My wife and I were discussing this yesterday and were reminded that both of us, when we lost our six year old in 1993, had a thought cross our minds that, “We’ll just go to sleep and when we wake up we’ll start the day over again.” We were laughing that we both had the same thought.
We also put milk in the cupboard and other things that were obvious evidence of shock.
What was funny was how normal the thought appeared to be at first blush. We both caught ourselves almost immediately but from going through that event I can see where this poor mother might appear to have lost a cog.
The pain is SO great (I thought my heart was literally going to burst at one point) that I think the emotions and mind sort of shut down for a while. Some, unfortunately, don’t recover while I think most folks eventually come to grips with the new realities. The pain really never goes away but you can learn to come to grips with it.
Now, as to the trolls who appear to take a certain delight in making very offensive remarks – You are to be pitied in that you are so easily able to discard your humanity. Every word you utter (or type) will be brought back to you at some point and you will not be able to hide and you will take responsibility for your cruelties.
May 22, 2015 at 2:54pm
You may not be aware of this. but as 5ezpzez pointed out, using ALL CAPS is online-speak for shouting.
With respect to the content of your message my first response would be to ask you if you actually read and digested what I wrote? If you did then you would understand that I was suggesting a balance between spiritually-related issues and civilly-related issues. And that the two have distinctly different responses – as well they should.
If you are suggesting that in my response I would overlook the facts as admitted you could not be more wrong than had you deliberately attempted to be so. Josh, by admitting his prior behavior, has placed himself in potential legal jeopardy (depending on the laws of the various jurisdictions. And most definitely he has placed himself, and all the others, in financial jeopardy as well. What the various District Attorneys will choose to do is yet to be revealed. I understand TLC has cancelled the show for now but that may be a misunderstanding on my part.
If I hear pain in your response as a sort of knee-jerk reaction to some events in your life, while I wouldn’t really understand, I’d recommend getting help if possible. Not your burden to carry.
If you are just emotionally reacting and, venting, please get a grip and try to be more lucid. You are not adding to the solution given your present response – ignorant or not.
If you are a troll – go away, no one is listening.
 May 22, 2015 at 12:24pm
Violating another human sexually is always bad and hurtful. Sadly, it happens. People should go to jail for this crime.
There IS forgiveness, ONLY after accepting responsibility. If Josh has truly accepted responsibility (as in the life-changing type AKA repentance AKA turning around) then good. But, this does not remove civil penalties, nor should it. Currently, appearances are that Josh Duggar is “facing the music” so to speak. Good, but there will be consequences and the acts never go away. Ever.
Montel appears to be using anger (contrived or real?) to promote a cause or position. Anger as a means of justifying this or that, regardless of the side you are on is always, or almost always, harmful as well. There is a righteous, love-based anger that is good. It usually is more concerned about the victim than itself. And that’s a pretty reliable indicator.
The verse about judging is about condemnation, not determination. Calling someone a scumbag or other forms of vitriol or telling someone they ARE going to Hell are not helpful. Yes, some people WILL go to Hell and yes Josh’s actions definitely fall into the scumbag category. And he will deservedly take his lumps. Piling on gratuitously as it seems happened here makes me think, as others have noted, that something else may be going on. Arrogance, personal pain, [fill in the blank]
I am definitely glad the Lord forgives but we must always take responsibility as well.
BUT NOW JOSH HAS HIS OWN LITTLE ONES TO MOLEST...AND THAT IDIOT WIFE KEEPS CHIRPN ABOUT A BIGGGGGG FAMILY.... SO MORE FOR HIM TO FUCK....FORGIVEN OR NOT......ARE YOU WILLING TO TAKE A CHANCE WITH YOUR OWN LITTLE CHILDREN? REALLY?
May 16, 2015 at 10:28pm
I do not look at wiki and you presenting it shows a lack of spirit
Chicken. You are afraid of using the brain God gave you! You are misusing God’s gift and being an unfaithful servant.
Your humanistic psychology is very soon going to utterly fail you and on that day I pray the scales be removed from your eyes. You have refused correction and sound biblical doctrines
Ha ha ha ha! Please explain “humanistic” to me – and you have to do it without using wikipedia – get it from the spirit man. I’ll wait.
“If you cannot discern Acts 17:11 or all the warning about deception then there is no way I can reach your humanistic m,ind that thinks it knows God”
Just explained that to you in the just-prior message I am doing the same to you by the way. I heard you and now I am searching the scriptures “to see if these things be so.”
You offered to pray for me. THANK YOU!! I’ll take ALL I can get. Good Lord knows I desperately need it.
May 16, 2015 at 10:22pm
Because, if you ARE choosing individual revelation as your FINAL authority, listen closely here… YOU ARE DOING EXACTLY WHAT JOSEPH SMITH DID – whom you call the founder of a cult.
