Just because you're "forgiven" for the ABSURD rules and their draconian punishments made up by your monstrous deity doesn't mean that many of them AREN'T absurd or grossly excessive in their prescribed punishment in the FIRST place, and it CERTAINLY doesn't vindicate your "god" from coming UP with them in the first place.
It's not "grace" to say "here is a list of arbitrary things I do not want you to do, and if you do ANY of them, even ONCE, no matter how trivial, harmless, or pointless they may seem to a RATIONAL person, you deserve to be MURDERED and then TORTURED for eternity (or have your 'soul' obliterated, depending upon your particular sect's beliefs), BUT if you give me your blind, credulous, unthinking, absolute, and sole belief and devotion for all your life (and the eternal existence that ostensibly follows it), bow, scrape, and prostrate yourself before me, then, and only then, I will prevent you from having to suffer the fate I created for the 'transgressing' the arbitrary list of rules I created." It's more like extortion.
Yes ARCHIE...I know diddums...there's nothing more "monstrous" than "Just as I have loved you, you must also love one another. .... Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself".
Or even more monstrous....
"Now on his way to Jerusalem, Jesus traveled along the border between Samaria and Galilee. 12 As he was going into a village, ten men who had leprosy met him. They stood at a distance 13 and called out in a loud voice, “Jesus, Master, have pity on us!”
14 When he saw them, he said, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And as they went, they were cleansed".
It doesn't get more monstrous than this though ARCHIE...“Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And they divided his garments, and they cast lots for them."....You'll recall that when Jesus says this he's been humiliated, tortured, nailed to a cross to die and humiliated even further by being given vinegar to drink by the same men he's asking his father to forgive while hanging on the cross and saying he thirsts.
How monstrous of Jesus to forgive his persecutors and torturers, while nailed to the cross right ARCHIE? Eccchhhh makes one recoil in disgust at such love for mankind yes?
The new testament should be more like you ARCHIE..spiteful, bitter, bigotted, vindictive, bilefilled, meanspirited and pathetically under-educated..yes?
Hey Arch, I think you got it! God's Perfect Justice is inescapable.
“Just as I have loved you, you must also love one another. …. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself”. Yeah, you can cherry-pick a few good sentiments--let's look at what your god is said to (supposedly) have actually DONE. It doesn't take too far into the bible to see he's a twisted evil bastard.
“...ten men who had leprosy met him...they were cleansed”.
And who MADE leprosy in the first place? Who didn't BOTHER to do anything about it for thousands of years, or for the THOUSANDS of other people who have had it? Hell, by your metric, we are FAR more loving of each other than God--we've cured WAY more than 10 cases of leprosy.
"It doesn’t get...saying he thirsts."
Wow--and who, presumably, set UP the system in which he had to sacrifice himself (or his son, depending upon the nuance's of your sects particular beliefs), TO himself, to create a loophole in rules CREATED by himself? So it's god's fault and PLAN that Jesus suffer like that--did he NEED him to? So there's something he COULDN'T do? Just FORGIVE everyone WITHOUT blood sacrifice? Yeah, I WOULD call that monstrous--I don't need blood sacrifice to forgive someone who transgresses against me, especially not for violating a list of arbitrary rules I made up, does that make me more moral than your god?
Yes, the vindictiveness of god as depicted in the bible is easy to ignore...if you ALREADY have an un-examined belief that god is perfectly good and moral.
Torturing someone for an INFINITE length of time, for FINITE infractions is nether PERFECT nor JUST.
When you're in a hole ARCHIE...why do you keep digging?
I'm not cherry picking champ. Jesus preached love of God and your fellow man, charity and selflessness througout his ministry. You seem quite stunted and woefully under-educated for someone so gleefully asserting your drivel. I may as well be speaking to an empty chair..higher IQ at least.
In the case of the lepers..they begged for help and Jesus helped them. That's "monstrous" to you is it? How many people have you helped that begged for help from you champ? As a self professed "RADICAL" (your emphasis) you seek disorder, anarchy and to sow discontent. You don't help anyone clownshoes. You hurt them.
I guarantee you ARCHIE my little lefty troll friend..sorry "RADICAL" (your emphasis) friend..that if you endured what Christ endured during his passion you'd have been crying, cursing and begging like the cur you are rather than forgiving your persecutors.
By the way God..merely allows man to be man. Man..like your fellow "RADICALS" (your emphasis) and humanists who have such a sterling record of hundreds of millions of deaths and incarcerations. between them..Stalin's Russia, Khmer Rouge, Castro's Cuba, Mao's China (hey..don't forget those gulags even today), Hitler's Germany..the list goes on. Your humanists and "RADICALS" (your emphasis) really know how to be benefactors don't they little guy? You're an idiot.
Why is punishing (let alone TORTURING) someone FOREVER, for finite infractions wrong?
