Comedian Joe Rogan dismantled arguments defending many of the policies advocated by transgender activists in an interview with fellow comedian Adam Conover.
Conover, who is known for his show "Adam Ruins Everything," defends many transgender positions, while Rogan politely but forcefully pointed out the internal inconsistencies.
"There's no reason to give kids hormones," argued Rogan. "And there's no reason to decide before a person's frontal lobe is completely fully developed, which doesn't even take place until they're 25.
"People don't know who they are, a 7-year-old," he continued, "people don't even give their 7 year-old phones, you don't let them vote, you're gonna let them decide what sex they're gonna be for the rest of their life?"
Conover gave the example of a friend of his who thought it was humane to respect the decision of their young boy to identify as a girl.
"But if that's who they are," asked Rogan, "if they think they are a girl, why do you have to give them hormones to make them more of a girl?"
Conover asked him to expand on the question.
"It's a simple question," Rogan responded. "If you say that the child thinks it's a girl, so you're gonna give the child hormones, if the child thinks it's a girl, let it be a girl. Why are you adding hormones?
"If you're shooting hormones into a child," he explained, "and you're affecting the child's development, and you're saying that's not a choice, that's nonsense, of course it's a choice. You're choosing to chemically change this child's body."
Rogan cited a study that showed that "gender affirmation" surgery led to "considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behavior, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population."
Conover responded by pointing to lower rates of gender dysphoria and improved sexual relationships after the transgender surgeries.
"Right, before they killed themselves, everything is awesome?!" Rogan responded.
Here's the video of Rogan's debate:
Joe Rogan DEYSTROYS Adam Conover in Trans-Children Hormone Debate!! www.youtube.com
"My entire concern is that you're making decisions for children," said Rogan, "and that this is a completely new thing with no historical precedent, we've never done this before."
"When you're stepping in to a developing baby that's only been alive for six years, and you're shooting chemicals into its body to change the way it develops, show me the research!" he demanded forcefully later in the interview.
"Show me the decades of peer-reviewed studies on one of the most important things that we know of, the development of a human being!" Rogan concluded.
What about trans women in sports?
Rogan also sharply disagreed with Conover about the hot button issue of trans women in sports. Conover defended the practice of allowing athletes who were born male to participate in female sports by saying, "I think when we're talking about people, we should always try to include more people, not less.... if you're a double amputee and you can make your way into the olympics, and you can make a plausible case, I think we should entertain that notion....
"As far as trans athletes go, we could sit here and talk for three hours about, like, all the different ways that hormones might affect your body and your might not affect your body, and I'm not an expert on that... but, a sport with trans athletes who are competing with their gender, right? That is a sporting world that I'm more interested in. I know it's gonna be really complicated and messy... but I hope that's the world that we move forward to."
Rogan strongly disagreed, saying that "There's a reason we make the distinction to have male athletics versus female athletics. The reason is that men have a physiological advantage over women. So in most physical sports we do not have males compete with females. The question becomes when someone who is born male transitions to female, do those physiological advantages apply, and what is the evidence?
"Well, the evidence in competition seems to be that it does apply... males that transition to females have a significant advantage and they're breaking world records. So if you're a woman and you're a natural woman and you're not taking any sort of hormones or steroids or performance enhancing drugs, you're doing your very best to compete and you're at the top of the heap, but then someone comes along that was a man for 30 years, and decides that they're going to be a woman — and this has happened — and literally transitioned a few months ago and competes as a woman and destroys records and dominates you in that sport, that's bulls**t. And that's not competing on a level playing field."
Rogan emphatically declared, "It's not fair. It's as much cheating as taking steroids when the other person doesn't, or taking performance enhancing drugs when the other person doesn't. Maybe even more so, because there's a bunch of advantages in terms of reaction times that males enjoy. There's a significant difference in reaction times between males — even untrained males versus female professional athletes."