Now, while I do disagree with many of the theological positions the LDS Church holds a) God loves them as much as anyone else – neither more nor less b) Jesus died for them as well, c) individual revelation is always a good thing as long as it comports with scripture.
How do you know what has been revealed to you is actually coming from God?
Without logic and reason you have no way to know such things You are right about the Bereans but that verse you used to justify YOUR position actually proves quite the opposite.
Think about it; What came first? Their searching their scriptures, using logic and reason and then the acceptance that what they had heard from Paul (your “spirit”).. Well, first they heard Paul and then they verified it using THEIR logic and reason.
So, which is it? “Spirit revelation” as the final authority or reason and logic, using documentation as the final authority? Obvious, the second choice.
So, how can you logically use the idea that “spirit revelations” you have had are greater than almost 2000 years of others doing EXACTLY what YOU say should be done while you IGNORE that very same “rule”? You are a mess of self-contradictions friend. Yes, God speaks directly to men and yes, we should verify. But the rule also applies to you as well.
May 16, 2015 at 10:12pm
Or these:Elzevir Textus Receptus (1624) with Morphology,NA28 text,Rahlfs’ Septuagint with Logos Morphology,Septuagint Variants with Logos Morphology,Stephen’s Textus Receptus (1550) with Morphology,The Greek-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear Septuagint,The Greek-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear ,eptuagint (Alternate Texts),The Lexham Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint,The Lexham Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint, Alternate Texts,The New ,estament in the Original Greek: Byzantine Textform 2005,The OpenText.org Syntactically Analyzed Greek New Testament,The OpenText.org Syntactically ,nalyzed Greek New Testament Glossary,UBS 5*,A Grammar of the Old Testament in Greek: According to the Septuagint,An Introduction to the Old Testament in ,reek,An Introduction to the Old Testament in Greek: Letter of Aristeas in Greek,Grammar of Septuagint Greek: Grammar,Grammar of Septuagint Greek: ,elected Readings,The First Bible of the Church: A Plea for the Septuagint,The Septuagint as Christian Scripture: Its Prehistory and the Problem of Its Canon
Or these: Apologetics Study Bible,Scofield Reference Bible
And then we need to ask you about Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek – All three languages that the Bible has been written in.
“I do not look at wiki and you presenting it shows a lack of spirit”
You ARE choosing to be WILLFULLY ignorant. Oh, by the way… That Bible you read? It was translated by men and how do you REALLY know they were led by the Spirit?
May 16, 2015 at 10:09pm
Or these:Apparatus for the Greek New Testament: SBL Edition,The Greek New Testament: SBL Edition (SBL),Brenton LXX (English),Lexham Analytical Lexicon of the ,Septuagint: H.B. Swete Edition,Lexham English Septuagint,Lexham Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint: H.B. Swete Edition,Lexham Syntactic Greek New ,estament and Dataset,The Greek-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear Septuagint: H. B. Swete Edition, Alternate Texts,The Greek-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear ,eptuagint: H.B. Swete Edition,The Lexham Clausal Outlines of the Greek New Testament: SBL Edition,The Lexham English Septuagint: Alternate Texts,The ,exham Syntactic Greek New Testament: Sentence Analysis,The Old Testament in Greek according to the Septuagint,The Old Testament in Greek according to ,he Septuagint (Alternate Texts),The Old Testament in Greek according to the Septuagint (Apparatus for Alternate Texts),The Old Testament in Greek ,ccording to the Septuagint (Apparatus),The New Testament in Greek,The New Testament in the Original Greek,Novum Testamentum Graece: Apparatus Criticus ,3 vols.),The Parallel Aligned Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Texts of Jewish Scripture,The Parallel Aligned Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Texts of Jewish Scripture , Alexandrinus and Theodotion Variants,A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint,An Introduction to the Study of New Testament Greek, vols. 1 & 2,Brenton ,XX (Greek)
May 16, 2015 at 10:06pm
“Logic and reasoning skills are not required to understand scriptures.Having the guidance of the Holy Spirit is and once you have that then logic and reasoning are good but it is human reasoning and logic that gts humans into trouble.”
So, God gives revelation, then men understand, THEN they use logic and reasoning to understand what God revealed? How do they understand without logic and reasoning?