Umm, reciprocity? Proportionality? The fact that all wrongs AREN'T alike (unlike the simplistic treatment the bible gives moral wrongs), and we KNOW it, and we structure our society accordingly, and we view as EVIL the societies and individuals that DON'T. Yet for some ODD reason, you theists switch of your BASIC common sense, your uniquely human powers of reasoning, when it comes to this deity that you claim exists that you can never seem to furnish any of the things that EXTANT things tend to have (like EFFECTS of their existing). You start apologizing and making excuses for all the problems, inconsistencies, and contradictions between the claims about this being and the depiction of it in your holy texts, bending over backwards to justify and explain away what seem obvious and gross character flaws, when if such a being DID exist, one would THINK it would be the LAST being in the universe for which this would be necessary (or at the VERY least, that it could cause information to be available to you to allow you to do a MUCH more persuasive and plausible explanation)--all to avoid confronting the simple possibility that you may, in fact, be incorrect in your belief about what is and is not true on this subject.
Really, understanding why disproportionate punishment is wrong isn't that hard--hell, we have an AMENDMENT against it!
The Third Archon,
For the sons of Judah have done what is bad in my eyes,’ is the utterance of Jehovah. ‘They have set their disgusting things in the house upon which my name has been called, in order to defile it.31And they have built the high places of To′pheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hin′nom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.’ (Jeremiah 7:30-31)
Disobedient people, those opposing our righteous God, are the ones who invented the idea of burning - resulting in death, not God.
Humans brought evil into the world, not God. He is the judge. Of course you are concerned. You are a sinner and you know what's coming.
It isn't just about punishment. There is a reward of you have faith in the promise that a reward will be given to all who are willing to humble themselves and have faith in Jesus Christ.
As for eternal punishment, that's merely a lifestyle choice. Good luck with yours, I'm sure you will need it.
So, am I to understand that you are asserting that your deity DIDN'T, according to your...version of events of history...design humans in such a way that we could die, in short made "death" as we know it? Am I to also understand that according to you, the god of Christianity DIDN'T also create hell, along with all the unpleasantness supposedly attributed to it? Because if SO, then WHO DID pray tell? While we are on the subject, is your god ALSO not the one who made it possible for humans to feel pain in designing them, or to get sick? And are you asserting that he COULDN'T have designed us differently had he wanted to? (because that would be very sad for an omnipotent being considering WE, humans, could do BOTH of those in theory--we lack only the technology in the status quo; and technically, we CAN do SOMETHING about both of those in the status quo, we just haven't yet perfected our ability to completely eliminate either if we so chose). In short, are you asserting a problem of god's will or capacity, or are you saying that there are things which exist which god DID NOT in fact make. Which, even IF that were what you were asserting (and I believe you'd be butting heads with many interpretations of Christian theology), it then begs the question why an omnipotent god would allow it to CONTINUE unless, again, that god lacked either the WILL to change it, or the ABILITY to change it. So you see the problem with your theodicy?
Hey Third, you shouldn't be lashing out so vehemently at the Bible when you are so completely ignorant of what it teaches. Grab a MacArthur study Bible and get back with us after you've boned up a little. I'm embarrassed for you.
Or you could look here for some answers.. http://www.gotquestions.org/faith.html
@TheThirdRulerOfIgnorance You don't know squat. You can't understand those things which are spiritual, because such things have not been taught to you by the Holy Spirit. You'll never know such things, and you'll forever live in darkness. The Holy Author of the Sacred Scriptures has not revealed these things to you. You have eyes that see not, and ears that hear not. Your father is the Devil, he was a liar from the beginning, and you will follow him. Your opinion doesn't matter one iota to me. You're full of ignorance and darkness. Your self righteousness and haughtiness will destroy you one day. You provoke God and take pride in your rebellious nature. There's no point in reasoning with you, as there is no good benefit in conversing with children of darkness.
LOL--TWO posts in a row where you do nothing substantive but a series of ad hominem attacks? Wow, you must REALLY be running out of rationalizations.
Hey atheists ! Your ignorance is great. You know not what you do and certainly have no idea the extent your speech reveals the foolishness and the evil in your hearts. Be careful, there comes a point where The Lord will allow your hearts to become hardened with evil such that the consequences of your evil yields your destruction! Judgement is The Lord's! A Holy, Righteous, and Good God cannot allow evil to persist. Whether He uses supernatural means (as Pharaoh discovered), or the Babylonians as the Jews learned is really irrelevant. It is only right that evil is destroyed. Being God, I would suspect that He and He alone can judge who and what is evil. Anything that is not of God and is contrary to His Word would be evil. If you are not of God (or covered by the blood of His Son) you are at risk! Fear of The Lord is the beginning of Wisdom. Repent of your evil behavior and pray for His mercy! This is His command.
Oh you poor baby. When we point out the hypocrisy in your comments you feign personal attacks.
Fact is, you're pride is what is keeping you from humbling yourself before your Lord and God, and repenting of your sin.
Satan had the same problem. Pride is our worst enemy.
