I too hate that arrogant, self-centered Satan!
The reference in Isaiah 14, is clearly a reference to the king of Babylon.
Isaiah 14:4 says, "take up this proverb against the king of Babylon". This is the individual being referenced here.
It is addressed to the king of Babylon but also, by extension, to Satan.
That extension appears to be completely of human origin. I don't find that substantiated in the scripture.
Come on whoever did the down thumb, I understand you disagree but tell me why.
ultralight The fall of Satan is described in Isaiah 14:12-14: is more accurately translated How are you fallen from heaven, O day star, son of the morning! Verse 12 summarizes his fall. Isa. 14:12 The Septuagint renders it, [Heoosforos], and the Vulgate, `Lucifer, the morning star’ (from Barnes’ Notes).
Lucifer is NOT the correct translation of the name. Though it is accepted today this is not a name drawn from the Bible for Satan before his fall or after. “He is called the Day star- Hebrew Ben Shaachar- Son of the morning- Isa. 14:12 Hebrew heeyleel which means the bright and shining one, one who spreads light. This Hebrew noun is found nowhere else” (Barnes' Notes).
Thank you for sharing your views with me.
I come from the perspective that Isaiah 14 doesn't refer to Satan at all. It refers to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. The Lord did use Nebuchadnezzar to accomplish his purpose but he, in pride, exalted himself even above the counsel of God.
The term Lucifer was being used mockingly against Nebuchadnezzar. It refers to his great tumble from a self-assured monarch to a lunatic eating grass in the field.
The term most definitely does not refer to Satan who "never abode in the truth" and could never be characterized as The Daystar or Son of the morning.
And God sent Lucifer (Satan) from Heaven for his desire to be his Creator's equal and to gather as many idiots as he can to worship him by disobeying the Creator's laws and to keep him company in his home of Hell. In other words, Lucifer (the Light) no longer has the light but the dark.
In the first place, it can be demonstrated that Lucifer is not Satan.
I would also like for you to show me in the Scripture where it says, or implies, that Satan "desired to be his creators equal"?
 June 19, 2015 at 9:01am
Forgiveness is not appropriate for the unrepentant.
We can humbly accept the wrong committed against us by the criminal by letting go of anger and the taking of revenge, but to forgive them, in reality pardoning their sin, is not appropriate.
There is a price to pay for sin. And the unrepentant deserves everything they get.
Theologically I think it is only the deity that can pardon the actual sin. Forgiveness even without repentance on a personal level is different than the absolution of wrong. It's an expression of compassion even for one's enemy. I have to admit they are bigger than I could have been.
Do we have compassion for the unrepentant Hitler? Is he to be forgiven?
Satan is not repentant, should we have compassion and forgiveness for him?
Mr. Roof is not repentant........
Objectively in my own opinion? No.. draw and quarter them.
Theologically if you're a Christian then yes you are supposed to forgive them. This is not to say that you don't abscond or annul justice. There is a precarious balance between justice and the advocating of mercy for the wicked in the Christian faith. To demand that mercy be granted for the guilty in all cases is a paradox and mockery of justice. To forgive someone in your psyche for a wrong they have committed you is different than an external absolution of all current, past and future wrongs. Also, I don't think you can forgive someone something a wrong they committed towards someone else.
a poster with many identities is bad for a forum
 June 16, 2015 at 10:41am
John 17:3, when we read it carefully and meditate on what it actually says, can be life changing in it’s importance.
 June 16, 2015 at 10:18am
Goliath was indeed killed by David, that is a fact.
June 16, 2015 at 10:13am
Since Jesus is the “son of his father”, why do some say Jesus is the father?
It is my understanding that Jesus (the son) and the Word (the holy bible) have always existed. These two were created before the world began.
And I know that Jesus teaches: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. The only way to the Father, is through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father too."
John 17:3, when we read it carefully and meditate on what it actually says, can be life changing in it’s importance.
Because Catholics are confused on the issue..........
As to your question, it is hard to answer for someone else. I will try to give some possible explanations.
It may simply be a case of attention to detail.
And it could also be an extension of Jesus' words when he said, "I and my father are one"
I personally believe that God uses his Word and his Holy Spirit to deal with mankind. It is difficult to separate and individualize these two aspects of the Father but God himself displays them to us as two separate but interwoven entities.
These two witnesses make their appearance and are very active in the creation scene.
I also believe these are the same two witnesses which appear in the 11th chapter of Revelations.
WorkPlayPayTaxes, because Jesus, the Son of God and the Word have always existed, they were not created.
ultraright, because the Word is Jesus, the Son of God, He cannot be one of the witnesses mention in The Revelation. Jesus has already died once for our sin, and He cannot and will not die again. The Holy Spirit, also God, also cannot die. Ergo, those witnesses must be others.