What language? What version of scriptures? How do you know what language and what version or if the version you are using is the one God actually wants man to use? Which one of these is the right one? ESV,Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB),King James Version,King James Version Apocrypha,King James Version: Cambridge Paragraph Bible,LEB,NASB 95,NLT,NRSV,RSV,The Message,The NET Bible (NET) with Notes,American Standard Version,Complete Jewish Bible,Douay-Rheims Bible,Good News Translation,NIrV,NIV 2011,Tanakh 1917,Tyndale Bible,Wycliffe Bible: Early Version,Wycliffe Bible: Later Version,Young’s Literal Translation,Geneva Bible,NCV,NKJV,Tanakh (new), 1901 American Standard and so forth or should you use these: Lexham Hebrew Bible with Morphology,The Hebrew Bible: Andersen-Forbes Analyzed Text,Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia: With Werkgroep Informatica, Vrije ,Universiteit Morphology,Biblia Hebraica transcripta (BHt) (4 vols.),Wörterbuch zum Alten Testament: Hebräisch/Aramäisch-Deutsch und ebräisch/Aramäisch-Englisch
May 16, 2015 at 5:26pm
“You do know that all of the apostles died horrific deaths with the exception of John right? Would you tell them to take a balanced approach? What utter nonsense.
The world hates real Christianity just as it hates Jesus”
I read Foxes Book of Martyrs over 40 years ago and I am aware of the current levels of persecutions going on right now.
I am also aware that Christianity does not cause folks to become irrational. Quite the contrary. And I also believe the American Church, writ large, is pretty much a spiritual stinking pile of poo – in the sense of a decided lack of commitment. But, by saying that I must also say the the American Church is also quite strong and is doing many many good things – some of which cannot be mentioned due to their sensitivity.
One of the problems I am seeing in your behavior is at the end of the day it is still all about YOU. You seem to need to be continually using others to prove to yourself that your positions are right. Otherwise your fabulously demonstrated written examples of stridency would not be so many nor so insistent.
You are running of fear man – You are afraid that if you don’t get your external world “lined up” with your internal needs you are in heap big trouble. God isn’t mad at you and you really do not need to take secret pleasure in your (self inflicted) suffering for Christ.
That’s not how you get your name in the book.
May 16, 2015 at 5:11pm
And just to be absolutely clear..
When I wrote, “Your question is stupid on the face of it. People are NOT groups. Some are and some are not, just like any other grouping of peoples. Just like there will be many in the Roman Catholic, Baptist, Pentacostal, LDS and other groupings who will not be saved.” the context I was thinking of was the Marriage Supper when some were found to be without proper clothing and were cast out.
That is, those who use their religion, theology or [fill in the blank] to justify themselves rather than trusting the finished work of Christ.
So, THERAPTURCOMES, I think it actually might be a bit appropriate to ask whether or not YOU are trying to justify yourself by your single-mindedness about your LDS question. This will not make you righteous but you seem to think that badgering others makes you a “REAL Christian” It does not.
Take careful thought here. You may well be on dangerous ground. Please ask yourself and the Lord about His love and grace and how it applies to this issue.
May 16, 2015 at 5:06pm
“You are ducking my question and I ask it for the third time. Are mormons Christian yes or no?”
Your question is stupid on the face of it. People are NOT groups. Some are and some are not, just like any other grouping of peoples. Just like there will be many in the Roman Catholic, Baptist, Pentacostal, LDS and other groupings who will not be saved.
“By being a REAL Christian” – That’s your assertion. Unless and until you demonstrate with your life the reality of this you are NOT a REAL Christian. Read James again.
Your LEGALISTIC presentations continue to prove you do not yet understand grace. When are you going to realize that these are REAL PEOPLE? Yes, I disagree with many teachings of the LDS faith but my god man that does not allow me to treat them in the inhuman way you discuss them in order to (apparently) prove to yourself that YOU are a REAL Christian!
Will you please stop using the LDS folks to satisfy your theological onanism?
May 16, 2015 at 4:56pm
One other point to make here; Who are YOU or I to judge in that sense? You have NO RIGHT and neither do I. Now, I can, on the other hand, absolutely assert that if you foll into the Romans 10:9 “box” you WILL be saved. I suspect you agree wit this. If so how do YOU know that some members (number/percentage unknown) also fall into this category? You simply can not know all of that information. To presume to do so is a GROSS presumption on your part and that indicates you really haven’t thought this through.
Now, if you were to ask me if I think the teachings of the LDS church follow the Bible I would say they do not. And I would caution my GOOD LDS friends to consider some of the claims made by all sides. My LDS friends trust me so much that a bishop of one of the local wards personally asked me to attend a post ward split breakfast meet-and-greet to announce that Ravi Zacharias had been invited BY THE LDS CHURCH to come and speak at the Tabernacle in January 18, 2014.
You are presenting yourself as a Christian and have NO idea apparently how grotesquely you are doing so. You are, as a Christian who is misrepresenting Christ to the point you epitomize Romans 2:24. The name of Christ is blasphemed because of your behavior.
I am going to do something I have never done before. I am going to publicly state that I am going to pray that God break you, teach you about His grace, bring you to true repentance and remove from you your willfulness. He loves you.
May 16, 2015 at 4:40pm
“I don’t care about tats or sleeveless shirts. I asked a very simple and to the point question
Are mormons Christian yes or no?”