Jesus preached a LOT things, some of it good ("Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen." John 4:20 NIV), and some of it, not so good ("Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." Ephesians 6:5 NIV, or Mark 7:24-30 where Jesus is racist towards a Greek, even though there's no APPARENT reason why her ethnicity somehow makes here less valuable as a human than a Hebrew, or why Jesus is somehow limited in his resources to help the needy; TRUE, he does eventually exorcise her daughter--AFTER, and BECAUSE, she debases herself and basically admits accepting second-class humanity). The point is, is that when you say a bunch of contradictory things, odds are SOME of it is bound to be good advice. And taken as a whole, the bible isn't really all that exceptional from a philosophical perspective--some good moral advice, a LOT of bad moral advice (or at least, a lot of it that's too categorical), and NOTHING like what one would EXPECT if it were influenced/inspired by an omniscient omnipotent benevolent god (which we would EXPECT to have to display a timeless morality, making insightful moral judgments independent of the culture and time in which it emerged).
@TheThirdCrybaby Jesus proclaimed that he was here to preach the Kingdom of Heaven to his own people "first". His own people rejected him by large, wherefore he sent his apostles to preach the Kingdom of Heaven to the Gentiles. Jesus preached many parables on that. Like the parable of the feast wherein the home owner sends his servant to gather friends and family, and none show up, so then he sends him to bring in strangers and other people in the streets. You won't understand this though. The New Testament does not use the word "slave" but "servant". "Slave" is a huge mistranslation by liberal modern translations. I will never be a slave of Christ, I am a free man and obedient servant.
"All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."
"The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret."
"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."
"And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."
Archie. Just a word of caution with your brazen blaspheme, you are dancing close to a line of which there is no forgiveness. Just be warned, I too was an unbeliever turned devoted disciple. Even though he is gracious and forgiving there is one thing not forgivable and you are dancing close to it.
Sleazy- you're back. It's been a while.
@ DLV...I am my friend. Took a break for a while doing much reading and what not. Will comment from time to time on various topics and put in my 2 cents for what its worth. Not much changed here on the blaze except for the names. Arguments still about the same though. Getting ready to start teaching a new class starting tomorrow which has required much preparation. You doing well I hope?
January 9, 2013 at 11:07pm
The video seemed a little dark.
January 9, 2013 at 11:05pm
My wife’s friend came on a hard time, so I loaned her $50… When I saw her a week later she had a new tattoo… When she showed it to us I ask her how much it cost… She said $50… So I said that I assume that she has the money she borrowed from me then… Her responce was no, that she had not been paid yet… So basically she took my money and got a tattoo with it instead of paying her overdue bills…. Same thing this country is doing.
Almost... Except the country isn't taking $50 from "you" for the tattoo, "she" (the country) is taking $50 from you to pay the bills. The money for the tattoo, she would claim, was from her writing a check for $50 and depositing it back into the same bank account and claiming it paid for it with the $50 it just deposited.
If you can not win the attack, then dont atack… Dont complain that your rockets are not big enough to do damage when you are the one poking a stick at your enemy…. Israel could turn you to glass if they so wished, but they hold back because they do not want war.
November 19, 2012 at 10:03am
Lowe’s made money because they took Spiff away from its sales peope. I for one took a $13,000.00 per year pay cut.
nah, it is not over. rep has control of congress, they just need to work together and hold obama to the fire esp on Libya, truth will come out and punishment will occur. But we need to bring this country together, we have no choice (now).
You are right; life goes on. Obama's win is not the end of the world.
This is what happens when you count your chicks before they hatch.
Never underestimate the power of large groups of stupid people.
This win had little to do with Obama's achievements and everything to do with the fact that a huge majority of Americans want to ride the gravy train. They don't care about freedom; they just want free things. It is really shameful, but shouldn't discourage anyone from standing up for their principles.
I was really depressed...then realized this could be that sixth trump blowing and though it might look really ugly, that is just the serpents face.....God's will is done again. I believe its on. gonna be bumpy ride.
October 30, 2012 at 3:11pm
And those comment are exactllywhy he should have ran for President.
October 30, 2012 at 3:02pm
Doesnt PD-51 cover this? Obama doesnt need Congretional approval, the law is already in place.
October 30, 2012 at 12:32am
Is it just me or does the water flowing over the sides look airbrushed white?
October 16, 2012 at 2:53pm
f. u. n.
October 15, 2012 at 7:28pm
$129 for Jeans…. Should be $40 – $50
$30 for T-Shirt…. Should be $10 – $15
You wonder why nothing is made here; these jeans cost almost 300% more than the 501s at JC Penney ($45). Even if you say that the 501s will not last as long, do you realy think that they will last 300% longer? Not likely. Even if they did; lets say the 501s last for 3 years, are you seriously saying that you would wear the same jeans for 9 years? Ya right…. And for that matter, t-shirts are $8 at Old Navy.
June 26, 2012 at 9:48am
Why is it that at the end of a multi colored rainbow, that it turns brown??