Because the Bible teaches that "it is appointed unto man once to die," and because Enoch and Elijah were caught up to Heaven without experiencing death, I believe that they are those two witnesses.
Blacktooth brought out John 17:3:
John 17:3 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
This does say that the true God sent his son, Jesus Christ to earth. John 3:16 indicates the same thought.
So, Jesus cannot be the father, the one who sent him.
Jesus is the sent one - not the sender.
In simplified form
It's the Trinity. God=Jesus=Holy Spirit. God made everything, God sent his son in human form Jesus. And when we accept Jesus as our Savior we are filled with the Holy Spirit.
They are all the same.
Jesus is also called the Son of man
John 1 explains this as well:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."
Because it's all a jumbled myth that needs to be read in context or literally depending on how you want it to come out.
Word of God? No. Word of man saying what the word of God is.
Interesting thinking. Jesus however, testified that Elijah has already made a second appearance in the form of John the Baptist.
Brigott, I just believe there are other ways to "slay" a witness. When Jesus died on the cross they did not kill the Word,,, it lived on. They rejected the Word making it null and void to them.
That Word, though reviled and made to prophesy in sack cloth, still remains unmoved.
For a long period of time now the Word and the Spirit has largely been rejected. Even Christiandom has given little more than lipservice to these two witnesses. The "Christian" world has kept them around like intriguing relics of some bygone age. Oh, we must not bury them, they say, just let us render them impotent and foolish to look upon! i.e. today's pope
In the final judgment, these two great witnesses will stand as eternal reminders of what God hath wrought in us or the sad truth of what we could have been.
God is a title. YHVH is His Holy Name fm the Hebrew Scriptures while Y'shua is His Name in the NT. God has always been. As a Christian, we see three distinct yet unified "personalities" at work in the Trinity, the totality of God as humans can perceive the infinite and Other.
Jesus comes as a human male to make God accessible to the finite. Jesus the man comes within time, although the Son has been since forever and before. The Spirit, Shekinah, marched with and protected the children of Israel as they left for the Promised Land. The Spirit has also been since forever and before.
YHVH is the aspect of the Trinity that most Christians call Abba/Father.
As man begets man, so God begets God -- Jesus -- God Incarnate, Man Divine.
It is the Holy Trinity: Father, Son Holy Ghost. God in Three Persons: Holy Trinity.
The Trinity Doctrine is not logical.
What is logical is how Jesus prayed to his Father (YHWH) in John chapter 17.
Study the New Testament and you will learn why !
torak, in Genesis, God said, "Let us make man in our image...." God used the plural, indicating the Trinity.
In the New Testament, we read, "In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made." Jesus is eternal God, and He was the member of the Trinity Who did the actual act of creating this universe and all that is therein.
No, Jesus is not the Father, yet He is God.
Bear with me please, I appeal to logic here. If Jesus himself said “the Father is greater than I am”, and the 3rd century Trinity doctrine says he is God the Father, then someone is lying!
I can do nothing but reject the Trinity in favor of Jesus’ own words when he describes his position to his Father. I will go with the Bible, and I have to reject the confusion of the Catholic Trinity.
Elena, I pretty much agree with your portrayal. However, I prefer to recognize that the way God created his Communication is the same way we create ours. We make our thoughts and will known through various means. His Word is completely his creation just as our words are formulated and issue uniquely from us.
God has chosen to present his will to us through his holy Communication! He has chosen to offer great help to men of corrupt spirits by the indwelling of his Undefiled Spirit!
When we review the history of God's interaction with man, we are forced to recognize that God used these two great entities to redeem, influence, and instruct man.
You seem a bit cynical and confused, perhaps angry at what seems to be a duplicitous nature of the scripture.
There were two men who had followed Jesus and begun to believe that he was the Messiah. Then,,, they watched him die. Their hope spiraled down into dejected confusion.
They walked away commiserating with each other as they went. Jesus stepped up beside them as they walked away, he, entering into the conversation, opened their understanding to the Scriptures. They rejoiced with new hope and purpose of life.
I think that all you really need is an encounter with the Son of God!
BLACKTOOTH -- Jesus said "I and the Father are one" along with many other statements of divinity. He was talking with a young man of that era and said to him, "Before Abraham was, I AM." Jews knew that God identified Himself to Moses as the I AM. Saying that Jesus is the Son of the Father is part of the trinitarian nature of God -- three personalities in one Being. Hard to understand? Join the crowd. God is not like you and me.
What you said makes perfect sense to me. Pretty solid explanation. Thank you : )
"The Father and I are one."