You have not answered my questions regarding the source of your knowledge regarding Christianity. As such you prove yourself to be a fraud. Sort of like showing up at a university and proclaiming you have a PhD and refusing to provide papers. FRAUD
You obviously did not understand the implication of my question regarding the tattoos. The reason is that you don’t have an intimate knowledge of Mormon culture. Your knowledge is fraudulent. FRAUD
You continue to really strike out with your reasoning skill set and you continue to look at people as groups. That is a logical fallacy to presume that if ‘A’ is a member of group 1 then all ‘A’s are members of group one ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies – probably this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition ) In other words, if one presumes one member of the LDS church is going to Hell than all are. Or, if one member of the Roman Catholic Church is going to Hell then all are. Or vice versa. Your logic and reasoning skills stink.
May 16, 2015 at 12:14am
Oh, by the way….?
How many Mormons do you know that are running around in sleeveless shirts and tats on their shoulders?
 May 16, 2015 at 12:11am
“I am a non denominational, fundamentalist, futurist, literalist believer”
Thank you. Now, what area of theology would fall into? More on the Calvinist side or Armineanism side? Who teaches you? Where do you get your training from?Sources please but no need for personal info remember. Do you mean futurist vs preterist?
I am asking because I think you are very confused (maybe lacking balance is a better way to say it) and I’d like to help if I am able. I’ve seen this for 45+ years now. And, by the way, I’ve been online for almost 30 so I can take care of myself there as well if you want to start pulling stunts, OK? There’s no need for that sort of rubbish.
As I mentioned in my other reply I think you are afraid and I’d like to find out “of what?” Remember, perfect love casts out all fear. And Jesus said, “Be not afraid.” and then gave the reason why.
I do NOT doubt your desire, sincerity, commitment or passion WHATSOEVER but, man, your delivery is REALLY LOUSY.It’s a huge cry for help that you probably do not even see.
Lighten up. God gives grace, right?
May 15, 2015 at 11:59pm
“I am making a point by asking that question.”
One point you ARE making is that you cannot keep on intellectual track. One more time… The article is about a lady who placed a box on a hill for the purposes of collecting prayer requests, which she and her friends collect, and then pray for those requests.
About the only other point you are making is that you are a major irritant and a VERY POOR representative of the Lord you claim to serve. Or your command of the English language is just plain lousy. Or, you are looking to cause a fight, promote YOUR cause relentlessly without any regard to those around you. Your motives? Between you & God.
Your theology is WEAK. Or have you forgotten that the Lord knows who are His? And that none of His will be lost? Your intensity causes me to think that you believe you are responsible for doing God’s work. Fair enough. But that you have substituted doing that work in place of having the personal relationship with Him. Your works are your master passion – your god if you will. Upside down pal and digging harder all the time. No joy.
And you have failed to answer my direct questions directly. What faith system (denomination, etc) do you belong to was one. Very simple to answer. The other is what actually IS your point in asking that question? And TO WHOM are you making it? I think you’re trying to make it to yourself because you are driven by FEAR and fear is NOT a fruit of the Spirit friend.
You are afraid to answer me.
May 15, 2015 at 7:16pm
“You said I was causing division so I will ask again, are mormons Christian? It is a straight forwards question”
What church do you attend? Not the actual location but the denomination, sect, whatever.
 May 15, 2015 at 7:10pm
“Are mormons Christian yes or no?”
Take the stick out of your ass, would you?
YOU were the first person to bring the issue of Mormonism up. The article was about a gal who placed a box where others could place prayer requests into who she and others could pray for.
If you do not have the integrity to stick to the topic then please, just go away. You are a complete idiot in the way you are approaching the issue of theological differences between members of the LDS Church, evangelicals (like myself) and so many other religious “tribes”; a word/phrase I like to use to help others face these differences with as much openness as possible. Paul knew when to be discreet: http://biblehub.com/galatians/2-2.htm You might consider this as an alternate approach before you run out of gasoline.
Christian jerks like you make the rest of us look stupid and you defame the name of Christ in so doing. GROW UP!
Folks, as a Christian I am SO SORRY for this knucklehead. Obviously using blunt ax – he is NOT properly representing Christ..
 May 15, 2015 at 4:20pm
“Where is your discernment” In my head, where’s yours?
You make a lot of claims as well. From what I can see you attempting to establish your own righteousness by your attempted precision of understanding. That is, your legal interpretation of scripture. Read Romans again. God rejects human attempts at righteousness. Neither you nor I are able to be good enough even if we cloak our efforts in “scripture-speak”.
You are causing dissension – that is un-Biblical and to be avoided..
And, by the way, you are NOT suffering for Christ. If you are suffering it’s because of your lack of judgement.