a replay of why the disciples abandoned Jesus. He said they would become offended at him and desert him. They thought the Messiah would unite Israel, defeat Rome and they would get promoted to rulers with Christ in Jerusalem.
      Instead of defeating the hoard of Roman soldiers who came after Him, even though He displayed the power to overcome, Jesus submitted to them. More importantly than not defending himself, the disciples thought Jesus didn’t fight for or defend THEIR cause, as they thought the Messiah ought. They became offended in fulfillment of Matt. 26:31 and deserted Jesus.
      There is nothing new under the sun. What was true before will be true again.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:49pm

      Yo Revron:

      This is so true … it is good to speak with someone that sees.
      I believe I am safe here … I asked God one time why this popular teaching and belief in the church, and I very clearly heard Him say that the great test of Job is comming. I also had a dream around 20 years ago that I could still give you the details on this very day. It was about America and very disturbing, and I got the sence that there was no way of stopping it, that it was something that will be. To this day I am not sure why God gave me this dream (I dream often). I am greatly concerned about the days ahead. I am not fearful or worried, just want to be a voice in the darkness I guess … peace

      Report Post »  
    • revron
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:04pm

      4TRUTH
      You are safe. I have had 3 dreams of a coming financial crisis. The reason God gives us His warnings is to warn others and to get our houses in order. Glen Beck has this one right.
      As for the rapture of the church; expect the unexpected. When Jesus came the 1st time, how many got it right? 3, and they didn’t go to church. Yet we are so sure about our pet pre-trib doctrines. Some base it on scripture, most because its convenient for me to believe.
      be blessed.

      Report Post »  
  • lukerw
    Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:01pm

    Once the shooting starts… Everyone prays to GOD!

    Report Post » lukerw  
    • Pontiac
      Posted on May 7, 2012 at 8:01pm

      Yeah, everyone that has time to get shot.

      It’s fun watching theist slide towards extinction. Their post become more irate and illogical.

      Report Post » Pontiac  
    • Watchingtheweasels
      Posted on May 8, 2012 at 7:29am

      Theism isn’t in any way sliding to extinction. Christianity is alive and well in places like South Korea and India. It’s the American church that is walking the path of the European church to extinction. As far as theism, the Christianity that once came from Europe to America and has since died there is being replaced by Islam.

      As for why, well, children are under the influence of the church’s teaching for maybe 3 hours a week. They are under the influence of a godless public school 40 hours a week.

      http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/comp/cw35propaganda.htm

      Report Post »  
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