"I am the one God chose and sent into the world. 37 If I don’t do what my Father does, then don’t believe what I say. 38 But if I do what my Father does, you should believe in what I do. You might not believe in me, but you should believe in the things I do. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
But yet Bluebird, we DO have similarities with God. He has his spirit and his word,, so do humans, we have our spirit and our word. You see, he made us in his image.
torak, when Jesus said that the Father was greater than He, He was not saying that the Father is more God than He is.
He was making a statement that He had voluntarily subjugated His will to the will of the Father.
bluebird, the Jews understood the meaning of "I AM" so well and so quickly that they immediately attempted to kill Jesus for blasphemy.
Christ was definitely NOT making a statement indicating that He was any less God than God the Farther, and the Jew knew it.
blactooth - The Bible says +Jesus+ is +God+, if you have seen +Jesus + you have seen +God+, John 14:9, +God+ was born in the flesh as +Jesus+, to Mary +Immaculately/through the +Holy Spirit+, so +He+ could die for the all sin, it is a "Blood Covenant" bought & paid for with the +Divine Blood+ of the +Creator +Jesus who is God+ in the flesh, +God+ always required a "Blood Sacrifice" for sin prior to +Him+ dying on the Cross & conquering "Death, Hell, & the Grave" & redeemed Believers with +His+ own +Divine Blood+
Ultra -- I was trying to make it as simple as possible for those not versed deeply in Scripture. The mystery is far too great to be handled by mere words. The Trinity has to be experienced to even begin to tough the "Otherness" and the closeness of Who God Is!
 June 16, 2015 at 10:10am
Goliath was already dead when David cut his head off. Goliath was not alive at the time, so there is a difference, don’t you think?
This is how you know that they got it right and or correctly.
Notice how long Baal the storm god (global climate change) has been around.... interesting how strong the worship has stayed for thousands of years and is still here in Many different forms. That's one strong Satanic cult, perhaps one of the strongest and oldest.
How do you get that from the article, which clearly says the is no relationship? So now even the Jews admit there was no Abraham or Moses. Man you cult fanatics amaze me:)
Asd, your Baal to global warming accurate analogy. What you see on the way up the same as seen on the way down.
This article talks about how the descendants of Noah started cities and countries that often bear their name to this day.
The sons of Gomer were ‘Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah’ (Genesis 10:3)
Ashkenaz is the Hebrew word for Germany.
Meshech, the name of the next grandson, is the ancient name for Moscow. Moscow is both the capital of Russia, and the region that surrounds the city. To this day, one section, the Meshchera Lowland, still carries the name of Meshech, virtually unchanged by the ages.
Asshur is the Hebrew word for Assyria. Assyria was one of the great ancient empires. Every time the words Assyria or Assyrian appear in the Old Testament, they are translated from the word Asshur.
Really interesting stuff. Alot of the names of these countries or cities still bare the name of the descendants of Noah.
The Chinese language also includes some interesting finds.
Using many examples, the authors show that the inventor(s) of the original Chinese characters knew and believed the account of creation as well as the promise of the Saviour to come.
The pictograph for large boat is made up of the symbols for vessel, eight, and people
The pictograph for to covet is made up of the symbols for woman and two trees.
The pictograph for to create is made up of the symbols for speak dust life and walk.
The pictograph for forbidden or to warn is made up of the symbols two trees and God.
The pictograph for garden is made up of the symbols dust, breath, two persons, and enclosure.
Sounds like the garden of Eden to me.
 June 13, 2015 at 11:46am
Satan told a similar lie to Eve in the garden.
Did that lie turn out well?
 June 13, 2015 at 11:21am
This is an amazing comment string. I have read all of the post’s here and I am amazed at the childish, emotional rant’s against telling the truth to children.
If a child loses a dog or any other pet because it has died, telling him an outright lie will do no good. Just tell the child the truth; your dog has died, he is no longer living and he is gone. I know it is sad but dogs do die and there is nothing we can do about that except replace him – With a New Dog!
Lets go to the pet store and you can pick out a new dog. And on the way we can get some ice cream.
There are those who do not care about their worship being accurate, and then there are those who take pure worship seriously.
And it is not wise to assume someone is of a particular faith without clear evidence of such.
 May 31, 2015 at 12:28pm
Consequences that come our way because of our choices can either be bad or good.
The consequences of choosing to be a follower of Christ will be as Jesus honestly revealed. A true Christian accepts those consequences freely and with complete knowledge. Now, along with those consequences, come so many blessing from our king, and they are too numerous to mention here.
The consequences of choosing a sinful course brings no blessings what-so-ever.
Perfectly stated @Black! I'm tired of the interpretation crowd! Just read the verse!
You dont have to "interpret" a map either, you can "just read it" you only need to interpret it if you actually want to get to your destination.........
"If you want to enter life, keep the commandments"
The only way you can "just read" the Bible is if you can read the texts in their original languages. Otherwise, much of it has already been interpreted, and sometimes poorly.